Gerry DiNardo - former college football head coach and current analyst for Big 10 Network

Summary

Dan Bernstein Unfiltered

Episode: Gerry DiNardo – Reflection & Realities of Modern College Football

Host: Dan Bernstein (B)
Guest: Gerry DiNardo (C), former college football head coach, current Big Ten Network analyst
Date: December 24, 2025

---

Overview

Dan Bernstein is joined by Gerry DiNardo for a candid, wide-ranging discussion on the seismic changes in college football—from the evolution of the transfer portal and NIL (Name, Image, Likeness), to deep program dynamics at institutions like Indiana, LSU, Vanderbilt, and Notre Dame. DiNardo pulls from personal experiences, offers perspective on the enduring “haves and have-nots” divide, shares war stories about program politics, and debates the future of the game’s structure, competitive balance, and coach-player relationships.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Indiana Football’s Transformation

[01:48 – 06:28]

• Bernstein opens by marveling at Indiana’s sudden prominence; DiNardo attributes the program’s resurgence to both people (notably Coach Kurt Signetti and AD Scott Dolson) and systemic changes like the transfer portal.
  • “It’s a perfect storm in favor of Indiana. The only thing we don’t know is what impact the James Madison guys made. That only happens once.” (DiNardo, 03:34)
• DiNardo cautions that importing a previous roster (as Signetti did from James Madison) is a one-off advantage.

Coaching: Culture vs. Development

[04:17 – 06:28]

• Bernstein and DiNardo discuss the modern coach’s dual imperative: instilling culture and delivering tactical/player development.
• DiNardo describes Signetti as balanced but emphasizes the advantage of context—especially program support and timing.

Programs & Politics: Louisiana Stories

[06:28 – 12:18]

• DiNardo shares insider stories about LSU where politicians, including the governor, played direct roles in athletic decisions—a reality Bernstein notes even “conspiracy theorists would dream of.”
  • “[The Governor] says to me, ‘Do you like your athletic director? … You sign your contract and then we’ll let Joe continue…’” (DiNardo, 08:05)
  • On inviting the Governor to see recruiting and poverty firsthand: “That didn’t go over all that well.” (08:00)

Brian Kelly’s Fit (or Lack Thereof) at LSU

[10:02 – 11:56]

• DiNardo questions Kelly’s fit and future motivation, highlighting a more relaxed approach and speculation he’s content to retire on his earnings.
  • “I don’t think he’s interested in coaching anymore…. Not sure a lot of people would hire him.” (10:52)

Vanderbilt, Quarterbacks, & Program Ceilings

[12:18 – 16:45]

• Both discuss Vanderbilt’s surprising year, crediting coach Clark Lea and a standout quarterback, but DiNardo notes the program remains a tough place to win.
• DiNardo underscores the unchanging “haves and have-nots” divide, asserting no true have-not has ever sustainably become a “have,” citing examples from his career since 1971.
  • “It’s always been the haves and it’s always been the have-nots.” (15:18)
  • “You’d be hard pressed to tell me… a have-not that is now a have.” (15:44)

Roster Management, The Portal, and NIL

[14:07 – 23:24]

• They scrutinize the transfer portal’s effect, potential for more parity, and persistent depth and resource issues—particularly concerning quarterbacks at “middle class” programs.
  • “If I have nowadays gets a quarterback that gets them in the [playoff]…. But they don’t have that quarterback the next year. You know, a have will always have another quarterback. You get fired if you’re a have and don’t have a second team quarterback.” (20:29)

Systemic Issues: Playoff Selection, The Committee, & Money

[25:11 – 34:31]

• DiNardo sharply criticizes the playoff selection process (“billion-dollar business run by volunteers”), advocates for a full-time, paid committee of experts, and opposes automatic bids—just “rank the teams 1 to 12.”
  • “The only billion-dollar business in America that’s run by volunteers.” (26:11)
  • “You rank the teams 1 to 12 and they’re the best teams. It doesn’t matter how many from a conference, there’s no automatic qualifiers.” (27:12)
• Bernstein and DiNardo discuss Notre Dame’s independence, media deals, and what might push them into a conference.

The Economics of Winning

[32:03 – 34:31]

• DiNardo points to the financial realities (“Ohio State lost $168 million last year”) and questions how, even with equal TV money, some schools are willing to spend far more than others to chase championships.

X’s and O’s: The Modern Game, Rules, and Quarterback Development

[35:07 – 39:13]

• They note the convergence of college and NFL schemes, rise of the RPO, and how the “cottage industry” of private quarterback instructors is upending the traditional coach-player dynamic.
  • DiNardo surprised by how some major programs now allow private QB coaches at practice: “That was a head scratcher. I didn’t think we had gotten that far.” (38:07)

The Coach-Player Relationship & Athlete Empowerment

[41:50 – 46:54]

• Bernstein asks if the increasingly transactional environment has destroyed true coaching relationships. DiNardo argues the opposite—
  • “Those relationships right now are better than they’ve ever been…. The maturity level of the players and the openness of the coaches to become more mentorish…” (41:50 - 43:54)
  • “There’s basically 50 coaches now on every major college football staff. That’s part of the relationship… the number of coaches, the number of times that they spend with these guys has broken all barriers in a good way.” (43:55)

Student-Athletes, Transfers, and Parity

[45:47 – 48:40]

• DiNardo notes non-athletes actually transfer at higher rates than athletes and supports player freedom. He also brings up historical NCAA injustices like the Pell Grant diversion and rules limiting NFL entry, underlining how much modern reforms are overdue.
  • “A lot of what’s going on now is making up for many years of unfair treatment by the NCAA…” (48:29)

The Demise of the Bowl System

[48:40 – 51:05]

• They predict the collapse of lesser bowl games and reflect on Notre Dame’s unique historical relationship with non-title bowls, rooted in player decisions and institutional philosophy.
  • “There’s really no benefit for the players. You know, it’s an extra game…” (49:32)

---

Memorable Quotes

• DiNardo on Indiana’s surge:
  “It’s a perfect storm in favor of Indiana. The only thing we don’t know is what impact the James Madison guys made, right? Because that only happens once.” (03:34)
• On the college football playoff system:
  “It’s the only billion dollar business in America that is run by volunteers.” (26:11)
• On NIL and the ‘have/have-not’ divide:
  “It’s always been a have and have nots business. Once in a while someone will creep up and play like a have. But over the long period of time, it’s always been haves and have nots.” (15:18)
• Bernstein on modern player experience:
  “It may be that even though they’re going to more colleges in four years or five years, the actual experience may end up being more valuable to them than ever.” (45:47)
• DiNardo on coach-player relationships:
  “The maturity level of the players and the openness of the coaches to become more mentorish than discipline … has broken all barriers in a good way.” (44:16)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:48–06:28| Indiana’s rise and the people vs. portal debate | | 06:28–12:18| Political realities and wild stories from LSU and beyond | | 12:18–16:45| Vanderbilt, the importance of quarterbacks, and the limits for "have-not" programs | | 14:07–23:24| Transfer portal’s impact, NIL, and roster-building at non-elite schools| | 25:11–34:31| Playoff structure, selection committee insight, & Notre Dame’s future | | 35:07–39:13| The modern game: X’s and O’s, RPO, and QB development industry | | 41:50–46:54| Coach-player relationships in a transactional era | | 48:40–51:05| The future (and demise) of the bowl system |

---

Tone & Style

The conversation is frank, energetic, and reflective, marked by DiNardo’s forthrightness and Bernstein’s pointed curiosity. Both men balance nostalgia with a clear-eyed critique of current structural realities, making this more than just a reminiscence—it's a sharp, unfiltered diagnosis of college football’s challenges and future.

---

For New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for any college football follower interested in the sport’s evolution, the economics and politics undergirding it, and the lived experience of those inside the game. DiNardo’s stories, opinions, and willingness to name names offer a revealing (and often entertaining) look behind the curtain.

Transcript

[A]

With savings over $390 this shopping season. VRBO helps you swap gift wrap time for quality time with those you love most. From snow on the roof to sand between your toes. We have all the vacation rental options covered. Go to VRBO now and book a last minute week long stay. Save over $390 this holiday season and book your next vacation rental home on VRBO. Average savings $396 select homes only Dan.

[B]

Bernstein Unfiltered Unfiltered on 312 Sports Dan Bernstein Unfiltered is brought to you in partnership with my bookie and December doesn't have to be the most expensive month of the year. If you're betting with my bookie. 12 Days of Christmas is here Daily offers dropping back to back across sports and casino bet and gets profit boosts, free spins, surprise drops for social users, telegram users. December is absolutely packed. NFL college hoops and not to mention whatever is left of bowl season that is Playoffs and non playoffs. All opportunities for you to enjoy and wagertain one's self. So go to my bookie, use our code dbu. Punch that in when you register and when you make your deposit then your first bet is covered up to $500. And if you go big and you miss on that first one, you've got a bet back bonus token. You can run it back. Bet on anything, anywhere, anytime, only with my Bookie. The familiar face who is kind enough to be our guest today is that of Jerry DiNardo of Big Ten Network and a longtime contributor to the Boars and Bernstein Show. Great to see you again, Jerry. How are you?

[C]

Great to see you Dan. It's been way too long. I know.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

I agree. It's great to see. And I was thinking about just how many direct connections you have throughout your career with so many programs and places that are central to a lot of the larger issues that we're talking about right now in college football and even how that affects professional football. A lot of what's going on, the very, the very essence of the developmental system of the game at its highest levels is changing very quickly before our eyes. Want to start with what is happening in Indiana. Did you ever think that that program at any time you were in Bloomington or beyond was capable of doing what it's doing now?

[C]

No. I could never see this happening. And to me the changes is about people. Everybody wants to say why this has happened. The portal is certainly part of it. But I maintain this, that if, if Coach Signetti would have come from Alabama to Indiana, he'd have been a great coach. He didn't have to do what he had done. If Scott was the AD when Coach Signetti got to Indiana, that would make that partnership worth it. And to me, that's what this is all about. Now, him coming from James Madison, certainly part of it, to Transfer Portal, certainly part of it. But the support behind him is like it's never been before at Indiana. But at the end of the day, you know, it's about people. It's about. It's about Kurt Signetti. It's about him being a great coach. I mean, you could support a program all you want, but if you don't have the right coach, it's. It's not going to happen. So I would say this, Dan. It's a perfect storm in favor of Indiana. The only thing we don't know is what impact the James Madison guys made, Right? Because that only happens once. You only get to bring a previous roster with you one time. Now, are they going to win enough games where they're going to sign players that would have never thought about going to Indiana if it wasn't for the James Madison crew? You know, that's a difference. That's. That's a different question. We don't know yet.

[B]

Well, and that's why the question that I have when it comes to some of these. These unquestionably successful coaches in this postmodern college football landscape, we can call it, for lack of a better term, there's the soft stuff. There is the culture building on that side. There is the. The idea of the good fit and being able to understand all of the politics and be able to be a builder of culture and motivator. And then there is the developmental tactical side. Is Signetti equally good at both, or can you figure out where he is on that continuum?

[C]

I think he's equally good at both. Again, though, the one question is how much did JMU guys change that program? Because that is the one thing that's not going to happen again. It's going to happen again with other coaches, because now everybody thinks that's the answer. I would say cautiously move towards that being the answer, because again, Frank Signetti was his dad. Kurt Signetti came from James Madison Indiana, but again, if he came from Alabama as an assistant, it would be the same result, in my opinion. Scott Dolphinson is the athletic director. He's paying the coaches there some of the highest salaries there's been. I'll tell you a story how it's changed. We were going out to play Oregon when I was there. And as a kind of a fun thing, I got speakers. Were ducks quacking the entire practice, right. Is the crowd noise. And assistant AD came up to me and said, coach, who's going to pay for the speakers? I said, I don't know. Payroll deduction, take it out of my check. So that might have been like a $150 item. And now we see there we see their salary. So that's changed for sure. But again, let's see how the JMU guys. I think he's a great coach. I have nothing bad to say about him. I'm all bored. I think he's done a great job.

[B]

As we run down the list here, I've been watching what has happened at LSU this whole year has been. I can't take my eyes off the politics. Small P and large P. The governor of the state of Louisiana injected himself into this. As everything is going on. Jeff Landry is basically fired. The athletic director without. I don't know if he meant to or not. And I think you've talked about this before. I think you've talked about, like, being on a governor's plane or being there is. If we've ever pretended that football somehow isn't this important, they. Down there, they don't care. They will show you exactly at every level of state business how important it is. So I imagine you're just sitting back smiling at all of the machinations. I mean, down to Ed Orgeron. He's making the lecture circuit now, telling the story about. Well, they told me they won't fire me and give me $17 million. I said, you tell me which door you want me to walk out of and I'll walk right out of it. And there's just the characters down there. There's just, there's. I know you've experienced it firsthand, but what were your feelings watching not just the end of the Brian Kelly era, but then and all the craziness that ensued?

[C]

I mean, I obviously wasn't surprised about the craziness. I mean, I had my moments with the governors. Edwards, when I first got the job before he had to do a little time, he certainly was.

[B]

Well, it happens in Illinois. We know that that happens. It just happens.

[C]

Then my athletic director, Joe Dean, who hired me, who I loved, and he was a great athletic director. His contract was up and we were rocking and rolling at this time, we had won three straight bowl games. They had never done that before. And so I get summoned to the governor's office for Breakfast and Joe Dean, myself, it's the president of the university, Dr. Copping, and Chief of staff of the governor. And we're sitting around the table at the governor's mansion, and we kind of finished breakfast and everybody gets up and leaves except for me and the governor. The ghati takes me into the kitchen and he says, do you like your athletic back? That he's up for renewal? I was up for renewal as well, but I hadn't decided what I was going to do. I was going to sign it, obviously, but every T wasn't crossing every. I wasn't done. So he says to me, do you like him? I said, yeah, I think Joe's great. He says, okay, you sign your contract and then we'll sign. We'll let Joe continue to be the athletic director. With that, I walk out of the kitchen. Now no one's in there. I go outside and Dr. Copping, the President of the university, he's waiting for me. I get in the car, I drive with him, and he says, okay, here's what's going to happen. You're going to continue to be a coach. Joe will be the athletic director for a little while longer, and then we'll move you into the athletic director's position. I mean, crazy, but I mean, that's all part of it. That's all part of it. And one thing then is when I'm in the kitchen with the governor, I say, governor, I'd love to take you on the road recruiting with me. And he said, well, I'd love to talk to the prospects. And I said, no, no, that's not, that's not why I want you to come. I want you to see how some of your citizens in this state are living, because I don't know that you're aware of the poverty and so on and so forth. That, that didn't go over all that.

[B]

All that well, I can imagine. But that is. That's amazing that it got like. That's the stuff that even the conspiracy theorists on message boards would dream of. And then you say stuff like that actually happened. Unbelievable. So is. Is Brian Kelly able to find an actual fit, do you think? I know you loved talking about sort of the nebulousness of the college football coaching fit. And it didn't. It never seemed right down there. It just never seemed. And we know the. With the put on accent and everything that he did, and now that he's. He's flamed out and he's got enough of his money, I'm wondering what's next it can his career be resurrected? Is there a place that's going to be right for him?

[C]

I'm not sure he wants to continue. You know, first of all, they say he played like 300 rounds of golf when he was the head coach at lsu. He also was, was not famous, but some of my friends, his motto was, I'm the last one in and the first one out, meaning in the office. I think we all know how coaches grind, right? You're in at 5 in the morning, you leave at 10. He was proud of the fact that he was the last one in, first one out. And so now he's got enough money, obviously to last him several lifetimes. I don't think he's interested in coaching anymore. I'm not, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure a lot of people would hire him. I don't know. I mean, we'll have to wait and see.

[B]

It sounds a little bit like Steve Spurrier to me, who for, for a long time was very clear about, hey, look, I love golf, I'm going to play golf, I'm not ashamed of it. You're going to see my clubs, you're going to see me in golf gear coming and going. And when it was, when it was Miller time for him around 5 o', clock, he just, he was done coaching for that day and that even went into the NFL.

[C]

Dan, the greatest story about Steve in relation to what you're saying is he was asked one day after practice, coach, why don't you stay after and watch the practice tape like most coaches? He said, because I was there. He was perfect. He was fun. He was a fun guy.

[B]

He was. And always one of the nicest to student journalists. He bent over backwards to take care of student journalists and treated us just like we were part of the beat media there and made sure we had seats and everything. And there were his counterpart on the basketball side wasn't exactly the same way when he was at Duke. I can certainly say that another one of your former schools is in the spotlight. Look what Vanderbilt did, you know, who knew all of a sudden that they were going to find this, this diminutive gamer of a quarterback and ride that as far as it went. And I really liked Mark Lee's response to not making the playoff. And he said we didn't win enough games. He said that's how we're. Had we won more games, we probably would have been there and we have to take some kind of accountability for that. And I just thought he was the grown up as a lot of people were talking about how it all went down.

[C]

Yeah, he's done a terrific job. Again, it's people, right? In this case it's a former alum who hopefully won't leave. It's a tough place to win. It's still a tough place to win. But if they didn't have the quarterback, I don't know that obviously they would have that kind of success. So they're going to play nine conference games now so that, you know, that makes it harder for the places that haven't had the history like Alabama and the others. So I think Clark's a great coach. We're just going to have to wait and see. The quarterback made all the difference in that program. Plus his schedule I think was pretty favorable. But you know, I watched him coach when he was at Nerd and for Brian Kelly as the defensive coordinator, I was always impressed with him. And every time I see him doing something in the media, it's always impressive, honest and certainly forthcoming.

[B]

And I'm waiting to see for a school like that, for these second level schools or third level schools in the mega conferences, what the portal is going to allow them to do. What NIL will allow them to do, where instead of the very top being four deep, maybe they're three deep, maybe they're too deep. What's the secret sauce if you were at a place like Vanderbilt right now in finding the right recruits and the right mix of guys who stay or are unhappy elsewhere to be able to have a spot there and be able to perform at their best there?

[C]

Well, I mean, I don't think things have changed drastically. You know, when I was there, you know, there was an admissions issue as well. Right. Which, which there should be. And we formed a community of faculty, people. And to look beyond the test scores, I'll give you an example. We recruited someone out of East Chicago High school that was 50% either absent or late for class every day. Every day. And our assistant coach, you went in that school, we had to do more with guidance counselors, say, than I had to do at other places. And we found on his record he had never been late and never missed a day of class at a school that was 50% absent or late.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And when admission saw that and he was getting good grades, but his test scores were in Vanderbilt, good. I mean, he had a low test score. And when they saw that, when we pointed out that this is extraordinary, they let him in and he became a four year starter for us. So there's an academic piece there. That just means that, you know, you have to be aware of it. You don't want to put one of your players in a situation that is really frustrating for him academically. So I'm sure Coach Leah knows. I mean, he went to school. He knows more about it than I do. I do think this though, Dan, and this portal stuff may make me wrong. This is a has and have not business. It's always been the haves and it's always been a have nots. And once in a while someone will creep up and play like I have. But over the long period of time, it's always been have and have nots. And you'd be hard pressed to tell me so. My first experience in College football is 1971. So you, you'd be hard I. And I'd be hard pressed too, because I don't think it happens from 1971 to now. Has there been a school that was a have not and is a have? There's haves that are now have nots.

[B]

Right. Like I would say, especially around that time, you know, the, the hegemony of Nebraska at that time was, you know, that that was a titan that now has been sort of pushed down into the next democratized tier. There are some, I can name any number of schools that aren't what they were. But no, I don't think it's happened in basketball. You know, we saw it happen with Gonzaga. Gonzaga went from, from the cut to a massive producer of NBA talent. So we've definitely seen that happen in basketball. But no, I don't think that's why I asked the question I did about Indiana, where considering the powerful forces at work and the built in alignments and the television money that you now have as your base level, is that enough to do it? When you do have the conferences allowing you to operate automatically at a different level than maybe you to want work financially?

[C]

Yeah, but still the halves are always going to have more resources. Right? Now, again, Indiana is an extraordinary. We don't know if it's an exception yet, but what they've done is extraordinary. Now if this continues, they're going to be an extraordinary exception. But you know, we don't know yet. For a couple times people would argue against me about Kansas State. Kansas State, you know, before. What's the old coach's name before.

[B]

Was it Bill Snyder?

[C]

No, sorry, before Bill Snyder got there. But what, but what? Kansas State hasn't risen to a level that they're a half. When I talk about halves, I'm talking About the scs, the Michigan's, the Ohio.

[B]

States.

[C]

Penn State, you know those big brand names because you can't outbid them. You know, if, if, if someone pays Rice underwood at Michigan 2 million to go to their school, Michigan just paying 3 million. So the money gets neutralized. The money gets neutralized. And at the end of the day, the bigger the poker game, the people that have less chips are going to wind up getting out of the game. And so you know, these teams that are making a move like Indiana, we still have to see how sustainable it is.

[B]

But if the money, but is it money? When you say have, have what.

[C]

Plays for a championship? I have is a, have is someone that's playing for a championship at least once when you're there for four years. That's what I would call a half.

[B]

Okay, so if you were the athletic director of Illinois, how do you figure out what you are and then how do you sell what you are reasonably. Because what it means is that the Illinois and the Missouri's not so much a place like Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but, but some of those who feel caught in the middle where there are still boosters who say, look, what do you need? You can have my plane. Just compete for a national title. How do you handle that existence now?

[C]

Well, I think you, you, you have a better chance than you've ever had, perhaps. Okay, now, you know, you use Illinois. You know, we all talked about Illinois being a playoff team coming into the season. Right. And I think that was, that was fair and that's what Brett Bielema wanted. Okay. And I think he should get a lot of credit for being so outspoken about his goals and everything else. And I really appreciate the way he shares it with the media and he shares what he shares with his team to the media and so on. I think it's very interesting and very admirable. But he had a chance going into the season. He thought he had a chance. But then, you know, there were some injuries, there were the schedule. The loss at Indiana was certainly unexpected. The one way loss and all that. So I think Illinois, if you're talking about national championship, I do, I still think it's having that business. But Illinois will have a better chance to win the national championship now than before. The present rules and the present climate, climate. I do think that, I think it's. If I'm wrong, I think it's easier for now if I have nowadays gets a quarterback that gets them in the college, in the playoffs, but they don't have that quarterback the next year. You Know I have, will always have another quarterback. You get fired if you're a have and don't have a second team quarterback. And that's fair. I mean one of the reasons I got fired at you was I had a three way battle the quarterback that I screwed up.

[B]

Okay, how so?

[C]

I didn't make the right decision, but I had, I had the talent to make the right decision. So that was on me. But you know, Brett was being, was a little different situation. I'm not sure he had the depth at quarterback. He had a real veteran quarterback, a great quarterback, a five year quarterback. But if that was another program, he asked someone right away to step in. I don't, I don't know that we know who' going to step in. So I do think the middle as you call it, I think that's very accurate. They do have a better chance to get to the top. But is it going to be a one shot or they're going to maintain it?

[B]

It's really interesting because we are a, we're a two lane household. And having watched very, very closely what went on with Tulane and their quarterbacks and they know they're a have not, you know, they know that it's going to be, you know, whatever and this new coach and they've gone through, you know, it's Willie Fritz and then they luck into some role and, and everybody there understands it. The kids understand it. I think their donors even understand it. And they kept recruiting quarterbacks and they had like three guys in line to compete for the position and then they got Jake Retzlaff and I'm wondering, God, how many quarterbacks can you have? And the answer is you can probably never have too many as long as you're trusted to make that right decision.

[C]

Yeah. The only thing that's going to have to happen to the haves with quarterbacks right now is that that's going to hurt their depth. Right. Because if you're, if you're second and you can get a good financial deal and someone can convince you, especially as the playoff grows, that you know, we can be in the hunt for the national championship and you already challenged me once and what's happened? What's the have not I have is playing for the national championship. That's the only way you can define it. We can look at budgets, we can look at history and all that. Can I play for a national championship the four years I'm there or the three years that I'm there?

[B]

Well, what you're the DiNardo Doctrine then is something that Bill Belichick probably should have consulted because it just. When you see what that effort was purported to be, it makes it kind of seem silly listening to what you're saying, that that's North Carolina and if it's always going to be North Carolina. I'm not quite sure what anybody's outsized expectations were other than just being completely mesmerized by, by the star power in a way that blinded them to exactly what you're saying.

[C]

Right. So, you know, I mean, I don't know what, what Coach Belichick selling. I don't know. I don't know what his recruiting pitch is, but you know, for him to say certainly in his first recruiting class that if you come here you'll play for national championship, I don't know that that was believable. Now he's in the second recruiting class. It may reinforce that it's not available to him. But Dan, we don't know that Bill Belichick wants to win the national championship. I mean, he may want to win the ACC championship. You know, really Chapel Hill and I was recruited by Chapel Hill and I had friends that, that went to school there that were recruited. We never said, you know, it came down to North Carolina, Notre Dame for me and you know, I thought I'd play for a national championship if I went to Notre Dame. I didn't really feel that way about North Carolina and yet I still considered it. I mean it wasn't like, it wasn't like the only reason I was going to go to a school. And so, you know, I don't know where Coach Belichick's head is and what, what he intended to start out to do.

[B]

Well, it certainly hurts to see their rival down 15501 actually end up winning the ACC championship, which was absolutely hilarious and, and bad for the acc. The whole thing just every single thing seemed to go wrong for, for Jim Phillips in the acc. And they're obviously going to change some of their tiebreaker rules to make sure that doesn't happen again. When, when Notre Dame made their case to make the playoffs and whether it was against Miami or however it was positioned, I think their best argument is borne out in the. These group of five teams like Tulane getting their ass kicked and James Madison that doesn't. It's hard to make a case for them belonging. Should this be fixed? Should there be some sort of caveat to say, yeah, a non power conference team can make it if they have a certain ranking or does that put too much power in the rankings? How do you make sure the best teams are competing for the title?

[C]

I know, Dan. How much time do we have?

[B]

Plenty. All day.

[C]

It's a podcast. I can tell you what my headline is about this whole thing. It's the only billion dollar business in America that is run by volunteers. Okay, that's where it starts. The sub other one is two. Lane and James Madison can play for a national championship, but Notre Dame and BYU can't. The system is wrong. In fact, you know, I have. I mean, obviously I want Notre Dame to do well and all that. I'm very proud. I love school and all that, but as they say down south, they're fixing to get an automatic bid next year. I am so opposed to automatic bids. So to answer your question, you rank the teams 1 to 12 and they're the best teams. It doesn't matter how many from a conference, there's no automatic qualifiers. You fire everybody that pretends to know what they're doing. When they pick the 12 teams and you hire maybe 12 people, you pay them maybe 300 to $500,000 a year. It's their full time job. Some of them are experts in watching tape. Some of them are analytically. Some of them look at it from 10,000ft and it's their job. They live and they die learning who those 12 teams are. We have to understand this.

[B]

Don't forget your. Don't forget your. Wait. You need a private security budget for these people. They're going to have to live in some sort of fortress somewhere.

[C]

The people on this committee are very successful people. When they go home Sunday night and they walk into the office Monday and they got lost. Thousand problems. They're not watching tape. Not only that, I know of a member of the committee that didn't watch the tape. He asked an undergrad student at his university to watch the tape, give him notes so that he could bring it to the meeting. Now, you've been around. If one guy's doing that. I'll let you finish that sentence. All right, so. So if you want to fix it, hire people that know what they're doing. Rank it 1 to 12, no automatic qualifiers, and that's how you play for the national championship.

[B]

Would you interview for that job if it paid what you said it's paying, would you want to do that?

[C]

I'm not qualified anymore. The game, the game is so fluid, okay, that what we're doing, what they're doing offensively, I mean, I tried to catch up and me and Urban do this urban analysis and we study tape and all that, but I don't feel like I'd be qualified. I want someone that's current in the game. I want someone that's analytic. I want all these brains that we're going to pay a lot of money to get the 12 teams right, regardless of where they play and what they play. If James Madison's one of the top 12 teams, fine, but they don't get a pass because they're group of four over here. I mean, seriously, what are we doing? What are we doing? We're not, we're not playing for a national. It's almost a national championship bracket. It's like the big noon kickoff. It's almost big noon, you know, I mean, what are we doing?

[B]

Well, there is that. Do you think Notre Dame then would be better served just biting the bullet and joining a conference? Does that help things? Does that hurt things or does that not change anything?

[C]

Okay, I, I always have said that. First of all, they're in the acc, as you know, other than.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And, and hockey is in there. Ice hockey is part of the Big Ten.

[B]

Big Ten, yes.

[C]

And Johns Hopkins is part of lacrosse. If I'm, if I'm correct, if they're denied an opportunity to play for the national championship, that, that would, that would be one of the two reasons that they would, in my opinion, ever join a conference, football wise. The other one is if they get paid as much as NBC is paying them. So I think it's a two prong challenge if they can continue to play for the national championship. Now they can't this year. And so we might be at the cusp of what, what I'm saying there's two reasons to do. They can't play for the national championship and they can make the same money that NBC is, then I think they'd have to rethink during conference. You know, Jim Delaney was this close to getting him to join, and then the nerdy and board kind of backed off at a certain point.

[B]

How did he get him that close? What was his pitch?

[C]

I don't know. I honestly don't know, but I know he was close.

[B]

See that, that's what I would really like to know of what, what got them to that point at that time. It's, it's, it's amazing to me that there is still this much uncertainty and this much of the sort of almost like an ancient system that still matters. And that's where I try to, to sort through the, the idea of have and have not and the idea of, of branding almost and say because you have played for a national championship, therefore you are a have. And if we have a system that doesn't allow for anybody else to break into, makes the. How do you incentivize it? How do you create. We were never going to have relegation. And, and the, the idea of somebody actually told you are moving up, you are being. You are being placed upward or you're being shunted off to a lower spot. Would it. Would our world be better if it were possible that more teams could start a season with a reasonable belief that they could win a national title?

[C]

Well, I think. I think some people would say the portals that allow people to do that. And we're going to see it's. You know, there's a financial picture here. You know, Ohio State's athletic department lost $168 million last year. Let me say that one more time. Ohio State's athletic department lost $168 million last year after looking at 20, 24.

[B]

They spend money, okay, but that's. That's not just like the Cubs saying they lose money. That's not an accounting trick.

[C]

No, they lose money. What gets me, what got me to say in this, Stan, is the middle. The middle are doing very well financially, right? Because Northwestern gets the same money that Ohio State gets, okay? So if you look at the middle schools, you might have a problem on campus. The people that run the school might not, not allow your athletic department to spend more than they're making to maybe win a national championship at Ohio state. They'll spend 168 million. They'll spend 168 million more than they make every year to try to win a national championship. But this, these middle schools, they're getting the same money as Ohio State. They don't want to spend it. Hey, let me go back to nerding one before we leave it. Because what happens if they join the Big Ten all the way? Because right now. No, rephrase that. What happens if they join the Big Ten with doing the same thing that they're doing to the acc?

[B]

So five football, not football, okay?

[C]

All. Anything but not football. Five football. Listen to who they'd be playing. Historically, they've played. They've always played usc, right? They play. They played Michigan State, they played Purdue, they played Northwestern. It's almost like they have five games. They have history with all five of those teams. The ACC only sold. Sold out. I can't remember how many games, like 16 games Notre Dame played in every one of them. When the acc, if you look at their attendance, they don't sell their stadiums out, but with Notre Dame plays, they do. Same thing would happen in the Big Ten, although I don't think we have a tennis problem. But anyway, I just wanted to go back to that because. What about. Because right now, obviously the ACC and Notre Dame's having a little bit of a spat. What happens if they said, you know, the hockey team belongs to them? Why don't we go there with all our sports and figure football out as we go?

[B]

Well, either way, Notre Dame would be giving up their own television deal.

[C]

That's the problem.

[B]

That's really, as I look at it, to have that kind of autonomy in your TV deal and that kind of flexibility as that continues to change. And I don't know what outs they have in their TV deal to move stuff to a highest bidder, to continue to auction it off. If they have that, that's the golden goose, right?

[C]

Yeah, it's probably. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what they do. Maybe that. Maybe that's a game breaker forever. I don't know.

[B]

I'm also obviously enjoying watching the evolution of X and OS in, in all of football and seeing the, the amount of speed in college football, seeing what is happening with the. With RPOs. I was watching something that was really interesting the other day regarding the difficulty of quarterbacks coming from most major college programs and the difference in where linemen, how far downfield they're able to go to remain technically on sides or not illegally downfield. And also the position of the hash marks and what it means to have the play side versus the boundary side and how speed to the play side. In college you're able to have these speed mismatches that you just don't have in the NFL. Would the game commissioner, would the game be better served being standardized with the same field, the same ball and some of the same rules?

[C]

Yeah, I think it would be helpful. I wouldn't be opposed to that. I think the reason you see the college hash marks where they are is for generations we talk about defense and run game. Right. So who would, who would be involved in changing the hashbox? Well, it usually starts out maybe in a coach's committee, then an officials committee, then the committee from the ncaa. And so for years you'd want, if you wanted to do that. I think the coaches would push it, push back nowadays. I think the coaches would embrace it if they felt like it would help them offensively. Because it's an offensive game now.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And the other thing that's changed about the game is Back in the day, you know, the quarterbacks in the NFL were running a different offense than the quarterbacks in college. Now they're all, as you mentioned, they're all rp, not all, but a lot of RPO systems and the high school, the high school camps with quarterbacks, then high school offenses, then the college offense and the pro offenses. You know, you might be an 8th grader running at quarterback on RPO and if you make it to the NFL it's going to be the same RPO you ran when you're in eighth grade. That never used to happen.

[B]

Well, but they also didn't have 15 different privately hired coaches. It's not just going to showcases and camps right now that you have these mass produced quarterbacks who are hearing from every NFL third string quarterback and every NFL practice squad quarterback that ever lived has got a school and kick and it's got their kids. And these kids almost like everybody is a golf instructor, these swing instructors. It's incredible the cottage industry that's involved. I don't know how a coach begins to navigate almost unwinding how intensely coached some of these kids are from. They haven't set foot on a college campus yet.

[C]

Dan, I've been very, very rarely am I ever surprised about college football. What's going on? So I'm going to practice this summer and I'm watching a walkthrough and I'm five, 10 yards away from the walkthrough. Coach is very gracious to let me do that and I really appreciate it. And there's another guy kind of standing with me and we got into a conversation and I eventually asked him who he was because I know all the coaches on the staff. He was the quarterback, he was the off season quarterback coach for the quarterback that I was watching I believe. So this is a major college program that allows an outsider who's coaching their quarterback to come on the field. And he wasn't coaching, but just, I mean that was a head scratcher. I mean I didn't think we had gotten that far. But the quarterback and the quarterback span. We probably said to the coach, we want, we want Dan there. Dan's our off season coach and we want him to come to practice. And the coach says, okay, I want.

[B]

To take this conversation in another direction briefly before we let you go. And before I do that, I just want to remind people that Russ Armstrong of the Chicago Window guys is ready for your call right now. When you need new windows. 847-302-9171 and people have asked Me. Is Russ a real guy? Yeah, he's a real guy. He, he is. He's been to my house. He's looked over. He's, he's done multiple things here for my neighbors, for my friends, for my co workers. His number's 847-302-9171 is five star reviews [e-mail] and he will give you the best product, the best price, and make sure that your home for the moment is keeping all the heat in and then when it gets warmer, make sure all the cool stays in. He's in Chicago. His factory is in Chicago. And it's all his people that are going to come out and measure and install. There's no third party labor that he uses. And he's going to custom make great windows for your house. So don't wait. If you need windows, call Russ. 847-302-9171. Now, Jerry, as much as we've talked about the game and the schools, I know that you and I think are similar in that we still are idealistic when it comes to the relationship between coach and player. And I have had my moments of cynicism about it of the coaches who say, well, I'm a teacher first and some are, some aren't, and some are really good supplemental father figures to some of these kids as well, and important role models. And I still believe in a lot of that stuff. In a college football competitive world where players are arriving and leaving and constantly weighing what you've got. And this transactional opportunity, and that's the key word for me, is so much of the relationships have become transactional. Can a coach still have the role in a player's life, in a student's life, in a way that is, that affects the way it used to when you spend four years or five years getting to know somebody and growing that relationship, when these transactional relationships are shorter and fractured, does it matter? Can that relationship matter in both directions like it had in the past?

[C]

Yeah, I think those relationships right now are better than they've ever been. First of all, let's go. Let's go academically first. For the last two years, there's been more college graduates playing college football than any time in the history of college football. Okay. By virtue of transferring, you have to carry a certain amount of hours. You have to accrue a certain amount of hours to be eligible. And so we have more grad students playing the game than ever before, but certainly more undergraduates. And I say that as part of the Answer to your question, Dan, is the maturity level of the players and the openness of the coaches to become more mentorish than discipline than do it this way. You'll notice, you know, teams have the C on the jersey like it's a hockey, like the captains. How many 5th year guys are captains? How many portal guys become captains? The relationships. There used to be nine coaches, two graduate assistants. Now it's unlimited amount of coaches. They have to have football staff meetings in auditoriums. There's basically 50 coaches now on every major college football staff. And that's part of the relationship. They get to know the coaches better, they spend more time with these new people that come in. I go around in the summer. It's one of the favorite times of the year for me. These kids are great. I mean they work their asses off. No generation has ever worked as hard as this generation is working. You don't know if someone's getting a hundred dollars or a million dollars of practice. You know the overblown fact that they're getting paid, they should get paid when they started our parsley Jean get paid any more than the highest paid professor in there. When I was there, I got a room book sports and I got a full scholarship.

[B]

It was equal.

[C]

He was making $35,000. I wasn't. My parents weren't paying my tuition. But when you stop paying guys $11 million a year and they don't play, that's a problem. But the money hasn't been a problem either. So I think the number of coaches, the number of time that they spend with these guys has broken all barriers in a good way.

[B]

And that's really interesting and I want to go back to the word that you used, maturity. Because I think the increase in the players power, just to simplify it, the fact that you have, you know, coaches or management, to use these professional terms, the power of the labor force is, and the respect that is given to them to have, like you say, to have some of their own coaches and to have marketing people, to have agents. The polish that you hear in interview skills, the, the, the media polish on so many of these kids is it's worlds different than it used to be. And it sounds like in a roundabout way we've gotten back to what the purpose of higher education for a long time is supposed to be, is to prepare you for the rest of your life. And if in fact what you're saying is true, that not only do the players have more choice, they've got more power, they have more opportunity to find the Right. Fit for them. It may be that even though they're going to more colleges in four years or five years, that the actual experience may end up being more valuable to them than ever. And it's just an unconventional way to look at it. It's a different prism to criticize. That, I think may make a lot of people uncomfortable, but it sounds like what you're saying.

[C]

Yeah. And the other thing about some of the new rules, the non athlete transfers at a higher rate than the athlete does. Okay. And your child comes to you and he's a non athlete, and he or she says, you know, I thought I wanted to major in engineering. I don't. I wanted to go where I. Where I. My second choice. I want to transfer. You know, that. That happens more outside it.

[B]

We lived it. We lived it. You're describing exactly what happened with. With our son who spent a year at Bucknell. And he said, you know, it was everything I thought I wanted. It's a bad fit. I want to reopen things and reconsider. And he found Tulane and could not be happy. Happier, but didn't know. But didn't even have Tulane on his list before until he had a year of college experience.

[C]

Right. And you, as a parent, if you just said, no, you can't do that, stick it out. This is your decision.

[B]

What are you.

[C]

No, you can't change it. I mean, you shouldn't be able to say that to an athlete. You know, a lot. A lot of our issues now have been solved because of the ncaa. Dad, you know what the Pellegrin is? Dan. Right.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

When I first got into coaching, I was at Maine, and then I was Eastern Michigan. We'd always have these team meetings, and if anybody on the team hadn't filled out the Pell Grant, we had a team meeting, and everyone filled out the Pell Grant. Now, we knew, obviously, when we recruited them who was going to qualify and who wasn't. Right? The guys qualified for Pell Grant. It was against the NCAA rule. Once that money from the government was given to the university, they weren't allowed to give it to the student. It went into the athletic department's budget. Okay? So then the NCAA got exposed that they were basically stealing. The money becomes a slush fund. Then they said, we'll split it. They split it for a while, and now they get all of it. The other issue is Jeremiah Smith Davian Clowney. You remember David Clowney, of course, when he was a sophomore. I said, we're stealing generational wealth from him. The reason that football players can't go before their junior year is because they're not physically ready. That was, that was the reason. It really was a way for a coach to control his roster Because David McCloud was certainly ready after a sophomore year. Right now, Jeremiah Smith can go to the NFL and start, but there's a rule out here that says, no, he can't. Well, that rule benefits Ryan Day. It's not Ryan Day's fault. I think Ryan Day would vote to change the rule as well, but the NCAA doesn't see it that way. So a lot of what's going on now is making up for many years of unfair treatment by the NCAA to us through network.

[B]

Oh, if it were up to me, I would dissolve the NCAA and allow the conferences and with a seat at the table or multiple seats on a board for the players. And there should be. It should be collectively bargained. And I just think that you can commingle some of the attributes of a professional labor arrangement. But obviously the laws are so byzantine that the idea of that happening, the idea of actually drawing a map to that, to that destination would be immensely difficult. But hey, I think the bowl system as we know it, and we're watching it crumble, I think within. And I don't know what you would say within five years, 10 years with these secondary and tertiary bowls are probably going to go away, are they not?

[C]

Yeah, they are. There's. There's really no benefit for the players. You know, it's an extra game. And I guess you could, you can make a case for someone that is not going to play after college. It would be a reward and all that. But, you know, I think attendance is going to be down, especially if, you know, they're going to expand, they're going to expand the committee, expand the playoff. You know, like Notre Dame not going to the. Again, I gave you my headlines about the billionaires and that running by volunteers. But what keeps. The other headline is Notre Dame could go to the Pop Tarts bowl as James Madison was playing for the national championship. It really didn't make sense to me. And the other thing about Notre Dame, Notre Dame has a history of saying no to bowl games. First of all, they never went to a bowl game until 1970. And Father Hesburgh was going to get $400,000 to go to the Cotton bowl. And he was going to, he was going to put it because he wanted to increase minority students and he wanted a budget to do that. Then that went on for two years and then they took a Team vote. And they didn't go in 1971, and then they didn't go in 1988 and all that. So the people that are on their name, student athletes or football players for not going to Pop Tarts bowl, they don't understand the history. Nerd. A lot of times it was up to the players whether they wanted to go or not, whether the national championship was a factor or not. So it's just part of their history.

[B]

You know, I could, I could spend hours talking about this stuff. We don't. I don't want to keep you for more time than that, which you've been generous to give us today. This is a hell of a lot of fun and I'd love to do it again sometime. Jerry, great catching up and terrific stuff. So Merry Christmas. Happy New Year to you and yours.

[C]

Same new day. Thanks. Great to see you again.

[B]

Thanks. That's Jerry DiNardo. That's really cool. That's. Man, there's. There are a lot of things there where the. It makes it feel like college football, the ncaa. There's so many things we discussed that can be broadened out to larger things and maybe there'll be a time and a place for that. December does not have to be the most expensive month of the year. If you're betting with my bookie, 12 Days of Christmas is coming soon. Actually, I believe it's here. The twelve days of Christmas is, is here is going on daily offers. That means back to back across sports and casino. There's always going to be something when you check in. They could be free spins, they could be profit boosts. It could be bet and gets. It could be surprise drops for social users, for telegram users. Right now, you got everything you want available. It's a. It's a panoply, a smorgasbord of NFL bowl season, college hoops, NBA, all with opportunities to cash. So go to my bookie right now. Punch in the code DBU for Dan Bernstein Unfiltered. Your first bets covered up to 500 bucks. You go big, you miss on the first one, use your bet back bonus token and run it back. DBU is the code. Get registered, make your deposit, use the code DBU and bet on anything, anywhere, anytime. Only with my bookie, Dan Bernstein. Unfiltered has been brought to you in partnership with my bookie and also brought to you by our friends at Chicago Window. Guys, call Russ Armstrong at 847-302-9171. That'll do it for DBU. I'm Dan Bernstein. Our producer Matt Abaticola. Our guest, Jerry DiNardo. On 31 2, sports. Sports. Dan Bernstein.

[C]

Unfiltered.

[B]

Unfiltered. On 31 2, sports.