← Dan Bernstein Unfiltered
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- [00:00]
Sleep Number Narrator
Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed?
- [00:02]
Sleep Number Customer 1
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:03]
Will Perdue
Can I make my site firmer?
- [00:05]
Dan Bernstein
Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:06]
Sleep Number Narrator
Sleep Number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting J.D. power ranks sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store and online. And now the more you buy, the more you save on beds, faces and more limited time. For J.D. power 2025 award information, visit jdpower.com awards check it out at the Sleep Number Store or sleepnumber.com today. Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed?
- [00:32]
Sleep Number Customer 1
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:34]
Will Perdue
Can I make my site firmer?
- [00:35]
Dan Bernstein
Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:37]
Sleep Number Narrator
Sleep Number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting J.D. power ranks sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store and online. And now the more you buy, the more you save on beds, faces and more limited time for J.D. power 2025 award information, visit J.D. power.com awards check it out at the Sleep Number Store or SleepNumber.com today.
- [01:04]
Will Perdue
Organizations Win Championships A Chicago Bulls Podcast.
- [01:07]
Dan Bernstein
With Jason and dan Bernstein on Three One Two Sports. Welcome to episode 119 of Organizations Win Championships, a Chicago Bulls podcast here on 312 Sports. I'm Dan Bernstein, that is Jason Bernstein, and now we can say and it means something, the man in the middle, literally and figuratively is former Bulls center Will Purdue, who is here to talk about your Chicago Bulls who currently at that incredibly improbable win last night. I'll tell you how improbable in a little bit, but The Bulls are 7 and 6, currently eighth in the east as they continue their western swing and as of right now they are 13th in offensive rating, 21st in defensive rating and 18th in net rating. But. But they are certainly playing an exciting, energetic brand of basketball, going way deep on this roster due to injuries and certainly more than worth our time so far this season. Will, I know it's been a while since you've had the platform to opine on your Chicago Bulls. The easy question right now, what do you think?
- [02:20]
Will Perdue
I enjoy watching them, quite honestly. You know, I think this the record, not necessarily how they played at the beginning and how they played at the end. I think that record of seven and six is kind of where they are as far as the quality of a team. As you talked about that. I mean, listen, considering a double overtime game against Utah, no Kobe White, if I was a gambling man, I would have bet on Denver and the points all night long. Right. But then they come and they win that game. So as much as I just made the statement, I enjoy watching them play. I love their depth. Quite honestly, they might have the best bench in the league when you talk about, you know, from 6 to 10 as far as the depth that they have. A specific example is Javon Carter doesn't hardly play. But then last night gives you 15 points, four rebounds. But I think we're still at the level, which is indicative of the last two games. Small sample size, but still at the level where this team continues to play at the level of their competition. And until they can flip that script and force teams to play at their level, I think that's where we'll continue to see the inconsistencies. But fun to watch. Never out of a game and make it exciting.
- [03:50]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, go ahead, Jake.
- [03:52]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, they're never out of a game and that's 100% true. There have been a few times where they've let teams back into games and we saw it on opening night against Detroit. They did come back and we will, I'm assuming, get to the Detroit game. But they, like you said, they, they no matter how good or bad the team is, they either play up or down. And so it's really hard to know how, where they'll be. But the thing is that if they keep doing it in this fashion, I, I think you're right there. If they go.500, that would be a wild upset when it comes to preseason over under win total. So. And in this conference, that, that's a, that could be a playoff spot. That'll, that's definitely a play in spot if not a playoff spot because this conference is very weak with the, the amount of injuries and just the quality of teams. It's not as, it's not as high as the West.
- [04:47]
Will Perdue
No, I agree with you 100%. Listen, we've all felt that we were going for a four peat when it came for, came towards, you know, the play in tournament, right. And best case scenario, possibly slide into that sixth spot. Then after those first five games, you're like, oh yeah, these, these guys, they're good. But you, you always kind of held your breath a little bit, right? It's you kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop and then things just kind of turned on him a little bit. But you know, like you said, Jason, because of the lack, I don't want to say talent because there's a lot of talent in the East. There's Just so much uncertainty, right. We're like scratching our head about what's going on with the Orlando Magic. We're asking ourselves who are the Miami Heat? Because they're no longer a grind them out kind of team. They're trying to play up tempo as well. And without Tyler Hero and somebody else, they just beat Cleveland. You know, we know what Boston is. They're dumping salary and they've got serious injuries. You never know if Joel Embiid is going to make it to the playoffs. Now you got Giannis is hurting Milwaukee. So you know, if the Bulls can stay healthy and get healthy, you know, Kobe played one game, took a game off. You really don't know what can happen. Because as much as you try to value and make assessments in the regular season, and it's just my opinion, the style of which they play up tempo, the style of which they have to play up tempo to give themselves the best chance to win. And I'd love to get your opinion because their defensive rating is only 21st in the league. It's not good enough to maintain over a seven game series if you're playing a healthy team to give them an honest opportunity to win a series. Now if it's an unhealthy team and somebody's hurt and they limp into the playoffs, they've got a really good chance of beating somebody because of how they play and their depth. But I think in. I'd love to get your guys opinion as well. You know, that's two things I want your opinion on. You still don't have that guy, right, that you can go to in the playoffs. Because as much as they want to try to push the tempo, that may be the one thing out of how much the game has changed that is the one thing that still means that to me remains constant, is the game slows down in the playoffs, specifically in the fourth quarter. And that to me is a disadvantage to this Bulls team and the way they have to play and the way they're put together.
- [07:41]
Dan Bernstein
Well, I think a lot of that too has shown itself. When the losing streak began, when you saw what happened, first it was Giannis T taking over and there was nothing they could do. Then it was Donovan Mitchell of the Cavaliers taking over. Nothing they could do. And then, my God, what Wemby did to them in the fourth quarter, I don't expect there are, there are a lot of teams that can't do that. And we even saw what, what Lowry Markkanen was doing. I think that's part of it too. Is, is Being able to counter somebody where you know where it's going, you know what they're doing. I think the other aspect for which you asked our opinion is when it comes to style of play, I think there's a higher volatility in their reliance on three pointers. It isn't just the pace, it's what the pace is getting them. And the number of times we see a Josh giddy drive, not necessarily to finish, but to kick it out and get that quick rotation and get that three. There's going to be nights where they're falling. Hell, they, they won this last game last night in large part due to that 40 point third quarter where they just exploded. And like you say, Javon Carter was 5 of 10. He's got 15 points in 18 minutes. There's going to be games where he comes in and he's over eight and you lose. So I just think that there's. They've chosen this life that looks a whole lot better with a healthy Kobe White, with a healthy Tre Jones. And the worries that I have, we're certainly going to get into that. But Will, I don't know how you can sustain this without rim protection. And they're utterly, utterly lacking in rim protection right now. And if it means, I don't know, they're going to make a deadline move, but their, their inability to, to block a shot makes it hard to sustain winning at this tempo.
- [09:28]
Will Perdue
Yeah, because it's just, there's no. Because one of the things. And I know, listen, we're talking about a championship caliber quality team when I talk about, you know, on the teams that I played on.
- [09:40]
Dan Bernstein
But that's the standard. The title of this podcast, the Little Flex there too is, is organizations win championships. And that while is a. Of course, it's a reference to what Jerry Krause said and what was widely misinterpreted by Michael Jordan and others. But that, that's the standard here. So we should talk about it that way.
- [09:57]
Will Perdue
I agree with you because I say it all the time, you know, that people are like, you know, why can't you just focus on this team, how well they're playing and how well Herder's playing and how well IO is playing. Just, let's just, let's just talk about that stuff. You know, as, as Chuck used to, as Chuck likes to say, balloons and seashells, you know. Right. And I, I enjoy talking about all the good things that they're doing and the great stories that they have. That's, that's why I'm sitting here saying, I've been to every freaking home game because they're so entertaining to watch. Right? I apologize, I missed one. But I've been to the. I like, my wife and I, we're going to the game because, you know, they're, they're fun to watch. Sometimes it's a little too much drama and unnecessary drama. But like you talked about, there's no. During a timeout, during late game situations, there's no thought about, oh, maybe we shouldn't drive this thing into the paint. The results are going to be disastrous. Right? It's no, let's run a little screen roll, turn the corner. If you can get all the way to the rim, we'll take the easy two. If they want to collapse just like everybody in the league does, then we'll get the paint touch and we'll kick out to the guy in the corner. Then if he's guarded, then you dump it off to the guy on the wing, who most likely at that point will be open because it's just too many passes in a short period of time for the defense to recover. And they'll get an open 3. But more times than not, as you just talked about, there's just. It's you. You can get to the rim unabated, and you sit there and you're like, what. What just happened to the rotation? And the thing is, I know people love to bash on Vuch, right? I know the fans here just, they're not big fans. You know, they like Vuch when he plays well and when the team loses, he has a tendency to be the ire of their disappointment.
- [11:56]
Jason Bernstein
Including Dan Bernstein.
- [11:57]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, no, I'm, I've, I've got my issues with.
- [12:00]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, you texted me last night because.
- [12:03]
Dan Bernstein
Because if you get him involved in a high screen role and you make him like, like Markkanen carved him and I'm not. It just. Look, Zubots did it last year. All you need is that high pick and roll and take advantage of his lack of foot speed. Your guy's going to beat him to the basket every time.
- [12:21]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, but. Well, you're saying Larry Markin, like, he hasn't been like, he's not averaging 30.6 points per game.
- [12:26]
Dan Bernstein
No, I. But I know.
- [12:27]
Jason Bernstein
And you.
- [12:28]
Dan Bernstein
And I'm not, I'm not holding Jokic against him at all because nobody can do anything with that. He's. He's impossible to guard. I. So I'm not. I. It just. And I know Stacy is always calling in the, in the, in the games for you know, post him up, post him up, post him up. And they don't, it's just not what they're running.
- [12:45]
Will Perdue
No, they don't want to do that because they, that. But that's the other thing is I, I agree with Stacy because just because that's, you know, old school basketball doesn't mean you can still score from inside out. Because if he can score six or eight straight points, the defense is going to adjust and they're going to then double to take the ball out of his hands. And then who do you think's open on the perimeter? The shooters? You know, it's just because Dan, and you know this and so does Jason, the game has changed. It works from outside in instead of inside out. That's just what the game is. It's all about analytics. Right. You talked about the threes. Two straight games of 50 plus. Now I know the Utah game, it was double overtime, but the Denver game wasn't double overtime. And I think what they shoot 53 point threes now, they shot 36%. That's great. But we also know that that's fool's gold. And that's what I mean. And you hit it right on the head. Two things. Number one, who is the guy you can go to in late game situations when your team is struggling to score as a team because of the defense you're playing against? Right. I know this is, and you talked about it. So let's do this. Organizations win championships. Let's talk about the best teams in the league. What is the defensive rating for the Oklahoma City Thunder?
- [14:16]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, I'm sure I, I can, I can check it right now, but I can probably, it's probably number one.
- [14:21]
Will Perdue
I think it's top five. Okay. Along with their offense. But they have probably the mvp who. I love the fact when guys win the mvp.
- [14:33]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. They're number one in defensive rating.
- [14:35]
Will Perdue
Yeah.
- [14:35]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah.
- [14:36]
Will Perdue
And that, that's a dangerous combination. Number one in defensive rating. Youngest team in the league coming off winning a championship. And I just read an article today. Do you see how many teams, draft picks they have coming up? All of them.
- [14:52]
Dan Bernstein
It's all of them.
- [14:53]
Will Perdue
I mean, it's just, I mean, come on, man. This is, this is, this is not good for the league.
- [14:59]
Jason Bernstein
Sam Presti.
- [15:01]
Will Perdue
But my point is, is that, okay, that's the benchmark. Right. You got to figure out a way your defense has to be better than 21st if you really want to make a punch an impact in the playoffs. And that's as you pointed out, I always tell People, there are certain organizations. The Chicago Bulls, number one, because this is what the podcast is about. The Miami Heat, number two. The Boston Celtics, number three. The Los Angeles Lakers, number four. The San Antonio spurs, number five. Now, you could say Denver. Even though they've only won one championship, you see what their goal is. It's championship or bust, right? Because if Denver doesn't make it to the finals, they're. To them, their season is a. Is a waste. It's a failure. Same thing with Oklahoma City. Same thing. Because LeBron's in LA. I don't think they're getting there, but that's their goal. And that's probably the one thing that we sit here and ask ourselves, what exactly is the goal of this organization? And the reason why I word it like that. Okay. Is because I think all three of us will agree. And, you know, you've surprised me, Dan, by saying this team is fun to watch. They play a tempo that is exciting. They rely, you know, they lean heavily on the three, and they win games that they probably shouldn't and they lose games that they probably should. But that's every team in the league. But the reason why I say this is now to me, about the organization is because the team is who the team is.
- [16:41]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [16:41]
Will Perdue
You guys have actually done a nice job. I mean, at the end of the day, we all kind of thought that, you know, they were joking. I'll just be vague here and say they were joking when they said, I want 10 good guys.
- [16:56]
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- [18:33]
Dan Bernstein
And I kind of laughed when Arturis said sometimes we look at we we can win with depth. And I'm just, I was laughing and here's the thing. He's right to an extent.
- [18:44]
Jason Bernstein
Correct.
- [18:44]
Dan Bernstein
I think you can win these games. You can be a really fun regular season team and maybe win a playoff series by out trying people. And having depth is important.
- [18:56]
Jason Bernstein
Don't, don't get me wrong. Depth is incredibly important. You look at the Phoenix Suns. What happened to them when they were a really deep team and they had Jay Crowder and Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges on those teams. They got to the NBA Finals and won two games. Then you get rid of it for Kevin Durant and look what happened to that. But I understand what you're saying that they can't, it can't just be depth. You need to have a guy. As Will was saying that you need, you need star power in this league. And back to your point about rim protection and this goes to what are the Bulls going to do to get closer to a championship? Is it going to be this season? Probably not. But what are they going to do because you don't want you again. You don't want to be in that middle ground. What I'm, what I'm going toward here is it's, it's speculation and I don't want to get ahead of myself here but it's worth noting it if Anthony Davis becomes available. No. Too old. But then why do we have vouch.
- [19:56]
Dan Bernstein
I thought you're going to bring up a different name.
- [19:58]
Jason Bernstein
What John Morant?
- [19:59]
Dan Bernstein
What if Lowry Markkanen becomes available?
- [20:01]
Will Perdue
Oh, well.
- [20:01]
Jason Bernstein
But it's.
- [20:02]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, that's true because they, they're. If you look at that roster.
- [20:06]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah. The warriors didn't trade for him because Draymond Green said no. And people are just saying, well, you would have been in that package and shipped to Utah.
- [20:13]
Dan Bernstein
If you start looking around, like, Keonte George and Ace Bailey, they've got some dudes. And when I start looking for the future, like, who's the next Houston, it might be Portland who they're going to see next.
- [20:24]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, don't get me started on Portland.
- [20:26]
Dan Bernstein
This Utah team is really well coached, and they're. They're. So if. If they think that maybe marketing doesn't quite line up, I'm on the phone because that. Then we're talking, then it's getting interesting.
- [20:40]
Will Perdue
And you actually have some talent that teams are probably interested in, quite honestly.
- [20:46]
Jason Bernstein
Right.
- [20:48]
Will Perdue
So, you know, listen, it's still a situation. You mentioned Anthony Davis. It's just. I don't. I'm sorry.
- [20:59]
Jason Bernstein
I mean, I just thought it would. Because it's rim protection, and that's.
- [21:02]
Will Perdue
I like. I like his talent, but it's the.
- [21:04]
Jason Bernstein
Thought he's hurt all the time. That's the thing. And he's fat.
- [21:06]
Will Perdue
Now, here's the other thing that I'm gonna throw at you when you mention players like that. If. If we had somebody. And I don't know this for a fact. Okay, but just. Let's just hear me out for a second. Certain. It's like, what made Jerry Krause and Phil Jackson feel like that? Dennis Rodman. And I'm not bringing this up because I was the one traded for him, but think about this. What made Phil Jackson and Jerry Krause feel like they could trust Dennis Rodman, considering his history, if he came to Chicago? Meaning he's gonna show up. He's not. He's gonna go out to the edge of the diving board, but not jump in the deep end. Michael Jordan. Regardless of how much he hated Michael when he was at Detroit, he respected him, and he was gonna play and continue to be there for that respect.
- [22:10]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah.
- [22:10]
Will Perdue
He skipped practices. He partied all the time. He bitched and moaned about how he needed to leave Utah and go to Vegas and all this stuff. Right. But at the end of the day, Michael knew. Then when it was time for a game, when he turned and looked to his left, Dennis was there. And that's because Dennis respected Phil Jackson and Dennis respected Michael Jordan. I'm not sure he respected anybody else, but because of those two guys, I'm.
- [22:37]
Dan Bernstein
Not sure he respected himself.
- [22:39]
Will Perdue
Correct. But he was playing for the other guys. He wasn't playing for himself. Right. But that's My point is, is that, do we think that Anthony Davis as a player? Because I. And this is just part of what I think from how I was brought up, the organizations I played with. Since Doncic has left that team, what has he become as a player?
- [23:06]
Dan Bernstein
Well, that I don't know that he would be ready to buy into whatever the Bulls have right now. And I don't, I don't generally think you can you win a championship because of chemistry or want to or buy in, but it is noticeable with this Bulls team. And I'll tell you, last night I saw something that I loved and it was of all people, when Patrick Williams was pulled down by Tim Hardaway Jr. And then I think it was Jamal Murray that came in and hit him in the face. They ended up calling a flagrant on the pull down and not on the contact with his face. They did call a flagrant one, but I'll damned that Patrick Williams got up and went nose to nose and showed a little bit of an energy that I hadn't seen from him. Of course, Daylon Terry comes running in because he can't wait to be part of something. And I don't really mind some of that. And I'm not saying I want guys fighting and I don't want guys suspended or throwing punches or being stupid. But for Patrick, hey, man, that's Patrick the Mr. Passive, Ferdinand the Bull out there picking flowers. That, that for him to do that, it said something to me. And there, there definitely is and all. Say what you want about all these guys who maybe you hadn't heard of or hadn't really watched before. Trey Jones plays hard, man. He's a really good second unit point guard. And well, while Kevin Herder.
- [24:37]
Will Perdue
All right, hold on, hold on.
- [24:38]
Dan Bernstein
Kevin Herder's a, he's a tough nut.
- [24:41]
Will Perdue
You brought that up.
- [24:42]
Jason Bernstein
They got NBA players.
- [24:43]
Will Perdue
Yeah, I'm going to throw something out there. And this is the, this is. You got to remember something. What's coming up. What's. What's around the bend here. Kobe White's going to be a free agent. Iota Sumo is going to be a free agent. I'm not saying that Trey Jones is a better player than Kobe White. Please don't misinterpret what I'm about to say, but I truly believe if you take that starting unit for what we think it's supposed to be, that Tre Jones is a better fit for that starting unit than Kobe White.
- [25:18]
Dan Bernstein
Ooh.
- [25:20]
Jason Bernstein
Now, honestly, dad, before you say anything, I called you dad, so that means we're getting real.
- [25:26]
Will Perdue
Yeah.
- [25:26]
Dan Bernstein
I must have said something stupid if.
- [25:28]
Jason Bernstein
You'Re calling because did I not tell you when Trey Jones was playing in the starting line of I said they look really damn good. I said it.
- [25:37]
Dan Bernstein
Okay, let me, let me white off Kobe.
- [25:41]
Jason Bernstein
White off of the bench and granted the bench unit's been great and I do want to say Jalen Smith has been great in limited minutes.
- [25:47]
Dan Bernstein
Oh but they've asked so much of.
- [25:49]
Jason Bernstein
Him to 15 and eight coming back, baby.
- [25:51]
Dan Bernstein
Also not letting that go.
- [25:54]
Jason Bernstein
Never.
- [25:55]
Will Perdue
Never.
- [25:56]
Jason Bernstein
But imagine Kobe coming off the bench and scoring 22. You know, why can't you do that? Because and I understand, I understand that he's probably, he's definitely the best score individual scorer on the I think Tre.
- [26:10]
Dan Bernstein
Jones, Trey Jones is a, he is a second unit point guard on a champion. I don't think he's a starting point guard on a champion. And I, I think Josh Giddey the what they're the if you look at their system and if you watch the five out stuff that Billy is running here and it's very common and in the games that I've gone to I have been tracking and trying to diagram as best I can what a lot of other teams are doing and a lot of teams are running the same five out stuff where we used to go to a game and everybody's running floppy actions and everybody's running isos and everybody's running slice cuts and the pin downs and all that. What we're seeing now is all this five out. The, the the high screen rolls into flare actions and into the weak side dive cuts with everybody away. And I love the way Kobe fits with giddy in some of the guard guard quick actions that they can do. Trey Jones just can't shoot well enough in what they're doing now. If, if they ran some more traditional point guard based stuff. Jay, I agree with you. I also think they're a better defensive team when, when Kobe's not necessarily out there.
- [27:26]
Jason Bernstein
That's also and also Trey Jones is a great defensive player.
- [27:29]
Dan Bernstein
He is. So you can't.
- [27:30]
Jason Bernstein
So it's not really. So that's not really. That's not really a comparison. I just want to say on the only, the only thing that I don't like with Gideon, Kobe together is that I feel like I understand that Kobe is a great off ball shooter. He's great in the catch and shoot.
- [27:46]
Dan Bernstein
Catch and shoot.
- [27:47]
Jason Bernstein
Great catch and shoot and I think that fits really well. However, who are you giving the ball to at the end of the game? Because Giddy can make a play. But Kobe's your best scorer. And I think that Kobe in general, I know he's good off the ball. I think both of them are too on ball dominant to be two ball needy. Two ball needy. Yeah. Because Giddy needs to make a play. He can do that little floater off the glass. He can pass the ball. And I honestly prefer the ball in Giddy's hands because there are more options, in my opinion, because of his passing ability. And also I think his height matters if you get a switch.
- [28:28]
Dan Bernstein
Finally. He's finally realizing he's six, eight.
- [28:31]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, six nine. I always saying he's six, nine. Well, what do you. It might be the hair. Who.
- [28:35]
Dan Bernstein
But giddy. But Fletch 69 with the afro.
- [28:41]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [28:41]
Will Perdue
All right, now hold on a second. Here's the thing. I mean, it's not like anything you said is wrong, but to me, if you want to talk about a late game situation, okay. You don't have a DeMar DeRozan on this team.
- [28:57]
Jason Bernstein
Good.
- [28:59]
Will Perdue
But what you do have, as Dan, you just pointed out, you might have one of the best facilitators in the league in Josh Giddy.
- [29:10]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [29:11]
Will Perdue
So I feel like that, number one, you put the ball in Josh Giddy's hands in late game situations because he can score good enough to be a threat.
- [29:23]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Will Perdue
To where you got to be very careful with how you help or how far you play off. And number two, you need to start running some Steph Curry action. Because I'll ask both you guys, in late game situations, do the Golden State warriors just hand the ball to Steph and say go to work? No, they run them off a bunch of screens, a lot of flare screens. Don't they basically put the ball in somebody else's hands and let him basically run somebody. Kind of like you used to see Hersey Hawkins at Bradley. Right. The same type of thing. Not a guy that breaks you down off the dribble. He can with the eyebrow fake and all that stuff. But a guy, they run off and he's. He's so quick with catch and release. Catch and release, even when you're in his face. I think you could be really successful running those type of plays for Kobe.
- [30:13]
Jason Bernstein
He's also.
- [30:14]
Will Perdue
Because of his ability to shoot like.
- [30:16]
Jason Bernstein
That, he can't shoot like that, though. I mean, stuff that's.
- [30:20]
Will Perdue
He's one of a kind. He's. I mean, he's the guy that changed the game. Yeah, he's the guy that changed, but it's a copycat. League. So in order to win, you need guys that are similar than that. And I think Kobe can do stuff like that. I really do. But it's because of the fact that you now have giddy that permits you to do that.
- [30:42]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. My worry, though is if you're doing some of that, I know there are ways you can counter it. Obviously, if you prefer that he finishes at the rim, you would trail. So you would have his man trail and help to force a curl. You could, in any number of these screens that you're talking about will, you can double, you can blitz it. And depending on the athletic these. In positionless basketball, there's so many opportunities to either switch or double and recover. We've seen the Bulls get burned by switches because, you know, in not necessarily knowing who's following whom and requiring that kind of communication. But I think. I don't know that Kobe's handle is tight enough that if you force him to catch and put it on the floor, teams will come weak and attack that dribble with flash doubles right now.
- [31:43]
Will Perdue
But that. You're exactly right. Right. Because it's. If I'm an opponent, my goal is now to take the hand, take the ball out of the hands of Josh Giddey and Kobe White, let somebody else beat us. But this is where I think sometimes you make a mistake by putting your best shooters on the floor. Sometimes you got to put your smartest players on the floor so that those guys can read off exactly what you said, where you as a coach now have the confidence. And that's the other thing is I think that the Bulls did a great job of improving their basketball iq because I agree with you. I think that now in late game situations, you should have Josh Giddey on the floor as your primary ball handler and facilitator. Right? Because he's proven that he can get to the rim. He's proven that he can knock down a three occasionally. Right. His shooting has gotten better. But now we're talking about and Kobe because he's your best scorer. But now to me, you got to go with smarts. And there's a reason why this dude is playing the best basketball of his life, and that's Kevin Herder. He needs to be on the floor in late game situations and not because he's some great player. But when I watch him play, he. His basketball IQ blows me away. How he sneaks in and gets offensive rebounds, how he's the guy that's always doing the back cut when the play is over, when he's Overplayed. And he's getting easy, easy looks at the rim because it's just like last night in that game. You're like herder and then you're like 20, how the hell did he score 20, right? But also out of only 12 shots, 7 of 12, 4 of 9 from three smart basketball IQ when those, when those switches are made, he can do what you can do. All right? And then now because of his smarts, Trey Jones, not because he's a great shooter, but because of how smart he is. And then Iojisumu and you're like, oh, wait a minute, that's a five guard lineup. I'm like, if you got the ball last, hell yeah. That's the five guard lineup.
- [33:49]
Dan Bernstein
Good luck on offense. The only problem I have with Herter is the ability to get somebody switched onto him to attack him individually, defensively. And I know that Billy can do this if it is one of these sequential situational times where you can, when you put Patrick Williams in and have a really good free throw shooter, a guy who can hit logo threes, who is also capable of, of holding his own physically, defensively. I, I just, I, I wish you could combine some of these players too.
- [34:23]
Jason Bernstein
You know what?
- [34:24]
Dan Bernstein
A Cora is a wonderful defensive player, but they're leaving him on offense.
- [34:28]
Jason Bernstein
I wanted to mention, and this kind of, just, this is just kind of a general question, should Patrick Williams start over Okoro? Because as when we talk to Jason Goff, he, we, he's not the biggest fan of Okoro and I think that his limited offensive output, as good of a defender as he is, if you're, if you're looking to even be a six seed in the playoffs, it's hard, it's hard when one of your starters can't score at all.
- [34:55]
Will Perdue
But also here's. Remember, remember this, okay? Take, go back to last year and the year before when you put P. Will on the floor with scores, what happens to him?
- [35:06]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, true disappear. Just kind of fades.
- [35:08]
Will Perdue
Okay, so if you put him in that starting lineup, he then basically becomes your fifth option. So then what happens? He has a tendency to stand around. I think in his mind he truly believes that he's a better scorer with the second unit because I feel like he plays harder and he plays better with the second unit. I mean, I think what we've seen as of late is a little uptick in his scoring. I mean, I think this is who he is, right? We've always talked about, you hit him on the head. He's very passive, he's he's not aggressive. I talked about somebody should be feeding this guy nails, but I think he's a guy, quite honestly, that's going to give you between seven and ten points a night. Seven points against Denver. And he's just, he's never going to be the rebounder that we want him to be. I mean, it's for him to have only two rebounds.
- [35:59]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [36:00]
Will Perdue
In 17 minutes, that's unforgivable. But that happens more often than not. So he's probably a guy that's going to give you seven to 10 points and three to five rebounds. Right. I think a Coro is basically this. Those two guys are the same exact guys. But I like a Coro's motor more so than I like P. Will's motor. That's just my opinion. I think you could go either way. But then you start asking yourself, okay, who's the better fit for what unit and playing with who? And then that's where Billy's job comes into question. And I'm not saying he's doing a bad job. I think he's actually doing a really good job. But sometimes, you know, listen, we all. Chip Schaefer used to say this all the time when he was our trainer. Too smart is dumb. Sometimes you just, you got to rely on the eye test and stick with what you got.
- [36:49]
Dan Bernstein
All right, let's. I know you, you, you mentioned Jalen Smith a couple of times and it's been really interesting for me to see this poor dude has been asked to be something he's not. And that's because of the injury to, to Nick Collins that, excuse me, Zach Collins, that they, they'll be a much better team when he comes back. I didn't think that we'd get to this point in the season and I, and I see him at a game like, ooh, he, he's a decent rotational big who can do a little bit of rim protection. And who are you saying, Collins or Collins? Collins. And ideally I would like to slot Jalen Smith down, you know, cut his minutes down a little bit and just, and not ask him to do what he's being asked to do athletically because some of the three pointers that he's hitting, I would. And I don't know what's going to hold up. I think his minute load is probably asking a lot over the course of the season. And same with Vuch too, that at some point a 35 year old guy just can't be playing the minutes that he's playing. But Zach Collins coming back is is going to, going to help them more than I think people realize in this.
- [38:06]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, I agree with that.
- [38:07]
Dan Bernstein
Well, we'll see. I don't know when our, when our next update is on him, but I do like the fact that they had a plan on Kobe White. They knew what they were going to do. They weren't messing around with something as, as precarious as a calf injury as.
- [38:21]
Jason Bernstein
We saw in the finals.
- [38:22]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I think, I think. Right, but I think a broken bone in the hand. They've got a little better sense of, of what the risks are with that. But I'll be interested to see what that contribution is. So when you start looking Will at the, the distribution of minutes and the way Billy is working through all of the injuries that they've had to deal with right now and how do you start looking at the course of the season about minute loads and the good thing about going 10 or sometimes, you know, 11 or 12 guys over the course of some of these games that you, you have the opportunities for guys to earn more minutes. Does anything stand out to you as under usage over usage or where you want the balance to be so they can, they can maintain this kind of effort?
- [39:07]
Will Perdue
No, I think, I think they're doing a really good job because you, if you go back and look at the Denver game in, in altitude, coming off a double digit, not only win is but you then had to play a double overtime game, jump on a plane I would imagine do they. Did they loot. Did they gain an hour coming back to Denver? I don't the same.
- [39:32]
Dan Bernstein
I think so.
- [39:33]
Jason Bernstein
I think they're both mountain time.
- [39:34]
Dan Bernstein
I think they're both mountain time.
- [39:35]
Jason Bernstein
But.
- [39:35]
Will Perdue
Yeah, but I mean you probably got to the hotel 2 2:33am because of the fact you played a double overtime game and by the time you get out of the stadium, get to the airport, get on the plane, get to Denver. Remember also Denver's airport is not close to the city.
- [39:52]
Dan Bernstein
It's brutal.
- [39:53]
Will Perdue
Like a 30, 35 minute bus ride with no traffic. Right. So you get there like I said, between 2 and 3am you got a game that night. One guy played 30 minutes or more. That was Josh Giddy played 30. Right Boots played 29, Modest played 29. But I thought they did a really nice job of distribution of the minutes. I think that just shows, goes to show you how they're monitoring the minutes. But at the same time I think that they, they if they're going to continue to try to play at this pace, I mean you've basically scored 150 in double overtime, 130 in regulation. You're gonna have to go 10, 11 deep every given night, on any given night, sometimes every night. Because it's just the stress that you put on the body. And it's not just about the game itself. Right. It's the, the get the game in. Let's hurry up and get to the airport, let's get on the plane, let's get to Denver. Try to get your rest. I mean that, that's the part that people don't realize. Really tears down the body because you just don't have the time to recover. Right. It's kind of like the NFL guys playing on Sunday and then you see how poor of quality that Thursday night game is every week. Right.
- [41:14]
Dan Bernstein
Just to illustrate what you're talking about, I got a note sent to me from Ben Heisler, a longtime friend of the pod and he said, and I think he tweeted this to put in perspective what the Bulls did in Denver. Since 2020, the Nuggets are 19 and 3 at home when their opponent is on the second game of a back to back. And the Bulls did it after playing that two overtime game in Utah. The Nuggets had not lost a home game as a double digit favorite against a team on the second game of a back to back in almost 10 years. The last time there was an upset like that, it was when Denver was a 10 point favorite and lost to the Sixers by two on December 30, 2016.
- [42:08]
Jason Bernstein
Oh my God, that team. Just think about that Sixers team. Oh yeah, that's Tony Roton Nerlands, Noel Jalil Okafor. Oh my Lord.
- [42:21]
Dan Bernstein
That's, that's.
- [42:23]
Will Perdue
Look at him just spouting those guys off.
- [42:25]
Dan Bernstein
He does that. And I also wanted to do this. I don't know. Jason, remember when I mentioned to you last night that I had something cool that I wanted to do today?
- [42:33]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, yeah. Okay.
- [42:34]
Dan Bernstein
This is what it is. I was watching, I was watching Aaron Gordon last night.
- [42:38]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, good. We didn't even talk about him.
- [42:40]
Dan Bernstein
I know. And I was thinking about Aaron Gordon. I'm like, man, what an interesting story of this guy who is just this sort of leaper jumper, athlete who made himself into an outstanding shooter and put on all this good weight and has become a really rugged interior player as needed.
- [42:59]
Jason Bernstein
And he can still jump. Don't get me wrong, he can still fly.
- [43:02]
Dan Bernstein
So I went and I looked at his through 11 years comp. His list of comps. This list is poetry.
- [43:16]
Jason Bernstein
What is all over the place.
- [43:17]
Dan Bernstein
This list is all over the map. Of the 10 people who just by numbers, are most statistically similar to Robert Horry. So all I want.
- [43:32]
Jason Bernstein
Damn it.
- [43:32]
Dan Bernstein
I was looking at the name Robert Ori. Because he's on there. Sorry. Aaron Gordon. Robert Ori is one of the names.
- [43:37]
Jason Bernstein
I don't. Can I. I already have a name and it's a long shot, but the thing is that you said it's all over the place, so I feel like there are no bad guesses.
- [43:44]
Dan Bernstein
There's no bad guesses.
- [43:45]
Jason Bernstein
Danny Granger.
- [43:48]
Dan Bernstein
Great guess. Not on here, but all I'm going to do is I want to read the names. And then either you, Jason, or Will just first blush. I don't know if there's. There might be a story involved. There might just be. Any thought of Derek Favors, just. No, not Derek Favor. Just let me read the names. So the. 1, 2, 3. The fourth name. I said Robert Horry is on there.
- [44:14]
Jason Bernstein
Champion.
- [44:15]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, champion.
- [44:19]
Will Perdue
And.
- [44:21]
Dan Bernstein
Sort of, I would say, ahead of his time as far as skill set, probably.
- [44:27]
Jason Bernstein
All right, let's go with the name. Okay. Because you're spoiled.
- [44:30]
Dan Bernstein
Karan Butler.
- [44:31]
Jason Bernstein
Okay.
- [44:32]
Will Perdue
Underrated.
- [44:34]
Jason Bernstein
All right.
- [44:35]
Dan Bernstein
Kenyon Martin.
- [44:38]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. High flyer, high draft pick, good player, but never really, you know.
- [44:47]
Dan Bernstein
Number one overall pick. Right.
- [44:49]
Jason Bernstein
And that's what I said.
- [44:50]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. Not the only one. Not the only one on this list either. Okay. Junior Bridgman.
- [44:57]
Will Perdue
Solid all around. Really good player.
- [44:59]
Jason Bernstein
I don't know who that is. Am I too young, Mike?
- [45:02]
Will Perdue
Yes, you are.
- [45:03]
Dan Bernstein
Yes. He's best known for being the key player that came back in the Kareem Abdul Jabbar trade.
- [45:13]
Will Perdue
That's correct.
- [45:14]
Jason Bernstein
Interesting.
- [45:15]
Will Perdue
Also, remember, he. I do have a quick story for you and Dan. I'm curious if you know this or not. I just am very fortunate to have known Bridging from the time that I lived in Louisville.
- [45:28]
Dan Bernstein
He's a big business success, isn't he?
- [45:31]
Will Perdue
Yes, huge. But was.
- [45:34]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah.
- [45:35]
Will Perdue
He ended up at Louisville because his coach at Louisville had actually recruited him and had him going to ucla.
- [45:45]
Dan Bernstein
I did not know that.
- [45:47]
Will Perdue
Right. Denny Crumb was an assistant at ucla, remember, under John Wood. And he came out and recruited him in the state of Indiana and had him go into ucla. Then all of a sudden, Denny Crumb gets the Louisville job and Junior Bridgman flips and goes to Louisville and they win a national championship because of him.
- [46:12]
Dan Bernstein
Well, I did not know that. I did not. That's great. So that's where we're halfway through. It hasn't Even really gotten fun yet. Okay, the next name on here, Orlando Woolridge.
- [46:25]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, baby.
- [46:27]
Will Perdue
Oh, no, he's. He's much better than Orlando Woolridge.
- [46:31]
Dan Bernstein
I'm just saying, stat wise, that statistical comps. Woolridge legend Terry Bohr's always told the story about Jordan's rookie year. When they were working out backstage, they were still at Angel Guardian, and it was before the Multiplex and. And obviously before the Berto center. And Jordan was a rookie, and I think Terry was a. Was a young columnist, the Sun Times. And like, he came up to Orlando and he said, this is like first day of training camp. And he said, so how does it feel to have such a hot shot on your team? And Orlando said, it's not my team anymore. It's his team. Go talk to him.
- [47:10]
Jason Bernstein
Wow. That was. That was one practice to get that much respect.
- [47:13]
Dan Bernstein
Yep, one practice.
- [47:14]
Will Perdue
Was he like one of the first players that you would say was a physical specimen?
- [47:19]
Dan Bernstein
Orlando? Yeah, well, in more ways than one.
- [47:24]
Will Perdue
Famously. No.
- [47:26]
Dan Bernstein
Orlando.
- [47:28]
Will Perdue
It was that.
- [47:29]
Dan Bernstein
That's a real man. That's all I'm gonna say. But the first one, no, they were. They were ABA dudes. I mean, George McGinnis was one of those guys.
- [47:42]
Jason Bernstein
You love George McGinnis.
- [47:43]
Dan Bernstein
I. George McGinnis was unbelievable, man.
- [47:46]
Jason Bernstein
You said he was kind of LeBron before LeBron.
- [47:50]
Dan Bernstein
Yes. Orlando had no body fat at all. Nobody. I mean, just. And just that sort of V shape. Yeah, like. Like a Sean Kemp kind of look. All right, hold on. There's more on this list. Almost after Orlando. Juwan Howard.
- [48:04]
Will Perdue
Wow.
- [48:05]
Dan Bernstein
Okay, right, the next name. Cliff Levingston.
- [48:11]
Jason Bernstein
Ha.
- [48:13]
Will Perdue
Cliffy, your guy. You know, Cliffy used to be all over the league on the Jordan video, right? Where Michael did the one handed fake and Cliff fell back and fell backwards and he went around him and dunked it. But good news was that, I mean, that guy just. He was probably the first guy I ever played with that had that high a motor. Right. I mean, obviously I played with MJ and Scotty and those guys, but he. I guess you could say Cliff was kind of raw, but just because of how hard he played, he just eventually would break you down.
- [49:02]
Dan Bernstein
Next name on this list. Just it was so far. These are Aaron Gordon. Comps. Karan Butler, Kenyon Martin Jr. Bridgman, Robert Orier, Lando Woolridge. Juwan Howard. Cliff Levingston. The next name. Wayman Tisdale.
- [49:15]
Will Perdue
I wonder if Aaron Gordon knows how to play the guitar.
- [49:18]
Dan Bernstein
Not just the guitar. I think multiple instruments.
- [49:21]
Jason Bernstein
Right.
- [49:22]
Dan Bernstein
He had Wayman Tisdale put out jazz albums where he was.
- [49:25]
Will Perdue
But he won a Grammy, didn't he?
- [49:27]
Jason Bernstein
Did.
- [49:28]
Dan Bernstein
I was nominated, I think. I don't know if he won, but yeah, like he. He went right into music. And he was still doing it when he was playing, too. The last two names on the list, the. The bane of my existence. Ersan Ilya Sova.
- [49:41]
Will Perdue
Oh, my. Number nine. No way.
- [49:46]
Jason Bernstein
No, I've never seen the. I mean, I think I've seen him make two shots.
- [49:51]
Dan Bernstein
He's never made a shot.
- [49:53]
Jason Bernstein
Also, he's Bulls legend. Bulls legendary. Sova, I hope. I don't think he played a minute. He did, but he was rostered by the Chicago Bulls.
- [50:02]
Dan Bernstein
He was in the regular season. And the last name, Also a former Bull. And the aforementioned other number one overall pick, Elton Brand. Joe Smith.
- [50:15]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, lost all of his money, right.
- [50:18]
Will Perdue
I like the Elton Brand, though. I like that one. Yeah, it was good.
- [50:22]
Jason Bernstein
Didn't Joe Smith lose all his money or am I thinking the wrong one?
- [50:25]
Dan Bernstein
No, no. You know who lost all money?
- [50:27]
Jason Bernstein
Something, right? Jason.
- [50:28]
Dan Bernstein
No, it was. It was. No, the. The Chicago kid who, who went to Kentucky.
- [50:35]
Jason Bernstein
Number one overall pick.
- [50:37]
Dan Bernstein
I'll think about it. It was no.
- [50:38]
Jason Bernstein
No. 1 overall pick.
- [50:40]
Dan Bernstein
You'll figure. I know. I just thought. I just thought that list was absolutely wild.
- [50:45]
Will Perdue
When I read those, you bring up Joe Smith, right?
- [50:48]
Dan Bernstein
Yep.
- [50:48]
Will Perdue
That's when the Golden State warriors might have had the best little promotion ever.
- [50:53]
Jason Bernstein
No, it is Joe Smith. It is. Joe Smith lost $61 million in fortune.
- [50:59]
Will Perdue
Just add his name to the list. There's plenty.
- [51:01]
Jason Bernstein
But I ended up with $3,000 in his bank account.
- [51:05]
Will Perdue
I was doing a game in Oakland that. Remember they were in Oakland back then for the Golden State warriors on ESPN Radio. And during one of the timeouts, all of a sudden, here come all these people, just trot. They're trotting them out to half court and you're like, what. What is going on? Well, they had this promotion, and if your name's Joe Smith, call the Golden State Warriors. You'll get a free ticket. And we're doing this little promotion. So it was, you know, because it's like the old saying, keep up with the Smiths, right? So they literally, like, he's a garbage truck driver. It's Joe Smith.
- [51:44]
Dan Bernstein
That's cute.
- [51:45]
Will Perdue
She is a grocery store clerk. It's Joe Smith. And they had all these people with all these different jobs and they just went down the list and it's Joe Smith.
- [51:56]
Dan Bernstein
That's cute.
- [51:57]
Jason Bernstein
That's funny. One time, one time. I remember there's a segment I don't I think it might have been for a commercial, but somebody got. I think it was 10 Tom Brady's together just to discuss, like the other Tom Brady's. So that's what that reminds me of.
- [52:13]
Dan Bernstein
I've got the. The list of all the guys that are famous for losing their money in the NBA. Joe Smith, obviously, Dante West. Yeah, but that was. I mean, obviously there's other things going. Kenny Anderson lost his 63 million that he made. Vin Baker lost his fortune. Allen Iverson filed for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy. Antoine Walker. That's what I was thinking of. Antoine Walker. That was. That was due to lavish spending on family and friends, gambling, and other poor financial decisions.
- [52:42]
Jason Bernstein
Yes.
- [52:43]
Dan Bernstein
So be careful with your money, young man. Learn that lesson as well. And that is going to bring us to the OWC trivia showdown. And will you. You do not have to participate.
- [53:03]
Will Perdue
Who is this Dan Bernstein that we see here? Who is this.
- [53:08]
Jason Bernstein
Post firing Dan Bernstein? He knows he has to be a happier person because he was about to say Jason, What.
- [53:14]
Will Perdue
What happened to the old curmudgeon Dan Bernstein?
- [53:17]
Jason Bernstein
I don't know. I think I became him. I. I read the comments on YouTube. I sometimes read the comments on YouTube and they're. And they're just saying Jason is just like Dan when he was younger. And I'm. And I just go, oh, shit.
- [53:30]
Will Perdue
Am I really like, that Was that Tom Hanks movie?
- [53:33]
Dan Bernstein
Well, there was. It was. Which one? Big.
- [53:36]
Will Perdue
Big. Yeah. Am I gonna be walking through the store for. During the holidays and Dan's gonna be dancing on the plane.
- [53:44]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah.
- [53:44]
Will Perdue
With Feet on the Thing with Robert Loggia. Yes.
- [53:47]
Dan Bernstein
Yes, that would be. I know I'd probably pull something now. I got a surgically reconstructed knee. The other one shot, too. I. I could. If I tried to play Chopsticks, I'd rip in half.
- [53:57]
Will Perdue
Yeah. But I don't think any of that affects how well you cast a fishing pole.
- [54:01]
Dan Bernstein
Damn right it doesn't. You're damn right.
- [54:04]
Jason Bernstein
No, we can't get into fishing, though. We can't get into fishing.
- [54:08]
Dan Bernstein
Not even in my prime yet when it comes to that. No way. No more pictures.
- [54:12]
Jason Bernstein
No more pictures. No more pictures.
- [54:14]
Dan Bernstein
No, it's all right. I'm okay. I can show you that steelhead I got. It was eight pounder.
- [54:19]
Jason Bernstein
You did send me that picture. You should post it and tag the guy.
- [54:24]
Dan Bernstein
So, Jay, do you want me to start with my question or do you want to do yours? Sure.
- [54:28]
Jason Bernstein
I don't care. All right. Would you rather get it out of the way?
- [54:32]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. I kind of liked mine when I saw it. And it's only because something happened the other night in the NBA and that everybody was kind of showing what that might have meant. That. Stefan. Stefan. Is it Stefan or Stefan Castle?
- [54:50]
Jason Bernstein
I think it's Stefan.
- [54:51]
Dan Bernstein
Stefan Castle and Victor Wembanyama each had a triple double.
- [54:57]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [54:58]
Dan Bernstein
They were teammates with a triple double against the Golden State Warriors. This has happened. It's happened to 19 other times teammates have gone for a triple double. And of in those events, in the number of times it's happened, there is one player who was involved in four of them, one player involved in three of them, and three players involved in two of them. And those are the only names in NBA history that have been part of something like this multiple times. Okay, can you name those players?
- [55:44]
Jason Bernstein
I'm thinking. I'm going by volume here, just because the more triple doubles, you get that. So I'm going to say Westbrook.
- [55:52]
Dan Bernstein
First of all. That is absolutely. I like your reasoning, and I. And you are correct. No, that is absolutely. Your approach to that was, you know, Russell Westbrook has more than anybody else. There's a good chance at some point he's more likely to have a teammate do it.
- [56:10]
Jason Bernstein
And.
- [56:10]
Dan Bernstein
Yes.
- [56:11]
Jason Bernstein
Four times out of the 200. Whatever.
- [56:14]
Dan Bernstein
Right. And it is only. Yes. So the number. The guy who's involved four times in this is Russell Westbrook.
- [56:20]
Will Perdue
James Harden.
- [56:22]
Dan Bernstein
What would you say, Jason? I said, yo, Jokic. Jokic is the guy who was involved three times, twice with Westbrook and once in 2023. He did it on the same night that Jamal Murray did it. But Westbrook and Jokic together did it twice.
- [56:43]
Jason Bernstein
That's crazy. Yes. Will.
- [56:45]
Dan Bernstein
Said Harden, by the way, said Harden.
- [56:46]
Jason Bernstein
No, I was thinking that as well.
- [56:49]
Dan Bernstein
James Harden's name is not on here. No, he never did it.
- [56:54]
Jason Bernstein
I was thinking that as well.
- [56:57]
Will Perdue
I.
- [56:57]
Jason Bernstein
His teammates weren't great, but I think he had a couple of. Every once in a while, some. Some of his teammates had a game. Luca might as well.
- [57:09]
Dan Bernstein
No, Braun. LeBron. LeBron did it once with Westbrook in 2021.
- [57:18]
Jason Bernstein
They played.
- [57:19]
Dan Bernstein
And he did it in 2018 with Lonzo Ball.
- [57:24]
Jason Bernstein
Wow. So those are the three.
- [57:27]
Dan Bernstein
Well, no, there. There's. Now there's two more who. Who did it twice, but they. They did it together both times. Same team. Same team, same two guys. And all I'll tell you is they did it. They both had triple doubles in the same game once in 2021 and once in 2019.
- [57:54]
Jason Bernstein
I'm gonna say Giannis and Middleton.
- [57:58]
Dan Bernstein
Not a bad guess, but. No.
- [58:01]
Jason Bernstein
Because I'M thinking guys that played together for a while.
- [58:08]
Will Perdue
I would. I would not. Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobi.
- [58:16]
Jason Bernstein
Not the right time period.
- [58:18]
Dan Bernstein
No, it's two. Yeah, two. Recent.
- [58:20]
Jason Bernstein
2019 and 2021.
- [58:22]
Dan Bernstein
Yep. There's some wild names on here.
- [58:25]
Jason Bernstein
Is it gonna be like D Book and Ayton or something?
- [58:28]
Dan Bernstein
Nope.
- [58:29]
Jason Bernstein
Okay.
- [58:31]
Dan Bernstein
Nope. Both still playing.
- [58:34]
Jason Bernstein
All Stars.
- [58:36]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. Well.
- [58:37]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah. Okay. Well, that. That gives me the fact that you kind of hesitated there.
- [58:44]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I just. I don't know if one has made a couple of All Star teams or not. One's made multiple All Star teams. The other one I would include in underappreciated players that people generally don't realize. And then you play him and you're like, oh, yeah, this guy. Every time you play him, he reminds you of how good he actually is. I'm just gonna give.
- [59:08]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [59:08]
Dan Bernstein
I'm just gonna give it to you.
- [59:10]
Jason Bernstein
No.
- [59:10]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. Cause we. We're not even at your question.
- [59:12]
Jason Bernstein
Fine.
- [59:12]
Will Perdue
They're running out of time here.
- [59:14]
Jason Bernstein
Yep.
- [59:14]
Dan Bernstein
It's Bam out of bio. And Jimmy Butler.
- [59:17]
Will Perdue
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [59:19]
Jason Bernstein
Bam's a baller, man.
- [59:20]
Dan Bernstein
Yes, he is.
- [59:22]
Will Perdue
Bam.
- [59:22]
Dan Bernstein
Adebayo and Jimmy Butler. But some of the other names here. Josh Hart and Cat did it. Mason Plumlee And Dennis Smith Jr. Did it. Ja Morant and Jonas Valanchunas. Steph Curry and Draymond Green. I thought you guys were going to guess that. Paul George did it with Westbrook. Vince Carter, Jason Kidd. One of these Will your rookie. Your teammates, your rookie year. You were. You were. This is January 3rd of 1989.
- [59:56]
Will Perdue
That would have been Pippen and Jordan.
- [59:58]
Dan Bernstein
Yep. Jordan Pippen did it against the. At the Clippers or against the Clippers. You didn't get into that game. Jack Haley played in that game, and you didn't.
- [60:09]
Will Perdue
Bill Cartwright actually had a triple double one time.
- [60:11]
Jason Bernstein
I was thinking Bill Cartwright, but the.
- [60:14]
Will Perdue
Problem was the part of the triple double was 10 turnovers.
- [60:16]
Dan Bernstein
Turnovers.
- [60:17]
Will Perdue
I remember that.
- [60:19]
Dan Bernstein
And let me see, the other names. Larry Bird and Robert Parrish. Kareem and Magic. Then you got to go back to 1969. Art Harris and Lenny Wilkins. 1964, Donnie Butcher and Ray Scott. 1962, the Cincinnati Royals. Oscar Robertson. Tiny Archibald.
- [60:39]
Will Perdue
Yep.
- [60:39]
Dan Bernstein
And Bucky Buckhorn.
- [60:42]
Jason Bernstein
I was going to say Robertson and Archibald. I don't know if they played together.
- [60:46]
Dan Bernstein
All right, Jay, your turn. Fire away.
- [60:47]
Jason Bernstein
The same team. All right, my question. There's only one answer, but it's a little bit of a toughie. So since 2010, the Bulls, like, obviously Derrick Rose. Right. And really Good player for a period of time. They. And at one point they're the one seed, but they haven't really come that. All that close to winning a championship. And it's not like they've been. They've won a ton of games. And since 2010.
- [61:12]
Dan Bernstein
Right.
- [61:14]
Jason Bernstein
Who. Which Chicago Bull, since 2010 has the highest winning percentage as a Bull with a minimum games game count of 200 games?
- [61:25]
Dan Bernstein
Ooh, a minimum.
- [61:29]
Jason Bernstein
Enjoy Basketball podcast. That's Kenny Beachum's podcast. Because that's how I found Keith Bogan.
- [61:35]
Will Perdue
No, it's funny.
- [61:37]
Jason Bernstein
Have to have at least 200 games played as a bowl since.
- [61:40]
Dan Bernstein
It's funny. You said. You said Keith Bogan. His name came up when we were talking about a Coro. I was having. I was in the press room talking to Wennington and how you're saying we're.
- [61:49]
Jason Bernstein
Running out of time, and then here we go.
- [61:51]
Dan Bernstein
Sorry, I just. But I compared Isaac Coro to Keith Bogan's. That was. That was my comp. Just like the starter who, you know isn't going to score.
- [61:58]
Will Perdue
Jason, are you saying a minimum of 200 games or. This player only played minimum of 200.
- [62:03]
Jason Bernstein
Games with the Chicago Bulls, so they had to put. They had to be on the team for a good while.
- [62:10]
Will Perdue
Kirk Heinrich.
- [62:12]
Jason Bernstein
No. Good. Good. Good shout, though.
- [62:15]
Dan Bernstein
Taj Gibson.
- [62:16]
Jason Bernstein
Nope. That. That's who I thought initially.
- [62:21]
Dan Bernstein
Damn it.
- [62:21]
Jason Bernstein
I thought I had it, but you're in the right. I'll say this. You're in the right era.
- [62:26]
Will Perdue
Joe Keem.
- [62:28]
Jason Bernstein
Nope.
- [62:29]
Dan Bernstein
Luol deng.
- [62:30]
Jason Bernstein
Nope.
- [62:34]
Will Perdue
Wow.
- [62:36]
Dan Bernstein
200 games. Did Nate Robinson have 200?
- [62:39]
Jason Bernstein
It's not Nate Robinson, and it is somebody that played. It's not like he didn't play. So.
- [62:45]
Will Perdue
All right, who is it? Come on.
- [62:47]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, no, you guys are right there.
- [62:49]
Dan Bernstein
Is. Is it a. Is it a guard? No, it's a. Okay. Oh, is it mirotic?
- [62:57]
Jason Bernstein
It is not. Nicole. Mirror Touch. I don't think he played long enough with the Bulls. And he was kind of on some bad teams, too.
- [63:02]
Dan Bernstein
Damn it.
- [63:04]
Will Perdue
Bobby Portis.
- [63:06]
Jason Bernstein
No. Little. Little before then. A little before.
- [63:09]
Dan Bernstein
I don't know. Is it an American player?
- [63:12]
Jason Bernstein
Yes.
- [63:15]
Dan Bernstein
Black guy?
- [63:16]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [63:19]
Dan Bernstein
Think about it. Oh, okay. All right.
- [63:22]
Will Perdue
All right. You think about it. I have this question for you, and then we'll call it a day, all right?
- [63:25]
Dan Bernstein
I. I don't know. Jason, who is it?
- [63:27]
Jason Bernstein
Carlos Boozer. Oh.
- [63:29]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, shoot. Mr. Should have got that Joe.
- [63:34]
Jason Bernstein
He, as A Chicago Bull went 183 and 97 for a win percentage of 65.4%. That's not bad.
- [63:42]
Dan Bernstein
That's not bad at all. And now. And then. Now his kids are about to get drafted.
- [63:47]
Jason Bernstein
Pick.
- [63:48]
Will Perdue
Who is it that keeps getting called out now that has the Carlos Boozer painted on. Beard.
- [63:55]
Jason Bernstein
Oh, Jalen Brown. The hair. It's not. He made fun of it.
- [64:02]
Will Perdue
Carlos Boozer. He already is, but about to get a lot easier.
- [64:09]
Dan Bernstein
I think Carlos is doing okay for himself, but.
- [64:12]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah, okay, but. But I was going to say Jaylen Brown poked fun at it and said, that's actually. AI. That didn't happen.
- [64:20]
Will Perdue
Right.
- [64:22]
Jason Bernstein
All right. You said you had a question Will bit.
- [64:24]
Will Perdue
Yeah. So I think all of us will agree that I don't want to say the Bulls have turned a corner, but they're pointing in the right direction. Pointing.
- [64:35]
Dan Bernstein
Okay.
- [64:36]
Jason Bernstein
Correct.
- [64:36]
Will Perdue
Okay. Because they have talent, they have depth. What we've also agreed on is, is that they don't. They're lacking that guy or those guys, per se. Okay. But the question is, where is that guy? I know not a lot of people hate that term, but where is that level of play? Let's look. So change the narrative. Where is that level of player going to come from? Because I think now, because of the collective bargaining agreement, that guys just are not leaving their teams. It's just. You're not going to get somebody in free agent because it's just plain and simple. The players are always going to follow the money and they're not going to take a 20 million, 30 million, $40 million pay cut to test free agency.
- [65:39]
Dan Bernstein
Well, I'll tell you where the answer is that I. I would.
- [65:44]
Jason Bernstein
Well, like that.
- [65:45]
Dan Bernstein
I don't think it's. I. I don't think it is modest or giddy, but I do think increasingly in the NBA, it is going to be the proper development of a raw drafted talent. And I.
- [65:59]
Jason Bernstein
And that's where, say, Noah is saying, I want.
- [66:01]
Dan Bernstein
No, but I'm saying it's gonna be somebody like that. It's gonna be somebody like Giannis, who, when everybody drafted him, they're like, who's this guy? And then he, you know, he was like a big puppy and didn't know how to. It's gonna be that. That's where it's gonna come from. It's gonna be a. A Pascal Siakam. It's going to be like. I'm not saying it is a San Gay, don't get me wrong, Butler. But it's going to be. But. But more obvious. Young. Did you see when they cut last night? He looks like he's a child. I mean, he's. He literally was Kind of sitting there and looked like he was cold, and it's just like he looks like somebody's kid.
- [66:37]
Sleep Number Customer 1
That.
- [66:38]
Dan Bernstein
And I know I'm getting older, so I see it that way. He is somebody's kid. But I think that to answer your question for when Arturis Karnishovis is the guy who saw this fat kid from Serbia turn into the best player on the planet in Jokic, nobody knew. We thought, Nicole Jokic is gonna be the best player I've ever seen. It's gonna be somebody.
- [67:04]
Jason Bernstein
The best offensive center of all time.
- [67:05]
Dan Bernstein
Right? It's going to be. It's gonna be somebody like that, I think is the answer. I really do.
- [67:11]
Jason Bernstein
It's not like he's. Like, he wasn't super raw. And you think about raw talent. He was.
- [67:16]
Dan Bernstein
Nobody was.
- [67:17]
Jason Bernstein
Had innate passing ability that nobody else in the history of the NBA is possessed. I don't want to say like, Magic Johnson didn't have it, but there nobody. He needed a commitment can do it. That size is just remarkable.
- [67:29]
Dan Bernstein
Somebody had to commit to him, and he had to commit to getting in better cardiovascular shape. And. And he doesn't need to, though.
- [67:35]
Jason Bernstein
I don't even think he is. He's slow as hell. He's fat and slow. He just happens to be great. He literally stands there. He's seven feet tall. He picks the ball off the glass and throws a touchdown pass. Well, who cares about his cardiovascular system if he's putting 40, 15, and 15 on your head? It's like what Anthony Edwards said. It's like what Anthony Edwards said when the Lakers traded for Luca. They're like, he was like, I don't care if he's fat. He's putting 50 on the board.
- [68:02]
Will Perdue
And he's. He's reliable. He plays in all the games. I mean, when. When did he actually miss a lot of time because of an injury?
- [68:10]
Dan Bernstein
Well, what did Rod Beck of the Cubs used to say? You never heard a guy going on the injured list with pulled fat. And with that, we got to close this out. We could. I seriously, we could talk all day. This is so much fun, but we. We gotta. We gotta put a cap on it. And we're gonna get back and. And do it when the Bulls have finished up this road trip, when they got the Wizards coming to town. They've got the do it next and. Yeah. And the Ring of honor. That's right. You're gonna be home. When do you get home?
- [68:42]
Will Perdue
Friday, Thanksgiving, baby.
- [68:44]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, God.
- [68:46]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah. But listen forever away, because I have so much work to Do.
- [68:49]
Will Perdue
But I think, Dan, this is a good. Starting tomorrow. This is a really good. Can you look to schedule up real quick and we'll end with this. I know they got Portland, then they have Miami, then they have Washington. I can't remember after that, but I.
- [69:07]
Dan Bernstein
Think Portland, Miami, Washington, soon, New Orleans, then. Yes. Then at the Pelicans, at the Hornets, at the Pacers, then at the Magic. You got some wins in here.
- [69:21]
Will Perdue
I mean, you. You could go back, run.
- [69:24]
Jason Bernstein
Yep. Watch them lose. Watch. Watch it happen.
- [69:28]
Will Perdue
No, but here's the thing. It's. It's. It to me, I don't necessarily look at a. You know, they could go out, but I think that. Now, is there a game until you get to Orlando, Is there a game where they should not be favored before the game starts?
- [69:46]
Dan Bernstein
Probably not, no.
- [69:50]
Will Perdue
All those games, they should be favored regardless if they're at home or on the road.
- [69:55]
Dan Bernstein
Yes. Yeah, I think that's right.
- [69:58]
Jason Bernstein
He.
- [69:58]
Dan Bernstein
Wizards, Pelicans, Hornets and Pacers, depending on who's playing. If anybody's taken a rest, obviously. And the thing about the Heat game is part of the NBA cup, which they're tied, I think, for like second place in there.
- [70:10]
Will Perdue
Yeah. But I'm just saying, even the Portland games, there's. The next six games, they should be favored.
- [70:16]
Jason Bernstein
I like Portland, though.
- [70:18]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I think you're right. So the point being, if you go. If you presume they're. They're 5 and 1 and think about where they should be, it puts them right back in it.
- [70:27]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah. Also, keep an eye on Trey Murphy. Keep. Keep an eye on him because the Pelicans need draft capital. He might. He might be dealt somewhere. And that. That's a dude. I mean, 20 point per game scorer and really dynamic.
- [70:39]
Will Perdue
I like. All right, we're done with basketball. And I keep saying last thing. Fine. We've already, you know, we picked on Dan a little bit. How. You know, Mr. Smiley come at me. But, Jason, I just figured it out, man. I was sitting here during the whole thing. I'm like, you look like. And I think this is a compliment, by the way. You look like the third Ghostbuster.
- [71:06]
Dan Bernstein
Harold Ramis.
- [71:08]
Will Perdue
Yeah.
- [71:08]
Dan Bernstein
Yes. Yeah, there's a little bit of that.
- [71:11]
Will Perdue
Definitely the way he looks right now with the hair, the glasses.
- [71:15]
Jason Bernstein
I need to get a haircut as well.
- [71:16]
Dan Bernstein
Young Harold. Yeah, no, there's a little bit of young Harold Ramos there, like in stripes.
- [71:21]
Will Perdue
Yeah.
- [71:22]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, I see it.
- [71:22]
Jason Bernstein
Yeah.
- [71:25]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, definitely. You could. You could. Sure. You could definitely do worse than his level of success.
- [71:32]
Will Perdue
You know, we're gonna slide into Switzerland and slide right out. So nobody will ever know.
- [71:36]
Dan Bernstein
It's like going into Wisconsin. Nobody understands that reference either, because the drinking age in Illinois was 21. The drinking age in Wisconsin was 19, was 18, and then. And then 19. And everybody used to drive there, get drunk, and then kill themselves driving home. So they. They standardized the. The ages. But that was that reference. It's Czechoslovakia. It's like going to Wisconsin, only Chicago people knew it. All right, well, this is an absolute pleasure, man.
- [72:03]
Will Perdue
Thank you, guys. I had a blast. Anytime.
- [72:05]
Jason Bernstein
Let me know.
- [72:07]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, you're always welcome. You are absolutely always welcome, guys.
- [72:09]
Will Perdue
I hope. Listen, Jason, safe travels. Get home, and thank you. Have a great Thanksgiving, everybody. You too.
- [72:17]
Dan Bernstein
I want to mention Will Perdue. You should follow him on Twitter @will perdue, 32, and you can check out all his thoughts on these Chicago Bulls. This has been Organizations Win Championships. Like, subscribe, rate, do all of those things. We'll be back at you next week.
- [72:34]
Will Perdue
Organizations Win Championships, a Chicago Bulls podcast.
- [72:37]
Dan Bernstein
With Jason and Dan Bernstein on 312Sports.
- [72:44]
Will Perdue
Hey, Dan, you want me to call you on.