Off The Ivy: What Nico Hoerner's contract extension means for the future of the Chicago Cubs

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Dan Bernstein Unfiltered
Episode: Off The Ivy: What Nico Hoerner's contract extension means for the future of the Chicago Cubs
Date: March 27, 2026
Host: Dan Bernstein
Co-host: Cody Delmendo
Theme:
A deep dive into the Chicago Cubs’ decision to extend Nico Hoerner, exploring how this shapes the franchise going forward—both on the field and in terms of organizational culture, fan relationships, future roster planning, and the Cubs’ broader strategy compared to past “core” eras.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lack of Contract Details – Unusual Secrecy

[01:39-03:16]

• Dan opens with surprise at how few details have leaked about the Nico Hoerner extension, a departure from the usual agent-driven leaks before official team announcements.
  • “There are usually in this situation before there’s a team announcement…somebody’s got it all because usually the agent is so excited to go telling every reporter what he was able to get…but in this case it hasn’t yet and it’s different from the usual dynamic so far.” – Dan Bernstein [01:39]

2. Extension Structure & Implications

[03:16-04:24]

• Cody confirms, per The Athletic, it’s a six-year deal with no options, and Dan wonders about possible opt-outs, highlighting how the structure reflects a longer-term, team-friendly level of commitment.

  • “Is he locked? … That’s an incredibly team friendly deal. And if they were able to work something similar with Horner, it says something about … team culture or buy-in … this is Cub for life essentially.” – Dan Bernstein [03:17]

• They break down the Cubs’ current core: Bregman, Swanson, Horner under contract, Bush under team control—allowing stability in the infield until at least 2029.

3. Marketing Windfall & Fan Relationship

[05:03-06:51]

• The stability of the roster is hailed as a huge win for the marketing department after years of turnover. This enables sustained player branding and fan identification, which was lacking in recent years.

  • “It’s a dream for a marketer to have likable, telegenic players under contract on a good team…popular, good players under contract makes everyone’s job incredibly easy.” – Dan Bernstein [05:04]

• Both note how the past few seasons were tough for fans unsure which jersey to buy or which players would still be around.

• Cody adds this stability even helps content creators and new fans to the podcast, as familiar names reach more people.

4. Shift from the 2016 Core

[15:57-18:54]

• The hosts compare the current approach to the previous generation (Bryant, Schwarber, Baez, etc.), noting the Cubs are now actively committing to cornerstone players rather than letting their talent walk.

  • “They didn’t invest in [the 2016 core], they didn’t create a core. And now they are, which is fascinating to me… They are doing it now.” – Dan Bernstein [15:57]

• Cody highlights that although some stars (like Rizzo) did get early extensions, this new strategy is more about building a diversified and sustainable roster.

5. National Perception of Nico Hoerner

[11:17-15:22]

• Discussion on Horner’s underrated profile nationally despite his high value by advanced metrics:
  • “I think he’s one of the most underrated baseball players in the league… MLB Network…didn’t even have him [in the] top 100 list this year.” – Cody Delmendo [11:17]
  • Dan reads off star players (Gunnar Henderson, Matt Olson) who produced less WAR than Horner last year, driving the point home.

6. Roster Planning & Trade Speculation

[18:54-22:23]

• Evaluation of the Cubs’ future approach at the trade deadline—will they finally “go all-in” for 2026 if the team proves to be a true contender?

  • Cody wonders: “If this team looks like maybe they have one hole, maybe two holes, will they go all in and be willing to give away some of that prospect capital that they have?” [19:17]

• Dan notes that trading prospects at peak value is a key organizational skill and the Cubs are positioned to leverage this better than in previous eras.

7. The Matt Shaw Controversy

[22:23-29:45]

• Dan expresses discomfort rooting for Matt Shaw due to the player's association with controversial political groups and figures.

  • “I hate rooting for him. I don't like him. I don't like what he’s chosen to represent…” – Dan Bernstein [22:23]
  • “If you want to hang out with white nationalists and celebrate white nationalism, you’re an asshole. And I don’t want to root for you.” – Dan Bernstein [25:43]

• Cody takes a more cautious approach, preferring to judge Shaw mostly by his on-field conduct unless future actions warrant further discussion.

  • “For me, all I can do is go off what I’ve seen… I just don’t want to have to talk about it unless he does or says something that takes it to another level.” – Cody Delmendo [23:48]

• Both agree it complicates fandom and the “likability” fabric for the Cubs, a notable contrast given the positive feelings around the current core.

8. Looking Ahead: Roster Depth, Outfield & Prospects

[29:47-31:06]

• The conversation shifts to the Cubs’ future and depth in the corner outfield and how prospect performance (e.g., Alcantara, Conrad) could affect trade value and team needs.

• Dan and Cody debate Shaw’s true positional fit and consensus emerges that his pathway to playing time may be blocked; making him more expendable in a trade.

9. Closing Thoughts & Optimism

[31:07-32:56]

• Dan and Cody circle back to the big picture: a stable, likable core is good for the franchise and the fans.
  • “I love the fact that the Cubs are committing to a tough, smart, likable core of players…can’t wait to hear the details of the deal…this kind of old-fashioned commitment to a core is really, really good.” – Dan Bernstein [31:07]
• Brief optimism about Michael Bush and his all-star potential for the season.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On stability and marketing:

  • Dan Bernstein, [05:04]:
    “When you have non-moving parts in an organization, it’s a dream for a marketer… popular, good players under contract makes everyone’s job incredibly easy.”

• On Hoerner being underrated:

  • Cody Delmendo, [11:17]:
    “He’s one of the most underrated baseball players in the league… they didn’t even have [Nico Horner] on the [MLB Top 100] list.”
  • Dan Bernstein, [13:34]:
    “They also all were less valuable than Nico Horner last year. That’s a list of the people behind…Nico Horner on the Fangraphs WAR listing.”

• On the shift from the 2016 core:

  • Dan Bernstein, [15:57]:
    “They didn’t invest in it, they didn’t create a core. And now they are, which is fascinating to me.”

• On roster planning and risk:

  • Cody Delmendo, [19:17]:
    “If this team… looks like maybe they have one hole, maybe two holes, will they go all in and be willing to give away some of that prospect capital that they have?”

• On the Matt Shaw off-field controversy:

  • Dan Bernstein, [25:43]:
    “If you want to go hang out with white nationalists and celebrate white nationalism, you’re an asshole. And I don’t want to root for you.”
  • Cody Delmendo, [23:48]:
    “Did I like that he went to Turning Point in the WI in the off season? Largely, no…but mostly because it now forces fans to have to just like, pick a side…”

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:39 – Start of contract details discussion
• 03:16 – Confirmation of six-year structure, implications of no options/opt-outs
• 05:03 – The Cubs marketing windfall and fans’ comfort buying jerseys
• 09:09 – Review of MLB’s top jersey sales, revealing PCA’s place and Horner’s local impact
• 11:17-15:22 – Horner’s underrated status nationally, WAR comparative breakdown
• 15:57 – Shift from the post-2016 core to a new approach
• 19:17 – Deadline and trade philosophy discussion for 2026
• 22:23 – Matt Shaw’s off-field controversy and its effect on fan relationships
• 29:47 – Depth, prospect value, and outfield planning
• 31:07 – Conclusion: Cubs’ commitment to core and positive outlook

---

Summary

This episode of Off The Ivy offers a thorough, honest conversation about the impact of Nico Hoerner's contract extension on the Chicago Cubs organization. Dan and Cody celebrate the positive shift toward organizational stability and player continuity, highlighting both the fan and business benefits. They discuss the national perception gap regarding Horner’s value and deep-dive into how the current Cubs core philosophy marks a distinct change from the 2016 team. The episode doesn’t shy away from hard conversations either—particularly regarding Matt Shaw’s controversies and how off-field choices affect fan emotional investment. The show closes with optimism about the future of the Cubs as a franchise finally building a sustained, marketable, and (mostly) likable core.

Transcript

[Empower Advertiser]

Say you've always wanted to see your favorite team from the best seats in the house. Here's the thing. If you invest well, you could do things like that. With Empower, you can get your money working for you so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to splurge at certain moments? Jet setting off to see your team play at one of the most iconic stadiums or getting your favorite player's super rare autographed one of one sports card. So use Empower to help you get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored this

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Geico Commercial Auto Insurance Host]

I'm here on the job site with Dale who's a framing contractor.

[Dan Bernstein]

Hey, good morning.

[Geico Commercial Auto Insurance Host]

Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yep, they sure are.

[Geico Commercial Auto Insurance Host]

We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs all in one place with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's all right.

[Geico Commercial Auto Insurance Host]

We're so far up here.

[Dan Bernstein]

Look at me. Take a deep breath.

[Geico Commercial Auto Insurance Host]

I'm good. So good.

[Dan Bernstein]

Get a commercial auto insurance quote [e-mail] and see how much you could save.

[Cody Delmendo]

It feels good to Geico off the Ivy a Chicago Cubs podcast with Dan Bernstein, Matt Abaticoa and CODY Delmendo on three. One, two. Foreign.

[Dan Bernstein]

You've got us here on 312. It is off the Ivy. I'm Dan Bernstein. That's Cody Delmendo. Matt Abaticola is on vacation. I have to tell you I am a little surprised that we have not seen more details on the Nico Horner contract extension that there are usually in this situation before there is a team announcement, before there is a press conference, somebody's got it all because usually the agent is. Is so excited to go telling every reporter what he was able to get she or what they were able to get for their client that it all comes out. In this case it hasn't yet and it's. It's different from the usual dynamic so far.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, it's kind of weird because Pete Carl Armstrong's was kind of the same. Right. It came out on like over the weekend and then, and then the, the contract details then fully come out and was it like the next day or maybe even the day after? So I, I will say that we will probably get the information this weekend but I am surprised especially for Nico Horner that it didn't come out sooner just because first off the, the guy who broke it, Michael Cerami and the fact that this has been a talking point all off season going into to going into yesterday. So it's exciting time. But I am intrigued to see what this contract is. We were set at the end of yesterday's show six year deal. I was reading the Athletic this morning. Patrick Mooney confirmed it. There's no options.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Cody Delmendo]

So.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well the key, the key to me isn't necessarily options at the end. It would be opt outs along the way. You know, does he have a chance? Is he locked like the, the PCA deal? He's a Cub man. There isn't like after a year of this threshold or that threshold or he is going to be able to, to work himself into free looks at the market. That that's an incredibly team friend friendly deal. And if they were able to work something similar with Horner it says something about, about whatever you the cliched aspect of, of team culture or buy in if there is this commitment to this hell, the whole infield right now if you look at, you know, Bregman is three years for real. Right. At a minimum. Swanson's here through 29. Horner's here for his career. He's 28 now for 634. This. That's it. That's Cub for life essentially. And Bush is still on his rookie arrangement where they've got team control through the ARB years here through what 28 or 29.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, yeah, I believe I, I can look up Michael Bush because I'm not for sure off top of my head but I thought he was at least through 2030 because he made his debut in 2024. So he's just like this is his third full major league season. I know he debuted with the Dodgers like late the year before so I, you know how team control works.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. But he was still technically a rookie, right?

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah. So I'll look it up right now.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I'm just. Because it, this, this is from now, you know who's celebrating today right now at Clark and Addison? The marketing department.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm not kidding. When you some of the, the hardest things that a marketing department has to do when it comes to who are we gonna put in campaigns, when are we gonna actually pay the money to print the pictures that hang off the street signs and that hang on the outside of the park and everything you do with your TV deals. When you have non moving parts in an organization, it's a dream for a marketer to have likable, telegenic players under contract on a good team that you can say, hey, come out to the ballpark and see any one of these who might be your kid's favorite player. From jersey sales to Christmas presents. I'm just thinking every aspect of marketing when you have popular, good players under contract makes everyone's job incredibly easy. Not, not that it is an easy job, but compared to what most people do in sports with so much player movement to have, that is a godsend.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, I completely agree. Even for people like me and you doing the podcast game because there's going to be familiar names and to reach people who haven't found this show yet, putting PCA or Pico Armstrong, Michael Bush, a lot of these names, putting them in the headline for potential viewers that haven't found the show yet, like those are going to be popular names. So it, it helps.

[Dan Bernstein]

Both.

[Cody Delmendo]

Both.

[Dan Bernstein]

I wasn't even thinking selfishly, I know you're, of course you're right. But that, that's the way your mind works and that's why you're, that's why you do the things that you do and I don't because, you know, I wasn't even thinking that way. I was thinking more from a team side perspective.

[Cody Delmendo]

Well, that, that, that's fine too. But, but I think that it, yeah, it is very cool. And you know, from a, just a pure fan perspective with marketing, I guess you just looking at, from a fan, there was a really long period there where you just didn't, you didn't know if you should go buy a Cubs jersey. And when you did, you were probably buying someone from the old core from 2016 or you were getting, you know, one of the old school guys, the hall of Famers was Samberg or Sano or something like that. Someone who was a lifer here or had played a major impact. There was, it was a short period, I would say probably from, you know, I, I think that this trend or this feeling probably was in, it began in 2020 or maybe after 2019 and went through 2022, maybe all the way through 2023, because, you know, Cody Bellinger was probably the best player on the 23 team. And everyone thought that that was going to be a one year thing turned into a two year thing, but there, there was no long term guys. You know, I, I remember when Christopher Morrell was one of the more popular jerseys I saw at Wrigley Field. Just because he had some really fun moments. He smiled a lot. He always like shook the hand of the umpire when he came up to the plate for the first time. Like he had a cool vibe. Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, there are also great cutaways of him too with like the deep breaths and you would, you would he just. He. Yeah, he was an ex. He is an expressive person player.

[Cody Delmendo]

Right. And. And that's something the team lacked for a long time before he came up. But then he had a couple good seasons and then really fell off. They trade him. And last year, you know that this is last year was the first year where I felt like, okay, most young fans are wearing a Pete Crow Armstrong or a Nico Horner jersey at Wrigley if they're not wearing some, someone from the 2016 core. I feel like last year I saw more Horner, more pca. You can throw in Dan because he had been here for, for a few years. Ian, I see a lot of Ian Haps because he's been here for a long time. But PCA outdone or outdid everyone last year. And with Horner now going to be here for a lot longer, I feel like I'm going to see that. That uptick a little bit too.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I just saw for the first time that list of the, the most popular jersey list actually just came out. I don't know if you saw that. And I just started scanning to see exactly where PCA was on the list. So I just saw this today on it's your top 20 right now of jersey sales was released yesterday by MLB. Okay, so you've got. This is in order right now. Sh. Otani is number one, Yoshinobu Yamamoto is number two. Then it's Aaron Judge, Cal Raleigh, Mookie Betts, Nolan Arenado.

[Cody Delmendo]

That's interesting.

[Dan Bernstein]

I thought so too. So then, then another Dodger, then Freddy Freeman. A lot of people want that Pete Alonzo, Orioles jersey. That's next. Then Roman Anthony, who's going to be a problem.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yes, I agree.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Then pca. So PCA is well represented there in your. These are worldwide jersey sales because this, that's obviously, you know, you're going to have the effect of a massive populace on the other side of the Pacific who's buying a lot of the Dodger. Stuff and Ohtani, Yamamoto, etc. But then you got PCA Schwarber. Kike Hernandez is next. I mean, a rising Dodgers tide is lifting all ships, including that of Kike Hernandez, Bryce Harper, Juan Soto, Vlad Jr, Lindor Acuna, Skeens, Josh Naylor, Attaway, Big Baby, and Christian Yellich. I love Josh Naylor. I just think he's awesome. I just. I think he's. He's easy to root for, so that's good for good for pca. And Nico is going to see his number rise, certainly locally, regionally, perhaps not internationally, but it's. It's definitely good for the Cubs people selling it.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, he's definitely going to sell a lot more jerseys locally or in just the general region of where Chicago is.

[Dan Bernstein]

He's.

[Cody Delmendo]

He's not a popular player like the ones you just mentioned. And I said on yesterday's pod that I think he's one of the most underrated baseball players in the league.

[Dan Bernstein]

Now, when you say that, though, because everybody's going to be on me and say, all right, Bernstein, call him out.

[Cody Delmendo]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Underrated by whom?

[Cody Delmendo]

I think by national talking heads.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Cody Delmendo]

Like, they don't talk about him enough. I think it was. I think it's bad that they didn't even ask him to go play in the World Baseball Classic, but they asked Bryce Train. I think Bryce Turing is. Is a really good second baseman probably right there with Nico as far as the top two. But for them to not even ask him, I, I didn't. I don't think that that's. I don't like that. I feel like he's worthy of that, you know, and that. That's a whole nother rabbit hole I could go down. But as far as defense, as far as bat the ball skills, all these, all these things we talked about in yesterday's pod, I just think that he doesn't get enough credit. And I think it's largely because he's. He's not a power guy and he. He's not flashy like a pca. So he's hard to market, in a way, nationally. Just not talked about enough. I mean, MLB Network on their top 100 list this year didn't even have him on it. Of the top 100 players in baseball, Nico Horner wasn't on that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. Okay, now that. See, that's what you should have told me first. I probably should have, because that's just wrong now. Right. Let me. I'm going to. I'm going to read a list here, and you tell me what the following people have in common. Okay. Okay, tell me the following people have in common. Gunner Henderson, Matt Olson, Alejandro Kirk, Cattel, Marte Jr. Caminero, Kyle Tucker, Bryce Tarang, Jazz Chisholm and Ellie De La Cruz.

[Cody Delmendo]

But they all have in common.

[Dan Bernstein]

What are these. What do these players all have in common to the point that we're making? Let me see if you, if you. Because that's pretty. Would you agree that's a pretty good list.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah. All those guys are All Stars, I believe. I think all the names you mentioned, they're all. They've all been All Stars or are in the all Star conversation.

[Dan Bernstein]

They also all were less valuable than Nico Horner last year.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's a list of the people behind. Immediately behind Nico Horner on the fan graphs. WAR listening.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, but I'm a fan graphs guy too. But for Baseball Reference, war. If you're one of those guys, he was. He was a six WAR player.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Six. Two. There's a. Well, that. That tells you a lot of the difference about how they wait and positionally weight WAR differently.

[Cody Delmendo]

Sure. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because that, that'll tell him He's. He's. He's 6.2 wins above a replacement level player per Baseball Reference at second base because of. In. Because WAR is indeed positional. But I just, I generally go with F WAR personally because I like to keep the standard. It's kind of an arbitrary standard. I can't tell you right now mathematically what I like about the calculation of their war. It's just the one that I call up easier on my computer.

[Cody Delmendo]

But Photographs is also an easier website to manage. Baseball Reference needs to update their website like 10 years ago. Like they're 10 years behind on this, you know.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yep. No, it gets messy and it slows down. Sometimes times it'll run videos you don't want. But. But I agree that this is. When you look at Horner, looking at the three elements that go into WAR about runs above average as a base runner, as an offensive player and as a defensive player, being positive on every single one of those is a good way to. To drive that number higher. So, yeah, I'll grant you that. I. I will say if I. You. Because usually I challenge underrated. Overrated. But. But in large part I do think that he's slipping through the cracks just because he isn't a spectacular highlight kind of player.

[Cody Delmendo]

Exactly. And that's basically what I'm saying. It's not to put down other guys. His position at all really. Again, I think Tarang is right there with him. In terms of, you want to talk about the best second baseman in the National League or baseball? Those two guys to me are right there together. But Nico just doesn't get enough credit. And I just think it's because he doesn't hit a lot of homers and he doesn't, he's not flashy. So that doesn't mean that he's, that he doesn't deserve the higher praise at all. He deserves it.

[Dan Bernstein]

The question that I have now, now that you've got an infield of Bregman, Swanson, Horner and Bush, you mentioned the 2016 core, which I don't know if we can really call it that because they didn't invest in it, they didn't create a core. And now they are, which is fascinating to me. They, they, they were like, you know what? We're not, they could have extended Bryant. They let the Rockies do it. They could have anything. They let Schwarber go, they let Baez go, the whole thing. Like, they didn't do that. And if you think that, you know, maybe Covid had something to do with that, whatever, but they are, do, they are doing it now. And if Jed Hoyer weren't 52, I would think this is the kind of thing an older executive is like, here you go. Here is my legacy. I'm, I'm, I'm deuces, I'm playing golf.

[Cody Delmendo]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

But, but he's 52, so this, this, he's, he's locking in your Cubs for a while.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, I, I will say, you know, they, they did give Anthony Rizzo that early extension back in the day, which turned out to be a very team friendly deal. It kind of reminds me of Pete Car Armstrong's now. Like, they bought out all those arbitration years and stuff. We'll see how that plays out for him once he hit it hits his 30s and we're talking about his future with the Cubs again. But yeah, I mean, Swanson, he wasn't a homegrown player, but you, you brought him in here to be a leader back in 2023, and he's here through 2029. You just extended Horner and you got Bregman for five more years. Now you gotta figure out what you're gonna do with Hap and say Suzuki before the end.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think Hap's gone, don't you?

[Cody Delmendo]

I, I do generally think that one of the two are gone, but I would lean more so Hap. But yeah, I, I, I guess you could say that if when you explain it the way you did. I understand what you mean by it. It's just the fact that they were all homegrown players. So it's a lot different than, than this particular team. Like right, they paid for Swanson, they traded for Bush, you know, paid for Bregman. Nico is a homegrown player and like I said yesterday, I think PCA is more of a homegrown player than like what Technically he's not because he was traded from the Mets, but you know, haps a homegrown player. Say you, you got on a really team friendly deal. It turned out to be five years, 85 million is just been a steal for them in that. So the way they've built this team is certainly a lot different than the Theo Epstein core because it was just all guys that they drafted and developed and you know, mixed in with some trades. You know, Addison Russell was a trade they traded for Jake Arietta, paid for John, John Lester.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Cody Delmendo]

But like the core, like the core memorable pieces Bryant and, and Schwarber and, and so many other names that I'm blanking on at the current moment. So the, the way they built it is different for sure. But yeah, this, this next era, this new era, the peak core, Armstrong, Nico, Horner, Dansby, Swanson era, whatever you want to call, does kind of feel like Jed's like this is, this is, this is my hand now they have to go and do their job. And it will be fascinating to see how far they're willing to go at the trade deadline. Because when you look back at the trade deadline last year you got the famous Carter Hawkins quote talking about thinking about 2032, right? And so if this team is in first place in the NL Central and one of the top three records in baseball and, and this team looks like maybe they have one hole, maybe two holes, will they go all in and be willing to give away some of that prospect capital that they have, which entering the season isn't exactly highly touted, but could that change between now and then? I think so. They, they need Ethan Conrad to get on the field and perform. They need some of these other guys that have kind of been hurt. You know, they need Triantos to, you know, kind of bounce back. They need Alcantara to show some value, like he was a top 100 prospect at one point. They need some of those guys to increase their value. But if they're going to be willing to make the big move that they didn't make last year. Last year I gave them a break after the news came out that you know, teams were asking for Cade Horton and Matt Shaw for Mackenzie Gore and, like, just ridiculous trades that I'm glad the Cubs didn't make. I feel. I feel like the market's going to be similar this year because of that impending lockout and no one wanting to give away their. Their cheap, you know, controllable talent. But if. If the Cubs feel like they're, you know, going for it, will they actually do it? Is a big question to me right now. That's why I posed the question about what they're going to do with Matt Shaw.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, I was going to get to that. The first thing I will say is they did trade Owen Casey.

[Cody Delmendo]

That's true. That's true.

[Dan Bernstein]

And he's going to be good. I think at the very least, he's going to provide some pop, and he's going to get every opportunity to do that and lots of playing time. He's going to be able to work through some rookie difficulties, but you can't sweat that. You can't be like, hey, look at this. Owen Casey. I can't believe it. You know, you. You got to understand that that's okay, that, that you. You develop some of these guys to

[Cody Delmendo]

make these moves, and they need Edward Cabrera to be what they. They think he can be.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right? And when you say, you know, you need these guys to rebuild their value or re. Establish.

[Cody Delmendo]

I.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's. I love giving agency to the player, and I love putting it on the player, but I also put it on the organization. When it comes to young players, that. That's development, and that's where that. That's the economic power of development is to make something more valuable than it otherwise would be and be able to understand, you know, your players better than somebody else. And when somebody's really rolling and you can say, hey, hey, this is. This is just the start, but, you know, it's not. And you know that we better move this. Move this guy. Now, it used to be like trading with the Braves or trading with the Cardinals when they would sell high on somebody. And if the Cubs can start doing that with some of these prospects that make a name for themselves, you know, that's. That's the game. That, That's. That's really organizational Major League Baseball at this point. And if the Cubs are good at it, it certainly augurs well for the future. Now, you said Matt Shaw. Let me just say this. I hate rooting for him. I. I do. I. I don't like him. I don't. I don't like what he's chosen to represent. And I don't like his friends. I don't enjoy having to. I just don't enjoy having to root for him. And, and I know that there are clubhouses filled with people that I probably wouldn't want to hang out with and, and wouldn't enjoy rooting for if I knew more about him. I get that. I'm not naive. But the fact that he's embraced what he's embraced specifically, if any, if they want to trade him for a bag of balls, that's fine. And, and make it another organization' he wants to miss games to go pal around with Erica Kirk. Enjoy. Have fun with that. Because I'm it. I, I think it sucks to have to have that, that kind of cognitive dissonance when you're rooting for an and if, if, if this means that he means less to the Cubs at some point, I'm fine with that.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah. So here, here, I'll just give you my thoughts on this because I've never actually talk to you about that situation. Yeah. This is the, the, the act of what he did last offseason. And even if you go back to the end of the year where he went to the, whatever you want to

[Dan Bernstein]

call it, the, the pep rally.

[Cody Delmendo]

Sure. You want to call it that. People call it a funeral. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Funerals generally don't have fireworks and rock

[Cody Delmendo]

music, but sure, yes, the funerals I've

[Dan Bernstein]

been to at least have.

[Cody Delmendo]

Not the ones that I, I'm going

[Dan Bernstein]

to the wrong kinds of people. Funerals.

[Cody Delmendo]

Not the ones that I've been to either. For me, all I can do is go off what I've seen. Now, did I like that he went to Turning Point in the WI in the off season? Largely, no. But mostly because it now forces fans to have to just like, pick a side because of the, like, how our society is so polarized by politics right now. And there obviously there are a lot of reasons for that. So that's mostly the reason why I'm, I'm not a fan of it. Because when I listen to him talk in interviews that he does with Marquis or whoever, when I just look at his past, overall, he looks like he's a pretty decent person. So whenever all that came out, it was like, it was surprising to me. So the best way I can explain this from, from my perspective is that I just don't want to have to talk about it unless he does some says something or does something that like, takes it to another level. Because when you said on DBU months ago I agreed with some of it, but not all of it. And what I agreed with is the fact that it kind of just. It sets a tone and it. And it forces fans to have to. To choose a side and, and maybe it wouldn't be like that if our political climate wasn't so polarizing right now, but it is.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I think that's a cop out. I just. I. I just think it's fairly simple. I mean, I. I don't. I just think we all have the bandwidth to understand what's going on here, and I think we can just make decisions, as I always have. I can. I can make decisions based on what I know about you. And if you want to go hang out with white nationalists and celebrate white nationalism, you're an asshole. So. And I don't want to root for you. I just. I just think it's very simple. But you. But I do. That's your. I do want the Cubs to win. Right. I just. I don't think it's very controversial to say. I don't. I don't like white supremacy.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, yeah, no, I hear what you're saying, and I'm. Again, it's a very polarizing topic. And. Yeah, you are. You are so much better at talking about this stuff than me.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's really easy. But that's the thing. But that's why I got excited about, like, I like Nico Horner and I like Alex Bregman and a lot of these guys, you know, so if he wants to choose to do that, cool, go ahead and do that and have fun. If you want to go hang with Erica Kirk, enjoy. I'm not stopping anybody. It's free will. Go ahead and do it. But it's. But I'm allowed to have an opinion. That's all. Our job is to have opinions. And my opinion is if you like hanging with assholes, you're an asshole. And it makes it. And it makes it very hard for me to root for good things for you. That's all.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, yeah, that's. And that's. That's fair. And you're. You're not the only one who feels that way. Based off what I've read on online and it, like, I just let people feel how they want to feel. And you have that. You have that right. I don't.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, it's you. And you. You feel. You feel, too. But for me, I want. I want the Cubs to win. I want. Every time a Cub comes up there, ideally, and I know it's impossible. Like, I say, I'm not naive. I'm not naive. It's just usually you find all this stuff out after they've retired. You know, it's pretty rare for like a 24 year old person to be like, hey, you're rooting for an asshole and I'm a proud asshole and root for me. Okay? At least we know. All right? I can make my decisions. I can figure it out. It's up to me to determine how I feel about it. And if it complicates my feelings, that's not really his problem. If he wants to go live his life, cool. All right. We're all good here. Everything's all good. Like I say, depending on how you look at your team and what your team means to you, it would, it would just suck a whole lot less if. When, when it's. When you're. The players that you want to win are likable. That's all.

[Cody Delmendo]

That's fair. And that's fair. Again, with, with what I was saying is more of like he hasn't represented the Cubs and outside of going because again, I don't necessarily like that he went like during the season, like in September last year because you're, you're in a middle of a division race, all these things like that. That wasn't a good look. I didn't like that. But as far as how he has represented the Cubs, outside of that, I think he has done a good job of that. So I, I want to look, I want to see the good in this or good in him. And that's just because of who I am more than anything else. So. Yeah, unless he says something or goes online or something and, and, and posts some crazy that, that I'm definitely opposed to, then like it. I'm holding out my hope that okay, he's actually the kind of person that I think he is. So.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, I would say read, read, read the text of his speech. That's. I would say start, start there and okay. And, and I, and I. But that's, I'm not, that's an argument for a different time. But I think if in fact this commitment to this culture core makes him more tradable, that's, that's a, that's a win. Win for people who love the Cubs and, and, and, and actually don't love white supremacy. So I think that Venn diagram is probably pretty big.

[Cody Delmendo]

Sure. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

At least I hope.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah. It should be. Right. You. From a baseball perspective, you. If he kind of takes off this year offensively, he definitely becomes an asset. But I Am wondering how the Cubs view corner outfield Going into 2027 as of this moment because yeah they have, you know, whether they still believe in Kevin Alcantara or if Ethan Conrad, their first round pick last year, you know, kind of shows out in the minors this year or you know they have a few other names that you know, maybe they believe in but I don't think they're going to be immediately available in 2027 outside of Alcantara. But he still has so much to prove and yeah, I, I, I think

[Dan Bernstein]

most full time major leaguer yet, you know.

[Cody Delmendo]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

And what I want, when you say quarter outfield, you know what I want home runs. I, I want, I want guys to get a lot more home runs.

[Cody Delmendo]

Right. And I don't know if Shaw is going to be that, you know, like I, that's, that's probably the, the one con if you were to roll with Shaw as a corner outfielder because he's

[Dan Bernstein]

not a corner outfielder, he's an infielder.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, yeah. I would agree that he's more of a, you know, more of an infielder than an outfielder but he'd, yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

And maybe a team will look at him that way but it seems like he's blocked third, blocked it short, blocked at second, blocked at first.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

You got to get Ballesteros is bat in the lineup. You know he's going to stick around too. It looks like he's going to be part of this for a while. But bottom line, it's the, I love the fact that the Cubs are committing to the, to a tough, smart, likable core of players. You've got a, you got a third baseman, shortstop, second baseman, center fielder, first baseman and then we'll see what happens with catcher this year. You know, maybe that becomes a non moving piece but it's, I can't wait to hear the details of the deal and unless and until we find out that there's all kinds of opt outs built into this thing. I think this kind of old fashioned commitment to a core is really, really good.

[Cody Delmendo]

Yeah, yeah. No, and, and I think fans are just, they know who they can go buy Jersey for. That's fun.

[Dan Bernstein]

That brings it around to where we started. Like I said, there's. They're starting the weekend early in the Cubs marketing department right now. Yeah, they should, they should be, they should be popping expensive champagne in those hallways right now.

[Cody Delmendo]

One more thing. My, we were talking about Michael Bush earlier. I did when I looked it up. He, his contract or his team control is through 2029. So he's going to be here for, through the rest of the decade basically. And he had a good game yesterday. So if there's any silver lining from yesterday's loss, just I think him having a good game is, is a sign of good things to come for him this year. My prediction for him this year was he was going to make an all, make the All Star team. So I'm optimistic.

[Dan Bernstein]

That means hot start. It doesn't necessarily mean that to make an All Star team as we know that that's a, that's a first half award.

[Cody Delmendo]

Sure. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

That, that, that, that rewards you for being really, really good to start the

[Cody Delmendo]

season and you have to be popular with the fans.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. And I, I don't think that's out of the question. That is off the Ivy for today, Friday. That's Cody Delmendo. I'm Dan Bursty. Make this a habit. Make this a Cubs habit. For whatever reason, we're going to be all over it. No matter what happens, wins, losses, signings, we're here for you every single weekday. You can come hang out and get a reset on all things Cubs because that's what we're here to do here. On 312 sports off the ivy, a

[Cody Delmendo]

Chicago Cubs podcast with Dan Bernstein, Matt Abaticola and Cody Delmendo on Three One Two Sports. Support is available 247 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help because a great trip starts with the right support.