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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [00:22]
B
Support is available 24, 7 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support.
- [00:38]
A
Organizations Win Championships A Chicago Bulls podcast with Jason and dan Bernstein on 312 Sports.
- [00:48]
B
Well, the world of the Chicago Bulls is certainly different than it was when the last time we convened for Organizations Win Championships. This is episode number 131, Dan and Jason Bernstein. And this is now finally and belatedly a tank. And I've been back calling up tankathon.com and I keep.
- [01:14]
A
I got the Bulls getting the number one overall pick in three tries.
- [01:17]
B
Three? Yeah, that's not.
- [01:20]
A
They went up to number three, then they went up to number two, then they went up to number one. Swear to God.
- [01:25]
B
Those are all upsets. I was getting like 10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11. I finally got four.
- [01:32]
A
Four wouldn't be bad either.
- [01:33]
B
I mean, no, it's not great, but that's rather top three. We know where we are. We know what they're doing. It's probably this year and next year at this rate. I don't. I don't really think this is going to be a competitive squad next year, but they're what we're seeing right now.
- [01:56]
A
It's tough.
- [01:56]
B
Hold on.
- [01:57]
A
It's tough to say that because that's eating up two years of Giddy's contract and when he's supposed to be your guy, you would expect for at least three out of the four years they're competitive for a playoff spot. If playoff. Not playing playoff spot. If Giddy's your guy.
- [02:17]
B
I hope you're right. I just think they've got a long way to go to get there.
- [02:21]
A
That's okay. And that's okay. I don't mind. I don't. Glad that they chose the direction. I'm holding out hope that they decided to do this this late because this draft is so good. I. But the only thing is that with the lottery, you have no idea. So it's a bit. It is very much belated. And that being said, I know you hate when people say that. I like.
- [02:46]
B
No, I hate when you say it.
- [02:49]
A
That being said, I've thoroughly enjoyed watching these guys because you love bums and.
- [02:58]
B
You love bad basketball.
- [03:00]
A
First of all, not everybody is a bum that they got in the trade.
- [03:04]
B
No, I know that. But you like chaos.
- [03:08]
A
I love chaos. This is so fun. I love Nick Richards.
- [03:12]
B
All right, let's hold our opinions on some of the individual players because we're going to run down a list here. I just think there's a couple things that are obvious. They are out of shape. They're out of Billy Donovan shape. Yeah, clearly that these guys playing heavy minutes are not ready to play these games.
- [03:28]
A
And I was watching a Timberwolves clip earlier about how guys were saying that sometimes IO was running too fast for their break. We didn't even discuss that trade because that happened after our last episode. So I think everyone knows that Chicago's own Iodosumu was was traded to Minnesota. And the Bulls received Rob Dillingham and Leonard Miller and a whole bunch of second round picks. And the Bulls also gave up Julian Phillips. So I think he looks great on the timberwolves. He had 21 the other night. He's exactly what they needed. And when I was watching some of his highlights, it really made me realize how good he can be on a good team when he has those guys around him and he looks really, really, really tough. That team needed a guy like him and they got one.
- [04:21]
B
And when we should mention too that another one of the prime Bulls that was traded was Kobe White. And because they said, oh, his calves hurt, he can't play.
- [04:30]
A
Correct.
- [04:31]
B
They didn't disclose enough or didn't disclose that he was still hurting and it cost them a return to second round pick. Now that's bad.
- [04:44]
A
It's a bad look.
- [04:45]
B
It is really bad to start getting the reputation around the league as anybody who might try to pedal damaged goods. And I hope that it was a misunderstanding. I hope that maybe what the symptoms that the patient were reporting, maybe he said something there that he didn't say here. I don't know how they handled it behind the scenes, but that's really bad when word gets out like, oh, do I have to check your guys? Do I have to double check that I'm getting on one of these rentals here? Because when you rent somebody, that person's got to be available for every game.
- [05:17]
A
Yeah, somebody's contract is especially, especially with the way the Hornets have been playing. I mean, they won what, nine straight and then it came to an end with a close loss against Detroit. They're playing out of their mind right now. It's finally starting to click for them. And they have a ton of talent and so getting a guy like Kobe White presumably off the bench.
- [05:40]
B
Right. Well, they're going to blow by the Bulls. That's part of the plan there. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:45]
A
Let.
- [05:45]
B
Let them.
- [05:46]
A
But they, they got their guys. They tanked. They got Brandon Miller.
- [05:50]
B
Yep.
- [05:50]
A
They had Lamello ball in the 2020 draft. That was the third overall pick. So it's not like they need to anymore. When they think they can win now, why shouldn't they?
- [06:02]
B
I would also note that I think it's significant that Billy Donovan is not changing what he's doing. Even though his entire roster turned over, he was telling everybody, faster, faster, faster, faster. It looks like unless things change at the start of next year, the style of play is here and that's with giddy and modest that I've been watching these games very closely to see if pace was going to change and it's not. And he's daring them to keep up. So as long as Billy's around and if he wants to coach a rebuild, he's going to have a chance to do that. It's. They're calling it a retooling.
- [06:41]
A
I just. I just don't know what's going to happen with them. I don't know about his future for next season. Who?
- [06:48]
B
Billy's.
- [06:49]
A
Yeah, well, he's. The thing. The thing that I'm giving him credit for is doing the most with what he's got and having poorly constructed rosters and still taking all of the blame because AK and Mark Eversley rarely come out and talk. So he's gotta be the front man and take all this heat and take all the. Take. I don't wanna say take all the hate. That sounds too Jake Pauly, but like, I don't even know why I said that name. God, he's the worst. You heard it here first. Jason Bernstein is a public Jake Paul hater. I'm sure you're not alone and I don't. I don't think I would be. I know Kendall Gill is right up there with me and because of the whole boxing thing, remember? Yeah. And he's, he's. He's getting all the flack for. For what the Bulls front. Front office is doing and all these fire Billy comments and chants and whatever all over the place on Instagram, all over the place.
- [07:56]
B
I haven't seen or heard anybody wanting to.
- [07:59]
A
Oh my God. I'm just wondering if he wants Bulls fans in general. Don't, don't really like him. I'll be honest with you. And I Don't mind him. And so for him to be doing that. Good for him. I just don't know if he wants to take it anymore and. Because he deserves to have a good roster around him or at least one that. One that clearly has a direction. So I. We'll see what happens.
- [08:23]
B
But I'd like to know how invested he is in the development of.
- [08:27]
A
Yeah, I'll give him some credit. And if he's not, I wouldn't blame him because I just think. I think he's. Excuse me. Too established of a head coach to have to deal with what's going on.
- [08:39]
B
With the hall of Famer. Yeah, hall of Famer. So if he wants to develop these guys and see, the real problem is in any of these games, we just haven't seen giddy. So all that matters is the fit with your primary ball handler. And we haven't been able to judge anybody with their primary ball handler. It's made it very difficult.
- [09:00]
A
The.
- [09:01]
B
I thought. For the purposes of this show, let's just give. We've had what, three or four games now. Three, three games. Let's go. First blush, scouting reports.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah.
- [09:13]
B
On the new guys.
- [09:14]
A
Toronto, Denver and Brooklyn. Right.
- [09:17]
B
Toronto, Denver, Brooklyn. And all the games have followed sort of a similar pattern where they play.
- [09:21]
A
They play three quarters.
- [09:23]
B
Yeah. And then they're.
- [09:24]
A
They're tight. It's tight. It's tight. It's tight. And then they just fall apart at the end. And that.
- [09:29]
B
That's okay.
- [09:30]
A
That's fine. They're losing. They're. They're doing what I would call ethical tanking, where it's not like they're putting out horrible lineups or actively trying to lose.
- [09:43]
B
No, that's.
- [09:44]
A
They're playing hard and losing.
- [09:45]
B
But that's a huge misconception of tanking. Tanking is general managerial. That's all. And if you want to.
- [09:53]
A
This is a well constructed tank. It should be a little bit too late.
- [09:56]
B
It should be, but it doesn't. The coaches and players don't try to tank. Coaches don't try to tank usually unless the coach is also an executive. That could happen. But. And we have seen teams, you know, Utah took some guys out of the game. You know, there's some stuff going on there with maybe who they're playing down the stretch. But I think you tell Billy, do what you do. Coach him up. Coach him up and go. And you hope they lose. All right, I just have the names here in no particular order, just as I remember them. So let's start with Colin Sexton.
- [10:28]
A
Crazy person. Did you see that clip of him flipping off the rim, getting fined $35,000? I did, but his mic'd up night. He was just pounding his chest and clips of him in college when he did the three on five. I don't know if you remember that. There was a brawl against the University of Minnesota and everyone on Bama got ejected. So Bama played a 3 on 5 for the rest of the game. They lost by 5, but at that point, I think they were down either 7 or 10. And with three players, they actually won from that point on. And Sexton finished with 40. Yeah, he's just a. He's a. He's a pit bull is the way I put it. He's just.
- [11:10]
B
He's not bashful. I will say that his game is not bashful. I don't know where he fits.
- [11:16]
A
Not at all.
- [11:17]
B
I have no clue where he fits because you'd think maybe just a second unit scoring monster. But if Trey Jones is going to be your backup point guard, I'd rather.
- [11:27]
A
Be Trey Jones as well.
- [11:29]
B
Well, he's a lot more responsible and he's a lot more of a. Of a distributor facilitator, point guard than Sexton is. But Sexton's a. He's a chaos agent.
- [11:41]
A
He's fun, man. I like watching him.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah. And I know you do. You like watching all these guys.
- [11:47]
A
I love it.
- [11:47]
B
So I'd say I like Sexton. My biggest issue with him is the fit and just knowing if they were to keep him around, what his ultimate job is going to be and what he wants to do. How does he see himself? Does he think he's a lead guard on a champion? I don't know. Maybe he does.
- [12:03]
A
I don't think so. I don't think so. I think he's. I think he's too humble for that.
- [12:08]
B
Okay, well, now you pick the next name. I picked Colin Sexton. Go ahead, pick a name.
- [12:14]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates pricing coverage match limited by state law not available in all states. Rob Dillingham. Let's go.
- [12:36]
B
Rob Dillingham.
- [12:38]
A
I see something there.
- [12:40]
B
What? What do you see?
- [12:41]
A
Speed. He is fast. He's a tight handle. He's a bit. He's rushing a little bit, which is what we saw with Kobe. But the thing is that this is Rob Dillingham's second year in the league without much playing time, and he's made a couple of passes and had a couple of smooth layups where it's like, whoa. Where. What the hell just happened? And I remember when Minnesota drafted, or San Antonio drafted him, traded him to Minnesota, people were saying, oh, this. This Dillingham Edwards backcourt's gonna be the next big thing. And it never really was because he never really had the opportunity because they started Mike Conley and they started DiVincenzo, and they just didn't. Because they were contending, they didn't really have time to experiment much. And I like Rob Dillingham, and I'm excited to see what happens with him. He doesn't need to get in the weight room.
- [13:30]
B
There you go. See, I was just gonna say he's very thin and slight, and he's a wisp out there. He needs good weight on him, but he also needs experience.
- [13:43]
A
And let him let loose. Let him go. Okay.
- [13:49]
B
He has had a couple of these wild, leaping forays to the basket sometime where he throws it off. He banks one in that. I don't think he was trying to bank.
- [14:02]
A
No, he does that. If you watched him in college, he has some crazy outstretched arm layups where you're like, what the hell is he doing? That's kind of what he does. That's his style. That's how. That's how he's doing.
- [14:13]
B
That in the NBA is not so easy because there's big, angry men down there who will do bad things to you and bad things to the basketball if you try to do too much of that at that size.
- [14:25]
A
And one of them, the Bulls finally have.
- [14:30]
B
All right, we're going to do Nick Richards now.
- [14:33]
A
Yeah, man. I mean, he is the hands of Tony Bradley, but other than that, I love him.
- [14:37]
B
Ouch.
- [14:39]
A
His hands are great, but he does not have great hands. I wouldn't say that bad. Okay, let me correction Dickey Simpkins. Correction. His hands aren't great. And I was talking to my suite mate, who's a huge Kentucky basketball fan, who has always loved Nick Richards and held out hope for him and never understood why he got. Why he didn't get a bigger shot in the NBA. He said, yes, his hands have always been terrible, but he's a great rim protector.
- [15:05]
B
I've been no Dillingham. Scouting report from him.
- [15:08]
A
He likes Dillingham. He was just pissed that they started two other guys over Dillingham and Shepherd that one season.
- [15:13]
B
Okay, all right. But see what I'm Trying to figure out about my feelings for Nick Richards. Is it just because we've gone so long without a big strong guy that the very first big strong guy that shows up in a while, that we're overrated?
- [15:31]
A
He's strong and athletic.
- [15:32]
B
He's above the rating. You know what I mean? Like an NBA. One of those guys that other teams have that the Bulls don't. They now have one of. But are we going to overrate him just because. Oh, that guy.
- [15:43]
A
Oh, I think. I think recency bias is definitely a part of it for sure. I think there's a little bit of that. But at the same time, I don't see why he couldn't be a guy that comes off the bench and does that on a good team. Why not? He does a job. He can eat up fouls. He'll protect the rim. He doesn't really make any huge mistakes either.
- [16:05]
B
Hits his free throws.
- [16:06]
A
Makes his free throws. He made a three. I mean, it's not like that's the most reliable shot in the world, but.
- [16:12]
B
I just like his look, too. I like, for some reason, his. Like his intimidation factor.
- [16:19]
A
Yeah. He also has a 75 wingspan.
- [16:21]
B
Yeah.
- [16:22]
A
I mean, he's long and strong and angry. He's angry.
- [16:28]
B
He plays angry. He might not be angry.
- [16:30]
A
Right, Exactly. He plays. He'd be humming to him the whole time. Did you know he's Jamaican?
- [16:34]
B
I did know he's Jamaican. Yes.
- [16:36]
A
From Kingston.
- [16:37]
B
Yeah. So I don't know. I don't think he's an angry person, but he does play.
- [16:41]
A
That's what I'm.
- [16:42]
B
He's rugged. He plays ruggedly.
- [16:44]
A
Yeah. I like them. So we got four more guys still. Hold on. Well, not Leonard Miller. We can't really.
- [16:52]
B
Sexton, Richards, Dillingham. So we got Ivy, Simons, Yabu Selle, and the other way.
- [17:00]
A
And Leonard Miller. We haven't seen.
- [17:02]
B
Go ahead. I'm. You're. That's all you. I don't know anything about.
- [17:04]
A
We haven't seen. He's Emmanuel Miller's twin. The Bulls traded for the other one, so they got suck.
- [17:10]
B
Wait, twin?
- [17:11]
A
Identical twin, I believe. Yeah. He's Emmanuel Miller's twin. Yeah. Okay.
- [17:15]
B
All right. Well, that's interesting. You get rid of one, you get the other. So we haven't seen him. So this is based on what we've seen. So now we've got Ivy, Yabu, Saleh and Simons. So feel free to pick one. And I can. I will not stop saying that, by the way.
- [17:35]
A
Oh, sorry. Emanuel Miller's younger brother.
- [17:37]
B
That's okay.
- [17:38]
A
Okay. My fault.
- [17:39]
B
All right. That's what I thought. But. So the reason every time I watch a game and I see Anthony Simons. The reason every time I say Simons and it's.
- [17:48]
A
It's.
- [17:49]
B
There's a kid at camp. I've got a friend whose last name is Simons and there was a kid at camp when we were very young who had this raspy voice and it's just how he said his name. The kid's name was Adam Levine. Not the same Adam Levine who's got the moves like a Jagger. He did not have.
- [18:05]
A
And some other things that he's got.
- [18:08]
B
But this guy. Hey Simons. So I just say it.
- [18:12]
A
Both doing it.
- [18:13]
B
I know it's impossible not to once you start. Simons because he's good.
- [18:19]
A
He's better than Kobe White.
- [18:21]
B
I agree.
- [18:22]
A
Yeah. I don't. I don't even think it's close. He's better. He's just straight up better.
- [18:28]
B
I've noticed though he. Because he has the ball a lot. There have been so many miscommunications, but there have been so many.
- [18:35]
A
Seven new players.
- [18:36]
B
I know they've got no time to practice.
- [18:38]
A
That clip of Jaden Ivy waving people down the court and walking it. Walking and throwing it on Simon. Simon's nuts.
- [18:46]
B
It was hysterical.
- [18:47]
A
Yar and every. Everyone was just saying it was like Dak Prescott's warm up and like Drake. Drake May in the super bowl be like. I mean it was hysterical.
- [18:59]
B
Drake May didn't get that close to guys over the middle deep.
- [19:03]
A
Yeah. No. Because Will Campbell in his T Rex arms. That was brutal.
- [19:09]
B
And his torn knee ligament.
- [19:11]
A
He only brought that he. If he played well he wouldn't have brought that up. So I don't get. It's the playoffs. It's the last game of the season. Get your ankle shot up with some frickin steroids or like whatever you want to call it and go out there and have a game of your life. You should have enough adrenaline. Adrenaline to not give a shit. Am I saying this without being nearly. Nearly a million times as tough as those guys. Hell no. No shot. But don't bring up the fact that you have an injury after the fact because you played like ass because we know damn well you wouldn't have said shit if you played well. Okay, rants over.
- [19:51]
B
Do you know how many individual quarterback pressures he gave up in the game?
- [19:55]
A
A lot. I don't know.
- [19:57]
B
Do you know?
- [19:58]
A
No. Tell me.
- [20:00]
B
14.
- [20:02]
A
14.
- [20:03]
B
Will Campbell gave up individually gave up 14 pressures. That's like, bench that. That somebody. Braxton Jones gave up like, three. They. They sit him down at halftime, some of that stuff. Anyway, Anthony Simons, I don't think at 28, he.
- [20:22]
A
He's not 20.
- [20:23]
B
He matches up what they want to do. He's going to probably earn more money than they want to pay.
- [20:28]
A
He's not 28.
- [20:29]
B
Smooth operator, man.
- [20:31]
A
He's 26.
- [20:33]
B
What is he, 27?
- [20:34]
A
He's 26. He turns 27 in the office.
- [20:37]
B
Okay, well, okay.
- [20:41]
A
All right. He's tough.
- [20:42]
B
So you're gonna pay him 30 million a year?
- [20:46]
A
Is that what he's gonna command?
- [20:47]
B
He's a really good player, but that's.
- [20:48]
A
A lot of money. I don't know if he's gonna.
- [20:50]
B
He's already at 28.
- [20:52]
A
Why do you mean 30 million if the Bulls are giving Josh Giddy 25?
- [20:57]
B
I'm just saying he's already making 28.
- [21:00]
A
But it doesn't mean he'll. He'll make more because he's produced less. Well, but if part of that is minutes.
- [21:08]
B
But yeah, and contracts tend to go up. I mean, even if he were to make 32, it's not worth as much as, you know, it's relative to position, all the. Everything.
- [21:18]
A
What do we got? We got Yabu, Sele and Ivy, so. Okay.
- [21:23]
B
Yabu Selle.
- [21:25]
A
Dancing bear is fat.
- [21:27]
B
And I love him.
- [21:29]
A
He's so cute.
- [21:30]
B
He's. Yes, he's adorable. I just don't know if this is his actual playing weight or his playing condition. Does he. Would he plan on being in better condition?
- [21:42]
A
He's strong, though.
- [21:44]
B
Oh, he's very strong.
- [21:46]
A
You can move.
- [21:47]
B
I know.
- [21:47]
A
He's a better jump shot than I thought. I didn't know he could make shots.
- [21:52]
B
And he's another guy. Not bashful. I think what he saw was the. The four and the five in this offense. You are supposed to take that look. You are absolutely. How many times do we watch Vuch and just be like, shoot it, shoot it, shoot it, shoot it?
- [22:09]
A
Yeah, he's letting it fly.
- [22:10]
B
Oh, yeah, he is.
- [22:11]
A
And I'm okay with it.
- [22:13]
B
He is.
- [22:14]
A
I'm okay with it.
- [22:15]
B
We're going to.
- [22:16]
A
In 20 minutes, we're going to see him do it. Yeah, we are.
- [22:20]
B
He enjoys shooting, there's no question. But he's a big, strong man who gets very tired at the ends of games.
- [22:27]
A
I haven't been this excited about watching the Bulls in a long time. Since the beginning of the season. It sounds really stupid, but it's just the way my brain is wired.
- [22:37]
B
But Also, it's because this team now.
- [22:41]
A
I also like new shiny toys.
- [22:42]
B
And yes, you know, it's novelty and it reminds you of 2K. But the only.
- [22:47]
A
Yeah, it does. The amount of trades they made. Yeah. Yep.
- [22:50]
B
And you can't sim seasons in real life. That's the problem.
- [22:55]
A
God, I wish we could.
- [22:57]
B
I know we can move on. Yeah.
- [22:59]
A
Although. Although our lives would deteriorate in an hour because if we sim seasons, we would, you know, be a year older.
- [23:07]
B
And you have chosen poorly.
- [23:11]
A
What?
- [23:12]
B
Remember the Holy Grail? You don't remember the end of Indiana Jones and I. Oh, that Last Crusade?
- [23:20]
A
That movie I haven't seen in God knows how long.
- [23:22]
B
Don't you drink out of the wrong grail? And they. They grow immediately like a hundred years.
- [23:26]
A
Old in two seconds that I remember. Yeah. Don't they like fall down like on. Fall down a chute on top of a mattress or something? I don't know. They fall through a thing.
- [23:36]
B
They turn into dust.
- [23:38]
A
But I remember there's a scene where people fall through a thing.
- [23:42]
B
Fall through a thing. Well, he breaks. They break through the floor.
- [23:47]
A
That's what I mean.
- [23:47]
B
For the giant.
- [23:48]
A
And then they're reaching for. Okay, this sucks. All right.
- [23:51]
B
No, they're in the museum. The live.
- [23:53]
A
Why are we talking about this?
- [23:54]
B
I forgot. All right, so that. So are we done with Yabu Sele?
- [23:59]
A
Yeah, we like him.
- [24:00]
B
He's kind of bad.
- [24:01]
A
And this is the. This next one's the one that I want to talk about the most. I think it made me the most.
- [24:09]
B
Important guy for whom they traded, considering.
- [24:12]
A
Contract situation and age and everything like that.
- [24:16]
B
I'm already worried about Jaden Ivy. Yes, I am too.
- [24:21]
A
I texted you this and I hope, I sincerely hope that it's the fact that he doesn't trust himself to be fully healthy and really go because he's afraid of getting hurt again rather than just the fact that he lost a step. And that is what I'm really, really, really worried about considering how young he is and how fast he used to be. And it's just I've seen. There were a couple of times in the. What was it? The Denver game when he blew by somebody and it was actually a back to back possessions, I think in the second quarter. And you weren't watching. You were watching the Illinois game, I believe. And there were a couple times I went, well, okay, but after that and in the, in the Brooklyn game, I just didn't see any, any of that Purdue early Detroit Jaden Ivy stuff where you were a big fan of his.
- [25:20]
B
I believe there was a game, there's a Purdue game we were watching, if I remember correctly, and Ivy was running gorgeous screen roll stuff where he was just getting, you know, a lightning first step and getting a guy on his back watching to see if they switched or if they got over the screen. And I just loved how deliberately, even while moving quickly, how he. How he managed ball screens. And I think I said to you about Ivy, I said he could play in the NBA right now. Do you remember that?
- [25:56]
A
Not off the top of my head.
- [25:58]
B
I remember saying that. I remember watching.
- [26:01]
A
I trust you. I trust you.
- [26:03]
B
And I remember saying that this is not the same guy.
- [26:06]
A
Not right now.
- [26:07]
B
And I don't think it's speed as much as it is quickness. I do see end to end speed. I've seen him get down.
- [26:16]
A
I see what you mean.
- [26:16]
B
Like the first step, when you really saw it. They switched a ball screen in the Toronto game. This happened twice. They switched a ball screen and the screener was Mamu Kaleshvili.
- [26:33]
A
He's good, by the way. Yeah, he can shoot.
- [26:36]
B
Yeah, I know. But he's £240, 6 9. And Ivy couldn't get around him. He couldn't get an angle on him and all he was. And Mamu was in a defensive stance, but he wasn't. It's just like, take him like, you got that switch, you got the mismatch. And if you can't take advantage of that, he couldn't get around him. And when he has gotten around guys, he's done that. The behind the back dribble. It's not quite the Steve Coulter stanky leg, but it's a little bit of a hesitation. And I will tell you that the. What he has to do to get free in the half court is demar stuff. He's. And he's doing. He's doing demar stuff and not quite.
- [27:28]
A
As good at that yet.
- [27:28]
B
No.
- [27:29]
A
And he. But he's.
- [27:30]
B
He's way too young. He's way too young to have to do old guy things to get free in the half court. In the full court. He looks good and I will say that he's shooting it fine.
- [27:41]
A
Yeah.
- [27:42]
B
He's just not elevating on his jumper.
- [27:44]
A
No, I don't mind. Because I don't mind the fact that he's not rising a ton on his jump shot. Not a lot of guys do anymore, dad. Yeah.
- [27:51]
B
And he didn't really. That's true. He didn't really.
- [27:53]
A
A jump shot's a jump shot. Something that I Noticed he sometimes puts his hand down as soon as he releases a jump shot. I think that every single time he's kept his follow through, the ball has gone in. From my memory, that's something that I'm just looking out for. It's just like a tell of whether it comes out of his hand well or not. Because sometimes on a long shot, you put your hands down, kind of do a little backpedal, but he does it on routine jump shots. But when he holds that finish, I feel confident that it's going in okay. The guy that has that. That first step is Dillingham. Like, he. He's got that. You know, he. He's got that. And what I wonder is, can he maintain that? If he puts on a few, like, good weight, can he stay that quick? And then if he gets a little bit up here, lean that shoulder in, kind of give him one of those. Who does that? Andrew does that.
- [28:51]
B
I'm saying Sexton goes right at your head and he goes right in your body.
- [28:56]
A
Andrew Nemhardt is great at that, too. Unreal at using his shoulder. And I think that if Dillingham can do that and just create space for himself, that would be really, really interesting. I'm intrigued by Simons, but again, I don't really know where he fits. I think the guys that you're really looking at for long term here are Dillingham in some capacity and iv that's why you trade for him. And hopefully he can get back to that.
- [29:27]
B
I sure hope so.
- [29:29]
A
I hope so as well. And then Nick, I think Simons, if you want, I guess Nick Richards, you know, not all that important in the long run. I just like having a guy like that on the roster.
- [29:40]
B
So there is as complete a set of scouting opinions as with the Will Campbell crash out. Yes, it was interrupted by your Will Campbell crash out. That. That is. Those are the new guys. Those are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 material. New Chicago Bulls and how we feel after three games here on OWC. And that brings us to the show. All right, Jason Bernstein.
- [30:25]
A
You want me to go first?
- [30:26]
B
No, I want to go first. Okay, ready? Can you name currently the five longest tenured NBA players with the team that drafted them?
- [30:44]
A
With the team that drafted them.
- [30:46]
B
With the team that drafted them. These.
- [30:48]
A
Because that. That wouldn't count for. I mean, I know Luke is a Laker, but he was drafted by Atlanta and then went to Dallas, so it can't be somebody that was. Okay, got it.
- [30:58]
B
These are the five longest tenured current players with the team that drafted Them.
- [31:04]
A
And that's not a trick question, because can an undrafted player be a part of this? Like, it's just drafted.
- [31:12]
B
These are all drafted players.
- [31:14]
A
Okay. All right. Wow.
- [31:19]
B
It's the opposite of a trick question.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah. All right. Patrick Williams. Can't be there yet. Can. No. All right. Just making sure that it's not anybody from, like, that class that, you know, I just wanted to make sure that it's not anybody very recent. Ooh, Jalen Brown.
- [31:38]
B
Nope.
- [31:39]
A
Oh, wow. Okay. So we gotta go back a ways, then.
- [31:44]
B
Yep.
- [31:46]
A
You Donis. Haslam. Just retired.
- [31:48]
B
Did he? Well, I mean, a couple years ago.
- [31:51]
A
Yeah. But he was still on the roster, so that's that. I'm. I'm. This is. This is. This is tough. So it's not. It's going to be old guys, right?
- [32:00]
B
I mean, not. Not. Yes.
- [32:03]
A
Oh, Steph.
- [32:03]
B
Steph is number one.
- [32:05]
A
Okay.
- [32:05]
B
Steph is number one. 17 years.
- [32:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah. He's been there for a minute.
- [32:10]
B
Yep.
- [32:11]
A
Draymond, number two. Okay.
- [32:14]
B
14 years with Golden State.
- [32:20]
A
Trying to think of other guys that were part of, like, really good teams that were built around them. Giannis.
- [32:30]
B
Yep. Giannis is number three.
- [32:33]
A
Maybe not for long.
- [32:34]
B
13 years.
- [32:36]
A
Oh.
- [32:36]
B
But meanwhile, do some research about Giannis and Kalshee and.
- [32:41]
A
Oh, it's bad. It's weird.
- [32:44]
B
It's bad about all that that went on and all the money that was.
- [32:48]
A
Bet on it.
- [32:48]
B
And now he's like, oh, look, I'm still here, and I'm an owner of Kalshee. Okay, great.
- [32:53]
A
I'm trying to think because Miles Turner left after last season, otherwise he would probably be on this list. And he was 11th and 24. Fifteen, I believe. So I'm trying to. Jalen Brown was 2016. He was the third overall pick in 2016. That was the Ben Simmons draft. So it has to be everybody after that. Can't be Towns. Can't be. Dlo. I'm literally just going down the. The list here. Jamal Murray.
- [33:28]
B
No.
- [33:29]
A
Damn it. I. Okay, so that means.
- [33:32]
B
I can tell you thought you had that.
- [33:34]
A
I. Oh, I totally did.
- [33:35]
B
Yeah.
- [33:36]
A
And so Jokic. Because he was drafted beforehand. Yeah, because he was.
- [33:40]
B
Yeah, Jokic. Jokic. Eleven years with Denver. So he's going. He's tied with. With this guy. He's. I had him as listed fifth behind this guy. Also.
- [33:52]
A
That's the 2014 draft. So who is that? So if that's 2014, that's. Wiggins. That's. Oh, Joel Embiid.
- [34:06]
B
No gas. He's not on the list.
- [34:10]
A
24. It's right.
- [34:13]
B
Well, it's not the name that I have that I saw at a reputable idiot.
- [34:18]
A
Because he's been under. He didn't play every single season, but he was under.
- [34:23]
B
Well, maybe one of the seasons didn't count. Maybe didn't count toward his tenure. I don't know.
- [34:29]
A
Okay, because that's. That is a correct answer, if that's what we're talking about. I'm trying to think of who else was in that draft. Is this, like, a notably, really good player? Yep. Like All Star.
- [34:41]
B
Yep. And if he keeps this up, probable.
- [34:47]
A
Hall of Famer champion.
- [34:51]
B
No. No.
- [34:58]
A
Am I blanking?
- [35:00]
B
I don't know. Also 11 years.
- [35:02]
A
Yeah, I know. 2014 draft.
- [35:04]
B
Well, let me make sure it was 2014 draft, because you're asking me questions that I don't necessarily have the answer.
- [35:09]
A
To or if it's 2015, then he was 2015.
- [35:14]
B
2015 NBA draft.
- [35:17]
A
Oh, because the Nuggets took Moody a that year. They took Murray in 16 with the seventh overall pick. God, I played too many video games. Went Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis. His own. Yeah.
- [35:39]
B
Do you know this? How the hell do you know?
- [35:42]
A
I know Frank Kaminsky was in the. Oh, Booker, 13. Yep.
- [35:46]
B
Booker. Devin Booker. 11 years.
- [35:49]
A
Wow. Hall of Famer Devin Booker. Okay, yeah, but. And, well, he keeps it up. He isn't beyond there because he was drafted by Philly in 2014. Third overall pick. It went Wiggins, Parker, Embiid.
- [36:01]
B
I guess he should have been. Well, wait, he didn't. Hold on a second. No, it doesn't count because he didn't play 2014. 2015.
- [36:08]
A
He didn't play tenure. In what definition are you using the word tenure?
- [36:13]
B
Maybe what counts toward your pension. I don't know. He's only listed as having played 10 years. Okay, so I'm just saying by a technicality, because he didn't play for two full seasons.
- [36:23]
A
I know, but. Okay, whatever. But.
- [36:25]
B
All right, so, yeah, it's Curry, Draymond, Giannis, Booker, and Joseph.
- [36:29]
A
I'm trying to think who's the sixth overall pick in that draft? No, in the. In the 2015 draft. Because I know his own was five to the Magic, and seven was Moody A. The 2015 Willie Collinstein. That's who it was.
- [36:49]
B
Yes. Willie Collinstein was sixth.
- [36:51]
A
There was seven. The seventh was Moody. Right? Yep. Eighth. No, don't tell me. I know. Tenth was Justice Winslow. Oh, Stanley Johnson to the Pistons. Ninth was Frank Kaminsky.
- [37:03]
B
Yes.
- [37:04]
A
God, you are justice. Eleventh. Eleventh. Eleventh.
- [37:08]
B
You said his name already.
- [37:10]
A
Oh, is Miles Turner.
- [37:11]
B
Yes.
- [37:12]
A
12 was Trey Lyles. Yes.
- [37:16]
B
Are you looking at something? Are you pulling this out of your ass?
- [37:20]
A
I'm pulling this out of my ass. I. I have played so much NBA 2K. 16. And when you're doing the. My career, it goes through that. It goes through the players. 13 is Booker. 14. This is where it gets a little dicey.
- [37:38]
B
This is where it gets dicey.
- [37:40]
A
I know Rosier was 16th in that draft. Yes. And I know. Damn. I know Damn well who 28 was.
- [37:48]
B
Yeah, you do.
- [37:49]
A
RJ Hunter. I know RJ. I know RJ buddy. RJ Hunter. Draft.
- [37:53]
B
Yeah.
- [37:55]
A
I know 16 was rosier.
- [37:57]
B
This is unbelievable.
- [37:58]
A
When did the. Portis is in that draft? 20.
- [38:01]
B
Number 14 is a former Bull.
- [38:07]
A
Give me the team.
- [38:08]
B
Oklahoma City took him.
- [38:11]
A
Campaign baby.
- [38:12]
B
Cameron Payne.
- [38:13]
A
Yeah.
- [38:15]
B
Then it was Kelly Oubre.
- [38:17]
A
Yes.
- [38:18]
B
Then it's Rogier. Rashad Vaughn.
- [38:21]
A
Yeah. Vanderbilt, unlv. Okay.
- [38:25]
B
Sam Decker.
- [38:27]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [38:30]
B
Jerry and Grant.
- [38:31]
A
Oh. Bulls legend.
- [38:33]
B
Delon Wright. Justin Anderson.
- [38:37]
A
Then Portis.
- [38:38]
B
Right?
- [38:38]
A
Yeah. Then Portis. I knew he was 27.
- [38:41]
B
Then Ronde. Hollis Jefferson.
- [38:44]
A
Yeah. Arizona.
- [38:45]
B
Then Tyus Jones. You know what? This is not a bad draft. It really isn't. When you look at the number of guys here. Larry Nance Jr. R.J. hunter. Kavon Looney was 30th.
- [38:59]
A
Yeah.
- [38:59]
B
This really wasn't bad. And then even into the second round.
- [39:03]
A
Give me some second round guys.
- [39:04]
B
Second round Seti or Chetty Osmond. Montrez Harrell.
- [39:08]
A
Yeah. Harold was Rashawn Holmes.
- [39:11]
B
He had. He had some problems recently, didn't he?
- [39:14]
A
Yeah, but I don't know what. He's probably playing in Europe somewhere.
- [39:17]
B
Josh Richardson out of Tennessee.
- [39:19]
A
That's a good second round.
- [39:20]
B
Pat Connaughton.
- [39:22]
A
Yeah.
- [39:23]
B
Guess who was 46th in this draft?
- [39:26]
A
Who?
- [39:27]
B
Norman Powell. This is a great draft.
- [39:31]
A
He'd be a top five pick now in that.
- [39:33]
B
Yes, he would.
- [39:34]
A
He's a star this year. He's a dog.
- [39:36]
B
Yeah. This is a. This is a great draft.
- [39:39]
A
Really is, Towns.
- [39:42]
B
I mean, Okafor goes Russell Porzingis. And I mean, you start looking at, you know, Devin Booker might end up being the best, you know. 13.
- [39:51]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [39:52]
B
Damn.
- [39:53]
A
Shout out my guy. RJ.
- [39:55]
B
Well done. Well, I'm very impressed.
- [39:57]
A
Yeah, I know that draft back my hand.
- [40:01]
B
God. Too bad you. You can't take a class in that in school.
- [40:05]
A
Oh, I'd win.
- [40:06]
B
You don't win class.
- [40:08]
A
Okay, so I have another current top five.
- [40:11]
B
Okay.
- [40:12]
A
Question.
- [40:13]
B
All right. Run it.
- [40:14]
A
And I can. I'll get. This is a. This is tough. And I got three of the five guys.
- [40:19]
B
Oh, if you only got three, I'm.
- [40:22]
A
Only three with the teams, so I'll give you the teams. So it is the player that has run the most in total distance this season.
- [40:35]
B
This was the Joachim Noah. Right.
- [40:37]
A
So I'll give you the teams. You ready?
- [40:40]
B
Okay.
- [40:41]
A
Number one plays for Portland. Oh, God. Number two is on Atlanta. Number three is on the Knicks. I'm not going to get. Number four is also on Atlanta.
- [40:55]
B
Okay.
- [40:56]
A
And number five is Philadelphia.
- [40:59]
B
Number five is. Okay, so I'm going to say Tyrese Max.
- [41:03]
A
Tyrese Maxey is the Philadelphia.
- [41:06]
B
Because if you. If you watch him in person, it's like going to a hockey game when you can see that. Like, if you watch. First of all, he plays so hard. There's so many times that he ends up under the basket.
- [41:20]
A
He's a star, man.
- [41:21]
B
And then books his ass back on defense, too. He's not a great defensive player, but he tries. So I got one. I got Tyrese Maxey. All right, so you said. What was the Knicks? You said was the third team.
- [41:34]
A
And it wasn't who I thought it was. And I didn't get this one. I should have, but I didn't. It wasn't who I thought it was.
- [41:40]
B
Well, you would say should have for any of them. Ooh, boy.
- [41:49]
A
Portland.
- [41:50]
B
Portland. Portland. I should know more about Portland. It's. You know, because a lot of this. This is. It's not average distance. It's a counting stat.
- [41:59]
A
Right.
- [42:00]
B
So. So it's a function.
- [42:01]
A
Total minutes.
- [42:03]
B
Yeah.
- [42:04]
A
That's huge.
- [42:05]
B
Minutes. It would be huge. Is it Toomani Kamara.
- [42:11]
A
It is too Money Kamara. Yes. That's one of the ones I got, though. But yes, it is. To Moni Kamara. Okay, call.
- [42:23]
B
All right. That's just dumb luck because I. It happened to be that. I wasn't going to guess.
- [42:27]
A
Donovan clinging defensive player. He just runs all over the place. I mean.
- [42:31]
B
Yeah, I mean, there's some guys who run all over the place and aren't good defensive players, but all.
- [42:34]
A
All of the. All of the rest of these guys are known to be good defenders.
- [42:38]
B
Okay. Dyson Daniels.
- [42:39]
A
Dyson Daniels. I always. Just for whatever reason, I just. I remember the poem used to read Nentus Nan. I just want to go nice and Daniels.
- [42:48]
B
Now you're gonna have me doing that. That's a Shel Silverstein poem.
- [42:51]
A
I know, but that's from where the sign was. It's kind of a Terryism right there.
- [42:58]
B
No, that's a. I created that when I used to read the Poems to you and your sister. I would do all the different. Falling up. No, that's not from falling up. That's from where the sidewalk.
- [43:09]
A
Sidewalk ends. Yes.
- [43:10]
B
I don't know falling up all that well, but that's definitely from where the sidewalk ends. All right, so now there's another player from. Oh, shoot.
- [43:19]
A
Another. Another elite defender. And I'll say this, he has a couple of really distinct highlights this season. Buzzer beaters. But they were very special for one reason.
- [43:31]
B
Was it Risa Shay?
- [43:33]
A
No.
- [43:36]
B
Buzzer beaters.
- [43:37]
A
It's tough like at the end. So it's not. Not.
- [43:39]
B
It's not Jalen Johnson. I don't even. I don't even.
- [43:47]
A
You're probably not going to get it. I wouldn't like, you know the name, but it's not like anything crazy. Tell me to give it to you.
- [43:56]
B
It's not. Who is it? Okong.
- [43:58]
A
It's not Onyeko Nyeka Okongwu. It's not a Kongwu.
- [44:03]
B
I don't know.
- [44:03]
A
Then it's Nikhail Alexander Walker. Oh, so.
- [44:06]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't.
- [44:07]
A
He has two buzzer beaters this season that he made with it. That threes that he's made left handed. I'm not left handed.
- [44:15]
B
I have not left.
- [44:16]
A
I watched that movie the other day for. I always forget how good it is.
- [44:18]
B
By the way, when did you rent Caddyshack at like 4 in the morning?
- [44:22]
A
Hell yeah, I did.
- [44:24]
B
Why?
- [44:25]
A
Because it's awesome. Oh, it looks good on you, though.
- [44:30]
B
Wait, you just got it for yourself or was like a bunch of.
- [44:33]
A
Max and I wanted to watch a movie and we just started watching Caddyshack.
- [44:36]
B
Has he seen it?
- [44:37]
A
Yes.
- [44:37]
B
Because I never presume with you guys.
- [44:39]
A
All right, all right.
- [44:40]
B
Now I gotta get the nick. Oh, I don't know.
- [44:43]
A
The Bulls are about to play right now, dude.
- [44:45]
B
I know they are. So. It's fine. I'm gonna say it's Jordan Clarkson.
- [44:51]
A
No, it is Mikal Bridges.
- [44:53]
B
Oh, okay.
- [44:54]
A
Minutes.
- [44:54]
B
Yeah. So minutes. All right, good. Those. Those are two really good questions.
- [44:59]
A
Yeah. And a bonus 2015 draft where I just listed the entire lottery. I. Yeah. With the help about. With the help for Oklahoma City and Cameron Pain. That's. That's unbelievable.
- [45:12]
B
That is. Organizations Win championships. Episode number one three one like a zone, you know, like that 131 zone perfect. So like and subscribe and rate and do the things that you do. And Jason, I will catch you next time.
- [45:32]
A
Organizations Win Championships. A Chicago Bulls podcast with Jason and. And Dan Bernstein on 312 Sports.