Podcast Summary: Dan Snow's History Hit – "A History of Popes"

Episode Information:

• Title: A History of Popes
• Host/Author: History Hit (Hosted by Dan Snow)
• Release Date: April 22, 2025

Overview: In this episode of Dan Snow's History Hit, historian Dan Snow delves into the fascinating and intricate history of the Papacy. Joined by author Jessica Warmberg, renowned for her work City of a New History of Its Popes and Its Peoples, the discussion navigates through the origins, evolution, and enduring influence of the Pope within both religious and political spheres. The episode offers a comprehensive exploration of how the Papacy has shaped, and been shaped by, historical events from the fall of the Roman Empire to the modern-day Church led by Pope Francis.

1. The Legacy of Pope Francis and the Papal Succession

Dan Snow opens the episode by addressing the contemporary significance of Pope Francis's passing, highlighting his unique position as the first Jesuit and the first Pope from the Americas. He emphasizes Francis's progressive actions, such as:

• Appointment of Diverse Cardinals: "He appointed lots of cardinals from parts of the world and communities that hadn't been previously represented in the highest circles of church governance." [02:50]
• Social Advocacy: "He criticized corporate greed. He spoke out on climate change. He called for economic justice for the world's poorest." [02:50]
• Humanitarian Acts: "In his last hours, he was strident in his calls for a ceasefire in Gaza. He washed the feet of refugees." [02:50]

Dan also touches upon the tradition of the Papal Conclave, the secretive and time-honored process by which a new Pope is elected, ensuring the continuity of the Papacy through centuries of change.

2. The Origins of the Papacy: From Peter to Constantine

Jessica Warmberg provides a historical foundation, tracing the Papacy back to its roots with St. Peter, one of Jesus's closest disciples. She explains:

• Peter’s Role: "Peter had been chosen by Jesus to be the head of the church. And so when Peter dies in Rome, it gives anybody who comes after him the right to say this is the head of the Church." [07:25]
• Early Persecution and Veneration: "Peter was crucified in Rome, likely seen as a local pest. However, Christians began venerating his bones, laying the groundwork for what would become St. Peter's Basilica." [07:25]

The conversation highlights the transformative period under Constantine, who played a pivotal role in legitimizing Christianity within the Roman Empire:

• Constantine’s Vision: "He has a vision of the son of God, Jesus, who tells him to fight under His sign, leading to his victory at the Battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 A.D." [11:37]
• Edict of Milan: "Constantine grants religious tolerance, effectively ending the persecution of Christians." [13:31]

3. Emergence of the Pope as a Central Authority

Warmberg elucidates the gradual consolidation of the Papal authority:

• Early Popes: "Popes as we know them, authoritative leaders, didn’t emerge until the mid-first millennium. Early figures like Linus and Anicetus were called 'pope,' meaning 'father,' but without centralized authority." [15:23]
• Pope Leo the Great: "Leo firmly asserts the Pope’s supremacy, claiming, 'If you speak against me, you speak against St. Peter.' He garners support from emperors, solidifying the Pope's role as the leader of the global Church." [17:00]

4. The Papacy and the Decline of the Western Roman Empire

Addressing Edward Gibbon's thesis, Dan Snow and Jessica Warmberg discuss the relationship between Christianity and the fall of the Western Roman Empire:

• Counterpoints to Gibbon: Warmberg argues that Christianity's values, such as charity and non-violence, did not directly lead to the empire's decline but represented a cultural shift. "The shift in values transformed the elite's expression of greatness from gladiatorial games to charitable acts." [20:58]
• Papal Influence: "Popes stepped into the power vacuum left by the weakening empire, using their religious authority to maintain Roman continuity." [21:15]

5. Christianity as a Vehicle for Preserving Roman Heritage

The discussion moves to how Christianity preserved Roman culture and facilitated the transition to the medieval period:

• Custodians of Culture: "Popes became custodians of Roman artifacts and architecture, integrating classical elements into Christian basilicas and fostering a revival of Roman and Greek influences during the Renaissance." [31:23]
• Legitimization of Barbarian Rulers: "Barbarian kings, like the Ostrogoths and Visigoths, adopted Roman customs and sought Papal legitimacy to solidify their reigns, blending Roman and Christian traditions." [33:21]

6. Challenges and Controversies within the Papacy

Warmberg does not shy away from the darker chapters of Papal history:

• Seculum Obscurum (Dark Age): "From the 8th to the 10th century, the Papacy experienced significant corruption and power struggles, exemplified by figures like Pope Formosus, who was posthumously tried and disgraced." [40:28]
• Controversial Popes: "Popes such as John XII exhibited morally questionable behavior, highlighting the ongoing tension between the Papacy's spiritual mission and its temporal power." [40:28]

7. The Modern Papacy and Global Influence

Concluding the episode, the hosts explore the enduring global influence of the Papacy in contemporary times:

• Global Diplomacy: "Modern interactions, such as Emmanuel Macron’s discussions with the Pope about the Ukraine war, demonstrate the Pope's continued role as a significant global figure despite the Church no longer being centered in Europe." [45:34]
• Legacy and Populace: "The Papacy's ability to adapt and maintain relevance is rooted in its historical legacy and the symbolic authority inherited from St. Peter." [46:59]

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Snow on the Papal Conclave: "The process of selecting new Pope is one of the most secretive, one of the most time-hallowed rituals anywhere in the modern world." [03:52]
• Jessica Warmberg on Constantine’s Vision: "He sees Jesus, who tells him, look, if you go out to battle your foes in my sign, in the sign of my name in the Cairo, you will win." [11:37]
• Warmberg on Pope Leo the Great: "He really understands what it is to be a political figure, but sort of tied to this, his religious role and his religious authority." [18:32]
• Dan Snow on Papal Influence: "It's astonishing that the Pope still confers some kind of spiritual stamp of approval, much like in the days of William the Conqueror." [47:28]

8. Conclusion: The Enduring Role of the Pope

The episode wraps up by reflecting on the Pope's dual role as both a spiritual and temporal leader, emphasizing the complex interplay between religious authority and political power. Warmberg highlights the symbiotic relationship that has allowed the Papacy to remain a central institution through millennia, adapting to changing political landscapes while maintaining its foundational religious mission.

Final Thoughts: Dan Snow and Jessica Warmberg offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the Papacy's evolution, illustrating how an institution founded in the early Christian era has navigated through empires, cultural shifts, and internal challenges to remain influential in the modern world. This episode serves as an illuminating journey through history, shedding light on the enduring legacy of the Popes and their pivotal role in shaping both religious and global affairs.

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