Alexandria

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Dan Snow’s History Hit – “Alexandria”

Release Date: October 7, 2025
Guest: Islam Issa, author of Alexandria: The City That Changed the World

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Overview

In this episode, historian Dan Snow welcomes scholar and Alexandria-native Islam Issa to explore the legendary city of Alexandria. Together, they discuss its origins under Alexander the Great, its purpose-built diversity, the wonders of the ancient world like the Pharos Lighthouse, the legendary Library of Alexandria, and the city's enduring legacy in both ancient and modern contexts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundation of Alexandria

[02:07–06:38]

• A Blank Canvas:
  Islam Issa explains that when Alexander arrived, Pharos Island and the surrounding area were largely uninhabited, just scattered fishing villages and farmlands. “I think it was probably a bit of an anti climax in terms of who was there and how many people occupied the space. This was really a city that was constructed purposefully.” (Islam Issa, 04:35)

• Alexander’s Strategic Aims:
  Alexandra was built at the crossroads of Europe, Africa, and Asia—an intentional site for a “world capital.” Alexander sought a city not just with strategic geographic placement, but also one that linked him to Egypt’s prestigious, ancient civilization.

  “Egypt is very much at the center of his world between Europe and Asia. But also Egypt has existed as a civilization for a long time […] a reputation as a place of medical knowledge … engineering feats.”
  (Islam Issa, 05:40)

• A City of Myth and Vision:
  Because Homeric epics mention Pharos, Issa argues that the site already had mythological weight for Greeks, further motivating Alexander.

2. Radically New Civic Ideals

[06:38–10:18]

• Engineered Diversity:
  Alexandria was purpose-built to gather people of different cultures and faiths, allowing a multicultural city and a global trading hub to flourish—radically different from organically grown or conquest-driven cities.

  “Gathering a uniquely diverse group together in one space and allowing them the freedoms of their own cultures and faiths … can create a global trading hub. […] And that knowledge equals power.”
  (Islam Issa, 07:03-08:49)

• Knowledge as Power:
  The founding principle: collecting and disseminating knowledge would bring immense “soft power.”

3. Urban Planning & Lasting Design

[10:18–13:05]

• Innovative Urban Layout:
  Hippodamus’ grid system, championed by Aristotle, laid out wide, straight avenues that maximized sea breezes—a street plan still felt in the modern city.

  “The promenade should profit from the sea breeze and shelter the people from strong winds. And that's probably what's felt today from that initial design.”
  (Islam Issa, 12:15)

4. Alexandria as a Cosmopolitan Metropolis

[13:05–16:52]

• Rapid Population Growth:

  • Early planning (sewage systems, unbuilt spaces) anticipated massive population booms.
  • The “Alexandrian Dream” and religious inclusivity (e.g., creation of the god Serapis) drew diverse newcomers.

  “There's loads of work here, come and work.”
  (Islam Issa, 14:26)

• Liberal, Open Society:
  Unlike Athens, Alexandria allowed scholars and migrants unprecedented freedoms.

  “So, for the large part, it's a place where people are free to be themselves. Obviously that begins to change as the centuries pass.”
  (Islam Issa, 15:55)

5. The Lighthouse of Pharos – Wonder of the World

[19:43–21:09]

• Technological and Symbolic Might:

  • Possibly the tallest or second tallest building in the ancient world (est. 100–135 meters).
  • Its mirrored beacon and massive cost (a tenth of the royal treasury) both assisted navigation and demonstrated Ptolemaic wealth and power.

  “It's as much for practical purposes … but it's also supposed to be a show of power.”
  (Islam Issa, 19:48)

6. The Library of Alexandria – Knowledge Capital

[21:09–26:45]

• The Obsession with Collecting Knowledge:

  • Ptolemaic rulers tasked library founders: “gather all the books in the world,” making the city a global intellectual magnet.
  • By the 1st century BC, estimates cite 500,000–700,000 scrolls.

  "It's a huge project, a huge complex, gathering all the books in the world. ... The quest to find these is quite intriguing."
  (Islam Issa, 21:26)

• Famous Scholars:

  • Hypatia: Iconic female philosopher, her murder marked Alexandria’s intellectual decline amid religious strife.

    “She’s the greatest female philosopher of her generation.” (Islam Issa, 23:25)

  • Ptolemy (the Geographer): Advanced cartography and music—epitome of Alexandrian interdisciplinarity.
  • Euclid: His Elements remained a foundational math text for millennia.

    “There is no royal road to geometry.”
    (Euclid to Ptolemy I, as quoted by Islam Issa, 26:22)

• Library’s Decline:

  • A long fade rather than a single cataclysm; Caesar’s burning of ships likely damaged the library, but political changes, stricter rulers, and religious intolerance eroded its foundation.

  “It’s a slow and steady decline. ... The more the Romans influence Egypt, the more the library declines.”
  (Islam Issa, 26:45)

7. Alexandria’s Fate Under Rome and Its Aftermath

[28:10–31:44]

• Absorption by Giant Empires:
  • Alexandria’s independence and primacy waned as Rome, then Constantinople, and later the early Islamic empires rose.
  • Caliph Omar's preference for inland capitals, lack of a navy, and Alexandria's immense diversity led to its demotion after the Muslim conquest.
  • "It often serves their cities and serves their empires rather than being important in and of itself." (Islam Issa, 31:44)

8. Modern Alexandria & Enduring Legacy

[31:44–35:25]

• A City Apart:
  The city’s cosmopolitan, slightly “outsider” identity lingers today in traditions, linguistic quirks (calling Cairo “Egypt”), multi-faith neighborhoods, and unique local customs.

  “Alexandrians today will refer to Cairo as Egypt. They don't say Cairo, they say Egypt. … Alexandria's always been a kind of odd one out, and I think that still remains.”
  (Islam Issa, 33:54)

• Alexander’s Tomb:

  • Its location remains a mystery, the source of rumors and legends among locals.

    “Alexandrians will tell you. Yes, he's still there. But where? … I heard so many theories about where Alexander is buried.”
    (Islam Issa, 34:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Mythic Spark:
  “Homer at this time isn't just literature. It's kind of like history. … It's mentioned that Helen of Troy goes there twice in Greek mythology. So it's already part of the consciousness.”
  (Islam Issa, 07:03)

• On True Multicultural Purpose:
  “He allows the Egyptians to continue worshipping their gods. He invites the Jews … There are early Buddhists. It's really quite a unique vision for how to build a population.”
  (Islam Issa, 09:11)

• No Royal Road to Geometry:
  “There is no royal road to geometry.”
  (Euclid to Ptolemy I, as quoted by Islam Issa, 26:22)

• On Alexandria’s Evolving Attitude:
  “For the large part, it's a place where people are free to be themselves. Obviously that begins to change as the centuries pass.”
  (Islam Issa, 15:55)

• Present-Day Alexandria’s Character:
  “… you can just hear it echoing around the city. Until today. That's something that Alexandria is doing on the New year, and that comes from a Jewish and Greek and Hellenistic tradition.”
  (Islam Issa, 33:54)

• On Alexander’s Tomb:
  “So many Roman rulers visit Alexander's tomb one after the other, and then suddenly it stops. Even his people know not where he is, writes Streble.”
  (Islam Issa, 34:05)

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Timeline of Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:-----------:|:---------------------------------------------------------| | 02:07 | Origins: Why and how did Alexandria arise? | | 06:38 | The city’s mythic resonance & radical founding visions | | 10:18 | Urban planning & Hippodamian grid | | 13:05 | Population growth and the "Alexandrian Dream" | | 15:55 | Civic freedoms and multi-ethnic society | | 19:43 | The Lighthouse: technology & symbolism | | 21:09 | The Library’s founding myth, mission, and scholars | | 26:45 | The fate of the Library | | 28:10 | Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, and Alexandria’s fall to Rome | | 31:44 | The city’s fluctuating fortunes under later empires | | 31:58 | Modern Alexandria’s character and ancient remnants | | 34:05 | The enigma of Alexander’s tomb |

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Conclusion

Islam Issa and Dan Snow paint Alexandria as a city of intentional diversity and intellectual aspiration—a place whose echo can still be felt in the modern world. Whether through its surviving street plan or the legendary mystique of Alexander’s unlocated tomb, Alexandria’s radical experiment in urban life and cosmopolitanism persists against the tides of history.

Book Mentioned:
“Alexandria: The City That Changed the World” by Islam Issa

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For Further Engagement

• Look up Ptolemy’s maps, Euclid’s Elements, and the story of Hypatia for deeper context.
• Explore local traditions and neighborhoods in modern Alexandria, where ancient cosmopolitanism is still alive.

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Transcript

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Zoe]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Dan Snow]

Hi everybody. Welcome to Dan Snow's history hit. Homer wrote that after Helen and Paris ran away together, wildly in love, they landed on the island of Pharos on the southern edge of the Mediterranean and what is now what was then Egypt. The poet Also says that on her way back to Greece, having been recaptured by her husband Menelaus after the destruction of Troy, the death of Paris, she also visited that same island on the way home. This story was well known in the classical Greek world. And that's why when Alexander the Great became the only Greek warlord to conquer Egypt, it was very natural that this massive Homer fanboy Alexander the Great decided to build a huge city on the island of Pharos. And it was to be a totem of his new empire. Sitting at the crossroads of this mighty realm spanning three continents. The city that he founded on that island, he gave his name to. It was Alexandria. And the city is surely one of his most enduring, most significant legacies. Alexander was buried there. In the centuries that followed his death, his city flourished. It became possibly the first city on Earth to reach a million in population. It was a center of trade and it became a center of knowledge. It was home to the greatest library in world history. To that point, a center of study. Tell me all about Alexandria. Tell me all about this extraordinary city. I've got a son of that city, a native of Alexandria, Islam Issa. He is a multi award winning author, curator and broadcaster. He's professor of literature and history at Birmingham City University. He's just written a book, Alexandria, the city that changed the world. Let's hear from him. Enjoy.

[Islam Issa]

T minus 10. Atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

[Dan Snow]

God save the King.

[Islam Issa]

No black white unity till there is first some black unity.

[Jeff Bridges]

Never to go to war with one another again. And lift off and the shuttle has cleared the tower.

[Dan Snow]

Islam. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

[Islam Issa]

I'm very excited to be here.

[Dan Snow]

Alexandria is such an obvious place to have a massive city. I mean, was there stuff there before Alexander the Great or is this genuinely a new foundation?

[Islam Issa]

I think when Alexander arrived at this location, there was probably an anti climax. There was an island there that was uninhabited, Pharos Island. And then on the Mediterranean coast there were some scattered fishing villages. But there was a lake to the south of the Mediterranean as well where there were some shrubby farmlands that people occupied. But no, I think it was probably a bit of an anti climax in terms of who was there and how many people occupied the space. This was really a city that was constructed purposefully. Usually a city is founded as a result of a geographical division or a war. This wasn't the case here. This was a place that was not organically created. It was purposely created when he arrived and realized that it had potential.

[Dan Snow]

Do you have a sense of where the Ancient pharaohs presumably had a big port at the mouth of Nile. Was it where Damietta is now or a little bit further to the east? Or does this show Alexander's interest in tying Egypt in with the rest of the ancient near east with the Greek world from which he'd sprung? Is this a big statement?

[Islam Issa]

It's a bit of both, I'd say if I were to summarize Alexander and his goals. I think he wanted world domination, to put it simply, and obviously was interested in expanding eastwards towards Persia and India and so on. Egypt is very much at the center of his world between Europe and Asia. But also Egypt has existed as a civilization for a long time. So when Alexander arrives there, he's halfway in the timeline between us and the great pyramids. So that's how long the pyramids had been there. So Egypt's already got a reputation as a place of medical knowledge, for example, as a place of engineering feats. So I think part of it is also an ambition to control what is not just geographically well positioned place, but a place that has a long history and a reputation and its own traditions and cultures.

[Dan Snow]

Because that's what sort of really comes across with Alexandra. But I can't work out how much of this is myth that I've just fallen for. Was it designed and set up to be somehow different from other places?

[Islam Issa]

First of all, when he arrives, I think it's part of Greek consciousness already as a result of Homer. So it's got this mythological prowess from the very beginning. It's mentioned in Homer's writing, this location.

[Dan Snow]

So the island of Pharos is mentioned.

[Islam Issa]

Yes, exactly. So the island is mentioned. Homer at this time isn't just literature. It's kind of like history. And in the absence of single scripture, it's got a theological importance as well. So the island of Pharos is mentioned. It's mentioned that Helen of Troy goes there twice in Greek mythology. So it's already part of the consciousness. Plutarch writes that Alexander actually dreams of the venerable grey haired man appearing before him. And quoting Homer, an island lies where loud the billows roar. Pharos, they call it, on the Egyptian shore. And that Alexander just gets up and goes immediately to this location. So that's the first point. It's part of the consciousness already which helps him in that quest. But I do think that Alexandria is unique in its founding in that it's built on what I argue are two radical visions about how to create a city. Like I've said, it's not come about from geographical division or war. It's not organically expanded, it's purposely expanded. So the first of those visions is that gathering a uniquely diverse group of people together in one space and allowing them the freedoms of their own cultures and faiths can help the economy and create a global trading hub. And a second of these is that knowledge equals power. That comes slightly after Alexander, but that's the idea that if you collect the world's knowledge and you are the caretaker of that knowledge and the disseminator of that knowledge, that you can garner some serious soft power. So I think because of those two visions, Alexandria is quite unique in the way that it's set up.

[Dan Snow]

Yeah, I love that. That's such an interesting insight that it was a place in Egypt the Greeks had heard of, and therefore, I guess it would have attracted their gaze. And also it's near Greece. It opens up an artery for communication, for reinforcement. If you've got trouble in your Eastern empire, having a big Greek city on that coast, a day's sail from Crete is probably really useful.

[Islam Issa]

Yes, it's the intersection of the continent. It's a crossroads through which the Hellenistic world can connect with the. Particularly with the treasures of Asia and Persia. It's uniquely connected to Africa via the Nile, the Levant, and Uruk via the Mediterranean, obviously, and then Arabia and India through the Red Sea. So Alexandria can become this link between the three continents, and that allows trade very quickly to develop. It allows the movement of people, and it also allows cultural exchange. But on that note, I don't think that Alexander, again, it's part of the unique start that the city had. He doesn't Hellenize in the way that might have been expected at that time. I think he chooses Rabba to harmonize. So he allows the Egyptians to continue worshipping their gods. He invites the Jews to the city with the promise of freedom of worship. There are early Buddhists. It's really quite a unique vision of society, of how to build a population, because the first thing you need when you create a city from scratch is people as well.

[Dan Snow]

So it's very exciting because Aristotle, we think, is involved in city planning as well as some other very brilliant men. He doesn't really spend any time there. The city that bears his name, one of his most famous legacies. He's there for what, a couple of.

[Islam Issa]

Months, if that really. I mean, Alexander, legend has it, he arrives, he's excited, and he ecstatically gets onto his knees and scribbles the plan for the city on the sand. And it's a plan that has the public spaces and the markets and the harbour, and also a shrine to the muses, which will become the library. And then he rushes off for his next adventure. He goes southwards towards the Siwa oasis in order to find out about his parentage and where he becomes convinced that he has divine parentage and a link to Zeus. So Alexander's overexcited and leaves, but his stamp on it, his stamp on the city is present through these legends, through the Alexander romance that's written in order to record some of the legends that he has and the stories of Alexander through his friend and general Ptolemy, who is the one who is the successor to him after he dies in Egypt. He takes Egypt. But also just the fact that, as you've mentioned, Aristotle is Alexander's tutorial. And that's a really quite magnificent line of knowledge. So Aristotle teaches Ptolemy and Alexander. So we have Alexander and Ptolemy, Aristotle. Aristotle's taught by Plato, Plato is taught by Socrates. I mean, that is quite the line of teachers. And so it makes sense for the city to be planned in a very educated way. It's not randomly designed in terms of its urban planning. It makes sense for the city to have a library thereafter as well as a result of that Islam.

[Dan Snow]

Can I ask, is that any of that original street plan or planning visible in your native city today?

[Islam Issa]

Yes. The short answer is yes. The Greek architect Hippodamus was a champion of the grid system. His ideas were held in high regard, and especially by Aristotle. And it was about having big, straight streets cut at right angles. So that's the promenade, if you like. In Alexandria, the promenade is this long, straight street that allows for multiple lanes. So at the time it was multiple lanes of horses and chariots and so on. Now it's multiple lanes of cars driving in every direction. But also the one that really, you can really feel literally in Alexandria today, is that the promenade should profit from the sea breeze. So the angle of the promenade is supposed to profit from the sea breeze and shelter the people from strong winds. And that's probably what's felt today from that initial design, because it's at the same angle.

[Dan Snow]

Amazing. So the city is unlike some parts of Alexander's imperial projects, it's an extraordinary success. So Alexandria starts to benefit, does it, as being the sort of key node for Eastern trade coming into this, and I guess African trade coming into the Mediterranean basin. And the population. It balloons. Yeah.

[Islam Issa]

I mean, the population is obviously something that's intended to boom. So I'd say two things in the very early design confirmed this. The first is the cisterns, so the fact that they really sorted a whole sewage system immediately suggests that they wanted people to live there. And the second is based also on Hippodamus urban planning, which Aristotle and the engineer Dinocrates, who was charged with building Alexandria, believed in, was the value of uninhabited space. So the central areas were left uninhabited and unbuilt, knowing that the city could then evolve as the population grew. So that's proof that it was supposed to grow and then to bring people in. Beyond the urban planning, there was also the creation of the cult of Alexandria, if you like, in order to attract people. So you attract people through different means. One of them is obviously what I call in the book the Alexandrian Dream, which is basically, there's loads of work here, come and work. And the other side of that was also that Ptolemy hijacks Alexander's corpse, brings it to Alexandria and creates this mausoleum around it. So it's got this attraction, but also the creation of Serapis as a unifying God. So the Ptolemies bring this amalgam of a God who's Greco Egyptian, so both the Egyptians and Greeks can worship the divine protector of the city. So these all help bring people in. And I think that's the key. That population is the key to the city becoming a trade hub, because it could be well positioned at the intersection of the continents, but have no one there. But once they bring everyone there, they're able to develop their trade with different. Many people working on the harbour, many people working construction. Grain is exported, among other things. And then you have the imports coming both from Europe and from Asia are stopping, so it becomes a kind of transit place as well. That's something I've not really seen many people discuss before. It's not just that it's a trade center, it's also a transport hub where people can transit in between traveling east and west.

[Dan Snow]

And although it doesn't appear to be all Sunday uplands, it's a place where different nationalities and ethnicities seem to be able to carve a path through life with perhaps slightly less interference they might have got in other places.

[Islam Issa]

Yes, I mean, as far as scholars are concerned, for example, to give one example, Alexandria is a liberal city. So whereas in Athens, scholars could be evicted from the city on grounds of impiety, the fact there's no democracy in Alexandria is actually working in favor of that because it means that people can say what they want and do what they want for large part. And as you've mentioned. The population increases by the 1st century BC to the hundreds of thousands and it becomes one of the most populated cities on earth, perhaps the first city to reach a million. So part of that is the jobs that people have jobs. Part of it is this liberal city concept that people can flee there, that people can bring their communities there, that people can preach there. So for the large part, it's a place where people are free to be themselves. Obviously that begins to change as the centuries pass.

[Dan Snow]

You listen to Dan Snow's history hit the best is yet to come. Stick with us.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Zoe]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Zoe]

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[Islam Issa]

Nice.

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[Islam Issa]

On us with eligible traded in any condition.

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Islam Issa]

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[Dan Snow]

Did I talk too much?

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[Dan Snow]

I wish I would stop.

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[Dan Snow]

Let's do the Lighthouse. What was it about this lighthouse that was one of the wonders of the world?

[Islam Issa]

Well, first of all, it's really tall. I mean, it's potentially the tallest or second tallest man made building in the world at that time. It's the first great lighthouse in recorded history, placed on right there on the island of Pharos, which Alexander had ordered to be connected to the Mediterranean coast via a causeway. And this lighthouse is, I mean, it's a spectacle. It's as much for practical purposes. So it has a mirror for reflection of the sun during the day and a furnace to guide the ships with a fire during night. But it's also supposed to be a show of power. It stands tall and shows that this city is a rich city. It shows that this is a powerful dynasty, the Ptolemies. And it shows that people, as they come into the city, they can follow that Alexandrian dream. As the Pharaoh's lighthouse that it was called rises majestically so at least 100 meters tall. Some narrations put it around 117, 135 meters. It's white limestone, so it reflects the light. And like I said, it costs a huge amount of money. Ptolemy I's treasury would have cost about a tenth of the Treasury. So 800 talents and today's money, that's £16 million. So it's a show of power.

[Dan Snow]

And it lasts for over a thousand years until the great medieval earthquake. It's so sad. We almost got to have a glimpse of that. Tell me now talks about knowledge. Alexandria is so famous for the great library. Why did Alexandria become this great seat of knowledge? And how amazing was that library? How much would you like to have seen it?

[Islam Issa]

It's something we have very limited information about in terms of how it Looked. So part of the wonder of it is that we continue to imagine it. But it starts with the founding myth, the founding legend of Alexander getting on his knees, scribbling in the sand, and adding a shrine to the Muses, where we get the term museum from now. And so it's part of their early vision for the city that knowledge equals power. And it becomes something of an obsession. How did it come about? The Ptolemies, Ptolemy I, and then it's followed by Ptolemy ii. And third, they hire Demetrius, who has to fare in the city. He's a former Athenian governor, and his job description, if you like, is to gather all the books in the world. We know that from a letter at the time. And it's a seemingly impossible task. It's also not a very selective task, but they go to great measures to do so because they believe that if they are the guardians of knowledge, then knowledge equals power. And they build a museum adjacent to the library, which is a kind of research center where the scholars are free to stay. They have tenure, if you like. They get free food and accommodation as long as they do research. It's a huge project, a huge complex, gathering all the books in the world. There's all these scrolls. And the quest to find these is quite intriguing. They go to great measures and lengths in order to do so. By the first century BC, it's thought there are 700,000 books. Some people say over a million. The second librarian is quoted as saying there are half a million scrolls there. So it's really that job description to gather all the books in the world? That's the main task of the library.

[Dan Snow]

Archimedes, he may have spent time there, but we do know some other extraordinarily important thinkers, mathematicians, scientists. Tell me about one or two who would have used that research center. Is it Hypatia? Tell me about her.

[Islam Issa]

Well, she's the greatest female philosopher of her generation. She is interested in renewing and analyzing the early mathematicians of Alexandria, and she takes a very public role of philosopher. So a philosopher at the time in Alexandria isn't just somebody who sits in the room of philosophizing. A philosopher has an open house which people can come to to learn, to seek counsel. She is involved with the governors of Alexandria. But the issue with Hypatia is that she appears at a time when Christianity is spreading in Alexandria and when there's some serious doubts placed on the philosophy, what would have been termed pagan philosophy. And she's tragically killed in a sign of how the city changed from when it Started as a place where people were entitled to different opinions and to freedom of opinion, freedom of worship, to a time when there are consequences to thinking differently to the status quo.

[Dan Snow]

I love ptolemy, the geographer, 2nd century AD. Was he working?

[Islam Issa]

He was. And he has some really fascinating notes where he says things like, I wouldn't want to be anywhere at Alexandria. He felt that he was a part of the city, that it gave him the freedom to do what he wanted and to write about what he wanted. He was also very much Alexandrian in the sense that he didn't stick to one thing. He was well versed on geography, as we well know, but also on music, for example. So he advanced the sort of science of music. So a lot of these scholars like Bartolome were interested in multiple fields and tried to amalgamate those fields in order to reach sort of what they would have perceived as the ultimate truth.

[Dan Snow]

I love Ptolemy's maps. People should go and Google. Well, they should Google all of these people who are mentioning. But Ptolemy's maps are so extraordinary. Then we got Euclid. Euclid, it's math and geometry.

[Islam Issa]

Euth is interesting in the sense that he was very early, so he's before Hypatia and Ptolemy. He arrives in the city within a decade of its founding. He writes books outlining the basics of geometry. He writes the elements, which was a 13 volume work. And there was a key textbook for those studying mathematics until maybe about 100 years ago. And interestingly then, because the library and its research center were state endeavors, there were constant links with the pharaoh, with the Ptolemies. So for example, there's a letter we mentioned Demetrius in gathering all the books in the world. There's a letter where he reports to the king about how many books he's gathered. So they're constantly checking on them. And Euclid's interesting because Ptolemy I, who is ruling Egypt and the Ptolemaic Empire, was fascinated by this new idea, by the geometry, and he wanted to learn it. And he summoned Euclid to the palace. He said to him, this is too hard. Is there a way I can learn geometry without understanding your book, the element? And there's the famous reply from Euclid, which is, there is no royal road to geometry. I think that's a really neat phrase because we can put that in any subject. There's no royal road. You have to work hard and understand what's in front of you in order to be an expert in it.

[Dan Snow]

Let's finish off the library, sadly, literally, is there One catastrophic moment where the library is destroyed, or did it just get run down?

[Islam Issa]

It's a slow and steady decline. There's a moment, I guess, when Julius Caesar is there and he sets fire during this war in Alexandria to the ships on the harbor. And he writes so in his autobiography, a very odd autobiography, it's all in third person. So the fire is set to the harbour and it expands into the city. And it seems that caused some damage to the library, and Plutarch certainly thinks so. But there is evidence that the library survives and it's a steady decline over time. The library, because it starts as a state endeavor, in some ways, we could say the same about our current situation. Libraries are very much symbolic of the political situation and public spending, that kind of thing. So the more the Romans influence Egypt, the more the library declines and the less freedoms that exist. So with the rise of Christianity, later with the Muslims, the more that these freedoms are restricted, the more that scholars leave and head to Athens or Rome. And as these scholars leave, they also take books with them. They don't just take ideas with them, they take books. So it's a slow and steady decline. I don't think there's one moment, but I think it's symbolically that does start in the first century bc, when Julius Caesar sets fire to the city.

[Dan Snow]

Caesar's trying to conquer the Ptolemaic kingdom. Is he? Or he's marched in there with intent to expand the empire.

[Islam Issa]

Yes, I mean, he's an ambitious man who's got these huge rivalries in Rome at this stage. Obviously, Rome is still a republic. It's not quite the empire that we know. And he'd read Alexander's biographies. There's even a story of him weeping under Alexander's statue, lamenting that he hadn't achieved what Alexander has in his 30s. The Ptolemies bring it on themselves to some extent, because they borrow money from the Romans, especially Cleopatra, the famous Cleopatra vii, her father, Ptolemy xii. They borrow a lot of money from Rome and they put collateral on that. It was Ptolemy X before that who sought support from Rome and specified that in the event of dying without an heir, Egypt would go to Rome, which seems like collateral. Then Ptolemy XII borrows a lot of money from Rome as well. And so Caesar actually says, because Ptolemy XII is illegitimate, people didn't quite know who his mother was, that he's not a legitimate heir to Egypt and therefore it should belong to Rome based on what Ptolemy X had done. So that's how the Ptolemies kind of brought it on themselves. And then in 48 BC, the Romans then attack Alexandria and Cleopatra sides with Caesar against her brother and sister in that particular occasion.

[Dan Snow]

And her love affair with Caesar, or anyway her relationship begins in the city, does it?

[Islam Issa]

Legend has it that she gets unfurled into the palace where Caesar is. So Caesar, when he arrives in Alexandria, makes himself at home immediately in the royal palace. To the extent that Cleopatra has to somehow get inside. She gets inside where they're roald from a Persian rug or not, you know, we can't be sure. And as the Roman army besieges The Harlow in 48 BC, Caesar and Cleopatra are inside. About a year and a half later, after these major Roman reinforcements arrive, the Alexandrian army escapes and it's a victory for Caesar. That whole time Cleopatra is in the palace and she now has Caesarion, who's little Caesar, her son from Julius Caesar.

[Dan Snow]

As Alexandria is then absorbed into really big empires. Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire, so the continuation of the Roman Empire and then the early Islamic empires, does it decline in importance in those bigger units?

[Islam Issa]

I mean, it's a fluctuating story. No doubt that the Ptolemaic period was the period where it really did expand and where it was a global knowledge capital and a global trading capital with, for example, Constantine building a new city in Constantinople. Of course, Alexandria declines in importance. The early Muslims were very much land people. When the Muslims take Egypt, the Caliph orders, Caliph Omar orders that the capital be moved. And that's the moment when it loses its status as a capital. He orders for it to be moved because they don't like water. First of all, there's the Nile separating Mecca and the Red Sea separating Mecca from Alexandria. It's quite a distance. But also they don't have a navy to start with. They're unsure about naval battles and also they're unsure how to deal with a diverse population like Alexandria. So it declines in importance then and then as more empires. It often serves their cities and serves their empires rather than being important in and of itself. Those are two examples of that.

[Dan Snow]

What about modern Alexandria? That's what I like from your book. It's clear that it's not just the street plan that endures. There are characteristics, there's a feel in the city which does hark back to its sort of founding principles.

[Islam Issa]

The difficulty is so much of the ancient city is absent. Some of it is under the city, physically under the city, some of it is in the depths of the ocean. But I think there's something about the name, believe it or not, that Just reminds people of how old the city is and who the founder is. There are multiple periods present in it. So you might find a Roman theater on one corner and a Mamluk mosque on another corner. So there's an expansive period of history in Alexandria as well. There's something of a unique character. So in the same way that it was called Alexandria by Egypt at the beginning, not in Egypt, Egypt, in the same way that many people during the early centuries saw it as slightly separate to Egypt, and then Greeks saw it as separate to Greece. And the Jews of Jerusalem, they saw the Jews of Alexandria to be these liberal Jews who, to quote, were more interested in theater than the synagogue. So Alexandria's always been a kind of odd one out, and I think that still remains. Alexandrians today have their own cultural traditions that are quite different to other Mediterranean locations, to the rest of Egypt, to the Arab region. Alexandria's still got those unique moments. So, for example, on the new year, as it turns midnight, Alexandrians throw pottery and throw glass out of their windows and balconies, and you can just hear it echoing around the city. Until today. That's something that Alexandria is doing on the New year, and that comes from a Jewish and Greek and Hellenistic tradition. So there are these kind of quirks that you do feel that Alexandria is quite different. Alexandrians today will refer to Cairo as Egypt. They don't say Cairo, they say Egypt. So, yeah, there is something of that still in the air, for sure.

[Dan Snow]

And I should ask, when's the last time we knew where Alexander was buried? Will he be unearthed one day by archaeologists? Alexandria, or was his tomb looted and stolen?

[Islam Issa]

The fascinating thing is that so many Roman rulers visit Alexander's tomb one after the other, and then suddenly it stops. Even his people know not where he is, writes Streble. So there's a sudden moment where people just seem to lose sight of where he is. And could that be because it was so obvious that it didn't need to be recorded? Or is it that it was lost to time? It's a real mystery. But the thing is, Alexandrians do have their own theories. So if you walk around Alexandria today, people will have local legends about where Alexander is. Many think he's near the Prophet Daniel street, which is a lovely street because it has a big mosque, a big church, and a big synagogue all on one road. There are people who think it's near the Roman ruins that had been found under the ground. There are small wall paintings of Alexander as well in some of the areas. So people have theories about it. And I sitting at cafes during the research process I heard so many theories about where Alexander is buried. Alexandrians will tell you. Yes, he's still there. But where? Well, I mean it's a similar question for Cleopatra and Anthony's tune as well.

[Dan Snow]

Sounds like a very nice research process Bunny sitting in delicious cafes watching the world go by as sophisticated Alexandrians chat about the possible whereabouts of the founder. Now tell everyone what the book is called.

[Islam Issa]

It's Alexandria, the city that changed the world.

[Dan Snow]

Nice. Good luck with it Islam. Thank you very much indeed.

[Islam Issa]

Thank you so much.

[Dan Snow]

Thanks so much for listening folks. We really hope that this has helped you better understand what's going on.

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[Dan Snow]

Give me a bit of context and if you think your friends, family, colleagues would enjoy that, then please, please do share with them. Whatever your podcast player, whatever you're listening on, it will let you share this as a link or even a WhatsApp message that sharing is the last lifeblood of this podcast and what keeps us going. So thank you for listening and thanks for sharing. Join us next time for another episode of Dan Snow's History Hit.