Podcast Summary: "Did the Trojan War Really Happen?"

Podcast: Dan Snow's History Hit
Host: Dan Snow
Guest: Professor Eric H. Cline, George Washington University
Date: September 21, 2025
Duration (content only): 02:09–39:19

Overview

In this episode, Dan Snow is joined by Professor Eric Cline, an expert on the ancient Mediterranean world, to investigate the historicity of the Trojan War. Together they discuss whether the legendary conflict depicted in Homer's Iliad is rooted in historical events, what archaeology and ancient texts reveal, and how the story fits into the broader context of the Late Bronze Age. The conversation explores myth, literature, archaeology, and the collapse of ancient civilizations.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Story of the Trojan War and Its Enduring Influence

(02:09–05:46)

• Dan Snow opens with a dramatic reading from the Iliad, emphasizing the timeless appeal and profound impact of the story.
• The Trojan War has shaped European literature for millennia and continues to fascinate modern audiences.

Quote:
"The motivations of those characters, their hopes and anxieties, are so relatable that they melt the more than two and a half thousand years that sit between that time and our own." — Dan Snow (03:09)

2. Sources for the Trojan War: Myth, Archaeology, and Hittite Records

(06:09–09:58)

• Eric Cline stresses that Homer is not the only source; archaeology and Hittite texts provide external evidence.
• The Iliad is not pure myth; there is a "kernel of truth" underlying the legend.
• Bronze Age Greece (Mycenaean period, c. 1250–1200 BCE) was a patchwork of small kingdoms engaging in trading, diplomacy, and sporadic violence with their Anatolian neighbors.

Quote:
"We've actually got two other sources. We've got archaeology and we've got the Hittite records... I don't think it's a complete myth. There's a kernel of truth." — Eric Cline (06:19)

3. The Bronze Age World: Trade, Diplomacy, and Potential for War

(09:05–10:47)

• The Late Bronze Age Mediterranean was a "globalized" world with extensive trade in metals and luxury goods.
• Frequent contact between Greeks and Anatolians meant both cooperative and hostile interactions were likely.
• While the Iliad dramatizes a ten-year siege, reality may have involved intermittent conflict and raids rather than prolonged warfare.

Quote:
"It's a globalized Mediterranean, if you will... So it's not at all surprising that we wind up with the stories such as Homer gives us because we know that there is truth behind it." — Eric Cline (09:05)

4. Warfare and Society in the Bronze Age

(10:47–13:51)

• Homeric depictions often reflect Iron Age (Homer’s own time) warfare, not Bronze Age practices.
• Chariots were used as combat vehicles in the Bronze Age, not merely as transport to the battlefront.
• Social structure likely included high-status warrior elites, but the "coalition" of Homer may be an exaggeration of what was possible at the time.

Quote:
"When Homer describes things, is it from his period or is it actually Bronze Age?... I actually think that what we're looking at here in the Trojan War is Bronze Age fighting." — Eric Cline (11:02)

5. Political and Religious Unity—Or Lack Thereof

(13:51–15:43)

• While there was linguistic and religious unity among Mycenaean Greeks, political unification is uncertain.
• Homer’s depiction of Agamemnon as "king of kings" hints at some kind of hegemony, but most scholars see a collection of independent, fractious rulers.
• Wars could be sparked by personal slights or the quest for booty, reflecting real ancient motivations.

Quote:
"Going to war over one person like Helen, certainly conceivable." — Eric Cline (15:08)

6. The Archaeology of Troy

(15:43–19:17; 22:42–26:45)

• The site of Hissarlik in northwestern Turkey is widely identified as ancient Troy, excavated notably by Heinrich Schliemann.
• The site consists of several layers, with Troy VI and VII (c. 1300–1200 BCE) most closely matching the time frame of the supposed war.
• Evidence includes destruction layers, arrowheads embedded in walls, and bodies—signs of both earthquake and violent conquest.

Quote:
"We've got arrowheads embedded in the walls, we have bodies in the streets... The big question... is not was there a Troy that was destroyed at the site, but which one is the one we should be looking at?" — Eric Cline (22:53, 24:11)

7. The Hittite Records: Multiple "Trojan Wars"

(27:33–32:11)

• The Hittite empire documented several conflicts over a city called Wilusa (probably Troy), naming rulers and direct involvement with Mycenaean Greeks.
• Four different "Trojan Wars" are described, any of which could have inspired Homer’s narrative.
• A ruler named Alexandu is mentioned around 1280 BCE—a striking parallel to Paris (Alexander) from the Iliad.

Quote:
"From the Hittite point of view, the question is not, was there a Trojan War? The question should rather be, which of the Trojan wars is the one Homer is talking about." — Eric Cline (28:08)

8. The Bronze Age Collapse and the Trojan War

(32:11–34:28)

• The destruction of Troy fits within a broader period of upheaval and collapse (c. 1250–1150 BCE), when the Mycenaean and Hittite civilizations fell.
• Causes ranged from invasions, drought, and famine to systemic disruptions—an ancient “perfect storm.”
• The Trojan War may have been both a symptom and a cause of this wider collapse.

Quote:
"The Trojan War fits into the general pattern of collapse there... For its day and age, yes, it was a pretty hefty accomplishment." — Eric Cline (32:20, 37:43)

9. Homer, the Epic Cycle, and Cultural Memory

(34:28–37:29)

• Homer's Iliad and Odyssey are part of a larger, largely lost epic tradition (the Epic Cycle).
• For the Greeks and later Romans, the Trojan War was a foundational myth, shaping cultural identity and historical consciousness for centuries.
• Homer was one among many epic poets; his works survived because of their popularity and resonance.

Quote:
"There's an entire group called the Epic Cycle, of which the Iliad and the Odyssey are just two... The vast majority of them are now long gone." — Eric Cline (34:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the mix of myth and reality:
  "It might not be quite the way Homer described it, but there was something. He didn’t just make up the entire war." — Eric Cline (29:43)

• On the motivations for war:
  "I'm not sure it was really because of Helen. I have a feeling Helen was an excuse for a war that was going to be fought anyway." — Eric Cline (38:18)

• On the scale of ancient warfare:
  "The battles back then, if you have a hundred chariots, that's a huge army... So it may have been a much smaller war than we generally think of, but for its day and age, yes, it was a pretty hefty accomplishment." — Eric Cline (37:43)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction, background of the Iliad and Trojan War | 02:09–06:09 | | Evidence for historicity: myth vs. reality, Bronze Age context | 06:09–09:58 | | Society, trade, and warfare in Mycenaean Greece and Anatolia | 09:58–15:43 | | The archaeological search for Troy | 15:43–19:17 | | Archaeology of Troy: destruction layers and chronology | 22:42–26:45 | | Hittite records: multiple wars & the Alexandu connection | 27:33–32:11 | | Bronze Age Collapse context | 32:11–34:28 | | Homer, the Epic Cycle and ancient Greek memory | 34:28–37:29 | | Reflection on the war's magnitude and lasting legacy | 37:29–39:19 |

Conclusion

Dan Snow and Eric Cline deliver a nuanced discussion of one of history’s greatest legends, blending literary analysis with cutting-edge archaeology and textual decipherment. While the Iliad's version of the Trojan War is steeped in myth and embellishment, a historical conflict—perhaps several—did likely occur near the end of the Bronze Age, amid a swirling context of international trade, political intrigue, and civilizational collapse. The story’s survival and central place in the Western tradition speak to the timeless nature of its themes and the enduring human fascination with war, heroism, and the vagaries of fate.

Final Thought:
"Imagine that, just seizing on one small human instant to ignite a much, much wider conflict that engulfs nations. We've seen a fair bit of that in the last few generations as well." — Dan Snow (39:07)