Dan Snow's History Hit
Episode: The Origins of The Troubles (Part 1)
Date: September 7, 2025
Guest: Dr. Thomas Leahy, Senior Lecturer in Politics, Cardiff University
Episode Overview
In this first of a two-part series, Dan Snow and historian Dr. Thomas Leahy take listeners on an ambitious journey spanning centuries of Irish history, unpacking the deep-rooted origins of the conflict known as The Troubles. The episode aims to demystify the complex web of religious, social, and political tensions that led to the Troubles, stretching from the Anglo-Norman invasion in the 12th century to the aftermath of World War I and the seismic 1918 general election.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Recent Past and Introduction to The Troubles
- Battle of the Bogside & Bloody Sunday (02:07–07:45)
- Dan Snow opens with a vivid account of tension in Derry/Londonderry in 1969, culminating in the "Battle of the Bogside"—a decisive riot viewed as the start of The Troubles.
- The narrative fast-forwards to 1972's Bloody Sunday, where British paratroopers killed 13 unarmed civilians at a civil rights march, an event escalating global outrage and deepening rifts.
- Notable Quote:
- Dan Snow: "It was one of those moments that deepened or really escalated, I suppose, the conflict that we euphemistically call the Troubles." (07:34)
2. Centuries in the Making—Why The Troubles Did Not "Start" in the 1960s
- Unraveling Centuries of Conflict (08:04–08:58)
- The podcast commits to a detailed look at the English-Irish relationship from the Anglo-Norman invasion onward, covering major events up to the 20th century.
- Dr. Leahy is introduced as a guide to the episode's nuanced history.
3. Medieval Ireland: Gaelic Chieftains and Early English Encroachment
- Decentralized Gaelic Society (10:02–11:29)
- Ireland, prior to Norman arrival, was a patchwork of competing chieftaincies with unique laws (Brehon law) and inheritance customs.
- Notable Quote:
- Dr. Leahy: "Ireland would have been decentralized ... with different chieftains for different areas, rulers, regional kings." (10:26)
- Christianization as Justification for Invasion (13:03–15:12)
- Ireland’s slow Christianization allowed Henry II to gain papal blessing for invading, framing the Anglo-Norman invasion as a crusade to "civilize" a pagan, peripheral land.
- Quote:
- Dan Snow: "I did not think about the Anglo Norman conquest of Ireland as part of this, dare I say, crusading movement..." (14:48)
4. Norman "Conquest"—Myth vs. Reality
- Limited Control & Intermarriage (16:57–20:51)
- Henry II’s influence was mostly limited to the Pale (Dublin area), with real expansion hampered by lack of resources and decentralized Irish power.
- Over time, "Old English" Norman settlers intermarried and assimilated with Gaelic elites, blending customs and Catholic faith.
5. The Reformation: Shifting Religious and Political Tensions
- English Influence vs. Irish Autonomy (21:55–24:13)
- By the Tudors, divide deepens: the English crown held nominal authority, but true power lay with local elites.
- Henry VIII and Failed Protestantization (26:26–29:35)
- Protestant Reformation and efforts to centralize power failed due to lack of resources, entrenched local elites, and customs resistant to change.
- Quote:
- Dr. Leahy: "Trying to establish the Reformation in England, Scotland, and Wales ... is the major focus ... To do this in Ireland too would take vast resources." (26:58)
- Elizabeth I Intensifies Efforts (31:40–33:34)
- The late 16th century brings the Nine Years War (Tyrone’s Rebellion), as the English attempt to stamp out local autonomy and Catholic culture—sparking devastating conflict and destruction.
6. The Plantation of Ulster and Colonialism
- Settler Colonization and Lasting Division (36:18–41:28)
- Post-rebellion, English (now British) policy shifted to settle Scottish and English Protestants in Ulster, creating a powerful Protestant minority.
- This "plantation" laid foundations for the later split between (predominantly Catholic) Nationalists and (Protestant) Unionists.
- Notable Quote:
- Dr. Leahy: "Never underestimate the ability of ambitious younger sons to make their feelings known." (41:02)
7. Cataclysms of the 17th Century
- Rebellion, Cromwell, & the Williamite Wars (46:00–55:23)
- 1641 Rebellion: Catholic uprising against Protestant settlers in Ulster, exacerbated by English distractions due to civil war at home.
- Cromwell’s brutal conquest (1649–1653) solidified English power and dispossessed Catholic elites.
- Quote:
- Dr. Leahy: "For Cromwell, ... this army they're up against is the opposite and opposing religion ... It's a genuine threat in their head." (52:20)
- Quote:
- Glorious Revolution (1688–90): Protestant William of Orange’s victory confirmed Protestant dominance in Ireland, especially in Ulster, embedding sectarian antagonism.
8. The 19th Century: The Act of Union and the Great Famine
- Act of Union (1801) (57:40–60:15)
- Ireland incorporated into the United Kingdom; Irish Catholics largely excluded from the new political order.
- The United Irishmen uprising (1798) fails, but plants seeds for both republicanism and repression.
- Catholic Emancipation & The Great Famine (60:20–65:44)
- Late 1820s-30s: Catholics gain limited rights, but the 1840s Famine devastates Irish society—over a million dead, mass emigration, and enduring trauma.
- Quote:
- Dan Snow: "The horrors of this period ... were seared into the minds of the Irish at the time." (65:44)
- Ongoing controversy: Was British policy neglect, incompetence, or genocide?
9. Home Rule, Unionist Resistance, and Political Deadlock
- Rise of Home Rule Movement (67:06–70:29)
- Late 19th century: Campaign to devolve power back to Ireland (akin to modern "devolution" in the UK).
- Ulster Unionists, predominantly Protestant, fear "Rome Rule" and block Home Rule via the House of Lords.
- Quote:
- Dan Snow: "Their argument was Home rule would mean Rome rule and that means that the Catholic Church will call a shot and will be discriminated against." (69:25)
- Quote:
- Near Civil War and WWI’s Pause (70:29–73:13)
- The brink of civil war between Ulster volunteers and Nationalists—only the outbreak of WWI prevents immediate violence.
10. The 1916 Easter Rising and the Path to Independence
- Rising, Repression, and Rising Radicalism (76:34–81:10)
- Despite initial lack of popular support, Britain's harsh response to the Easter Rising sparks sympathy and radicalizes public opinion.
- 1918: Sinn Féin wins a landslide, shifts goal from Home Rule to full independence—setting up a rival Irish parliament and policy of abstentionism.
- Quote:
- Dr. Leahy: "The majority of people across the island voted for that... there is kind of the seeds of partition, you can see, at that point." (82:03–84:00)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Historical Perspective:
- Dan Snow: "It just shows that so much history is about where you are standing at that point in time." (08:14)
- On English-Irish Relations:
- Dr. Leahy: "The relationship would have been ... very similar to the relationship with say like Scotland and Wales ... skirmishes ... but none of these would be particularly successful in terms of like a takeover." (10:26)
- On Prospects for Peace:
- Dr. Leahy: "Once you start to allow Catholics ... to play a full role ... potentially the tensions in the relationship could have declined ... but the famine interrupts that." (60:56)
- On the Recurring Pattern of Conflict:
- Dan Snow: "Distraction, distraction, distraction ... you get a sort of English ... constitutional crisis ... and then you get William going to Ireland ... in a slightly similar way." (53:32)
- On Partition’s Roots:
- Dr. Leahy: "...there is kind of the seeds of partition, you can see, are partly there at that point in 1918's election." (83:49)
Timestamps of Important Segments
- Battle of the Bogside & Bloody Sunday summary: 02:07–07:45
- Discussion of medieval Ireland & Norman invasion: 10:02–16:57
- Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Reformation, and Catholic-Protestant rifts: 26:26–36:18
- The Plantation of Ulster: 36:18–41:28
- 17th-century cataclysm (Cromwell, Williamite war): 46:00–55:23
- Act of Union, Catholic Emancipation, and Great Famine: 57:40–67:06
- Emergence and crisis of Home Rule: 67:06–73:13
- 1916 Rising, Sinn Féin, and the 1918 election: 76:34–84:00
Summary Table: Key Themes by Era
| Era | Key Events/Themes | Takeaway for The Troubles | |----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|----------------------------------| | Medieval (pre-12th C.) | Gaelic chieftains, Brehon law, decentralization | Roots of local autonomy, contest over sovereignty | | Norman & Plantagenet (12th–15th C.) | Anglo-Norman invasion, ‘beyond the Pale’, assimilation | Catholic-Protestant division slow to form, but lines being drawn | | Tudor-Stuart (16th–17th C.)| Reformation, Nine Years War, Plantation of Ulster, Cromwell | Foundations for sectarian, colonial, and land-based divisions | | Williamite-18th Century | Glorious Revolution, Protestant Ascendancy | Protestant domination and Catholic suppression institutionalized | | 19th Century | Act of Union, Famine, Home Rule debates | Modern political grievances, emigration, republican sentiment | | Early 20th Century | Home Rule crisis, WWI, 1916 Rising, 1918 Election | Republicanism ascendant, partition seeds sown |
Episode Tone and Style
Dan Snow and Dr. Leahy maintain a clear, accessible, and often conversational tone. They blend narrative storytelling with scholarly insights and candid personal observations, never shying from the contentious or tragic aspects. The overall aim is to help listeners make sense of a long, complex, and emotionally charged history, and to underscore how much the past informs present-day divisions and identities.
What Comes Next
The episode concludes with the breakdown of the 1918 election results and the rise of Sinn Féin, setting the stage for Part 2, which will address the Irish War of Independence, partition, and The Troubles themselves.
For further exploration, listeners are encouraged to tune in to Part 2 for 20th-century developments up through the Good Friday Agreement.