Podcast Summary: “The Rise, Fall and Rise of the Taliban”

Dan Snow’s History Hit
Guest: Lyse Doucet, Chief International Correspondent, BBC
Aired: January 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores Afghanistan’s recent tumultuous history through the unique lens of the Intercontinental Hotel in Kabul, a symbolic microcosm reflecting decades of regime change, conflict, hope, and trauma. Host Dan Snow interviews renowned journalist Lyse Doucet about her new book, The Finest Hotel in Kabul, and shares her decades-long experience reporting from Afghanistan—from the end of the Soviet occupation to the Taliban’s return in 2021. Together, they chart Afghanistan’s sociopolitical shifts and the international entanglements that shaped its destiny.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Afghanistan’s Strategic Geography and Historic Crossroads

• Afghanistan has historically been at the intersection of Central Asia, South Asia, and the Middle East—a blessing and a curse, making it vulnerable to constant invasions and foreign interests.
• The country’s formidable geography (Hindu Kush mountains, passes like the Khyber) shaped both defense and isolation, as well as the nature of local communities.

  “Afghans often say they’re cursed by their geography … It’s a natural defense, but also means that it makes Afghans think locally, because it’s so difficult to get to the other side.” – Lyse Doucet [04:25]

2. Afghanistan’s Political Roller Coaster (1970s Onwards)

• The Intercontinental Hotel, built in 1969 as a symbol of modernization, mirrors the nation’s upheaval:
  • Monarchy (“Golden Age”): A peaceable, cosmopolitan kingdom, remembered nostalgically—not perfect, but stable.
  • Communist Coup (1978): Radical shifts as communism took charge, followed by Soviet invasion in 1979.
  • Mujahideen Rule (1992): Collapse of the communist regime led to factional warlordism.
  • First Taliban Era (1996): Emergence of a puritanical, rural Islamist force; suppression of women, culture, and modernity.
  • Western-backed government (2001-2021): Hopes for democracy dashed by corruption, warlord resurgence, and the Taliban’s return.
• Each regime change dramatically altered the daily life, clientele, and symbolism of the Intercontinental Hotel.

  “Whoever rules Afghanistan sets the rules at the Intercon. So politics was checking in and out of the hotel just like guests.” – Lyse Doucet [09:28]

3. The Soviet Invasion and Aftermath

• Soviet occupation (1979-1989) was seen as a “bleeding wound,” paralleling the later US involvement.
• American and British support for the mujahideen (including figures like Osama bin Laden), in a Cold War “enemy of my enemy” setup, laid unexpected groundwork for future conflicts.

  “They came in by air, by land … a limited contingent of Soviet troops. … And then the war just intensified … ending in bloodshed and destruction.” – Lyse Doucet [18:09]

4. Civil War, Taliban’s First Rise, and The Hotel as Microcosm

• Post-Soviet Kabul fell into chaos: warlords, starvation, and destruction even as the Intercontinental became a warzone.

  “It became a frontline with rocket launchers by the pool, helicopter gunships around, fighters using rooms as bunkers ... but it still stood, a metaphor for Afghanistan.” – [27:31]

• The Taliban, emerging from madrasas and rural strongholds, were initially greeted as harbingers of order but quickly established a draconian regime.

5. 9/11 and the International Intervention

• The US and allies invaded after the Taliban refused to hand over bin Laden.
• The swift defeat of the Taliban in Kabul unleashed enormous hope; democratic elections followed.

  “It was the first time in their history they were electing their leader … I cried, my colleagues cried, Afghans cried.” – Lyse Doucet [40:46]

6. Disillusionment, the Taliban’s Return, and Foreign Withdrawal

• The “Original Sin” at Bonn: excluding the humiliated Taliban from peace talks helped fuel their resurgence.
• Western military surges and strategies often clashed; years of peace were punctuated by corruption, botched policies, and alienation of rural communities.
• US/NATO withdrawal in 2021 was chaotic, reminiscent of Saigon in 1975 but on a far greater scale.

  “You had those aircraft taking off … with Afghans clinging to the belly of the plane … It was a debacle, a disastrous debacle.” – [54:37]

7. Afghanistan Under the New Taliban Regime (2021–Present)

• The Intercontinental Hotel is open—on booking sites it looks inviting, with photos of pools and buffets, but devoid of music, alcohol, or mixed company.
• Bullet holes in the marble, unreliable electricity, and a clientele of Taliban officials are the reality.
• Restrictions on women and girls are even harsher than before; Afghanistan is pushed “back into another century.”

  “If your loyal listeners are looking for a holiday with a difference … the booking site won’t tell you there’s no music, don’t bring your bikinis … the Taliban are running the hotel.” – Lyse Doucet [55:48] “In many ways it’s worse, it’s more harsh than it was in the 1990s … Girls not going to school past grade six, women not going to university, women shut out of many of the job[s]…” [57:28]

8. Reporting from the Eye of the Storm—The Emotional Toll

• Doucet describes the privilege and burden of bearing witness, the need for journalistic detachment, and the overwhelming scenes at Kabul’s 2021 fall:

  “The human side of the war … the women and children, they’re … not just close to the frontline, they are the frontline … The enormous human consequences of wars of our time should be front and center.” – Lyse Doucet [61:45]

• She notes that when journalists become the story, they lose control of the narrative:

  “When you’re emotional, it means you’re losing control of your storytelling. … But it is our job to try to narrow the differences between us and them … to convey the enormity of what was happening in Afghanistan.” – [59:02]

Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Afghanistan’s “curse”:
  “They're cursed by their geography ... its geography has worked against it and worked for it.” – Lyse Doucet [04:25]

• On the Intercontinental’s unique lens:
  “Whoever rules Afghanistan sets the rules at the Intercon. So politics was checking in and out of the hotel just like guests.” – Lyse Doucet [09:28]

• On Cold War alliances:
  “You got Reagan, Thatcher and militant Islamists all going after the Soviet Union and eventually it works, the Soviets withdraw.” – Dan Snow [23:48]

• On watching Kabul’s transformations:
  “For me to be there in Kabul, working for the BBC, when it was said at the time that 95% of Afghans were listening to the BBC, ... I don't think it's apocryphal, but legend has it that ... the guns would fall silent ... as the warring sides would listen to the BBC ... to find out which side was winning the war that day.” – Lyse Doucet [25:58]

• On hopes raised and dashed:
  “Finally, they were electing ... their leader ... it was one of those moments that are seared in Afghan memory. ... Afghans dared to hope that there was something to hope for.” – [40:46]

• On contemporary Afghanistan:
  “In many ways it’s worse, it’s more harsh than it was in the 1990s ... Afghanistan, again, seems as though it’s being pushed back into another century.” – [57:28]

• On the human cost of war:
  “The human side of the war was considered in the coverage of the first and Second World War, when women weren't allowed ... but ... from the wars of our time, what happens to people? ... The enormous human consequences of wars of our time ... should be front and center.” – Lyse Doucet [61:45]

Notable Timestamps

• 00:38–03:48: Dan’s evocative intro; Lyse Doucet’s background; the analogy between the hotel and Afghanistan’s history
• 05:15–09:16: Geography’s influence on history, the Soviet and American infrastructural footprints
• 09:28–17:38: Monarchy to communism; coups of the 70s–80s; changes at the Intercontinental
• 17:38–27:31: Soviet miscalculations, Cold War alliances, the mujahideen, the aftermath of withdrawal
• 27:31–34:44: Mujahideen’s civil war, arrival of the Taliban, coup-de-cultural-shock at the hotel
• 35:38–40:46: 9/11, US intervention, fall of the Taliban, birth of democracy and fleeting hope
• 42:07–49:08: Why the Taliban returned; foreign missteps; surge, drawdowns and legacy of the occupation
• 51:54–55:48: Final withdrawal, Kabul’s fall, comparisons with Soviet and American exits
• 55:48–58:32: The hotel today under Taliban rule; status of Afghan women and society
• 58:32–63:21: The emotional toll of reporting, the role of journalism, concluding reflections

Concluding Thoughts

Lyse Doucet’s account offers an unparalleled, empathetic perspective on Afghanistan’s “rise, fall, and rise” of the Taliban and the international community’s repeated missteps. Through the changing fortunes of a single hotel, the listener gains a visceral sense of Afghanistan’s heartbreak, resilience, and complexity. The story ends with a call for greater awareness of the human cost of political and military decisions—a plea for better journalism and deeper understanding.

Dan Snow:
“We need you ... we need good journalism, proper commitment to finding out what's going on and telling the stories more than ever.” [62:56]

Lyse Doucet’s book:
The Finest Hotel in Kabul