Dan Snow's History Hit

Episode: The Troubles Explained (Part 2)

Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Dan Snow
Guest: Dr. Thomas Leahy (Senior Lecturer, Cardiff University)

Overview

This episode, the second in a miniseries, dives into the modern history of the Troubles—the conflict in Northern Ireland—unpacking how and why events unfolded from the Irish War of Independence through the Good Friday Agreement. Dan Snow is joined by Dr. Thomas Leahy, an expert on contemporary British and Irish politics, who guides listeners through the guerrilla war, partition, civil rights movement, the Troubles themselves, and the eventual peace process.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Irish War of Independence (1919–1921)

• Guerrilla Tactics: Following the lessons of the failed Easter Rising, the IRA adopted "war of the flea" tactics, orchestrated by Michael Collins.
  • Thomas Leahy [05:01]: “The idea of people such as Michael Collins...we’re going to engage in hit-and-run tactics...the war of the flea.”
• British Response: The British government cracked down with ruthless paramilitary support—the Black and Tans—resulting in cycles of ambush and reprisal.
  • Dan Snow [10:06]: “They were poorly disciplined. They were notorious for their brutality...their presence really antagonized the Irish.”
• Cycle of Violence: Events such as Bloody Sunday (1920) and the burning of Cork typified the tit-for-tat escalation.

2. Partition & Civil War

• Anglo-Irish Treaty (1921): Established the Irish Free State but partitioned six counties in the north, leaving them part of the UK.
  • Dan Snow [12:39]: “It means the Republic of Ireland will be born, covering most...but not the six counties in the north which remain part of the United Kingdom.”
• Civil War (1922–23): A bitter internal conflict over the Treaty, culminating in the death of Michael Collins and the solidification of partition.
  • Thomas Leahy [12:39]: “A sizable minority...did not accept this...there was a close vote...the big thing is the 49% walked out and declared they were to set up a separate government.”

3. The Northern Ireland State: Discrimination & Political Strain

• Design of Northern Ireland: Boundaries drawn to maintain Protestant/Unionist majorities.
  • Thomas Leahy [16:02]: “The reason...six counties are chosen is because that would have given [Protestants] the largest majority feasible for them to hold on.”
• Systemic Discrimination: Catholics faced significant obstacles in housing, employment, and franchise, fueling resentment.
  • Thomas Leahy [20:53]: “Social housing...a really key area...a single Protestant lady...was given a house...over a large Catholic family where there was greater need.”

4. The Civil Rights Movement (1960s)

• Inspired by the US: Young Catholics, increasingly educated post-war, modeled protests on US civil rights activism.
  • Thomas Leahy [20:49]: “The second big factor here is the global climate. And what we’ve got...is Martin Luther King and the US civil rights movement. That’s where they picked up their tactic.”
• Escalating Tensions: Marches, heavy-handed policing, and loyalist counterprotests increased community division and violence.
  • Dan Snow [23:52]: “There are marches, there are fights...you see heavy-handed policing, water cannons, batons being wielded...the British government cannot look away.”

5. Descent into the Troubles

• Battle of the Bogside (1969): A major riot in Derry marks the onset of sustained violence and military involvement.
  • Thomas Leahy [26:59]: “People go there, you can still see this today...the Protestant population...would march on the city walls...tensions because of civil rights...just got again little bits of skirmish and some stone throwing, etc...the British troops had to enter.”
• British Army Deployment: Initially to maintain order and protect communities, the army’s role quickly became contentious.
  • Dan Snow [35:19]: “For the first time in generations, the British army was sent into Northern Ireland to keep the peace...trying to please all parties...was impossible.”

6. Escalation: Internment, Bloody Sunday, and Direct Rule

• Internment without Trial (1971): Mass arrests inflamed tensions, disproportionately targeting nationalists.
• Bloody Sunday (1972): British paratroopers killed 14 unarmed civil rights protestors, triggering outrage and IRA recruitment.
  • Thomas Leahy [41:26]: “The army units...decided we’re going to have a snatch and arrest operation...but...14 unarmed civilians were shot dead...Lord Saville’s verdict was these people were not posing a threat.”
• Direct Rule: London dissolved the Stormont Parliament, recognizing that the crisis could no longer be managed locally.
  • Dan Snow [45:57]: “The British government got rid of the Northern Irish Parliament and assumed direct control...you cannot leave it to this devolved administration.”

7. Violence, Stalemate, and Shifting Politics

• Escalation into Full Conflict: Early 1970s saw bombings and counter-terror, with 1972 a particular low point.
  • Dan Snow [55:45]: “1972...the nadir...the IRA detonated on 21 July 1972, 22 bombs in Belfast in one day.”
• Spread of Conflict: Loyalist bombings in the Republic of Ireland and IRA bombings in England sought to pressure governments and public alike.
  • Thomas Leahy [57:16]: “A bomb in like County Tyrone or Fermanagh...didn’t really resonate anymore...one bomb in England was worth 10 in Ireland.”

8. The Long Road to Peace

• Political Engagement and Peace Process: By the 1990s, exhaustion and stalemate pervaded both sides; secret backchannel talks intensified.
  • Thomas Leahy [63:50]: “Key factor is an armed and political stalemate...everyone...just reached a stalemate situation where trying to work out a political solution seemed the kind of optimum solution...if you wanted a permanent...political solution, you probably had to involve Sinn Fein and the IRA because the percentage of support it had.”
• Innovations of the Good Friday Agreement (1998):
  • Self-determination and concurrent referenda.
  • Power-sharing governance model.
  • Dual nationality option for Northern Irish residents.
  • Inclusive negotiations bringing paramilitary-linked parties to the table.
  • Thomas Leahy [67:42]: “The power sharing setup...an incentive there because you want to get rid of direct rule. Then you have to power share again. That probably means you have to compromise...an inclusive process, it can help to try and remedy some of the grievances.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the futility of armed clashes (War of Independence):
  • Thomas Leahy [05:01]: “No point having set piece battles with the British Army...they’re better trained, better equipped, we will lose.”
• On the effect of British reprisals:
  • Dan Snow [10:06]: “Instead of pacifying the population, they drove many towards supporting Republicanism.”
• On the inevitability of partition:
  • Thomas Leahy [16:02]: “They wanted a big [Protestant] majority...in their belief...if we allow Catholics any influence…we’ll all be discriminated against.”
• On the shifting global context:
  • Thomas Leahy [20:49]: “Martin Luther King and the US Civil Rights movement...that’s where they picked up their tactic...it was effective.”
• On military stalemate and peace:
  • Thomas Leahy [63:50]: “Key factor is an armed and political stalemate between all sides...if you wanted a permanent...political solution, you probably had to involve Sinn Fein and the IRA.”
• On the Good Friday Agreement’s inclusivity:
  • Thomas Leahy [67:42]: “It tried to include as many parties as possible, including those with the paramilitary wings...no one’s exactly really satisfied...but no one’s mega disappointed either because they feel their viewpoint...has been listened to.”

Timestamps of Major Segments

• [04:20] – Start of main discussion: recap of Part 1 and introduction to Part 2 with guest Thomas Leahy
• [05:01] – The guerrilla nature of the Irish War of Independence
• [10:06] – British reprisals, Black and Tans, and their effect
• [12:39] – Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition
• [14:13] – Irish Civil War
• [16:02] – Partition’s rationale and enduring impact
• [18:47] – Discrimination against Catholics in Northern Ireland
• [20:49] – Postwar changes and the rise of civil rights activism
• [23:52] – The civil rights marches and global context
• [26:59] – The Battle of the Bogside and escalation into the Troubles
• [35:19] – British Army deployment and the start of the Troubles
• [41:26] – Internment and Bloody Sunday
• [45:57] – Abolition of Stormont and direct rule from Westminster
• [55:45] – Apex of violence and spread beyond Northern Ireland
• [63:42] – Factors behind the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement
• [67:42] – Key elements of the Good Friday Agreement

Conclusion & Takeaways

Dan Snow and Dr. Thomas Leahy provide a robust, accessible account of the Troubles, making sense of the complex interplay between political strategy, violence, identity, and peacemaking. Each escalation and policy move is set in nuanced historical and psychological context, underlining the multi-decade journey from entrenched conflict to reluctant, but transformative, peace.

“Trying to have an inclusive process, it can help to try and remedy some of the grievances that are there.”
— Dr. Thomas Leahy [67:42]

For context on British and Irish history leading up to the Troubles, see Part 1 of this miniseries.