3 | Tree of Liberty

Summary

Manifesto with Dan Taberski – Episode 3: "Tree of Liberty"

Release Date: July 20, 2026
Host: Dan Taberski
Main Guests: Dave Ridley (Free State Project participant), Jason Sorens (Free State Project founder), Karen Steele (New Hampshire resident), Bill Barker (Thomas Jefferson interpreter)

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Episode Overview

In "Tree of Liberty," Dan Taberski explores how manifestos—especially political ones—are often declarations of independence, inspired by foundational documents like the Communist Manifesto or the US Declaration of Independence. Through the story of the Free State Project and its ambitious goal to create a libertarian enclave in New Hampshire, the episode probes what it means to seek independence, the ethics of imposing radical change on an existing community, and the sometimes uncomfortable line between active citizenship and agitation. Taberski also reflects on the romantic—and occasionally dangerous—appeal of starting over, speaking with actual and historical participants in American experiments of independence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Allure of Declaring Independence

• Dan opens with a fantasy of escaping society (00:00):
  “I stop looking at the news. … I pack a suitcase, I grab the dog and a couple protein bars, and I walk away from all this.”
• He connects with Dave Ridley, whose actions resemble Dan's imagined escape—but for real.
• Taberski posits that political manifestos boil down to two archetypes:
  • The Communist Manifesto (“Big Daddy”) and
  • The Declaration of Independence (the “breakup letter”)
    • Quote: “The best of them give the energy of a great breakup letter. Here’s all the reasons I’m leaving. All the reasons it’s too late to fix this. All the reasons I’m going to be so much happier without you.” (04:52)

Origins of the Free State Project

• Jason Sorens’ Manifesto (05:38):
  • Problem: Libertarians are dispersed, ineffective.
  • Solution: Relocate 20,000 libertarians to one small state to achieve actual political power.
    • “What if we found a state that was really already pretty sympathetic to our ideas and we got a bunch of people to move there?” (06:43)
  • No one moves until they reach a critical mass (20,000 sign-ups).
  • Possibility of legal secession is debated; Sorens asserts it’s at least legal to suggest (“Oh, yeah, First Amendment. You can suggest whatever you like.” [08:07])

Making the Leap: The Move to New Hampshire

• Dave Ridley’s Journey (08:43–11:38):
  • Initially joins as a “friend,” but quickly commits fully:
    • “Within two months I had completely signed up. ... I'm moving, I'm going where you guys pick a place, I'm heading there.” (08:54)
  • The project votes and settles on New Hampshire for its low population and existing libertarian history (“Live free or die”).
  • Ridley jumps in: “Carve out a place where people can live and be left alone. That would be really something to put on your tombstone.” (11:56)

From Dream to Disruption: Implementing the Manifesto

• Ridley starts activism immediately (13:14+):

  • Protests at IRS office—even though NH has no state income tax—because “there’s still an income tax at the federal level.” (14:37)
  • Begins filming confrontational “Ridley Report” videos:
    • “Filming just really triggers authoritarians.” (15:27)
    • “If it makes them so angry, just go out and try to … don’t do anything that’s wrong or unethical, and get attacked.” (15:27)

• As Free Staters arrive, locals grow uneasy at efforts to alter local governance (17:58+):

  • Karen Steele: “We were already here. We're here now, and they're trying to impose their will on the rest of us.” (20:03)

Secession and Escalation

• By 2022, Free Staters are pushing a bill for New Hampshire to secede from the US.
  • Karen Steele: “It is serious, and I took it seriously.” (20:33)
  • Steele campaigns to bar secessionists from holding public office.
  • Confrontations grow heated and personal:
    • Ridley and supporters heckle Steele in a parking lot:
      “Do you feel like they deserve to die because they have darker skin than we do?” (22:05)
    • Taberski: “It’s not war, but it’s not peace either, is it? It’s not outright violence, but it’s getting louder out there.” (22:28)

Democracy’s "Natural Manure" – Examining Jefferson’s Legacy

• Bill Barker as Thomas Jefferson (24:31+):
  • Discusses the roots and contradictions of “the manifesto”
  • Jefferson’s famous "tree of liberty" quote in context:
    • “What country before ever existed without rebellion? … The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” (28:43)
  • Taberski presses—doesn’t this invite constant revolution, even violence?
    • Jefferson/Barker: “When it happens again, we need to reflect who are being disallowed these rights? … A coup on behalf of a minority or a revolution … on behalf of a majority.” (30:09)
  • On fear and revolution:
    • “We must continue to hang together, because if we do not, we will certainly hang separately.” (31:34)

The Reality Check

• The Free State Project’s Results:

  • A 2022 NH secession vote gets only 13 of 400 legislators (33:46)
  • 6,000–10,000 actual Free Stater movers; influence is incremental, not revolutionary.
  • Taberski’s conclusion: Being a “gadfly” (an irritant) is essential for democracy, but new declarations of independence are problematic when they force change upon unwilling neighbors.
    • “Our Venn diagrams have too much overlap, and one man’s independence too often seems to become everyone else’s burden.” (34:44)

• Free State Project becomes as much about forging community as ideology:

  • “Getting a bunch of new friends out of it and having an adventure.” (35:23)

Pushing Toward the Future

• Manifestos can be hopeful, not just angry:
  • Jefferson: “I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past.” (36:52)
• Taberski imagines the allure and the potential danger of manifestos that inspire, disrupt, and, sometimes, bring unintended consequences.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the essential structure of manifestos:
  “The best of them give the energy of a great breakup letter. ‘Here’s all the reasons I’m leaving. … I’m going to be so much happier without you.’” — Dan Taberski (04:52)
• On activism and agitation:
  “Filming just really triggers authoritarians. … If it makes them so angry, just go out and try to … don’t do anything that’s wrong or unethical, and get attacked.” — Dave Ridley (15:27)
• On the internal contradictions:
  “You’re very focused on independence … but there’s something about your approach where you won’t leave people alone.” — Dan Taberski to Ridley (19:12)
• On majority vs. minority revolutions:
  “A coup on behalf of a minority or a revolution … on behalf of a majority.” — Bill Barker as Thomas Jefferson (30:09)
• On the real-life price of bold manifestos:
  “What had been written ... could be our death warrant.” — Bill Barker as Thomas Jefferson (31:34)
• On personal motivation for joining a radical cause:
  “Downsizing the government and getting a bunch of new friends out of it and having an adventure. How can you say no to that?” — Dave Ridley (35:23)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00: Dan’s dream of dropping out, meeting Dave Ridley
• 05:38: Introduction to Jason Sorens and the Free State Project manifesto
• 08:43–11:13: Dave Ridley signs on, NH chosen as Free State project destination
• 13:14–17:19: Ridley’s activism, “Ridley Report,” and activism tactics
• 17:56–20:22: Arrival of Free Staters and growing tension with locals
• 20:22–22:28: Secessionist activism, Karen Steele’s resistance, and confrontations
• 24:31–32:39: Bill Barker as Jefferson, legacy and contradictions of the Declaration
• 33:46: Reality of the secession vote—just 13 of 400 lawmakers in favor
• 34:44: Taberski’s manifesto on manifestos—call against new declarations of independence
• 36:52–end: Manifestos as futures, optimism, and next episode tease

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Tone and Style

Taberski’s style is wry, self-reflective, and both critical and empathetic—he’s quick to acknowledge both the romantic appeal of independence and its unsettling ripple effects, unafraid to needle both his subjects and himself. The episode blends historical examination, on-the-ground reporting, and playful philosophical inquiry, offering a nuanced take on the meaning and power of manifestos in American life.

Transcript

[Dan Tabursky]

Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Dan Tabursky's manifesto early and ad free. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. I've been having sexy dreams lately. Kind of a recurring fantasy. You know what I do in the dream? What I do is I stop looking at the news. I stop engaging. I stop pretending my one vote matters at all. Because compared to an oligarch's trillions, in this dream, I just shut my laptop, I pack a suitcase, I grab the dog and a couple protein bars, and I walk away from all this. Misha Goss Hot, right? I go somewhere cheap but green and far away. Just a few dozen acres, a securable perimeter, well, water, and room enough to build a few small homes for my family and my friends and my friends friends. Even though, yes, they can be irritating. But genetic diversity will be important down the road if we're going to form this new society. Nothing radical or weird, just like a very small version of this society before it went off the rails. Sound nice? You know, it does. Anyway, I recently met a guy who had a really similar dream. But the difference between him and me, he made his dream come true. Do you prefer Dave or David?

[Dave Ridley]

Oh, I go by Dave. Takes less time to say,

[Dan Tabursky]

you in a hurry? You in a hurry, Dave?

[Dave Ridley]

George Orwell said, never use a long word when you can use a short word.

[Dan Tabursky]

In 2001, Dave Ridley was living in Dallas, Texas, single, no kids, working as a video editor at the local Fox affiliate. Pretty much your basic and neo conservative at the time.

[Dave Ridley]

I was still kind of a normie and still kind of in the system,

[Dan Tabursky]

but the system itself had started becoming a poor fit. Dave's politics had been evolving. It started right around the time he was preparing for Y2K and bought a handgun.

[Dave Ridley]

And I hadn't come quite to grips with just how many gun restrictions there were.

[Dan Tabursky]

Everywhere it seemed like, see, now I hear Texas. And I think, great, if you're a gun lover, they got some of the most lax gun laws in the country. That's not how Dave saw it.

[Dave Ridley]

Once you become a gun owner, then you start. That's where you really have the red pill. Because suddenly you're like, wait, I can't go in this building, I can't go in that building. I'm allowed to do this, but not that. And I'm required to fill out this, but I can't fill out that. And I have to admit this and I can't admit that. So you suddenly realize, oh, I Wasn't in a free country after all.

[Dan Tabursky]

To be fair, Dave and his gun are extremely close.

[Dave Ridley]

So if I was gonna go jog for a long distance, I might take a firearm with me. And so wait a second.

[Dan Tabursky]

You jog with. Sorry, this is just the practicalities of it. You jog with a firearm. Isn't that heavy?

[Dave Ridley]

Well, you get more exact.

[Dan Tabursky]

The point. His patience for government rules and interference, even for government at all, was evaporating. Texan Dave Ridley, like a lot of people, if we're being honest, was looking to be left alone. And though he didn't totally know it yet, at the time, he was ready to declare his independence. Dan. I'm Dan Tabursky from Audible Originals and please and thanks Productions. This is Manifesto. Episode 3, the Tree of Liberty. So here's my big revelation. After being ass deep in manifestos for way too long now, the majority of manifestos, especially political manifestos, they secretly long in their heart of hearts to be one of two things. They're either trying to be the Communist Manifesto, AKA Big Daddy, or when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to establish, or they're trying to be, the Declaration of Independence. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. When Thomas Jefferson laid out this argument so poetically, the solution wasn't, everyone unite, nothing to lose but our chains type language, it was, you know what? This blows. We're out of here. Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government, laying its foundations to extricate yourself, to start fresh. Manifestos have been declaring independence ever since. States from countries, the Internet, from the physical world, women from men and penile imperialism. Their phrase, but it's mine now. I get a little thrill every time I find a new one. The best of them give the energy of a great breakup letter. Here's all the reasons I'm leaving. All the reasons it's too late to fix this. All the reasons I'm going to be so much happier without you.

[Jason Sorens]

You know, I think the manifesto came from just a feeling that things aren't working. And I couldn't bear to think that. I just have to reconcile myself to that.

[Dan Tabursky]

This is Jason Sorens, the guy whose manifesto would change Texan Dave Ridley's life. And a lot of other people besides. In 2001, while Dave Ridley was gnashing his teeth in Texas, Sorens was in New England, a frustrated libertarian working on the text of a plan, a blueprint for the most radical call to action he could imagine. Sentence number one. Libertarian activists need to face a somber Nothing is working. Sorens writes that there are about 40,000 deuce paying libertarians in the country at the time. Problem is they're scattered all over the country. There's never enough libertarians in any one place to have any real pull anywhere to solve. Of course, find more libertarians, but not for Sorens. He proposes another way. What if they just take the libertarians they've already got and move them around a bit?

[Jason Sorens]

And what if we found a state that was really already pretty sympathetic to our ideas and we got a bunch of people to move there?

[Dan Tabursky]

What I propose is a free State project in which freedom minded people of all stripes establish residence in a small state and take over the state government. Sorens was familiar with other secessionist and autonomous movements that people had tried. He had spent years studying them.

[Jason Sorens]

There had been attempts to create an artificial island in the Caribbean. There had been an attempt to settle in some kind of atoll in the Pacific. There had been a lady who wanted everyone to move to Fort Collins, Colorado for some reason.

[Dan Tabursky]

But none of them worked, in part because there was a coordination problem. Meaning, what if I'm like, yeah, let's move everybody and I show up to Fort Collins or whatever and I'm the only jackass actually did it.

[Jason Sorens]

I know that moving is a big deal and I'm giving up a lot if I just move and no one else moves.

[Dan Tabursky]

So Soren's manifesto lays out a fix. People sign up and commit to moving, but no one actually does it until they hit 20,000 signups. That's what triggers it. That's when everyone moves. Once there, take over, shrink the government down to nothing and maybe, just maybe, go all the way to secession. Is it legal to suggest secession from the United States?

[Jason Sorens]

Oh, yeah, First Amendment. You can suggest whatever you like.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is it legal to do it?

[Jason Sorens]

That is a controversial question.

[Dan Tabursky]

The manifesto goes up online announcement the Free State Project. The uptake is slow at first, but steady. A couple hundred sign up in those first few months as a manifesto gets passed around and eventually it wanders into the sights of Dave Ridley back in Texas.

[Dave Ridley]

So I discovered, I properly discovered the Free State Project. I joined their web forum and I just said, I'm just joining up as a friend. I'm not signing the intent to move or anything.

[Dan Tabursky]

Totally, totally.

[Dave Ridley]

Within two months I had completely signed up. You know, oh, I'm moving, I'm going where you guys pick a place, I'm heading there.

[Dan Tabursky]

So they hadn't even picked. They hadn't even picked a place yet. That is how down he was. It didn't even matter where it was going to be.

[Dave Ridley]

This idea of downsizing the government in a way that had never been tried before and getting a bunch of new friends out of it and having an adventure. How can you say no to that? I can't believe we're even having to recruit people.

[Dan Tabursky]

I can't believe that people would jump right into it. I find it shocking.

[Dave Ridley]

I guess it just, it felt like you get tired of just looking at the world and talking about the world and being acted on by the world. And this was a chance to act on the world.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yes, a chance to act on the world, to take the leap, take any leap. Now is this the thing to which I would have leapt? Absolutely no. But no matter. The point here isn't to agree or disagree with David Lee's politics. It's the enthusiasm. It's that vibe of full throated total body commitment. If I could, I swear to God I'd roll it up and smoke it. Or at the very least put it on Dan Tabursky's 11 point manifesto on manifestos. Point four. And this one goes out to all you manifesto followers out there. You gotta take the leap. In 18 months they top 5,000 signups. 5,000 people actually committing to uproot their lives and start over for this idea. So they launch phase two, the search for a state to move to think low population states.

[Dave Ridley]

Idaho, Vermont, Delaware.

[Dan Tabursky]

The smaller the population, the easier it'll be for the Free Staters to take over politically. And which one did you want?

[Dave Ridley]

I initially wanted Wyoming.

[Dan Tabursky]

He actually goes to Wyoming on a scouting trip for the group.

[Dave Ridley]

I did not get the strong feeling that we would be very welcome there.

[Dan Tabursky]

Eventually the Free Staters put it to a vote. Sorens holds a press conference, his manifesto actually producing results. A new state that they would descend on and call home.

[Jason Sorens]

Welcome. And without any further ado, I give you the chosen state of the Free State Project.

[Bill Barker]

New Hampshire.

[Dan Tabursky]

New Hampshire. The Granite State. A strong libertarian streak already. It's where Velcro was invented, for Pete's sake. Prime for the takeover.

[Dave Ridley]

Live free or die. No sales tax, no income tax. Is there something else we need to know?

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, and Dave will be part of the first Free Stater wave threw all

[Dave Ridley]

my stuff in a Pinsky. I'd never been in New Hampshire before and just drove it there. Carve out a place where people can live and be left alone. That would be really something to put on your tombstone.

[Dan Tabursky]

What could be more American? When you've reached your limit and your freedom feels in danger, to declare your independence and build something new from scratch, it's like 1776 all over again. But there's a rather large wrinkle to this plan, the same wrinkle we had in 1776. Coincidentally, the place that the Free Staters had chosen already had a bunch of people living there and calling it home. And they might have a question or two for the Free Staters when they arrive.

[Bill Barker]

In 2021, a man is arrested in a Glasgow Covid ward. Police say he is fugitive Nicholas Rossi. He claims to be an Irish orphan, Arthur Knight.

[Dave Ridley]

I am not Nicholas Rosie.

[Bill Barker]

But that was only the beginning. Join me, Jane McSorley, for I am Not Nicholas. You can binge all episodes of series one and two early and ad free by joining Audible on the Audible app or Apple Podcasts.

[Dave Ridley]

Dave Ridley here, reporting in for NHFree.com and this is the Ridley Report.

[Dan Tabursky]

After Dave Ridley arrived in New Hampshire in 2004, he started recording on a camcorder, dropping the videos on YouTube, calling it the Ridley Report.

[Dave Ridley]

It seems appropriate to show you some of the beauty of New Hampshire, chronicling

[Dan Tabursky]

the adventure he had just embarked on as one of the first wave of Free Staters.

[Dave Ridley]

This is one of those countless lakes that I seem to pass all the time and I still don't know its name, but it's beautiful.

[Dan Tabursky]

But remember, the Free State Manifesto wasn't about moving to New Hampshire to sightsee. They signed a pledge. It was about taking over and making New Hampshire the libertarian utopia of their dreams. Dave Ridley barely unpacked.

[Dave Ridley]

I mean, like, I just grabbed a. Like, I just ran to the nearest store and grabbed the nearest whiteboard and started drawing a sign on it. It said something like, irs out of New Hampshire. And I just drove to the nearest IRS office and just stood in front of it with that sign as soon as I could.

[Dan Tabursky]

Why?

[Dave Ridley]

Why?

[Dan Tabursky]

Like, what? They already don't have a sales tax or an income tax? Like, why was your immediate thought to go after the irs?

[Dave Ridley]

Well, there's still an income tax at the federal level because New Hampshire is still part of the federal system. So this was the. To me, this seemed like the most onerous thing that was happening to people who lived in New Hampshire. And I had to do Something about it.

[Dan Tabursky]

So.

[Dave Ridley]

And I had to a homeless person take my picture. I think I still have the picture. So it felt great. You know, it was completely useless, but it felt great.

[Dan Tabursky]

And now his job, as he saw it, was to get people to do what he did. Sign up, commit, take that leap, get the Free State project signups over that 20,000 mark to trigger the big move and make history.

[Dave Ridley]

Well, I think Gandhi once said that to move your cause forward, you have to generate a response. You have to get attacked. That's how you move forward.

[Dan Tabursky]

And Dave and his video camera figured out how to get that response.

[Dave Ridley]

That's what filming does. I mean, filming just really triggers authoritarians. And so that's obviously the thing we should be doing. If it makes them so angry, just go out and try to follow the law and don't do anything that's wrong or unethical and get attacked. You are being audio. You're being audio and video recording.

[Dan Tabursky]

You can put that down now, sir.

[Dave Ridley]

I'm not going to comply with that order. You can arrest me if you want. For audio, video. Do you work for the school district?

[Karen Steele]

I serve on the school board.

[Dave Ridley]

My understanding is there's a gun ban in effect here. Would you be willing to take responsibility for anything bad that happens to me as a result of you disarming me?

[Dan Tabursky]

In other words, filming the front lines of the battle for freedom would get them the converts he wanted. All he had to do was gin up the battle part.

[Dave Ridley]

Can you name something you've done from your position to help reduce taxpayer expenditures?

[Bill Barker]

Um, I. I don't.

[Dan Tabursky]

In what regard? I'm not really sure what.

[Dave Ridley]

In any regard.

[Dan Tabursky]

This here is outside a school board meeting.

[Dave Ridley]

Why should I, as a taxpayer, be forced to underwrite your salary?

[Dan Tabursky]

Underwrite our salary? I'm sorry, I'm going to the restroom.

[Dave Ridley]

That I will not film. Film a politician that doesn't want you to film them, and they freak out and drop their portfolio of paperwork and call the security on you, and then they call the cops, and pretty soon you've got a video that's at 400,000 hits. Do you feel like it's.

[Dan Tabursky]

And please don't.

[Dave Ridley]

Do you feel like it's constitutional?

[Dan Tabursky]

I don't care for First Amendment. People don't. There's about 3,600 videos like this on Dave's YouTube channel. Here he is trying to recite the Second Amendment to a security guard.

[Dave Ridley]

If you're gonna kick my ass for saying the Constitution, then you're gonna kick my ass.

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm just Asking you to leave me out of here.

[Dave Ridley]

Let me finish reading it to you.

[Dan Tabursky]

And according to Dave, his videos were working.

[Dave Ridley]

It's just people were seeing these videos and then they were getting in their car and moving to New Hampshire. So I felt like I was having an effect.

[Dan Tabursky]

By 2011, they top 11,000 signups, and the tiny community of rabble rousers begins to grow, with Dave at the ready to welcome them home.

[Dave Ridley]

What have you gotten out of moving to New Hampshire, James? A great sense of community and a

[Dan Tabursky]

sense of hope and to welcome them to the fight.

[Dave Ridley]

Anything that I can use to reduce

[Dan Tabursky]

government power, I will use. Apart from killing someone or something insane like that. Well, that's comforting, James. The truth is there is something unusual going on in the Granite State.

[Bill Barker]

Call it a mass migration of sorts.

[Dan Tabursky]

The true believers are arriving. Weekly news reports begin popping up about the influx of arrivals, but making them sound less like new neighbors and more like a bedbug. Infestation.

[Dave Ridley]

But a few vocal residents are convinced

[Karen Steele]

the Newcomers are trying to infiltrate Bedford with their philosophy. And they're starting by running for office.

[Dan Tabursky]

Pretty soon, the Free Staters start running for school boards and town councils. By 2012, a couple of them run for state legislature. By 2013, the Free State project is up to nearly 14,000 signups. And Dave Ridley soldiers on being annoying in the name of liberty. How many times you've been arrested?

[Dave Ridley]

3.

[Dan Tabursky]

There's an article in the Nashua Telegraph a few years back with the headline, bedford man to Nashua Police. Don't touch my junk. Whose junk are we talking about here?

[Dave Ridley]

I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about that one.

[Dan Tabursky]

Name and date of birth. You're on the reverse.

[Dave Ridley]

Okay, okay.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's okay. It's on his YouTube channel.

[Dave Ridley]

If I just grab my crotch.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is there something ironic about your approach here? First, because it's. You're very. You're obviously very focused on independence, like you want to be left alone. But there's something about your approach where you won't leave people alone.

[Bill Barker]

Hmm.

[Dan Tabursky]

Like, you almost take pleasure in it.

[Dave Ridley]

Do not bother the Free Staters, and the Free Staters will not bother you. I mean, it's just filming and asking a question. There's so little accountability at any level of government in the United States right now that if you can just. If you can just stand in front of one of the camera and ask a question, that's more accountability than they've had all month, probably. So even if it wasn't, even if it's not recruiting People or getting a lot of hits, at least someone's being sort of held accountable.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is there any part of you that sort of sympathizes with the free staters?

[Karen Steele]

No. No. They have decided that New Hampshire is up for grabs.

[Dan Tabursky]

Karen Steele has called New Hampshire home for. For most of her life.

[Karen Steele]

I mean, that is exactly what their manifesto was all about. Right? We all need to move to one state and take it over. And so I think manifesting your own future is great, but we were already here. We're here now, and they're trying to impose their will on the rest of us.

[Dan Tabursky]

By 2022, a free stater had been elected to the state house and was pushing a plan for New Hampshire to secede from the nation. And when Karen found out about it, she blew her top.

[Karen Steele]

The concept of secession, it's illegal. We've had a civil war that, you know, that confirmed that there is no such thing as secession. States don't have a right to secede. I mean, it is serious, and I took it seriously.

[Dan Tabursky]

She starts wondering why secessionists would even be eligible for public office in the state at all.

[Karen Steele]

And before I know it, I'm on the agenda for the ballot law commission.

[Dan Tabursky]

Four days later, this is Karen making her pitch at that committee meeting in Concord trying to get secessionists banned from holding public office.

[Karen Steele]

I find it alarming that some of our elected officials spend their time planning on how New Hampshire should secede from the union.

[Dan Tabursky]

Were you concerned about raising a complaint like this as a woman named Karen?

[Karen Steele]

No, not at all. No. I have no issues, especially since Becky came along and all the other ones that they've come up with. And I think, like, it's not all

[Dan Tabursky]

just Karen's, but she made herself a target. Have you ever met Dave Ridley?

[Karen Steele]

Oh, he was right in my face. Yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

Really?

[Karen Steele]

Several times. Yep.

[Dan Tabursky]

Just right in your face.

[Karen Steele]

Oh, yeah. Cameras right in the face.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here's what Dave recorded that day. Video number 800 million. It's Dave and a few compatriots confronting Karen in the parking lot.

[Dave Ridley]

Can you give us an answer? Karen's our hero.

[Dan Tabursky]

It starts off mild, just ironic heckling. Thank you, Karen. I just want to say I really appreciate murder of a million Iraqis by your heroes in the federal government over a lie. But it escalates.

[Bill Barker]

Do you feel like they deserve to die because they have darker skin than we do?

[Dan Tabursky]

Are you a racist? How do you feel about torture till it sounds like they're about to slug her? Are you a serial killer?

[Bill Barker]

Engage in torture?

[Dave Ridley]

Do you give a Fuck about humanity.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's not war, but it's not peace either, is it? It's not outright violence, but it's getting louder out there.

[Karen Steele]

It's abhorrent to me. We are one nation, indivisible.

[Dan Tabursky]

Where is that from?

[Karen Steele]

Pledge of Allegiance. We used to say it every day. And it meant something, and it still means something, and it should mean something.

[Dan Tabursky]

But it seems like maybe the Pledge of Allegiance means something different to Dave Ridley. Like here he is recording the pledge at a city council meeting in Keene.

[Dave Ridley]

And to the gulag for which it stands, one empire, under fraud, completely visible, with lying and spying on all.

[Dan Tabursky]

For Dave, it's yet another chance to tell you, America, all the ways in which you suck, to remind you that this country is not living up to its ideals. To see every opportunity as a chance to piss someone off.

[Dave Ridley]

I don't know. I remember there was a video where some of the Occupy Wall street people were getting dragged away or something from some event, and they were all chanting, this is what democracy looks like. And that's true. Democracy is supposed to be. It's supposed to have a lot of vinegar in it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Hmm. Are you the vinegar?

[Dave Ridley]

I guess.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is this what democracy looks like? Is this what the Declaration of Independence has doomed us to? Is it supposed to be this irritating? If you ask me, Thomas Jefferson has some explaining to do.

[Bill Barker]

Well, when I am in Persona as Mr. Jefferson, it is somewhat like this. I hear it in his letters, and it's distinct lettuce.

[Dan Tabursky]

I love the way you say lettuce.

[Bill Barker]

What Lettuce?

[Dan Tabursky]

This is Bill Barker, an actor who's been playing the role of a lifetime for most of his.

[Bill Barker]

I mean, I didn't set out to do it. It was something that found me. It found me in Philadelphia. The friend of mine who portrayed Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia for a number of years came up to me and said, has anyone ever told you you look like Jefferson? I had long red hair. I was in theater, and I was a history major.

[Dan Tabursky]

Sounds like a big old hippie.

[Bill Barker]

And that. That's how it started.

[Dan Tabursky]

He cobbles together his own costume and starts touring public schools as Thomas Jefferson.

[Bill Barker]

Of course, I'd get questions, and I knew some of the answers, but certainly not all. So I would just jump into it and read, be better prepared the next time. And it just took on a life of its own.

[Dan Tabursky]

He does Jefferson in Philly for 13 years, and then he gets the call to the major leagues, Colonial Williamsburg.

[Bill Barker]

And it went on for 27 years.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Bill Barker]

Until I received an invitation from Monticello

[Dan Tabursky]

Today, if you visit Monticello, Jefferson's Virginia estate, you'll find Bill Barker roaming the grounds. Not just acting as Thomas Jefferson, but being him, embodying him. It's like an Elvis impersonator living out his days at Graceland. At some point, you just become it. I wanted, like. I'm just so enamored with the idea of spending a lifetime living in somebody else's life. I just think. I hope it's as deep a pleasure as I imagine it.

[Bill Barker]

It is a sublime pleasure. Thank you very much. It's being in the moment on the spot to be able to answer any question put to me in that frame of mind, his frame of mind more

[Dan Tabursky]

than any one person, Thomas Jefferson is on the hook. His framing of independence in the original Declaration is what got us here. The UR manifesto for. Leave me alone. So who wants to take this Thomas Jefferson out for a spin? Can I ask you questions as Thomas Jefferson?

[Karen Steele]

Sure.

[Dan Tabursky]

Great.

[Bill Barker]

Sure. Hi. Good day. How are you, sir?

[Dan Tabursky]

Do I call you Mr. President?

[Bill Barker]

Well, I'm called many names, you know that. Over all the years,

[Dan Tabursky]

I'll call you Mr. President. What would you ask? What do you even look to for inspiration? What you were doing was so incredibly new. What were you. Look, how did you even know where to begin?

[Bill Barker]

We were not beginning anything new or original. That was not our business to come up with anything new or original. Rather to reiterate, resuscitate, rejuvenate man's eternal struggle for freedom. Mankind worldwide, from time immemorial to place before the world the common sense of the matter and that matter simply. The mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a few booted and spurred, ready to ride them by the grace of their own particular God, but rather that every individual holds inalienable rights in nature to their life, to their liberty, and simply to be happy, fulfill their capacity.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's a manifesto shot through with hypocrisy from the start, that we know, but so bold. The ideas in there, just the enormity of what they were doing, of how much trouble they were about to stir up. How many lifetimes worth of trouble? I want to ask you about a letter you wrote. And first of all, I think it's really weird that we get to read all your letters. That must make you very uncomfortable.

[Bill Barker]

No, on the contrary, I'm happy to hear it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Really.

[Bill Barker]

I would not have made copies of every letter I've written and saved them without hoping that in the future it might. I want to be gone but they're there for the future. The reading. We're writing for posterity, that people might read and understand what we went through.

[Dan Tabursky]

May I quote you?

[Bill Barker]

You sure may.

[Dan Tabursky]

This letter has been quoted many, many times. What country before ever existed without rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. That last line should ring a bell. It was in Christopher Dorner's manifesto, the one he wrote to explain why he was gunning down cops in Los Angeles, quoting the words of Jefferson himself. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[Bill Barker]

And in, I continued, and in our nation. That is our natural manure.

[Dan Tabursky]

Our natural manure. That's like shit, right? The constant threat of rebellion, the incessant push against power, even violence, in the supposed name of liberty. This is the thing that we want. Once you open that can of worms, like, can you close it back up again? Because it seems like anybody can decide that that moment is now.

[Bill Barker]

Yes, anyone can think, oh, well, now is the time again. It's happening again. And anyone. And it can very well. It will happen again. Let's just be reassured. It will happen again. Such is the nature of man.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Bill Barker]

But when it happens again, we need to reflect who are being disallowed these rights? What is the essence of their complaint? How does it extend to their fellow American? To every other individual? And if it does? Well, then I think you'll find the difference between what could very well become a coup on behalf of a minority or a revolution which certainly commences on behalf of a majority.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is it a few of us who are unhappy, or is it a lot of us? Is it a small deal or is it a big deal? If that seems vague, that's the point. Perhaps it requires diving deep over and over, a constant watchfulness so we'll know when it's time for revolution for real, with stakes infinitely higher than ambushing school board members and the grabbing of junk. Democracy's natural manure. It stinks, but it makes things grow. My last question. You were barely 30 when you were writing the Declaration of Independence. Were you scared?

[Bill Barker]

Well, yes. I'm not going to deny that all of us felt that what had been written, what was then argued and debated and voted on, could be our death warrant. And if that didn't fill us at that moment, on the 4th of July. It certainly filled many on the 2nd of August when in that same room we put our names to that document. We signed it. And I remember Dr. Franklin was seated at the table. I think it was Stephen Hopkinson came to the table. His hand was shaking. And we couldn't help but think unto ourselves in our own hearts how he must have felt. And Dr. Franklin said to all of us seated at the table, gentlemen, rest you assured we must continue to hang together, because if we do not, we will certainly hang separately.

[Dave Ridley]

House will come to water.

[Dan Tabursky]

New Hampshire 2022 Articles of Secession we have this legislation in front of us. It is a bill to destroy the United States, and we are considering legislation to take a star off of that flag. After years of agitating, the free staters who were pushing for secession got the vote they were looking for in the state legislature on New Hampshire seceding from the Union. This state rep is pro secession. And even if this move towards independence

[Jason Sorens]

is illegal or treasonous, which I do

[Dan Tabursky]

not believe it to be, it would be no more so than the one

[Jason Sorens]

in 1776, which is celebrated by everybody in this body. When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal states.

[Dave Ridley]

The whole House had to vote on secessions. Nothing like this had happened in the United States, maybe ever, but certainly since 1865. So it got 13 votes out of how many? Out of, well, 400 state reps. So it's tiny, right?

[Dan Tabursky]

Tiny, but not nothing. As of today, of the over 20,000 people who have signed up and committed to the Free State project, anywhere from 6 to 10,000 of them have actually moved. And they keep coming. There are free staters at pretty much every level of government now in New Hampshire. And Dave Ridley continues to serve the function that Thomas Jefferson foretold. In fact, I think there's a word for what Dave Ridley is. I would call you a gadfly. Is that an insult, or does that feel accurate to you?

[Dave Ridley]

I guess I'm not exactly sure how that's defined, but it's someone who's kind of keeping someone who's.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here's what I got here. A gadfly is defined. Here's a gadfly. Gadfly is. Well, it's a fly that bites livestock. Whatever. But then it's also an annoying person, especially one who provokes others into action by criticism.

[Dave Ridley]

Oh, yeah, that sounds reasonable.

[Dan Tabursky]

Congratulations, you're a gadfly. Although, in my unofficial capacity as manifesto czar, I'm calling it point number five on my manifesto on no more declarations of independence. At least for now. We're too entangled. Our Venn diagrams have too much overlap, and one man's independence too often seems to become everyone else's burden. In fact, for all the talk of independence, I wonder if it's the add ons, the side effects of a movement like this that were the real goal. Like, remember what drew Dave Ridley to this whole thing in the first place?

[Dave Ridley]

This idea of downsizing the government in a way that had never been tried before and getting a bunch of new friends out of it and having an adventure. How can you say no to that?

[Dan Tabursky]

And while watching hours and hours of Dave Ridley videos will make you want to throw yourself out a closed window, they do more than just chronicle their relentless campaign of irritating terror. They also chronicle Dave Ridley's growing feelings for New Hampshire. And as it already is, it's the

[Dave Ridley]

fourth annual Porcupine Fest. Hopefully there will be many more to

[Dan Tabursky]

follow and his growing attachment to the people in it.

[Dave Ridley]

How do you feel about getting this first major snow, Ernie?

[Dan Tabursky]

I hate snow. Worst thing in the world. Old timers as much as the new arrivals. Other than pigeons, this is useless. Useless.

[Dave Ridley]

Hate it.

[Dan Tabursky]

The Free Staters in their manifesto never quite rose to tree of liberty levels of grievance, did they? Not yet. At least for now, they should probably get comfortable with being the manor, which still is not to be sniffed at. But you know, manifestos aren't just about grievance. And neither was Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was hopeful about what was to come, about what we could make of it. In a letter he once wrote to John Adams, Jefferson signed off by saying, I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past. Manifestos are about the future and not just political futures. Truth is the language of revolution. It can be co. Opted, it can be commandeered to inspire people about anything. You can even make people dream of futures that we never even knew we wanted in the first place. Are you an optimist?

[Dave Ridley]

Yeah. Huge optimist.

[Dan Tabursky]

Really? Wow, you answered that quickly. Yeah. What if you could make inspiration from scratch, like in a lab, toiling away with test tubes, until one day you mix just the right ingredients almost by accident, and you create a whole new kind of manifesto. You know, my heart was just racing. I was going, fuck. This is like. This is huge. You feel it?

[Karen Steele]

Yeah.

[Bill Barker]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

Just imagine how much good you could do. Just imagine how much trouble you could cause. Just imagine how much money you could make. I literally just shut my book and I couldn't let anyone see it because when ideas are this new, they're so fragile anyone could kill it. That's next time. Listen to Dan Tabursky's Manifesto on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Dan Tabursky's Manifesto early and ad free. Right now, join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. Dan Tabursky's Manifesto is produced by Audible Originals and Please and Thanks Productions. It's produced by Ben Goldberg and Zandra Ellen. Our fact checker is Natsumi Ajasaka. Original music mixing and mastering by Greg Martin. Dan Tabursky's Manifesto was written and executive produced by me, Dan Tabursky Executive producers for Please and Thanks Productions Joel Lovell and Henry Malofsky. Managing producer for Audible is Sierra Franco. Executive producer for Audible is Julia Lowery Henderson. The head of Creative Development at Audible is Kate Navin, the head of Audible Originals North America is Marshall Louie and the Chief Content Officer is Rachel Giazza. Copyright 2026 by Audible Originals, LLC. Sound Recording Copyright 2026 by Audible Originates LL.