Teen Beat: Salt-N-Pepa

Summary

The Danielle Fishel Shows
Episode: Salt-N-Pepa
Air Date: August 5, 2026
Host: Danielle Fishel
Guests: Salt (Cheryl James) & Pepa (Sandra Denton)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of "Teen Beat" within The Danielle Fishel Shows features an in-depth, nostalgia-soaked, and often hilarious interview with hip hop legends Salt-N-Pepa. The conversation traces their unlikely rise from Sears co-workers to cultural icons, explores their trailblazing as women in rap, unpacks iconic songs and fashion, and ventures into the hard realities of ownership battles. The tone is candid, fun, and deeply appreciative, making the episode as educational as it is entertaining.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Humble Beginnings and Chemistry

• Working at Sears with Future Stars

  • Both Salt and Pepa started out as customer service reps at Sears, alongside Play (from Kid and Play) and Martin Lawrence.
    • "You both worked there as customer service reps. So first I must know what are the worst phone calls you got while there?" (05:01)
    • The energy in the room full of dreamers encouraged everyone to help each other if "one made it first."
    • First shows had Martin Lawrence as their opener:

      “We always said, whoever makes it first will help out the other one. So we got put on first. And our first shows, we had Martin Lawrence opening for us to do his comedy. So we was bringing hip hop and comedy before its time.” (08:44, Salt)

  • They describe playing spades at Queensborough College instead of attending liberal arts classes, with humor about cultural differences ("I'm Jamaican. I had to go to class.") (07:47, Salt)

• Their Friendship’s Spark

  • Complete opposites at first; Salt was the outgoing "punk rock" one with "blunt blonde hair and leopard safety pins," Pepa, the quiet observer.

    “That opposite attract thing is a real thing.” (07:02, Pepper)

  • Their bond was forged over a similar sense of humor—laughing at things no one else understood.

    “You know when you have a friend that you just have this warped sense of humor with… you had to be there.” (08:07, Pepper and Salt)

---

2. Breaking Into Hip Hop

• Their Breakout Song

  • The duo got their start by recording "The Showstopper" as part of a school project for Salt’s boyfriend, Herbie "Love Bug" Azor.
  • Salt was skeptical about making music a career at first:

    “I did not think I was going to do that at all. Like, at all, at all, at all. … I had a more difficult time in the beginning with it…” (09:29, Salt)

  • The thrill of hearing their song on the radio for the first time is vividly described:

    “I threw that car in park, like, so fast, and I screamed... We was like, we on the radio. We're on the radio jumping out the car.” (10:35, Salt)

• Legacy Milestones

  • First female rap group to receive gold and platinum records, led by breakout single "Push It."
  • Danielle asks what percentage of people know "Push It" is "about dancing," leading Salt to quip:

    “Oh, I think only me. I think only me and me at the convention. … That’s what we thought.” (12:51, Salt)

  • The song became a hit organically, thanks to a DJ flipping to the B-side track.

    “No payola, you know, no setup, no planning. Everybody just responded to that song.” (13:42, Pepper)

---

3. Women, Family, and the Industry

• Family Response and Upbringing

  • Both describe families unsure but ultimately supportive of their unconventional career path.
    • “My family had a little hard time in the beginning, and I was like, no, this is it. This is good. I think this is gonna go…” (15:19, Salt)
  • Recalls musical upbringings—Motown, reggae, jazz, and Saturday cleaning rituals forming core memories.
    • “We had music playing on the hi Fi before it was wi fi every Saturday.” (16:54, Pepper)

• Navigating a Boys' Club

  • Recall camaraderie with other rap acts but often felt insulated, developing close bonds with Heavy D, Kid and Play, and others. (19:34, Pepper)

---

4. Pushing Boundaries: Sexuality, Advocacy, and Lyrics

• "Let's Talk About Sex" & Advocacy
  • The controversy and fearlessness of addressing sexual topics:

    “There’s a reason separation in the industry. ... The song is about being responsible, being aware, having the conversation. But most people don’t listen to lyrics, sadly.” (20:10, Pepper)

  • The song became an anthem for HIV/AIDS awareness, even being adapted as a PSA played on mainstream news:

    “We turned Let’s Talk About Sex to a PSA called Let’s Talk About AIDS. Peter Jennings played it on his special.” (20:34, Pepper)

---

5. Peak Fame: Grammys, Deals, and Generation-Spanning Hits

• On “Very Necessary” and Industry Empowerment

  • Describes growing empowerment over contracts and their careers by the time of their Grammy-winning album. Inspired by advice from MC Hammer’s brother:

    “Go back and tell him you need this and don’t take no for answer. ... So we went in like, this, this. ... And we was like, we did it all the above. We changed our deal at that moment.” (26:51–27:48, Salt)

  • Reflect on the joy and surprise of the song “Shoop” becoming an enduring hit—now immortalized in new generations via media like Deadpool.

    “These things happen to us without any big machine behind us… we just kept pushing it, pushing it. And so when it happens for us, it's like, thank you.” (29:05, Salt)

• Celebrity Fans

  • Ellen DeGeneres is mentioned as the “craziest” famous fan (“she crazy too!”), having guests perform “Shoop” often on her show. (31:07, Pepper)

---

6. Behind the Hits: Songwriting and Iconic Collaborations

• “What a Man” and Partnering with En Vogue
  • The story of nabbing En Vogue for their legendary collaboration, just by asking:

    “Let's try En Vogue. And they end up saying yes.” (32:10, Salt)

  • On ambiguous lyrics, Pepa clarifies the meaning:

    “At least he does it in secret, which is pathetic to say…” (33:27, Pepper)

  • Filming the video with Tupac—Pepa’s nerves and fun stories about a gift of a Glock-shaped cake from him!

    “When they said, who's your leading man gonna be? I was like, I get to roll around the bed with Tupac.” (35:13, Pepper)
    “It was a cake. It was made like a Glock. Painted black and everything. ... Is he congratulating us or threatening us?” (36:43–36:59, Salt & Pepper)

---

7. Iconic Style and Influence on Fashion

• Origins of Their Look
  • The famous eight-ball jackets were designed by Play; Dapper Dan constructed them.

    “He just remade those… for us for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. ... Dapper Dan … constructed the jackets.” (37:48, Pepper)

  • Stories about DIY fashion (ripped jeans, patch shirts) later becoming normalized and highly profitable in mainstream fashion.

    “We own patches on our shirts. Wearing our merch on stage… they live forever. This is kids making up stuff.” (38:36–38:50, Salt & Pepper)

  • Their innovative style later landed them a Victoria's Secret deal.

    “So we were just doing our own bra. And then Victoria’s Secrets approached us. ... We were wearing all their bras on stage.” (40:10, Salt)

---

8. Battles Over Ownership and Legacy

• Ownership Struggles
  • Hard-hitting insight into their ongoing legal battles for master recordings:

    “We are still fighting and we're gonna fight as long as we can. Yes. It's been long, it's been hard, it's been expensive. … The greed in this industry is so ridiculously shameful…” (42:13–42:29, Pepper)

  • Salt uses the opportunity to educate fellow artists about understanding their contracts and the “35 year rule.” (43:11, Salt)

---

9. Favorite and Most Iconic Performances

• Their Grammy performance and the importance of boycotting to get the rap category televised:

  “We actually performed. We won. And then we ran to the wrong podium like three blind mice. … We have boycotted the Grammys because … it was not televised. … Years later they started televising the category. So there was also that, you know, that really meant a lot to us.” (44:12–45:07, Pepper)

• Woodstock appearance described as "insane" and a career highlight. (45:25, Salt & Pepper)

---

10. The It’s Iconic Tour with TLC & En Vogue

• Talk about the nostalgic, “Avengers” feeling of co-headlining with other ‘90s R&B legends.

  “This is 90s hip hop and R&B Avengers!” (46:14, Danielle; 46:17, Pepper)

• Inside scoop on rehearsals and staging; jokes about never dating their dancers… or at least not those “on the payroll.” (47:48–49:05, Salt & Pepper)

---

Notable Quotes

• “That opposite attract thing is a real thing.” — Pepper (07:02)
• “We was bringing hip hop and comedy before its time.” — Salt (08:44)
• “I threw that car in park, like, so fast, and I screamed... We was like, we on the radio.” — Salt (10:35)
• “No payola, … everybody just responded to that song.” — Pepper (13:42)
• “We turned ‘Let’s Talk About Sex’ to a PSA called ‘Let’s Talk About AIDS.’” — Pepper (20:34)
• “Go back and tell him you need this and don’t take no for answer.” — MC Hammer’s brother’s advice to Salt-N-Pepa (26:51)
• “These things happen to us without any big machine behind us… we just kept pushing it, pushing it.” — Salt (29:05)
• “Ellen. Ellen. … She did like, sh. She always made someone have to rap it with her. Yes, that is her song.” — Pepper (31:07)
• “Let’s try En Vogue. And they end up saying yes.” — Salt (32:10)
• “At least he does it in secret, which is pathetic to say…” — Pepper (33:27)
• “When they said, who's your leading man gonna be? I was like, I get to roll around the bed with Tupac.” — Pepper (35:13)
• “We are still fighting and we're gonna fight as long as we can.” — Pepper (42:13)
• “This is the 90s hip hop and R&B Avengers.” — Danielle Fishel (46:14)
• "We just be sitting there like, wow. ... Shout out to the dancers. They be killing it." — Salt (47:38)

---

Key Timestamps

• Early Careers & Sears: 05:01–08:44
• Recording Breakout Song/The Showstopper: 09:16–11:39
• "Push It" & First Major Hit: 12:32–14:39
• Family Reaction & Musical Upbringing: 15:11–17:49
• Industry Mentorship & Peer Relationships: 18:39–19:34
• "Let's Talk About Sex" & Advocacy: 20:08–21:49
• Contract Battles & Empowerment: 26:19–28:08
• Sustained Popularity/"Shoop"/Legacy: 28:24–29:42
• Celebrity Fans (Ellen): 31:02–31:21
• "What A Man" with En Vogue: 31:35–32:26
• Lyrics/Infidelity Discussion: 33:14–34:57
• Video with Tupac: 35:13–36:59
• Fashion and Original Styles: 37:21–40:28
• Owning Masters & Legal Battles: 42:13–43:56
• Favorite Performances (Grammys, Woodstock): 44:12–45:39
• It’s Iconic Tour Reunion: 46:09–49:05

---

Memorable Moments

• Pepa recalling the first radio play and both jumping out of the car in glee. (10:35)
• The honest dissection of "What a Man" lyrics: "He keep his ho and under wraps." (33:19, Pepper)
• Pepa’s nerves in the “What a Man” video shoot with Tupac, and the mysterious Glock-shaped cake gift. (35:13–36:59)
• The real talk about losing track of personal mastery in the business and fighting for their rights. (42:13–43:56)
• The banter over their fashion influence and never getting credit for ripped jeans. (38:51–39:14)
• “This is 90s hip hop and R&B Avengers!” — proposal for the tour’s branding. (46:14–46:17)

---

Final Notes

This episode is a love letter to Salt-N-Pepa’s impact, blending nostalgia, laughter, seriousness, and mentorship for aspiring artists. For fans new and old, it is a masterclass in authenticity, resilience, and the joy of friendship in a storied career—peppered (no pun intended) with hilarious and heartfelt moments. The announced "It's Iconic Tour" with TLC and En Vogue is described as a not-to-be-missed ‘90s supergroup event.

Transcript

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

the breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pops are going solo. Now fans must pick a side and help crown the flavorfew champion with a chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies and then vote by shouting out your favorite on Social and don't forget to follow the flavor feud drama all summer long on Instagram.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Opsicle I love my phone but not my carrier.

[Sam J]

What do I do?

[T-Mobile Representative]

Well, there are 250 reasons to join T Mobile. Like what? You can keep your phone and your number and T Mobile helps pay it off up to $800 per line.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yep. Plus your plan price stays the same for 5 years on experience plans.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Nice.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Find your reason@t mobile.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Via virtual prepaid guard card typically takes 15 days after rebate submission price guarantee on Talk text and 5G data exclusions like taxes and fees apply.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hey, it's Danielle Fishel and I love me some treats for real. It's my love language. All I'm looking for is something simple that tastes amazing. And that's why I love Johnny Pops. Simple ingredients, no artificial dyes. Absolutely delicious. Whether it's a quick snack for the kids or a sweet treat for yourself, which we all absolutely deserve, Johnny Pops are perfect and there's a kind deed on every stick to encourage everyone to share a little kindness. So next time you're in the freezer aisle, grab a box of Johnny Pops and feel great about what you're sharing. Johnny Pops A better pop for a better world.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mary.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was like the Jaws shark.

[Danielle Fishel]

Didn't always work, came with its own problems.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That's what made it great.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

The cast of Obsession on set, there

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

was so much magic happening with each scene.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

We were putting together deep dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow aidersofthelostpodcast and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Give me money for cigarettes I'll never leave your filthy bed. I stay the night and one night we can two or three years. The kids are not all right, but that's okay cuz no one here is. Take me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi everybody and welcome back to Teen Beat, a podcast in the diversified portfolio we call the Danielle Fishel shows. Teen Beat is where I sit with interesting people who have done interesting things to investigate their past. Like I'm some sort of talkie private eye. Because I know that by remembering yesterday, we get ready for today. Put that on a greeting card, baby. Sure, I spent my entire adolescence on TV for the world to see. But not everyone had a hair and makeup team before a learner's permit. I see it this way. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. The term legends is thrown around quite a bit in 2026. In my opinion, a bit too much when it comes to handing out this title of culture immortality. I think people should be a little pickier. You need decades of relevancy, a past filled with revolutionary achievements, a history of opening doors for others who may not have had the chance without you, and and a bunch of bops that will find their way onto workout playlists for the next 100 years. So make no mistake about it, my guests this week are legends. They taught us to push it, to express ourselves and to talk about sex. They were the first ever female rap act to go gold and platinum. And alongside Queen Latifah were the first to win a barrier breaking Grammy on a night that changed the event forever. The they have sold more than 15 million records worldwide and just last year were inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. And now they are going out on the road to co headline the it's iconic tour alongside TLC with special guests en vogue. Be still my 90s R&B heart. It's my absolute honor to welcome to the podcast the first ladies of rap, Salt N Pepa. Ladies, this is such an honor to be here with you. Thank you so much for sitting down with me.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm honestly starstruck and I don't get starstruck very often, but I feel it now. I love that your legendary hip hop career, this game changing hall of fame rap group all started at a Sears. Yes, you both worked there as customer service reps. So first I must know what are the worst phone calls you got while there the hangups.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Hello, it'll be the hang is Cheryl James calling from Sears. Click.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Because. Because you have to reach a quota so it's very important to keep them on.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Very depressing. Being a is so depressing. It was so depressing they had, like, charts, like, on display for everyone to see, and then graphs. Right. So if you made a lot of sales, your graph was up to here. And me and Pep's grade grass is always.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We're always being called in at all.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Always.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We would call each other and then the supervisor walk by and then we're like, yes, that would be $28 a month. Just faking, child.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Just faking it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Talking about your weekend.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Exactly. Oh, my gosh.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so who broke the ice? Who started talking to the other one first?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Me.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You did.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I started talking to her because I used to see her in the lunchroom and I was, you know, a bit of a loud mout. And I used to be loud, loud, loud. And I used to always see her, you know, crossing the lunchroom corner and just.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was quiet, quiet, quiet.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Very quiet. She ain't involved with nothing. Who is she? It's her story.

[Danielle Fishel]

Why is she so.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

My friends always adopt me.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And I came over wanting to know, like, this is a good old tea. Like, you know, you see this in a movie. We did a movie, but I came over like, basic, what's your deal?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, tell me the story. She was all punk rock. I was like, so punk rock. She had blunt blonde hair and leopard

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

safety pins in my ears.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We were just the total opposite.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Total.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So that opposite attract thing is a real thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

So when she came over and said, like, what's the deal? What's your story? Did you.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes. You were like, I was fascinated.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Because people don't usually like, cross my. My quiet barrier. Right. And she's just like, who are you? Are you over here by yourself not talking to anybody?

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, you guys were coincidentally also both nursing students at the same school, too. But you met at Sears, not at school.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, we weren't nursing students at school.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

College.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

But we did meet at college and

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

just taking the courses together.

[Danielle Fishel]

The courses together, together.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Liberal arts was, you know, when you don't know what you want to do. That was me. And we also didn't go to class. Well, I didn't go to class.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I'm Jamaican. I had to go to class. We used to play spades in the

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

lunchroom at Queensborough College. Yeah. So we just started. Like, the thing about our friendship is our sense of humor. Like, you know when you have a friend that you just have this warped sense of humor with.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And you just lose your mind laughing and nobody else in the room gets.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

You had to be there.

[Sam J]

Right?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Exactly.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That would be us.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is nice to feel seen on a Whole other level. Like, no one else would be laughing at this, but we get it.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this sears also had Play from Kid and Play and Martin Lawrence. This is the greatest sears I've ever heard of.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, it was Kid and Play at series and Martin Lawrence. Martin Lawrence, all of us, and our producer, Herbie.

[Sam J]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And everyone had a dream, and we all talked about what we were gonna do, and we all did it, and

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

you all did it.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We always said, whoever makes it first will, you know, help out the other one. So we got put on first. And our first shows, we had Martin Lawrence open up, opening for us to do his comedy. So we was bringing hip hop and comedy before it's time.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys were trailblazers in every capacity.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah. Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, we know that it was Herbie Love Bugs, Salt's boyfriend, who had a school project that first got you to record the Showstopper, your first ever song.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did either of you have to be convinced? Was it like, all right, if we have to help you out for your first song?

[Sam J]

No.

[Fred Armisen]

Yeah. No.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was failing miserably in school. I was like, this is it for me.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

This is my chance.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

This is what I want to do.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Maybe a little different. I did not think I was going to do that at all. Like, at all, at all, at all. You could have told me I was going to rap. Like, you know, it's a. We knew it, we played with it, but I. Not to make a record with it, like, so I wasn't thinking that. And so I had a more difficult time in the beginning with it, you know, And I love the, the, the. The. The hard work, like, the. The what? I went through the hours in the studio, the grind like this is. And I was still going to college shows, like, you gotta quit, because, you know, girl, we made it. What you doing in there? What you doing? We gotta get on the road.

[Danielle Fishel]

You mentioned already she's Jamaican.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

She had family, you know.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That's right.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Two, three jobs.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

So this school project starts getting radio play from one of the greatest to ever do it, DJ Marley Marle. Do you remember the first time you heard it on the air?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Best moment ever.

[Danielle Fishel]

Tell me everything about it.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I was driving in my Datsun 210. It has a hole in the right side, passenger side. So Cheryl has this when it's raining in the puddle. Feet up, feet up. Get your purse off the floor. Get your purse off the floor. Rainy today, but driving on, you know, you're in Queens and then we've been waiting, like, you know, Rap music wasn't even played by an hour on Saturdays. And, you know, everyone's waiting. And then at one point, we just kind of gave up. You know, like, are they gonna play? And we was just casually driving that day, and then it came on the radio, and I was driving. I threw that car in park, like, so fast, and I screamed. And we was. We was like, we on the radio. We're on the radio jumping out the car.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

She jumped out.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I was like, get back. We was in front of a liquor store. They were like, I'm like, they don't care. I wanted to hear the song. Like, could you get in the car

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

so we could actually listen to the song?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We're on the radio.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Let's enjoy it. But that's. That's, like, the highlight, I feel like, of any artist's career for the most part at that time. Right. Because it's. It's something about the first time you. You know, your voice is going out through the airwaves after you put in all that hard work and you hustled, and now somebody's actually playing your record on the radio. Unmatched Rock and roll hall of Fame, Grammys, star on the Walk of Fame. I could go on and on and on.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

But that moment, we only got two shows in the show.

[Danielle Fishel]

Four, but two shows.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Okay, I like that. Keep it going. That's a good one.

[Danielle Fishel]

From there, buzz starts circulating. You drop out of nursing school and finally make the decision. You get a record deal, which turns out you end up having your debut

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

album, Hot, Cool, and Ashy, Love the Tea,

[Danielle Fishel]

making you the first female rap group to receive both gold and platinum certification, led by the single Push It. What percentage of people do you think know that that song is about dancing?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh, I think only me. I think only me and me at the convention. At least that's what we thought. Yeah, we did. For real.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

People do not believe that. They, like, Come On, Girls, y' all knew what that song is about. It was up for interpretation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Cause some people thought it was saying

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

P U. S. That's right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Real good.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And we definitely was not saying that.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

The producer we had, trust me, if he. His intention was for that, it would have been that. Yeah, right, right. He would have. It would have been very clear. It was so organic how everything from the video to the. The song, how it picked up the momentum because that wasn't even the single that was being promoted. It was a B side to a song tramp that we were actually. Which is the A side. So you Know, DJ flipped it. So everything. It's just.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah. A DJ in San Francisco. I hate that. I don't remember his name. He passed away. We gotta Google his name. But he just started playing the record, and it just took off like. No payola, you know, no setup, no planning. Everybody just responded to that song. And we were on tour, actually, and Herbie called us, and he was like, do push it in your next set. We was like, push it?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Like, what?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And we performed it, and the crowd. That's the video.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That is the video performance. Was the video not funny?

[Danielle Fishel]

It's like radio back then was really the. The algorithm of its time.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

It's like Sway was just saying. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

You can't predict.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

You can get talented people all in a room listening to the same album. And the one that's going to hit with the audience, sometimes you just can't put your finger on.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And as an artist, artists usually know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Like, we'll have a favorite song.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Even though Shoop is our favorite song and it was a hit. But they'll. An artist will pick something obscure, and then the audience is like, it's so close to you. So close to you. Exactly. My son loves you, by the way.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I'm just staring at you like, I just wanted to say that we look weird too.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Both of us.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah. Like the biggest crush on the COVID I was just telling Queen and Mona, like, I can't wait to tell him.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I needed to get that out. You got your fan moment out? We got our fan moment out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Take a picture together.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes, we have.

[Danielle Fishel]

So what do your families think about this now becoming your job? Did they think you were just gonna end up back at nursing school, or did they believe in it?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, my family had a little hard time in the beginning, and I was like, no, this is it. This is good. I think this is gonna go. This is gonna go, you know? And it was like, okay, I'll support you. And I'm grown still, but we always have to still get permissions with each other in this, like, family.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That's a Jamaican thing again.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, I'm old.

[Danielle Fishel]

I just got. I hadn't got my first tattoo. I had to clear it with my mom.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Wow. At what age?

[Danielle Fishel]

45.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

No.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I just.

[Danielle Fishel]

I just was like, I. You can be okay. She was like, I don't really like tattoos, but I'm okay with it.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That's me and my daughter. But I was. I'm. I'm the rebel. I'm the. Nobody gonna tell me what to do.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

You listen to Your face.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

She used to listen to her older sisters.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I'd be like, you listen to your sisters.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Those are your sisters. They're not your mother.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly, exactly.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So my parents were like, let her do her thing. Cause you know she gonna do it anyway. We don't know what she doing, and

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

we don't understand it.

[Danielle Fishel]

But okay, girl, you love her, so go ahead. Right, okay. Were you guys raised in musical homes? What did you listen to growing up?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

A lot of Motown, Jim Green.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Lot of reggae music, but a lot of that old soul. Soul music.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

All the soul music. Yeah, Good old. And my dad used to be a doo whopper. He was like one of those. Like, he had a group that used to be on the corner. So he always played a lot of jazz and, you know, Saturday morning cleaning. Did you do that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Turn on the music. Everybody together. We're in this house in order.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So we had music playing on the hi Fi before it was wi fi every Saturday. And, you know, you're not. You're absorbing that energy, and you don't know that it's turntable.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

You're like,

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

the vinyl is coming, coming back, honey. Vinyl is making a comeback.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

People like, yeah, funny that, like, we

[Danielle Fishel]

attack that music is. It brings so much joy into our lives, specifically from those moments where you're actually doing it to distract from a chore you don't want to do. But those always end up being our favorite memories as time as a family. It's like you don't. Similar to the way you don't get to pick the algorithm what's going to work. You don't get to pick the core memories. They're all. They're not the things you think. They're not the big over the top extravaganzas. There's the moments of listening to music. Clean around. Cleaning your house on a Saturday.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Those are bonding. I wish I would have raised my kids to clean on Saturdays. Good Lord.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. We do Sunday cleaning.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You do. That's such a great mom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Saturdays are. We're. You know, we're in at sports, so we got Saturday games and Saturday this. And on Sunday, it's like, we're gonna hang out at the house. We're gonna get this place all spiffy for our week.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Such a good thing to teach your kids. We had. We traveled a lot, so we had nannies and housekeepers, and they never learned anything about cle.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

No organization skill at the time. You told us, feel like she throws her jacket on the floor. She's not faking.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And then you can't blame them.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I got called in for things like that. It's a real thing because it's somebody

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

picking up after that.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Right. And that's when you pay attention. I go, wow. I can see where that's a problem for the kid.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah. Because you're on the road. So anyway, that's a whole nother

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

four kids. No, no, no.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're whole class of mid-80s rappers is full of legends. LL Cool J, KS1, Fresh Prince, Cool Modi. Obviously a boys club, but were you making friends and hanging out with other rappers at the time?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was, yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Cuz when I got a, you know, I was ended up going with Marky D from the Fat Boys.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

So he was my industry and I was new in the. In the in in the industry then. And so I'm looking up to him. He's already done a movie then and.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Right.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And he's you with Run DMC and Houdini. We were on their tour. So I'm hanging with Houdini. He taking. So I'm like, oh shoot, that's Houdini. So I got to hang for me then that was like, wow. Those times, the Run dmc, LL and Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We also had like a family within our own camp.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Like we came up with Heavy D and the boys and Kid and play. Right. And those were like our boys, our family. We were a little bit insulated. Here to talk about sharing tour buses.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's your little bubble.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, that's fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to jump into your third album, Black's Magic, which includes let's Talk About Sex. Nowadays it would be hard pressed to find a female rapper who doesn't talk about sex. But back then this was unheard of. Did anyone push back at the fearlessness of it?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh yeah. That's what it was supposed to do.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes, I know they ain't gonna play this on the radio. That's a little conversation we had in the begin of the song, knowing that it would be some pushback. But the song is about being responsible, being aware, having the conversation. But most people don't listen to lyrics, sadly. Right. And so we've had parents come up to us and say, oh, we thought you were great role models. And we're like, did you listen?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Did you listen?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You know. So it actually took on a life of its own. Also eventually became like the. The anthem for sexual awareness classes in college. We turned let's Talk About Sex to a PSA called Let's Talk about aids. Peter Jennings played it on his special. And so salt and pepper. Kind of like at a time when it wasn't popular to be an advocate for HIV and AIDS awareness, we were outside talking about it because we were actually like, like, man, this is serious.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And there's a reason separation in the industry.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And I wanted to know about this. The do's and the don'ts. Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I used to talk to my little sister. I'll be like, girl, don't be out here messing around. You gotta make sure he wrapped that thing up. So, yeah, we kind of led the charge in that. And then a lot of organizations like Lifebeat, what is the Gay Men's Health Crisis? Like, we just became their baby, you know, and they just adopted us to do all the stuff.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, yeah, because there was so much fear mongering at the time and not a lot of direct education.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so to be able to put direct education in a song.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

That people can just mouth along to and know the words. It's like you're so ahead of your time in so many different ways.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

The public breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. After decades together, Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pops are going their separate ways. And the drama is heating up. It started with Cherry Popsicle's shocking decision to strike out on her own. But after years of sharing freezer space, Orange and Gray Popsicle weren't about to let Cherry Popsicle steal the spotlight. Now the flavor feud is officially on. Cherry Popsicle wants the spotlight all to herself. But Orange and Grape Popsicle aren't giving it up without a fight. All summer long, fans will decide which flavor deserves the crown and the chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick a side. Make your voice heard and let the feud begin. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then shout out your favorite on social. And don't forget to follow the flavorfew drama all summer long on Instagram. Opsicle.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi, it's Danielle Fishel, podcaster, actor and treat connoisseur. As someone who takes snacks seriously, a good frozen treat has to be delicious, fun and something I feel great about sharing with my 4 and 6 year old. That's why I love Johnny Pops. Simple ingredients, no artificial dyes and flavors for the whole family. From organic rainbow to chocolate dipped strawberry to organic unicorn twist. And every stick has a kind deed on it, encouraging all of us to spread the love. So next time you're in the freezer aisle. Grab a box of Johnny Pops. Thank me later, Johnny Pops. A better pop for a better world.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'?

[T-Mobile Representative]

All?

[Sam J]

It's your girl, Sam J.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together. And I heart women's sports because, let's

[Sam J]

be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.

[Sam J]

My first thought is just like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

What are we eating? The highlight, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire

[Sam J]

timeline, and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.

[Sam J]

Shout outs to you, Naomi.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You get the palm.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Naomi, you get the palm for that.

[Sam J]

Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to Everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Hey, Portlandia fans.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you

[Fred Armisen]

know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken.

[T-Mobile Representative]

We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.

[T-Mobile Representative]

How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised not just words, but a song.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Well, I thought he was gonna write. I thought you were all gonna write a song.

[T-Mobile Representative]

I remember you thinking that.

[Fred Armisen]

Listen to Podlandia Ayo. Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, then the next album, 1993's very necessary. Just has hit after hit after hit after hit. It has sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. You won a Grammy sharing the honor of first female rap act to win the award with Queen Latifah. Did it feel special when you were recording it?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I have to say it felt amazing because of the timing of that album. We were just waking up, like, in terms of, like, trying to figure out our rights and things like that. We should be getting more. We're doing so much. We're selling with this and that. And just out of. You know, it's like I said, Tommy was MC Hammer's brother. Because at the time, they said, this is how much you get. Only Michael Jackson could get this kind of points. Like, we're like, oh, okay. And you just push Michael Jackson so we don't talk about it. Right? That's it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And I never forget MC Hammer brother, Lewis Burrell. We're discussing. And I was telling him the points we get and what we're selling. He was like, you, this, this, this, this. Go back and tell him you. You need this. And I said, no, they're gonna say this. He said, you tell them you need this and don't take no for answer. And I was like, okay, and talk to Saul. And we went in like, this, this. You know, this is what we're gonna.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You scared little puppy.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes. It's not fair.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And we're standing our ground, right?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And then I had. The song, came up with shooting, right? I had just me. So I'm like, I'm the dog.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Dog, dog.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We cannot put Pepper song first on an album. Like, you know, the labels was calling her. We're like, what's this? You know, like, no, we can't do that. But, you know, it ended up being undeniable. But people were like, yo, this is a song. This is a single. Let's go. There's, you know, Salt Roll. I wrote, and we was like, let's go. I produced it. And we was like, we did it all the above. We changed our deal at that moment.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Got a better deal.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That song for us, our first single, Not Herbie, Salt and Pepper. And we broke the album to. It takes, you know, makes the temperature that. You know, it sets the temperature for the Focus track. Yeah, the Focus track. Right. And it was just so, like, wow, that timing. So that's all right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah. It's such a fun song to perform, too. And that album is iconic, for sure.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Also, I think all white people are legally obligated to know every word to it.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And y' all do we do?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

We will sing along to it any chance we get. It's another. It's a reimagining of the hip hop trope since it celebrates women flipping some of those sexist traditions and subverting the male gaze. Are you shocked at all by the longevity of it? A whole new generation has fallen in love with it now, thanks to Deadpool. I mean, you've got kids that are now hearing it and knowing all the words. Like, is that surprising to you at all? Or does it just feel like it all makes sense because of that timing since the way it felt from the beginning?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I just think these things happen to us without any big machine behind us. I mean, because we go through it, like we get, you know, pushback a lot.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And we just kept. Some people will show up like, okay, we doing it. We keep going. We're pushing it, pushing it. And so when it happens for us, it's like, thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right, right.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Such a nice feeling.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

It makes sense to me.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

From the beginning, it kind of just took off. It's like, I don't know, it was just beyond music. It was something I feel like the friendship, you know, the connection. Like we have this like crazy connection. The chemistry, you know, like everything just lined up pretty much. And it never stopped. Like, never stopped. You know what I mean?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Never.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Even now, like to your point, all these years, like they call us for like the biggest things without any. Any, like you said, big machine. It's just so organic, you know, So I kind of expected it. What I am surprised though, about is that the timing in my mind at a certain age, you know, like it's. You did your thing. Okay, now sit down. You know, the calls we get is constantly crazy, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

No rest for you.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You keep waiting for that day.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

She said, you keep waiting for that day.

[Danielle Fishel]

You keep thinking, well, maybe next year I'll get to take a nap.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

No, no.

[Sam J]

Oh no.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Not the rock and roll hall effect.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

She was going to be in a house on a mountain, in a cottage somewhere. Now they're really going to start calling us forever. We're going to send the ship out, go get her off that island, bring her back.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like she thinks she is taking a rest.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I don't think so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who is the craziest person you've ever met? Who knows every word to shoop.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Craziest person we've ever met.

[Danielle Fishel]

Another. Another famous person that Ellen.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, Ellen. Ellen.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Hey. And she crazy too.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

She love.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We used to get a licensing check from the Ellen Degeneres show like clock.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

All her guests have to sing it. That's amazing. She did like, sh. She always made someone have to rap it with her. Yes, that is her song. Yes, that was her song.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, that song would have been enough. But then the second single is what a Man, another immortal track. How did you connect with En Vogue for that one? Okay, here it goes.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Here it goes. So of course, you know Herbie. You know, we all came up with this song. Herbie producer. But this was the part of. I never forget. We were in the studio. I think we was an Al Machera.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

This is.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes, we were like, in the studio. Something. Her real Herbie studio. But anyway, the fact that we was trying to see who could sing this one hook. Who could sing this hook. And then I just sat there and thought of In Vogue, like.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So I said, let's get.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Let's try In Vogue. And we all was like, we can't get no in Vogue. We can't get no in Vogue. I was like, let's just try. Let's see if IM Vogue would sing it. And they end up saying yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

See? Shoot for the stars.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Shoot. And we was like, they said yes. And it was.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Funny thing is perfect. Just as famous as them. That's what artists are like, that they're

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

like, you think they'll do it, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

I get that. Also, we all have a little bit of imposter syndrome. Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes. They were honored. They were honored. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is so good.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And the video was amazing. When we had to put that video together.

[Danielle Fishel]

Uhhuh.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That was fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Chef's kiss.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Girl power to the fullest.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I have two specific questions about this song. First, I found two different writers with two varying opinions, and I want you to give the final word on it. The lyric is, although most men are hoes, he flows on the down low, cuz. I never heard about him with another girl. Does that mean he is. Is faithful or does it mean that he's just really good at keeping it quiet? And you appreciate that.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It's so funny. You picked that out. I picked that lyric out. And I was like, someone's going to keep.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

He keep his ho and under wraps.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Got it.

[Danielle Fishel]

All right, there it is.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Final word.

[Danielle Fishel]

I. I appreciate that.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

At least.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

At least he does it in secret, which is pathetic to say, but you

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

don't want to know that. The disrespect.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You've always said that. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

If you going to go to McDonald's, better not be in my McDonald's now time. You better. Two hours is over.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's ex. Couldn't agree with you more. Also, anytime somebody. There's a cheating scandal in the news and we think, okay, you know what? Don't judge people who decide to stay. So much of it is. How blatant was it?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That's right. How comfortable were you Disrespectful. Was she in my bed?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. How comfortable were you disrespecting me for all to see?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

She better not be in my house. I know one thing.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I've had my camera ready. Yeah, baby. How do they. We got cameras. Don't you know? Why would they forget that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Good luck trying to get. I mean, now people just take people to concerts

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

and they're on the Tron.

[Sam J]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Crazy.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That's craziness.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

It's a rap for cheaters. Either tell the truth or don't cheat. You know what I mean? Cuz, I mean, you're going to get

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

cool court someone that condones it with you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Someone who says, you know what?

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't want you rubbing it in my face, but as long as give me the opportunity. It goes both ways.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yes.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

If you want.

[Danielle Fishel]

If.

[Sam J]

Exactly.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

If you'd want that, you might not even want to do that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure. I mean, I definitely wouldn't want to, but I would also not want him to know that I wouldn't want to.

[Sam J]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Cuz I want. I want.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, yeah. We have to play the game.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

So many games.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Right?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It's so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, just so many games. Okay, my second question. The music video featured Tupac. And I just want to hear what that day was like. Like, and what you remember from. Were you friends with him? It's not like he was a big cameo guy.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, actually Pep and Tretch were together. Tretch of Naughty by Nature and Tretch was friends with Tupac. So he was in close proximity with us. Kind of had some conversations with him. I knew not to mess with Tupac, you know what I mean? And he was very respectful. But when they said, said, who's your leading man gonna be? I was like, I get to roll around the bed with Tupac.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh, my God. Girls do it just like men when they pick those scenes. We'd be sitting there like, who could we get? Oh, yeah, I was. Had a boy. I was with somebody. So I ain't get to go through the Rolodex for you, right? Yep.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So I did that scene with him, and my toes were literally curling. It was so.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was beautiful.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was like. Cause everybody was enamored with him. That was a given.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Tell about our gift from him with the gun.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

But the father of my child was actually in the room and I had to kick him out. I was like, I can't do this with you standing here. I have to make a good video.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, exactly. You know, I have to be able to act like I'm enjoying this. They would be a toilet. I have to be able to act like I'm enjoying this.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So that was. That was.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, that was a good one.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

A good moment.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you want to tell us about the gift or no?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh, no. I was just saying how he gave us a gift one time.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah. But we won the Grammy.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was. It was made like a machine gun.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

It was a cake.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was a cake.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

It was made like a Glock.

[Sam J]

A Glock.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Glock.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

A cake in the shape of a block.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Painted black and everything.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

So we was going, hm. We didn't piss him off.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Right.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We were like.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was like, is he congratulating us for threatening us?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was so cute. It was so funny. We was dead serious. That question, though, seriously.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Staring at this gun kid like, what the heck?

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you or I'm sorry.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

He owned us. That was funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

What was the connection for him?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We still don't know.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We don't know.

[Fred Armisen]

Okay.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Thug Life.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes, Thug Life. Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

I would be remiss if I did not talk a little salt and pepper fashion, because the iconic eight ball leather jacket, people may not know who designed those, but they were designed by play of kid. And play, who was your stylist before his career took off in another sense?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Well, wasn't our stylist. He was very stylish, but he wasn't our stylist.

[Danielle Fishel]

So he gave suggestions and had ideas.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes. And he designed those jackets. He was an artist. He still is an artist. He just remade those them for us for Rock and Roll hall of Fame. They're like reimagined. And Dapper Dan, who was huge at that time, still is, constructed the jackets. We got our boots from Fava. Y' all remember Fava? Payless. Like those stores.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love Payless. That's where Bogo. That's where even the term Bogo started.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Cheap boots. And then we had got the kente hats from this lady named Mary Bird. She had a little hat shop. Shop next to the Apollo in Harlem. In Harlem. And we just, like back in the day, we didn't have stylists in here and makeup and all that. We was just making it up as we went along. And that became like the most iconic look.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Shopping for the dancers. All the things so. And it was more fun back then. It was like, so more organic.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Getting your looks and then those looks go on.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

They live forever.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

This is kids making up stuff.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Ripped up to you. The ripped up jeans.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

She's always claiming the ripped up jeans. They owe us money.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Y' all owe us money. Take your face. That's right. Who is doing that? You never seen a ripped jean before.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We own patches on our shirts. Wearing our merch on stage, doing things.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Look at those jeans. You pay. We end up paying 3, 500. A thousand dollars after that.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And we did them ourselves.

[Danielle Fishel]

My grandfather still now. I will give him credit for starting the joke. All grandparents. Are you having a tough time? Do you need me to buy you a pair of cloth?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, parents hated that jean thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Cover your. I love that you're wearing your merch on stage. It takes the, like wearing the. The concert tea. To the concert. Just one step further.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes. Yes. Thank you. He was like, buy our shirt.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Look how good it looks.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, you really are the best models for it. Okay, I want to show you a couple other photos, too. Let's go to the next. Next photo.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, a look at this. Ernie Panoli is the photographer.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

Beautiful.

[Danielle Fishel]

These little bras, bright colors.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I was so extra Victoria Secret deal. Like, I look like my son in that picture.

[Danielle Fishel]

Is this the thing? This got you guys a Victoria's Secret deal? Are you sitting?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We were wearing our own bras. Yeah. So we were just doing our own bra. And then Victoria's Secrets approached us. And then. And we started wearing. We were wearing all their bras on stage.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

The original.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, we sure were wearing those bras.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

They was wearing Victoria. We did a little campaign with them a little.

[Sam J]

Literally.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys were the original angels. Thank you. Let's go to the next picture. These are just a few of my favorite, absolute favorite looks.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Like.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes, it's fire.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That was Derek Khan. That's when we first started getting a stylist.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That probably was here.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And there was Derek Khan.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, maybe it had to be, like, clueless, you know?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I know.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Look at that.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's just beautiful.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Love that look.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gotta bring that back. All right, let's go to the next one. Last one.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh, yes. I love that one, too. I remember.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That was Derek Khan.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah, that was Derek Khan.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You can tell when we started getting styled.

[Danielle Fishel]

Beautiful little metallic mini dresses. I love that little sheer. Those are my favorite types of umbrellas, too. The sheer where you can see the Raindrops.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That is so women.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I like that. I think these cute.

[Danielle Fishel]

I wonder though, was that sweaty? What happened when you got hot in a little pleather sheer dress?

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I barely had anything on so I

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

was, I was already cool enough.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

A.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this past year you were inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Truly incredible and well deserved recognition for after your 40 year career in music. I know you took time on stage to also shed some light on the frustration and roadblocks you have run into while trying to retain your master recordings. I feel like so many fans have followed this story hoping for the right thing to happen and for you to get back your music. Has there been any progress with it?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So, so it's like so depressing to even talk about. Let's just say this. We're still fighting.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Still fighting.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I'm just gonna wrap that right on up into we are still fighting and we're gonna fight as long as we can. Yes. It's been long, it's been hard, it's been expensive.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

But the greed in this industry is so ridiculously shameful after you've exploited someone's music for 40 years to fight them for what's rightfully theirs to continue to get. I can't even say the lion's share more than the lion's share to the point that the music has been taken down on all platforms. I'm like they want to. It's like beyond just greed at this point. Now it's spite. So now the fans can't even access our music and for you to make a statement of whatever kind is ridiculous. So.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And I think still like we're hoping for, you know, the best, of course. But at least it raised awareness.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

For any other artist to pay attention to their deal and, and, and, and understanding the 35 year rule and see if it applies to you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And start getting that, you know, because you never know.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You know, you start up your career, you don't know that you, you think you're going to be successful but you don't know that your music is going to be worth million, millions, millions over the years. We are some of the most licensed music in not just hip hop in music period. Like you know, you could barely watch TV and I hear what a man, you know, or, or push it or shoot. Like let's talk about sex like we spoke of. So that lasts over a period of time and it's worth fighting for in the beginning.

[Danielle Fishel]

In the beginning. Right.

[Sam J]

Set.

[Danielle Fishel]

Get off on the right foot.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I am Rooting for you guys and thank you for spreading that awareness. When you look back on your careers, is there one performance that sticks out as the most quintessential Salt and Peppa?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

When we performed for the Grammys.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I think. I would think. Yes. That's the. Because we.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yeah, we went, we had rehearsals.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

You know, they show would go to hair like they distinctly said had. We had a good rehearsal. Yeah, we got it.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And then.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Cuz that's when we won.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We actually performed.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We won. And then we ran to the wrong podium like three blind mice. And they were like.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

We ran back and they say we

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

can't believe it because we have boy boycotted the Grammys because there was a time when it was being nominated but not televised. So Will Smith actually pulled Public Enemy, Salt and Pepper Kid and play quite a few people. And we, we refused to go and we had a whole press conference and then years later they started televising the category. So there was also that, you know, that really meant a lot to us.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Because we took the chance. You know, they were like, well it's true. You ain't gonna never get another Grammy. Right. But they still, you know, that was important. And they thought about it. So it was a good move because it was televised. I saw said so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And Woodstock was in another incredible. Just to be at.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Another Woodstock was insane.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Cuz that was the main member.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Everything.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

It was Woodstock. That was the one. That was the one.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And they. And our set was long. It was like we were on the main stage.

[Sam J]

That's.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

That's important.

[Danielle Fishel]

Everyone wants that main stage.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And it was a long show. It wasn't like just two or three songs. So it was a special performance.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, speaking of performing, you are going out on the road for the it's iconic tour alongside TLC and en Vogue starting August 15th. What a lineup. What can fans expect when these three legendary groups team up? I see this as like, this is my 90s hip hop and R B Avengers.

[Sam J]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Wow.

[Popsicle Brand Announcer]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

I love that.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

That's it. How you say it again? Because we're gonna use that.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is the 90s hip hop and R B Avengers.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Yes. That's how we feel. Like when it came together we were like, why didn't we think of this years ago? Everything in its timing, of course it's the perfect time. But the lineup is like

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

we didn't think of it. Yeah. And we haven't done any shows with tlc. Yeah. At all. Like so that's why, like wow. You know.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And where it's going to be nostalgic, like I always say. You know, Know, back in the day, it felt like we were performing for you guys, but now we've all grown up together, so it's more of like a us thing. Like, we're all just gonna go back to the time when we first heard Waterfalls.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Shoot.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

When we first heard. Hold on. You know what I mean? And so we're also doing an integrated show, which is gonna be. Yeah, crazy fun. So, yeah, we're looking forward to it. And it's been selling out. There was some controversy attached to it for a minute.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yeah.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

People are just like, we showing up.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Yes.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

You know, we're showing up. So we're appreciative.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

And we've been rehearsing.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, well, we going to rehearsal after this.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

After this.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

So I'm like, oh, we love it because we have six boy dancers.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Rehearsal is our favorite thing to do.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

We just be sitting there like, wow. I know.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Shout out to the dancers. They be killing it. They be killing it.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

They be killing it all over again. Auditioning dancers back in the day was

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

our other favorite thing. Other favorite Auditions. Auditions, yes. I've audition Light up boys.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

And we've never messed with dancers, but we like to look at them.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

You know, Speak for yourself. Speak for yourself. I know you happen. Stop lying. Wait, something. I don't know. Oh, no, cuz you don't think so? Wait, who?

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Oh, girl. Oh, did you not know? Oh, no, I knew.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

I forgot. Yeah, a little something something.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

But he's not a dancer.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

He was. Well, he was a backgrounder.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

No, see, listen, let's context, okay? I'm talking about dancers we hired that was on our payroll to dance for us.

[Danielle Fishel]

In that specific. Yes, okay. But in the broader context, we don't

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

mess with the employees. You got to look at it like this. Keep feeling yourself hotline.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

But we never had.

[Danielle Fishel]

There's a first time for everything is what we're saying.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Oh, it's too late for that now. Yeah, yeah, I'm not messing. It's eight years that ship shell.

[Danielle Fishel]

I cannot thank you both enough for coming onto Teen Beat. This is really a career highlight. You have brought brought me so much joy over the years. So to have you here in front of my face and be able to have a conversation with you has really meant a lot.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

So thank you.

[Sam J]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

You can catch Salt and Pepa on the road in the iconic tour with TLC and En Vogue starting August 15th in Franklin, Tennessee. You can see all of the dates and get your tickets [e-mail] period.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

Clap Betsy

[Danielle Fishel]

Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sudbaksh. The theme song is by Mark Hoppus. Yes, that Mark Hoppus. Follow us on Instagram teenbeatpod.

[Pepper (Sandra Denton)]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Salt (Cheryl James)]

Guaranteed Human.