Jon Heder

Summary

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The Danielle Fishel Shows – "Jon Heder"

Date: August 12, 2026
Podcast: The Danielle Fishel Shows (iHeartPodcasts)
Guest: Jon Heder

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Danielle Fishel Shows, Danielle welcomes Jon Heder—best known for his iconic role as Napoleon Dynamite—for a rich, funny, and reflective conversation about his quirky ascent to cult fame, his twin brother hijinks, adjusting to sudden Hollywood attention, and the joys (and unique weirdness) of staying grounded in the entertainment industry. The pair dig into Jon’s unconventional acting origin story, behind-the-scenes tales from “Napoleon Dynamite” and “Blades of Glory,” his love of voice acting, and his current run on Fox’s reality hit “Nation’s Dumbest.” Danielle and Jon bond over being forever identified with their famous characters, discuss the highs and lows of family life, and compare notes on 2000s pop phenomenon.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Living With an Iconic Role

Time: 04:34 - 06:33

• Danielle and Jon bond over being permanently linked to a single role:

  “You know, Topanga and Napoleon will be mentioned first in our obituaries, and that is a special bond.”
  — Danielle Fishel (04:25)

• Jon’s take:

  • He avoids airports because fans often shout “Napoleon.”
  • Sometimes ignores it, especially if it’s rowdy teens.
  • Jon’s identical twin Dan gets mistaken for Jon (and Napoleon), sparking “twin shenanigans” stories.

  “I avoid the airports. I just take boat now.”
  — Jon Heder (04:34)
  “He doesn’t mind getting mistaken as me... We both grew up getting called [each other’s] name.”
  — Jon Heder (05:47)

• Twin switch stories: Swapping belts and classroom shenanigans, especially memorable in kindergarten and sixth grade.

2. Childhood, Siblings, and Chaos

Time: 08:28 - 10:15

• Jon comes from a big family (one sister, four brothers including his twin).
• Household described as loud, chaotic, all in good fun.
• Deep respect for his mother, who had to “yell to be heard.”

  “My poor, sweet mother…when it was mom yelling time, and there was a lot of yelling from mom...It’s not abuse, it’s not anger. It’s just like, literally, I have to get my voice over theirs.”
  — Jon Heder (09:06)

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3. The Origin of Napoleon Dynamite

Time: 10:15 - 15:11

• Jon’s path:

  • Met filmmaker Jared Hess at BYU.
  • Acted in Jared’s $500 short film—“Napoleon Dynamite” was born.

• Character inspiration:

  • Noted absence of any “teendom awkwardness” on screen at the time.
  • Only later realized Napoleon could be read as a character on the autism spectrum.
  • The specifics—curly hair, glasses, moon boots—developed layer by layer with Jared.

  “No one has seen this character yet…there’s something besides just your typical nerd. It’s not that he’s book smart. There’s a social awkwardness.”
  — Jon Heder (10:56)

• Acting background:

  • Family always did theater camps.
  • Loved filmmaking and acting in his own videos.
  • Didn’t plan on being an actor—was interested in animation.

  “I was studying animation. I was big into art…maybe I’ll go to LA, but not for that reason.”
  — Jon Heder (16:02)

• The feature film:

  • Short film’s success led to feature.
  • Didn’t imagine breakout success; expected cult indie, not “a worldwide phenomenon.”

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4. Making of “Napoleon Dynamite”

Time: 18:22 - 23:21

• Quick shooting, small budget (<$500K), “felt like a student project.”

• Real crew and Hollywood actors elevated the project, but Jon never felt nervous.

• Jon and Jared shared a creative wavelength:

  “Jared’s directions: ‘You know what you did in the short film? Just do more of that.’”
  — Jon Heder (20:08)

• The film’s signature “anti-comedy” style:

  • Long silent beats and awkwardness were always in Jared’s vision.
  • Every pause and moment scripted precisely, no extra improv.

  “All the actors, after seeing us film, immediately, ‘Oh, I see, this is not the kind of film where we’re gonna fill it in with improv…Every line is exactly to the script…We want the pauses.’”
  — Jon Heder (22:04)

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5. Handling Sudden Fame & Staying Grounded

Time: 26:43 - 28:50

• Jon attributes staying grounded to being a bit older (24-25), already married, and knowing the kind of person he wanted to be.

• Awareness of “E! True Hollywood Story” style downfalls.

  “That helped, yeah. Just having some of that kind of like grounding…not so much actor, but I knew what kind of person I wanted to be and how I conduct myself.”
  — Jon Heder (27:09)

• No interest in wild parties or risky Hollywood behavior.

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6. The Sequel That Never Was & “Minecraft” Homages

Time: 29:03 - 30:39

• No “Napoleon Dynamite 2”—Fox pushed for it, but Jared (and Jon) wanted to do other things.
• Danielle points out “Minecraft” (directed by Jared Hess) has subtle homage: set in Idaho, “tot factory” reference.

  “I’m very, you know, precious and respectful. Like, this is…their baby. I helped create it, but it’s not my call…I agreed right away; Fox was very much like, let’s make a sequel. And Jared was like, I want to do other things. Totally makes sense.”
  — Jon Heder (30:37)

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7. Running With the Hollywood Big Leagues

Time: 31:01 - 38:12

• Studio films: “Benchwarmers,” “School for Scoundrels,” “Blades of Glory” all in rapid succession.
• Major difference: studio food catering.
  • Gained 15 pounds on “Benchwarmers” from craft services.
  • “Blades of Glory” required training, diet, and regimen.
• Describes the thrill (and anxiety) of working with Will Ferrell, many “pinch myself” moments.

  “It was Will Ferrell. That was a dream come true…It was a dream—I didn’t know I had dreamt of that.”
  — Jon Heder (36:04)

  • Initially Ben Stiller was cast to co-star before Will Ferrell replaced him.
• Filming “Blades of Glory”:
  • The cold and the skating training are his strongest memories.
  • Skating isn’t “like riding a bike”—each return feels like starting from scratch.
• Danielle and Jon compare the challenge of getting “back into” dance and skating after a break:

  “I feel very much the same way about dance…after any sort of break…the minute you get back into it…How do I—gotta get all of this back into place.”
  — Danielle Fishel (38:47)

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8. Jon Heder as a Voice Actor & Parenting Perspective

Time: 42:39 - 45:32

• Danielle’s kids love “Monster House,” where Jon voices Skull.
• Jon’s own four kids are indifferent to most of his movies, but love his animated work, especially “Pickle and Peanut.”

  “They don’t care that much about my movies…Pickle and Peanut…was the first time when it first came out that we all sat down as a family…laughed our butts off.”
  — Jon Heder (42:56, 43:54)

• Notes that his kids prefer when they’re not “seeing Dad”—just hearing his voice as a cartoon.

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9. Competing on “Nation’s Dumbest”

Time: 45:32 - 51:38

• Jon stars in a new celebrity trivia/reality show with contestants like Ice T, Jojo Siwa, Dr. Drew, Carmen Electra, Hilaria Baldwin.
• Only met fellow contestants on-camera; none knew the roster in advance.
• Immediately bonded with others over the show’s premise:

  “We’ve all agreed to make fun of ourselves for the next X amount of episodes…That’s going to be the whole premise…moments where we look stupid.”
  — Jon Heder (46:09)

• No secrets or serious alliances; just collective readiness for embarrassment.
• Weakness: sports-related trivia.
• Strengths: general knowledge, math, English, spelling, older pop culture.
• Spelling bee episode derailed by teammates:

  “I remember thinking, yes, I got this. And then, you know, you find out it’s a team challenge and you’re only as good as your teammates…I don’t got this.”
  — Jon Heder (49:49–49:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Being Permanently Tied to a Role:
  “You know, Topanga and Napoleon will be mentioned first in our obituaries, and that is a special bond.” – Danielle Fishel (04:25)

• On Grounding in Fame:
  “That helped, yeah. Just having some of that kind of like grounding…I knew what kind of person I wanted to be and how I conduct myself.” – Jon Heder (27:09)

• On 'Napoleon Dynamite' Style:
  “Every line is exactly to the script…We want the pauses.” – Jon Heder (22:04)

• On the Skating in ‘Blades of Glory’:
  “I loved learning a craft for a film. That was really fun.” – Jon Heder (37:51)

• On His Kids’ Indifference:
  “The blanket statement is no, they don’t care that much about my movies.” – Jon Heder (42:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:34] Fan encounters & “twin” confusion
• [06:33] Sibling chaos & respect for mom
• [10:15] Acting origins & creation of Napoleon Dynamite
• [15:11] Showbiz aspirations and surprises
• [18:22] Making indie into a feature film
• [21:49] Pauses, beats, and the art of awkward comedy
• [26:43] Staying personally grounded after sudden fame
• [29:03] Homages & why there’s no Napoleon sequel
• [31:01] Working with Hollywood legends, studio perks
• [36:04] Skating/Will Ferrell memories from “Blades of Glory”
• [42:39] Voice acting, kids’ reactions, and family life
• [45:32] Competing on “Nation’s Dumbest,” trivia strengths/weaknesses
• [51:38] Wrap-up and outro

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Tone & Atmosphere

Danielle keeps the conversation light, nostalgic, and peppered with self-deprecating humor. Jon is warm, sincere, and honest about both the silliness and seriousness of his professional journey. Both maintain an air of fun and gratitude throughout, with occasional bursts of laughter and inside-industry observations.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a treasure trove for fans of early 2000s pop culture, acting process nerds, and anyone curious about the oddities of sudden fame. Jon Heder’s perspective is both refreshingly humble and quietly insightful. The episode is breezy, engaging, and loaded with nostalgia, behind-the-scenes details, and industry wisdom.

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Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Jon Heder]

She's an absolute pioneer in the sport.

[Commercial Announcer]

Defends her PFL world title one last time. Unforgettable end to an unforgettable career. Saturday, August 22nd live from Benchmark International Arena. For tickets, visit pfl.infotampa.

[Danielle Fishel]

the Breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pops are going solo. Now fans must pick a side and help crown the Flavor Feud champion with a chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then vote by shouting out your favorite on social. And don't forget to follow the Flavor Feud drama summer long on Instagram. Opsicle.

[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Cal Penn]

Your bill, ladies.

[Danielle Fishel]

I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Jon Heder]

I insisted first.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[Jon Heder]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Cal Penn]

Shoot. No.

[Jon Heder]

The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. Give me money for cigarettes. I'll never leave your cooking bed. I stay the night. And one night weekend, two or three years, the kids are not all right. But that's okay, cuz no one here is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hello and welcome back to Teen Beat. I'm your host, Danielle Fishel, back again, ready to interview interesting people who have done interesting things all about their childhoods. I've realized that you can't know where you're going without remembering where you've been. That's not only a saying you can buy on an embroidered throw pillow at Hobby Lobby, it is also the truth. I see it this way. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. And this week, I am thrilled to dig a little Deeper with a very special guest. It's impossible to recount the pop culture landscape of the 2000s without this man's dance solo. A cinematic moment that captured a nation turning a micro budget indie movie into a worldwide phenomenon. Thanks to his legendary portrayal of Pedro's campaign manager, moviegoers fell in love with him, somehow turning one of the most ridiculous characters of the decade into also the most earnest and heartfelt. He went on to star in movies like Benchwarmers, Blades of Glory, and Surf's up, constantly working since he first stumbled into the spotlight when a college friend asked him to star in a short film. And now he's sort of returning to academia in the form of Fox's new reality hit Nation's Dumbest. He's competing in brain challenging games and physical challenges to find out if he's smarter than fellow celebs like Carmen Electra or Matt Leinart. But you can form your own opinion right now, because this week on Teen Beat, it's a man with great skills, John Heater. John, thank you so much for hanging out with me on Teen Beat. We have never met, yet I feel a very special connection to you because we are two people who will forever be called by our character names. You know, Topanga and Napoleon will be mentioned first in our obituaries, and that is a special bond. What do you think the ratio is between John and Napoleon when people yell at you in airports?

[Jon Heder]

Oh, boy. I avoid the airports. I just take boat now.

[Cal Penn]

It's hard.

[Jon Heder]

It's much longer. I have to, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

But you avoid being yelled at.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah. You know, when I, it's, I mean, you know, the older we get, the more cantankerous old man I become. I don't get, you know, I never, I would never yell. But, you know, sometimes I, I play, I play the game. I play the game if someone, if someone obnoxious will just yell out Napoleon. Sometimes I just, I pretend I don't hear or anything. And then, especially if they're younger, if it's like a, like a teenager kid that come up, like, I was like, oh, you mean John, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right, right.

[Jon Heder]

Or me. Are you talking to me? You know, kind of thing. Or if they're far enough in an airport, I just, like, I always have my headphones on. I pretend I don't hear half the times. I probably don't hear.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. Yeah. You're like, did I? Yeah, never mind. You're also an identical twin, which is the second identical twin I have interviewed on our podcast. We had Nikki And Brie Bella, on the podcast, does your brother hate being mistaken as both John and Napoleon?

[Jon Heder]

That's funny. No, he doesn't mind getting mistaken as. As, I guess, me meaning, like, he grew up his whole life. We both grew up getting called.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

His name is Dan. So we'd always joke, like, well, my name is John, but I'm also known as Dan and Vice. He would say the same thing. So we always had that. And then, you know, he just doesn't go to airport.

[Danielle Fishel]

He just truly.

[Jon Heder]

He's saying he's. He doesn't get it as much, but he would still, you know, you get that look. Or someone would know or. More and more people are starting to become aware that I have a twin brother, so they can kind of. Oh, yeah, he's the. The lame man's Napoleon, right? He's the lame man's job. We could tell. We could tell.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys have lots of identities. Did you ever participate in twin shenanigans, switcheroos? Did it ever benefit you in any way?

[Jon Heder]

Benefit anything? Everything had to be funny to me. Everything had to, you know, entertain me. And that's when I thought that's how I, you know, taking comedies or if I think something good, it's got to be good to me. I don't care about the audience if I think it's good. I do care about the audience. But, yeah, we. For sure, when we. We were much younger, we had. When I remember in, like, kindergarten, we had shirts that I think, like, an aunt made for us when it had, like, a little hand that said, like, I'm Jonathan, he's Dan, and he had the opposite one with a hand pointing the other way. But we also had belts. And I remember my. I don't remember if my parents bought the belts, but our belts had our names on it, and they did it for the benefit of, like, our teachers.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Jon Heder]

So we on purpose would switch belts. And this was like, you know, kindergarten. But even up until I remember the. The biggest one we ever did, because we knew is probably the end of that era was sixth grade. We. We just decided the whole day we would switch places. Even so much like on the bus, I had a girl. There was a girl I was going out with.

[Danielle Fishel]

Of course. Yeah. Which meant you sat next to her on the bus.

[Jon Heder]

Exactly. That was the rule. Like, of course you sit next to us. And we had switched that day. So he was already sitting down. She sat down next time, took her a hot second before she was like, oh, my gosh, she screamed. It was so funny. And then we, like, switched for our classes the whole day. And his teacher was in on it. He. He got it. But my teacher was this older woman, and she was, like, completely clueless.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. She was just like, okay, this looks normal to me. So you got away with it that time?

[Jon Heder]

I got away with it, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

In addition to your twin brother Daniel, you have four other siblings as a kid. How loud and chaotic.

[Jon Heder]

Three other siblings I have. I was like, wait just a second.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow, you had to count your siblings. That's a lot of siblings.

[Jon Heder]

I'm so used to saying I have four. Four brothers and one sister. Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. So how loud and chaotic was your house?

[Jon Heder]

It was. It was pretty loud and chaotic. There was. Especially since my parents had a girl first.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

And she was, you know, the princess, and she was, you know, your very typical all American girl, and she was sweet. And then after that, it was just five boys in a row.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

Two of them being twins, which is already kind of mayhem in itself. But we were a tight knit group, and so we had absolute love and respect for our parents. But my poor sweet mother, you know, who I adore, she had to deal with that. And. And we could tell. We knew that when it was mom yelling time, and there was a lot of yelling from mom, we knew half the time, I think. I think in our hearts we. We kind of make fun of it. We were like, okay, she's yelling at us again. But I think deep down we knew it's like, she's yelling a. So that she can. We can hear her. Simply that it's not just. It's not abuse, it's not anger. It's just like, literally, I have to

[Danielle Fishel]

get my voice over theirs.

[Jon Heder]

I have to get. I have to beat them to it. I have to get the. And we were always like, yeah, messing around and stuff like that. And so. But, you know, when it came time to do chores, we. We would eventually buy days and get the chore done. Maybe not when we were exactly when we were supposed to, but I was like, no, you guys, come on. Like, let's get. Let's cut mom some slack.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we love her. Let's be a little kinder to her. I want to talk about your professional acting origin story. You go to BYU and you meet a fellow film student, Jared Hess, who is shooting a short film on 16 millimeter with a budget of under $500. And this becomes the birth of Napoleon Dynamite. Where did the character come from for you? It is so specific, so unique, and yet we all knew a Napoleon Dynamite.

[Jon Heder]

That's. Yeah, Jared came to me and he had. Yeah, he had this like, eight page script.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

And it was. And I read it and I just was like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, this is like, I get this guy. Yeah, I know this. And. And at the time, I remember thinking, you know, this is a short film. We were just film students. We weren't. We didn't have, like delusions of grandeur or anything like that. But I still remember thinking, no one has seen this character yet. Yeah, we've had oddball misfits. We've had like a couple nerd movies, but not. Nothing that. Where we showcase this kind of awkwardness in teendom, you know, in. In the teen years, like kind of a nerd. But there's something besides just your typical nerd. It's not that he's book smart. There's a social awkwardness. I mean, nowadays I could probably just say, oh, go back in time. At the time, I didn't think about it, but going. But going now I could been like, oh, yeah, we've never had a movie or show where an autistic kid was.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, a kid on the spectrum, right?

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, kid on the pet spectrum. 100%. But, you know, I don't even think I was that aware of it back then. I didn't even think about it. It wasn't until years later that people started coming up to me, either, like my son or myself. Huge fan. How we connected. I was like, oh, my gosh, that clicked. Yeah, that clicked as it makes sense. But, yeah, I knew. I knew some kids who were kind of like that, but not, like, pictured 100%. It wasn't all on the page. The curly hair and the glasses and the moon boots, I don't even think were in the script yet. It was just kind of the voice. And Jared, you know, did his version of the voice. And then I was just like, yeah, this is kind of how I used to talk when I was a kid. And my younger brothers especially talked a lot like this. And so that's when Jared and I, you know, we're like, okay, well, so what's he gonna wear?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Jon Heder]

His wife was like, oh, I think we should get you a perm. So that all the imagery of it, how he looked, was kind of born out of first. First came, like, the voice and the composure and stuff like that. And then it came like the. The physicality came next.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you have any acting aspirations before this project?

[Jon Heder]

I had done my, like, acting was kind of big in my family, which was weird. My dad was a doctor. My mom had no acting experience. But my older siblings, my. My old and my sister, we were always put in, like, the local, you know, kid acting summer camps. And it was just became a thing every year, and they did really well. My especially my older brother was cast, like, as the lead in most of the high school plays. And so it just felt like, well, we got to do some theater education.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And I always thought it was cool. And there's, of course, that feeling as I kid, like, do I. That would be so rad if I was a lead in that play or if I got to do that. But I didn't really. I could be goofy, but I didn't know how to pitch my voice or to really, you know, be myself. I didn't. I didn't understand that. And then in high school, I started making a lot of videos. I got really into video production. Like, I guess you'd say filmmaking, but, you know, we had video camera. It was like the.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

Like the birth of handicams. And you had. You could take cameras anywhere, drop them, they're fine. And so I just became obsessed with that, and that's when I knew I wanted to make film. And because of that, you know, you have to act in your own videos. You don't go to a local casting agency, you know, in high school. So I would be in my own videos. And that was the beginning, I would say, of like, okay, stepping outside of my shell a little bit, getting a little bit more comfortable, but not understanding the principles at all.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And then it was at byu. It was at college when I studied film, and because of that, I had to take, you know, required classes, one of them being acting. And that really was the first time I took an acting class where I was. It opened my eyes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Oh, it's. Everything fell into place. I was like, now I get it. Now I get just, you know, some of the simple principles. You're like, I. That makes sense to me. That. That totally makes sense. So I really. I loved it. I enjoyed it. I started, like, auditioning for student films.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

For student plays. I never. I didn't get an agent. I didn't. Had no major aspirations. But it kept. You know, I did pay Luca was the name of the short film I did with Jared Hess, and I had done that. And then, like I said, I got cast and a couple other student film. So I kept thinking, you know, they keep casting me. Maybe there's something there. But I don't know. I can't see myself of Ever going to la. And.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

I saw myself going to la, but I was gonna, I was on an animation track.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

I was going to be an animator. I was studying animation. I was big into art. And so it was still filmmaking to a certain degree. And I thought, yeah, maybe I'll go to la. But. But not for that reason.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, not for this reason. So you finish the project for. With Jared after it wraps. Do you ever expect it to go

[Jon Heder]

anywhere when we, when we shot the short film? No, not the short film. Because short films don't go anywhere normally. And I mean, as a student, I knew that. I was aware that. All right, okay. I know sometimes you can use a short film to help you a. For the director kind of conceive and understand. Like, all right, this makes sense. This helps me. I know that you can get them into film festivals and maybe get eyes on it. But we didn't really use it for, you know, it was all finance. The feature film was financially, it was financed by one guy, basically.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

And it wasn't through, you know, film festivals. It was a friend of ours, brother. It was his older brother who knew about it. So no, I, I had no. I remember thinking the short film was great. And it wasn't until Jared said, hey, I want to make a feature length version.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And this was probably like, you know, like three months later after the short film that he said that. But again, it was going to be like another year, year and a half before we shot the feature. So he's like, I just want you to know, I want to make a feature. It's going to be a while. We, you know, we got to write the script, we got to figure out funding.

[Commercial Announcer]

So.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah. But even, even then, it's like I wasn't really thinking big picture. I'm just thinking rad. Of course, that makes sense. And maybe, maybe when you have something, when you have a film, someone's gonna see this somewhere. We're gonna get more than just my extended family watching this movie.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

Even if it's in a couple film festivals. And you get those kind of filmgoers who like weird, quirky independent films. Yes, that's kind of what I said. That's where, that's where my expectations were lying at that moment.

[Danielle Fishel]

So that time passes that year, year and a half, you get, you guys get the funding, just under half a million dollars. And it's now going to be a feature film. It's now a month long shoot and there are real cameras and a real cast. Diedrich Bader, Hillary Duff's sister. Were you nervous?

[Jon Heder]

Oh, no, no, I wasn't nervous. I was excited. I. I still felt like this was. It felt like a student project the whole time, even though I knew it wasn't officially a student project, but all the crew were. I knew all the crew because they were just buddy. Like, film student buddies and stuff. A few graduates. We were like, oh, they've worked in the local Utah Film Commission for a couple years.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Jon Heder]

We got. We're legit. But you know what? Legitimized. It was like you said, the other actors, we. I was like, well, we got DJ Bader, John Grice. We got Tina Majorino. I was like, okay, so that's cool. That's really cool. But I still was. I understood. I had been studying film. I understood, like, this is a small. This is an independent film. I don't think they're getting paid very much.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Just agreed to this weird project and. But, yeah, I wasn't really nervous. I was, you know, I get along with people great. And it was like. And plus, I knew it wasn't. Maybe if I had, I probably would have been more nervous if I played a small role cast in, like, a Hollywood feature. Something was like, oh, this is legit. And if I could get fired if I don't do this right? I was like, Jared and I. Jared was at the helm, and Jared and I were very similar. And he was just like, yeah, Jared John, his directions, like, yeah, you know what you did in the short film? Just do more of that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just do that for longer.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I knew I had the job. I wasn't nervous, like, I was gonna get fired or anything like that. And we felt so confident and what we were bringing to the table, him and I, in terms of. Because it's like, this is the main character. We've got that down. And this is the story in his world. And so it's really. I think I remember, you know, John and Efren more. So Efren, who plays Pedro.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And Tina, I think they were a little bit more nervous because Efren has, you know, worked in Hollywood a little bit, but he wasn't a name, and. And this was his biggest role today. And Tina Majorino, who was a child actor but hadn't done anything in her, quote, unquote, adult years. This is. She was 18, so she wanted to come back and say, all right, I want to do a movie now. It's no longer cutesy little Majorino. I want to do a little bit more of an. It Sounds weird. More of an adult role, but, yes, a little more mature. So I think there was nerves coming from the other end, and we were all just sitting back like, let's see what you got. Let's see what you got.

[Danielle Fishel]

There is so much silence in the movie, like long beats for jokes. And it is really one of the first instances of this kind of anti comedy that's become the norm now. But for me, I realized in sitcoms where silence is like death. Do you remember Jared editing in those pauses or were they always in the script? But it is so good.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, they were. It was always there. That was. I think it was from the get go when we did pay, Luca and I could see Jared had a very specific cadence and timing to what he thought was funny.

[Commercial Announcer]

And.

[Jon Heder]

And it made sense immediately. Anybody who got it. Yeah, anybody who got it. And most people would get it right away, like, oh, I get. This is a real life kind of thing. This is kind of how it's his vision of. Because he grew up in that area in Preston, Idaho, and that went to that high school and everything. So it's just. I. It was very observational. I just. He. His approach was like, I'm. We're taking a step back, and this is a portrait. I want you. I want my audience to kind of see this portrait of these weird, kind of awkward characters. And because of that, everybody, pretty much all the actors, after reading script, but also seeing us film just a few scenes immediately, oh, I see. This is not the kind of film where we're gonna fill it in with improv. We're gonna try to throw in our own lines. Every line is exactly to the script. Mostly because we want the pauses in that breath in between all the moments.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

Were so important. That was. That's what helped make each of those little lines stand out and be really funny and work and. And so everybody was smart, like they got it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Saturday, August 22nd in Tampa. Witness an MMA legend's final fight. Chris Cyborg, one of the greatest in history.

[Jon Heder]

She's an absolute pioneer in the sport.

[Commercial Announcer]

Defends her PFL world title one last time. Unforgettable and unforgettable career. Saturday, August 22nd, live from Benchmark International Arena. For tickets, visit pfl.infotampa.

[Cal Penn]

hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Ear, say the Audible and Iheart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already. It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a media tour collide with a slow burn romance. It's performed by Simu Liu and Philippa Hsu and it is an absolute blast.

[Danielle Fishel]

When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence like the cat in the corner is black. In my head it's the cat in the corner is black, not the dog, not the gerbil. But someone else might say it the cat in the corner is black. That's always fascinating to me how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun in interesting and distinctive.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Heder]

This summer there are 250 reasons to

[Danielle Fishel]

join T Mobile Girls Trip booked and switching to T Mobile help make it

[Jon Heder]

happen with experience beyond switch and get $100 back plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That's $750 in your first year guaranteed.

[Danielle Fishel]

And honestly, that hundred dollars back, I'm putting it towards the zipline now.

[Jon Heder]

That's how you do summer.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. Best switch I ever made.

[Jon Heder]

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons why find yours savings based on the value of benefits included with experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic and DashPass on us. Benefits may require activation CPlan. For details get $100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported no cash access

[Cal Penn]

and expires in six months.

[Jon Heder]

Issued by Sunrise Banks and a member FDIC.

[Commercial Announcer]

Allow eight weeks Ice Cube's big three season is heating up and it all comes down to this. The Big three playoffs are coming to Dallas, Texas. The four best teams in the Big three battle it out for a spot in the the action starts with the legendary Big three Celebrity Game. Three games of the most physical, competitive and non stop three on three action. The game played the way you love. Watch Live Saturday on CBS at 12pm Eastern, 9am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeartrading.

[Danielle Fishel]

How did you stay grounded? Then after this movie comes out, a lot of people are kind of plucked from outside Hollywood, thrown into a once in a generation Cinderella story and then they get into some real trouble. How did you avoid the E. True Hollywood Story?

[Jon Heder]

I wasn't super young. That helped. I was already married.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, that helps.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, freshly married. That helped yeah. Just having some of that kind of like grounding that. I was like, all right, I. I know what kind of person. Not so much actor, but I knew what kind of person I wanted to be and how I conduct myself and how the kind of people I, you know, you know, work with and who I want to associate myself with. And I just kind of already had that built in a little bit. And so. And, you know, I was aware of that story, I think. I think truly it was the age, you know, when I shot this, I was 25, 24, 25 when I shot it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

So I was already in my mid-20s and I was like, not that I was like, so I was still a baby to the industry.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

But at least to, you know, who I was. And again, yeah. Kind of knowing what kind of person I want to be. I was just like, yeah, there was a grounding there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And I was like going in, headfirst into this industry, not knowing, you know, exactly how it worked, but at least I was like, you know, I'm not going to that. That's going to be the part that I'm going to maybe make some stupid decisions like turning down this project or saying yes to this project, but that's going to extent of that. Who I, you know, deal with or getting. Having, you know, getting into, whether it's parties or drugs or, I don't know, dark alleyways.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Cal Penn]

That.

[Danielle Fishel]

That had already been decided. You had already decided.

[Jon Heder]

It didn't interest me at all. I was like, I was always from the get go, like, I don't need to go to a party, do I?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

And if anything seems shady or weird, you know, I just walk away.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah. I don't know. I think. Yeah. I just. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I've always been shocked that there was no Napoleon Dynamite 2 with that kind of success. But I did want to know if you saw the Minecraft movie. It's directed by Jared, and there are so many homages to Napoleon Dynamite. And at times it kind of felt like a reinterpretation.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, no, I saw it. I saw it. And of course, you know, seeing. I'm like just knowing Jared as like, oh, wow, it takes place in Idaho, but, you know, that's just who he is. That's where he's from.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

And there was a tot mention there's something like a Top Factory or something. Yeah, I remember that. I was like, okay, it's doing a little couple nods. Yeah, we, you know, with the whole. The sequel thing. Yeah. I just this and the simple Answer is just like, you never know. I mean, I suppose something could still happen, right? It could still happen. But I, you know, it's like, this is. I'm very, you know, precious and respectful. Like, this is to Jared's, and Jared and Jerusha's. This is their baby. This is their creation. I helped create it, but it's not my call. And I'm, you know, I'm not saying whether or not I would. I agreed right away. You know, Fox was very much like, let's make, you know, let's make a sequel. And Jared was like, I want to do other things. I was like, yeah, it totally makes sense.

[Cal Penn]

So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, fine.

[Jon Heder]

And so we'll see. We'll see what happens.

[Danielle Fishel]

We'll see what happens. I like that answer. I do. I love that answer. Your next projects that you go into are Benchwarmers, School for Scoundrels, and Blades of Glory, co starring David Spade, Billy Bob Thornton and Will Ferrell. Basically three movies in two years with Legends. Did you ever sleep?

[Jon Heder]

I slept great. I ate even better.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love it.

[Jon Heder]

That was. That was a change doing. Doing studio films and like, oh, this is what craft services is like. This is what catering is supposed to be like. I think a bench warmers. I gained. I swear, I gained, like, 15 pounds.

[Commercial Announcer]

Really?

[Jon Heder]

Yeah. I didn't. I didn't know how to like. Because the difference was, is, like, you got. I shot bad George was. What was I shot before? Blades of Glory. That was one of the first ones I shot. And that truly was like. And I was there for the long haul. I. I shot, like, a couple other studio films right before, but it was like Day player kind of thing. Coming in for a few days, not really experiencing the whole thing. But first, bigger role, I guess, you know, bench Wars. But it was Bench Orders, you know, produced by Sandler's. Adam Sandler's Happy Del Mario. They were known for, like, just catering to the nines. And. And so I was there, and we shot for, like, three months. We don't have to do anything. I'm not training because my coach is supposed to stink at baseball. So they're like, no, you don't have to train Rob Schneider. We'll put him in the tr. In the batting cages all day long. He's got to be good. But, yeah, you guys can just eat and talk, relax and relax. And that's what we did. But then, of course, I guess when Blades of Glory came around, I had to. This is the first one I did where I was like, oh, you Got to train. You got to train skating. You got to get in shape. You've got a regimen of, like, what we were eating. So I was like. It was like, yeah, polar opposites. Like, I got there and yeah, they had amazing catering, but I had an assistant who was like, bring me my meals.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, you're bringing you broiled salmon.

[Jon Heder]

Exactly. And the salads and the fish and everything. I was like, okay, whatever, I'll do it. I had a blast. But it was, yeah. Completely different experience. Yeah, it was. But there was a. That was a crazy time. That was a crazy time. When you say no sleep. It was like I. To me, that ex. Those, like, first couple years, first three years was all about my Thomas guide and me. And if you remember the Thomas guide.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure do.

[Jon Heder]

I had. We didn't have phones, we didn't have smartphones. And so I just had to learn la. Yeah. Learn la. And drive meetings beyond meetings. Meeting casting agents, casting directors, producers, agents, actors, writers, everyone. And so it was. It was less about the no sleep and more about, like the mileage I put on my car.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Think of all the time we wasted back then of sitting in traffic.

[Jon Heder]

No.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, now we just hop onto a zoom. It's like, it's not an hour drive to CAA for a 45 minute. I know. It is.

[Jon Heder]

There was. I loved exploring in my car and getting to know the canyons and all the different freeways.

[Danielle Fishel]

When I first started driving, that was my number one most exciting thought was, I can't wait to drive the canyons. It was like, this is everything.

[Commercial Announcer]

And no.

[Jon Heder]

And no amount of exploring those canyons and doing the freeways. Were you still. Like, none of this makes sense. Like, what. This is the worst layout. Like, all right, so now I got to go here. And it's always bad. It's. It was crazy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I know. Unlike New York, that's a real grid system. There is no rhyme or reason to Los Angeles streets or even freeways. So. People love Blades of Glory. I think it has only grown in popularity and cult status over the years. What is your. Other than the diet and workout regimen, what do you remember most from making that movie?

[Jon Heder]

I think it was the. It was the. The cold.

[Danielle Fishel]

The cold. Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

The weather.

[Jon Heder]

It was the cold. Difference between a lot of the other projects. Not just. It was the. It was the apex of. Of my film experience in terms of like, this is the biggest one yet. This is so Night and Day. From coming from small independent film, Napoleon coming to big budget Hollywood movie. You've Got the biggest star, Will Ferrell.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

You've got a huge crew, special effects teams. You got double. I mean, it was just. It was so different. And that's really what I remember the most, was just how different. But also that the skating. Will and skating. Will and skating were like the two things I remember the most because, you know, it was Will Ferrell. That was a dream come true. It was like. It was a dream. I. I also. It was like, it's unrealized dream come true. Like, I didn't. I didn't know I had dreamt of that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. You didn't even know you could dream of that.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, exactly. It's not like I thought, oh, maybe one day I'll get to do a movie with Will. It was.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

It wasn't. It was actually. It was. You know, the quick version was. It was Ben Stiller who was first cast in that role. He came to me about doing this movie, him and I. Yeah. And his. His team produced it, but scheduling conflicts came up a little. Just a little bit later, and he couldn't do it, but he was like, don't worry, I'm still making this movie. We'll get some good. And then that's when they cast Will. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. Well, that's a pretty great replacement. I didn't exactly do better. And so it was very. I was like, really? Well, that's like, are you serious? Like, so it was a very much pinch myself moment. He was extremely wonderful to work with. I. He was like what you would hope for in a, you know, dream of, like, in a person like him, down to earth. Very kind and sweet and. And professional, but also extremely funny. Just like, he was the cool kid, you know, show me around the digs and let. Let me hang out with the other cool kids.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

But then the skating. And then skating was, you know, I. I loved the skating. I wasn't like a skater before. I had gone a couple times growing up as a kid, you know, But I. And I remember thinking, oh, yeah, you guys. When they asked, like, do you have experience? I was like, yeah, yeah, I've got experience. And then, of course, we hit the ice, and I'm like, oh, man, this is like relearning the bicycle. And I took to it and I. I loved it. And it was so much fun. And getting to do that, that was a big thing. I loved learning a craft for a film. That was really fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Have you skated since?

[Jon Heder]

I have skated since. And it's not. It's not like riding a bike. Right. I can still pull off the stuff, but it's. It feels like riding a bike that every time you get on that bike. No. Even if you rode it two days before and it was serviced and it was oiled and. And it was in working condition.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

It's like, you can get on that bike, but immediately like, oh, this is rusty, but this is old. Like, I gotta fix it. It's like, that's what it feels like every. Even when we're training, every day. Get on the ice. Like, I have to relearn it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Because it's just a different beast. So I can still do some of the same stuff. But it is. It's not an easy hobby to just keep going. You gotta. It's. It's. Yeah. I don't get to go ice skating all the time. And when I do, I'm like, oh, I feel like eyes. I'm like, I've gotta. I've gotta show it. I've gotta perform.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

I don't know if I could do it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I needed a solid hour of just warming up. I feel very much the same way about dance. When I. When I'm dancing every day for four hours a day, you are oiled up, you're in the mode. But then after any sort of break, even if it's just a few days to a week, the minute you get back into it, you're like, what am I supposed. How do I. I've gotta get the. All of this back into. Back into place.

[Jon Heder]

Absolutely. Yeah. Same thing.

[Commercial Announcer]

Saturday, August 22nd in Tampa. Witness an MMA legend's final fight. Chris Cyborg. One of the greatest in history.

[Jon Heder]

She's an absolute pioneer in the sport.

[Commercial Announcer]

Defense her PFL world title one last time. Unforgettable end to an unforgettable career. Saturday, August 22nd, live from Benchmark International Arena. For tickets, visit pfl.infotampa.

[Cal Penn]

hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn, the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week I'm sitting down with author Matt Dinneman and narrator Jeff Hayes to talk about dungeon crawler Carl. Matt had one line in a notebook from middle school alien game show. It took him until 2019 to finally write it. But what came out was an out of this world audiobook phenomenon. We talked about that origin talking cat with a charisma stat that breaks the game and what it takes to voice an entire world.

[Jon Heder]

Fiction is bull. So you gotta trick me into caring about what you're talking about. And that's always what I have thought of as my job. So as a narrator I always want to keep you engaged by making you feel as if I care as a narrator. And when I do dialogue, I don't want to tell you what the characters are saying I want you to hear firsthand.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Heder]

This summer there are 250 reasons to

[Danielle Fishel]

join T Mobile Girls Trip booked and switching to T Mobile help make it

[Jon Heder]

happen with experience beyond switch and get $100 back plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That $750 in your first year guaranteed.

[Danielle Fishel]

And honestly that hundred dollars back, I'm putting it towards the zipline now.

[Jon Heder]

That's how you do summer.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. Best switch I ever made.

[Jon Heder]

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons find yours

[Commercial Announcer]

Savings

[Jon Heder]

based on the value of benefits included with Experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic and DashPass on US benefits may require activation C plan for details get $100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported, no cash access and expires in six months. Issued by Sunrise Banks and a member FDIC.

[Commercial Announcer]

Allow eight weeks Ice Cube's big three season is heating up and it all comes down to this. The Big three playoffs are coming to Dallas, Texas. The four best teams in the Big three battle it out for a spot in the championship. The action starts with the legendary Big three Celebrity Game. Three games of the most physical, competitive and non stop three on three action. The game played the way you love. Watch Live Saturday on CBS at 12pm Eastern, 9am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET presented by iHeartra.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well in our house you are not Napoleon Dynamite. You are Skull from Monster House, which is a favorite of my five and seven year olds.

[Jon Heder]

Oh wow. That's awesome.

[Danielle Fishel]

You have four beautiful kids. Do they have a favorite of your movies?

[Jon Heder]

I would say deeper cut here right now. They they've all gone through phases and but the blanket statement is no, they don't care that much about my movies.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like you know my kids feel the same way about me.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, yeah. They're like. But like you know they went through this. My youngest, my nine year old, she's definitely into. She likes Napoleon. She does like Napoleon I. But that's mostly what she's seen. I have not. There's a couple others I haven't shown her yet and you know. And a couple of Them have seen the other ones, but they're like. But I think the one project I've done that for the first time when it first came out that we all sat down as a family, every single one watched it and laughed our butts off was Pickle and Peanut and, and not a lot of people know about it, but I'm always putting the word out. It was a Disney cartoon. It was a Disney show we did for two seasons.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

And it's like it's, it was, it felt the most irreverent Disney ever got, but it was like kind of spongebob squarepants meets Ren and Stimpy. It's just about a pickle and a peanut. And they're two friends, like high school buddies who live in Reno, Nevada and they just get up to nonsense and it's totally crazy and wild and it's. It was so much fun to do that voice work kind of from. With the creators creating each episode and then. And yeah, we would. We just sit around and we're re watching it now with my 9 year old because she did. She was too young when.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

First came out and so. And she's loving it. She's loving it. And so that of all my projects.

[Danielle Fishel]

Back to your original love. Back to the thing you thought you were going to move to LA and do.

[Jon Heder]

It's easier. I think the animated stuff, like, they really liked the, the. We did an animated Napoleon series for like, you know, six episodes. And she, they, the kids really like that as well. Because I think because it's when it's voiceover, they're not seeing dad. They're saying they're seeing a pickle or they're seeing some animated character that they. Yeah, there's. That's true now I think about. There's. I did his character on Star versus the Forces of Evil.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, I did that cartoon.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah. And they, that was probably. They would say, oh, that's my favorite thing you've done. And they respected and loved it because again, they're not seeing me. They're just hearing their voice and they.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

A cool project, you know, that's so great. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to talk to you about Nation's dumbest before you go. Oh, yeah, yeah, you are. You have some fellow contestants, including Ice t, my pal Jojo Siwa, Dr. Drew, who felt like real competition until he was eliminated in week one, Carmen Electra and Hilaria Baldwin. And I'm not asking for any spoilers, but did you all get along the entire time?

[Jon Heder]

Oh, we got on great Okay. I think what really helped is a we. Nobody knew who was going to be the other contestants until we were introduced each other on camera.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

They wanted to keep it secret. And so when we show up the first. First day in the classroom, which was like, you know, the main hub where I'm seeing everybody for the first time. And I'm so. Like, some of them, I'm not quite sure who they are, but, you know, I'm still recognizing some faces, but I think what really helps in those. Yes. It is an individual competition where each person is competing against the other to try to get off first. We want it to get off before the others.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

To get eliminated first. However, we're all. We all know the nature of this show. It's called Nation's dumbest. You know, you could be the winner. So there is automatically a sense of not just empathy, but, like, camaraderie that we're all feeling like a. We're all. We've all agreed to make fun of ourselves for the next X amount of episodes, whatever, and we get it. And we all know how that feels when you look dumb on camera. But that's going to be the whole premise. And. And the selling point of the show is watching how dumb we look and have moments of, you know, victory and for sure, where it feels good. But we all knew that there was going to be the chance and there was guaranteed to be moments where we look stupid, where we get a question wrong. So I think that helped us bond a little bit more. So we. We got along great.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

It was never like, I'm taking you. I don't know if, like, maybe that's how it is in Survivor or other reality competition shows, but we. We were like. Because there's nothing we could do to prepare, really. I mean, I know we were just like, well, you could start studying, but you have no idea. They're gonna. I remember there was the one thing I was like. I remember telling my teammates, because I was like, I know they're gonna ask this question, you guys, because they asked lots of random stuff. But don't forget that the. The Democratic Party is donkeys.

[Cal Penn]

No.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah, it's donkeys. And the Republican Party is elephants. And they are blue. And the donkeys are. No, sorry. The donkeys are blue. Yes. Now I'm forgetting. I was like, yeah, Democrats are blue. Yeah, Democrats are blue and the Republicans are red. And I was like, that seems simple enough, but that's something they're so going to test us on. They never asked that question. But that Was the only thing I remember telling the other team. It's. I was. The saying is like, okay, you guys, we would go over a couple things. I'd like just geography things or like, okay, don't forget, like simple things. Let's. Let's go over how many states are there. Yeah. We had a couple contestants who no matter what, if they were asked a kids question. Anything to do with nursing rhymes, TV shows, like kids shows, anything, they were just burning fails. So sometimes we sat there kind of reviewing. All right, here's all the Dr. Seuss books.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Here is what's on Nickelodeon right now. Or you know, or was on Nickelodeon and you know, in the 80s or something or, you know, some of. Or like even like nursery rhymes. Just stuff like that. It was, that was the extent of our study going in.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you feel like you had any specific educational strengths?

[Jon Heder]

I. I was like, okay, I was a good student. I can follow directions well. And that I think going to help. I was always pretty good at math, English, spelling. This isn't a spoiler because they already had the episode where we had the spelling bee. I remember thinking, yes, I got this. And then, you know, you find out it's a team challenge and you're only as good as your teammates.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

I don't got this.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't got it.

[Jon Heder]

I mean, maybe I got it. I don't know. Do you guys get. You guys, do you have it? Do you have it? No. And I get shake shaking heads.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, that's one thing.

[Jon Heder]

A lot of people are like, dude, I'm smart, but I can't spell very well. Yeah. Yeah. There was like elements of geography I'm good at, other elements I stink at, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

So what would you say an educational weakness was for you sports?

[Jon Heder]

And I don't even call that an education.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Jon Heder]

But I remember going and thinking this. A lot of this is based on trivia and a lot like trivial. Like if you remember that game Trivial Pursuit, they're going to have all these different, different categories. But I was like, if they ask questions, sports, I'm gonna fail. I. And they did ask some. And I got the ones that were about like, which sport involves this kind of, you know, these kinds of balls or something or these kinds of equipment, I was like, that I can do. But if it's going to be about players, stats, years, teams.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, forget it.

[Jon Heder]

Stuff like that, I like, I'm out. Yeah, I remember thinking that. And then like, pop culture. I'm really good at up to a certain years and specific things. Like movies. I. I've got movies.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jon Heder]

I've got most television music I'm really good at up until like, like the 2000. Then I'm pretty good with certain genres but like other things. Things with like. Yeah. And then pop culture tell like there was certain. That's where I lost the most, was just like things that I didn't feel stupid about. I was just like, oh, I just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Jon Heder]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Paying attention to current pop culture.

[Jon Heder]

Exactly. Like certain, certain things. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, you can watch Nation's Dumbest every Wednesday night on Fox at 9:00pm or the next day on Hulu, Disney plus or Tubi. John, thank you so much for chatting with me. It was a pleasure talking with you and meeting with you today.

[Jon Heder]

Thank you so much. It was as well for me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. Have a great day.

[Jon Heder]

You too.

[Danielle Fishel]

Bye. Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sudbaksh. The theme song is by Mark Hoppus. Yes, that Mark Hoppus. Follow us on Instagram teenbeatpod

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.