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This is an iHeart podcast.
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Guaranteed Human
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pool days. Call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a Char Broil Performance Series 4 burner gas grill. Now just $199. Plus get up to 45% off. Select major appliances to keep dishes, clothes and food fresh. Having fun in the sun is easy with us in your corner. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 527, while supplies last. Selection varies by see associate@lowe's.com for details.
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Let's be honest. Buying cannabis shouldn't be complicated, sketchy or low quality. That's why I want to tell you about mood.com that's m o o d.com Mood ships federally legal cannabis straight to your door. No medical card, no hassle. And here's the kicker. The quality is better than anything you'll find at your local dispensary. Yeah, I said it. Whether you're into edibles, concentrates, flour, or just looking to explore natural, you'll find it all at Mood. And it's not just the variety that makes them stand out. Every product is sourced from small American owned family farms that care deeply about what they grow. It's cannabis you can trust, delivered discreetly and ready to elevate your mood. And because you're a listener, you get 20% off your first order. Just head to mood.com, that's M-O-Ood.com to get started.
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Tired of overpaying with DirecTV? Dish offers a reliable low price every month without surprises. Get the TV you love and start watching live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps, all in one place. Switch to Dish today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV, starting at $89.99 a month with our two year price guarantee. Call 888, add dish or visit dish.com today. Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
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We invented a podcast.
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A
Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.
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B
We get to ask other people questions
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because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Give me money for cigarettes I'll never le I stay the night and one night be came two or three years the kids are not all right but that's okay cuz no one here is te beat.
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Hello and welcome to another installment of Teen Beat. I am your host, Danielle Fishel, continuing to talk to interesting people who do interesting things, all about how their teenage years shaped who they are today. Remember getting your ears pierced at Claire's, picking up some z cavariccis from Merry Go Round? Or just hoping it's pizza day at the cafeteria? Mmm, me too. Still, I love pizza day. And since my childhood, even the awkward parts were blasted onto millions of TV sets worldwide. It's time I turn the tables and find out what other celebrities were like at the most vulnerable time of their lives. I look at it this way. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. And this week I'm chatting with a legend of the South. He rose to attention in a mud pit, starring in one of the most exciting debut music videos of all time for his 2001 hit single Ugly, a track that not only pushed him front and center into the world of hip hop, but helped further change the face of the genre forever. His local troop County, Georgia, buzz led him to super producer Timbaland during what could only be described as a run of a lifetime, pairing him with not only the hitmaker of the moment, but the legendary Dungeon family team Captain's organized noise as well. And that turned into his first major label release at Interscope Records, Dark Days, Bright Nights, an album that went all the way to number three on the Billboard 200. But it's his second album that's gonna get the flowers it deserves today on Teen Beat. 2003's Deliverance, a perfect mixture of rap and country, a gimmickless mashup that has been so poorly done ever since. Featured Justin Timberlake, Sleepy Brown and Ryan Tedder, produced solely by Timbaland and Organized Noise. And forced the Village Voice to say, if Eminem is hip hop's Elvis, then he is its Greg Allman. But label. But label politics, in a strange climate for white rappers at the time, forced it to underperform, when in reality it's a bonafide classic. I'm telling you, go listen to it now. I'll wait. He'd follow it up with 2006's the Charm, his first on Big Boy from Outkast's Purple Ribbon Records, an album that included yet another hit single, his biggest yet miss new booty featuring the Yin Yang Twins and Mr. Cola Park. But today we'll not only find out what he's up to now, but we are going to talk all about his past as an all region high school football player and get into how a kid raised half a mile away from his closest neighbor became an integral part of rap in the early aughts. Today on Teen Beat, it's a guest that I chose. He didn't choose me. But nonetheless, it's time to get ugly with bubba sparks.
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Hello, Ms. Danielle. And I think congratulations are in order for you. Just made another successful lap around the sun. I did. Thank you. Happy birthday.
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Thank you so much. It's. You know what? To make it to 45 is an honor. Aging is a privilege. I'm lucky to be here. I feel. I feel great. So thank you.
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A
Yeah, it is a privilege, but it's still painful at times.
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B
I know. I tell that to my knees. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. We are going to get into young Warren Mathis and how Bubba Sparks was born. But first I wanted to start with the Ugly music video. I feel like that was such a moment that took the world by storm and I wanted to hear about your experience with it. It was directed by Mark Classfield and it is so ahead of its time. Do you remember first getting the concept for it?
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A
Yeah, well, back in those days, it was a lot more of a production than videos are now because technology hadn't evolved as much. So basically like that whole crew of like 20 people came from LA to Athens, Georgia, where I was living at the time. Yeah, for like two weeks. You know, I had a big budget. I was on Interscope. You know, I had the Timberland cosign and. And so they, they had all, all financial cannons firing behind me at the time. And I didn't realize what a blessing and gift that was until much later. But yeah, I thought it was just what everybody gets, I guess.
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B
Right, right.
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But, yeah, and it was actually kind of a tug of war because I, I didn't want to go quite as. Look, real culture was captured in the video. But at times I felt it was a kind of a tug of war because I didn't want it to quite go as sticky and I didn't want it to seem like we were making fun of country folks.
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B
Right, right.
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You know what I'm saying? So I wanted to present it in a much cooler way, you know what I'm saying? Like, and, and it was just kind of that tug of war. But I Think it worked out in the end because I think if we had done it more the way that I wanted, with me kind of being too cool for school and trying to present like this, you know, just more serious.
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Yeah.
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You know, it really didn't fit the song and. And I don't think it would have been as successful. But when I first saw the video, I remember I had went into Jimmy I office when they had the. The first. We first got the. The rough edit back.
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Yeah.
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And Doug Morris, who was the head of like, the whole universal system at the time, was in there and. And he was watching. He was like, jimmy, what in the hell is this? And we were just all sitting there watching, like, wow. You know, it was just. Well, because it, it forced a response, you know what I'm saying? It was very, you know, you, you, you. You weren't just gonna watch that video and be like, oh, that's cool. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna love it or hate it, either way. It was gonna. It was gonna force a. A defined emotion about it. So, yeah, it was a cool deal and I was very grateful for that song. And once again, you know, I come into the industry with. With a record like that, you know, number one on TRL, number one on 106, and park number one in urban radio, and. And I. I probably. It caused me to take that for granted moving forward and not understand just how precious that really was, you know? Yeah.
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B
Well, right before it becomes a success, there you are. Your first song's about to come out on Interscope and you are racing tractors with Missy Elliott. When is the moment you knew this is gonna be big?
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Probably that day when I actually saw the video because I was so green to the, to the. To the whole experience, you know, I'd never shot a video before, and I remember being so nervous the morning, like, because, you know, back in those days, like, it was like a full, like maybe two and a half day shoot, like starting at like 6am and going to like 10, 11 at night. And. And I just remember just. It was also cluttered in my head. You know, I didn't really. I just. I knew we did some cool stuff, but I just couldn't imagine what it would look like. And I was so nervous about how I would look on camera. You know, it's kind of like the compounded version of, like, when you hate your voice when you hear it, you know, it's like you're definitely gonna hate the way you look. Okay. Especially me, you know, I was I was kind of heavier back then. And you know what they say, the camera adds about 50 pounds, and then
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you get to stand in a mud pit with wild pigs.
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Yeah, well, that, you know, I did grow up on a farm, and we did have pigs, so that, you know, once again, we embellished it a little bit. Running around, chasing. I mean, it was just. But that was really my crew and. And we had a good time doing it. And we had bizarre from D12.
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Yeah.
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And that. That. That actually helped the video a lot too, because. Because he. They were hot as firecrackers at the time. You know, Eminem, D12, obviously. And I know a lot of people were probably wondering how Eminem was going to embrace it. And. And. And having him in that video, you know, was. I think it. It that. I think he was our only celebrity. Well, we had Timberland, obviously, and Missy, but as far as, like, outside. Enrico Wade, God bless the dead from Organized Noise, was in the video, who was a mentor of mine and one of my heroes. And. And. But as far as, like, people not in our camp, you know, I think. And that was cool. He came down there and just did it, you know, and once again, I just thought everybody in the industry was that cool. You know, me and Bizarre. Super. We're super cool to this day.
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B
Oh, man, that's such a great story. How did life change for you once the video hit trl, man, it was crazy.
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I remember the first time I had like, a. Like a what the hell is going on? Moment. It was somewhere around that time because I. I was in New York for about six weeks around that time. They just had me based there because most of the media outlets are, you know, are in New York. And, yeah, we were doing all kind of stuff. And I remember Georgia was playing Tennessee and football. You know, I'm. I'm a huge University of Georgia football fan. And. And it was like. We went to our hotels right around Times Square, but we walked to the TGI Fridays in Times Square, and. And we're sitting there, like, at the bar or whatever, watching the game, going crazy, and we're just all in our. Like, me and the guy that was my assistant at the time, guy named Jeremiah, man. Shout out to Jeremiah. And. And we're sitting there just watching the game, and we're, like, in fan mode. We're not even thinking about Bubba Sparks or anything like that, you know, and we. We're walking back to the hotel, and, you know, there's always just bustling, you know, pedestrian traffic in Times Square and Somebody said, that's him. And I just remember hearing that, but it didn't register at the time. Right, you know, who's him? Yeah, exactly. I'm looking around like, who they talking about? And, and then somebody said, yeah, that's Bubba Sparks. And my boy was like, they're talking about you. And I was like. And people just started chasing after me. I didn't have security. I got security after that, but I didn't have security. I wasn't even, you know, it's such a surreal deal, you know, like, and, and, and, yeah, it was crazy. I, you know, and, and just that, because I really did come from where I presented myself as having come from, you know, I was really transplanted from a, you know, a dirt road to Times Square. So it was, and I, and I didn't handle it the best, you know, I, I don't, I don't know how many people would be able to handle such an abrupt transition, you know, with Grace. I, I, it wasn't a humility issue. I just didn't, there were just a lot of hard lessons that I had to learn about the music industry and life and just, and, and, and, and I was kind of learning on the fly, you know, but it was an incredible time. I wouldn't trade it for anything. And it almost, you know, it's 25 years ago, you know, I almost, it almost seems like another life sometimes, like another lifetime, you know, but, but it was really cool and I'm extremely blessed to have been able to, to travel that path.
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B
You were a star tight end and linebacker on the football team. When you were in high school, was it your dream to play for the NFL?
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A
I wanted to play college football at a big school. My, like my, my childhood best friend, he was a great football player. I was a good high school football player, you know, but he was a great, one of the, the top 100 most highly players in the, the country, you know, in high school. The year he came out, could have went anywhere. Ended up going to Georgia and, and you know, I guess I kind of always, you know, to, to kind of start touching on like the teen experience for me. I always kind of felt like maybe I was in his shadow a little bit. I was never jealous or envious. I always celebrated his success and I think that prepared me for my own success journey later, just learning how to, how to pom pom other people, you know what I'm saying? And, and, but, you know, I always, I was a good high school football player, but I, I, you know, when you kind of. That's. That's known as my best friend. And football, high school football is so serious down where I come from. It's Friday Night Lights.
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B
Yeah.
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Vibes and. And, yeah, football is probably still, to this day, my first love. Honestly, if I love music as much as I love football, we might be having a different conversation right now, you know, But I was just. I loved music, don't get me wrong. But I was just really good at it. It just came natural to me, and I always kind of wished that football. He came that natural to me, but, you know, that just wasn't in the cards, and it was what it was, and the journey is. Is. Is. Is. Is the journey. So.
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B
Yeah.
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But, yeah, I love football. I really do. Like, it's a cultural. Like, it's so ingrained in the culture, like, growing up where I grew up, and, man, I love it. I still keep up with my. My high school football team, like, shoot, even baseball, like, they're. They're in the state baseball playoffs right now. And I was. I caught myself, like, it was the Braves playing or something, checking the score, you know, the other day.
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Yeah.
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You know, but that's just kind of how we grew up.
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B
You know, how rural is Troup County? I know it's near lagrange, but I'm trying to figure out how much you're even hearing rap music as a kid.
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A
Well, lagrange itself, especially at this point, less so when I was growing up, is a town of about 50,000 people. There's only like 60 miles from Atlanta.
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B
Okay.
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So the actual town. But see, you have to remember, I grew up in the suburbs of lagrange is all I could say. So I grew up about 20 minutes north of Lagrange out in the country.
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B
Okay.
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And honestly, the town itself is. It's kind of suffered from some of the. The same ills that. That, that America, you know, particularly kind of impoverished areas. There's a lot of. There's violence there now, gun violence. Not just like, you know, meth addicts shooting their, you know, their brothers or something like that, but like street gang violence, you know, and. Because where I grew up was basically 50 black, 50 white, and really nobody much had anything except for like, that small percentage of the people that owned everything, you know, type deal. Yeah, but. And I think that's probably a lot. Why we took so much pride in football, too, because it was one of the. The things that, you know, allowed us to escape that. That. That perception of that existence. So.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
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B
We invented a podcast.
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A
Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special. So how did we. How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.
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B
I think it was on a call
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A
about what we should call it and well, we were thinking. I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast. People could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band
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B
with their between songs banter.
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A
Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:36]
B
The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection this ment Health Awareness Month. Tune into the podcast Deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well being and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected, we're becoming more individualized. But we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Diana Maria Riva actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal, crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin hair you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? With the Ana Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic bs. All of a sudden, I had hanging ness happening on my. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was gonna be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what? Sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy.
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A
That one's kind of hard. No.
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B
Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say
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A
this out loud in public.
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B
Listen to How Hard Can It Be With Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your dad was a school bus driver. He was.
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A
Everybody knows Jimmy Mathis. That's. People come up to me all the time. I rode your daddy school bus.
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B
Oh, that must be so special to, like, meet people who knew your dad.
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A
Well, what's special is because, you know, we've. We. We've always had a, you know, traditional southern men type relationship. You know, didn't talk much about feelings or. And. And when I talk to people, they say, he would play your songs. He had so much. He was so proud of you. And I hear that stuff, and that. That makes me feel good because, you know, he's never really voiced that to me. You know, I mean, he said he's proud of me, but I'm saying, like, as far as he would never reveal to me that he was ever that excited about anything I did, because he didn't. He didn't agree. And with good reason. He didn't agree with. With me pursuing a career in music. You know what I'm saying? Because, I mean, come on, I grew up where I grew up when I grew up there. And me being a white boy from the country, that was. That was telling people he was Gonna make it as a rapper. They would have sooner believed, believe me, if I had told him I was going to be an astronaut and be the first human to walk on Pluto, you know what I'm saying? It would have been more believable.
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B
Right.
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A
And so. So, yeah, he kind of felt like it was a. A fool's errand to some degree, and that I should. You know, he. He really wanted me because I. I would. I would have been the first person in my college, in my family at the time, to get a college degree, so he really wanted me to get that. I guess that generation kind of just thought that. That a college degree, like, earned you. You know, that was like a. A ticket to, like, the club or something, and you were gonna be straight for life or something, you know, and we know now that's not the case.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And plus, I. I didn't know. I didn't have a plan, you know, so it. When you try to go to. I went to some junior colleges and stuff, and when you. When you try to, like, you know, do the college thing, but you really don't have a vision for it. Like, I was kind of just going in circles, and then. And then, you know, the music thing happened and kind of bailed me out.
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B
Your mom was also a grocery store cashier. Were either of them musical? How did you decide to start rapping?
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A
All right, so I did come from a. I have my. My mother and father each had a boy and a girl from a previous marriage.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then they got together, and I was the only child they had together. But the. The. My mother's son and daughter that she brought to the situation lived with me and my other brother. They lived with their mom in Atlanta, so. And I saw them pretty regularly. But. So I had one brother who was. Iron Maiden is his favorite band of all time. He loved, like, eight, like, heavy metal and I mean, like, passionately now.
- [24:42]
B
Right.
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A
And shout out to my brother Russ, and. But it never spoke to me. Like, I would try to get with. I step and watch Headbangers ball with him on Saturday nights on mtv, you know, and I would try to. Because even my older brother and I. I wanted his. His approval, and I wanted his validation. And so, you know, I would. I would try to get with it, but it just never really spoke to me. Then my other brother that lived in Atlanta, that was my dad's son, he was into, like, Parliament Funk, like, just as. Just as intensely, you know, George Clinton cameo.
- [25:18]
B
Yeah.
- [25:19]
A
And my father loved traditional country. Like, George Jones is his favorite Singer ever. Conway Twitty, you know, Waylon Jennings, people like that. And. And I have great memories of. Of certain songs now when I look back, you know, in retrospect, at growing up and me and my dad in the hay field, you know, or going for a ride on Sunday, and I'll hear songs that we used to listen to, and it sparks nostalgia now. But at the time, it was just like, turn this off. Yes, yes. But to be honest. And my mother and my sister were kind of just pop music fans. But my mother loves to dance. Like, she loves to dance, so maybe that's where I got, you know, some of the rhythm from. But music never mattered to me until I heard NWA, you know, end of that. That era, 2 Live Crew. It just spoke to me in a whole different way. But when Outkast came out, you know, they were really. They were no really to it. They were the first group Dump the Dungeon Family. That was the first. First movement that really just encapsulated Atlanta and even, in a greater sense, Georgia. And I was like, wow, that's how you represent Georgia from their perspective. How do I need to represent Georgia from. From my perspective? You know? And so I started on the journey to tinkering and just trying to figure it out.
- [26:51]
B
You know, I love that in your family, you had three boys and three. Those three boys all had very dist. Musical sounds that they loved so much, that they were all so passionate about. You know, that's really special. And then your dad, I guess technically four. Four men in the family and your dad and. And each of you had your own love and.
- [27:11]
A
But. But no one else is like, my brother's music. The. The guy that looked the one that loved heavy metal, he repulsed the. The greater home community. But when I started playing somebody say, hey, it kind of went to new heights, you know, people being like, turn that off.
- [27:34]
B
How did you come upon the name Bubba Sparks and did it always have three X's?
- [27:42]
A
Yeah, well, all right. So me and a guy from the. So Bubba was kind of something that people just called me. It's kind of like in the south, it's like dude or like, you know, you know, it's just. It's just a general term, you know, And. And. And I felt like that name kind of. It just kind of encompassed everything that I was trying to. Trying to represent. Because, you know, people. Some people have tried to imply that there's like a negative racial connotation to it. I know more black bubbles than I do white bubbles. You know what I'm saying, like, so I felt like it was a balanced representation and so. And then we couldn't. I knew. I remember thinking, like, names endure. Like, full names endure. I think more than if I just came up with a name like Soda. Soda Pop or something, you know, like. You know what I mean? Like.
- [28:40]
B
Yep.
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A
I mean, not to say that there are plenty of iconic people. Ice Cube. Too short. But.
- [28:44]
B
Yep.
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A
I was like, I. You know, already feeling like maybe people were not going to take it as serious. I wanted to just. I don't know. I just always envisioned it being like an actual first and last name.
- [28:55]
B
Yep.
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A
And. And me and Shannon Houcher is the guy that was. That had 11th hour, which was the initial production company I was signed to when we signed with Interscope, he and I are trying to figure out and remember the old Rodney Dangerfield movie. Wally Sparks.
- [29:14]
B
Yes.
- [29:16]
A
So his kids had a bunch of DVDs. This is back during, like, the DVD DVR era. And so he's just going through DVD and he says, what about Bubba Sparks? And it came from Wally Sparks, the Rodney Daniel movie. And then I was like, yeah, but what's better with three X's? I wasn't thinking about the triple X, you know, pornography angle of it. I was thinking more about three X's Represents, like, fire. That's like the. Like the best of the best. Moonshine.
- [29:48]
B
Okay. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like three skull and crossbones.
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A
Correct.
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B
So when does Jimmy Iovine hear your music and then does he fly you out to LA to sign you? What was that?
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A
Yeah, my first ever plane ride. I couldn't sleep the night. I didn't sleep a wink the whole night before. I was so nervous. Not about going to meet with Jimmy I Bean, but about getting on an airplane. Yeah. And that's what the intro to my first album is partially about. You know, just. It's called takeoff. And it's like, just talking about those nervous feelings, but also, like, as being a metaphor for, like, having those same feelings about taking off in this. In that industry. But. Yeah, so Gerardo Mejia, Rico Suave.
- [30:52]
B
Yes.
- [30:55]
A
Was the first ever artist released on Interscope Records with Rico. Yeah. Yes. And. And he. He went double platinum. And that kind of got him in the door, you know what I'm saying? That guy got them a foothold in the industry where they could continue. And so Jimmy was always very. He took care of Gerardo and was always, you know, always paid that well up until a certain point. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. But so he was specialized more in Latin music, like Enrique Iglesias. He signed Enrique Iglesias to Interscope. A couple other things. And so he had gotten my project and he was a champion of it. He loved it. But he. The only thing is, is when he's trying to take it to him, you know, to the. To the higher ups, like, not necessarily Jimmy, but more. Steve Stout was kind of the hip hop gatekeeper, the head of black music at that time. And, And. And he just didn't. Nobody was really checking for, oh, you know, another white rapper quite that soon after Emine. You know, Gerardo was just more known for Latin music. So they're like, why are you trying to bring hip hop back? And. But eventually he went straight to Jimmy with it, and Jimmy got it pretty much instantly, you know, and when I signed with and they flew us out and. And made an offer, and it. It was. It turned out because, you know, it's kind of like once the industry learns the Interscope offered this white rapper a deal, and then you're back in those days, your lawyer would shop all these deals, then the word starts getting out and everybody wants to want you. You know, I remember we went to DreamWorks back when DreamWorks was. Was. Was. I don't only think that's. They're. They're actually active as a record label anymore. But. And, and we went over there and they made a lot of sweet promises and offered a lot more money. And I was like, I want to sit down here. You know, I'm telling the guys I'm with, you know, and. But they're like, no, we're gonna go to New York. We're gonna meet with all these other people. And so we met with Def Jam and Loud and Sony. I mean, we met with everybody and everybody was in. And Interscope had the lowest offer, and everybody hated on Interscope because they were like, they're just gonna. They're just trying to shelf you because, you know, to make sure you're never a threat to Eminem. And I'm like, that just doesn't make sense to me. I was encouraged because that showed me that the success they had with Eminem showed me that they knew how to do it and they weren't scared, you know, And. And so. And plus, I felt. I felt indebted too, because Jimmy was the first person. And Jimmy believed in me far, far, far greater than he was ever rewarded. You know, I. I used to. I didn't. I didn't understand why he believed in me the way he did, but he really did. It up. And I'm forever indebted to that, man. Even though things didn't necessarily work out on the level that we all had hoped for, man, that guy believed in me and he gave me every opportunity. And I, I probably didn't earn a lot of those opportunities, especially like, you know, I, I was struggling with addiction at that time and, you know, I just probably didn't fulfill my end of the bargain in a lot of ways. But, man, that guy loved me and believed in me for sure. And he connected me with Timberland.
- [34:31]
B
And what was that like? Did you two get along immediately?
- [34:34]
A
See, Jimmy, Jimmy knew he was onto something with the Eminem and Drake thing, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, you take the. Because people have a whole different view on what a white rapper means at this point in time. If you remember that climate back there, you know, I know, you know, somebody who was a, was a rapper, a white rapper on Interscope.
- [34:55]
B
I do, I do.
- [34:57]
A
And, and so, you know, it was, it was just a whole different environment. People. After, kind of after the Vanilla Ice thing, there was like a 10 year period where nobody was checking for white rappers.
- [35:11]
B
Right.
- [35:11]
A
You know, and so then Eminem comes and it's like what anybody, as a white rapper, you kind of look at it like, well, there's only gonna ever be one more. You know, he just did it and they did it perfect.
- [35:23]
B
Exactly. I can't top that.
- [35:26]
A
But Jimmy knew he was onto something. We'll find the credible black producer and have him stamp the white white rapper. Make sure they can see my pretty face. And at times. And so, yeah, he, and he tried to put me with Swiss beats first. Oh, you know, he, he was kind of shopping the white boy, you know, and Swiss was super cool. We made some, some decent music, but we just didn't really have that chemistry. I don't think he quite understood culturally what I was going for and being from New York and he, he appreciated the fact that I was a true MC and that, that the hip hop side, but I don't think he understood the country cultural side of it. You know what I mean? And then, you know, I was always very close with Organized Noise, with Rico Wade, Sleepy Brown and Ray Murray. You know, they, they're, they're the, were the producers of Outcast and they were home team, but they were kind of going through a transition and I worked with them and they, they produced songs on every one of my albums. But yeah, I, I probably would have loved for them to have been the Stampers, you know, what I'm saying, but. But they were just transitioning in. In different ways at that time, and it really wasn't feasible. And then he said, what about Timberland? He said, I'm meeting with him tonight. I said, jimmy, that would be perfect. That would be perfect. Like, sold. You know what I mean?
- [36:55]
B
Yes.
- [36:56]
A
And. And then, you know, he. He called me about two or three hours later, and he was like, you need to get out here first thing in the morning. Tim was like, you ain't no white. Right here in the background. You ain't no white boy. And I was like, what is he talking about? He's like, he doesn't believe you're white. He's gotta see you. And I was like, all right, I'm on the way. And the rest was history. When I got out there, he was like, that's crazy. That's crazy that you make the sounds out of your mouth, but you look the way you look. That's crazy.
- [37:27]
B
So you guys just hit it off right off the bat?
- [37:31]
A
Yeah, we did. Especially musically. You know, Timberland is just. And then once again, you know, that. That's another guy that believed in me, you know, when. Before. I really couldn't see it. You know, it's like I. I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict, and part of, like, what the disease of addiction is all about is, like, as addicts, we kind of carry around this emptiness inside of not feeling like we're worthy or, you know, feeling like we just don't fit in or if people knew the real us, they wouldn't like us. And I think me being a white rapper, even though I double time to try to always make sure that I was portraying authentically who I was and. And where I was from, what that was all about, because I felt that to be in line with the core principles of hip hop, you know, I think that it kind of just fed into the imposter syndrome. And I just. It was like, not like, as far as, like, my talent or what I'm doing, but if. If these people knew the real me, they would know I'm a fraud. Wrongs. Like, like, as a human. Not as, like, yeah, you know, my talent or, like, what I'm representing or anything like that, but I just, you know, I kind of always carried those. Those feelings around. And unfortunately, drugs and alcohol became a solution that kind of quieted that beast for a long time until it. Until it turned on me in a major way. And. And, yeah, but. But Tim is. He was great, man. You know? He was. And once again, I probably let him down a lot of ways also, but. But we did some great things and. And man, I'll be eternally grateful. Nobody could have ever taught me more. There's not a studio session that I have today where at some point I don't reference something that, that Timberland told me or taught me, you know, and the same could be said for Rico Wade also and Mr. Colin park, who produced Miss New Booty later on. Yeah, I was just blessed to, you know, Polo the don. There's people that I worked with that just are real giants in this thing, like the real deal. Like, there's a lot of people get propped up by publicity and, you know, but I was blessed to really be around some guys that was a genuine article when it comes to really being talented and really being committed to their craft.
- [39:47]
B
I love that you are now so open about your struggles with addiction, and I want to talk about how you're giving back now. But when you did drug use or alcohol become a problem for you, at what stage of your career did that start to happen?
- [40:01]
A
You know, and we're talking about the teen years. What's funny about that is I play football and me and my best friend, who's also a recovering addict, the guy I've been talking about, that played for Georgia and he played in the NFL for seven years. And, and we, we looked down on people that did drugs, you know, like in high school, and drank and partied on weekends because we were so serious about football. But I remember spring break, my junior year of high school. We went to Panama City Beach, Florida, the Redneck Riviera, and. Which is like four hours from where I grew up. And that was like our, what do you call it, our rite of passage, you know, like, and we get down there and we're like, we might as well drink. Everybody's drinking. We might as well drink. And we each funneled 12 Zimas. Oh, and oh my gosh, I spent five or six hours, you know, like in the bathroom, praying to the porcelain God sleep, you know, passed out in my own vomit. Yeah, that happened. But I remember a 30 minute window, maybe an hour, where it was like all those feelings subsided. You know what I mean? Like, I felt peace, I felt connected. I felt like, wow, I get it. We were the lanes. We should have been doing this the whole time, you know, and it just kind of gradually went from there to the point where, you know, even. Even into my 40s, you know, I've had a, A back and forth journey with recovery. Yeah, but, yeah, it ended up, you know, it's, it's crazy. I look back at like the, the kid I was, you know, and it's like I kind of robbed him a lot of ways. But, but also I don't know if I would have been able without alcohol and, and drugs to, to some degree, even though drugs bring about just maximum unmanageability in your life. Like it's, you know, there are no social crack smokers, there are no social meth users or heroin addicts, you know, there are social drinkers, you know, and you know, I, I'm not sure that without alcohol specifically I would have been able to overcome the self centered fear I was talking about and done all the things that I, that I was able to do, you know, with my, with my career. But it's a double edged sword because later in life I also, everything that, that, that I earned or was, you know, given to me, I ended up giving it back to drugs and alcohol too. So, you know, it is what it is. But, but you know, I'm just grateful to have, have peace in my life today because that's really all I've ever been looking for.
- [42:43]
B
Yeah. How do you think you juggled fame while also battling addiction?
- [42:51]
A
Well, my addiction most of like the last 15 years, I'd say even though I've been sober a year and a half this time.
- [43:00]
B
Congratulations.
- [43:01]
A
But thank you so much. That's a big deal for me.
- [43:04]
B
Yes.
- [43:05]
A
And, and, and it is, it is by God's grace, I can assure you that. But my addiction had isolated me to such a degree more. What I went through with, with my addiction was just being isolated from family and friends. I went two years without talking to anybody in my family. My best friend I've been talking about this whole time I went, I talked to him like four times in 10 years. And you know, that's just, that's what it does, you know, as the, the progressive nature of the disease, you know, just further, further isolates you, you know. And, and, and so I spent a lot of time, A lot of people could speculate about what I was doing because they didn't see me. Or I might not look the best when you did see me, but I got off the grid, you know what I'm saying, to do my thing. So it's not like I was one of those artists that was just out here driving around and just, you know, and, and, and doing. I did have some public, I had a public arrest in Florida that was pretty embarrassing at a Hooters coincidentally. And you know, that that was probably the most public thing that ever happened to me in my addiction. But. But yeah, like I said, I was just. I like to get the hell out of the way, you know, when I, when I was doing my thing. And. Yeah, so that probably cut down on a lot of the, you know, the, the fame colliding with, with the struggles I was having. And most of my worst struggles, to be honest, were past the period of my mainstream notoriety, you know, so to speak. And, you know, because like during the ugly times, like, you know, my first two albums, I was. There were some repercussions and consequences of, of my drinking and using some, you know, career wise. But for the most part it was still just the party stage. Okay. You know, I'm experiencing all these great things. I'm having a great time. Then when it got to the new booty time, I had developed an opiate addiction and, and the, the isolation period had commenced and, you know, a lot of great things, you know, performing on the Jay Leno show, you know, that was such a big record too, the new booty thing. And you know, just. I had all my. I had kind of cut my crew down to like my real friends at that time and they're out there having a blast. You know, we're hanging out with the entourage.
- [45:39]
B
Right.
- [45:40]
A
You know, in LA and just, you know, but I'm. I'm being a weirdo. My hotel room because I'm so tweaked or whatever, you know.
- [45:47]
B
Right, right.
- [45:48]
A
And because I went to treatment for the first time shortly after that, you know, the new booty time. And so like 08 and. And it was from. From there I just kind of slowly started like fading from the, the mainstream conscious and, and it, it directly coincided with, with the progression of my, of my addiction, you know, so it was, it was. The reason I was fading was because of my addiction and because of drugs and alcohol in large measurements. But it also the fact that I was fading made me less of a topic than anybody wanted to focus on. So I kind of just, you know, the more the significant the fade was, the more pieces I could just have and go do my thing, you know. So, yeah, yeah,
- [46:54]
B
I want to talk about Deliverance, because I will hoot and holler about this album to anyone willing to listen. What was your mindset going into your second album? Were you nervous at all about a sophomore slump type of situation?
- [47:10]
A
Let me tell you something. Had it been up to me, Deliverance would have never existed because, well, you got to think now ugly comes out. It's a huge club, urban record. I wanted to. My second album, because you gotta think that I had we ready with Archie. I had. I had the Jadakiss record. So I'm kind of, like, on more of a trajectory to do something that. That maybe Eminem hadn't even done. I was very clear on the. The pecking order at that point, but I was like. Eminem never really, like. Like, had club hits and was doing his thing, you know, like. Like, in the hood, you know, People were actually, you know, riding around, bumping my. In the hood, you know, at that time.
- [47:58]
B
Yeah.
- [47:58]
A
And. And being from Atlanta, that meant a lot. I was very accepted. And, you know, I grew up outside of Atlanta, but the Atlanta community had accepted me and embraced me. You know, that meant a lot. And so I wanted to continue on that path. And still to this day, looking back on it, I think we probably would have been more commercially successful with the second album had we. Had we gone that direction. I was thinking, this is when Lil John's going crazy. I'm thinking, I'll get Timberland, produce half the album, get a few from organizing the ones, getting Little John to produce two or three, and go and get features from T.I. and I'll, you know, and go more in that direction, which short term would have been the better route to take, I do believe. Yeah, but one record changed it all that Timberland basically just made goofing around. It's called Coming Around. It's a sample of the young seeing you coming. Right. It's a sample of the younger Mountain String Band. And. And we did that record in Jimmy Math, I think, was the other one where we kind of first stumbled into that sound. And Tim, being the mad genius that he is and just really enjoying, he was just, like, geeking out on it, on the trick of making this country be jamming, you know what I'm saying? And. And once he realized after we did Coming around that I could. That I could paint the perfect pictures over those tracks, and then it was like, man, this could be really big, dude. Like, you know, this could be like. Like, this is our shot to sell 10 million.
- [49:37]
B
Yes.
- [49:38]
A
You know, but. And so we went with it. You know, we went with it and abandoned the hood. That's why, if you'll notice, that that album was commercially unsuccessful. We got fired from Interscope for a variety of reasons. Then I go over here, do this big deal with Big Boy and Virgin. You know how I came back the next time? Like, I was like, I'm not making that mistake again. Yep, you know, like, mama's got a house. You know, like, we gotta go.
- [50:05]
B
And that is when you release Ms. New Booty, technically your biggest song. And, man, it still gets played so much now for all new generations to enjoy. You had been through so much at this point and you are still writing and putting out another smash. Did that record always just feel big?
- [50:31]
A
I knew the night we recorded it what it was, and I'm grateful eternally because it was a survival mechanism, trust me. Like, I. I had put out two singles that. A Timberland record and an organized noise record with Petey Pablo and Sleepy Brown on it, as seen, like, as kind of like tester singles prior to putting out Miss New Booty. And they didn't. You know, back then it was so. People take for granted the fact that now it's so easy to access such a. Such a vast array of fans and to access your audience directly. Back then, if you weren't on the radio, like, literally, there were four ways people received and consumed music. Live shows, CDs, the radio, and. All right, maybe there's three. I don't know.
- [51:25]
B
Okay.
- [51:26]
A
All right, so there's one more, though. But anyway, and OMTB and bet. Yep, that was the fourth one. And so if you couldn't make, you had to make music this. And you think at any given time, what are there 40 songs that are, like, viable.
- [51:43]
B
Right, Right.
- [51:45]
A
So if you didn't have one of those songs, then chances are you weren't going to be played on. On MTV or bet.
- [51:52]
B
Right.
- [51:52]
A
And so you had to make it fit. And that's where we lost with Deliverance. Deliverance is a test. Deliverance, the single. The single success is a testament to how great the record was and how powerful Interscope was, you know what I'm saying? Like, the fact that they made that record go top 10 at a time when the whole world is crunk, Deliverance is coming on in between Get Low by Lil John and the Yin Yang Twins and, you know, and. And 50 Cent, you know.
- [52:22]
B
Yep. Yeah.
- [52:23]
A
And so, you know, and it stuck out like a sore thumb. So the fact that it even performed as well as it did commercially is just mind blowing at that time. It could have been very boutique and very, like, underground, you know, like. But then. So when it was time to go back in, and like I said, I had two, I was too. They gave me like a million dollars at. At Virgin and Big Boy. A million dollars. And then we still had like a million dollars to make the album with. Wow. But we were two strikes down. Because back then, you know, you would put out a single. Now you just throw out a song every, every Friday or whatever. But back then it required a little more. So we put out these two songs and we're two strikes. We're in a two strike hole.
- [53:08]
B
Yeah.
- [53:09]
A
And it's like, this is like my last shot in the industry, you know what I'm saying? Like, there was no. Go be independent and put, put out your own music. Then it was like back to the factory in Troop county, you know, and, and so, so Eddie Weathers, Skeeter Rock, who, Jermaine Dupree had taken over black music at Virgin at this time. So they kind of came up with the idea for me to go in with Mr. Khalid park, with DJ Smurf, you know, who, who produced all the Yin Yang Twin stuff. And man, I am eternally grateful to that man and to the twins because he and I come up with this song the first night we go in the studio with this idea and he's like, we gotta get the twins on this. And they were hot as like, yeah, the middle of the sun at that time, you know what I'm saying? And I was like, if they'll do it, man. You think we could? You think we could? Yeah. And, and, and when I kind of felt like it was a hit like just the night we did it and we had the basic idea down, but then when the twins got on it like so. Oh man. But also I didn't, you know, when you do things for. To survive out of survival, it's a little bit of a double edged sword because I didn't know that my. Obviously I couldn't have predicted at that time that my life was going to completely come unglued in the period following that song and that that was going to end up even above ugly and Deliverance, like in a pop culture sense, that was going to be the song that I was kind of defined by, which is a little tragic to me, you know, because the story is, is so much more, you know, and that. And I feel like if I had been able in a place where I could have just come back and followed up with another record, you know, that it would just be a chapter rather than like kind of looked at to some people. And you know, I'll tell you the funny thing about New Booty is initially when we did the song, it was, it was based on the movie Players Club and New booty was like Ms. New Booty was like the new girl working at the strip club. And that was. That was what the song was originally created from, from the spirit of that. But then what happens over the. The 2000 teens and into the 2000s, actual new booties, BBL. It starts to become a thing. So that gave it, like another lot life, you know, so it's crazy. I mean, the song is just as culturally relevant today as it was 20 years ago. And it's. It's. It's amazing.
- [55:43]
B
You know, when you hear Jelly Roll or Shaboozi or Post Malone now, is it crazy to see how connected country and rap has become? And do you still see yourself as ahead of your time as I do?
- [55:58]
A
Well, I don't think any. I mean, Jelly Roll has a history as a rapper, but I don't. I don't really, you know, a list of top country rappers that had Jelly Roll number one and had Shaboozi number two, and I was like, like, jelly's a hell of a rapper. Like, he has a history as a rapper, but what has made him successful is not rapping. He does not. There's no hip hop involved in it at all.
- [56:22]
B
Yeah.
- [56:24]
A
And. And much respect to Posty and Shabuzi. I don't know if he used to be a rapper or whatever, but I do country hip hop, and there's not still to this day. There's not a lot of other people doing that. And what it really should be called is hip hop. Country because the hip hop comes first.
- [56:41]
B
First. Yeah.
- [56:42]
A
And. And, you know, you talk about, like, Big Crit, you know, Bun Beat Up, Yellow Wolf, Ritz. I mean, well, Struggle Jennings. Those are some people that do something similar to what I do. You know, people that represent some country culture, but also are, like, truly care about the craft of MCN and. And the founding principles of hip hop and where hip hop comes from. Yeah, yeah. And Post the. I love Post Malone. I just don't like his country music, but I respect his right to do it.
- [57:17]
B
Yeah.
- [57:18]
A
You know, do what you want to do. You know, I don't. I'm not. I'm not judging that. But also, what. As a consumer and as a fan, I can say. Or. You know what I'm saying?
- [57:27]
B
Yes. Not for me.
- [57:28]
A
Congratulations. This is what I like. Yeah.
- [57:31]
B
Well, you are still performing and releasing new music all the time. What is the biggest difference in the way you approach your art now?
- [57:41]
A
Well, now I'm trying to. As I've gotten sober, you know, and. And I've got music industry trauma, you know, that spills over into, like, just my broader view of music in general. So I was slow to kick start my creativity again when I got sober. It's getting a lot better. I kind of just decided that I was just going to focus on sobriety and, and trust that process, you know, the 12 step process and all that, and, and kind of leave the other stuff up to the universe or God or however you want to look at that. And it's, it's worked well for me. You know, I do, I'm grateful and blessed to be able to still do, you know, a good number of shows and make a pretty good living doing that. And that's kind of just like living off the old stuff, you know what I mean? Which is cool because there's really no pressure in that. It's kind of like I just go watch a movie, you know, when I go do it. Because I work in a treatment center. I work at a treatment center here in, in Utah where I live. And yeah, I'm very active in, in service out here and trying to, you know, carry a message of hope to, to addicts and alcoholics who are still suffering. And that means a lot to me and that's probably my first mission in life right now. And. Because it was about me for a long time. Time.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah.
- [59:12]
A
You know, and it, and it being about me kind of just didn't turn out too well for me. And it works better when I seem to like, think about others and think about what I can do to pack into the stream of life and maybe help somebody else. It's weird how it works because that kind of ends up helping me and, and yeah, but, but I still am. You know, when I, when I go to create now, I don't like even up to like 40 something years old. Like I woke up every day thinking about creating music, you know, and it was easier to do that in addiction. It's like when I'm, when I'm in active addiction, my whole life is burning down around me.
- [59:56]
B
Right.
- [59:57]
A
And people are so worried about me, but I'm at peace because, because I'm inspired creatively, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but then the flip side of that is, but, but the whole, you know, unfortunately we need the rest. The other parts of our life, you know.
- [60:13]
B
Right.
- [60:13]
A
Your health and your money and, you know, we need those things. And, but then I get sober and every other area of my life is blossoming, my spirit is blossoming, but I'm, I'm not inspired creatively, you know what I'm saying? So it's just kind of, and so I've just Been striving to try to find that balance, you know, so. So when I. I don't really wake up every day and plus I just aged out of it to some degree. Even though I am a lifelong music man, like, it's in me, not on me. But I enjoy taking trips to, to Louisville where my, where my manager and. And a person I create music with. Dusty Lee lives. And he has a studio at his house. I enjoy going there once every three or four months and locking in for a few days and working on music and trying to, you know, get re. Inspired with it. It. That's fun. It's like going on vacation or something, you know, Whereas that's really not the core of my life at this point, you know.
- [61:13]
B
How long. What's the longest period of time you've ever been sober?
- [61:16]
A
Right now. Well, no, I was actually sober for 17 years. Okay. Yeah. And then I turned 17.
- [61:27]
B
Right. Okay. Those first 17 years.
- [61:29]
A
I get it.
- [61:30]
B
You know, I do. I want to tell you because I, as someone who hasn't had a sip of alcohol in eight years, it took me a long time, probably four years, four to five years of not drinking anything before I felt like I knew who I was in social situations and fun situations without having that crush crutch. And it was like every time there was a wedding to go to and I would think people go to weddings sober or whatever the event was. And. And it just. Yes, it took some time. So what I'm thinking as I'm hearing you talk is I think you will find that creative inspiration and that creative spark when you have. It's just going to take longer than you'd expect. Yeah, it's just not going to be there.
- [62:30]
A
And I'm at peace with it and I'm in the process with it. And it is what it is. I'm kind of surrendered to. I'm not in the results business, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't control results and outcomes and that, that's a tough pill for somebody as much of a freak for the illusion of control as I've been in my life. But we really don't control the, the results. All we can do is focus on the process, you know, and chances are, if I care enough about the process, each stop step of the way, I'm gonna have something at the valuable at the end of it because I cared about it so much all the way through the process that it just may not. The value may not be what I envisioned it was going to be, you know, but There will be value, you know, and just being cool with that, you know, like, you know, I, I, obviously we, as people, we don't, we really don't even know what we want, you know, so. And we damn sure don't know what we need. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, I'm just gonna try to take care of the small stuff day by day and, and, you know, try to live a good life. And, and, and I just believe that something good is going to come from it, you know, and, and if I, if I never find, I, I know the creative spark will return. I'm almost welcoming it. Being in some other area. Yeah, you know, I, you know, I always want to be. I owe so much to hip hop music and culture. I will forever be tapped in and connected to it. But it's been a long, long road, you know, and I'm completely open to being redirected towards something in another as far as, like, what my main source of creative inspiration is. Yeah.
- [64:20]
B
Ooh, I wonder what it's going to be. I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm excited. I'm excited to watch your journey unfold.
- [64:26]
A
Thank you, Daniel.
- [64:28]
B
I'm not letting Bubba Sparks just walk off like that. I've got more to ask and a listener's embarrassing story to play. So check out a bonus episode this Friday on the dedicated Teen Beat feed. Because he is sticking around, all you have to do is search for Teen Beat wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe. That way you never miss another episode. And don't forget to check out teenbeatpod.com for a wide array of Teen Beat merch. Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sudbaksh. The theme song is by Mark Hoppus. Yes, that Mark Hoppus. Follow us on Instagram teenbeatpop. God.
- [65:15]
A
This is an I heart podcast.
- [65:17]
B
Guaranteed human.