#310 - The Recent Asteroid Impact NOBODY is Talking About | Chris Cottrell

Summary

Podcast Summary: Danny Jones Podcast – Episode #310: "The Recent Asteroid Impact NOBODY is Talking About" featuring Chris Cottrell

Release Date: June 19, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #310 of the Danny Jones Podcast, host Danny Jones engages in a deep and enlightening conversation with Chris Cottrell, a seasoned science educator with over two decades of experience teaching environmental science and earth systems in coastal Georgia. The episode delves into the intriguing and controversial topic of the Carolina Bays, exploring various hypotheses surrounding their formation, including the possibility of a recent asteroid impact—a subject that, according to the episode's title, hasn't garnered widespread attention.

Carolina Bays: An Overview

What Are Carolina Bays?

Carolina Bays are elliptical depressions scattered across the eastern coastal plain of the United States, stretching from just below New York down through the Carolinas, Georgia, and into parts of Alabama and Nebraska. These formations are remarkably consistent in shape, often mathematically approximating perfect ellipses with orientations pointing toward the Great Lakes of Michigan.

Conventional Explanations vs. Alternative Theories

Traditionally, the scientific community has leaned towards uniformitarianism to explain the formation of Carolina Bays, suggesting natural, terrestrial processes like wind and water erosion shaped these features over thousands of years. Various hypotheses have been proposed since the 1930s, including:

• Meteor Impact Hypothesis: Initially suggested in the 1930s but fell out of favor due to a lack of direct evidence.
• Beaver Dam Theory: Proposed that these depressions were ancient beaver ponds.
• Biogenic Closures: Suggested that large aquatic animals like fish or whales created nest-like formations.

Chris Cottrell’s Perspective

Chris challenges the prevailing uniformitarian explanations, advocating for a catastrophic event origin. He posits that Carolina Bays are remnants of a significant asteroid or comet impact that occurred during the mid-Pleistocene transition, approximately 786,000 years ago. This event, according to Chris, ejected massive ice fragments from the Laurentide Ice Sheet in Michigan, which then re-entered the atmosphere and impacted the coastal plains, forming the characteristic elliptical depressions.

Chris Cottrell [03:48]: "I do think that they formed very quickly, catastrophically."

Role of Modern Technology: LiDAR in Geology

Utilizing LiDAR for Mapping

Chris highlights the transformative role of Light Detection and Ranging (LiDAR) technology in studying geological formations. LiDAR allows for precise topographical mapping, revealing subtle landforms that are not easily discernible through traditional aerial photography or ground surveys.

Findings from LiDAR Surveys

Recent LiDAR surveys conducted by Michael Davies, a computer scientist turned geologist, have mapped over 70,000 Carolina Bays, now termed "Ovoid Basins" to reflect their broader geographical distribution. These surveys have provided compelling evidence supporting the elliptical symmetry and uniform orientation of the bays, strengthening the argument against purely terrestrial formation processes.

Chris Cottrell [16:37]: "With lidar and all these things added together, we see how many of these elliptical depressions complete their coverage."

Challenging the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis

Younger Dryas Event Background

The Younger Dryas, occurring around 12,800 years ago, was a significant and abrupt climatic cooling event. Some researchers, including Antonio Zamora, have linked this period to a series of bolide airbursts (explosions of meteors in the atmosphere) that could have contributed to the formation of Carolina Bays.

Chris's Argument Against This Link

Chris contends that the Carolina Bays' formation predates the Younger Dryas, aligning more closely with the mid-Pleistocene transition. He presents geological evidence indicating that Carolina Bays existed before the Younger Dryas, as their presence does not correlate with sea-level changes attributed to that period.

Chris Cottrell [28:02]: "They're finding evidence of Younger Dryas stuff in some of the rims of these Carolina Bays... but I don't think so anymore."

Fieldwork and Research Challenges

Efforts in the Field

Chris shares his hands-on experience conducting fieldwork to uncover physical evidence supporting his hypothesis. Collaborating with experts like George Howard and Antonio Zamora, he has undertaken trenching and sediment sampling in Carolina Bays to search for metallic indicators such as platinum—common in extraterrestrial impacts.

Obstacles in Research

Despite these efforts, budget constraints and inconclusive initial results have hindered progress. The absence of prominent impact markers, like nano-diamonds or iridium layers typically associated with meteoritic impacts, presents significant challenges to validating the asteroid impact theory.

Chris Cottrell [31:56]: "We sent them off and nothing really stood out. That it was like, you know, younger dryas related."

Historical Impact Studies for Context

The Chicxulub Crater Example

To contextualize the discussion, Chris references the well-documented Chicxulub crater in Mexico, linked to the mass extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs. This example serves to illustrate the scale and geological signatures of known impact events, juxtaposing it with the still-mysterious Carolina Bays.

Danny Jones [40:12]: "So, yeah, like, what, how many miles?"

Interdisciplinary Connections and Ongoing Debates

Linking Tektites and Impact Evidence

Chris brings attention to tektites—small glassy objects formed from terrestrial debris ejected during meteor impacts—as potential evidence for impact events. However, identifying a direct correlation between tektites and Carolina Bays remains contentious.

Community and Academic Reception

The conversation touches on the lack of academic focus on Carolina Bays, with Chris expressing frustration over the minimal coverage in geology textbooks and resistance from the scientific community to alternative formation theories.

Chris Cottrell [84:59]: "They're so dominant, man. They are so everywhere. And nobody talks about them."

Conclusion and Future Directions

Call for Further Research

Chris emphasizes the necessity for more comprehensive and multidisciplinary research to unravel the mysteries of Carolina Bays. He advocates for utilizing modern technologies like LiDAR and encourages collaboration among geologists to explore catastrophic event hypotheses further.

Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes with Danny and Chris reflecting on the importance of challenging established scientific narratives and the potential implications of uncovering evidence for recent asteroid impacts. Chris expresses hope that increased awareness and continued research will eventually shed light on the true origins of these enigmatic geological formations.

Chris Cottrell [101:28]: "They need to be re-examined. It needs to be put into geology books. It's not even... not even one."

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Notable Quotes

• Chris Cottrell [03:48]: "I do think that they formed very quickly, catastrophically."

• Chris Cottrell [16:37]: "With lidar and all these things added together, we see how many of these elliptical depressions complete their coverage."

• Chris Cottrell [28:02]: "They're finding evidence of Younger Dryas stuff in some of the rims of these Carolina Bays... but I don't think so anymore."

• Chris Cottrell [31:56]: "We sent them off and nothing really stood out. That it was like, you know, younger dryas related."

• Chris Cottrell [84:59]: "They're so dominant, man. They are so everywhere. And nobody talks about them."

• Chris Cottrell [101:28]: "They need to be re-examined. It needs to be put into geology books. It's not even... not even one."

Further Resources

• Chris Cottrell’s YouTube Channel: Dabbler's Den (Please replace with actual link)

• Twitter: @DabblersDen (Please replace with actual link)

• Patreon: Support Chris and Danny’s continued exploration into geological mysteries by visiting their Patreon page. (Link to be provided by the podcast)

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This summary encapsulates the essence of Episode #310, providing listeners and interested individuals with a comprehensive overview of the discussions surrounding Carolina Bays and their potential origins. For a more in-depth understanding, tuning into the full podcast episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Danny]

Foreign. What's up, Chris?

[Chris]

Danny, good to see you.

[Danny]

Good to see you too, man.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yep. The last time we saw each other we were at the Cosmic summit. Yeah, you guys had just rolled in and I, I presented like first thing in the morning and I think, I don't know what time you guys came out but it was probably like 9, 10 o', clock, something like that.

[Danny]

Like that.

[Chris]

And so I caught you guys in the hallway and I had my like my elevator pitch ready to go. Like I gotta go talk with Danny, man, we gotta get this taken care of. And right when I was actually talking with Steve and, and right when I started like, you know, getting into it, George Howard shows up with Malcolm Bendahl so. With his, with his thunderstorm generators and. Yeah, that kind of stole the show, so.

[Danny]

Oh my God, what a crazy freaking situation that is. That whole thunderstorm generator and all that stuff they got going on.

[Chris]

Yeah, I was actually with you guys when we went to go see those thunderstor storm generators. He was there telling us all about it. Yeah, I got a couple pictures of them of you guys checking those things out. What were your thoughts, Wild man?

[Danny]

I don't know. I don't know what to think of it. I know, it's crazy. Yeah, it's hard to comprehend what's going on there.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of where I was at with it too. Yeah, I was really hoping to, to get there and like just have the full picture and kind of understand the whole thing.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You know, I'm a, I'm a science educator and so my job is to take like complex scientific ideas and break them down so, so that you know, 17 and 18 year old kids can understand it. And I'm just having a hard time with that one.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

So I kind of get like the premise, I kind of understand like what, what's happening with, and why they call it like the thunderstorm generator where it's bringing in hot air from one side and cold air from the other side and, and it was actually Bob Grenier that kind of, kind of helped me understand it a little bit better with the, with the ball lightning that's taking place inside of it and that's, that's what's happening. Um, but yeah, I don't know, I, I didn't get the. Yeah, kind of. Do you remember going to the mall when you were little and seeing. And seeing like the rainbow salesman, the vacuum cleaner guys?

[Danny]

Oh yeah, of course, they're still there.

[Chris]

Yeah. I kind of felt like we were trying to get, you know, sales. So. So.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, it was neat. Like I said. I just, I just, I was really hoping to leave there with like a much better picture of what was happening with that thing and I didn't see it.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. There's a lot going on there and there's a lot to understand and. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see if I figure something out. But. So, so you teach? Where, where do you teach? What do you teach?

[Chris]

Well, so I teach in coastal Georgia and I teach for like 23, 24 years. I've been teaching environmental science and earth systems.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And so, you know, what we're going to talk about today is like right down my alley. You know, it's something that I've been focusing on for a really long time. And like I said, my job as an educator is to take those complex ideas and, and break them down for high school kids. Understand? And even like, like with the thunderstorm generator, you know, the same thing with the Carolina bays, like, once we get into it, it's like that's not adding up. Like they're not following those, those scientific processes to come up with the, you know, a correct explanation for how they're formed. And so that kind of started this whole thing off with me with the Carolina bays. But, you know, that's what I, you know, I teach you, like I said, I teach kids. And you know, the whole thing is about the, you know, the scientific process. And you know, that's kind of where I've been focusing on it with the Carolina bays.

[Danny]

So what are the Carolina bays?

[Chris]

So they're elliptical depressions that we find all over the eastern coastal plain from, from south, you know, from just under New York all the way down through the Carolinas through Georgia. There are a few in Alabama. And then they kind of, you kind of don't see very many of them until you get to, around Nebraska and then they pick back up in Nebraska. And so you have these, these elliptical shaped depressions in, in Nebraska. So they're all very similar, similarly shaped. They all have this elliptical orientation to them. The orientation itself is actually pointing towards the Great Lakes of Michigan, which is kind of a telling sign of what they could be.

[Danny]

They're, they're elliptical and they're pointing towards the Great Lakes of Michigan.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, that's pointing like, like they are oriented towards, they all have that, that.

[Danny]

Okay, so they're like, they're egg shaped kind of.

[Chris]

Well, they are perfect elixis. Ellipses, most of them are. You can actually mathematically outline them and they, they are perfect ellipses. And the orientation itself.

[Danny]

Like, have they actually been like, measured?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. There's a guy we'll talk about, Michael Davies, he's been, he's measured over 70, 000 of these things. Yeah. And, and measured them, you know, labeled them. He actually has a survey. The used to be called the Carolina Bay Survey, but now it's the Ovoid Basins survey because he started included some depressions that we find in Texas and things like that. They're not all Carolina based. Plus we got the ones in Nebraska too. So you know, why we really need to get away from calling them Carolina Bays when they're, you know, found all over the place.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

So.

[Danny]

Right. So what is the conventional explanation for what these are?

[Chris]

Well, so the conventional explanation is that they are. Well, first of all, there have been quite a few hypotheses on what they could have been back in the 1930s. And I've got a, I've got an image here. But back in the 1930s when we finally had people flying in airplanes and being able to look down onto the ground overall, they first discovered them in places like, like Myrtle Beach. They started finding them in like the Cape Ferry River Valley. And they would start to take surveys. They would start to take a bunch of pictures. And back then that's all they had was like aerial photographs. And then they would, they paste them all together. And even back then, this was back in the 1930s and, and they originally thought that these were created by meteors. They thought that this. Yeah, that they were a cosmic event. George Howard has a story about his, his boss when he was working in, working on, I think it was in the Senate. And his, his, his boss, the Senator had property that had a whole bunch of these Carolina Bays on it. And he told them the whole story about how. Yeah, back in the 30s and 40s, man, they thought that these things were meteor holes and they'd all go out and start expect, you know, looking for meteors. But nobody ever found any.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And so that kind of, kind of, you know, pushed the thinking towards more of a uniformitarianism process. Like, well, if they're not meteors and they, they must be, you know, something more terrestrial. You must be something, you know, because that's what uniformitarianism is, is that, you know, the, the terrain changes one gust of wind and one grain of sand at a time. And so the whole thought process shifted away from a catastrophic event to it being more of a terrestrial or uniformitarianism process to create these things. And that's kind of where they're at with the now even, even today, you know, A hundred, nearly 100 years later, they, they still here. These are some of the hypotheses that they had come along with, you know, from the 1930s to now. And there's, there's a list of them here, like spring basins, you know, at one time.

[Danny]

Is that on the very top right? Is that one of the Carolina Bays?

[Chris]

No, no, it's not. That's.

[Danny]

What is that?

[Chris]

I think that's a crater. I think that's actually a crater.

[Danny]

That's an actual crater meter.

[Chris]

Yeah, there are some people that think that they were beaver dams. And, and again, we're still going back and forth this whole time. From the 1930s until really the 1970s, it was back and forth, back and forth with terrestrial versus catastrophic explanation for how they formed extraterrestrial bays. Yeah, yeah, so, so, you know, they even, some people even thought that they were beaver ponds that were like super flashed from a bolide event that took place and, and like flash steamed the. The ground causing these. Some people thought that they were giant fish or whales or something, you know, swimming around in circles and you know, making nests and in the terrain of, of South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia and. Yeah.

[Danny]

Are there. No, there's no, nothing that looks like this anywhere else in the world?

[Chris]

Yeah, there, I mean, there are, there are oriented lakes found all around the world. And this happens a lot where a lot of times the oriented lakes get brought into the conversation to dismiss these Carolina bays being so symmetrical. And you know, I just, the presentation that I gave this past summer was called pseudo Carolina bays because when you start looking at the Carolina bays themselves, they're so numerous. There's so many of them that, you know, they're the dominant feature. Like they are the dominant feature on the East Coast, I would say maybe even second to, to like the rivers that flow along the coast. And so I, you know, I've got a bunch of examples.

[Danny]

Can we see the ones that are used to just to discredit the Carolina Bays? Yes, they say that. And how, how do they use those other ones that are. And where are they also?

[Chris]

So most of the time. So there's a couple different kinds. Like I said, the presentation I gave the summer, I kind of went through all of them. I went through a whole bunch. And so, so here's a list that I, that I put together of, of the different Carolina or the different oriented Lakes that oftentimes get used as explanations for the Carolina Bays. I'll go back later and talk more about like what the current hypothesis is. But they're not.

[Danny]

None of them are ellipses. None of them have raised rims.

[Chris]

Yeah. So we have a bunch of different types. Like, this is a big one. The thermo cars lake hypothesis is that. And we do find these. You can see the images right here. We do find them up in the Arctic Circle.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

In Alaska. You find them over in Russia. You also find them down in South America. Like, like very South America. But they all occur in places where you have permafrost. And so permafrost is permanently frozen soil. So and that means that it's frozen like all year long. The only, the very top layers thaw out during summertime. The water pools in those areas and then the wind blows them and they start to form these circular shapes. But I don't, I wouldn't call any of those really elliptical. Now we. This is an area in Alaska.

[Danny]

That's wild.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, this is an area in Alaska. And I could see if, if you were just, you know, scanning through these images, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's, that's what form a Carolina base. But the areas where we find these Carolina Bays are nothing like this. And even during the middle of the ice age, even during the middle peak part of the last ice age, there was no, there wasn't permafrost like this. And so, and that's, that's the time frame that they were saying that these were formed, the Carolina Bays were formed. That really helps when you look at it with a lidar. And it's something that I want to kind of focus on today is just the use of this LiDAR and how much it is, should be progressing, the research on Carolina bays. So this right here is, is an image of the thermo karst lakes in Alaska using lidar. And we don't see the same, the same features that we see with the Carolina bays. Like, we don't see the raised rims that you would see with all those Carolina bays. We don't see that perfect elliptical shape. And the orientations are all kind of off and they kind of bleed in together too. So when you compare that to places like this, and this is in South Carolina, it's close to McIntyre Air Force Base. And again, this is just using Google Earth, which, you know, 20 years ago we didn't really have. And so within the past 20 years we've had Google Earth and now within the past like 10, 10 to 12 years, we can add the lidar to the terrain itself. Oh, wow. And now we see how many of these elliptical depressions complete their coverage.

[Danny]

So random too.

[Chris]

They're everywhere. So these are Carolina Bays.

[Danny]

And they're not all the same shape. They're all different.

[Chris]

And. Well, so this is kind of a. It's, it's, it's almost the, the terrain is, the terrain is steep right here. So. So the, the Carolina Bay is formed a little bit differently here just because of how they. We think that this, these were catastrophic ice ejecta. And we can get into that in a few minutes. But, but the terrain here having that steepness to it causes it to, to deform as, as being formed. Another example that they often get confused with is the Playa Lakes or the, or the, that we find these in Texas. You also find them in places like Australia. You always find interesting. Yeah, you always find them in river basins or areas where you had sheet flooding where, where a tremendous amount of water flood flooded over the terrain like you find in Texas. Here's an area in Texas is kind of close to. This is the city of Amarillo. And when you look at the lidar. Holy. Right now, again, these are play lakes. These are oriented lakes that were created from water as water flowed over the, this, this plane at the time. Right. So these probably formed before all of this was all underwater a long time ago. Long, long time ago.

[Danny]

How long ago?

[Chris]

I. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know about Amarilla, how far up that was. But this is formed. And basically what happens is. Well, I can go back to how they're formed here where you have. It's usually very arid areas and you have lower water tables. And so when it, when it rains, the water pools up in areas and then it dries and so you get these cracks. And so the next time it rains, the water quickly goes into the cracks, fills it back up and then, you know, so, so you do end up with these like circular depressions that, that we see.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

You know, here makes sense. But you also see that all of them have like a low point where there's some of them still have water in them.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

But yeah, those aren't Carolina Bays.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

They're, they're, they're Playa lakes. Okay, here's another area in South Carolina. Again, these are to be Carolina Bay. This is close to Shaw Air Force Base. I should probably stop focusing on like areas around Air Force bases.

[Danny]

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[Chris]

I don't think they are meteor impacts. What do you think? I don't think they are. So. So what? I think they are. And again, I can go all the way back to that original slide with the, the catastrophic versus the, the uniformitarianism explanation. I do think that they formed very quickly, catastrophically. But now like I said, we have better, we have the, the better technology now with the, with the Google Earth, we have the lidar. All these things added together.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Look at this.

[Danny]

Pinellas County.

[Chris]

Yeah. Well I, I went ahead and made that for you. This is. Yeah, this is the area. This is here, right? This is. What the.

[Danny]

Was that? Oh, bless you. I was like, what was.

[Chris]

This is. This is the area around St. Pete.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And. And again, this is just showing the importance of the lidar. I mean, there's so many people here. Dude. Dude, there are so many people.

[Danny]

One of the most populated counties.

[Chris]

I swear, dude, they're everywhere.

[Danny]

It's like 3 million people here.

[Chris]

I can't believe it.

[Danny]

After the pandemic is filled up.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

But now, after we had just got hit to buy her two hurricanes, People are starting to leave again.

[Chris]

No, they're. They're there. I took a drive down to the beach, man, they're everywhere.

[Danny]

It's ridiculous. It's not nearly as bad as it was two years ago.

[Chris]

Y. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, again, this whole area. This whole area is completely urbanized, right? You've got houses, you've got highways and roads, and. And you can't see anything that used to be there 200 years ago. This is not there anymore. But when you click on. When you use the lidar, even in areas like this that are super populated, it really highlights, like, the ground. It highlights what the ground actually looks like. And. Holy crap. Yeah. Now this is all done by Michael Davies. He. He. Well, we'll talk about him later on because it's kind of a big deal with some of these hypotheses.

[Danny]

Look how low that peninsula is. Like that Tampa Bay. That's where. That's where Patrick's. Or not Patrick McDill Air Force Base is right there.

[Chris]

Got a nice golf course over there.

[Danny]

Yeah. That ship would be all underwater.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. And it does go underwater when you have, like, hurricanes.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah. No, it was underwater a couple months ago.

[Chris]

Right, right. And you can actually use maps like this to see, like, well, where are the safest places to be. Hurricanes coming.

[Danny]

That's wild.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Punch in on that a little bit.

[Chris]

I can't with this. No, because it's an image.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

I could if. If you wanted to. I mean, the access to this lidar.

[Danny]

Look at that. That freaking cut going all the way through. Okay, so peninsula.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. So that cut was formed the last time sea levels were a lot higher, which was 125,000 years ago. It's called the Eon. So 125, 000 years ago, sea levels were actually higher than they are today by about nine meters, I think about 30ft. Okay. And that's 30ft doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you start looking how flat these. These areas are, that's a huge deal.

[Danny]

30Ft. My house is 30ft above sea level, so it'd be right at my house.

[Chris]

Right at your door. Yeah.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So. And. And you know I don't. We're not going to dox you here, but yeah, you're probably somewhere on areas. Yeah, you're probably somewhere on one of those higher up areas. And so the. What, Michael Davis.

[Danny]

You see that our studio is right at that, like right on the edge. Like you see the outer barrier island there?

[Chris]

It's like right.

[Danny]

Very far left all the way to the very edge by the Gulf.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Danny]

So the barrier island is there, and then immediately across the bay you have, you have red. So that's where we are right now. Yep.

[Chris]

Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I went down to Indian Rocks beach earlier. And so, so I was at the beach today, you know, and went up in elevation to get to the studio.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And you can see that with this, what Michael Davies has done is he's taken USGS lidar and he has color coded it by meters. Have you ever used a topographic map before? Yeah, yeah. So topographic maps are. They have lines and you have to know how to read the lines. And each line is a certain distance above or below the elevation.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And what he did is he actually made this, this color code where each color is one meter higher. And so you go, you start off with blue and you go 1 meter, 1 meter, 1 meter, all the way up to 10 meters. And then it starts over. So as you're going from blue up to this next blue, that's, that's 10 meters. Right. So all the way around. So this blue right here is 10 meters above sea level. If you keep going up, you would end up at 30 meters above sea or. Yeah, 30 meters above sea level.

[Danny]

Oh, okay.

[Chris]

So. So it's really interesting because it shows you, like, not just where the elevated areas are, but if you know how to read it, you can actually measure how high they are based on the color codes. Mm. Which is super helpful.

[Danny]

So purple could either be below sea level or 9 meters above sea level.

[Chris]

Well, the blue is always going to be the sea level. So the very bottom blues like zero. That's, that's.

[Danny]

But it's like purple at the very, very bottom.

[Chris]

Where are you looking at?

[Danny]

At the bottom of your little graph?

[Chris]

Oh, yeah, well, that's because it starts back over here. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So we start there. This is actually zero right here. And it starts back over here. So if you just focus on red, for instance, that red is right there. We see another red right there. So that's, that's another 10 meters above where the first red was. So.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And then these really flat areas. That's really helpful. Right. If you go to the mountains with this lidar, it's really confusing. It's just color, you know, colored all the way up.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

But a lot of these areas where we find Carolina Bays are super flat. Super flat. And so, so having a lidar like this that you can. And I access with this, this with Google Earth, you can go right on to Google Earth. It's. You can actually. It's free. All of. All of your listeners can. Can log on to CentOS.org and download this program and use it with your. Your own Google Earth. It's. It's really neat. So.

[Danny]

That's so crazy, man.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yep.

[Danny]

That's interesting. That big cut that is going right through.

[Chris]

Yeah. Again, river just going right. Well, because it was a big river. It was, you know, last time sea levels were higher, water flowed through here. And now the whole area has been lifted up. I have no clue what's here now. I can go back. They look.

[Danny]

Oh, look at that.

[Chris]

Yeah. Is there a channel there or maybe a ditch or something? I don't know.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah. No, it looks like they're there. I think there is a little river that might flow all the way through there.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's why. It's probably a drainage ditch or something now.

[Danny]

Yeah, it's probably drainage. Right, exactly.

[Chris]

But that's only because it's so low that it was draining through that anyway.

[Danny]

Right, Right.

[Chris]

So.

[Danny]

And that big circular area is interesting too.

[Chris]

Right. So this was a barrier island. You said that a minute ago. That was a barrier island 125,000 years ago when sea levels were higher.

[Danny]

God damn, that's interesting.

[Chris]

It is cool.

[Danny]

Yeah. I would love to just explore the entire United States on the lidar.

[Chris]

You can. Like I said, cintos.org he has the entire continental US color coded and map.

[Danny]

Just what is it? What is it?

[Chris]

Centos Santos C I N T O S Here, I think I got it. Yeah, I've got it. On this slide right here. This is Michael Davis right here. He's the guy. He.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

He is a computer scientist and, and he's actually turned his processing skills towards geology and mapping these, these Carolina bays using this ladder. So you see all those red dots? He's actually gone in, measured, oriented and, and mapped every single one of these Carolina bays. Okay. We find on the train. Yeah, it's, it's. It's really impressive. I.

[Danny]

So what did he find? What? What's. So you said. Oh, going back, you said you don't think they're.

[Chris]

I don't think.

[Danny]

You don't think they're common impacts.

[Chris]

I do not think. I think that they're the result of a single common impact. Means ice, not that common impact. I would say actually an asteroid impact.

[Danny]

But it's just ice fragments.

[Chris]

Yes. Blasted secondary ice fragments from Michigan. All of these have orientation back to the Great Lakes, back to Michigan.

[Danny]

Right. And so a comet hit or an asteroid hit the Great Lakes ice cap and then ejected just tons of fragments of ice. That's.

[Chris]

That's right. Or, or something like that happened. Yeah. And then I'll get to that just while I'm on it. I don't know if we're still showing that, but yeah. So this is the train that we see now that the lidar really helps when you get up to these really flat areas in the middle part of middle part of Georgia. And like I said, I do think that these are the result of some kind of cosmic impact into an ice sheet at some point in the past. That's the debatable part to me is like, when did it happen? And we can talk, we'll talk about that, I'm sure. But yeah, you know, this, this page right here, it's just, you know, shows kind of the whole story written in the landscape where you've got the Carolina Bays all on the east coast. The entire coastal plain is covered with them. You go across to Nebraska. Like this image right here shows you all. These are the Carolina Bays all the way on the other side, Nebraska, you've got these elliptical shaped depressions that are oriented in the opposite direction of the Carolina Bays, but they're all oriented to the same place on, on a map.

[Danny]

How so?

[Chris]

Like these right here, if we line them up, they line up right above Michigan. Right above Michigan.

[Danny]

Oh, you. Okay, so you're saying the shape of the ellipse is oriented towards the same direction. Interesting.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Oh, wow. Go back to that last one. Oh.

[Chris]

Now again, a lot of tide.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

The Laurentide ice sheet is the name of the ice sheet that was over Canada. Basically, whenever we're in an ice age and we go through ice ages over and over and over again.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And, and every time that we go into an ice age, ice piles up on top of Canada and the sea levels drop tremendously. They drop really, really low. The last time they dropped, it was like 400ft lower than it is today. So go down to the beach, take a boat, go out as far as you can go to until the death readers are even 400ft lower. And that's where the beach was.

[Danny]

That's far.

[Chris]

Yeah. And 20, 000 years ago, that's where it was at. And it is far. It is for the, like, especially here.

[Danny]

Because the Gulf's shallow.

[Chris]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Danny]

Gulf of America.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's, that's actually why I had to go to the beach today to get a picture of the Gulf of America. But, but yeah, yeah. So, and another interesting thing too is when you get to where they all cross, this is the actual bedrock geology of Michigan.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And, and I don't, I don't. To me that looks like a bullseye like that. The ring shaped bedrock geology.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Each one of these different colors is a different type of bedrock. And.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And that's basically, it's a basin. It's called the Michigan Basin.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And basins form. The law of original horizontality says that like sand lays in flat layers, like it's originally laid out flat. And then if something were to lift it up or cause it to sink, it has to happen afterwards. And so for this to be a basin, it had to have formed flat. And then at some time after that it was formed, it was depressed down. And you know, that's what I think. I think that it was actually an impact over this whole area that caused this depression of Michigan and, and caused the secondary icy ejecta to fly away and come crashing back down into the coastal plain and pretty much 100, 1500 kilometer radius away from Michigan.

[Danny]

So other than the fact that all of these ellipses are angled towards one location where in the Lauren where the Laurentide ice sheet was, what hard evidence is there that this was ejections from a, a common impact?

[Chris]

Well, that's, that's where we're at now. I mean, we're trying to fight for evidence for it, you know, because obviously you've got the Carolina Bays. They're there. The, the perfect elliptical shapes of them should be very telling. I'm actually right now working, trying to get a paper published just showing that we can prove that these are ellipses. You know, we're using something called the least squared method. We're identifying and punching, you know, putting dots all around the rims of these things.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And proven that they're like time after time after time. Again, these things are, are actually mathematical ellipses. And you don't find things like that very often in nature. Like I showed you a minute ago, all of those oriented lakes, very few of those would actually have identical orientation to each other. Very, very few of them.

[Danny]

Is there anything, anything like the, like like nano diamonds or any of the other materials that you find in cosmic impacts there.

[Chris]

So we're looking now. They have found evidence of Younger Dryas stuff in some of the rims of these Carolina Bays. That. That is one of the possibilities is that this could have formed at the Younger Dryas. I don't think so anymore. And we can get into that a little bit later. But I did for a long time think that these were part of the younger drafts event. You guys have been, you've covered the younger times. And I, I am on board that. I am on board that we had major fragments, bolides, you know, blowing up in the atmosphere. We find, we do find lots of evidence of that. And there's been a lot of back and forth of that too. And that's kind of what makes this a little bit more difficult is because there is a connection between the Carolina Bays and the Younger Dryas. And the Younger Dryas hasn't been proven yet fully. Right. You know, most of us are like, yes, it happened. Right. But until they.

[Danny]

It's really hard to prove, though.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. And the same thing with this. If ice formed it, if, if ice literally was. It was ejected from an initial impact site. Ice, you know, an icicle is the perfect murder weapon. Right. You know, once that ice melts, what are you left with?

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

Ponds of water.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And. And that's what they would.

[Danny]

But would. Wouldn't there also be fragments of the rock of the comet or the meteor? Like, would there.

[Chris]

I. If you could find it, then that would be awesome.

[Danny]

But that's what I'm saying. Has there, is there any evidence of any of that? We've gone to the Carolina base.

[Chris]

We've gone looking for it now. Now I think part of the reason is because nobody's looking like nobody's going into the, the apex of these Carolina Bays. With. We tried. We actually went in. I went with like digging right into.

[Danny]

The center, you mean?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. And I have a whole collection of sediment that can be sent off. We actually, I went with George Howard, Antonio Zamora, Michael Davis. George Howard. And he was a guest on your show. Yeah, he used to, he used to own a, a wetlands reclamation company. They would, they would, they would be contracted out to. To re form wetlands. And. And one of his clients had a Carolina bay in his property and they were. Yeah, and so. And he's big time into this kind of stuff anyway. He's actually. I call him the Godfather. Carolina Bays. George started. He mentioned it on the show with you that that's what got him into it to begin with was to get Carolina bays. And so he's always been on, you know, trying, trying to push the Carolina Bay thing along. And so he got permission from the owner to actually, you know, go out and dig this, this Carolina Bay before they turned it back into a wetland. And we went out there with backhoes and, you know, just dug three huge trenches. And we just went down, we got. He had some of his crew go down with ladders and, and take samples. Like every. Like anytime we saw a striation change, he would take samples out of that. We bag that stuff up. I took it back to my. To my classroom. And, you know, I created a lab I actually got in touch with, with Alan west, who's like one of the. One of the top guys in the comet research group. We developed a extraction protocol which is. They already have an extraction protocol. But we had to, we had to make it high school ready, you know, because I was using. My students were doing it. And so I was working with like, the number one and one of the top guys in the comic research group. We developed this plan and that, that would make sure that we got the same results. And we started sifting and we started getting all of those. We got tons of magnetic grains. But the first sample we sent in, we had three trenches. We had one on the top, and I don't have a picture of this one, but we had one on the top, one in the middle, and then another one on the bottom of the Carolina Bay. Okay, so if it was like, if it was like one of these, it would be on the top, middle, and then one on the bottom.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And this was a small one. It was one that, you know, we can actually get into. Small is still huge. There's a whole farm there, you know, that they were. He was using for growing corn or something like that. But anyway, so we went through the whole process of extracting magnetic grains and we sent them off and. And nothing really stood out. That it was like, you know, younger, dress related.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And it's super expensive. You know, it's. It's. It was a couple, couple grand. I don't have that kind of money to, to send these things in. George is the one who fronted it all to begin with. And like I said, we didn't get really promising results with our first go around. So we kind of put a. Put a pin on it, we halted it. And so I still have like two. I still have collection. Collection set for the center, the center trench and the southern trench. That have, that have not been tested yet because we just don't have the money to do it right now.

[Danny]

Right. Well, I mean, at least for the younger Dries, we do have some pretty solid hard evidence. Like we have the. They've dug into the black matte layer and found like the nano diamonds and like, what is it, iridium or something down there?

[Chris]

A platinum. Platinum. That's what we were looking for. We were looking for. Because that's kind of. That one is the smoking gun. Like if you could find. Platinum is a rare metal on earth, but it's super common in, in space. Space rocks. And yeah, they're finding that whole blood just. I mean, the, the, the.

[Danny]

We have the white sand stuff. Like there's so much compelling hard evidence to point to something happening around the 12,500, whatever. The younger dries hypothesis.

[Chris]

Yeah, 12,800 and something years ago.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so, you know, there, there's a lot of evidence for that. They do find that evidence in some of these Carolina. Carolina bays, but they're like in the rims of them a lot of times. These are archaeologists that do this research. Chris Moore, and I've got a. I got a picture of him on here too. But Chris Moore is. He's one of the leading. I think he is right now, like the leading common research group guy. And he's a. He's a geoarchaeologist out of us as South Carolina, maybe North Carolina.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

I actually went and helped him on a dig that's, that's Micah Hanks there in that picture. And we are, we're actually looking for Clovis and, and post Clovis sites and things like that. But he's found evidence of. Of platinum and things like that in the rims of some of these Carolina bays, which is compelling, but not really for the formation. It just means that they were, those rims were there while they were being occupied. And they're finding the platinum there around the same place that you would find like the clothes. It sounds like the clothes people were using these. And they were. And that's what he was. That's what he says, that they were really good waterfowl hunting locations. And so they would go in there looking for ducks and whatever, swans or geese or whatever. And they find, they even find gall stones in piles where they were processing out the, the waterfowl. And then the stones would be left behind. They usually just throw them away because they thought they were pebbles. And then somebody was like, wait a minute, these are Actually like they're from the inside of waterfowler, from the inside of ducks or something. And so. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So they were being used by the Clovis for, for, for hunting at that time, which is kind of, it's a kind of a strike against the Carolina Bays being a, you know, being related to the Younger Dryas. And right now, like I said, what they're finding with, with the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis is that there probably weren't very many direct impacts into the ground, but they were thousands of bolides blowing up in the sky. It's kind of like, you know, we go through, every year we go through air bursts. Yeah, yeah. Like we have shooting shooting stars, we go through meteor showers. Right. And we can plan for those. You know we have right around the end of October into, into November there's a, there's a really interesting meteor shower and it's, and it's related to this because I think that that's the one that caused the Younger Dryas. But we go through it twice. It's the torrid meteor. Yeah, the torrid meter stream. So we go through it at the end of June and then we go through it at the end of October. And they think it was actually the June passing that there was just a, just instead of it being like, like flakes of sand that were burning up in the atmosphere, there were chunks of stuff just blowing up in the atmosphere. We went through a really thick patch.

[Danny]

Didn't this last for like a thousand years?

[Chris]

The, the Younger Dries lasted for a thousand years?

[Danny]

Yeah, like it, like 1200 years. When I first started, when I first was introduced to the idea, I thought like, okay, it was like a one time event. But now it seems like no, maybe it was like kind of like what we went through in Florida this past summer where we got smashed by two hurricanes in a row. Maybe that happened for years.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny]

Like every, every summer we got smashed by meteors.

[Chris]

Right.

[Danny]

Comments.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, and you know that there could, that could have been exactly what happened. They're finding evidence that yeah, this wasn't a one time event, that there were multiple airbursts. I always forget the name of this place. But they're finding in the Middle east it's either Abu Herrera or Tell Al Hamam. It's, it's one of the two. One, one was a bullet event that took place during biblical times. The other one was much older, like during Young Dryas time. And I always get the two mixed up. So maybe we.

[Danny]

Yeah. George was talking about one.

[Chris]

And that was the one that took place during, like, the biblical.

[Danny]

I think it was the Tal Al Hamam. Right, the one where.

[Chris]

The one. The Jordan Valley.

[Danny]

The Sodom and Gomorrah one.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was a little bit more recent than the younger dress event, but there is. There was another very similar event that took place in that area.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

You know, 12,800 years ago, and where literally they find melt glass, like, surrounding, you know, villages and, like, people blasted up against walls and. Right. It's pretty insane. Yeah. And, you know, so these things happen. You know, we haven't had it happen in a really long time. The last, like, big bowl light we had was back in 2012, and Chely Banks. That's the one in Russia. That. Not. Not the.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris]

Not the one that blew out, like, the whole forest, but like, the one that blew up over town and shattered all the glass and was falling on people.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah, we were watching that in here a couple months ago. Yeah, that was in, like, the 90s, I think, right?

[Chris]

Yeah. No, no, that was 2012. Yeah.

[Danny]

Can you find out what that was, Steve? Find out when that thing. When that happened?

[Chris]

No, no, that.

[Danny]

That's the.

[Chris]

That's what he was talking about, the older one.

[Danny]

Here it is. It's the Charlie.

[Chris]

Chalia Banks. Chalia. And I may be saying it wrong.

[Danny]

Chelia Banks meteor, air burst.

[Chris]

That's the one that blew out a bunch of windows and.

[Danny]

Right, right.

[Chris]

We got. There's the video.

[Danny]

Yeah, there's videos people, like, on the highway in Russia, right? Videoing it, like, holy.

[Chris]

Yeah, and this was a small one. This, you know, imagine having. Are we gonna show the video? Because imagine having this happening, you know, thousands of times all across the horizon. That's probably what was happening.

[Danny]

And a thousand times the size. Like, those things go, what, like 40,000 miles an hour?

[Chris]

Yeah. This is insane.

[Danny]

Like.

[Chris]

Yeah. I don't know. Can you get sound on it? Speck in the sky.

[Danny]

Soon, streaking across the horizon, followed by an almost apocalyptic scene. A blinding flash of light, and then.

[Chris]

All hell broke loose. Right.

[Danny]

Dizzying explosions, shattering windows, knocking these office workers to the ground. These students were lucky.

[Chris]

They all thought this was it. Like, they all thought, that's it, we're done. So imagine that happening over.

[Danny]

I mean, they probably thought it was like. Like war or something. For. I think your first. Your first. If I happened here, my first example. Okay, Russia sent a new.

[Chris]

Yep, we're done. Yeah.

[Danny]

The last thing I would. I mean that the comet impact would probably be like the last thing I would.

[Chris]

Exactly, exactly. And so. And then the last time. Right.

[Danny]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

And this is a lot. This is, you know, this one was recorded and that's. That's great. Back into. Back in 19.

[Danny]

What year was this?

[Chris]

2012.

[Danny]

Yeah, 2012.

[Chris]

Oh, wow. Yeah. I'll try to find the raw video. Yeah, yeah.

[Danny]

The chi. How do you pronounce it? Chelia. Chelia Binsk.

[Chris]

Yeah, I've heard it pronounced different ways. I. I'm not fluent in Russian. So.

[Danny]

2012. There's also a theory that the world was supposed to end in 2012. Right?

[Chris]

Maybe. Yeah, that's true. Maybe. Maybe we got lucky with that one little. I think I was about the size.

[Danny]

Play that. Play that simulation on the top.

[Chris]

Orbit. And the thing about this one is it came out of nowhere. Like, this wasn't even part of like a known meteor stream.

[Danny]

It was just a rogue meteor. A little baby one.

[Chris]

Yep. Like, they weren't even tracking it. They had no clue it was on this way. God. Man.

[Danny]

So, yeah, like, that could have been the one that took out. Imagine if that was the one that took out the dinosaurs. Like the size of that.

[Chris]

Oh, golly.

[Danny]

Which was like, what, how many miles?

[Chris]

That was like 11 kilometers. So, you know, that's a big. It was a city sizer. I mean, city about the size of a city, you know, and it came down and it caused all kinds of stuff.

[Danny]

Just south of where we are right now.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Down in Gulf of Mexico. That's the Chicxu Love crater. Yeah. And they just recently, I think last year found another crater off the coast of Spain that goes back 65 million years.

[Danny]

Really?

[Chris]

So this may have been a multiple impact that. That took other dinosaurs too.

[Danny]

So.

[Chris]

Yeah, I don't think these things travel. I think that's like a misconception that a lot of us have is that these things are just zinging around in space. That one kind of was. But. But most of these times they're in orbit around the sun and we just happen to cross the path with that orbit.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

You know, used to be a comet. The tail was stretching across and all that debris, you know, we just go through. We just go right through it. Run. You know, we're moving, it's moving, and we just right through each other and.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

It causes all kinds of devastation.

[Danny]

Oh, this is it. 10 kilometers wide. How many miles is that?

[Chris]

Something like eight. Eight miles.

[Danny]

Whoa.

[Chris]

Yeah. Is this one that dates back like 65.

[Danny]

Doesn't even look like anything like If I was looking at that air, that aerial shot, I wouldn't even imagine that was a crater.

[Chris]

Yeah, well, it's the same thing with the cheek Zoo Love crater. The one, the, you know, the one that gets credit for taking out the dinosaurs. The only way, the only reason why they found out that that was a crater was because of the cenotes. Have you. Have you had down to Mexico like, down to. No, like the. The ancient Mayan ruins and things like that. A lot of those ruins were built around cenotes, which are these. These, like, limestone caves that go straight down. They're full of fresh water.

[Danny]

I've seen people. Do they scuba dive?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

That crazy.

[Chris]

There's all kinds. There's all kinds, but there's a bunch of them. And they formed this, like, really neat, arched, like, semicircle. And they realized that that was actually the rim of the impact that took out the dinosaurs. That the fracturing of the ground underneath the limestone that had built up above it allowed water to seep through. And over time, it's fresh water that dissolves limestone. It creates caves like that. And so it was a quick access for water to go through the limestone and form those cenote caves. And so that. That really neat arch shape is. Is. Was, you know, you go to the center of that shape, and they found the crater.

[Danny]

Wow.

[Chris]

Yeah. And that was like the 1990s, right? Yeah, that was. I was in high school, you know, the whole Alvarez black matte black rock layer, you know, finding. That's when they were finding iridium. They're finding really high levels of iridium all around the planet. It was father and son team, the Alvarezs, and. And they were telling everybody, you know, hey, this. There was an impact. This is what we think took out the dinosaurs. We find it all around the planet. We've been. And everyone was like, no, find us a crater and then. Then we'll talk.

[Danny]

Right?

[Chris]

And it was like the. The 1990s, early 1990s, when they finally discovered that that. That cheek su love, that right little semicircle in Mexico was part of that crater. And they're like every. It was like, okay, all right, you got us.

[Danny]

Did they ever, like, dig, like, if you go way down beneath that crater, is there. Is that freaking asteroid still down there?

[Chris]

No, but there's like completely shattered rock. Like, if you go to. To the. Into. Into the. The cheeksu Love and. And dig down. They call it brescia. It's a type of rock that's just completely shattered and then re. Solidifies and that's Just full of that.

[Danny]

So when that asteroid hits the ground, it breaks up into a million pieces. It doesn't stay solid.

[Chris]

I. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I'd imagine. I'd imagine it does, like, get completely destroyed. It liquefies. Yeah.

[Danny]

Remember, it liquefies and then just ejects into the atmosphere and gets thrown everywhere.

[Chris]

Yeah. Holy. And a lot of times. A lot of times.

[Danny]

What is it and what are they made of?

[Chris]

They're made of mostly iron.

[Danny]

Iron.

[Chris]

But then there's a lot of. A lot of those other rare earth metals, like, like the iridium and platinum and things like that. And so again, this is. But that's a completely different impact, you know, when. When you have something slam into the ground, like. Like what, kill the dinosaurs? I mean, that creates a whole chain of events that, that blocks out the sun for months and it kills off all the plants, and then all the plant eaters die and the animals. And so that was why we had that, like, massive, massive of extinction level event at the dinosaurs, which was good because that allowed mammals to become the most dominant species on our planet. And we're kind of mammals, so.

[Danny]

Right. Well, so allegedly, apparently some people think the reptilians are still running the show.

[Chris]

Yeah. So, but back to the Younger Dryas. Like, that is kind of. What, What? The Younger Dryas, it's the same story. Like, we're finding platinum in dirt layers that hasn't turned the stone yet, but it would form into a. It is a black mat. We have this black mat. We're finding iridium. There's. And so there is some really interesting, you know, connections between the dinosaur killer and the Younger Dryas. But right now we think that the, the, you know, the real effect of the Younger Dryas was from multiple, multiple bolides and not really big impacts into the ground. I do think there's evidence of some impacts on the ice sheet.

[Danny]

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[Chris]

Higher. Above Michigan, there's a couple places. Randall Carlson and I did a podcast a couple months ago, and we kind of highlighted a couple of These places that could possibly be Younger Dryas impact sites. And there's like three of them in a row. It's kind of neat. And one's like Lake St. John. Another one's, I can't remember the other two but, but they're, they're all like in a row right across Canada. But I don't think that the Carolina Bays were formed during the younger dress. I don't think.

[Danny]

Why not? When, when do you think they were formed?

[Chris]

So. Well, okay, so there's two main hypotheses for how these Carolina Bays formed. One is, is at the Younger Dryas and one of the main proponents for that is Antonio Zamora. He'll be at the cosmic summit with me this, this summer. We're actually going to present together kind of. Kind of. Are you going to, going to be there this summer?

[Danny]

I'm not sure.

[Chris]

Yeah, well, if you can't make it, it's a great time. Yeah, we had a good time last year.

[Danny]

Yeah, it was fun.

[Chris]

Anyway, so Antonio Zamor and I are going to be there together next year. And his main thing is that these things happened at the Younger Dryas and he's got evidence, but a lot of the evidence is dependent on the Younger Dryas being proven correct. You know, things like the, the mega mammal extinctions and things like that. That's where he's, you know, and so that, so he's, he's got that idea 12, 800 years ago, 12, 900 years ago that there was an impact into Michigan and it was big chunks of ice that came flying out of Michigan and as they came crack, they actually went up into sub orbit, froze solid and then came crashing back down. And these ellipses are actually the cone, the, the cone of depression as, as the ice reentered the earth there and so they come crashing back down. The, the violence of an impact like that, even a vice because we're talking.

[Danny]

About so was raining. That's his football stadium sized chunks.

[Chris]

Tropicana fields coming down onto the coastal plain of, of North America. Yep.

[Danny]

And a lot of these, a lot of these chunks of ice had rocks frozen in them. Right. Because that's what Grandall Randall talks about. These giant boulders that are in the Midwest that are, that come from, came from Canada or the East Coast.

[Chris]

Yeah yeah, they came but those, those, those came rafting down out on, you know from, from valleys and things like that and it came rafting down onto those areas. And then, so then that ice, big chunks of ice that, that were carrying these rocks that melted and then you're left behind with these, with these big, these big rocks just kind of hanging out everywhere. I'm not sure because we're talking about in the middle of Michigan. There was probably a really big sheet of ice there. And the only analog we really have for that now is either Greenland or Antarctica. And when you look at pictures of like Greenland and antarct, you don't see a whole bunch of rocks laying around. They're on the bottom. But it's almost. I mean, you have like a mile of just white ice right all the way up to the top. And, and I think that this, because I do agree with Antonio's like, impact hypothesis, I do think that there was an impact into the ice and that it did eject the ice away from that location. They went up and then came crashing back down. I don't think they were quite as solid as he hypothesizes. I think that this, because. Because glacial ice forms differently anyways. It doesn't form. Like, you take like ice and put it into a nice, you know, into the freezer and it freezes solid. Glacier ice is forms when you have like annual snows that just pile up and then they get squished down. They get piled up and they get squished down.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

Yeah. And so you create what's called a fern F I R N. And that's. That's when all that snow just builds up, gets squished down and it's. So it's globular, it's kind of like plastic. Plasticky. And then it eventually turns into. Turns into glacial ice. So it's already, it already has like, forgiveness. It like bends and it molds and it has like. I use the term plastic because that's the term that, that's a geologic term. But it, it molds and moves around and, and so if it were, if there was an impact into that ice, it would behave differently. It's already under pressure. It's already, you know, it's already globular. And so I think that would be highly fractured and they would send out and you'd have these like globs of frozen debris coming crashing back down and it would be highly. So I think when they came crashing back down that they, that's kind of what formed that ellipse. That's why they're so shallow. Like I said, when you look at images of these there, they're super shallow in the center of them. And it's because I think that that stuff came down just kind of crashed out. And that's. That's what gave you that. That ellipse with the race rims. Again, he thinks that they were solid and so that they were actually entering the ground. And it was the cone that creates that. And then there was viscous relaxation where the. The earthquakes caused it to shake and. And settle back out.

[Danny]

Oh, okay.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

So the earth. So the earth shaking made these things perfectly round.

[Chris]

No, no, no, The. The impact. So. So again, we have a paper right now that we're trying to get pushed through, but it's the. The cone of the. Of. Of. What's it called? The conic section. So. So we have different conic sections. When something enters a. A. An unconsolidated material, which is mostly sand and clay and stuff like that. And so whenever the object enters the flat plane, it creates a cone. If they were coming straight down, the conic section would be a perfect circle. If they're coming in at an angle, which these would have been, the conic section would be an ellipse. If you keep going, you'd end up with like, a hyperbole and, you know, you end up with these. There's like four different conic sections. These are all elliptical. We think that they're cones of depression coming in at an angle.

[Danny]

Ah, I see.

[Chris]

Right, right.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And again, I do agree with that. The. The physics backs that up. Yeah. So here are the cones of depression. Yeah. And again, you can see the. Where the ellipses are. They're at an angle. They're entering the plane at an angle.

[Danny]

Oh, I see.

[Chris]

Look at that.

[Danny]

That is fascinating.

[Chris]

So again, you know, if you imagine something entering into that flat plane, the. The, you know, the cone itself is. Is the. Is the object entering in and then it seals itself into that. Into that terrain.

[Danny]

Yeah. It's amazing. We can't figure out how to get like, some sort of big drill out in the middle of those things. Just drill down.

[Chris]

Like I said. We. We had. Okay. So there's a couple things. One, we had heavy equipment. Like, we had a. A bulldo. A. A front end. What they call that, the front end loader, an excavator or whatever. But. Yeah, and. And we dug as far as that thing went down and it started filling up with water. We got as much. You know, because you hit the water table too. And so water just started filling this whole thing up.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

We got as much sediment as we possibly could. You know, we. We kind of know where the apex would be. Like, we kind of know where you should probably Dig. Right, but you know, we, how far do you dig? We don't know. Like I said, I don't think that these things made it all the way down to the, to the focus point of that ellipse. You know, then they went all the way down. I think that's something, you know, I think that whatever happened caused it to, to dissipate the energy and, and then, you know, you still end up with the cone of depression, but the energy is dissipated.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

The material. But.

[Danny]

So when do you think these things were from again?

[Chris]

Okay, so. So the other hypothesis that I, that I'm looking at is Michael Davies, the guy who, who did all this lidar. Yeah, he thinks that these happened during the mid Pleistocene transition. Yeah, the mid Pleistocene transit. Now this is a lot longer ago, 786000 years ago. This is the mid Pleistocene transition is a real thing. Like it's. We basically have a chain of events that completely change the Earth. Literally before the mid pleistine transition we were going in and out of ice ages like every 41,000 years. And something happened right around that time that caused a change in obliquity of the Earth that caused the, the ice ages to stretch out to 100,000 years. And we have this recorded in ice, ice core data. So we started going from, we were going from 41,000 years going in and out of ice ages to now going 100,000 years in and out of ISIS. And I'll show you a graph here in a little bit where you can see that. So I mean a change in obliquity is kind of a big deal because that's one, that's one of the Milankovitch cycles, right? You've got procession obliquity and essentially knocked.

[Danny]

This thing, knocked the Earth off its tilt.

[Chris]

Listen, I'm not, you said it, not me.

[Danny]

That's the idea.

[Chris]

I, I think it could be the idea. Yeah, I think it could be, yes.

[Danny]

Jesus.

[Chris]

I mean something happened, something happened to cause the Earth's obliquity to change, to stretch out our ice age cycles. We also find all kinds of other evidence. We find a big one for me. And you kind of mentioned this a minute ago. Whenever an impact hits the ground, it, it's going to send up, up melted rock or melted parts of itself and, and, and so it melts and. But it sends these, these, they're called tektites, it's kind of like meteorites, but they formed from the ground, from the Earth. And we find AA tektites that date back to 786000 years that date back to the mid plycene transition. And it's a mystery. They don't know where they came from.

[Danny]

Where do they find them?

[Chris]

They find them all over Asia. They find them all in.

[Danny]

In Australia that are 800000 years old.

[Chris]

800000 year old Tektites. Yeah. And they're found. I was just you know, you can go look up tektites and they find them all over the place. They. And again they don't know exactly where they came from. Now one of the guys. There's different types of tech tights. That's. That's a good example of one right there. That was probably an a techtite found probably in. In the Philippines or something like that.

[Danny]

Wow.

[Chris]

But it's. There's a huge strewn field where. Where you find these things and most of it's actually in the ocean. Like most of the stream field is actually under the water. And so there's a ton of tech types are still there. They do. Yeah. This. I think I just saw this just the other day where they found. They were just finding like dozens of them.

[Danny]

800000 years old. Just chilling right there on top of. On top of the dirt.

[Chris]

Yep Yep. And it's really. They're really kind of neat because they, they actually show the. They were melted. They were flying through the air when they solidified.

[Danny]

How do they actually know it was 800000 years old?

[Chris]

It's from where they find them in the strata like where.

[Danny]

Like that was just sitting on top of the dirt.

[Chris]

Well that dirt's been eroded away. They find them in other places that are in, in that location. Another thing that they've done is they actually there's a guy who has tested those with strontium and rhodium dating.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And. And they date back to. Well actually let me rephrase it because they date back to the rock layers being Jurassic of age. But that's not when they're formed. Like the rock that formed the sandstones that formed them were Jurassic age rocks. But they, that's what formed the tektites. What's interesting is if, if we look back at the. The Michigan basin, the center of the Michigan basin right here, this pink rock right there, that's all Jurassic age rock. And so, so if this was an impact and, and, and we had sandstone which most of that is Michigan sandstone. If that was ejected from that location it would have gone into orbit, solidified and then came back down on the other side of the planet. One of the guys that's working on this is Tim Harris. Here's Tim right here. Tim is an engineer. He, he used to work for Lockheed Martin and, and Boeing and some of his mentors were like literally rock. He's a rocket scientist himself. But a lot of his mentors were like the rocket scientists during the Cold War. And they use the same impact physics for like ballistic missiles to, to track where we find these tektites all the way back to their source. And he's been putting out papers left and right, but they just don't get taken seriously.

[Danny]

What's his name? Thomas Harris.

[Chris]

Yeah. Thomas Harris. Yep, yep. Yeah, he actually, he came to visit a couple years ago. Now his son was going to be a first mate on a, on a, on a ship like a yacht that was sailing from Savannah up to New York. They're from New York. And so he drove, it was like right during COVID and he drove his son down and called George and he's like, is there anybody in this area that, that's Carolina Bay related? Because I like the, I'm down here, I'm gonna be camping and stuff. He's like just. And he's like. So he gave him my number and I'm like dude, Carolina Bays, come on, you come stay at my house.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And so he came over and we, we, you know, kicked back with a few beers that night and then we were talking about all kinds of stuff. There was a really cool connection with the AA Tech Tights because the, the Mr. TechTite like the guy who, who is known, he used to work for NASA. His name's Hal Povenmire and he's like, he is like the tech tight king. Like he knows all about these tech tights. Yeah. Hal Poven Meyer, he's. He's passed away now. In fact. My wife met him at a gym.

[Danny]

Hold on a second.

[Chris]

That sounds familiar.

[Danny]

Chris Bledsoe we're talking about.

[Chris]

Yes. Same guy. Same guy. I just, I just contacted Matt, Matt Bell. I was like dude, dude, you gotta, you gotta talk to somebody who knows how because there's, there's connections with Hal Povenmire that need to be explored. Yeah. And he's from here.

[Danny]

Meet the guy.

[Chris]

Okay, so my wife met Hal at a gem and mineral show. Completely unrelated. She was there, she was bored, she saw this guy, he called him, she called her over and she started because he had a big map of Georgia. He's again a big tech tight guy. And one of the tech tight stream fields is right Across Georgia. They call them Georgia ites.

[Danny]

Yeah. He wrote a book about tectites, didn't he?

[Chris]

Yeah, I have a signed copy of. Yeah, so. So that strewn field in Georgia is from the Chesapeake Bay impact that happened 30,000, 30 million years ago. So anyways, but he had this picture of Georgia. My wife came up, started talking to him because we have property right on the fall line, which was on the map, and she started talking. His eyes got huge when he found out we had property there, because where he was looking at, if they can find Georgia there, would completely expand his research into a whole nother county. And so he was. Was super interested in that. They exchanged. No, he. She gave him my number, he called me. We had like three or four conversations and trying to find a time where we can meet up to go tech tektite hunting. And it just. He ended up passing away and it never happened. Like, I'd call him like, hey man, I'm going up the property. You want to come? And he's like, oh, I can. I'm going up probably to see Chris Bledsoe or somebody. And. And. And it never worked out. We never got a chance to meet. So.

[Danny]

Wow, that's bizarre. And if you search this guy on the Internet, you can't find. There's. You can't find much.

[Chris]

I know that's. Yeah. Like, I emailed Matt and I was like, you gotta. You guys gotta find something on this guy because he. He's connected to everything. I don't know what the deal is. I don't know. Like, he is connected with all of these different things. Alien abductions.

[Danny]

Chris told me something that he said that when he asked him about the moon, he said that there's ancient mushroom structures on the moon.

[Chris]

Really?

[Danny]

That's what his. That's what his daughter told me. Yeah, that's what he told his daughter.

[Chris]

Oh, Chris, bless. Yeah, there's a really. There's a really neat video of his daughter, Bledsoe's daughter playing the piano.

[Danny]

Yeah, she's a great piano player.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. And then she teaches and it's. He's one of the reasons why she became so good at the piano. He gave her like 20 bucks and gave her one of the most difficult songs to play. You know, it's like, here's 20 bucks. You need to learn the song next time I see you.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

And. And she learned it and. And then he passed away. She actually was like a memorial to him. You can find it on Tick Tock. It's a neat little video but yeah, again, when I heard that name, and actually I think the. I'm referring to Matt Bell's episode with him that just came out this week. He started. He didn't mention how by name, but he talked about, you know, this guy that's, you know, he, he may have said Hal.

[Danny]

We talked about him for like 30 minutes.

[Chris]

Really? Okay. Yeah, he just mentioned tech tights. And I was like, oh, he's got to be talking about Hal Pavin. Right?

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so. So again, that conversation that I was having with Tim Harris in my backyard, Hal came up, up, and I was like, dude, I gotta. I got a couple tektites from Hal. And I went up, got him and showed him. And he's like, yeah, man. And then Tim showed me like the, the, the plasma scarring and things like that from, from when these things were in the sky and how much electricity was, you know, a part of the impact that actually created these things. And you can actually see them. That's what causes the pot marks in the tektites themselves. And, and again. And he was in contact with Hal and, and Hal was like, you know, you guys might be onto something with these things being from Michigan. And so, so they were, they stayed in communication too. Again, there's a lot of really interesting connections that keep coming up with Hal. I think he definitely needs to be, you know, checked out a little bit more. I think. I think there's some really.

[Danny]

So these you got. He. So he thought these tech tights could have been from Michigan.

[Chris]

That's. That's what Tim told me. Yeah. Yeah. Again, when I was interacting with Hal, I wasn't this far into tech tights yet, or I wasn't as far into Carolina Bays yet. I was, I was researching them, but I wasn't went this far into researching them.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And so anyways, the connection with the, with the tektites leading back to Michigan was like, oh, this. You know, these guys might be onto something. And, and you know, if these things did happen 786, 000 years ago, we should be able to kind of, you know, come up with some better evidence for that. And I think I did find some, some better evidence that may suggest that they're older and closer to that 786,000 year year, which is what the paleo Atlantic shorelines, what we're just looking at earlier we were looking at the, the, the ancient barrier islands like here of Pinellas County.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

All up and down the east coast we find that shoreline. There are almost zero Carolina Bays below those shorelines. Zero.

[Danny]

Below.

[Chris]

Below them. Yeah, I'll show you. I'll show you some evidence of that. Yeah.

[Danny]

If you go back when those things hit, the sea level would have been 400ft lower, right?

[Chris]

Well, it just depends on when they hit. Right. Yeah. So. So.

[Danny]

Well, if it was ice being.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So if they happened at the younger drives. This is part of the big.

[Danny]

If it happened during the younger.

[Chris]

Yeah, if it happened at the Younger Dryas, then sea levels would have been 400ft low or somewhere in there. It was. They were rising during the time beginning of the Younger Dryas. There is an exact number. I can't remember what it is. But even if it was half that, 100, you know, 200ft lower.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

If it happened at that time, sea levels did not come even close to our current shoreline. We should find Carolina Bays all the way up to the beach. We should find Carolina Bays across the coastal plain all the way to the beach. And, and again, we don't. And that, that to me was a big deal. This is an image right here that shows the, the ice ages. So. So this shows the ice age. This is where we are currently. This is where we are at the peak of our last ice age. That was 20,000 years ago right here. Right. The last time sea levels were as high as Arizona.

[Danny]

This is. This is marine oxygen isotope stages and relative sea level. So that line that you're looking at right now is sea level.

[Chris]

This line down here, Sea level. This line up here is the isotopes that they're getting out of the ice cores.

[Danny]

Oxygen isotopes.

[Chris]

Yes. Yeah. Yep. So they're using the Greenland ice cores and the Antarctic ice cores.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And they're cross referencing the two to come up with this chart.

[Danny]

Okay, I got it.

[Chris]

Right. And so. And we have stages.

[Danny]

That's interesting.

[Chris]

Yeah, MMIs stages, marine isotope stages. We're in one right now. Like marine oxygen isotope stage number one right now. If you go back again, this was a. That was the peak of the glacial, last glacial cycle when we had like two miles of ice on top of Canada and The oceans were 400ft lower and about. About 100 yard or 100 miles farther away.

[Danny]

This is the peak of the last one that you have.

[Chris]

This one right here. Yeah, that's the peak of the last ice age.

[Danny]

Which is. It was how long ago?

[Chris]

20, 25, 000 years ago.

[Danny]

Okay. And all the way in the. Right. Where is that? How far goes all the way over here.

[Chris]

Yeah, this is 800, 000 years.

[Danny]

Got it.

[Chris]

So this is within that 786, 000 years. That's why this is actually really good data. So here we have the, the peak of the Ice age. This right here was the last interglacial. Like the last times temperatures were like they are today and they were warmer than they were they are today. More ice melted during that time than had melted today and sea levels were higher than they were today. And that was 125. Around about 125, 000 years ago. The mis. Mis stage was 5E.

[Danny]

Wow. So we're like. So at the very, very far left is where we are right now.

[Chris]

Yes, right here. The last time sea levels were at anywhere close to where they are today.

[Danny]

So there's. Here they are the hot. Pretty much pretty damn close to the highest they've been in the last 800, 000 years.

[Chris]

Yeah, there's one other place right here at 11C that was actually higher. You can actually see right here for whatever reason it might have been.

[Danny]

That's terrifying, dude, because those peaks don't last very long.

[Chris]

Hey, you're telling me you just, you just got a, a climate change YouTube warning? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't last very long. And we've been in one for, you know, 10,000 years.

[Danny]

They last. It looks like they last like what, like, like 40 years maybe?

[Chris]

No, no, I mean these are, I mean these are, these are thousands of years.

[Danny]

Oh, those are thousands. Like 40,000, 50,000 years.

[Chris]

Yeah, but, but regardless, you're right, they don't last that long.

[Danny]

In the, long, in the big picture, it's nothing.

[Chris]

No, no. And in fact, we're, I, I think we're nearing the end of this one. And, and if you look at the historically, they go up, they go down, they go up, they go down. We have been up for 10, 000 years. Completely off topic right now, but they, they're up for 10, 000 years already. It's got to go back down. And then there's only one thing worse than global warming.

[Danny]

Global cooling.

[Chris]

You got it. You got it. You can't feed, you can't feed 8 billion people, right? No, with, with reduced growing seasons and things like that. So that's actually a huge problem. And we're like, everyone's freaking out.

[Danny]

Agriculture goes to.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, everybody's freaking out about the, the beach homes when, when we got to be worrying about feeding.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

So anyways, anyways, off topic there.

[Danny]

That's terrifying.

[Chris]

It is, it is. So, so, yeah, I I think that we actually see evidence of, of these last few interglacials in the landscape. We do see evidence of it. They're actually well dated. You can actually see in this image right here. They, they have names. You've got the Pamlico, you've got the Talbot, you've got the. I came out to say that one. Yeah, the Wikamiko Miko. Yeah. I don't. Yeah, the Talbot and the Palm Co are the ones that are important to me because they're the ones that happen here and here. And again, I think that the impact happened somewhere back here or. I, I'm leaning towards this as being a possible date from, from what, Michael Davis and Tim Harrison.

[Danny]

Now, so does, does conventional science agree that all of the, like, what do they say the explanations are for all of these drops in climate?

[Chris]

Okay, all right. Oh, for the drops in climate, like for, for the.

[Danny]

I mean these crazy variations, these jumps and these fall like, like this vertical spikes.

[Chris]

Yeah. So overall it's the Milankovich cycles. Overall, it's the Earth's place in space and, and you know, where the sun, the Earth are. Right. So the Mlankovich cycles, you've got those three of them, you've got procession. That's the. I'm sorry, eccentricity is the, the shape that the Earth takes as it goes around the sun. Right, yeah. It's not a perfect circle. It does, does go more, more circular, but it's more of an oval. Yes, it's more elliptical actually.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And so sometimes we're closer, sometimes we're farther away. That affects the climate. The obliquity is the tilt of the axis.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And, and so that's what gives us our seasons, that's what gives us, you know, the winter, that's what gives us summer is the shape or the, the tilt of the axis as we move around the sun. And so that tilt changes. It goes from like 24 and a half degrees to like 22.1 degrees. Right now we're at 23 and a half degrees. But it's moving, you know, it does move. And, and the cycles are really long. Like, I think the eccentricity cycles are 100, 000 year cycles. The, the obliquity is 41, 000 year cycles, I believe. And then you have the procession which comes up a lot with like Randall Carlson's talks and things like that. That's, that's the great year wobble. That's the wobble of the Earth as it's, as it's, as its axis is.

[Danny]

Like 26, 000 years or something like.

[Chris]

Yeah, and that was 26, 000 years. Yeah, so. So those three things together, sometimes you're a little bit closer or sometimes you're a little bit farther away while the angle's far.

[Danny]

And how much of a variation in temperature is that from the very peak of the spike to the very bottom of it?

[Chris]

I'm not sure. It's usually, I usually hear it's like 20, 20 degrees difference.

[Danny]

20 degrees difference, but that's a big deal.

[Chris]

You know, you drop 20 degrees and I think that's usually Celsius. So that could be like a really big deal. Yeah, but so anyways, when this happens, we end up with these, when the sea levels are higher, we end up with shorelines, you know, the beach, the beach that was formed during that interglacial. And we end up with a series of beaches as we go up from the current beach down here up to like the, the beach that was formed 220 million years ago or something like that. So you end up with all of these different scarps and these different ancient barrier islands. And what really got me was looking at images like this. And it was actually, I came about this with a discussion I was having with Michael Davis because he was trying to tell this back when I used to think that this was a younger dress event. He was, he was explaining that these Carolina bays are really well ingrained into the environment themselves and that they, they maintain that shape really easily for a really long period of time. And, and then he would use a term that it's because the coastal plain is pool table flat all the way to the beach. And, and I was like, Michael, it's, it's not pull table flat. Where I live in coastal Georgia, we have ancient barrier islands. Like you literally go up 20 meters and then, you know, you're up on the sand hill and whole nother ecology. There's a whole different type of ecosystem. And, and I went, I pulled up his images, I went to Google Earth and, and pulled up his image. And when I clicked over to the LIDAR to show him, what I really noticed is where you don't find the Carolina bays where they're missing, right? You find the Carolina base on the tops of those ancient barrier islands, but you don't find them below them.

[Danny]

So where, where are they?

[Chris]

Here, all these red dots. This is, this is panned way out.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

But again, this was the reason why I'm using this right here is because this is actually from a, a field trip guide for geology class for Valley State University.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And so they would actually take a group of students to the beach on Sapolo Island. I usually spend about a week on Sapolo every summer helping grad students. So I'm very familiar with Sapolo Island. There's actually a really cool shell ring, like right here. Shell minimum from the Native Americans that live there.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

Like, yeah, like older than the Egyptian pyramids. It's really cool. Yeah, yeah, really old. And it's right. It's like right there. So anyways, he would take a crew here, they would check out the, you know, the erosion and how the beach forms. Yeah, you would look at the dunes and the, you know, the different types of ecosystems as you grow across the barrier island. And then he would. They would get back on the ferry. The ferry would take you back over here to Meridian, and they would drive and they would stop at these different places. And this was one of their stops was like right here? Yeah, stop one right there. And that was the ancient Bear Island. So when I click on the button, you know, that's the barrier island that was formed125,000 years ago. You go back up. This is the Bear island that was formed 400, 000 years ago. And so you end up having this like, time frame of. Of when sea levels were higher and where those. Carolina or where those. Where those beaches formed. And again you find these red dots. Those are Michael Davies tag those again. If you look a little bit closer, here's. This is actually up closer to Myrtle Beach.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

And this is that first picture I showed you of the black and white one. This is that area today. And you can see these well defined Carolina bays that are up here in this area. This is actually a preserve now. So. So there's no construction, there's no golf courses being built here. And like that. It's all. It's all wildlife habitat. Whereas all of this down here has been like, really worked over with. With urbanization. But. But what I like about this area is that where the beach is right now, the last beach was right above it like the. The last time. And when you click on the lidar, you can see like all of these bays right here. This is the highest point on this map. You actually. You're kind of going up and then back down right here, and then you go back up and then you go way up and then you go back down and then back down. So it's. You're going up and then back. And I can't remember what river this is back here. There's a big river back there. So this whole area right here was a barrier island 400000 years ago. This is where we find the most well defined Carolina bays in this picture as well. Right. So all of these are really well defined. The last. So a million years ago this whole area was. Was underwater. A million years ago is when we had the Penaholaway scarp form. So. And that's. That's like 70 meters or 70ft above the current shoreline.

[Danny]

What is that the Pennaholo way?

[Chris]

The Pen Holloway is the. The beach from a million years ago. So it was. The barrier islands that are formed 1 million years ago are called the Pena Holloway.

[Danny]

And it was super hot then. So there was no, not much ice.

[Chris]

Yeah, I mean. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Sea levels were higher, so it was a lot warmer. Like I said, sea levels were way up during that time.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

But that also means that all of this area was underwater.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And then. So everything that you see in the landscape has to be younger than a million years, which is good. That gives us a baseline, you know.

[Danny]

So none of this stuff would survive under. Under the ocean for 100000 years.

[Chris]

The Carolina Bays?

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

No, I don't think so. No, no, no. As a matter of fact I don't think that they survived the interglacials. And that's kind of the point is that whenever the sea levels rose and form those shorelines that erased the Carolina Bays. Because you gotta remember like right now we. This is the beach. You know, you surf, right?

[Danny]

Yep.

[Chris]

So you know the wave action is pretty constant. Right. You have tides that come in and out every single day. You've got waves that are constantly lapping up on the beach. And you've got things like longshore drift that's constantly moving the sand down the beach.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

So whenever the shorelines, whenever the beaches are one of the oceans rise up to this point, there's all kinds of erosion here. Right. And it's just flat. It's just flat sand. Right, got it. So. So the last one was here. And I can actually. Here's where I marked it. This right here was a barrier island. 125,000 years ago. All of this was exposed, but this was a back bay. This was where you would find like the intercoastal today.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

Right. And so this is wiped clean from 125,000 years ago. But I also think from 400,000 years ago when this was a barrier island. And this was the upper part of that barrier island.

[Danny]

So that has Been above sea level for at least 400,000 years.

[Chris]

That has. This has been above sea level for a million years.

[Danny]

A million.

[Chris]

Yeah, the shoreline. Well, the, the regression that took place a million years ago left that all, everything dry. Right. And then the last time it happened was 400,000 years ago. This was still a barrier island during that time. And then 125,000 years ago, all of this was exposed, including this right here.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

Yeah. So like, for instance, like this area right here on the very top. Yep, that's in blue. I think that this was, These were underwater 100, 400,000 years ago, but this barrier island protected them. And, and this was a marsh. I think this is like a salt marsh. Okay. And, and so a really easy way to check for this, and we just need somebody to go out and do it, is to do some core samples in here. And if there's marsh mud in the middle of all these, then that's, I mean, that shows that they were there when that Marsh was there.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

400, 000 years ago.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And that's huge because again, that's older than all the dates that have been coming up so far. Like even the, the convent. We didn't get into the conventional creation of these Carolina bays. But theirs is, you know, they would have happened between the last ice age, like, like 1200 years ago to about a hundred thousand years ago. They say that during that time, during the last ice age cycle was when all these Carolina Bays were formed. I'm saying that this shows that they're older than that. Like, they're older than even the, what the radiocarbon dates are coming back with or what the, what the optically stimulated luminescence dates are coming back with. This shows that they're older than that. And so they, then they would have to be older than that. And if, you know, they're, they're being worn away by those rise, rising seas during that time.

[Danny]

How far south do they go? What's the southernmost Carolina Bay?

[Chris]

I find them close to where I live. They, they get really sparse as you get farther down into Georgia. But you do find some, there's some around, like Sylvester, Georgia. You. The first one I ever heard of was in Valdosta, Georgia. And that's right. It's like, what, maybe two hours north of here. Okay, three hours north of here.

[Danny]

No, it's definitely more than three hours. Saldosta.

[Chris]

Right. It's right on the, it's right on the Georgia border.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

If you go right up 75, you go right through Valdosta Yeah.

[Danny]

I don't know how fast you drive, but that's like five hours from me.

[Chris]

Is it? So anyways, right. When you cross the board now, it does get confusing. And it was part of that, that pseudo Carolina Bay thing because that part of Florida, you go through all of those sinkholes. Like, it's all karst topography. And so you have a bunch of sinkholes. And. And so a lot of the geologists would mix the Carolina Bays in with being karst. Like, there's actually like, karst sinkholes under the ground, and that's, that's what formed them. But this whole area shows that that's not. That's not right. Okay, but where I first heard about Carolina bays was in Valdosta, because they have a, A Carolina Bay. They're called Grand Bay, and you can actually really. It's a wildlife management area. So. And they have a really pretty boardwalk. And, you know, the reason why they call them Carolina Bays has nothing to do with water. Has nothing to do with like a, a bay and a, you know, on a coast or something like that.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

It's. They call them Carolina Bays because of the bay trees that grow within them. Them bait. Is there like, like old bay that you would use in, like, crab oil and stuff like that? Yeah, that's. That's where those plants grow is in. In these. Carolina.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Why do they grow in there?

[Chris]

I mean, it's just a low, swampy area. So. Yeah. And it's not all of them, obviously. You know, I, I showed you millions or thousands of them that don't have bays in them. But the ones that do hold water usually do have. It's. They're low oxygen. There's low, you know, not a lot of flow to it. It. And so it's a really good place for them to grow. You also find some really cool carnivorous plants in a lot of these. If you go, like, into North Carolina and Virginia, you're going to find like, the Venus fly traps. That's cool.

[Danny]

Really?

[Chris]

Yeah. If you go to, like, the ones in South Georgia, you can find a lot of pitcher plants, which are just swampy plants anyways. But they really like the Carolina Bay habitats.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

The ecology in the Carolina Bays are carnivorous plants.

[Danny]

What a, what an interesting.

[Chris]

Yeah, like the, the soil is so poor that they have to like, trap. Trap bugs to get the nourishment that they need.

[Danny]

So that's so wild. Man, I would love to see a Venus fly trap. I don't think I've ever seen One in real life.

[Chris]

Yeah, you could buy them. You can. I think we bought one at Lowe's. What? Yeah, they had them. They had it for sale. Yeah.

[Danny]

We need to get a Venus fly trap for the studio utilitarian plant at Lowe's. Oh my God, that would be so cool.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Eat all the flies in here.

[Chris]

So let's go and talk about the, the current like, academic hypothesis for these Carolina Bays again because I, I do think, you know, that they are, they have a cosmic origin. Like, I think that there was an event. Looking at the evidence and, and what's interesting is, you know, you've got these two guys, you've got Michael Davies and Tim Harris and you've got Antonio Zamora. And they're just, they're two completely different hypothesis hypotheses. And Michael Davius thinks that it wasn't chunks of ice, but that it was like a cavitated ejecta regolith blanket or something where a.

[Danny]

Who.

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly. So, so an asteroid hit the ice sheet and, and just a blanket of, of sand and water and, and, and ice just kind of washed over and away from the impact site. And then it was, and it was more like, like, you know, like paint bubbles, like when you're painting and it pops and you end up with like an elliptical shape.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

He thinks that that's what Foreign Carolina is. I, I don't know. I, to me, I don't think you would get like that, that precise with the, you know, the elliptical shape of them if that were the case. So I think it's a combination of two of those. I think that it's, you know, Antonio Zamor is more on board, or I'm more on board with his hypothesis of, of the actual ice chunks crashing down. Yeah, at least, at least the outer edge. Obviously. I think the middle part of where this would have happened completely vaporized, but it would have been the edges that came, came, you know, coming out. It came crashing away and then came, came down onto the ground that formed that. But what. Again, I think there's a lot of evidence that suggests that the time frame has to be a lot older. And, and Tim Harrison and, and Michael Davies have a pretty good idea of that Mid Pleistocene, because something big happened during that time and it hasn't been, hasn't been solved. And so we have two mysteries now because keep, you know, there's no, make no mistake about it, you know, the Carolina Bays are a mystery. Like they, we really don't know. Even, even the academic scientists will tell you, you Know what? We're really not sure this is our best hypothesis. Right. And so when you start looking at all of the different hypotheses, you know, you got to start, you know, pulling and taking what you can from those to kind of get a better picture. Right now they think that the Carolina Bays were formed by wind and water. I mean, basically it's an aeolian lacustrine hypothesis. And sometimes they add other things too, like, like a solution, that dissolved solution underneath there and water tables that rise and fall and things like that. But, but really, you know, right now the, the dominant academic hypothesis pretty much, you know, being used by guys like Christopher Moore, Dr. Moore, is, is that it was wind and water. That the glaciers themselves were just blowing air off the glacier across the, the northern North American coastal plain.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And all of the Carolina Bays would have been ponds and, and it would have been swirling these ponds into these perfect ellipses and then they just stopped. That's, that's what they think. And it actually all goes back to a guy named Ray Kalzaworski. He was a geology PhD candidate somewhere in, in the Carolinas and actually probably says it right there. No, it doesn't say it. Anyways, he, in 1977, he put together a PhD dissertation where he got a sand table, kind of like what we, what we have right here, but it would be full of sand. He made a bowl shaped depression in the middle of it, filled that bowl shaped depression with water and then took a fan and blew it across the water in one direction for 15 minutes, went to the other side of the table and blew it across the opposite direction for 15 minutes. He did that for four hours.

[Danny]

Wow.

[Chris]

Well, I mean, I, to be honest, I don't know why, like, I don't know what he was trying to achieve because you know, that's their wind doesn't work like that, you know. Well, the only reason I could think that he would like take the, the sand and go back and forth like that is to show like seasonal variation of winds. Maybe, maybe. I don't, I really don't know.

[Danny]

Still interesting.

[Chris]

Well, it is interesting, but this is what he got. Like this image right here is, is what he got at the end of this experiment. And he made a really cool oriented lake. And I showed you images of oriented lakes earlier and, and his, what he was trying to do in his dissertation was to prove that the Carolina Bays were oriented lakes. And to prove it, he, he took this bowl shape of water and created this football shape. Now from the very beginning, I Mean he started with a bowl shape depression full of water. You know, that's, that's what a crater is. I mean if you take a perfectly round bowl shape, I mean you look at the moon, it's full of craters, it's full of pole shaped depressions. Then he filled it with water and then blew air across it back and forth, you know, for, for four hours.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

It's, there's so many variables, like environmental variables that are left out of this explanation that it just, it, it baffles me that this is still like this right here is like the, the go to for Carolina Bay hypotheses for the academic hypothesis. You know, 1977 dissertation that was never peer reviewed. It was never published anywhere. You know, went into some guy's office and they gave him his PhD. He went on to become a oil and gas geologist, I think in Texas. Never went back to Carolina Bays, never wrote another paper. That was it. And, and this is what they used. In fact, Christopher Moore has a paper, it was actually a presentation that he put together for a conference titled Kazaworski was right. And, and he had this whole thing about, you know, how wind and water and things like that were, were they called katabatic winds, that the winds were blowing off the glaciers. The, the, the air above a glacier is really cold and it's dense and so it blows off the glacier in a direction away from the glacier nature. And he's saying it's those winds that went over those ponds to form those perfect ellipses.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And he's done a lot of work on, on a specific bay called Herndon Bay. And he went through and did a bunch of, you know, OSL dating and things like that. On Herndon Bay. Yeah, they actually think that Herndon Bay has migrated, that it actually started here and had migrated to this point right here. It's all, it's all in that paper. The problem is again, when you start looking at it. So here's Herndon Bay right here. This is using Google Earth. You can see I pinned her in the bay in the middle. This is the one that they did. They've done all those studies on.

[Danny]

Right, okay.

[Chris]

And again, Aeolian lacustrine, that this had to be ben upon and had to have been upon for so long that wind and water had blown it into a perfect ellipse that, that would have had to take thousands of years. And then it stopped and it was a perfect ellipse. But when you look at the lidar, if that's true, then it has to be true for all of them. It can't. You can't just pick one. You know, it has to be. Every single one of those would have had to have been lakes. Again. This is all farmland today. This is all high and dry. These are rivers. These are all rivers of the past. But when you Click on the LiDAR, you see how many or how extensive these Carolina Bays are and they all have this. You. Like I said, using that least squares method, we can go on and we can pick points all around this rim.

[Danny]

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Man, it's super. It's super compelling. You know, especially, you know, I know you said you don't think it's from the younger Dryas, but it's interesting to me how, you know, conventional science and, and academia has not sort of done more research into the younger Dryas hypothesis.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And tried to either validate it or invalidate.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's. And that's the whole point. Like, just, that's the whole reason why I got into this.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Back in 2015, I got, I got a master's degree in geoscience. I started a, A, like I wanted to, to teach a college level geology class. I don't, the timing was ironic because that's also the same time that Randall Carlson first went on with like Joe Rogan and, and, and you know, I was like, hold on. You know, and he started talking about, you know, a lot of things that made a lot of sense about the younger Dryas. And I was like, yeah, so I started focusing on the. And that's kind of why I went back to the Carolina Bays at that time. And then, you know, here we are today talking about them. But yeah, I, I definitely think that this was a catastrophic event, that these were all created at the same time. And you know, now like I said, I do have the credentials. You know, I have the background now. I've, I've taken for some of these guys. I have taken more college level geology classes than any of them.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You know, like I said, I have, I have two minors from, from Valdosta State University. That's where I went to school. That's where I first saw that first Grand Bay. And even then, back then I asked him, I was like, well, how did, you know, how did it form this ellipse?

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

Because, because you really, when you first go to Grand Bay, you go to the top of this tower, it's like 100 foot high and you can just see the whole swamp all the way around you. It's really kind of neat.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And it looks like it's circular. And I remember asking the professor, I was like, you know, how did this form so, you know, such a neat circle. He's like, well, it's actually an ellipse. And, and he told me all about the wind in the water hypothesis and things like that. I was like, really? And he said, but there is also this other hypothesis. This was back in the year. This was 2000.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

You know.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And, and it's really interesting because I got interested in it. I went to the Internet, which back then it wasn't Google. I can't remember what it was, but I googled or I, or I typed in Carolina Bays. And it actually brought up George Howard's website that he talked to you about on his show.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And so I read, I read his paper on, on Carolina Bayes and then I kind of, like I said, I kind of didn't really think about it. I just always thought they were kind of neat. And then back in 2015, I got back into it hardcore and. Yeah, and it was because of papers like this. 1970, I'm, I'm, I was born in 77. So 47 years ago that paper was written. And that is the backbone, that is the bottom, bottom assumption on a whole stack of assumptions that's been built on top of it. And I think it's way incorrect. I think that there is, there's way too many environmental variants.

[Danny]

Can you do a peer review on was.

[Chris]

It was never published. So yeah, it wasn't a published paper. So you can't do a peer review on a published paper that's ever published.

[Danny]

Has anyone, you were, I mean, George has published papers on this, right?

[Chris]

Yeah, I don't know about Carolina Bays. He's published a lot of papers on, on the younger Dries.

[Danny]

Oh, okay.

[Chris]

And then that's, again, to be quite honest, like I said, it's. I was totally on board with these Carolina bays being part of the younger dry story. I was on board with Zamora's ideas. I was like, man, I think this is right, I think this, this is what's happening. Carlson was connecting the Carolina Bay to the younger Dries. That's what got him involved with it. George was, again, I'm kind of, I'm kind of the odd man out now, you know, because I'm like, I don't think that they are guys, you know, and I'm showing you why.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

You know, but I get a lot of push back, you know, convenient if.

[Danny]

It was Younger drives. Right. It'd be a lot more fun.

[Chris]

Oh, you're not even kidding, man. Like, it felt like somebody punched me right in the stomach when I. When I. When I was showing Michael Davis at. And I saw where they weren't, like, there were none of them below that. That shoreline. I was like, oh. Like, I actually. I had to go on earlier today because my last video during that time that. Because I do have a YouTube channel. It's called the Dabbler's Den. And the last video I put out was in October, and. And that's when I found those Paleo Atlantic shorelines. And I was so sick to myself.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

That I didn't post another video until, like, February. I was like, good, man.

[Danny]

Good for you.

[Chris]

Yeah. I had to take.

[Danny]

Most people would just, you know, grift. Would just continue with the grift and just try to, like, keep letting.

[Chris]

I caught myself doing that. I actually caught myself. I made a video about. About Michael Davius. It's actually called the Delmarva Conundrum, because you actually. Actually have a picture of it. You have. You have what I'm talking about, these shorelines in the Delmarva Peninsula of, you know, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia. So here. Here. So this is part of the Delmarva Peninsula. And again, it's all farmland. Now, you. You actually have this highway that runs up in the middle of it, but it's beautiful farmland. If you've ever driven up this way, it's just really pretty.

[Danny]

And where is this?

[Chris]

This is. This is the Chesapeake Bay right here.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

This is the Atlantic Ocean. This is actually like the Outer Banks area.

[Danny]

Got it.

[Chris]

Okay. So. And, you know, they got the Chesapeake Bay tunnel. I don't know if you're driven up that way, but they got a tunnel.

[Danny]

Yeah, I've been through it.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you come back up farther down. But what's really neat about it, again, when you click on it, you can see where the Carolina bays are. They're all right down this central peak. Now, remember this? You got to kind of get used to the colors, right?

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So blue is sea level, and then as you go up, the colors change. And then this next blue is 10 meters up. Right. So this is low. This is high. Then back down low. Right.

[Danny]

It's confusing as hell.

[Chris]

Well, you get used to it, I promise.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

So. Yeah, because some people look at this, and they think it looks like a valley, but it's actually the peak of. Of Delmarva Peninsula. That's why the highway's there.

[Danny]

So it's at only the highest parts, and then it's at the red part, too.

[Chris]

Okay, so here, this is where it gets interesting. Because again, the. The way that I'm looking at this, the hypothesis would be that the sea levels rose, it washed the base away, and then it went away. Right. And so basically, there's kind of like a rule that you don't find Carolina bays below 30ft in elevation because that's how high the sea levels rose 125,000 years ago ago, 30ft higher than today. Right. And then the sea levels dropped. So you shouldn't find any Carolina bays below 30ft, but we do find some, like, right here. Right. Now, what I found was interesting, and again, I call this. The exception to the rule is that this whole area is subsiding. This whole area, the whole Delmarva Peninsula is actually sinking. It's slowly. It could be. It could be isostatic rebound. It could be just tectonics, whatever. But it's slowly. I mean, really slow. It's. It's measurable. You can, you know, they. They do studies on this. A lot of it has to do with the extraction of fresh water and it's causing it to sink.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

Yeah. I mean, that's. That's kind of speeding it up a little bit. But so you do find Carolina bays that are a little bit lower. My point of bringing this up, though, was I was arguing with Michael Davias about this, and. And I caught myself grifting because I was like, you know, oh, these. This could have been like. Like a major flood or something at the younger dress that caused it. And I have a video about it. And I was like, I had to go back later. I was like, that's. That's not what happened, man. This was. The ocean came up. The ocean came up, washed this stuff away. And. And. And the whole area has been sinking since then.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

Yeah. You also find areas like Charleston, they're actually rising too. So this is another exception to the rule. You find areas around Charleston, South Carolina, where you should find Carolina bays if they were formed at any time in the past.

[Danny]

Right, right.

[Chris]

Especially at the younger dries, because this whole area was high and dry during the younger dries. So you should find Carolina base all over this. This area of South Carolina.

[Danny]

But they're not there.

[Chris]

No. When you click on it, you'll see, like, there's some at the very highest points.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Like, there's a couple really nice ones right there and a couple up here. All of this area, you should be Able to see them. These are actually all. This area is higher than 30ft. So we should even see them if. If they were formed 400,000 or, you know, 708, 000 years ago.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

But I think what happened was when you push the time frame back to the mid Pleistocene, that allows for a tremendous amount of time for geology to take place. You know, rising and falling of seas and things like that and tectonic uplift. And that's what's happening here is they have this area slowly but surely being lifted up. They have earthquakes or Charleston's well known for having earthquakes. And so that. That whole area has been lifting up and. And this we should see Carolina base here. But they're not because it's slowly rising, so.

[Danny]

Interesting, man.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yep.

[Danny]

Can you imagine if we had one day some sort of like chat GPT they could travel through time and tell us what was going on?

[Chris]

Hey, that'll be. That's gonna happen. It's gotta happen. Yeah.

[Danny]

I got a question.

[Chris]

Yeah. So can't you run it through a simulation like.

[Danny]

Like propose a give.

[Chris]

Like make a computer. Yeah.

[Danny]

Simulate like an ice impact instead of a rock?

[Chris]

You could. Yeah, you can. There's a guy out there, he's. He's not very known at all. Like, he's just some guy on the. I don't even know what he does. But he's really, really good at computer animation and, and using those. I'm terrible at computer programming stuff. I. I'm awful at it. But he's been putting together simulations of. Of an impact and what would happen. And then I can't remember. His name is. It's ds. And I always have to go back and look at it. He's got a YouTube channel. You could probably. Probably click on it. And the problem is he took a bunch off too. Yeah, he had a bunch of really cool stuff and then people started like checking it out and then he took it off.

[Danny]

Why the hell would you take it off?

[Chris]

I don't know. Here, here's a good representation of it. Like you could also simulate the wind.

[Danny]

Like that dude's dissertation.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And.

[Chris]

And oh, oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

[Danny]

You can disprove or prove the wind as well. Yeah, definitely.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. So right now what he was. What he was discussing was the impact would go through the ice and the explosion itself would come from the bottom. And so the. The ice cap itself is exploding from the bottom of the impact and the ice is spread that way. And so it's kind of a Neat.

[Danny]

Oh, okay.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's kind of a neat way that he's kind of going about it. Again, I have no idea what he's using and how he's doing it, but it is. They are neat simulations on how to do that. And you're. And you're right, Steve. You know, there. There should be ways that you could, you know, go through and find what would have to happen. You know, what exact criteria would you need to make perfect ellipses with wind and water like that? And, And I think I. Again, what I tell, you know, some people that are arguing about it, I'm like, you know, do you. If you had like, as unlimited resources and. And had a lab and you can, you know, do you think that you can make a perfect ellipse with. With wind and water?

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And even if you did, could you make another one right next to it? And can you make three or four of them side by side and then take your whole experiment, take it outside? Are you gonna be able to get the same thing? And, and, you know, the. The variables that go into. To one of these, you know, one of these experiments is there's just so many things that could happen to change. I mean, everything from like, the soil type, you know, the vegetation, all of that would be a variable that would give you a different. That's. That's, you know, one of the main things we teach about in. In. In school is, you know, the scientific method and using the scientific method, and you have to account for your variables. And that wasn't done and they haven't really touched it. It since 1977. Now I can go to the beach today. We can go right now, go back down to Indian Rocks and.

[Danny]

Yep.

[Chris]

And kick some water right out of the ocean onto the ground. And we. Within two seconds, we can make Carolina Bays.

[Danny]

That's interesting. Yeah, man, it looks just like that.

[Chris]

Yep. I mean, we can go. I mean, the. The substrate's the same.

[Danny]

It's.

[Chris]

It's sand. You know, the coastal plain is mostly sandy.

[Danny]

The dude. I mean, the people who have researched this in the past, though, it's not likely that they were like, multidisciplinary, where they, like, studied the caus. Cosmos or like the history of.

[Chris]

Right. Even.

[Danny]

Even streams.

[Chris]

Right. Even Kazaworski went on to become an oil scientist.

[Danny]

Yeah. Like, we have the luxury today to like, watch all these amazing YouTube videos and listen to Randall Carlson for hours talk about all this, you know, Wildly interesting.

[Chris]

Right.

[Danny]

That these guys had no access to, you know.

[Chris]

Yeah. Back then when they, when they came.

[Danny]

Up with their ideas, Right?

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. I think if they just had lidar. If they just had lidar.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

They would look at that like, I don't know why when LIDAR became like, like accessible, why every geologist on the planet didn't come back and look at these Carolina Bays and be like, hold on guys, we got to go back and re examine these. Because there's no way wind and water created these. There's no. It's impossible. It's impossible.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And that's a hard word. You know, when you say something's impossible. There is no chance that this could have happened seventy plus thousand times. If you go to Wikipedia, by the way, they say there's half a million of them.

[Danny]

Oh, really?

[Chris]

There's not, there's not. You know, it's just, it's, it's. It needs to be re examined. It needs to be, it needs to be, you know, put into geology books. It's not even. I've got a, a slide here of a handful of geology neuroscience books that I have access to in my own classroom. And not one mention of Carolina bays. Not even one. Not even one. If you go to a, you know, a university, my, my graduate level books, not one mention of Carolina bays. And they are so dominant, man. They are so everywhere. And, and nobody talks about them. People live in the middle of them, have no clue that they're there.

[Danny]

Right.

[Chris]

And. And it's. I think there's a really neat story there. I think there's a really neat story that needs to be finished.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And it's not.

[Danny]

Yeah, it's totally fascinating. It total. And it needs more attention on it, which, you know, you're doing a great job getting the word out, you and Randall and, and George.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And you know, hopefully we can get some people to start digging into this.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's the goal. That has been the goal from beginning. I'm not the guy, like, I, I'm not the one that. I'm a huge introvert. I. There's going to be people that I work with that are going to see this episode and they're like, dude, I had no idea you're into that. I'm serious. I'm serious. And you know, I'm not the guy to be, to be doing this. I want to see grad students, I want to see, you know, new geology professors. I want to. Those. That's my, that's been my target audience from the beginning of doing this. You know, I wasn't about growing a YouTube channel. It wasn't about, you know, going off to do conferences with. With Randall and those guys, which is awesome. It's been a really neat, you know, side. You know, side event. But, yeah, dude, that.

[Danny]

That event is what was wild. That was really cool to see all those people. Yeah, all those people get together.

[Chris]

Yeah. And I'm super glad that I went first, though, and I'm also glad that you guys missed it, because I don't think I'd be here. If you saw it, you're like, oh, yeah, we got the Carolina base. We got that figured out.

[Danny]

That's funny.

[Chris]

But, yeah, but yeah, I'm glad I went first because, like I said, I'm. I get. I got super nervous. You know, the first year I did it. That was Cosmic Summit 23 was in a big area, you know, like, everybody was in the same area, and. And we had some technical difficulties during mine. The power went out on it, and I was like, oh, my God. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I was, like, really nervous last year. It was much better and I went first, so I didn't have time to get nervous. It was good.

[Danny]

Yeah, that's great, man.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Danny]

Cool, man. Well, thanks for coming. And where can people find your YouTube channel and all that stuff?

[Chris]

So my YouTube channel is Dabbler's Den. I have not taken anything off. Like I said, I. I got the gut punch and I completely changed my mind. I put disclaimers on that. But. But yeah, I, I, you know, YouTube is where you can find me. I've. I'm on Twitter. Dabblers down on Twitter. I. Facebook is. Is mostly for, like, family and friends and stuff like that. I don't really use Instagram very often, but okay, Twitter and, And. And, you know, comment on some of the videos on YouTube, and that's where you can find me.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Chris]

Yeah, beautiful.

[Danny]

Yeah, we'll link everything below. And what do you got, Steve? Patreon.

[Chris]

Yeah, we got. We got a few questions. You want to read some here, then finish on Patron.

[Danny]

Let's just. Let's just do it on Patreon.

[Chris]

Sounds good.

[Danny]

That's it. Thanks again, man.

[Chris]

All right, Appreciate, folks.