Danny Jones Podcast #325 - 5 Performance Drugs Big Pharma Doesn't Want You Using | Chris Bell

Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Danny Jones
Guest: Chris Bell (Documentary filmmaker - "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", "Prescription Thugs", "A Leaf of Faith", etc.)

Episode Overview

This episode features documentary filmmaker and performance drug advocate Chris Bell in a captivating, wide-ranging discussion with Danny Jones. The main theme revolves around misunderstood, stigmatized, or underutilized performance-enhancing substances—from testosterone and kratom to peptides, stem cells, and psychedelics. Bell unpacks the science, history, and societal baggage behind these compounds, drawing on both personal and professional experience. The conversation weaves through pro wrestling and celebrity stories, addiction, pop culture, nutrition, and the future of performance enhancement—always questioning why some therapies are demonized and what authentic education would look like.

Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Wrestling Stories, the Birth of "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", and WWE Memories

• Chris's background in wrestling and how he and his brothers (Mad Dog, Mark Bell) trained and befriended a young John Cena, facilitating his start in WWE ([03:04]).
• Chris’s experience as a WWE writer, being let go, and later being recognized by WWE executives for his work on "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" ([05:54]).
  • Notable Quote: "Vince McMahon called me and said, ‘You said everything I’ve always wanted to say about steroids... you made a great movie.'" – Chris Bell ([07:27])
• The difference between the reality of wrestlers' jobs/lifestyles and the public perception—"few John Cena’s," most struggle ([09:09]).

2. The Culture and Reality of Performance Enhancing Drug (PED) Use

• PED use in pro wrestling, sports, and fitness: rampant drug and painkiller use backstage in the early 2000s; normalization of "homebrewing" testosterone by amateurs ([17:00], [26:16]).
  • Notable Quote: "I have a guy that came to me and said... 'If you’re not homebrewing, you’re doing it wrong.'" – Chris Bell ([25:55])
• Exposes how arbitrary and stigma-driven America's drug schedule is, especially testosterone—blocked or scheduled for athletes but accessible for gender transition ([29:33]-[31:27]).
  • Notable Quote: "The biggest customer for testosterone in the United States is Planned Parenthood… for gender transformation." – Chris Bell ([29:33])
• Hypocrisy and bad science in "banning" certain substances while ignoring the reality of their actual uses ("they don't want to ban things, they want to ban things people want to use for sport") ([53:01], [61:23]).

3. Testosterone—Science, Advocacy, and Politics

• Chris, now working with a compounding pharmacy, strongly advocates for rational, supervised, and patient-specific testosterone therapy ([23:16]-[25:41]).
  • Notable Quote: "Don't make testosterone the bad guy. Use it if you need it. If you don't, don't." – Chris Bell ([25:32])
• Explains societal decline in testosterone, broad health implications (depression, 'weakness'), and the need for bloodwork and education over stigma ([23:16]-[25:44], [142:32]).
• Discusses barriers to access, prescription hypocrisy, and new oral testosterone in development ([147:01], [144:04], [144:18]).
• Danny and Chris trade personal experiences with TRT (testosterone replacement therapy)—abruptly, not a cure-all, but modest in impact ([143:09]-[144:04]).

4. Other PEDs & Performance Substances (Peptides, SARMs, GH, EPO, Kratom, Adderall, etc.)

• Kratom: Its rise as a performance enhancer and painkiller—origin story with Chris’s documentary and Joe Rogan’s podcast preserving its legality ([48:57]-[51:58]).
  • Notable Quote: "Kratom is... so performance enhancing... it is the performance enhancing drug that is just so underrated and underutilized." – Chris Bell ([136:39])
  • Discussed addictive potential, controversy, withdrawal, safe/unsafe use, and the spread of high-potency extracts ([95:19]-[98:13])
• Ibogaine & Psychedelics: Chris’s life-changing ibogaine experience for pain and addiction, and the future potential for treating PTSD/addiction ([54:50]-[61:23], [65:35]).
  • Notable Quote: "I saw my older brother who passed away… all this stuff I was holding onto left my body… This drug needs to be explored." – Chris Bell ([58:17])
• Adderall, Modafinil, Beta-Blockers: Neuroenhancement in sport, music, and daily life; side effects and societal double standards ([44:59]-[48:25]).
• Peptides & Stem Cells: Mixed results—BPC157, TB500, personal anecdotes about pain/injury, skepticism about 'miracle' claims ([41:00]-[43:50]).
• SARMs, HGH: Real-world effects, personal experiences (safest when supervised), “not as life-changing as the hype promises” ([144:35]-[145:18], [132:37]-[133:34]).
• GLP-1 agonists (Ozempic, Mounjaro): Dramatic rise for weight loss, rational use via microdosing, cost difference with compounding pharmacies ([105:12]-[107:23]).

5. Addiction, Rehabilitation, and Sobriety

• Chris’s personal journey through opioid and alcohol addiction after surgery, multiple experiences with rehab (Malibu, state program, sober living) and why he chooses to make documentaries offering hope ([81:46]-[86:50]).
  • Notable Quote: "Every single one of those addictions… springs from pain. All they’re looking for is to get love, to get compassion, to get empathy." – Chris Bell ([85:29])
• The role psychedelics (especially ibogaine, LSD) and AA played in his recovery; honest discussion of relapse, stigma, therapeutic approaches ([86:53]-[89:13]).
• Sobriety, “gray areas” around substances like kratom—addiction isn’t binary, importance of compassion & education ([93:09]-[94:26]).

6. Nutrition and Diet Experimentation

• Candid exploration of carnivore, keto, sugar/fruit-forward diets. Mark Bell’s (Chris’s brother) “sugar diet” experiment, Paul Saladino’s move from carnivore to incorporating fruit ([113:23]-[119:00]).
  • Notable Quote: "The nuance is hard, and the nuance doesn’t sell. The fact is the sugar diet’s not the best. The carnivore diet’s not the best. The keto diet’s not the best… They are all tools in your toolbox." – Chris Bell ([125:04])
• Genetics’ overwhelming influence on physique and strength ([127:58]-[130:53])
• Issues with nutritional dogma, food sourcing, circadian rhythm ("eat when the sun is up"), and “lose weight—solve most health problems” ([161:59]-[164:23]).
• Critique of the seed oil panic and the futility of bans without education/context ([110:34]-[111:36]).

7. PEDs in Pro Sports and 'Enhanced Games'

• PEDs in mainstream sports—actual effectiveness, prevalence, and hypocrisy in shaming/testing ([37:27]-[40:55], [136:06]-[141:00]).
• The upcoming “Enhanced Games”: providing expert contacts, debating the ethics, seeing PED competitions as an honest answer to hypocrisy ([137:48]-[141:23]).
  • Notable Quote: "If you’re going to have the Enhanced Games, make it enhanced." – Chris Bell ([141:01])

8. Pop Culture: Metallica and Musical Performance

• Anecdotes about Metallica, concert security, and the primal energy of stadium rock ([67:49]-[80:08]).
  • Notable Quote: "If I was from 2,000 years ago and I took a time machine to that concert… those dudes are gods." – Danny Jones ([74:04])
• Discussion of creative flow and how psychedelics/substances have influenced not just athletes, but musicians ([141:41]).

9. Biotech and the Future of Enhancement

• CRISPR, myostatin blockers, the possibility (and reality) of designer babies and gene modification ([154:21]-[178:49]).
• Stories about “ordering” genetic traits (athletic sperm donation), skepticism about how much future enhancement is possible or even beneficial ([177:48]-[179:33]).
• The trickiness of separating genetic/behavioral contributors to success, the importance of authenticity and honesty in these conversations ([179:53]).

10. Filmmaking and The Cost of Truth

• Behind the scenes of Chris’s documentaries; loss of credit for "Trophy Kids" after rehab ([169:00]-[172:47]).
• Ongoing mission: “I make the documentaries I make because I want to help people.” ([87:41])
• Future plans—sequel to "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", ibogaine and kratom updates, need for critical, honest voices in the discourse ([181:22]-[182:02]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On societal hypocrisy:
  "Joe Biden... went against the advice of the DEA and the American Medical Association... and pushed to make steroids a Schedule III drug. Then... his administration was pushing to legalize testosterone for gender-affirming care." – Chris Bell ([30:15])
• On the current state of social media-fitness culture:
  "Steroids are at an all-time high... Everyone’s juiced up... It’s sad—people aren’t putting in that kind of work anymore." – Chris Bell ([22:05])
• On the dangers of unregulated use:
  "When you’re 20, you’re buying [steroids] behind the gym... They don’t know anything about their levels. They’re just haphazardly doing this." – Danny Jones ([22:34])
• On performance enhancement as a nuanced debate:
  "Drugs aren’t good or bad. They just are… There’s risk and reward." – Chris Bell ([104:51])
• On addiction:
  "I had to go to rehab. I went to rehab in Malibu... the Malibu one was fluffy... and then for 22 days that felt like hell… But I got to see all the ways in which it worked. Every addiction springs from some sort of pain." – Chris Bell ([81:46]-[85:29])

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 03:04 | Wrestling, John Cena origin story | | 07:27 | Recognition from WWE leaders post-doc | | 17:00 | PED/Painkiller culture backstage in WWE | | 23:16 | Blood work and the rational use of testosterone | | 29:33 | Planned Parenthood, testosterone, trans care | | 41:00 | Peptides, BPC157, stem cell therapy reviews | | 48:57 | Origins and explosion of kratom in US culture | | 54:50 | Ibogaine, chronic pain, and psychedelic cures | | 81:46 | Chris’s addiction & rehabilitation story | | 105:12 | Ozempic, GLP-1s, compounding pharmacies | | 125:04 | Diet dogma, "toolbox" approach, carnivore/keto | | 136:39 | Kratom as overlooked PED, sports testing, EPO | | 137:48 | “Enhanced Games” and open PED usage | | 142:32 | Testosterone & mood, why access is so restricted | | 154:21 | Genetic engineering, myostatin, follistatin | | 169:00 | "Trophy Kids" film, lost credit, parent pathologies| | 181:22 | Chris's future documentary plans |

Final Thoughts

Chris Bell’s perspective is a rare combination of personal trial by fire, meticulous research, open curiosity, and a fighter’s willingness to challenge medical and cultural orthodoxy. The episode stands out for its refreshing honesty, tested skepticism, and a through-line of authentic advocacy for open dialogue and better education about drugs, addiction, health, and the pursuit of optimal performance. Whether you come for the wrestling war stories or the breakdown of the science behind new performance compounds, you will leave with a much broader—and more nuanced—view of what it means to enhance the mind and body.

Find Chris Bell:

• Instagram: @bigstrongfast
• His documentaries: "Bigger, Stronger, Faster," "A Leaf of Faith," "Prescription Thugs," "Trophy Kids" (on HBO Max)

Closing:
"Drugs aren't good or bad—they just are... All that matters is education, honesty, and self-awareness." – Chris Bell