Danny Jones Podcast #333

"What Destroyed VICE Media: The Story They NEVER Told" | Guest: Thomas Morton
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Danny Jones
Guest: Thomas Morton (Former VICE staffer, journalist, documentary filmmaker)

Brief Overview

In this episode, Danny welcomes journalist and former VICE staffer Thomas Morton (often known as "Baby Balls") for a dive into the untold, inside story of VICE Media—its cultural rise and fall, creative personalities, business misadventures, and how changes in the media landscape ultimately destroyed what once made VICE unique. The two reflect candidly on Morton's recent Gavin McInnes documentary, the larger social dynamics that shaped VICE, and the state of media and journalism in the age of content and algorithms. The conversation veers into personal anecdotes, the evolution of youth culture, immersion journalism, social trends, digital platforms, and more, all peppered with Morton's sharp wit and decades of firsthand experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins and Spark Behind the "Gavin" Documentary

• Why the Documentary?
  • Morton attributes the choice partially to timing—his pitch gained traction after the January 6th events made topics like the Proud Boys relevant.
  • Felt a sense of duty to capture his era at VICE:

    “I spent 15 years watching people from outside the company try to tell the story of VICE and just trip over their ass getting it wrong... so I kind of owe it to the good times to make a college effort at capturing the stories of that era.” (01:05)

• Greenlighting With Hindsight:
  • Admits it sounds mercenary, but sometimes “bankability” is needed to get sensitive stories told.

2. Nostalgia and the VICE Vibe

• Neither Danny nor Morton “misses” VICE exactly, but there’s nostalgia for its creative heyday—a feeling akin to reminiscing about wild school days, but knowing it’s gone:

  “Do you miss it [VICE]?”
  “Ish. Like, do you miss high school? …I had a great time being a teenager. I think fondly on that. I don’t need to do it again.” (02:26)

3. How VICE Changed Media (And Outlived Its Purpose)

• VICE once offered something radically countercultural, only to see the industry adopt its style and dilute its uniqueness:

  “What I thought was so cool was it’s the opposite of what all the other media is doing. ...eventually they just started parroting being the same thing.” (03:19-04:07)

• Morton: “Now it’s what everything does.” (04:06)

4. Unsung Heroes & Dynamics Behind the Scenes

• Many “geniuses” contributed, no single mastermind:

  “It was a room full of geniuses who all either loved each other or eventually hated each other, given, you know, depending what time of day it was.” (06:37)

• Founder attributions: Gavin McInnes as frontman/soul, Suroosh Alvi with the original “soul” in Montreal, and Shane Smith as the true business visionary.

5. Success, Money, & Selling Out

• Discussion of what McInnes made after leaving, and VICE’s insane rise in valuation.

  “He left the company with something like 13 million...when he got bought out.” (09:29)

• But McInnes remained true to his provocateur persona:

  “He kind of stuck to the game and stuck to his art and never changed...” (08:38)

6. The End of VICE As We Knew It

• VICE’s bankruptcy, rescue by a Nashville VC, and shift to a slow fade vs. a “romantic death.”

  “It never got the dramatic romantic death it deserved. It’s just going to kind of stumble along like Rolling Stone or Spin or something.” (12:14)

7. Inside VICE: Day One & Immersion Journalism

• Morton recalls his cockroach-infested first day:

  “As I was stepping out...just like, a volcano of cockroaches, like, enveloped my arm. ...That was within five minutes of my internship.” (16:05)

• VICE’s signature: “immersionism”—actually going places and living within a story, as opposed to “Google journalism.”

  “The funnest part of writing...is going out, meeting people, and talking to people. Sitting at your desk is the worst part.” (29:05–29:06)

• Parody of mainstream newsroom practices—the “anti-Google journalism” ethos.

8. Cultural Provocation, Punk Ethos, and the Limits of Edginess

• Stories about McInnes’ sense of humor, provocation, and punk influences.

  “Gavin was a super creative provocateur...strange guy, played these role playing things with people.” (09:07)

• Today’s culture is less tolerant of his brand of provocation; the “simulation” is gone.
• Memorable Anecdote:
  McInnes “sieg-heiling” a mailman as a weird, edgy, but (then) obviously not neo-Nazi joke—something both inappropriate and impossible today. (18:15)

9. VICE’s Expansion: Video, TV, and Hosted Content

• From magazine to web and finally TV; meeting Spike Jonze was pivotal.

  “Supposedly...Spike Jonze...asked, ‘Do you film your pieces? ...Of course we do.’ ...That leads to making online video stuff.” (32:14)

• Early video docs: “Balls Deep,” “Noisy,” and the evolution away from being purely gonzo.

10. Media Consolidation, Internet Culture, and Content Creation

• The rise of “content” over reporting or art:

  “Content is like...whatever the fuck we put in...whoever's art or writing...it's all interchangeable, it really doesn't matter.” (126:45)

• Social media’s effect on real reporting, the explosion of niche “content creators”—and how algorithmic pressures warp journalism.
  • “Now everybody can be a news source, right?” (72:32)

11. VICE Legacy Reflections and Generational Shifts

• What happened to the “immersive” spirit (as in Andrew Callaghan/Channel 5)?
• The “Flanderization” of personalities (Skip Bayless, Alex Jones) and the way creators lean into their audience’s expectations for money or relevance.

12. Investigative Stories, Death Row, and Human Connections

• Morton’s immersion journalism: stories from inside Death Row Texas, interviewing prisoners, and the curious phenomenon of “Death Row Wives.”

  “For a woman who's had a hard time with men and who's, you know, been traumatized, it's like, here's a guy, you always know where he's going to be...he's never gonna...turn it around on you.” (94:00)

13. Technopoly and Media Power Structures

• Media, tech, and government: everything from CIA influence (Project Mockingbird) to the rise of Google and the convergence of social/financial data.
• The “technopoly” (referencing Neil Postman, Marshall McLuhan):

  “Means of the information revolution is controlled by companies. You can't build your own computer…this changes the lay of the land...” (123:51)

14. AI, Content, and the End of Journalism?

• Fears about what happens as AI mediates audiences, moderation, journalism, and discourse.
• Platform risk:

  “Journalism is about turning over rocks and finding stuff...If you’re doing that, YouTube is not the proper vehicle to do that.” (155:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On VICE’s True Nature:
  “There was no mastermind of Vice. It was a room full of geniuses who all either loved each other or eventually hated each other...” —Steve (06:37)
• On Content Creation:
  “Content is like...whatever the fuck we put in...it's all interchangeable, it really doesn't matter.” —Steve (126:45)
• On Immersion Journalism:
  “The funnest part of writing...is going out, meeting people, and talking to people. Sitting at your desk is the worst part.” —Steve (29:06)
• On Provocation in Media:
  “He was a super creative provocateur...Strange guy, played these role playing things with people.” —Danny (09:07)
• On Nostalgia:
  “I miss it in the sense that I'm nostalgic for it a little bit, but that's just, you know, sad old guy.” —Steve (02:26)
• On Modern Digital Life:
  “The Internet is…now everybody made by people who aren't doing something better with their lives at any given [moment].” —Steve (72:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:05 – Why Morton made the Gavin documentary; reflections on 15 years inside VICE
• 03:19–04:07 – Danny describes his first exposure to VICE and what made it different
• 06:36–07:32 – No single mastermind at VICE; breakdown of founder roles
• 09:29 – McInnes’ cash-out, myth vs. reality
• 12:14 – What’s left of VICE after bankruptcy
• 16:05–18:14 – Morton’s first day at VICE: cockroaches, chaos, and “the old days”
• 21:53–24:56 – The rise of immersionism and opposition to “Google journalism”
• 29:05–29:06 – “Part of the fun is going out, meeting people, and talking to people.”
• 32:14–33:20 – Spike Jonze and the video revolution
• 54:58–58:40 – Gavin doc conclusions: "What happened to Gavin?" (it's complicated)
• 116:32–121:10 – CIA, media, open-source journalism, and government influence
• 123:51 – The meaning of “technopoly” and how control of information changed
• 126:45 – “Content is like...whatever the fuck we put in...it's all interchangeable...”
• 155:19 – Risks and limits of journalism in an algorithmic, platform-owned world

Tone & Style

The tone is loose, conversational, and sometimes irreverent—reflecting Morton's history at VICE and the host’s mix of curiosity and skepticism. There’s deep insider knowledge, honesty about the flaws and failures of the media business, plus plenty of humor (and a few wild stories) to leaven the heavier insights. Politics, tech, and social trends are covered in a way that’s more observational than polemical, bearing the scars and amusements of veterans who’ve seen the “youth media” revolution peak and recede.

Conclusion

This episode will appeal to anyone curious about the meteoric rise and slow implosion of VICE, the hazards of modern media, or how journalism has changed in the age of “content.” Come for the inside dirt; stay for the sharp, funny, and sobering take on what’s become of the information age.

Subscribe to Thomas Morton on Substack:

• compostmentous.substack.com (occasional articles and updates)
• Podcast: Borderline Friends (search for the cat and mouse in bow ties)

Potential upcoming work:

• “The Books Nook” for Two Way’s YouTube channel—think Reading Rainbow for adults.

End of summary.