Transcript

Danny (0:07)

So what type of physics do you do?

Matthew Shidagis (0:10)

Well, so my mainstream effort is the search for dark matter. Okay. So I work on the LZ Dark Matter Experiment, which is deployed underground in South Dakota. It's the world's largest and best dark matter experiment. So I'm. I'm an astroparticle physicist.

Danny (0:25)

Okay. Can you explain what that dark, dark matter experiment is and how it works?

Matthew Shidagis (0:29)

Sure, sure. So I should probably start by explaining what dark matter itself is. So it's a hypothetical form of matter that we are very, very sure exists because we have indirect evidence, observational evidence, from astronomy, astrophysics and cosmology, primarily through gravity. So we know there's more matter than we can see, and we know it's not made of the same particles, constituents, as ordinary matter. And so one of the ways to look for dark matter is you actually create particle detectors. You deploy them deep underground. Because the idea is dark matter would pass through the Earth unimpeded, like neutrinos and similar particles, and interact with your detector. So in the LZ detector, we use a gigantic bucket. Basically, it's a thermos. Actually, the formal term is cryostat of liquid xenon. So xenon's very good element because it produces light when external particles interact with it. And so you get flashes of light whenever you have external particles extern radiation interact with the. With the xenon. So we have this deployed about almost a mile underground in South Dakota.

Danny (1:34)

Wow. Are there any images of this we can see? Like, that gives you like a good. How. How big is it?

Matthew Shidagis (1:38)

Absolutely. So it's. It's 10. It's 10 ton scale, liquid xenitecture. It's about. I'm a scientist, so I use meters. So just multiply by three for feet or just pretend I'm saying yards. So it's like one and a half.

Danny (1:50)

Meters similar to yards or meters and.

Matthew Shidagis (1:52)

Yeah, yeah, extremely similar. So it's one and a half meters tall by one and a half meters wide, roughly. But that's inside of a water tank and several other layers of shielding because we want to be sure if we have a detection that it's dark matter, not something else. So it has a lot of layers of shielding. So actually, we've got some images coming up right now. So you can see the diagram from Smithsonian there. There's a diagram of how it works right there. So a particle comes in, produces a flash of light as well as loosen some electrons off of the atom. So we actually get two signals. First, a flash of light, primary flash of light in the liquid and then a secondary FL of light up top from the, from the electrons that got ripped out. So the time between the two signals gives us the depth of the event and the hit pattern of the light gives us the radial position. So we have three dimensional position reconstruction of any incoming particles that interact with the detector.

Summary

Danny Jones Podcast #334

Guest: Dr. Matthew Szydagis (Astroparticle Physicist, Dark Matter Researcher, UAlbany)
Date: September 22, 2025
Main Theme:
A wide-ranging discussion with Dr. Matthew Szydagis about the hunt for dark matter, the controversies and frontiers of physics, the UFO/UAP phenomenon, the boundaries of academic freedom, and the challenges of investigating ancient technology and anomalous historical artifacts.

Episode Overview

Main Topic: Exploring the mysteries of the universe, scientific frontiers like dark matter, quantum computing, and the search for UFO evidence, as well as examining the limits and politics of scientific research and academia.
Purpose: Danny aims to 'get smarter' through probing discussion, challenging accepted narratives, and discussing controversial topics with an expert directly involved in both mainstream and fringe scientific research.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dark Matter and the LZ Experiment (00:10 – 09:21)

Matthew's Field: Astroparticle physicist searching for dark matter, specifically via the LZ Dark Matter Experiment, "the world’s largest and best dark matter experiment" (00:10).
Explanation of Dark Matter: A hypothetical (yet essentially proven by indirect evidence) form of matter, known only by its gravitational effects, that makes up most of the universe’s mass (00:29).
How the Experiment Works:
- Deep underground in SD, uses 10 tons of liquid xenon in a heavily shielded cryostat.
- Detects flashes of light and electrons when particles interact with xenon.
- 3D reconstruction helps identify these rare events (01:34).
Current Results: "None." No direct detection so far; measuring 'zero' better than anyone else (03:32).
Science Talk: "In science, theory means incontrovertible fact... When non-scientists use the word theory, they mean hypothesis." (03:55, Szydagis).

2. Scientific Theories, Evidence & Philosophy (09:21 – 13:14)

Binary vs. Quantum (It from Bit): Matthew rejects the notion that "everything is computation" in a binary sense—quantum mechanics is fundamentally more nuanced.
- "With quantum computing, you have the ability to have indeterminate states." (08:27)
- He emphasizes the value of testability in scientific ideas: “If an idea doesn’t have a testable prediction, then it’s not a scientific theory.” (07:31)
Consciousness & Machines:
- Discussion of the Lucas-Penrose argument (using Gödel's incompleteness theorem): Consciousness cannot be explained by algorithmic computation. "Humans are not machines" (11:10), i.e., cannot be reduced to classical chemical/biological reactions or conventional computation.
- "I'm a pretty big proponent of this argument that humans cannot be reduced to just a classical computer." (13:14)

3. Science in Practice: Limits of Understanding & Experimentation (16:41 – 19:15)

Utility Before Understanding: "You don’t need to understand something to use it... We use quantum mechanics daily, yet nobody can explain... how something can be both a wave and a particle." (16:41)
Practical Use of Discovery: Dark matter—if found—would currently have "absolutely no practical applications," just like the Higgs boson for now (19:15).
Parable: Electricity’s initial uselessness; science value sometimes only apparent centuries later.

4. Scientific Paradigm Shifts, Gatekeeping, & Peer Review (29:09 – 39:10)

Big Bang Theory & Evidence: New cosmological claims are common, but drastic paradigm shifts have become difficult due to cross-checks and a vast body of data.
- "It’s getting harder and harder to be wrong, completely." (34:25)
Gatekeeping & Peer Review:
- Problems in the system, but still viewed as the best available method.
- "Peer review can be abused and manipulated... The solution is to fix the process, not to abandon it." (38:16)
- Examples of both broken peer review and failures in academic publishing, especially in biology and psychology.

5. Academic Freedom, Tenure, and the Stigma of Fringe Research (41:32 – 47:00)

Stigma for Unconventional Research: Matthew has lost/gained funding and faced career setbacks for his work on UFOs/UAPs.
Tenure as Protection: Tenure allows for exploration of controversial subjects but is under threat in several states (44:15). Its removal harms both liberal and conservative academic freedom.

6. Frontiers & Controversies: Dark Matter, Ancient Technology & UFOs (49:05 – 61:44)

Cosmic Pie Chart: Only ~4.6% of the universe is understood and consists of normal matter; the rest is dark matter/energy—"We understand... 4.6% of the universe." (49:05)
Gravity Research & Conspiracy: The idea of 'suppressed' gravity/antigravity research is likely unfounded: "You can’t keep science dark forever because someone else would stumble upon the same idea." (55:34)
Anti-Gravity & Byfield-Brown Effect: Most antigravity ideas don't work; some legitimate phenomena (ion wind, for example) are misunderstood as new physics, but are not.
- On anti-gravity: "We already have anti gravity. We have airplanes, we have magnets." (59:12)
Innovation vs. Engineering: True advances often depend on engineering, not gaps in physics.
- E.g., Airplanes theoretically possible since Newton, but not built until 1700s due to lack of engineering. (65:41)

7. UFOs, UAPs, and Scientific Inquiry (78:25 – 110:06)

How He Got Interested: Ongoing professional relationship with Kevin Knuth; initial skepticism eroded by mounting evidence, media revelations, and personal expertise.
Applying Physics to UFO Research:
- Focus is on radiation detection for UAPs: "What I bring to the table is my knowledge of particle and nuclear physics." (83:23)
- Argues that ionizing radiation as evidence is much harder to hoax than video.
- Multi-modal studies (visual, particle, radiation detection combined) are necessary.
Physical Evidence & Hotspots: Advocates for placing detectors at known 'hotspots' outside inaccessible areas (like nuclear bases).
Academic & Public Resistance: "Most academics... suffer from a lack of curiosity." (104:09)
Historical Stigma: Recalls how phenomena like germs, atoms, meteors, and drift were long dismissed as pseudoscience.
- "Sometimes we don’t give humans enough credit... ancient people were pretty damn smart." (100:08)
Ancient Technology: Discussion of precision ancient artifacts (Baghdad battery, Antikythera device) that defy simplistic historical explanations.

8. Science vs. Pseudoscience (108:14 – 110:50)

Dividing Line: For Szydagis, the difference is openness to evidence and willingness to abandon disproven ideas: "If you test your idea and your idea doesn't work, you abandon it. You don't double down." (108:28)
Misuse of 'Pseudoscience': The label is often manipulated to shut down criticism rather than for legitimate evaluation.

9. Information, Gatekeeping, and the Internet (111:08 – 115:54)

Online Disinformation: The Internet/X (Twitter) is both a tool and a hindrance, amplifying noise and giving authorities new ways to control the narrative.
- "It makes it so much easier for them to keep secrets... so much noise." (111:08)
Personal Position: Matthew avoids social media, focusing on actual scientific work instead of online debates.

10. Hypothetical Aliens, Crashes & the Limits of Knowledge (122:24 – 168:36)

Simulation Hypothesis: Szydagis is openly dismissive; sees it as unfalsifiable and considers it "philosophy, not science." (74:02)
Roswell & UFO Crashes: Odds of capturing a crash on iPhone computed—statistically unlikely given Earth's geography and event frequency (123:28).
Debunking Bob Lazar: Szydagis regards most of Lazar’s claims as scientific nonsense but leaves room for a grain of truth/fog of misinformation/disinformation.
Reverse-engineering Dilemma: Even smart scientists today would likely be unable to reverse-engineer alien technology.
- “Take my phone... to 1890... They would all die of old age having... figured out nothing.” (158:09)
Physical Evidence: Szydagis claims to be publishing a paper using a new material-analysis technique, which may show the US government suppressed evidence about anomalous (possibly non-terrestrial) materials.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[03:55] Matthew: "In science theory means incontrovertible fact. When non-scientists use the word theory, they mean hypothesis."
[09:21] Matthew: “I'm an experimental physicist. If an idea doesn't have a testable prediction, then it's not a scientific theory.”
[13:14] Matthew: “I'm a pretty big proponent of the argument that humans cannot be reduced to just a classical computer.”
[29:09] Matthew: “If you go by every single new paper and every single tweet that comes out, you would have 20 different conflicting views of the universe. That can't all be right.”
[49:05] Matthew: “We understand about 4.6% of the universe. There’s over 95% ... we have no idea what it is.”
[59:12] Matthew (on anti-gravity): "As a physicist, I don't even know what that word is supposed to mean, because to me, we already have anti gravity."
[104:09] Matthew (on academia): "Some scientists suffer from a profound lack of curiosity."
[108:28] Matthew: "If you test your idea and your idea doesn't work, you abandon it. You don't double down. That’s the difference between a scientist and a pseudoscientist."
[158:09] Matthew: "Take my phone... to [the] 1890s. They would all die of old age having... figured out nothing."

Highlighted Segments (with Timestamps)

00:10–09:21: Introduction to dark matter search and LZ experiment.
16:41–19:15: Scientific mysteries in practice; practical utility vs. understanding.
29:09–39:10: Scientific paradigms and peer review controversies.
41:32–47:00: Academic freedom, tenure, and stigma over UFO research.
78:25–110:06: UFO/UAP strategies: New approaches using particle physics, hotspots, and the need for multidisciplinary research.
122:24–168:36: Debunking pseudoscience, theorizing about UFOs and ancient technology, and the future of publishing controversial scientific work.

Tone & Style

Matthew Szydagis mixes rigorous scientific skepticism with open-minded curiosity, delivering candid, sometimes irreverent commentary.
Discussions move fluidly between dense scientific explanation, historical anecdotes, and humorous (sometimes biting) skepticism about both mainstream and fringe claims.
Several moments reveal frustration with scientific orthodoxy, media misrepresentation, and the slow churn of academia when facing controversial or paradigm-shifting ideas.

Final Thoughts & Where to Find More

Szydagis’s Recommendation: For his work, papers, and research, search “Szydagis” on arxiv.org.
Expressed commitment to open-source science, with all findings (especially on anomalous materials) to be made public.

In summary: This episode is a masterclass in critical thinking at the boundary of well-established science and radical new claims. Dr. Szydagis equips listeners to understand not only the search for dark matter but also the intellectual rigor, skepticism, and openness needed to probe the unknown—whether it's in physics, ancient history, or the search for UFOs.

wavePod

#334 - Dark Matter Expert on UFOs, Ancient Technology & The Quantum Brain | Matthew Szydagis