Danny Jones Podcast #340 – Mike Benz: DARPA & USAID are Weaponizing Music to Control Human Behavior

Date: October 13, 2025
Guests: Host: Danny Jones | Guest: Mike Benz

Episode Overview

In this episode, Danny Jones interviews Mike Benz, a leading researcher on government and intelligence community influence operations—particularly focusing on how U.S. agencies use music and cultural influence to shape social dynamics, both abroad and increasingly at home. The conversation ranges from Cold War jazz diplomacy to modern interventions in hip hop and social media, and explores the increasingly blurred lines between national security objectives and cultural manipulation. The tone is fast-paced, densely packed with historical references, and rich with specific examples and names, maintaining a mix of incredulity, dark humor, and relentless documentation.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Music as a Tool for Influence: Historical Roots

[02:17 – 15:24]

• 1940s-50s Jazz Diplomacy: The U.S. State Dept & CIA used prominent Black jazz musicians (e.g. Louis Armstrong) to challenge Soviet messaging in Africa, asserting the West’s racial equality versus Soviet claims of Western racism.
  • “So the State Department took...black jazz musicians...and would fly them as essentially music diplomats to Africa...” – Mike Benz [02:41]
• CIA’s "Congress for Cultural Freedom": A cutout for arts, music, and literary exchanges promoting Western supremacy in classical music, with direct links to later countercultural movements.
• Rock Music as Anti-Authoritarian Export: U.S.-backed concerts (e.g., at the Berlin Wall) promoted anti-Soviet sentiments behind the Iron Curtain.
• Rap & Hip Hop in Modern Regime Change: From Cuba’s San Isidro Collective (2009) to Bangladesh (2024), U.S. agencies (especially USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy) funded and organized music groups to inflame grievances and mobilize protest.
  • “In 2009...they begin funding...a rap collective called the San Ysidro movement, who pens this anthem about taking to the streets...” – Mike Benz [06:31]
  • “The Biden administration at the same time opened up this brand new center called the Global Music Diplomacy Bureau within the State Dept.” – Mike Benz [10:04]

2. Mechanisms & Modern Examples: Sponsorship, NGOs, and Cultural Distribution

[16:54 – 23:41]

• Local to Global Influence Loops: Entities like the Tide Center and major NGOs act as intermediaries, receiving large USAID grants ostensibly for foreign outreach but also funding domestic groups (e.g., BLM, Soros prosecutors, climate action).
  • “They are being paid by USAID to secure formal concrete commitments from foreign governments...then they can leverage that in an in kind way...domestically.” – Mike Benz [18:15]
• Culture as Political Mobilizer: Music transcends divides—serves as rally point for coalition-building, making protest “fun” and low-barrier (“music cuts through all of that...we’re all together, we have one thing in common: we hate this government.” – Mike Benz [14:23])
• Celebrity Case Studies:
  • Dua Lipa: Cited for her Atlantic Council award and the State Department’s deployment of artists of Kosovo/Serbian heritage to push “transitional justice” (locking up political opposition after regime change).
  • Bono & U2: Used for global fundraising, with evidence that proceeds intended for aid often funneled to U.S.-aligned warlords and covert operations instead (e.g., Live Aid for Somalia).
    • “BBC later reported that...Band Aid, 95 million of [100] went to CIA-backed warlords to buy guns.” – Mike Benz [28:26]

3. Contemporary Operations: Social Media, AI Censorship, and U.S. Partners

[35:20 – 77:14]

• Taylor Swift as Example: NATO Psychological Operations Conference (NATO STRATCOM COE, 2019) cited her media reach as the archetype for manufacturing consent via aligned influencers.
  • “The goal is to get people like Taylor Swift to train and spread desired messaging...to win the information war and put down domestic revolts.” – Mike Benz [73:09]
• AI-Powered Influence & Deplatforming (Graphica, Minerva, etc.):
  • Government and contractor labs create network maps—beginning with tracking terror groups, now targeting political speech and “disinformation” domestically.
  • U.S. Army’s counterinsurgency model “shape, clear, hold, build, transition” pairs information shaping/censorship (step 1) and purges (step 2).
• Foreign Law as Censorship Backdoor:
  • EU’s Digital Services Act (DSA) and Digital Markets Act (DMA): Create heavy-handed requirements for social platforms to censor or face massive fines (6% of global revenue).
  • American censorship professionals rely on DSA to “restaff” and reassert narrative control inside the U.S.
    • “If it weren’t for Europe right now...I would feel pretty defeated and despondent in this moment.” – U.S. censorship operative, quoted by Mike Benz [105:08]

4. Platform Legalities and Section 230: The Political Football of Free Speech

[127:10 – 143:23]

• Section 230 – Platform vs. Publisher: The internet’s liability shield is often threatened by both parties (for opposing reasons). Removing 230 could kill small competitors while empowering the largest monopolies to over-censor.
  • “It’s the ultimate Chinese finger trap...You need the trenches: government agencies, NGOs, mercenary censorship firms...They wanted an easy way out.” – Mike Benz [142:10]
• Censorship & Political Reaction: After high-profile incidents (e.g., Charlie Kirk assassination), there is heightened debate about what qualifies as incitement, but Mike stresses the difference between speech and systemic censorship.

5. State-Level, International, and Tech-Driven Threats: Surveillance, Digital ID, and Future Risks

[144:02 – 189:56]

• Federal vs. State vs. International Layers: As federal agencies lose formal powers, blue states (CA, NY, IL, MI) advance censorship via “media literacy” and hate speech laws—watching EU/Brazil for enforcement models.
  • “Norm Eisen—the legal hacker behind the Trump indictments and impeachments—explicitly tells the Blob to move to state-level censorship if the federal tools are cut off.” – Mike Benz [155:19]
• Digital ID as Control Grid (WEF, Ukraine’s DIA App):
  • USAID-developed apps tie together identity, health, voting, and social media—already implemented in Ukraine, with discussions to expand globally.
  • “The World Economic Forum is pushing that...and it’s being backed by people like Larry Ellison...that’s a danger.” – Mike Benz [170:46]
• Surveillance Exported to U.K. & Allies: American-funded “Hate Lab” powers U.K. police real-time arrest algorithms for “hate speech” (12,000 arrests for tweets in 2023).
  • “The U.S. Justice Department funded Hate Lab, which is the AI political radar system that the U.K. police use in London...” – Mike Benz [178:53]

6. Broader Reflections: Resistance, Economic Hardship, and Social Awakening

[183:12 – end]

• Awareness & Backlash: Benz points to the growing resistance among young people, creators, and the newly disaffected; the coalition for free speech is fragile but more robust than a decade ago.
  • “It’s a fragile thing...the coalition has to stay together to keep fighting for it.” – Mike Benz [187:57]
• Elon Musk, ADL, and the Shifting Terrain:
  • Even “official” hate-mapping groups (like ADL’s listing of TPUSA) backtrack when faced with coordinated public pushback.
• Coalition Threats from Within: The greatest risk is not just external opposition, but “internationalist Republicans” and coalition splits which could collapse protection for free expression—especially if digital ID and control-grid technologies take root under bipartisan sponsorship.
  • “When I see Larry Ellison pushing the digital ID thing, that to me is a scarier threat—because that is from within the coalition...” – Mike Benz [188:54]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Music as Influence:
  “...music really sets the vibe for the background of so much of cultural affairs...when it’s all the way down to something like music, you see recurring patterns on how structures of influence are set up.” – Mike Benz [00:50]

• On the San Isidro movement/Cuba:
  “They begin funding...this rap collective called San Isidro, who pens this anthem about taking to the streets to rebel against the government.” – Mike Benz [06:31]

• On NATO Psyops & Taylor Swift:
  “So the US government is funding this [NATO] conference...on how NATO can win the information war...and the goal is to get people like Taylor Swift to train and spread desired messaging.” – Mike Benz [73:09]

• On Graphica & Minerva:
  “Graphica was incubated in the friggin Minerva center of the Pentagon—the Psychological Operations Research center of the Pentagon.” – Mike Benz [63:50]

• On Section 230:
  “It’s the ultimate Chinese finger trap... You just don’t want to have to stare into the sun and confront the enormity of what you’re up against.” – Mike Benz [142:10]

• On EU Censorship Laws / DSA:
  “The penalty for noncompliance is 6% of global annual revenue under this law... So all the revenue YouTube gets in India, the U.S., has to be turned over to the EU.” – Mike Benz [97:03]

• On Digital ID:
  “They tie your digital identity to...they called it a state in a smartphone. And it was developed by USAID...this is basically a tool...to scrub wrongthinkers in Ukraine.” – Mike Benz [165:19]

Highlighted Timestamps

• 1940s-1960s: Jazz/Classical Music Diplomacy: 02:17 – 04:30
• Cuba: San Isidro Movement & Fake Twitter, Zunza Neo: 06:10 – 09:50
• Modern "Music Diplomacy" Bureau & Mobilization Tactics: 12:50 – 15:24
• Dua Lipa, Bangladeshi Rap, USAID/NGO Flow: 19:40 – 23:41
• Taylor Swift & NATO PSYOPS: 35:24 – 77:14 (deep dive, with visual analysis)
• Graphica/Minerva Initiative; Domestic Censorship Tactics: 63:50 – 77:14
• Europe’s Digital Services Act (DSA) & Censorship Regime: 94:50 – 100:17+
• Section 230, Political Theater, and Platform Pressures: 127:10 – 143:23
• State-Level Legislative Threats, Media Literacy, Knight Foundation: 144:02 – 159:02
• Digital ID, DIA App, WEF, Threats from Tech/Bi-partisan Sides: 164:39 – 172:46
• UK’s "Hate Lab", Arrests for Tweets, U.S. Funding: 178:53 – 179:54
• Economic/cultural alienation and youth awakening: 183:12 – 187:51

Conclusion

This episode presents a sweeping, granular, and often disturbing account of how U.S. government, intelligence, and allied entities use everything from pop superstars to artificial intelligence and legal loopholes in foreign jurisdictions to shape culture and suppress dissent. Benz draws a clear line from post-WWII jazz tours to modern digital ID systems and state-level censorship bills, making the case that “music diplomacy” is only the most publicly palatable tool in a long, evolving arsenal. The message is sobering: free speech and open culture are more precarious than they appear, and only constant vigilance—and coalition-building—can restrain an ever-adapting censorship industrial complex.

Find more from Mike Benz:

• X (Twitter): @MikeBenzCyber
• YouTube, IG, Rumble: Linked in show notes by Danny

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