Data Security Decoded

Episode: The Hidden Risk in Your Stack

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Caleb Tolan
Guest: Hayden Smith (CEO, Hunted Labs)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into software supply chain attacks—how they emerge, why open source dependencies introduce major risk, and what proactive steps organizations can take. Host Caleb Tolan and guest Hayden Smith unpack the modern attack landscape, highlight the evolving tactics of malicious actors, and discuss practical strategies for defense and resilience. With critical insights into topic areas such as threat hunting, AI’s impact on attacks and defense, and the importance of inventory and monitoring, this episode is a must-listen for cybersecurity and IT professionals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ubiquity and Risks of Open Source Software

• Open Source Powers Everything

  • "Open source software really powers everything we know and love today... about 70, 80%, sometimes higher, is all composed of open source software." (Hayden, 03:43)
  • Open source enables rapid development and iterative improvements but presents significant security and compliance variability.

• Varied Maintenance Standards

  • Each open source component has different security and compliance practices, creating inconsistency and risk within enterprise software stacks.
  • "Their standard on security and on compliance may not be the same as your organization." (Hayden, 04:37)

• Irreplaceable but Risky

  • "There's no argument that we can do away with open source. That's just not realistic. ... It's about managing the risk around that as you choose to adopt it." (Hayden, 05:28)

2. Anatomy of a Supply Chain Attack

• Attackers Exploit Trust

  • "Ironically, the best way to attack open source is to contribute." (Hayden, 07:16)
  • Attackers create fake accounts and contribute malware-laden packages, exploiting the community’s reliance on trust and reputation.

• Real-World Example: Indonesian Foods Campaign

  • Attackers published an estimated 86,000 fake packages to NPM, overwhelming the ecosystem.
  • "A new fake package full of malware being published every seven seconds… within that package, it will actually source more fake packages." (Hayden, 08:39)
  • The attack’s cascading nature spreads risk exponentially.

• Importance of Account Vetting

  • Verifying both code quality and the contributor's legitimacy is essential.
  • "With the onset of AI now, it's really easy to go and scale and create 30 fake accounts at once." (Hayden, 10:20)

3. The Challenge of Scale in Open Source Security

• Moderator-Like Maintainers
  • Projects use maintainers as stewards (similar to Reddit moderators), but few projects have sufficient coverage to monitor all threats.
  • "It's really hard to scale that across the entirety of the open source ecosystem, where you're dealing with millions of packages." (Hayden, 11:31)
  • Ultimately, the burden falls on enterprises to vet their dependencies.

4. Threat Hunting and AI’s Role in Defense

• Proactive Threat Hunting

  • "Threat hunting, using threat intelligence to basically dive in and inspect software before you use it... I think of it as a really proactive security measure." (Hayden, 13:13)
  • Enterprises should focus threat hunting on their true dependency set rather than "boiling the ocean."

• AI-Driven Detection and Analysis

  • Using AI/LLM models to interrogate code can reveal hidden or undisclosed vulnerabilities.
  • "You could use large language models to churn over the code and say, what am I missing?... looking for anything hidden ... during a manual check or a static check." (Hayden, 15:00)

• Example: RUNC Vulnerabilities

  • Case of an engineer withholding vulnerabilities at a manager’s request highlights the risk of unknown threats in critical dependencies.

5. Recovery Strategies & Contingency Planning

• Typical Recovery Steps

  • Neutralize malware and prevent further ingestion by rolling back to safe versions and pinning dependencies.
  • "If you pull down malware, you have to neutralize that right first... Often involves a version rollback." (Hayden, 16:42)

• Complexity Grows with Scale

  • Attacks affecting thousands of components (like Indonesian Foods) make incident response and recovery significantly more difficult.
  • Continuous inventory and monitoring are essential for efficient recovery.

• Fundamental Best Practices

  • "Doing things like contingency planning, having awareness. If you rely on 10 critical things in order for your product to work, you better know what they are." (Hayden, 18:52)
  • Regular monitoring, SBOM (Software Bill of Materials) management, and vulnerability scanning are crucial.

6. Proactive Risk Reduction Beyond the Basics

• Continuous Monitoring is Crucial

  • "Knowing your dependencies. Do you have a complete inventory of all the software that you use, whether proprietary or open source?" (Hayden, 21:14)

• Dependency Management

  • Pinning dependencies and tracking upstream maintenance activity help anticipate and mitigate risk.
  • Regularly interrogate code for every update, especially from new or unfamiliar contributors.

• Threat Intelligence Integration

  • Leverage dynamic threat intel to maintain situational awareness of risks in key dependencies.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Difficulty of Eliminating Open Source:

  • "There's no argument that we can do away with open source. That's just not realistic." (Hayden, 05:28)

• On the Modern Attacker’s Playbook:

  • "The best way to attack open source is to contribute." (Hayden, 07:16)

• On Maintaining Awareness:

  • "If you rely on 10 critical things in order for your product to work, you better know what they are. You don't want to find out when the attack is already unfolding." (Hayden, 18:52)

• On the Limits of Security Practices:

  • "Recovery is part of that contingency plan... these are very standard cybersecurity things." (Hayden, 18:30)

Suggested Actions and Practical Advice

• Inventory Everything:

  • Keep a complete, up-to-date list of all software and dependencies in use.

• Pin Your Dependencies:

  • Avoid auto-updating to protect against poisoned packages.

• Continuously Monitor:

  • Regularly check dependency health, maintenance frequency, and new contributors.

• Leverage Threat Intelligence:

  • Integrate external intelligence feeds to catch emerging threats.

• Implement Threat Hunting:

  • Use advanced tools (including AI-powered analysis) to proactively seek hidden vulnerabilities.

• Prioritize Recovery Readiness:

  • Have clear rollback and recovery processes for quick containment of incidents.

Resource Links

• Learn more about Hunted Labs and their research/product: [hunted labs.com]
• The Hunting Ground blog for investigative supply chain security articles.
• Reference to "Open Source Malware" project for current open-source supply chain threats.

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:43 | Hayden on the pervasiveness and risk inherent in open source dependency. | | 07:16 | "The best way to attack open source is to contribute." (Supply chain attack entry point) | | 08:39 | The Indonesian Foods campaign as a supply chain attack case study. | | 13:13 | The role of threat hunting and the rise of AI-driven detection. | | 15:00 | Using LLMs to find hidden vulnerabilities in critical dependencies. | | 16:42 | Recovery strategies and the necessity of contingency planning. | | 18:52 | Importance of knowing your critical dependencies and maintaining situational awareness. | | 21:14 | Continuous monitoring and inventory as the foundation for resilience. |

Conclusion

This episode conveys that the risk in your software stack isn’t just theoretical or confined to governments and infrastructure—it's a real, immediate threat for every organization using open source. Overcoming this ongoing challenge requires relentless inventory, monitoring, and proactive incident response. Hayden Smith’s actionable advice underscores the balance between speed and security, and highlights the absolute necessity for smarter, continuous vigilance in the modern supply chain.