Podcast Summary

Podcast: Data-Smart City Pod
Episode: AI Agents and Peak Academy: Brian Elms on Empowering Government Workers
Date: January 21, 2026
Host: Stephen Goldsmith (A)
Guest: Brian Elms, CEO and Founder, Change Agents Training; Founding Director, Denver's Peak Academy (B)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Stephen Goldsmith interviews Brian Elms, a national leader in government innovation and the driving force behind Denver’s Peak Academy. The discussion explores how the Peak Academy empowers government workers, the role of generative AI in transforming public sector performance management, and ways to unlock productivity at every level of local government. The conversation is energetic, practical, and focused on real-world impacts. Notably, Elms shares insights on fostering agency among frontline workers, rethinking management, leveraging AI, and tackling the bane of “useless work.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Impact of Peak Academy

• Peak Academy was created during Denver’s 2011 recession to innovate service delivery by investing directly in city employees’ problem-solving skills.

• Core Approach:

  • Train employees in process improvement
  • Support and coach staff through challenges
  • Encourage employees (the real subject matter experts) to identify and implement changes

• Results:

  • Over $50 million saved in government expenditures
  • Model replicated by 60+ governments
  • Empowerment leads to “unlocking potential” among public servants

• Quote:

  • "A lot of employees have the ability to do really cool things if we can unlock their potential." (B, 03:25)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Elms highlights the sheer fun and pride city workers experience when they’re given the power to improve – it "creates a flywheel effect" of innovation. (05:23)

2. Empowerment from the Street to Middle Management

• Street-Level Problem Solving:

  • Workers like road crew or park staff are the experts; their frontline knowledge is essential for effective change.

  • Quote:

    • “Innovation is caught, it's not necessarily taught. Where excitement is caught, it's not taught.” (B, 05:59)

• Middle Management Resistance:

  • Middle managers face dual pressure from above and below and can be a bottleneck for innovation.

  • Strategies include training managers to create scoreboards, provide coaching, and shift from micromanaging toward a “coach, command, and counsel” model.

  • Quote:

    • “Mid level manager is the hardest place to be in government and it can also be the place that stifles a lot of innovation.” (B, 08:39)

3. Structure of Peak Academy Training

• Training Model:
  • Introductory training: ~3-4 hours
  • Intensive “Black Belt” training: previously 40 hours, now condensed into 3 days
  • Ongoing follow-up sessions
• Focus:
  • Practical skills, applied directly to service improvement
  • Builds continuous improvement culture

4. Modern Performance Management & Generative AI

• Challenges with Traditional Models:

  • Earlier methods relied on slow, feedback-heavy processes and manual data analysis (e.g., Excel 101).
  • Gap in knowing departmental processes and organizational “DNA.”

• Generative AI Opportunities:

  • Rapid, scalable business process mapping (example: 48 processes mapped in 3 days vs. a year previously).

  • Real-time insights allow for faster innovation cycles and broader staff access to data.

  • Quotes:

    • “Now you can do that with generative AI … your ability to create performance understanding is going to skyrocket.” (B, 11:26)
    • “I don't think you have to teach them how to do the data entry anymore or even the data analysis. You can use AI to do that with you and for you.” (B, 13:29)

• What Changes:

  • Shift from teaching basic data literacy to training staff to use tools and to critically evaluate AI outputs.

  • Importance of recognizing AI hallucinations (i.e., made-up or incorrect outputs).

  • Quote:

    • “You have to be able to recognize when generative AI is making things up. That's the real trick.” (B, 15:25)

5. Integrating Human and AI Agents

• Human-Centered Innovation:

  • Training focuses on empowering workers to recognize and act upon opportunities for improvement.
  • Cultivating a shared language for identifying, articulating, and solving problems accelerates progress.

• Teaching Workers to Use AI:

  • Meet frontline staff where they are—start with simple tools before introducing complex AI tools.

  • Engage staff by demonstrating the value of data and encouraging iterative problem-solving.

  • Quote:

    • “What we do is we try to get people on the same vernacular for attacking a similar challenge. If I can do that, our ability to move faster through the problem solving exercise is exponential.” (B, 16:49)

  • Example: From mechanic to head of parks—growing internal talent through empowerment and support. (B, 19:25)

6. Practical Advice for Leaders and Managers

• Three Core Recommendations:

  1. Learn: Stay curious and seek to understand how current processes really work.
  2. Let Your Team Fail: Give staff room to make mistakes and support them as they learn.
  3. Continuous Improvement: Always look for ways to reduce steps and eliminate “useless work.”
  • Quotes:
    • “Teach them where to find the useless work, rid the useless work, and then we can start doing, ‘How are we performing?’” (B, 21:56)
    • “Useless work sucks the joy out of your job.” (B, 22:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Innovation is caught, it's not necessarily taught.” (B, 05:59)
• “Mid level manager is the hardest place to be in government and it can also be the place that stifles a lot of innovation.” (B, 08:39)
• “You have to be able to recognize when generative AI is making things up. That's the real trick.” (B, 15:25)
• “Teach them where to find the useless work, rid the useless work, and then we can start doing, ‘How are we performing?’” (B, 21:56)
• “Useless work sucks the joy out of your job.” (B, 22:55)
• “What motivates most public employees is not the money, it’s the ability to serve. And so what you've done is made it possible for people to serve better.” (A, 23:45)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05 — Introduction and opening context
• 02:24 — What is Peak Academy and why it matters
• 05:23 — Empowering frontline city workers
• 07:14 — Addressing middle management resistance
• 09:26 — Structure of training programs
• 10:59 — Applying Peak Academy methods to AI/STAT programs
• 11:26 — How generative AI radically speeds up process mapping
• 13:05 — Shifting performance management with AI
• 14:54 — Data literacy in a world of AI-generated insights
• 16:22 — Training human agents alongside AI agents
• 18:41 — Practical strategies to empower frontline workers
• 21:05 — Three things every leader should do
• 22:55 — The problem with useless work
• 23:45 — Closing reflections and motivation in government

Tone and Style

The episode is pragmatic, positive, and grounded in real-world experience. Both host and guest use vivid anecdotes, approachable language, and are clearly passionate about public service innovation. The conversation flows naturally, with laughter, awe, and respect evident throughout.