Bryan Kohberger changes his mind. Son wants mother's killer back in court. Plus, Missing in America.

Summary

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Dateline NBC: True Crime Weekly

Episode Date: July 30, 2026
Host: Andrea Canning
Main Topics:

• Bryan Kohberger’s petition to withdraw his guilty plea in the Idaho quadruple murder case
• Kansas: A son pushes for renewed legal accountability for his mother’s killer
• Trial updates: Lindsey Clancy in Massachusetts & TikTok singer David Anthony Burke
• "Missing in America" season preview with Josh Mankiewicz

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Dateline NBC: True Crime Weekly dives into significant current developments across several high-profile cases—including a dramatic reversal in the University of Idaho murder case involving Bryan Kohberger, a family’s pursuit of justice in Kansas, emotional trial moments in Massachusetts and California, and a preview of the new season of "Missing in America" focusing on unresolved disappearances and advocacy.

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Segment 1: Idaho Quadruple Murder—Bryan Kohberger Changes His Mind

(00:58–09:32)

Discussion Points:

• Bryan Kohberger, convicted of the 2022 murders of four University of Idaho students, has filed a petition to withdraw his guilty plea, alleging coercion and claims of innocence.
• Andrea Canning provides the backdrop and key details of the original crime and trial.
• Shane Bishop (Dateline producer and Kohberger case expert) joins to unpack the new petition, evidence, legal intricacies, and family reactions.

Key Insights

• Original Evidence (03:50):

  • Detectives focused on a drop of blood on a knife sheath left near Madison Mogan’s body, with DNA and genetic genealogy linking Kohberger.
  • Kohberger’s search history indicated he’d purchased a K-bar knife and sheath months before the murders.

• Sentencing and Family Statements (04:08):

  • Victims’ families gave powerful statements at sentencing, describing Kohberger as “a hollow vessel” who “chose evil” (04:28).
  • Quote:

    “He is a hollow vessel, something less than human...He chose destruction. He chose evil.” —Victim’s family statement (04:28)

• Petition Details (05:18):

  • Kohberger claims he was pressured by his defense team, coerced with “elaborate lies” about conditions on death row versus a life sentence.
  • He asserts his lawyers promised freedoms (contact, movement, prison work) if he pled—benefits not granted in his current protective custody.
  • Alleges defense failed to disclose “exculpatory” evidence—a “clump of unknown hair” in Ethan Chapin’s hands, possibly indicating multiple perpetrators (06:15).
  • This “hair” surfaced publicly via a book by a former FBI agent, not directly from case files.
  • Shane:

    “This hair has been variously described as a clump, a wisp, a strand, or even just as debris...Turvey claims that this is all proof that more than one killer was involved.” (06:25)

• Legal Prospects (07:06):

  • Andrea highlights how rare it is to undo a guilty plea.
  • Idaho law requires proving a “manifest injustice,” such as involuntary plea or inadequate counsel.
  • Defense attorney Ann Taylor was noted for aggressive defense actions; another veteran defense lawyer commented,

    “They pulled out all the stops. They did everything that could have been done on Kohberger’s behalf.” —Unnamed Idaho defense lawyer (07:59)

• Family and Community Reactions (08:42):

  • Only Kaylee Gonsalves’s family released a statement, expressing their wish for a death penalty trial, belief in the evidence, and dismay at Kohberger’s attempt to undo the plea.
  • Quote:

    “He hates that life. He wants another chance to roll the dice.” —Gonsalves family statement (08:42)

• Next Steps (08:12):

  • Judge Stephen Hippler will decide on an evidentiary hearing; any outcome is likely months or years away.

---

Segment 2: Kansas—Son Wanting Mother’s Killer Back in Court

(11:11–18:51)

Discussion Points:

• The murder of Monica McKay and the conviction of her estranged husband, Brian McKay (a former Marine).
• Keith Greenberg (Dateline producer) provides case background and covers recent court developments.

Key Insights

• Case Background (12:10):

  • Monica, a nurse-turned-administrator, and Brian married in 2009, experienced marital turbulence, and were divorcing at the time of the murder.
  • Monica’s son, Ryan, found her dead in the bathtub on Thanksgiving Day 2024.

• Evidence and Motive (13:03–15:21):

  • Signs of abrasions on Monica’s body; house not disturbed. She did not use that particular bathtub.
  • Monica had taken out a restraining order, fearing Brian was technologically surveilling her (bugging her house, listening via Alexa).
  • Surveillance showed a red Jeep matching Brian’s near Monica’s home.
  • Alleged motive: Brian stood to gain from Monica’s accidental death insurance (15:21).
  • Defense suggested Monica's new romantic interest might be relevant, but law enforcement “looked at every possibility, and once again, it always came back to Brian.” —Keith Greenberg (16:24)

• Trial and Sentencing (16:55–17:46):

  • Monica’s family and supporters filled the courtroom.
  • Her son, Tyler:

    “Not only did she save countless lives, she brought life into the world. The world truly was robbed of someone giving to it.” (17:10)

  • Defense argued for leniency due to Brian’s military service; the judge imposed a 50-to-life sentence.

• Ongoing Civil Action (17:54):

  • Monica’s son Ryan has filed a wrongful death suit, with a bench trial set for September 23 (18:40).
  • The focus is on the trauma and suffering inflicted during the months of stalking prior to the murder.

---

Segment 3: Dateline Roundup—Major Case Updates

(21:09–27:52)

Host: Andrea Canning
Guest: Sue Simpson (Dateline producer)

Case 1: Massachusetts—Lindsey Clancy Trial

• Lindsey Clancy, former nurse, accused of murdering her three children and attempting suicide.
• Prosecution argues premeditation:

  "[Lindsey] acted intentionally, rationally, and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal—to kill." —Andrea Canning, summarizing prosecution (21:57)

• Defense claims postpartum psychosis, over-medication, and desperation. Attorney Kevin Reddington:

  “This is not a righteous prosecution. They’re looking for every single piece of evidence...for some ridiculous concept that she wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she didn’t want to be a mother anymore.” (22:57)

• Powerful testimony from ex-husband Patrick Clancy, who expressed empathy for Lindsey’s struggle and described his grief and their children.

Case 2: California—David Anthony Burke (“TikTok Singer” Murder Case)

• Latest:
  • David, 19, accused of killing 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez (remains found in Burke’s Tesla).
  • Preliminary hearing presented texts from Celeste referencing threats and a pregnancy.

    “I will end your career.” —Celeste, text to David (26:46)

  • Defense argued this was part of their established communication.
  • Judge rules there’s enough evidence for trial; no set date, next court appearance August 30.

---

Segment 4: Missing in America Season Preview

(27:56–35:10)

Host: Andrea Canning
Guest: Josh Mankiewicz

• Focused on the 2017 disappearance of Ashley Loring HeavyRunner from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation. Ashley was 20 and pregnant; her sister Kimberly has relentlessly pursued answers.
• Josh Mankiewicz:

  “We could do 3,000 and we still wouldn’t be scratching the surface...This series is just trying to bring some answers to people.” (29:08)

• Systemic problems: Families often feel law enforcement isn’t doing enough; tribal law enforcement lacks resources and timely response.
• Advocacy impact: Kimberly Loring's testimony at a Senate hearing led to some new policies—a cold case missing persons office within the Bureau of Indian Affairs, though advocates say this isn’t nearly sufficient.
• Quote from Dr. Hayley Amiso (forensic scientist and Ashley’s friend):

  “Tribal law enforcement doesn’t have their own testing system. They don’t have their own crime labs.” (33:35)

Preview of Other Cases this Season

• Disappearance of Broadway performer Zelig Williams
• A confidential informant who turned up dead—did cooperation with law enforcement contribute?

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kohberger’s reversal (08:42):

  “He hates that life. He wants another chance to roll the dice.” —Kaylee Gonsalves’s family

• On Monica McKay’s impact (17:10):

  “She brought life into the world. The world truly was robbed of someone giving to it.” —Tyler, Monica’s son

• On the scale of missing persons (29:08):

  “We could do 3,000 and we still wouldn’t be scratching the surface...All these missing cases.” —Josh Mankiewicz

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Idaho/Kohberger Segment: 00:58–09:32
• Monica McKay Case (Kansas): 11:11–18:51
• Dateline Roundup—Trial Updates: 21:09–27:52
• Missing in America Season Preview: 27:56–35:10

---

Tone & Style

The episode is analytical but compassionate, with respect for victims and an aim to foster understanding of both legal developments and deep family trauma. Discussion is thorough yet accessible. Emotional testimony—particularly from victims’ families—grounds the reporting in real, human stakes.

---

Conclusion

This episode presents a panoramic view of ongoing true crime and justice developments, linking high-profile reversals and emotional courtroom moments to the persistent, often-overlooked stories of the missing. It underscores both the technical and emotional complexities of seeking justice—whether in the courtroom, through civil suits, or tireless advocacy.

Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

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[Andrea Canning]

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Good morning, everybody. It's the start of another workday for the DATELINE team. So this story is developing. It's right outside of Dallas. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. I am very curious about the motive.

[Shane Bishop]

He has real doubts about it himself.

[Andrea Canning]

They check her safe and that gun is gone. Welcome to DATELINE, True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's July 30th, and here's what's on our docket. In Kansas, a former Marine was convicted at trial of stalking his estranged wife and then strangling her. Now her son wants to put him on trial again.

[Keith Greenberg]

The son has pointed out that Brian was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace.

[Andrea Canning]

In DATELINE Roundup, a judge weighs in on the prosecution's case against TikTok singer David. And emotions run high at the trial of the former labor and delivery nurse accused of murdering her three children. As her ex husband takes the stand,

[Sue Simpson]

you could see how emotional it was for him. You know, he had, he seemed to have trouble breathing at times.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, Josh Mankiewicz will be here with a preview of his latest season of Missing in America and why you should listen.

If somebody hears this, thinks that maybe I know something about this, it could make all the difference.

But before all that, we're heading to Idaho for a stunning development in the quadruple murder case that gripped and terrified the nation. It has been a little over a year since Bryan Kohberger stood before a judge and pleaded guilty to the murders of four University of Idaho students. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin and Zanna Kernodle.

Did you on November 13, 2022, enter

[Shane Bishop]

the residence at 1122 King Road in

[Andrea Canning]

Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit

[Shane Bishop]

the felony crime of murder.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. In return for his plea, the prosecutor agreed to drop the death penalty and Kohberger was sentenced to serve four consecutive life sentences at a maximum security prison just outside of Boise. The judge had these final words for him.

The time has now come to end

Mr. Kohberger's 15 minutes of fame.

It's time that he be consigned to

the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration. Now it appears Kohberger has changed his mind. This week he filed a petition with the court asking essentially for a do over. He says he was coerced into the guilty plea, that he is innocent and he wants a trial. Here to help us understand what this could mean for the case and the families is DATELINE producer Shane Bishop, who has covered this story from the beginning. Welcome back to the podcast, Shane.

You bet.

[Shane Bishop]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey, Shane. Before we get into what Coburger is claiming in this petition, let's rewind the clock. We what evidence, Shane, did investigators say they had to zero in on Coburger?

[Shane Bishop]

Well, the key piece of evidence was a drop of blood found on a knife sheath that detectives said the killer left near the body of Madison Mogan. Analysts then used DNA and genetic genealogy to link Kohberger to the knife sheath. And a search of Kohberger's computer record showed that he'd purchased a K bar knife and a sheath just months before the murders.

[Andrea Canning]

Kohberger pleaded guilty just a few weeks before trial. The victim's families had mixed feelings about that. We heard some emotional testimony at his sentencing. Let's take a listen. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human, A body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction.

He chose evil.

He feels nothing.

You'll sit with it long after this is over.

That is your sentence. And it was written on the wall long before you ever pled guilty. You didn't win.

You just exposed yourself as the coward you are.

Then fast forward a year, here comes this petition. How much of a surprise was this to you, Shane?

[Shane Bishop]

Well, I think it came as a complete shock. It certainly did to me. Although in my experience, it's hardly uncommon for convicted killers to arrive at a state prison to serve their life sentences. And before long realize that forever is a long time, especially in a situation like Coburger finds himself in because he's in protective custody, but because of his notoriety. And he's locked down 23 hours a day.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I didn't even realize he was in protective Custody. Shane, walk us through this petition that he filed.

[Shane Bishop]

I think Coburger's most startling claims have to be that he is actually innocent and that he was pressured by his defense attorneys to falsely confess to these murders. Coburger writes in his petition that his counsel told what he calls elaborate lies to him about life on death row and promised him that a life sentence would mean a number of things, including immediate contact, visits, freedom of movement inside the prison, and employment. None of those are allowed when you're in the restrictive housing or protective custody like he is now. And the last thing Kohberger claims is that his attorneys failed to disclose what he calls exculpatory evidence.

[Andrea Canning]

So just to be clear, Shane, exculpatory means evidence that Kohberger is saying could prove his innocence. Does he go into detail about what this evidence is that he's talking about?

[Shane Bishop]

He does. He mentions in his petition that his attorneys didn't tell him about, quote, clumps of unknown hair found in Ethan Chapin's hands. End quote.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so we really first heard about this hair from a book written by a former FBI agent who didn't work on this case. It's called Broken Plea. Shane, break it all down for us.

[Shane Bishop]

The author says he interviewed a defense expert named Brent Turvey who believes that this hair Coburger is referring to, and I should be clear, this hair has been variously described as a clump, a wisp, a strand, or even just as debris found in Ethan's hands. Turvey claims that this is all proof that more than one killer was involved.

[Andrea Canning]

When the book came out, Kohberger's former defense team pushed back, telling the Idaho Statesman that Turvey was speaking on topics outside of his area of expertise. We know from other cases, Shane, that we've covered that it takes a lot to undo a guilty plea like this. It's extremely rare, right? Almost unheard of.

[Shane Bishop]

Yeah. Andrea. Idaho criminal rule 33C says that once a person is convicted, a petitioner has to prove a manifest injustice occurred to set aside a plea after sentencing. Maybe the plea wasn't voluntary. Maybe it wasn't entered into knowingly or intelligently. Or the petitioner can claim there was inadequate representation.

[Andrea Canning]

Seems like CO Burger has maybe been reading some law books in prison. Does he mention ineffective assistance of counsel at all in this petition? That he wasn't represented properly, which seems to be the crux of this, right?

[Shane Bishop]

Yeah, that's exactly what he argued. But one veteran Idaho defense lawyer I spoke to believes it's going to be tough sledding for him. Lead attorney Ann Taylor and her team filed dozens and dozens of motions on co Burger's behalf. And that defense attorney told me, quote, they pulled out all the stops. They did everything that could have been done on Kohberger's behalf.

[Andrea Canning]

We should say we've reached out to Kohberger's former defense attorney, Ann Taylor to see what she thinks of all this. And at the time we're taping this, she has not responded. So, Shane, what is next for Kohberger now that he has filed this?

[Shane Bishop]

The original judge who took the plea, Stephen Hippler, will look at this post conviction petition. He'll decide, yes, Bryan Kohberger will have an evidentiary hearing or no, he won't. If the judge says no, Kohberger can then take it to Idaho's Supreme Court. But it seems like any answer on this is months or more likely years away.

[Andrea Canning]

How have the families reacted to all of this now? You know, they, they're finally, they were getting some peace. He pled guilty and now it's all being brought up again.

[Shane Bishop]

Haley Gonzalez's family is the only one to put out a statement. And their statement read in part, quote, we would have preferred a death penalty trial. We believe fully in the evidence. Instead, Brian Coburger received exactly what he asked for. A deal that spared his life. Know this. He hates that life. He wants another chance to roll the dice.

[Andrea Canning]

I, I would imagine if Coburger did somehow manage to get a new trial, that they would go for the death penalty. Given that he's reneging on this deal or trying to. Maybe. Maybe Kaylee's family. It's what they want.

[Shane Bishop]

They've always wanted the death penalty very badly. And I think there's no doubt the prosecution would seek it.

[Andrea Canning]

It's such a heartbreaking case, Shane. And I know you're staying on it. You've been on it for years. So. So we look forward to hearing from you again about how this proceeds.

[Shane Bishop]

Yeah, I'll stay on it. Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, a former Marine stands trial in Kansas for stalking and murdering his estranged wife. But even after his conviction, her son says it's not the end of the story. In the US there's a break in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near Simplisafe, home security steps up. Stop.

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On Thanksgiving Day 2024, Ryan Woolam planned to have lunch with his mother, Monica McKay. But when he showed up at her house, he found her dead in the bathtub. Investigators immediately suspected foul play. Three months later, they arrested Monica's estranged husband, Brian McKay, accusing him of beating her and then drowning her. Bryan maintained his innocence and his defense argued investigators pinned her death on the wrong man. But after a nine day trial, a jury convicted him. Last week, Bryan walked into the Shawnee County Courthouse in Kansas for sentencing and came face to face with Monica's sons. It turns out they are not done pursuing justice for their mom. DATELINE producer Keith Greenberg was in the courtroom and is here now to bring us up to speed. Keith, thanks for being here.

[Keith Greenberg]

Thank you, Andrea. I'm always happy to be here.

[Andrea Canning]

Keith, let's start with some background on this couple, Brian and Monica McKay. What was their story?

[Keith Greenberg]

Monica McKay started out as a nurse, then she worked her way up to becoming a hospital administrator. Brian is a Marine veteran. He served in combat in Iraq and he also has a master's degree in electrical engineering. They were married in 2009. They had a blended family. She had two sons, he had a daughter. But there were always kind of hiccups in the marriage and they divorced at one point. Then they reconciled and remarried. And at the time of the murder, they were in the midst of another divorce.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so this time she was. She was done with him. She wanted a divorce, and they were no longer living together. And, Keith, it was Monica's son Ryan who found her body. What did investigators think when they arrived at the scene?

[Keith Greenberg]

So investigators come by and there she is in a half filled bathtub. And although there's no visible signs of a struggle in the house, there are some signs of abrasions on her. The other thing that Ryan was quick to point out was that his mother didn't even use that bathtub.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Keith, investigators, of course, wanted to talk to her estranged husband, Brian. What did he tell them?

[Keith Greenberg]

Yes, you know, after Brian moved out, he had purchased a new property and he was clearing away brush, you know, trying to make this property into a place to live. And that's what he said he was doing part of that day. And he said he hadn't seen Monica any dealings with her since she filed a restraining order against him one month before she died.

[Andrea Canning]

Tell us about that.

[Keith Greenberg]

She had a very bad feeling. As I mentioned, Brian has a master's in electrical engineering. He's technically very savvy. And she had the distinct impression that he was spying on her. According to the arrest affidavit, there was one instance where she was talking with a friend on the phone, and Brian texted Monica and was repeating some of the things she said. And he wrot quote, the alexa is in private. So he was using her alexa to listen to her.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And Monica's son Ryan told detectives he found covert recording devices, cameras, microphones hidden in her home.

[Sue Simpson]

He.

[Andrea Canning]

He believed her son believed they were hidden by Brian, and that led to this protection from stalking order.

[Keith Greenberg]

I mean, her friends and family all felt the same thing.

[Andrea Canning]

Keith, investigators found something else that was suspicious. A red Jeep was caught on security camera foot near Monica's home with similar characteristics to Brian's car.

[Keith Greenberg]

Yes, that's true.

[Andrea Canning]

So in February 2025, Brian McKay was arrested and faced several charges, including first degree murder and stalking. He pleaded not guilty and headed to trial in May of this year. You spoke, Keith, to the district attorney, Michael Kage. What did he suggest was Brian's motive?

[Keith Greenberg]

He said he wanted money. He wasn't doing too well financially, but he, you know, he stood to profit quite a bit from accidental death insurance, and so he tried to create the guise of an accidental death.

[Andrea Canning]

What is the defense's argument against all of these allegations?

[Keith Greenberg]

Well, interestingly, Monica was starting to date again. She had met a guy named Eric Lessig, and Monica and Eric went on their first date 12 days before Monica was murdered, and almost immediately, she gave him a key to her home. And so, you know, the defense's contention was if you investigate a little further, you might find out that there might have been some things going on involving Monica McKay that didn't involve her husband. Yeah. I spoke with the DA and he emphasized to me that law enforcement did its due diligence. They looked at every possibility, and once again, it always came back to Brian.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense also argued that the timeline didn't add up when we're talking about that red Jeep that the prosecution believed was Brian showing up at Monica's house.

[Keith Greenberg]

Yes. The defense goes, hey, you look at the time. The red Jeep was there. Nobody could have committed this type of elaborate murder in such a short period of time.

[Andrea Canning]

The jury, Keith, was not convinced. Brian was found guilty. And that brings us to his sentencing. You were there in Kansas last week. Give us some color on what you saw in the courtroom.

[Keith Greenberg]

Her side of the courtroom was packed. They. They were just workers, friends, family members. She was very, very well liked. And, you know, the son spoke, Tyler, the older son, he mentioned his mother was a nurse. And he said not only did she save countless lives, she brought life into the world. There was this feeling like the world truly was robbed of someone who was giving to it and not taking from it.

[Andrea Canning]

The jud threw the book at Brian.

[Keith Greenberg]

So the defense asked for 25 to life, and they spoke about his military service and how he had never been in trouble before, but it didn't matter. The judge sent 50 to life, and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever, you know, see a day of freedom.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And Brian is not done. He is facing another legal battle. Monica's son Ryan has filed a wrongful death suit against him.

[Keith Greenberg]

I went to a hearing in the wrongful death case, and the judge made it clear a jury of his peers found him guilty of murdering Monica. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is how much the family is entitled to. Ryan Walum, the son, has pointed out that in those weeks where Bryan was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace, he feels that should be taken into consideration.

[Andrea Canning]

It will be a bench trial with a judge, and it will be like a real trial with witnesses. And so he's going through this again. When is this trial set to get underway?

[Keith Greenberg]

The trial is set to begin on September 23rd.

[Andrea Canning]

Keith, thank you so much for bringing us this case, and we'll keep an eye out for this civil trial set to begin.

[Keith Greenberg]

Great. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's Time for DATELINE Roundup. More details from the prosecution's case against accused murderer and TikTok star singer David and Lindsay Clancy's ex husband testifies about her behavior in the days and hours before she killed their three children. Plus Josh Mankiewicz on the haunting disappearance of a young woman from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana.

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21 sponsored by Chumba Casino. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Sue, good to see you.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

First off, Massachusetts, where The trial of 35 year old Lindsey Clancy is underway. Prosecutors allege Clancy, a former labor and delivery nurse, murdered her three young children and then jumped out of a second story window. Her defense says she was suffering from some kind of psychotic break. And Lindsey has pleaded not guilty by Reason of insanity. On Monday, we heard opening statements. Sue, tell us what we learned from the prosecution through their opening statement.

[Sue Simpson]

Well, Andrea, the prosecutor, Jennifer Sprague, asked the jury to focus on Lindsey and what she did. She said that Lindsey had been interacting normally with other people in the hours before the murders. The prosecutor was trying to undercut the idea that Lindsay was somehow mentally unstable.

[Andrea Canning]

This was a woman who acted intentionally,

rationally, and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal, to kill Sue. This has to be tricky for the prosecution because so many people are aware now of postpartum depression, and we've seen a lot of cases that end tragically this way. Did the prosecution offer up an alleged motive for the murders?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, prosecutors said Lindsey didn't like her life and that she wanted to escape by killing herself, and that meant taking the kids with her.

[Andrea Canning]

What did Lindsay's defense attorney have to say in his opening statements?

[Sue Simpson]

Kevin Reddington started by describing Lindsay as a doting mother, someone who adored her children. He described Lindsay's growing struggles with her mental health and her determined but futile efforts to get help. He indicated that she was over medicated, and he said it drove her into psychosis. And he didn't hide his scorn for the prosecution's alleged motive.

[Andrea Canning]

This is not a righteous prosecution. They're looking for every single piece of evidence that they can to show some ridiculous concept that she wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she didn't want to be a mother anymore.

So one of the elements of this case that has captured a lot of attention as well is that Lindsey's ex husband, Patrick Clancy, is standing by her and is telling people, you know, not to judge her. We got to hear from him. We heard initially he was going to be a defense witness, but here he was for the prosecution. What did the prosecution want the jury to hear from him on this first day of the trial?

[Sue Simpson]

The most important thing, Andrea, that they wanted from him was to hear his description of his children. And you could see how emotional it was for him. You know, he seemed to have trouble breathing at times.

[Shane Bishop]

Cora was into princesses, And she had a lot of friends.

[Andrea Canning]

What kind of things was Dawson interested in? Using the firefighters and trucks?

[Shane Bishop]

Alan, he was just a happy baby.

[Sue Simpson]

That pain and that grief really brought home to the jury what was lost that day. The prosecution also focused on Lindsay's behavior leading up to the murders. They asked Patrick to remember some fun family outings. You know, going to a water park, going to the beach. And it all sounded so normal. Not what you might expect from somebody suffering Such a mental health crisis. And the prosecutor showed Patrick a bag of Lindsay's pill bottles and got Patrick to admit that he didn't know if Lindsay even took all the drugs she'd been prescribed.

[Andrea Canning]

This has to be so hard for this man. My goodness. And we should say that Patrick was very clear that Lindsay had been struggling, and he pushed back on the prosecutor at times. Lindsey switched providers?

[Keith Greenberg]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

And why did she do that?

[Shane Bishop]

Because whatever she was doing, it wasn't working.

[Andrea Canning]

She was just.

[Shane Bishop]

She was only getting worse.

[Sue Simpson]

He testified that Lindsay seemed desperate and that she wasn't sleeping and she was talking about suicide. And at one point, she even talked about harming the kids. But he testified Lindsay seemed better right before the killings.

[Andrea Canning]

Who else can we expect to testify at this point?

[Sue Simpson]

The prosecution and defense both said that they would be calling several expert witnesses. Also, the defense has said we're going to hear from a hospital worker who was in the room when Lindsey woke up from her coma and heard her first words.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, we will stay on top of that story as this trial continues. Next up, news out of California in the case of singer David, who was famous on TikTok. His lead, David Anthony Burke. He is accused of killing 14 year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Her remains were found in the trunk of David's Tesla last September. David has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him, including sexual abuse of a minor and mutilation of human remains. He has been in court in downtown Los Angeles for a preliminary hearing that we talked about on the podcast last week. Sue, what is the latest?

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, the hearing went into this Monday as prosecutors continued to call witnesses. As you mentioned, one of the charges against David is sexual abuse of a minor. They showed some text exchanges between David and Celeste, referencing Celeste having at least one abortion during their alleged relationship. And at the time Celeste was 13, David was 19.

[Andrea Canning]

Sue, there were also some text messages from around the time prosecutors alleged David killed Celeste.

[Sue Simpson]

Right. Andrea, in the preliminary hearing, a detective presented text from April 22, 2025. Celeste appeared to be confronting David about his interactions with another girl, and she texted him, I will end your career the next day. April 23rd is when prosecutors say David lured Celeste to his house and killed her.

[Andrea Canning]

How did David's defense handle those text messages?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, David's defense made it clear that Celeste had sent other threatening texts to him during their relationship, even saying at one point that she would, quote, mutilate him. They were implying that that's just the way she talked to David.

[Andrea Canning]

The hearing wrapped up on Monday afternoon. What did the judge decide as to going forward with all of this?

[Sue Simpson]

The judge ruled that the prosecution had presented enough evidence to send this case to trial. There's no date yet, but David's next court appearance is scheduled for August30.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. So we will follow that as we get closer to David's first degree murder trial. Sue, thank you for these updates.

[Sue Simpson]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final story this week, we have a very special guest, my friend and colleague, Josh Mankiewicz. He is here to tell us about a case he's been working on for the latest season of our podcast series Dateline. Missing in America. The 2017 disappearance of Ashley Loring. Heavy runner, Ashley was 20 years old and pregnant when she went missing from the Blackfeet Indian reservation in Montana. Since then, her sister Kimberly has been a driving force in the search for her. Josh recently sat down with Kimberly. I can look at her picture and feel totally broken. It feels like it just happened. I continuously think of my sister every day.

Her disappearance didn't just change her life. It changed yours, too, in a huge way.

Oh, yes.

[Shane Bishop]

Yes, completely.

[Andrea Canning]

Ashley's story is one of six new cases Josh is digging into, and one that I know is important to tell. Josh, welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you.

Good to see you. By the way, good to hear your voice. Um, so season five of Missing in America premiered this week, and you have been doing this series for four years now. What motivates you and your team to tell these stories that we know can sometimes feel hopeless for people?

Look, I mean, you know, we're doing six episodes a season, so if this is the fifth season, then we've done, what, 30, right? 30 missing persons cases. I mean, we could do 3,000 and we still wouldn't be scratching the surface of the problem of missing people in this country. And that's why we're doing it, is because this is like chipping away at the sort of Rock of Gibraltar that is all. All these missing cases. But the one thing they have in common is that these families are desperate for answers. And so this series is just trying to bring some answers to people because if somebody hears this, thinks that maybe I know something about this or maybe I know somebody who knows something about this, it could make all the difference.

Yes. And we definitely want people to say something if they do know something. Ashley's sister Kimberly told you she immediately suspected foul play with Ashley's disappearance. Why did she think that?

First of all, they were very close. Kimberly had come back from a trip overseas and. And was expecting to get together with her sister and didn't hear from her. Sort of all the things that normally happen in a lot of missing persons cases, which is the people you love don't hear from you, they get worried and they go to police. Yeah.

And Kimberly says law enforcement stopped searching a few days after the family reported Ashley missing. They say the case stalled. And like so many family members in our DATELINE stories, Josh, Kimberly kept the search going.

She totally did. And this, you know, sadly, this cuts across all lines. I mean, there is almost no one I know who has a missing family member who believes the police are working hard enough on that case. And I understand why that is. And sometimes police are working hard, but they don't appear to be or they don't talk to the family about that. In this case, Kimberly had learned a couple of things about her sister that weren't known to a lot of people. One is that she had begun a relationship with a much older man and was almost twice as old as she was. And the other thing was that Ashley had become pregnant. Not by that guy, by somebody else. And. And those were two investigative avenues that she was sort of urging law enforcement to go down. And they did, although not as quickly as Kimberly wanted.

I know you and your team reached out to a number of agencies to see where the investigation stands today. It's been nearly 10 years. But you didn't get a whole lot of answers, right?

No, I mean, a lot of them gave us an answer that we hear in a lot of Dateline stories, which is we cannot respond to questions about what is an open investigation because we're still working on this. You know, that generally tends to make families feel as if they're being put off. But, you know, the Blackfeet Tribal Police, the Bureau of Indian affairs, the FBI, none of them wanted to talk with us. The FBI gave us a very long statement about how they take missing persons cases very seriously. All of that is included in this segment of the podcast.

Well, and we know the FBI is notoriously tight lipped on all cases before they're resolved. I did a story several years ago called the Secrets of Spirit Lake about the murder of a young woman. Her name was Carla Yellowbird. It was her aunt, Lyssa Yellowbird Chase, that broke the case wide open, or at least helped break the case open. She has been a real advocate pushing this as much as she can, missing and murdered indigenous women with the federal government. And I know that Ashley's sister Kimberly has done the same. She testified at a U.S. senate hearing in 2018 to address the Crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous. Josh, what came out of Kimberly's advocacy?

One of the things that's changed is the. The Bureau of Indian affairs has a new policy for the way that. That missing persons reports are responded to. And there's a cold case missing persons office called the Missing and Murdered Unit. Look, advocates for the missing problem in the indigenous community would tell you that it's better than nothing, but it's not a lot better than nothing. That much more needs to be done, and searches and investigations need to begin sooner rather than later. And having a cold case unit is a good idea, but the best thing would be if there weren't so many cold cases.

One thing I loved about this story is that Ashley's disappearance inspired her close friend Hayley Omiso to pursue a career in forensics because of what happened to Ashley. Let's take a listen to your conversation with Haley. One main thing that I see is lack of evidence, trying to get justice for your family member, but there's no evidence there. Tribal law enforcement doesn't have their own testing system. They don't have their own crime labs.

Talking with Dr. Hayley Amiso was very impressive because she knew Ashley, I think, from high school. I think they had competed against each other on different sports teams. And she wants a crime lab lab that sort of just works in the Native American space and therefore wouldn't have to share resources with all the other cases everywhere else. Because, as you know, the numbers of Native American missing cases related to the number of Native Americans is just a stunning percentage. So having, like, a dedicated crime lab and much more sort of on the ground forensics, dealing with cases like that right away, that could end up making a huge difference. And so, hats off to Dr. Haley Amiso.

Josh, what else can we look forward to as your series rolls out?

I mean, this is the second, you know, we have our first story, which is available now, is that of Zelig Williams, a Broadway dancer and singer who inexplicably vanished one day. And we have other stories coming up, too, one in which someone was a confidential informant for law enforcement. And the question is, did that get her killed?

Oh, that sounds like an interesting one. Josh, thank you for reporting on all of these important stories.

Thank you.

Make sure to catch up with episode one of Dateline, Missing in America. Wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop every Monday, and for early access and ad free listening, subscribe to Dateline Premium. That's it for this week's episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Coming up this Friday on Dateline. I have a brand new story for you about a case that actually started out as a Missing in America episode four years ago. The case of Michigan farmer and entrepreneur Dee Warner, who disappeared only to be found in one of the most, most unbelievable locations I've ever seen. This image from the X ray was going to change everything.

It changed everything.

Watch the Day D disappeared this Friday at 10, 9 Central on NBC. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Croth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Kuriloff production and fact checking help by Yana Johnson. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

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