Accused killer's voice on a 911 call in Michigan. A hike in paradise gone terribly wrong. And Karen Read's retrial begins.

Summary

Dateline NBC: Accused Killer's Voice on a 911 Call in Michigan, A Hike in Paradise Gone Terribly Wrong, and Karen Read's Retrial Begins Release Date: April 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Dateline NBC, host Andrea Canning delves into a series of compelling true-crime stories that span from heart-wrenching retrials to a chilling attempted murder in paradise. The episode intricately weaves through multiple high-stakes cases, offering listeners a deep dive into the complexities of each situation, backed by firsthand accounts and expert insights.

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1. Retrial of Linda K. Sturmer: A Michigan Case Reopened

The episode opens with a detailed examination of the retrial of Linda K. Sturmer, a woman accused of murdering her husband, Todd Sturmer, fifteen years after the initial incident. Originally convicted for setting their home on fire while Todd was asleep and subsequently running him over with the family van, Linda was released after serving eight years of a life sentence. A federal appeals court now mandates her retrial due to allegations of ineffective counsel and prosecutorial misconduct.

Key Testimonies and Evidence:

• Neighbor Testimonies: Multiple neighbors provided crucial insights. Dr. Richard Moussali, a dentist, and his sons arrived at the scene to find Todd suffering from severe burns. Dr. Moussali attempted CPR, stating, “[04:11] One of the neighbors, Dr. Richard Moussali, he's a dentist. He and his sons went over and when they got there, they saw Todd. He was unconscious, laying on his back. All hair was gone, his skin was burned. He was not responsive. So Dr. Moussali did mouth to mouth on Todd Sturmer, trying to resuscitate him.”

• 911 Call: A neighbor's 911 call captured Linda's distressed voice. As Sergey Evonen notes, “[05:04] It was kind of bone chilling to hear that almost unnatural sound of Linda wailing. It sounded like almost a fire truck. It sounds so primal.”

• Medical Examiner's Testimony: The prosecution presented the medical examiner who confirmed detecting an accelerant, a claim the defense contested, questioning the reliability after fifteen years. “[07:25] The medical examiner took the stand, and she testified that she smelled an accelerant.”

Defense Challenges:

Linda's attorney aggressively cross-examined the pathologist, challenging the connection between the accelerant and the burn injuries, ultimately labeling the manner of death as undetermined.

Jury's Perspective:

Sergey highlighted the jury's skepticism during the trial, “[08:32] The jury asked a lot of questions about toxicology testing... The doctor's testimony did not confirm all of it.”

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2. Attempted Murder in Paradise: The Gerhard Koenig Case in Hawaii

Shifting scenes to the picturesque trails of Hawaii, Andrea Canning narrates the harrowing account of Gerhard Koenig, a 46-year-old medical doctor accused of attempting to murder his wife, Ariel Koenig, on the Palipuka Trail in Oahu.

Incident Details:

• Attack Description: Ariel detailed the brutal attack, stating, “[11:25] He struck her with a rock ten times on the head, grabbed her hair and smashed her face into the ground.”

• Rescue and Arrest: Two hikers intervened, with one capturing the struggle on their phone. Gerhard was apprehended after a manhunt and now faces charges of attempted second-degree murder, held without bail.

Relationship Dynamics:

Mahealani Richardson from KHNL provides context on the Koenigs' relationship, noting that they appeared to be a loving couple with careers in engineering and medicine. However, court documents reveal underlying tensions, including accusations of Ariel having an affair and Gerhard's extreme jealousy.

Expert Insights:

Domestic violence experts express shock over the case, emphasizing the betrayal of trust given Gerhard's professional standing as a doctor. “[16:53] What makes this so shocking is that this is involving a doctor, and doctors take this oath to protect people.”

Legal Proceedings:

Gerhard is set for an arraignment and plea shortly, with ongoing hearings planned for the temporary restraining order. Ariel has sought legal protection following the incident, highlighting a pattern of alleged abuse.

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3. Dateline Roundup: High-Profile Trials and Legal Battles

In the Dateline Roundup, Andrea Canning touches upon several other significant cases:

• Karen Reed's Retrial in Massachusetts: Karen Reed faces her second trial for the alleged murder of her police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe. With heightened security and a challenging jury selection process—where three-quarters of prospective jurors had preconceived notions about the case—the trial is poised to be lengthy and contentious.

• Lori Valo Daybell's Trial in Arizona: Lori Valo Daybell, also known as Mommy Doomsday, is on trial for conspiracy to murder. The prosecution alleges her involvement in the death of her brother, Alex Cox, who killed her fourth husband, Charles Vallow, citing self-defense. Lori's decision to represent herself has led to intense courtroom exchanges, particularly regarding her defense strategies.

• Sean “Diddy” Combs’ Lawsuit Dismissal: A lawsuit against music mogul Sean “Diddy” Combs alleging sexual assault was dismissed when the plaintiff failed to come forward, despite initial permissions to remain anonymous. This dismissal raises questions about the viability of future anonymous claims against Combs.

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4. Advocacy and Awareness: Training Law Enforcement on Autism Interactions

A poignant segment features former New Jersey Police Captain Jerry Turning, who has dedicated his post-retirement life to training first responders on interacting with individuals on the autism spectrum. Inspired by his son, Eric, who has autism, Jerry addresses the gaps in police training regarding neurodiverse individuals.

Training Insights:

• Understanding Behavior: Jerry emphasizes that behaviors exhibited by individuals with autism are often misinterpreted as signs of intoxication or evasiveness. “[28:35] Understanding that this stuff is hard. A lot of these behaviors... will directly mimic things that we've been taught in a police academy to show.”

• Communication Strategies: He advises caretakers to inform law enforcement about the individual's condition proactively, whether through verbal communication or identification technologies like ID bracelets.

• Real-Life Applications: Anna Turning shares the case of Sebastian Rogers, a 15-year-old autistic boy who went missing. The search teams played his favorite song, “Eye of the Tiger,” to soothe and guide him, exemplifying effective strategies taught by Jerry.

Personal Impact:

Jerry reflects on his dual role as a police officer and a father, stating, “[27:10] He has been an amazing eye-opening experience for us.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline NBC masterfully navigates through intricate true-crime narratives, blending courtroom drama with personal advocacy. From the reopened trials in Michigan and Massachusetts to the harrowing attempted murder in Hawaii, each story underscores the profound human emotions and legal complexities involved. Additionally, the discussion on autism awareness and law enforcement training highlights the show's commitment to addressing broader societal issues beyond individual cases.

For listeners seeking a deep and nuanced exploration of true-crime stories, this episode serves as a compelling testament to Dateline NBC's enduring dedication to uncovering and understanding the multifaceted nature of crime and its impact on communities.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sergey Evonen on the 911 Call: “[05:05] It was kind of bone chilling to hear that almost unnatural sound of Linda wailing. It sounded like almost a fire truck.”

• Karen Reed's Attorney on Self-Representation: “[23:22] I've done everything in my power with the limitations that I am an incarcerated person at this maximum security prison jail.”

• Jerry Turning on Law Enforcement Training: “[28:35] Understanding that this stuff is hard. A lot of these behaviors... will directly mimic things that we've been taught in a police academy to show.”

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Resources:

If you or someone you know is experiencing relationship abuse, visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE, text START to 88788, or go to thehotline.org.

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Upcoming on Dateline NBC:

Tune in next Friday for a two-hour special episode, "Deadly Obsession," where a grieving daughter takes matters into her own hands to uncover the truth behind her parents' mysterious deaths.

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Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson, with contributions from Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, Liz Brown Kurloff, Veronica Mazeca, Rick Kwan, and original music by Jesse McGinty.

Transcript

[Jenna Bush Hager]

Hey, everyone, it's Jenna Bush Hager from TODAY with Jenna and Friends, reminding you to check out my podcast, Open Book With Jenna. In this week's episode, I sit down with Heather McMahon to talk about her rise in comedy, how losing her dad gave her a new perspective on life, and how comedy has been a form of healing. You can listen to the full conversation now by searching Open Book with Jenna wherever you get your podcasts.

[Keith Morrison]

A true crime story never really ends, even when a case is closed. The journey, the journey for those left behind is just beginning.

[Traci]

Since our DATELINE story aired, Traci has harnessed her outrage into a mission.

[Andrea Canning]

I had no other option. I had to do something, catch up.

[Keith Morrison]

With families, friends and investigators on our bonus series, after the Verdict. Ordinary people facing extraordinary circumstances with strength and courage.

[Sergey Evonen]

It does just change your life.

[Andrea Canning]

But speaking up for these issues helps me keep going.

[Keith Morrison]

To listen to after the Verdict, subscribe to DATELINE Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify [e-mail].

[Mahealani Richardson]

Good morning.

[Andrea Canning]

Good morning. Dateline's morning meeting is getting underway. I see everybody on let's get Going. Our editorial team is catching up on the latest developments and cases we've been watching around the country.

[Jerry Turning]

It's a classic feud between these two prominent rappers.

[Mahealani Richardson]

There's a lot of misdirect.

[Andrea Canning]

And mystery prosecutor says we're gonna bring her actual sons on. We're saying you killed our father. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's April 3rd, and here's what's on our docket. At a popular hiking trail in Hawaii, investigators say a doctor allegedly tried to push his wife off a cliff and then he hit her on the head with a rock.

[Anna Turning]

She said that she bit him to try to fight him off.

[Andrea Canning]

Other stories we've got our eyes on Lori Valo. Daybell, AKA Mommy Doomsday, is on trial again. This time, she's the defendant and her own defense attorney. Music mogul Sean Combs gets some good news from a judge. And supporters gather outside the courthouse for Karen Reid's retrial.

[Mahealani Richardson]

The scene here in Dedham is still kind of wild.

[Andrea Canning]

And later, April is Autism Awareness Month. A retired police captain tells us what he wants law enforcement to know.

[Jerry Turning]

I realized very quickly that what I had to learn about raising a son on the spectrum was directly correlating to what I should have known as a police officer before all that.

[Andrea Canning]

We're heading back to a Michigan courtroom where the prosecution came out swinging at the retrial of a woman accused of murdering her husband. Fifteen years ago, Linda K. Sturmer was convicted of killing her husband, Todd Sturmer, by setting their house on fire while he was asleep in his La Z Boy and then running him over with the family van once he ran outside. But Linda was released from prison after serving only eight years of a life sentence. A federal appeals court ruled that she deserved a retrial because of ineffective counsel and prosecutorial misconduct. And that began last week. The prosecution is calling just about every neighbor who showed up to the scene that day. A dentist who performed cpr, the friend who noticed blood on the bumper of Linda's van, and the next door neighbor who called 911. Dateline producer Sergey Evonen has been in the courtroom in Pawpaw, Michigan, and he joins us now with the latest. Hey, Sergey.

[Sergey Evonen]

Hi, Andrea. Good to be here.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So set the scene for us. The Sturmers lived in a pretty rural area. Linda boarded horses. The neighbors houses weren't all that close to each other, right?

[Sergey Evonen]

That's right. It's a pretty close knit community. But during testimony, none of the neighbors said that they could see each other's houses. They could see the smoke and some saw the flames. And one neighbor testified that he and his sons heard the sound that they couldn't really place. They didn't know what it was. So they got in the car and then when they got to the spot, they realized it was Linda wailing.

[Andrea Canning]

What did the neighbors say they saw when they got there?

[Sergey Evonen]

One of the neighbors, Dr. Richard Moussali, he's a dentist. He and his sons went over and when they got there, they saw Todd. He was unconscious, laying on his back. All hair was gone, his skin was burned. He was not responsive. So Dr. Moussali did mouth to mouth on Todd Sturmer, trying to resuscitate him.

[Andrea Canning]

One of the neighbors called 911.

[Sergey Evonen]

Yeah. So the first people on the scene were Connie Calhoun and her boyfriend at the time, Mike Matheny. They lived next door. And when they arrived, Mike told Connie to stay back because he didn't want her to see the horror of the scene. And then when he came back to her, he said, Connie, you got to call 911. And the prosecution played that call during Mike's testimony.

[Anna Turning]

We got the fire department on the way there.

[Sergey Evonen]

Ok. Is that Linda in the background?

[Jerry Turning]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Sergey Evonen]

It was kind of bone chilling to hear that almost unnatural sound of Linda wailing. It sounded like almost a fire truck. It sounds so primal.

[Andrea Canning]

Linda's friend Kim Thompson also testified.

[Sergey Evonen]

So Kim's testimony Was that Linda was wearing socks, didn't have any shoes on, so she tried to get her clothes. And her focus was Linda's comfort. She asked Linda if there's anything they could do. And Linda asked them to take care of the dog. And so Kim followed the dog as it was running around, and that's when they discovered the van. And when they approached the van, they kind of froze because they immediately saw blood on the bumper.

[Anna Turning]

I remember my husband and I looked.

[Andrea Canning]

At each other and we both said the same thing.

[Anna Turning]

Something's not right.

[Sergey Evonen]

They never addressed it with her, but they. They were kind of shocked, and I backed right off.

[Anna Turning]

I. I did not want to be there.

[Andrea Canning]

Did they. Did they talk to Linda in the days that followed?

[Sergey Evonen]

They never asked Linda about the blood specifically, but she said that Linda's explanation for what happened that day kept changing. And Kim's husband took the stand as well. The deputy had asked us to guard that van and make sure that nobody sprayed it with water.

[Andrea Canning]

And why was that?

[Sergey Evonen]

I guess there was evidence on it. You could see blood on it.

[Andrea Canning]

So the prosecution used those witnesses to paint the picture of a chaotic scene and bring in evidence that Linda ran over Todd with the van, leaving him with lacerations on his head. And they believe that would have happened after Linda poured an accelerant on Todd and lit him on fire. They called the medical examiner to testify to that.

[Sergey Evonen]

They sure did. The medical examiner took the stand, and she testified that she smelled an accelerant. And the defense jumped right on her and said, it's been so many years ago, you distinctly remember that odor. How many calls have you been on? And the ME Was very firm. And she said, I did smell that gasoline on Todd's body. But Dr. Moussali, who gave Todd mouth to mouth resuscitation, said that he didn't smell any accelerant on him.

[Andrea Canning]

Linda's defense attorney was equally aggressive when he cross examined the pathologist, Dr. Michael Markey. @ one point, he got him to concede that Todd's head wounds didn't kill him.

[Sergey Evonen]

Yeah, he did. Those four lacerations, we didn't have any brain damage, did we? No, there was no obvious injury to the brain. The band impact had no connection with the death. The death was caused by thermal burn injuries. Fair? Yes. I believe his death was caused by the thermal injuries.

[Keith Morrison]

You're not qualified.

[Sergey Evonen]

And you can't say that an accelerant, gasoline, or anything else had a connection to his burn injuries. Fair. Right. I don't do accelerant testing. That's out of out of the realm of what I do. And finally, the manner of death is undetermined.

[Andrea Canning]

Fair.

[Sergey Evonen]

That was my opinion at the time. Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

As we've talked about on the podcast before, in some states, juries can ask questions right after a witness testifies. Michigan is one of those states, Sergey. And on Friday, the jury had a lot of questions for the pathologist who did the autopsy. Did you get a sense? Did those questions reveal anything about what the jury might be thinking?

[Sergey Evonen]

100%. The jury asked a lot of questions about toxicology testing. The prosecution has raised the theory that Linda drugged Todd before she started the fire. But the testing showed no drugs in his blood. They asked questions about the lacerations. Could those lacerations have been the result of him tumbling down the stairs? But the doctor said he couldn't exclude that. And the doctor's testimony did not confirm, you know, the prosecution theory. At least it didn't confirm all of it.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, Sergei, thank you for keeping us up to date on this very interesting trial. We will check back in with you soon.

[Sergey Evonen]

Thank you for having me on the podcast.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, in Hawaii, a scenic overlook turned into an alleged crime scene. Investigators say a doctor tried to push his wife over a cliff. What did she tell the police about what happened?

[Traci]

Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto Insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote Today, restrictions apply.

[Unknown]

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[Traci]

There's always something new to learn, whether.

[Andrea Canning]

A news event or a new recipe.

[Traci]

And when we step through the morning together, it makes the rest of the day better.

[Unknown]

We come here to make the most of today. We are family. We are today.

[Keith Morrison]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin. Weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Andrea Canning]

The Palipuka Trail In Oahu is one of the Hawaiian island's popular destinations for adventurers. The trail's scenic overlooks might just be the perfect place to take a selfie. Though its jagged cliffs could be perilous to inexperienced hikers, last week it became the site of what investigators say was something far more treacherous. Attempted murder. Gerhard Koenig, a 46 year old doctor, is accused of attempting to kill his wife Ariel on the trail. Investigators say he tried to push her off a cliff and they say when that didn't work, he attacked her.

[Anna Turning]

His wife says he struck her with a rock ten times on the head, grabbed her hair and smashed her face into the ground.

[Andrea Canning]

Koenig was taken into custody after a manhunt last week and indicted for attempted second degree murder. He has not yet entered a plea and his attorney did not respond to a request for comment. Mahealani Richardson, who is the evening anchor for Hawaii News. Now KHNL joins us to break down this story of the ultimate trouble in paradise. Welcome to the podcast Aloha, Andrea. I love hearing aloha. Okay, so to start, this couple, they seem to have it all. They were married in 2018. They had two children. They had lived in Pittsburgh in an affluent area and then moved to Hawaii. What do we know about the relationship between Gerhardt and Ariel Koenig?

[Anna Turning]

We've talked to a few people who knew the Koenigs. She's reportedly a nuclear engineer. He is a medical doctor. Everyone said they appeared to be a loving couple. We had talked to a housekeeper who's also a friend of hers, and she had just been to their house a week before the incident. She said that Dr. Koenig was normally quiet and she thought it was because he's just a very professional person and he was a very busy person. But she said that they were a loving family.

[Unknown]

Never, never in a million years would I think that this would happen. Shock because I cannot. It's hard to fathom. It's hard to grasp the severity of this tragic incident. I just. I can't.

[Andrea Canning]

How did they end up. Gerhard and Ariel wind up on this trail in the first place?

[Anna Turning]

They live on the island of Maui and according to the court documents, he had planned a getaway for her birthday on Oahu.

[Andrea Canning]

So he's the one who suggested correct this hike on the trail.

[Anna Turning]

That's right. According to the court documents, it was his idea to go on this hike at the Polipuka Trail. And if you can imagine these hikes, this is not a simple walk in the park. It is an unmanaged trail. It is very rocky, it is very slippery, depending on the weather conditions. So they went to the edge of the cliff and they took a selfie. And she was feeling dizzy, according to her accounts, and so she wanted to move away. And it's during that time that she claims that he was angry at her. And he said, and I'm going to use her language verbatim, she said, get back over here. I'm so sick of you.

[Andrea Canning]

So in these court documents, Ariel says that things got physical.

[Anna Turning]

That's right. She says that he grabbed her. He grabbed her hair and hit her with a rock 10 times. He threw her into the bushes. And then she says that he had a syringe and tried to inject her with some sort of unknown liquid. And then she said that she bit him to try to fight him off. I mean, at one point it sounded like he was on top of her, she was on top of him. And so there was a struggle.

[Andrea Canning]

And thankfully, two women were hiking and saw some of this and actually called 911.

[Anna Turning]

That's right. So according to the police records, one of them ran up ahead and saw Dr. Koenig on top of his wife in the middle of the struggle. And it's during that time that when this other hiker had come upon her, that's when he stopped and he was able to get away. And according to the temporary restraining order, he has an adult son. We also believe that he lives on Maui as well. He had called the son and FaceTimed and said that he had tried to kill his wife and that he wanted to commit suicide by jumping off the side of the cliff.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my gosh, that's awful. Ariel applied for a restraining order soon after this happened. Did she say anything that gave police a possible motive, you know, for what she's alleging he did on the trail?

[Anna Turning]

According to Ariel, he accused her of having an affair, which fueled what she called extreme jealousy. And she claims that he was attempting to control and monitor her communications. We also learned that they had been seeing a therapist for both individual and couples therapy. But in terms of what the court documents had said, it appears that this one incident was not a one time thing. She accused him in her petition to the court of sexual assault and assault for months leading up to this incident. I spoke to the head of the Domestic Violence Action center on how domestic violence experts are reacting to this case. One thing that they said was that what makes this so shocking is that this is involving a doctor, and doctors take this oath to protect people. So that he allegedly tried to kill his wife. Is so shocking when doctors are supposed to be held to the highest ethical standards.

[Andrea Canning]

The restraining order we talked about was granted and he is currently being held at a jail in Oahu. His initially his bail was set at 5 million, but after his indictment for attempted murder, he's now being held without bail. What can we expect from this next?

[Anna Turning]

Well, he is going to be going for an arraignment and plea. So that's coming up in just a few days. And later on in April, there will be another hearing for the temporary restraining order. And so this is just the beginning of the court process.

[Andrea Canning]

All right. Thank you so much for bringing this story to us. So sad. But thank goodness Ariel is okay.

[Anna Turning]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

If you or someone you know is experiencing relationship abuse, a good place to go for advice and resources is the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE 1-800-799-7233 or text START to 88788 or go to thehotline.org and we'll put that information in the episode description. Up next, it's time for DATELINE roundup. We've got the latest on Lori Valo Debel's trial in Arizona on a charge of conspiracy to commit murder. This is her second trial. And then over to Boston, where Karen Reed is also on her second trial, this one a retrial for the alleged murder of her police officer boyfriend and why an anonymous lawsuit against music mogul Sean Diddy Combs was dropped. Plus, a retired police captain talks about his tips for law enforcement on how officers should be interacting with people on the autism spectrum.

[Traci]

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[Sergey Evonen]

Now they had the final answer. Or did they?

[Keith Morrison]

Nothing has more suspense than a DATELINE mystery. And no one wants to wait to find out what happens next. That's why everyone needs DATELINE Premium, where listening is always ad free. You get the whole story and nothing but the story.

[Sergey Evonen]

Or do you?

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, actually, you do. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Dateline premium dot com.

[Jenna Bush Hager]

Hey, everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarra, Kristin Hanna, Ego Wodom and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast, Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcasts.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining us for this week's DATELINE roundup is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson. Hey, sue, thanks for coming back on the podcast. You're in Dedham, Massachusetts, for Karen Reid again.

[Mahealani Richardson]

I am. I am. I'm here for the start of jury selection in Karen Reed's second trial. You'll remember she's charged with hitting and killing her police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her SUV a little over three years ago. Now she's pleaded not guilty. And the scene here in Dedham is still kind of wild. You know, the judge, it's the same judge. Beverly Kanoni has set an even bigger buffer zone around the courthouse to keep the crowd.

[Andrea Canning]

We also remember your soccer chair. Are you having to show up at midnight again just to get a seat?

[Mahealani Richardson]

No. This time there's something called a randomizer, actually, which is selecting all the reporters in the tiny courtroom.

[Andrea Canning]

And would you say that there are as many Karen Reid supporters as from the first trial? Does it feel smaller now or the same?

[Mahealani Richardson]

When jury selection started on Tuesday, I was very early in the morning and their metal barricades up all around the court, more than in the past. I saw Dedham police going by on bicycles and, of course, their Massachusetts state troopers stationed in front of the court as they were last time. But it feels like there's more security. I saw really small groups of protesters. They were waving huge flags and they were wearing pink.

[Andrea Canning]

How in the world do they pick a jury with everyone knowing about this case now?

[Mahealani Richardson]

Oh, boy, it is going to be a challenge. And people are saying, the judge is saying it could take two to three weeks. So on the first day, almost 100 prospective jurors were brought into the courtroom. And here's why it's going to be a problem. Three quarters of them said that they'd heard about the case, with many of those people saying that they'd already formed an opinion about it. And that's not, of course, what either side wants to hear. One more thing I want to say, having watched the proceedings on Tuesday when jury selection started, it's really interesting to see how deeply involved Karen is in working on the jury selection process. She is going through the questionnaires with the attorneys. She's sometimes at sidebar with them as they grill prospective jurors.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm not surprised at all. Is Alan Jackson There, her LA attorney he is.

[Mahealani Richardson]

And they've also added a New York attorney and they actually added an alternate juror from the first trial, somebody who came forward, who's an attorney and she's working with the team. So she was going through questionnaires Tuesday as well with Karen.

[Andrea Canning]

Fascinating. DATELINE producers are also following Lori Valo Daybell's trial in Arizona. This is about how Laurie's brother, Alex Cox, killed Lori's fourth husband, Charles Vallow, in an argument and claimed self defense. But Alex has since died and Maricopa county is alleging that it wasn't self defense and that Lori helped plan it. So she is facing a conspiracy charge. And they've seated a jury there, Sue.

[Mahealani Richardson]

Yeah, they have. They winnowed down about 100 prospective jurors to 13 men and three women. So that will be the 12 and four alternates. They filled out online questionnaires. You know, what have you heard about the case?

[Andrea Canning]

She's rolling the dice here by representing herself. Yeah.

[Mahealani Richardson]

And so that led to a pretty intense moment in court earlier this week when they were still working their way through pretrial motions. Lori's trying to have a speedy trial, but the prosecution has said it's too speedy, that they don't have enough information about what she's planned for her defense. And they actually said she's trying to conduct a trial by ambush. And Lori kind of took offense to that.

[Anna Turning]

How is the defense trial by ambush when they have interviewed every single one of these witnesses?

[Mahealani Richardson]

The judge was trying to get her to tell him about the relevancy of each of her witnesses, and they had this exchange.

[Anna Turning]

I've done everything in my power with the limitations that I am an incarcerated person at this maximum security prison jail.

[Sergey Evonen]

So when you say and I shouldn't.

[Anna Turning]

Be able to represent myself because of that fact, that that negates my constitutional right.

[Sergey Evonen]

I didn't say that. All right. I said that sometimes there are reasons.

[Jerry Turning]

To not go forward to trial as fast as you want.

[Andrea Canning]

And openings in that case are coming.

[Mahealani Richardson]

Soon, this coming Monday.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. And finally, we know that the trial of Sean Diddy Combs is set to start next month. He's charged with sex trafficking, transportation for the purposes of prostitution and conspiracy, and he has pleaded not guilty to those charges. Sue, what is going on with all the civil suits since there are, what, more than 50 of them now?

[Mahealani Richardson]

Yeah, the total was actually over 60 until this week when one of those suits was dismissed by a judge because the plaintiff didn't identify herself. So this claim was brought in Federal court in the Southern District of New York. So Manhattan. And the plaintiff said that back in 1995, she was at a party for a music video, and she and Combs started kissing in the bathroom. And when she stopped, she says he struck her and then he raped her. He has denied this allegation. So when she filed the suit in October, the judge said the plaintiff could stay anonymous because putting her name to those allegations would get her, quote, significant, potentially harmful attention from the media and the public. But in January, that same judge said the plaintiff had until March 20th to come forward. When she didn't make that deadline, the judge dismissed her suit rights on Monday. Yes. Yes. Combstein put out a statement after that dismissal came down which said, for months, we've seen case after case filed by individuals hiding behind anonymity. The other claims, like the one dismissed today also will not hold up in a court of law.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, sue, thanks for taking the time and good luck in court today. We'll talk to you soon.

[J]

Bye.

[Mahealani Richardson]

Bye, Andrew.

[Andrea Canning]

My next guest is a former New Jersey police captain on a mission. Ever since his retirement, Jerry Turning has traveled the country training first responders on how best to interact with people with autism. As he said in a training session recently for the Hampden, Connecticut Police Department, for him, it's personal. He has a son with autism.

[Jerry Turning]

I was second in command of my police department, and when I go home today, I am scared to death. If I ever have to call for help from my son, I'm going to hesitate.

[Andrea Canning]

We first met Jerry through his daughter Anna, who happens to be a Dateline digital associate producer. She has written several articles for our Missing in America series, including some about people with autism who have gone missing. Since April is Autism Awareness Month. We asked Jerry and Anna to come on the podcast and tell us what we need to know. Anna and Jerry, thank you so much for being here.

[J]

Thanks for having us.

[Jerry Turning]

Yeah, thank you. It's an honor.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, absolutely. You're doing very, very good work. So to both of you, Anna and Jerry, you have someone in your family with autism, and this is what inspired you to do this work with the autism community.

[Jerry Turning]

Yeah. My son, his name is Eric, Anna's brother. He has been an amazing eye opening experience for us.

[J]

Yeah. Part of my job is to write about missing people and to bring awareness to those cases. The ones where the person that's missing is on the autism spectrum, have hit me extremely hard. Cause it's very personal to me.

[Andrea Canning]

Jerry, you were in the unique position of being a police officer, so you decided to rethink the interactions between law enforcement and people with autism.

[Jerry Turning]

Yeah, it's interesting, Angie. I. I was a cop for 10 years before my son was diagnosed. I had been involved in multiple large scale searches for individuals on the spectrum when they have gone missing. And it's sad to say that I have not. In my 25 year career, I had not received one minute of formal training or education on this topic. And I realized very quickly that what I had to learn in the education I was receiving about my son, just to be a dad and to be a parent raising a son on the spectrum was directly correlating to what I should have known as a police officer. And for very selfish reasons, I decided to tackle this because what happens if my son, who is now 21 years old, 6ft tall, 200 pounds, what happens if he meets somebody out there that I call brother? They misunderstand him, they mischaracterize who he is and the behaviors he is displaying, and they hurt my son.

[Andrea Canning]

How are you training people to better handle these situations?

[Jerry Turning]

Well, the first step is understanding that this stuff is hard. A lot of these behaviors that these individuals will display will directly mimic things that we've been taught in a police academy to show. Intoxication, evasiveness, disrespect, all of it's very valid 98% of the time. But that 2% of the time where that individual is on the spectrum and he's not interacting with you the way we expect, that's where we find ourselves in dangerous waters as law enforcement.

[Andrea Canning]

There's no playbook. But what's your advice to the caretakers of people with autism about how to deal with a situation where law enforcement needs to show up?

[Jerry Turning]

Well, this dances around a pretty controversial topic about privacy. And there's a large segment of our population who say that they don't want their child labeled or somehow looked at as different. I understand that and I value that opinion. However, from my perspective as a cop for 25 years, I'm a big proponent of information. So if a family were to ask me my advice, my advice would be to in any way possible make that officer understand that this individual they're interacting with is on the autism spectrum, has whatever sensory challenges, communication challenges, whatever it is that that family understands about that person, make sure that that is clear. Whether that comes verbally or whether it's, you know, using some of these ID technology that exists, whether it's an ID BR isolate, they're popping up all over the place. Special needs registries now that you can you can register your child with your law enforcement organization. Anything that can put it out there that there's a certain special circumstance here. I'm a proponent of.

[Andrea Canning]

Anna, of course, a big job that you have here at DATELINE is covering these missing persons cases. Is there a case that you've seen that showcases some of what your dad's training is trying to accomplish?

[J]

Yes. A case that definitely comes to mind for me was Sebastian Rogers. He's a 15 year old autistic boy from Sumner County, Tennessee. He went missing in February of 2024, something that police did during their initial search efforts, which I thought was very creative and kind of highlights exactly what my dad is teaching in his trainings is while searching for Sebastian, the search and rescue crews were playing music, specifically his favorite music. His favorite song is Eye of the Tiger. And they were playing that song in their cars and anywhere they could trying to soothe him and alert Sebastian that, you know, we're all here to help.

[Andrea Canning]

You and I'm so glad you're writing about this. It's so important. And also, you know, if anyone has any information, of course, about Sebastian Rogers from Sumner County, Tennessee, please let the police know or reach out to us at dateline. And, you know, just thank you to both for all of your work in the autism community.

[Jerry Turning]

Thank you, Andrea. It means a lot.

[J]

Thank you so much for having us.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of DATELINE True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to DATELINE Premium. If you have any true crime questions you want our team to look into. We'd love to hear your voice on the podcast. Send us an audio message on social at Dateline NBC or call us at 212-413-5252 and we'll see if we can get some answers for you. Coming up this Friday on Dateline. I've got an all new two hour episode. After a couple is found shot to death on a Fourth of July weekend, the man's grieving daughter is determined to find their killer, even if it means going undercover and confronting someone she loves.

[Sergey Evonen]

I really wanted to find out who did it.

[Andrea Canning]

You put your detective hat on. Yeah, I did. A fire was lit.

[Anna Turning]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Watch Deadly Obsession this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central or stream it on Peacock on Saturday. And for the next few weeks, you can get your DATELINE fix on Sundays too. This Sunday, tune in at 10, 9 Central for Josh's report about the puzzling murder of a University of Iowa student and the piece of surveillance video that cracked the case wide open. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Veronica Mazeca is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dately Line. Bye everyone.

[Traci]

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