Details emerge in a grisly Kentucky murder. Young Thug is free. And how to detect deception.

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: “Details Emerge in a Grisly Kentucky Murder. Young Thug is Free. And How to Detect Deception.”

In this compelling episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly, hosted by Andrea Canning from NBC News, listeners are taken through an intricate tapestry of true-crime stories that span from a grisly murder in Kentucky to the surprising release of rap superstar Young Thug. Additionally, the episode delves into expert insights on detecting deception, providing valuable tools for everyday interactions. Below is a detailed summary of the key segments, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps to capture the essence of each discussion.

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I. Grisly Kentucky Murder: Michael McKinney III's Trial Update

Overview: The episode opens with a deep dive into a harrowing murder case from Prestonsburg, Kentucky. Amber Spradlin, a 38-year-old restaurant hostess, was found murdered in the home of a prominent local dentist, Michael McKinney II, in June 2023. Initially, no arrests were made, but by July, Michael McKinney II, his son Michael McKinney III (referred to as MK), and a family friend, Josh Mullins, were charged with multiple counts, including tampering with evidence and Amber’s murder.

Key Developments:

• Prosecution’s Evidence: Rachel White, a Dateline producer present in the courtroom ([04:12]), explains that the prosecution has unveiled critical evidence against MK. Amber was stabbed at least 12 times, with the blade breaking her neck, discovered during the autopsy. Notably, MK exhibited scratches on his arms, and DNA under Amber’s fingernails matched the McKinney family. Additionally, security footage contradicted MK’s alibi, showing his truck leaving the scene within an hour of the murder.

• Defense’s Argument: MK’s defense team ([05:03]) contends that the extensive delays in evidence testing, attributed to backlog in Kentucky labs, could result in MK awaiting trial for over a year. They argue this prolonged detention is a miscarriage of justice, especially given MK's clean criminal record and minimal past infractions, such as a minor speeding ticket ([05:46]).

• Bond Hearing Outcome: Despite the defense’s plea to lower MK’s $5 million bond, Judge [09:10] ruled to maintain the bond, citing the McKinney family’s ability to post the amount but their reluctance to do so.

Notable Quote:

“MK could be waiting for a very long time for his trial. They haven't tested a lot of evidence in this case,” — Rachel White ([05:07])

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II. Young Thug’s Release: A Verdict in Atlanta’s Longest Trial

Overview: The narrative shifts to Atlanta, where rap superstar Jeffrey Williams, known as Young Thug, faced charges of running a criminal enterprise under the RICO Act. Accused by Fulton County Prosecutor Fani Willis of being a gang kingpin tied to a surge in local crime, Young Thug endured a prolonged trial alongside over two dozen co-defendants.

Key Developments:

• Plea Deal and Release: After two and a half years behind bars, Young Thug unexpectedly took a plea deal, resulting in his release with only time served and 15 years of probation ([16:01]). This decision came amid controversies, including prejudicial exposure of jury members to information about co-defendants and a media frenzy surrounding the trial’s mismanagement ([15:05], [15:19]).

• Public and Legal Reactions: The plea has sparked debates on the efficacy and fairness of the trial, with public opinion divided. David Dennis Jr., a CH journalist ([12:40]), highlights the precarious nature of the agreement, emphasizing the stringent conditions placed on Young Thug, such as restrictions on his music content and associations.

Notable Quotes:

“He made about a 10-minute speech. He did apologize... I have come to my senses,” — David Dennis Jr. ([16:27])

“He cannot, quote, promote gang activity in his music or hang around any quote, 'gang members' except for like his brother and Gunna,” — David Dennis Jr. ([18:27])

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III. Karen Reed Case: Massachusetts Supreme Court Hearing

Overview: Karen Reed, accused of fatally backing her car into her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe, faced a critical moment as the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court (SJC) deliberated on matters of double jeopardy following a mistrial declared in July.

Key Developments:

• Legal Proceedings: Following the mistrial, Reed’s defense asserted that multiple jurors believed she was not guilty on two counts, advocating for their dismissal to prevent double jeopardy ([21:04]). However, prosecutors countered, emphasizing that objections should have been raised during the mistrial declaration ([21:39]).

• Future Trial Schedule: Despite ongoing appeals, both defense and prosecution teams have requested an extension, pushing the retrial start date to April 1st, indicating potential delays in the high-profile case ([22:35]).

Notable Quote:

“Today’s appeal goes to the core issues regarding double jeopardy protections that safeguard defendants in this case.” — Sue Simpson ([22:12])

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IV. Brazilian Au Pair Murder Case: New Evidence Emerges

Overview: In Northern Virginia, the case of Juliana Perez Magalez, a Brazilian au pair charged with manslaughter, has gained new dimensions with the introduction of body cam footage from responding officers.

Key Developments:

• Body Cam Footage Insights: The footage reveals Juliana appearing distressed and recounting the events, claiming she witnessed Brendan Banfield stabbing his wife, Christine, and another man, Joseph Ryan. She alleges Brendan shot Ryan in self-defense ([23:30]).

• Prosecution’s Stance: Contrarily, prosecutors argue that Juliana fabricated her account to protect Brendan, suggesting that Joseph Ryan was a stranger from a fetish website who attempted to frame Brendan for the murders ([24:12]).

• Plea Agreement: Juliana has agreed to testify against Brendan as part of her plea deal, although details remain sparse ([24:31]).

Notable Quote:

“She tells them that she saw Joseph Ryan stabbing Christine and that Brendan shot him to defend his wife.” — Sue Simpson ([23:55])

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V. Delphi Trial Update: Richard Allen’s Case Continues

Overview: The trial of Richard Allen, accused of fatally stabbing two middle school girls in Delphi, Indiana, has reached a pivotal juncture with the defense presenting new arguments against the credibility of Allen’s numerous confessions.

Key Developments:

• Defense’s Strategy: Featuring over a dozen prison videos showing Allen in severe mental distress ([24:53]), the defense argues that his confessions resulted from psychotic breaks rather than factual admissions. Additionally, a tool mark expert cast doubt on the forensic evidence linking Allen to the crime scene, challenging the analysis that tied his firearm to the bullets found ([25:21]).

• Prosecution’s Position: The prosecution maintains that the physical evidence, particularly the bullet matching Allen’s gun, is central to their case, underscoring the importance of forensic integrity in establishing guilt.

Notable Quote:

“The defense was pushing their point that the confessions were a product of some kind of psychotic break.” — Sue Simpson ([25:21])

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VI. Detecting Deception: Insights from a Former Secret Service Agent

Overview: Concluding the episode, former Secret Service agent Evie Pomporos shares practical tips on identifying deception in everyday interactions, debunking common myths about body language cues associated with lying.

Key Strategies:

• Understanding Lying Methods: Evie outlines that lies can be outright falsehoods, partial truths mixed with lies, or omissions. Recognizing these patterns requires familiarity with an individual's baseline behavior when relaxed ([26:43]).

• Verbal Cues: Pay attention to how people respond. Avoidance of questions, defensive reactions, or stalling tactics can indicate discomfort or deceit. For instance, responses like “Tell me more about that” or dismissal phrases such as “I can’t believe you’re asking me this” are red flags ([27:43]).

• Body Language Misconceptions: Common beliefs, such as looking up and to the right signifies lying, are misleading. Instead, focus on deviations from a person’s normal behavior patterns, like sudden hand movements or inconsistent eye contact ([28:26]).

• Trusting Instincts: Beyond observable behaviors, trusting one’s intuition plays a crucial role. If something feels off, it warrants further inquiry ([29:23]).

Notable Quote:

“If it feels off to you, it probably is. Just listen to it.” — Ashley Flowers ([29:23])

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly weaves together intricate narratives of crime and justice, highlighting the complexities of the legal system and the human elements intertwined within. From the tense courtroom battles in Kentucky and Massachusetts to the high-profile release of Young Thug, each story underscores the multifaceted nature of true crime. Additionally, the segment on detecting deception offers listeners practical tools to navigate their personal interactions with greater awareness.

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free access and exclusive content, ensuring they stay informed with the latest in true-crime journalism.

Notable Closing Quote:

“There's something that nearly all Dateline episodes have in common. Someone is lying.” — Andrea Canning ([25:58])

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview while maintaining engaging storytelling and accurate attribution of key quotes and moments.

Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

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[David Dennis Jr.]

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[Andrea Canning]

Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will var not available in all states and situations. Hi everyone, it's Andrea Canning, back with the latest episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Episodes drop first thing every Thursday morning and you can also find them by searching for the DATELINE True Crime Weekly feed. So give us a listen and follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell your friends.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hey, good morning, everybody.

[Andrea Canning]

You're listening in to Dateline's morning meeting in 30 Rockefeller Center.

[Ashley Flowers]

Alrighty, we'll go ahead and get started.

[Andrea Canning]

Our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country. I just heard that one of the.

[Ashley Flowers]

Cops will talk to us.

[Rachel White]

I do believe the defense will rest today. That perfect marriage and that perfect couple.

[Andrea Canning]

May not be so perfect. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's November 7th, and here's what's on our docket. In the spring of 2022, the state of Georgia accused one of the biggest names in rap music, Jeffrey Williams, or young thug, of running a criminal enterprise. But last week, he left jail in a Mercedes.

[David Dennis Jr.]

If you had told me that this was scripted in a TV show, this was like too unbelievable.

[Andrea Canning]

In Dateline Roundup, Karen Reed is back in court. New videos are played for the jury in the Delphi murders trial. And we've got police body cam from the case of the Brazilian au pair accused of murder. He started stabbing her friend.

[Rachel White]

I think Brinley shot him.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, have you ever wondered how detectives know when someone is lying to them? We've got tips from a former Secret Service agent about how to spot deceit.

[Ashley Flowers]

We kind of know when things are off. Trust it.

[Andrea Canning]

But first, we're heading to a small town in Kentucky for an update On a case we talked about on the podcast over the summer, the son of a local dentist has been behind bars, charged with a grisly murder he denies committing. Now we're finally getting a look at some of the prosecution's evidence. In June 2023, Amber Spradlin, a 38 year old restaurant hostess in Prestonsburg, Kentucky, was found murdered in a prominent dentist's home. For over a year, there were no arrests. Then this July, the dentist, Michael McKinney II, his son and a family friend were arrested and charged with multiple counts of tampering with evidence. And the son, Michael McKinney III, was also charged with Amber's murder. Here's our NBC affiliate station, wlex. The allegation, he intentionally killed Spradlin by repeatedly stabbing her inside his father's home. On June 18, 2023, all three men pleaded not guilty. Two of the men were released from jail, but the dentist's son, known as mk, has been behind bars ever since. Then two weeks ago, there was a hearing about his unusually high bond. M.K. mcKinney, once out of jail, and his lawyer argued why his $5 million bond should be lowered. The prosecution also spoke at the hearing and revealed for the first time some of the evidence they believe proves MK is Amber's killer. DATELINE producer Rachel White was inside the courtroom and is here to tell us what she learned and what the judge decided. Rachel, welcome back to the show.

[Rachel White]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so this is a complicated case. Let's start with a quick recap of what happened. What do police believe happened? That house. How did Amber end up at the dentist house?

[Rachel White]

So Amber had just finished her shift at the Brick House restaurant. She met up with a friend to grab a drink at another bar, met up with the dentist, his son, and this third man, Josh Mullins, and decided to go back to the dentist's house to continue the night and have a few more drinks.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, where does everything go wrong? I think this is where you're going to say we don't really know. Yeah, Right.

[Rachel White]

So there's a lot of unknowns, a lot of details that still have not come out. For example, prosecutors haven't laid out a motive for the this crime.

[Andrea Canning]

Even you were at this hearing where the defense representing MK McKinney tried to get his $5 million bond lowered. That's a lot of money. What did the defense say?

[Rachel White]

I think one of the main points of the defense's argument was that MK could be waiting for a very long time for his trial. They haven't tested a lot of evidence in this case, and some of it could be exculpatory evidence. The prosecution has said that that was because of a backlog in the Kentucky labs. So the defense is saying that MK is innocent until proven guilty and that the evidence in this case could take at least a year, if not longer, to get them to the point where they could have a trial. And that's a very long time for him to wait.

[Andrea Canning]

If he's sitting in jail that entire time, that's a miscarriage of justice because.

[David Dennis Jr.]

It'S not his responsibility to do this test.

[Rachel White]

His attorney also said that he has no prior criminal record.

[Andrea Canning]

The allegation of he's a danger to the community, he's 25 years old and.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Has a speeding ticket for 5 miles per hour over. That's it.

[Andrea Canning]

Then what is the prosecution saying?

[Rachel White]

The prosecution laid out a lot of evidence in the case because the defense's motion basically said that there was a lack of physical evidence. And so they, they went and laid out a lot of it to prove that that wasn't true. So we learned that Amber was stabbed at least 12 times in the head and neck and torso. And this was a very, very violent attack. The blade from the knife actually broke her neck and was found during the autopsy.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, wow. And. And they, even though, as we mentioned, that they're not saying exactly what they have, they are indicating that their evidence strongly implicates MK.

[Rachel White]

They are. So when MK McKin was brought in for questioning shortly after the murder, scratches were seen and photographed on his forums. They're saying that under her fingernails they found DNA. And the DNA was a paternal match to the McKin DNA. But because of those marks on MK, that's why prosecutors are looking at him for the murder. Dr. McKinney and Josh Mullins had no defensive wounds, according to the prosecution.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it's interesting because you have father and son, correct? So you need that extra bit of evidence to kind of put the pieces together, if what the prosecution is saying is correct. So there was also some video evidence that prosecutors mentioned.

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So the prosecution says that the dentist told several people that MK left the house overnight. But security video taken from neighbors homes shows that MK's truck was leaving at 8:30am Amber was last seen in the living room around 7:00am so the timeline that the prosecution is laying out here is that the murder happens sometime after.

[Andrea Canning]

7Am the prosecution also pointed to MK McKinney's mental condition.

[Rachel White]

That's right. So this filing by the prosecution says that he had, quote, a history of violent outbursts and mental instability. It also says that he had, quote, heard voices telling him to kill himself and that he talked about some dark voices taking control and telling him to do bad things. And they also pointed to a time in which MK allegedly pulled a knife on someone while drinking at a party.

[Andrea Canning]

One of the things that stood out to us was his own statements about his inability to control his aim. But he had instances where he was triggered and couldn't. Couldn't control himself, which is consistent with what we believe occurred here. We should note that the defense says these allegations come from one source. This whole pulling a knife, there's not.

[David Dennis Jr.]

A single other person who supports that story.

[Andrea Canning]

So it sounds like a lot happened at this hearing. Was MK there?

[Rachel White]

He was. He was there. I did have a view of mk, and he was pretty stoic. You know, he was interested in what was happening. The courtroom was full. There was a camera in there, lots of media attention.

[Andrea Canning]

Amber's family, I'm assuming, was there.

[Rachel White]

They were there. All of them. There were friends and family who knew Amber and knew her well. They're supporting. And there were also people there that never were able to meet her. They were just there because her case resonated so much with them that they wanted to show their support.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so what did the judge decide as far as lowering MK's bond?

[Rachel White]

He said that the McKinneys had the ability to post his bond, and you know that they didn't. And he said the bond will stay at 5 million.

[Andrea Canning]

So many unanswered questions in this one, Rachel. We'll be keeping an eye on it and we look forward to your updates going forward.

[Rachel White]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, the Atlanta trial of a well known rapper produced viral moments and controversy. And then all of a sudden, it unraveled. How did a man facing 45 years in prison walk away with time served? True crime podcasts, there is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before, because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes now. Wherever you get your podcasts, when it comes to live tv, Sling puts you in charge. So you can pick the live sports, news, and entertainment channels you actually want. You can save hundreds on TV with Sling. Plus pause your subscription when your QB has a season ending injury and still get 500 channels for free with Sling Freestream. Choose and customize your channel lineup or watch for free. Visit sling.com to learn more and get started. CIDP is no walk in the park. It can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? Now there's a new treatment option for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy that may fit into your routine. Discover [e-mail] and talk to your doctor. That's innovationforcidp.com brought to you by argenx. For our next story, we're heading to an Atlanta courtroom where last week we saw the dramatic conclusion to the longest running trial in Georgia history, at least for one of the defendants, rap superstar young thug. In 2022, Fulton County Prosecutor Fani Willis accused the rapper, whose real name is Jeffrey Williams, of being a gang kingpin. She charged him with racketeering, said the gang had been involved in murder and the key to her case, the musician's own songs. I never killed anybody, but I got something to do with that body.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I got these trees on my back. My face carry it like I'm moving about it.

[Andrea Canning]

If you decide to admit your crimes over a beat, I'm going to use it. For two and a half years, Young Thug sat behind bars as his trial, which involved more than two dozen co defendants, dragged on. Then suddenly last week, in a move that surprised everyone, he took a plea deal. His fans on TikTok were delighted. Oh my God, I never thought I'd see the day. Young Thug is free. Young Thug is free. Here to talk about what that freedom might look like and how Young Thug ended Here is CH journalist David Dennis Jr who covers pop culture for ESPN and also lives in Atlanta. David, thanks for being here.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's talk about what Young Thug was on trial for.

[David Dennis Jr.]

If you believe the RICO case. Young Thug is sort of the head of this snake that extends throughout a large swath of criminality in Atlanta, which the DA has tied to a rise in crime in the city and has sort of put that at the feet of Young Thugs.

[Andrea Canning]

And ysl, that's his record label.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. It's the idea that he is the head of this crime syndicate, this record label, ysl, that has done, you know, a lot of crime and violence in the city.

[Andrea Canning]

So the criminal acts the prosecution said Young Thug committed included he received stolen property, a gun made a gang sign with his hand and photos posted on social media, rented a car that was allegedly used to commit a murder. And we're talking about 27 CO defendants in this case, which is just unbelievable.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a huge case. This is a huge, sprawling case. And there are still a few people were still on trial.

[Andrea Canning]

The lyrics in his songs, Fani Willis was pointing to guilt based on those lyrics.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. I mean, rap on trial is a huge issue that has gone back many years. That is a dangerous, slippery slope in hip hop. There's a lot of people who make lyrics you could, if you based, you know, crimes on lyrics. Almost every rapper, not even just rapper, a lot of musicians themselves would go to jail. To base, like, criminality on, like, fictional characters is extremely dangerous.

[Andrea Canning]

This trial really has been dogged with controversy.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. I mean, it's been a mess. Like there's no other way to put it. There's been multiple judges, there's been lawyers who've been tossed. There have been viral testimonies from, you know, the guy who said he was high on the stand first, said he didn't know when he was born, and things like that. I mean, this has been as messy a court cases as you can imagine. If it wasn't such a serious case, this would be something like out of an episode of the TV show Atlanta. This was really around the city of Atlanta, the big water cooler talk, the barber shop. I mean, my barber shop had the trial on 247 when I was in there.

[Andrea Canning]

Do we know what exactly happened that resulted finally, as we said, longest trial in state history, and now we have this plea deal.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Part of this comes out of this sort of calamitous thing that happened a couple of weeks ago, which they had a witness sort of read out an Instagram caption, and it had the hashtag Free Quay.

[Andrea Canning]

So two of Williams co defendants go by the name Quay. And the jury wasn't supposed to know that they or any of the defendants have been locked up in the months before and during the trial. That mistake possibly tainted the jury.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. So the defense was trying to make an argument that this was a prejudicial factor in this, that the jury found out that somebody was in jail when they're. When they're trying to keep the jury sort of out of that. That information. And that really led to a moment where both sides sort of saw that a plea deal may be the quickest way and maybe the best way to get out of this.

[Andrea Canning]

What exactly did Jeffrey Williams plead guilty to?

[David Dennis Jr.]

So what he's pled guilty to was participation in a gang. He pled guilty to three drug Charges, two gun charges. He also pleaded no contest to the charges of being the leader in the gang and conspiring to violate the rico.

[Andrea Canning]

And so to break it down, he's not admitting that the state is correct about, about his record label being a gang with him at the top. But he's also not going to fight them in court any longer.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, basically it's kind of an impasse.

[Andrea Canning]

So young thug put his fate in the judge's hands. Did he make a statement at all?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, so he made about a 10 minute speech. He did apologize. He thanked the judge being fair. Said he learned a lot in these last two and a half years that he's been locked up. I know the impact I got on people, period in the community. I learned that late. Maybe it was because I was, you know, probably on drugs, I don't know. But I have came to my senses. He cracked a couple of jokes. He talked about the bailiffs and everybody getting overtime and he said he would hope he never see the judge again.

[Ashley Flowers]

I hope that you allow me to.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Go home today and, and just trusting me to just do the right thing and never see you again unless it's.

[Ashley Flowers]

Unless it's at a, you know, bar.

[David Dennis Jr.]

In the future or something.

[Ashley Flowers]

I promise you I won't ever be.

[Andrea Canning]

In this type of situation again. So the judge decided his sentence. What did she do?

[David Dennis Jr.]

She gave him time served which has been two and a half years and then 15 years of probation on top of that. And if he violates that probation, there's a 20 year sentence that's sort of hanging over his head. So he gets to walk free. But it's going to be a really challenging next 15 years for him.

[Andrea Canning]

He has a lot of restrictions on him about what he can and cannot do.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, I mean like he can't be in Atlanta where he's from, unless there's funerals, things like that. He cannot, quote, unquote, promote gang activity in his music or hang around any quote, unquote gang members except for like his brother and Gunna who's a collaborator. And he's subjected to search and seizure at any point over the next 15 years. Which to me that feels like a hell in itself. Like that's, it's not jail but it does feel, it feels dangerous. I mean like what are things that you say that promotes gang activity in your music? Right. And it's sort of up to somebody's discretion.

[Andrea Canning]

Is there any public outcry that he got off too easy?

[David Dennis Jr.]

A lot of the public outcry is about the trial itself. The fact that this trial has taken so long and it's taken a lot of resources, there's really nothing to show for it. You know, there's no belief that the streets of Atlanta are any safer.

[Andrea Canning]

David Dennis, Jr. Thank you for your insight into this case. We appreciate it.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Next, we've got DATELINE roundup. The Massachusetts Supreme Court takes up the Karen Reed case. And in a D.C. suburb, a last minute guilty plea raises the question, has the Brazilian au pair turned on her lover? Plus, can you tell if someone is deceiving you? Former Secret Service agent Evie Pomporos is back to share some tips on how to read people true crime podcasts. There is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes. Now. Wherever you get your podcasts, everywhere you look, things are getting more expensive. So at Consumer Cellular, we're lowering the price for those 50. And now you can get unlimited talk, text and data for $30 a line. When you buy two, that's just $60 a month for two unlimited lines. So if you're 50 and up, make the switch and save. Come on, you've earned this. Call 1888 FREEDOM or visit consumercellular.com today. Requires two lines of service, age validation and credit approval subject to system and area limits. Taxes and other fees apply. Holiday magic is in the air, and DSW's got all the shoes to make your season extra merry. Believe you've got parties to attend and list to check twice. So DSW is taking care of the details, like gifts to make their eyes all aglow, styles that bring joy to your world. Brands everyone wants like Ugg, Nike, Birkenstock and more. And deals to make your budget bright. Find the perfect shoes for you and yours at a DSW store near you or dsw.com welcome back. Joining me for this week's DATELINE roundup is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson. Hey, Sue.

[Sue Simpson]

Hey.

[Andrea Canning]

So we are off to Massachusetts with some news in the Karen Reed case, who listeners will of course remember as the woman accused of killing her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe in 2022 by drunkenly backing her car into him. Reed went on trial this spring, but the jury was hung and a mistrial was declared on July 1. Both teams are gearing up for a second trial. So tell us, what is new, Sue.

[Sue Simpson]

Well, this week, actually on Wednesday, Karen Reed's attorney and the prosecutors appeared before Massachusetts highest court for a hearing.

[Andrea Canning]

Hear ye, hear ye. SJC13663, Commonwealth versus Karen Reed.

[Sue Simpson]

And this is because after the mistrial was declared, the defense team said they heard from multiple jurors who told them that the jury unanimously agreed that Karen Reed was not guilty of two of the counts against her. The defense team argued that she should be acquitted on these two charges. They should be dismissed.

[Andrea Canning]

Today's appeal goes to the core issues regarding double jeopardy protections that safeguard defendants in this case.

[Sue Simpson]

Misread prosecutors got up and said, no, no, wait a minute. You should have spoken up in open court when the mistrial was declared. And those were the arguments made on Wednesday. The Supreme Judicial Court In Massachusetts has 120 days to make a decision after hearing these oral arguments.

[Andrea Canning]

So the prosecution is trying to keep things as they are when we go to trial a second time in January.

[Sue Simpson]

That's exactly right. What I would say, though, is it's not necessarily clear they're going to go have that retrial in January because both sides actually filed a joint motion on Monday saying to the judge, could we please have an extension? They're asking both the defense and the prosecution for the trial not to start until April 1st.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, thank you for that update, Sue. For our next story, we are off to Northern Virginia. We have been following closely the case of the Brazilian au pair who was charged with murder.

[Sue Simpson]

Right. The victims in the case were the mom the Brazilian au pair was working for and another man, a total stranger. Both of them were found dead in the family home in the dad of the family, Brendan Banfield, has been charged with killing the mom, his wife, Christine, and that other man named Joseph Ryan. And prosecutors say that Banfield plotted to kill his wife and the au pair was in on it.

[Andrea Canning]

Last week, the big news was that the au pair, Juliana Perez Magalez, pleaded guilty to manslaughter. And now we have some new information.

[Sue Simpson]

Our Dagon team got their hands on body cam footage from the officers who first responded to the scene. The au pair, you may remember, was the one to calm 911. On the body cam, you can see her gasping. She seems distraught. She's talking to officers.

[Andrea Canning]

Take a minute.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Okay.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Do you just want to tell me quickly what happened?

[Rachel White]

I don't know.

[Andrea Canning]

What happened?

[Rachel White]

Everything happened so fast.

[Sue Simpson]

She tells them that she saw Joseph Ryan stabbing Christine and that Brendan shot him to defend his wife.

[Andrea Canning]

He started stabbing her. Brendan.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I think Brendan shot him.

[Andrea Canning]

And he asked me help to shot him, too. Prosecutors say that story is not true. They say that the au pair was covering for Brendan, who they say Lord Joseph Ryan, that stranger to the home through a fetish website, and they say tried to frame this stranger for his wife's murder.

[Sue Simpson]

That's right. And we haven't heard, of course, Brendan's side of things yet. But the au pair says she's going to testify against him as part of a plea agreement that she made last week.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Finally, we're headed to Delphi, Indiana for the trial of Richard Allen. He is the man accused of fatally stabbing two middle school girls in 2017.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, it's been another intense week at that trial. The jury got to see over a dozen videos of Allen in prison from the time when he gave more than 60 confessions. And when the defense says that he was in great mental distress, we know they included footage of Allen being tased, eating feces, and being transported for medical treatment. The defense was pushing their point that the confessions were a product of some kind of psychotic break.

[Andrea Canning]

They weren't real. Any other big witnesses?

[Sue Simpson]

There was also a tool mark expert who took the stand and raised concerns about the analysis of the stakes examiner who had said that the bullet found at the crime scene had cycled through Allen's gun. And that's a big one because the bullet is really the only physical evidence that the prosecution has to tie Allen to the scene.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, really big point in this case. The defense rested Wednesday morning, so we'll keep you updated as this trial comes to a close. Sue, thank you for coming back on Roundup.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks, Andrea. It's always great to do it.

[Andrea Canning]

There's something that nearly all Dateline episodes have in common. Someone is lying. It could be a murderer lying to police about an alibi or a husband lying to his wife about an affair. Sometimes it could be a detective lying to a suspect to get information. So for our final story this week, we wanted to find out how can you tell if someone is lying to you if someone is deceiving you? We asked former Secret Service agent Evie Pomporos, who conducted her fair share of polygraph exams, for some tips. Hey, Evie, thanks for coming back.

[Ashley Flowers]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

People lie. Sometimes they're harmless. Sometimes they're white lies. Sometimes they're big lies that can really impact your life in a negative way. How can you read people in a way to know if they're lying to you or not?

[Ashley Flowers]

First, there are three primary ways people lie. One way is they'll tell you full on lie. The second way they tell you a lie is they will tell you a lie. Sprinkle in a little truth, then a little lie. Little, little truth. The third way people lie. The most common way people lie is they lie by omission. I'll tell you this part here, but I'm going to leave this part out. So how can you catch this behavior with people? The first thing I'm going to say is we have to know people's baselines. Who are they normally, when they're not threatened, when they're in a relaxed mode. Now when you start asking people uncomfortable questions or questions where you start thinking, I want to know, you know, what did my significant other do last night? Am I looking at my significant other's baseline?

[Rachel White]

Sure.

[Ashley Flowers]

Because I'm going to see deviations. We all kind of the people that are close to our orbit, we kind of know when things are off. Trust it. Just pay attention and then start asking follow up questions.

[Andrea Canning]

What type of follow up questions would you ask?

[Ashley Flowers]

Tell me more about that. Be curious. And so if you see them struggling to answer your question or they consistently don't want to answer it, now you know there's a problem with this question. When you interview people and teenagers are king and queen when they do this, they make you feel stupid. That's a dumb question. I already told you. I can't believe you're asking me this. Those are red flags. Now look, does it mean that person's lying? No. But you should ask yourself why? Why is your response so strong to something simple that I ask? Often people do this to get you to back down. Another super common thing is answering a question with the question, who me? Stalling tactic.

[Andrea Canning]

So that's verbal. What about body language?

[Ashley Flowers]

The problem with body language is the narrative is, oh, they looked up and to the right. They're making up the lie. It is absolutely not true. Think of it this way. We are so uniquely different. How can you actually put somebody in the box as what they're going to physically do in a lying scenario? Now, can some people give you cues? Yes. So if you ask me a question and the whole time we're talking, my hands are down, I'm not putting them up to my face and then all of a sudden my hand goes up to my mouth before I answer, you should in that moment say, hmm, that is super weird. Does that mean I'm lying? No. It could mean, though that's an uncomfortable question for me. Eye contact, too. For some people, not all. I've interviewed so many people and I've had many people look me in the eye all day long and lie, lie, lie.

[Andrea Canning]

That's the big one that you hear about is that someone will look down or they won't look you in the eye. If they're lying, some can.

[Ashley Flowers]

Again, just because somebody does it, it doesn't mean everybody's a liar. Pay attention. And you know, I also think people should just trust their instincts. If it feels off to you, it probably is. Just listen to it.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. All right. What I love about these tips are that you can use it in your everyday life. So thank you, Evie.

[Ashley Flowers]

Absolutely.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Next week, the conclusion of a trial that's riveted Minnesota. Did the man who admitted to law enforcement that he was infatuated with the Gabby Petito case murder the mother of his children? To find out more about the cases covered on the show, head to our website, dateline true crime weekly.com and coming up this Friday on Dateline, almost 30 years after Eric and Lyle Menendez were sentenced to life in prison for murdering their parents amidst a surge of public attention and a DA's recommendation, could they be released, we're viewing everything that happened back then through a different lens.

[David Dennis Jr.]

A different lens, yes. But is it making our vision any clearer?

[Andrea Canning]

Watch Keith's new two hour mystery, the Menendez Chance at Freedom, airing this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to DATELINE Premium, where you can also find exclusive bonus content, including our latest episode of after the Verdict, which drops today. I'll be talking with Lissa Yellowbird, who tracked down one of the men involved in the disappearance of her niece and now crosses the country with her search dogs looking for other missing people. Thanks for listening. DATELINE True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kuroloff Production and fact checking help by Sara Kadir. Veronica Mazeca is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline True Crime Podcasts. There is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before, because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes. Now, wherever you get your podcasts.