Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Episode Summary Release Date: June 5, 2025

Overview In this episode of Dateline NBC, the team delves into multiple high-profile true crime cases, providing updates on ongoing trials, exploring defense strategies, and offering unique insights through interviews with key contributors. The episode also features an exclusive conversation with a courtroom sketch artist, shedding light on the visual storytelling absent from many high-stakes legal proceedings.

---

1. Karen Reed's Retrial: Defense Takes the Stand

Location: Dedham, Massachusetts
Timestamp: 04:24 – 09:12

The episode opens with an update on the retrial of Karen Reed, who is charged with the murder of her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe. Two years into the case, Reed maintains her innocence, claiming she was framed by law enforcement officers to protect their own interests.

Key Developments:

• Defense Strategy: The defense has introduced new witnesses and revisited controversial testimonies. Notably, they aim to undermine the credibility of former Massachusetts state Trooper Michael Proctor, whose handling of the investigation led to his dismissal.

  Quote:
  "He does, Totally. Right, Andrea." – Sue Simpson, Dateline Producer [04:07]

• Text Evidence: A childhood friend of Proctor, Jonathan Diamandis, was called to testify about derogatory text messages Proctor sent regarding Reed. Diamandis confirmed the authenticity of these messages but declined to read them in court due to their offensive language. The prosecution proceeded to read the texts, revealing Proctor's unsavory remarks towards Reed.

  Quote:
  "That’s accurate, Mr. Proctor. There's a response. Laughed at. 'No ass, bitch.' Yes." – Andrea Canning [05:12]

• Officer Kelly Dever's Testimony: Defense attorney Alan Jackson questioned former Canton police officer Kelly Dever about her observations on the day O'Keefe's body was found. Dever initially stated she saw higher-ranking officers with Reed's SUV, which aligns with the defense's theory of foul play by law enforcement. However, Dever later recanted parts of her testimony, suggesting potential memory inconsistencies.

  Quote:
  "I'm telling the truth." – Kelly Dever [08:51]

• Expert Testimony: Dr. Marie Russell, an emergency room pathologist, testified that O'Keefe's injuries were consistent with dog bites rather than being caused by Reed's car, challenging the prosecution's narrative.

  Quote:
  "There would have to be multiple projections from the vehicle that were lined up in certain pattern to give those parallel marks all in the same direction." – Dr. Marie Russell [11:00]

Conclusion: The defense's aggressive questioning and introduction of contradictory testimonies have intensified the trial, leaving jurors to navigate conflicting narratives about Reed's involvement.

---

2. Murder of Dee Warner: Trial and Civil Suit Updates

Location: Lenaway County Courthouse, Michigan
Timestamp: 14:34 – 20:27

Background:
Deanne "Dee" Warner, a 52-year-old grandmother and businesswoman, was found deceased in a metal tank on her farm in April 2021. Her husband, Dale Warner, was arrested and charged with her murder and evidence tampering in November 2023. The case has unveiled complex family dynamics and potential motives tied to Dee's considerable assets.

Key Developments:

• Civil Lawsuit: Dee's children have filed a $100 million wrongful death lawsuit against Dale Warner, aiming to prevent him from accessing Dee's estate if financial gain was a motive for the murder.

  Quote:
  "I think what they're doing is trying to make sure that if money was the motive, if getting out of that marriage and getting all of her money was, was, was Dale's motive." – Sue Simpson [15:53]

• Additional Charges: Initially, Dale's son, Jaron Warner, was charged with accessory after the fact and evidence tampering but the charges were dropped without prejudice in May, allowing for potential re-filing.

  Quote:
  "They dropped the charges without prejudice, back in May." – Sue Simpson [16:48]

• Change of Venue Request: Dale's defense team filed a motion to change the trial venue, citing extensive media coverage and social media activity that could prejudice potential jurors. A controversial Facebook post advising jurors to delete incriminating social media content was highlighted during these proceedings.

  Quote:
  "It’s essentially 'go back over your own social media... delete anything else that you wrote that makes it clear that you have an agenda.'" – Sue Simpson [18:20]

• Court Rulings: The judge denied both the change of venue and the motion to exclude a prosecution witness, emphasizing that media buzz was not yet sufficiently influential to warrant a venue change.

  Quote:
  "He essentially said that all the media buzz was just too early to be a problem." – Sue Simpson [18:56]

Conclusion: With the trial scheduled for January next year, the Warneys continue to navigate legal challenges, including ongoing civil litigation and strategic defense maneuvers aimed at ensuring a fair trial amidst high public interest.

---

3. Kentucky Case: Steve Lawson's Conviction

Location: Kentucky Courthouse
Timestamp: 22:33 – 25:21

The episode revisits the long-running case of Crystal Rogers, who was reported missing in 2015 and presumed dead after her car was found abandoned. In 2023, Steve Lawson, along with his son Joseph Lawson and Crystal's ex-boyfriend Brooks Hauck, were charged in relation to her disappearance.

Key Developments:

• Steve Lawson's Trial:

  • Charges: Conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence.
  • Defense: Admitted to moving Crystal's car at Brooks Hauck's request but denied involvement in her disappearance.

  Quote:
  "He admitted to the tampering with physical evidence charge. He said that he did move Crystal's car at the request of her boyfriend, Brooks Hauck, but he said he had nothing to do with her disappearance or her murder." – Josh Mankiewicz [23:59]

• Verdict: The jury swiftly found Steve Lawson guilty on both charges after less than a week of deliberation.

  Quote:
  "Steve Lawson was found guilty on Both." – Josh Mankiewicz [24:25]

• Family Impact: Crystal's family expressed a mix of relief and sorrow, highlighting the prolonged emotional toll of the decade-long pursuit of justice.

  Quote:
  "She's getting married this summer. And, you know, Crystal won't be there to see that happen." – Josh Mankiewicz [24:41]

• Upcoming Trials: The trials for Joseph Lawson and Brooks Hauck are scheduled to commence on June 24, with expectations of further revelations in Crystal's case.

  Quote:
  "Joey Lawson and Brooks Hauck are being tried together and that's scheduled to start at the end of June on Tuesday, June 24." – Josh Mankiewicz [25:12]

Conclusion: Steve Lawson's conviction marks a significant milestone in Crystal Rogers' case, bringing a sense of closure for the family while setting the stage for the upcoming trials of the remaining defendants.

---

4. Dan Serafini's Trial: Digital Evidence on the Stand

Location: Lake Tahoe, California
Timestamp: 25:21 – 27:48

Case Overview:
Former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini is on trial for the murder of his father-in-law, Gary Spore, and the attempted murder of his mother-in-law, Wendy Wood.

Key Developments:

• Prosecution's Focus: The prosecution presented digital communications, including texts and emails between Serafini, his wife Sara Feeney, and his in-laws, highlighting escalating conflicts, particularly over financial matters.

  Quote:
  "Gary Spoor and Wendy call Sarafeni, quote, belligerent and vicious and call him out for being violent and say he has a temper problem." – Josh Mankiewicz [26:10]

• Phone Activity: An investigator testified that the day of the homicide was the only day Sara Feeney's phone showed zero outgoing messages, suggesting possible intentions or premeditation.

  Quote:
  "And the only day his phone had zero outgoing messages was the day of the homicide." – Josh Mankiewicz [26:29]

Conclusion: The incorporation of digital evidence underscores the complex interpersonal dynamics leading up to the tragic events, providing critical context for Serafini's defense and the prosecution's narrative.

---

5. Lori Valo Debel's Trial: Dramatic Courtroom Scenes

Location: Arizona Courthouse
Timestamp: 26:42 – 28:16

Case Overview:
Lori Valo Debel is on trial for allegedly conspiring to murder her niece's ex-husband, Brandon Boudreau. Her courtroom demeanor has introduced unexpected delays and raised questions about her representation.

Key Developments:

• Illness Claims: Debel claimed illness multiple times to postpone jury selection. During one episode, she appeared in court via wheelchair, asserting incapacity to represent herself.

  Quote:
  "I did not plan on getting sick. I am incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself." – Lori Valo Debel [27:20]

• Judge's Response: The judge, while dismissive of Debel's theatrics, allowed her to return to court, highlighting the ongoing tension in the proceedings.

  Quote:
  "And the judge denied the defense motion on that, too." – Sue Simpson [19:05]

• Courtroom Atmosphere: Debel's confrontational interaction with the judge and the jurors' reactions added a layer of unpredictability to the trial.

Conclusion: Debel's unpredictable courtroom behavior continues to complicate the trial process, with legal strategies and personal conduct both under intense scrutiny.

---

6. Courtroom Sketch Artist: Capturing the Unseen

Timestamp: 28:22 – 33:41

In a departure from traditional reporting, Dateline NBC features an interview with Christine Cornell, a seasoned courtroom sketch artist with over 50 years of experience. Cornell discusses the intricacies of her craft, the responsibility of depicting high-profile defendants accurately, and the artistry involved in capturing the essence of courtroom tensions.

Key Insights:

• Artistic Responsibility: Cornell emphasizes the dual goal of creating accurate likenesses while conveying the dynamic atmosphere of the courtroom.

  Quote:
  "You want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them, and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom." – Christine Cornell [30:28]

• Notable Cases: She recounts drawing figures such as John Gotti, Martha Stewart, and Sean Combs, highlighting the unique challenges each case presents.

• Personal Encounters: Cornell shares anecdotes of interactions with defendants, including a moment where Sean "P. Diddy" Combs acknowledged her work by offering a thumbs-up.

  Quote:
  "And I said, well, ma'am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me." – Christine Cornell [32:03]

Conclusion: Through her sketches, Cornell provides a visual narrative that complements the verbal accounts of trials, offering listeners a more comprehensive understanding of the courtroom proceedings.

---

7. Upcoming Content and Series Highlights

Timestamp: 33:41 – 35:47

The episode concludes with previews of upcoming stories and series within the Dateline NBC portfolio:

• Missing in America: Josh Mankiewicz announces the launch of Season Four on June 10th, featuring six new missing persons cases with in-depth coverage from families and investigators.

  Quote:
  "A brand new season of Missing In America, season four, six brand new missing persons cases debuts June 10th." – Sue Simpson [19:57]

• Courtroom Sketch Artist Features: Listeners are encouraged to visit the Dateline True Crime Weekly website to view Christine Cornell's sketches.

• Pam Hupp Saga: An upcoming episode revisits the 1997 murder case of a 21-year-old electrician, highlighting the complexities and ongoing developments over the years.

  Quote:
  "In 1997, a 21-year-old electrician was found shot to death on his bedroom floor... It would take years before the plot unraveled." – Andrea Canning [34:34]

Conclusion: Dateline NBC continues to expand its true crime storytelling, offering a blend of podcast series, daily updates, and visual artistry to engage and inform its audience.

---

Final Thoughts This episode of Dateline NBC weaves through intricate legal battles, personal testimonies, and the unseen artistry of courtroom sketches, providing a multifaceted view of contemporary true crime narratives. By blending detailed case updates with expert interviews, the podcast ensures listeners are thoroughly informed and captivated by the unfolding stories.

Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

Want to pull off the season's freshest trends, you just need the right shoes. That's where designer shoe warehouse comes in. Loving wide leg jeans. Pair them with sleek low profile sneakers. Obsessed with the sheer trend. Try it with mesh flats. Feeling boho, comfy sandals. Nail the whole free spirited thing. Find on trend shoes from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at DSW. Taking over the helm of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility.

[Tom Yamas]

Good evening.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News. For NBC News. For NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas, evenings on NBC. Good morning. How you doing? Good. You're listening in to dateline's morning meeting.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He just filed the charges end of day yesterday.

[Andrea Canning]

Our producers are swapping tips about breaking crime news. That would be an amazing twist. Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He was offering him $4,000 for this. He only gives him 70 in the end.

[Andrea Canning]

I don't know what her story is going to be. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's June 5th and here's what's on our docket. In Michigan farm country, the body of Dee Warner, a beloved grandmother and businesswoman, was found sealed in a metal tank last year. Now her husband is in court for her murder. Josh Mankiewicz has the latest.

[Sue Simpson]

The case is proceeding and it's going to go to trial. But there have been a few things.

[Andrea Canning]

That have happened since then in DATELINE Roundup, a verdict in the trial of the first of three men charged in connection to the murder of a Kentucky mother. And a dramatic scene during jury selection at Lori Valo Dabel's latest trial. I did not plan on getting sick. I am incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself. Plus, when cameras aren't allowed in the courtroom, sketch artists fill in the blanks. We'll talk to the sketch artist at the trial of Sean Combs. About what the cameras are missing, Puffy Combs.

[Tom Yamas]

Mom is sitting behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up.

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, we're heading to Dedham, Massachusetts, and a new chapter in the retrial of Karen Reed. Over a month into her retrial, Karen Reed's defense is finally putting on its case. That comes after months of legal back and forth about what witnesses could be called, speculation about the defense's strategy, and a gag order that means only the defendant herself can talk to the media. Here is Karen Reed talking to our affiliate, NBC 10 Boston. Karen, what can we expect from the defense? Will you testify? Tbd how are you feeling after today? I feel very good, thank you. Karen Reed is charged with hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend John o' Keefe, with her car after a night of heavy drinking in January 2022. She has pleaded not guilty. Her legal team has its own theory that Reed was framed by law enforcement officers to protect two of their own who they say beat up o' Keefe at a house party that night. So far, the defense has brought in new witnesses, revisited controversial testimony, and word around the courtroom is they still have some surprises in store. Here to bring us the latest is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson, who is once again back in the courtroom. Literally, she got a seat. Sue, welcome back.

[Rachel White]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hi, Sue. So now a big question hanging over this trial has been whether the defense would call former Massachusetts state Trooper Michael Proctor to the stand. He was fired in part for his handling of the investigation. So far, the defense has not called him, but Proctor has, you know, remains a big focus of the case. Sue?

[Rachel White]

He does, Totally. Right, Andrea. And we saw them get at that with a new witness they called. His name is Jonathan Diamandis, and he's a childhood friend of Michael Proctor's.

[Andrea Canning]

We've been friends since middle school, approximately 30 years. How often have you texted him over the years? Frequently. And I want to direct your attention to one particular group chat that had nine people on it. Do you know the one I'm referring to? I do.

[Rachel White]

Diamandis was on one of those now infamous text chains where Michael Proctor texted vulgarities about Karen Reid. I'm sure you remember them, Andrea. Yes. And the reason the defense called him is so they could get into those text messages without calling Proctor himself.

[Andrea Canning]

Having reviewed that text chain, is that a true and accurate document? Yes.

[Rachel White]

Now, it was interesting. The defense did not have Diamandis read the text messages, but on cross, the prosecutor asked him if he would. And you know what? Diamandis declined, saying he felt uncomfortable with the language. So the Prosecutor read them.

[Andrea Canning]

Mr. Proctor says she's a whack job and then uses the C word to describe. Is that accurate? That's accurate. He then says, yeah, she's a babe. Weird Fall river accent, though. No ass. Those are Words that he wrote. Those are the words. And then one person in the group says, no ass, bitch. That's accurate, Mr. Proctor. There's a response. Laughed at. Quote, no ass, bitch. Yes. Wow, this is so interesting. What was it like in court as these text messages were read by the prosecution?

[Rachel White]

Well, a couple of the jurors made faces, but I've gotta say, Andrea, that things were about to get a lot more intense in the tiny courtroom that we're in with the next witness.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, let's talk about her. The defense called a woman who had worked as a Canton police officer when John o' Keefe died. What did they ask her about?

[Rachel White]

This was Officer Kelly Dever. And the morning that John o' Keefe's body was discovered, Kelly Dever was working an overnight shift, and she was put on the dispatch desk. And the defense wanted her to talk about what she said she saw. But almost immediately, the interaction between Dever and Alan Jackson, who was leading the questioning for the defense, became combative.

[Andrea Canning]

Ms. Dever, do you want to be here today? I am put on the stand in a murder trial.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I don't know why I'm here. I have no connection to this case.

[Andrea Canning]

You have no idea why you're here. You have never talked to me.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Nobody on the fence seems to talk to me since prior to the first trial. So I don't have any idea why I'm here.

[Rachel White]

So Jackson then started asking Dever questions about what she'd seen in the Sallyport garage at the Canton Police Department that morning. But that's where Karen's SUV was being held. And the reason that Jackson was asking about this is because Dever had been interviewed about what she saw by two other law enforcement agencies in relation to this case. Ultimately, DeVere said she told law enforcement officials that she saw the chief of the Canton Police Department and Brian Higgins, an ATF agent, go into the Sally Port garage where Karen's SUV was and stay for a while.

[Andrea Canning]

Did you tell these law enforcement officers that you, in fact, saw Brian Higgins and Chief Berkowitz go into the Sally Port together and alone with the SUV for a wildly long time?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That was my recollection at the time.

[Andrea Canning]

So you did say that at the time?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That is what I recollected.

[Andrea Canning]

So the reason this is important is that the defense has claimed the police tampered with the taillight on Karen's SUV and planted pieces of it at the crime scene. And they also say that Brian Higgins, who was at the house party that night, had been jealous of John and Karen's relationship. And so they say he had motive to beat John up. So what Dever originally told law enforcement could bolster their theory. But sue, it sounds like she's saying she remembers something different now.

[Rachel White]

So she's saying she has a false memory, that she couldn't have seen what she thought she saw when the previous officers talked to her because the timeline didn't work out.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense released a timeline right prior to the first trial that the vehicle on that day did not arrive in the Sally Port until about an hour and a half after I left. Meaning it is not possible that I saw that the back and forth between this witness and Alan Jackson got very tense. You feel like you're being unbiased in your testimony here today in front of these jurors?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I'm telling the truth.

[Andrea Canning]

You think you're being fair to both sides?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

All I have to do is tell the truth.

[Andrea Canning]

If it's not perceived to be fair.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That'S someone else's opinion.

[Rachel White]

It's rare, you know, Andrea, to see such a hostile witness take the stand. So jurors were riveted, but how they're going to process that testimony is anyone's guess.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense also called a witness we have heard from before, an emergency room doctor and pathologist who spoke about John O' Keefe's injuries.

[Rachel White]

This witness is a woman called Dr. Marie Russell. So she testified that she's dealt with at least 500 dog bite injuries over the course of her very long career, as well as treating many people who had injuries from being hit by cars. And she walked the jury through how, developed her opinion that John o' Keefe's injuries on his arm were caused by dog bites and that they would have had to have happened before John o' Keefe died.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There is ever so slight vital reaction or inflammation around the edges of the wounds, and so that determines that that supports the fact that they were inflicted during life.

[Andrea Canning]

Right out of the gate. No surprise the prosecution came out hard against Dr. Russell.

[Rachel White]

Brannon accused Russell of reaching out to the attorneys and wanting to be involved in this case and also of exaggerating her expertise on dog bites other than this case.

[Andrea Canning]

There was never, ever a time in your career where you were presented with a photo and asked to give an opinion whether the mechanism of injury was a dog bite other than this case. That's correct. You do not have experience over your long accomplished career in the effort of pattern recognition analysis of dog bite wounds. Isn't that fair to say?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Okay.

[Rachel White]

You know, watching in the court on the second day of cross examination of Dr. Russell, it began to feel a bit like a slam dunk for the prosecutor until Russell came back with two points. First of all, she spoke very confidently about how a broken tail light could never in and of itself cause the kind of arm injuries that, that John o' Keeffe had.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There would have to be multiple projections from the vehicle that were lined up in certain pattern to give those parallel marks all in the same direction. So, you know, that's why a broken taillight could not have done that.

[Rachel White]

And she also spoke about how people often blame themselves for accidents, sometimes for years afterwards, calling it acute grief reaction. So basically, she offered an explanation of why Karen might have been asking if she hit John with her car that morning.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, it has been a packed set of days so far. Sue, thank you for coming back and telling us all about this. And we'll see you next week, I'm sure.

[Rachel White]

Thank you, Andrea. Talk soon.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, Josh Mankiewicz will be here to talk about a case he's been covering for years, the murder of Michigan grandmother Deanne Warner at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We believe that shoes are an important part of, well, everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal best, from building pillow forts to building a life. For all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com hey everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom, and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me my podcast Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcasts.

[Sue Simpson]

I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of DATELINE Missing in America. In each episode of Dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery. DATELINE Missing in America Follow now to listen to the first episode. Tuesday, June 10th.

[Andrea Canning]

For our next story, we're heading to Lenaway County Courthouse in Michigan for the latest on a case Josh Mankiewicz and the DATELINE Missing in America team have been following for years the murder of 52 year old grandmother and entrepreneur Deanne Warner. One Sunday in late April 2021, Dee's daughter took her kids over to Dee's farm for breakfast like she did every week. Only Dee was not there. She'd vanished. What followed was the family's desperate search for answers, which Josh Mankiewicz reported on in season one of dateline's Missing in America podcast.

[Sue Simpson]

And what's missing in Dee's story isn't just a beloved mother for her family. What's also missing are answers and perhaps justice.

[Andrea Canning]

Two years later, Josh had an update.

[Sue Simpson]

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, Dale Warner, Deanne's husband, was arrested and charged with murder and tampering with evidence in connection with her disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

Dee's body still hadn't been found until nine months later. Investigators removed a large metal tank from a barn on Dale's farm, X rayed it and discovered a body stuffed inside. It was Dee. The developments didn't stop there. A lot has happened in just the past few weeks, including the filing of a new multi million dollar civil suit and some key decisions in the courtroom as lawyers gear up for trial. Here to bring us up to speed is my friend and colleague, Josh Mankiewicz. Hey, Josh. Hi, Josh, this is the first time you and I have talked about this case since Dee's body was found last fall. What have you learned since then?

[Sue Simpson]

The case is proceeding and it's going to go to trial. You know, there is some evidence of Dale being in the barn where the T was around the time she disappeared. He's pleaded not guilty, but there have been a few things that have happened since then. Her kids have filed a lawsuit. You know, Dee was a businesswoman and owned a trucking company and a lot of property. So I mean, she had some significant assets and her kids have now filed a $100 million lawsuit against Dale.

[Andrea Canning]

Dee's adult children from a previous marriage filed the suit in part because they want to stop Dale from using from Dee's estate for his defense.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, look, I don't know how much money is in Deeze estate, but it's significant what her kids want to do. And I haven't spoken with them, but what I think what they're doing is trying to make sure that if money was the motive, if getting out of that marriage and getting all of her money was, was, was Dale's motive. If he is convicted or if he's acquitted, they want to make sure that he does not get that Money.

[Andrea Canning]

If you listen to the attorney for this wrongful death lawsuit, Todd Flood, he is suggesting that Dale might not be the only one named in this lawsuit. That there are other people at play here.

[Sue Simpson]

Possibly they're hinting at other people, but we don't really know who that is at this point.

[Andrea Canning]

There is one person whose name has come up, and that is Dale's son, Jaron, Dee's stepson. A prosecutor actually charged him in connection to the case, but then they ended up dropping those charges. Josh, what happened with that?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, he was charged with being an accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence. So, you know, I think the assumption at the time was he wasn't there when it happened. But, you know, his dad said, can you help me out? Whatever prosecutors thought at one time, they later did not think that they had any kind of provable case against Jaren. They dropped the charges without prejudice back in May. And what that means is, of course they can refile if they want. Maybe there's going to be some pressure on him to talk, but there is no way to know. And whether Jaren is one of those people that the attorney is hinting will also be added to the lawsuit. We don't know that either.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, and we should say that Jaron's attorney said that he should never have been charged and he denies being involved. On top of all that, Dale appeared remotely in court last week for a motions hearing and his defense team made some oral arguments. One was about a change of venue request.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, I think they're making the argument pretty early that social media buzz and news media coverage is making it impossible for Dale to get a fair trial in Lenaway County. And, you know, I mean, Dee was a well known person there.

[Andrea Canning]

Something that was really interesting, Josh. You know this is trials of the future, right? 2025. Apparently someone from Lenoe county posted on a Justice for D Facebook page, you know how. Giving tips on how to be a stealth juror. Can you explain that for us?

[Sue Simpson]

There was some stuff on, on. On Facebook about how to be a stealth juror, which essentially means, you know, go back over your own social media. And you know that post you wrote where it says, you know, dale Warner should burn in hell? Delete that and delete anything else that you wrote that makes it clear that you have an agenda. I must say, this is the first time I've seen that advice given somewhere.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, me too. This is the first I'm hearing of this. Josh, how did the judge react to all the things we just talked about? That were brought up by the defense.

[Sue Simpson]

Well, I mean, he essentially said that all the media buzz was just too early to be a problem, but denied it without prejudice, meaning they can resubmit at the.

[Andrea Canning]

Fair enough. And Josh, the defense also wanted to stop a prosecution witness from testifying.

[Sue Simpson]

The defense wanted to stop a particular witness from testifying at the trial on the grounds that that witness had given false statements to the media about the case. And the judge denied the defense motion on that, too. And here's the thing. Lying in court is a crime. Lying to reporters is not should be.

[Andrea Canning]

But it's not always so much going on before a trial actually starts. That's what I think people don't realize. Josh so when can we expect Dale to go to trial?

[Sue Simpson]

I mean, it's set for January of next year. That doesn't mean it won't slip. And that is a lovely time of year in Lenaway County.

[Andrea Canning]

Josh, you're working on another season of Missing in America. Your podcast, which just, I have to say, won a Webby. Congratulations.

[Sue Simpson]

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. A brand new season of Missing In America, season four, six brand new missing persons cases debuts June 10th. And it's, it's six episodes which will be released on a weekly basis and they are six very good stories.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, you're doing really good work and we will have you back to talk more about that. Josh, thank you so much for joining us and bringing us this update on Dee Warner. We appreciate it.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, we've got some big updates in Dateline roundup, angry emails and the murder trial of former major League baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. The dramatic moment in court that led to a delay in Lori Valo Debel's latest trial and justice for Crystal Rogers family. Plus, we're joined by a courtroom sketch artist at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We believe that shoes are an important part of, well, everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal bests, from building pillow forts to building a mud for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com hey guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with Ina Garten in front of a lot studio audience for the second ever Sunday Sit down live event. We talked about her rise from home cook to culinary icon with some hosting tips and a proper dessert tray mixed in, too. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. DATELINE True Crime Weekly Andrea Canning and the DATELINE team cover breaking crime news around the country. And now a special series with daily updates from the trial of Sean Combs. I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent Chloe Meloss every day after court about what she's seeing inside the witnesses, the evidence and what it all means. DATELINE True Crime Weekly Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. For this week's roundup, we're joined by DATELINE producer Rachel White. Hey, Rachel.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Rachel, for our first story, we are headed back to a Kentucky courtroom for an update on the trial of Steve Lawson, one of three men charged in connection to the murder of 35 year old Crystal Rogers. Rachel, we talked about this case last week. I know you've been in the courtroom. Just give our listeners a quick refresher on this one.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Sure. So back in 2015, Crystal Rogers, the mom of five, was reported missing by her family. Three months went by and even though her body still to this day has never been found, the local sheriff announced that Crystal was likely dead and that her boyfriend at the time, a man by the name of Brooks Hauck, was a suspect in her disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

No arrests were made until 2023. Eight years later, her boyfriend, who you mentioned, and two other men, a father and son by the names of Steve and Joseph Lawson, they were all charged in connection with her murder. So Steve's trial was up first. What charges was he looking at?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So Steve Lawson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence. And if you remember, just days after Crystal's disappearance, her car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway. Prosecutors alleged that Steve's son, Joseph Lawson, was responsible for driving her car to the parkway and that Steve picked him up.

[Andrea Canning]

Steve pleaded not guilty and took the stand in his defense last week, which is something we don't always see with defendants. What did he have to say?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He admitted to the tampering with physical evidence charge. He said that he did move Crystal's car at the request of her boyfriend, Brooks Hauck, but he said he had nothing to do with her disappearance or her murder and that he didn't know anything about it.

[Andrea Canning]

For a case that went almost a decade without an arrest, this trial moved pretty quickly, just under a week and the jury reached a verdict in about two hours. What was the verdict?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, it went really fast. Steve Lawson was found guilty on Both.

[Andrea Canning]

Charges, Crystal was really close to her mom and this has just been so hard on her family. What was their reaction in the courtroom for any family members who were present?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So just like you've said, I mean, they've been really pursuing justice for Crystal for 10 years at this point. So I think they felt that this was a long time coming and it was an emotional, you know, moment. Crystal's daughter spoke about the fact that her mom was going to miss her upcoming wedding. She's getting married this summer. And, you know, Crystal won't be there to see that happen. So it's very sad.

[Andrea Canning]

There's still so much we don't know about this case, Rachel, and I'm sure we'll find out a lot more when the trial of the two other men begins.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. So Joey Lawson and Brooks Hauck are being tried together and that's scheduled to start at the end of June on Tuesday, June 24. So it's coming up.

[Andrea Canning]

We'll look for updates on that. Up next, another update on the trial of former major league baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He is accused of murdering his father in law, Gary Spore, and the attempted murder of his mother in law, Wendy wood, back in 2021 at their home in Lake Tahoe, California. Sara Feeney has pleaded not guilty. What's happening there?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So the prosecution is still laying out. Their case this week was focused on digital evidence, specifically texts and emails sent between Sara Feeney, his wife Aaron and his in laws in the run up to the shootings. An investigator read some of the messages to the jury and the big takeaway was that there appeared to be a lot of conflict between the couple, Aaron's parents, mainly over money.

[Andrea Canning]

So the language in the, in these text messages is quite heated.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes. So Gary Spoor and Wendy call Sarafeni, quote, belligerent and vicious and call him out for being violent and say he has a temper problem.

[Andrea Canning]

The investigator Rachel also testified about Sarah Feeney's phone activity the day of the homicide, or lack thereof, we should say yes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The investigator looked at the messages Sara Feeney sent from his phone in the month before and the month after his in laws were attacked. And the only day his phone had zero outgoing messages was the day of the homicide.

[Andrea Canning]

Interesting. Moving on to Arizona where court proceedings for Lori Valo Debel's third trial have been delayed following some pretty dramatic scenes in court. She's on trial for charges of conspiring to murder her niece's former husband, Brandon Boudreau. Rachel, what's happening there?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Lori Valo Debel's trial was set to begin jury selection last Friday, but Lori told the judge she was unwell. And so the judge had the 60 potential jurors return on Monday morning. But on Monday, it appeared Lori's illness had only gotten worse, and she arrived to court in a wheelchair and reported that she was too sick to proceed with the jury selection.

[Andrea Canning]

I did not plan on getting sick. I did not try to get sick. This isn't anything to do with anything other than the fact that I'm incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing my. So things only got stranger, Rachel. When the judge told Lori, he checked to see how she was feeling before making her come back to court. And she had quite the reply. Huh? You're welcome to come over to the jail and come to my cell and see how I'm doing in there.

[Sue Simpson]

All right, I'll take a pass on that.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It would be interesting to know how the potential jurors are taking all of this. Judge Bereski brought them in and apologized for the delay and said that that if they were seated for the jury later this week, he'd buy them donuts. A potential juror replied, that'll work, before the group was dismissed.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, always theatrics with Lori. Val Daybell. She was back in court Wednesday, and jury selection did get underway. All right, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Several of the big trials we've been covering recently have had one thing in common. No cameras in the courtroom. Whether it was Steve Lawson' trial for a conspiracy to commit murder that just wrapped up in Kentucky or the federal sex trafficking trial of music mogul Sean Combs underway right now in New York. The only pictures coming out of those courtrooms have been ones sketched by an artist. Our next guest, Christine Cornell, has dedicated her career to capturing iconic courtroom moments and defendants with her sketchpad. Christine, welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.

[Tom Yamas]

Thank you very much.

[Andrea Canning]

And as soon as your face popped up, I knew I've seen you before in the courtroom.

[Tom Yamas]

That's fun.

[Andrea Canning]

I definitely have seen you in New York. So, Christine, you just spent the day at the Sean Combs trial. You probably walk past dozens of cameras outside the courthouse. Do you feel a responsibility to capture what they are not allowed to in that courtroom?

[Tom Yamas]

It's what I do, my dear.

[Andrea Canning]

So tell us about it.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, no, I adore it. You know, people are fascinating. The stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge. And when you're lucky, you make art. And at the very Least you give them what they need to tell the story, you know?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And you're probably covering mostly, you know, higher profile trials. Right. If there's a need for a sketch artist. So.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Tom Yamas]

No traffic court.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Yes. No. Johnny ran a red light. You will not be there. Nope.

[Tom Yamas]

Nope.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Christine, what are some of the trials you've covered that really stand out to you?

[Tom Yamas]

Well, since I've been doing it for 50 years, you know, there's all the Mafia trials, You know, John Gotti and Vinnie the Chin Gigante was an awful, very interesting character. And then there was Leona and Martha and Imelda Marcos, you know, all the queens.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Martha Stewart also. You covered Weinstein as well.

[Tom Yamas]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

When you're drawing them, are you just trying to get it right, like, as close as you can, or are you trying to capture, like, more of a feeling or what, you know, is it. Can you describe that?

[Tom Yamas]

It's both things. You know, you want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them, and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom. You know, you can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and, you know, Cassie. I could see it on her, you know, because, you know, she held her own, but she wept a little. And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life. So, you know, he's in warrior mode.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So you're trying to capture also some personality there then as well. State of mind.

[Tom Yamas]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

How many drawings do you do in a day?

[Tom Yamas]

Three to five or six. After two weeks, I counted that I had done 39 drawings.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay.

[Tom Yamas]

And I haven't added up this next week, but it's, you know, I'm doing a lot.

[Andrea Canning]

This isn't actually the first time you've drawn Sean Combs. You were the sketch artist when he faced trial in 2001, going back in time. And that was for when Sean Combs was accused of firing a gun inside a Manhattan club. He was acquitted of that.

[Tom Yamas]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm curious because this is many years later he's been in, you know, a federal detention center. And so we haven't gotten to see public photos of him. So it's really you, you know, showing us kind of how he's changed and what he's looked like. Tell us about that.

[Tom Yamas]

I think he's been working out a ton.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay.

[Tom Yamas]

He's got a very broad back. He looks solid.

[Andrea Canning]

Solid. Okay.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. And then, of course, everyone's fascinated that he can't get hair dye.

[Andrea Canning]

Is he all gray, then? Nope.

[Tom Yamas]

He's salt and pepper on the sides, a little wider on top. And his little tiny goatee is very white.

[Andrea Canning]

This is all fascinating. You know, there are times where we know that sketch artists get critical feedback sometimes. How do you deal with that? You know, if you hear I've done.

[Tom Yamas]

Very little of it for the most part, I get a lot of affirmation. You know, Puffy Combs. Mom is sitting behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son.

[Andrea Canning]

Really?

[Tom Yamas]

And I said, well, ma' am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my goodness. Do the defendants, do you find them looking at you sometimes? Yeah. Does that make you uneasy at all or just, you know, having the eyes on you?

[Tom Yamas]

You know, I was looking at Puffy on the first day of trial with my binoculars.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, you have binoculars in court?

[Tom Yamas]

Yes, ma' am.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, wow.

[Tom Yamas]

And I will use them even if somebody is not sitting terribly far away from me because I want to see as much as I can see. So anyway, I had my binoculars on him and I see him looking straight at me. So it sort of feels like a social faux pas. I put him down like almost comically.

[Andrea Canning]

Quickly and he went, so Christine, you can't see this, but she's waving. So he was waving at you?

[Tom Yamas]

He did.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, thank you so much for doing this interview.

[Tom Yamas]

You're a sweetheart. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Thanks. Just super interesting. If you want to take a look at some of Christine's sketches, you can find them on our website@dateline truecrimeweekly.com and if you want to catch up on the Sean Combs trial, check out our daily podcast on trial. Every day after court, I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent Chloe Meloss about what she's seen, the witnesses, the evidence and what it all means. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to DATELINE Premium. Next week we'll have more on the Karen Reed retrial and an update on a case we haven't talked about on the podcast before. But it's one DATELINE fans will recognize. The Pam Hupp saga coming up this Friday on NBC. Keith Morrison has a classic Dateline for you. In 1997, a 21 year old electrician was found shot to death on his bedroom floor. Investigators quickly zeroed in on three teenage girls.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I was still in high school, so everyone was saying who they thought did it and everything.

[Andrea Canning]

The detective called and asked you to look in the yearbook.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes, I said, oh, my gosh.

[Andrea Canning]

But it would take years before the plot unraveled. Watch Keith's episode killing Time this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Karloff production and fact checking help by Logan Johnson. Veronica Mazzaka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive executive producer of Dateline. All right, thanks very much.

[Sue Simpson]

Dateline Friday.

[Andrea Canning]

She was a party girl. She was the wild child. They were pretty and popular. Did they plan more than parties?

[Tom Yamas]

Did they really want him killed?

[Andrea Canning]

A mean girls murder. Dateline Friday, 9, 8 Central.