Dateline NBC – “Running Man” (Nov 18, 2025)

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode investigates the murder of Ashley Schwam in Ontario's Blue Mountains, a case initially believed to be a tragic car accident but later revealed as a meticulously planned homicide by her husband, fire captain James Schwam. Through interviews with family, friends, detectives, and forensic experts, the episode unpacks the investigation that exposed deception, calculated planning, and a shocking betrayal within a picture-perfect family.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Apparent Accident and Initial Shock

• Incident Discovery ([03:58–05:59])
  • Volunteer firefighter discovers a burning SUV off Arrowhead Road; an intense fire rages, unusual for a car accident.
  • The body of a woman (later identified as Ashley Schwam) is found inside.
  • The scene raises suspicions—no visible signs of impact with guardrails, the car had apparently slid off a narrow section.

“It wasn’t a crash that somebody should have died in. Was it something else? Was it murder?”
— Detective Sean Glassford [01:31]

2. Identifying the Victim & Notifying Family

• Piecing Together Identities ([06:44–12:00])
  • Car is traced to James Schwam, a respected fire captain.
  • Police struggle to locate both James and Ashley; initial confusion leads some to believe James may be the victim.
  • Ashley’s family and friends learn of her death, triggering profound grief and disbelief.

"She was a sister, an aunt, a friend. He said she had been in a car accident and I just remember screaming."
— Lindsay Milnes (Ashley’s sister) [01:09] and [13:18]

3. Family Portrait: The Schwams

• Background & Community Ties ([14:06–16:16])
  • James and Ashley met in their 20s, married in 2012, and seemed the epitome of happiness.
  • Both came from affluent backgrounds, were involved in community, and had two young children.

"They were a great match."
— Lindsay Milnes [14:26]

4. Early Suspicions and the Investigation Widens

• Forensic Red Flags ([17:10–22:14])
  • Investigators suspect the crash was neither purely accidental nor survivable under normal circumstances.
  • Strange circumstances: no skid marks, no evidence of Ashley hiking that early, other anomalies.

"There was no baking, there was no steering...it really looked like it was pointed right there. Intentionally driven off."
— Det. Jeremy Schiffman [17:32], [22:14]

5. The ‘Running Man’—Critical CCTV Evidence

• Breakthrough Videos ([34:43–36:38])
  • Surveillance footage at ski club parking lot and near the crash site shows a figure — later dubbed "Running Man" — fleeing with a backpack.
  • Timeline reconstructed; police hypothesize the killer staged the crash and ran from the scene.

"Find this Running Man, find your killer."
— Lester Holt [02:01], [36:13]

6. Marital Trouble and Motive

• Affair and Repercussions ([38:49–43:54])
  • Detectives and family learn Ashley had a brief affair with her boss, Steve McDonald.
  • Marital strife ensues, couple attends counseling, Ashley quits her job.
  • Rumors swirl; James exhibits emotional distress in the months leading to the murder.

“She got a call that morning by disguise wife and said you were with my husband, the cheating bastard. If you do not tell your husband... I will.”
— Ian Milnes (Ashley’s father) [39:09]

7. Eliminating Other Suspects

• Multiple Leads Checked ([44:17–46:49])
  • Police rule out Ashley’s ex-boss, his wife, and a contractor with whom Ashley had argued.
  • Focus sharpens on James, especially as his alibi—walking the dog—cannot be verified by security footage.

“That canvas team that was now looking for his route, they don't find him.”
— Det. Jeremy Schiffman [47:01]

8. Forensic and Behavioral Evidence Against James

• Timeline Experiments and Deception Unraveled ([52:19–55:04], [59:10–61:00])
  • Police reconstruct possible run and bike routes, determining the timeline is tight but potentially feasible.
  • Key evidence: texts allegedly from Ashley about gas cans, but CCTV shows James placing these in her car beforehand.
  • Autopsy reveals Ashley died from neck compression before the fire; lighter with James’s initials found in the burned vehicle.

“The shoe was actually a specific snow hiking shoe... He redressed her to get her set up. So everything looked the part.”
— Det. Jeremy Schiffman [59:17]

“A Zippo lighter with the initials JWS. James William Schwam. He's thinking this fire is going to consume everything.”
— Det. Jeremy Schiffman [60:33]

9. The Arrest and Community Shock

• Confronting James ([61:08–63:55])
  • James is arrested outside his house with his children present; his reaction is flat, confusing detectives.
  • Community and firefighter colleagues are stunned; some initially defend James, unable to reconcile the allegations with his reputation.

“I've never heard a response like that after or during an arrest.”
— Lester Holt [61:42]

10. The Full Picture Emerges: Planning & Motive

• Further Evidence and Motives ([66:23–75:52])
  • Testimony emerges that James researched neck breaking and inquired about divorce, alimony, and police procedures.
  • Detectives uncover James' affair with Alexandra McDonald, his attempts to position a new relationship, financial motives including life insurance, and elaborate efforts to stage the death.
  • The use of his mother’s car as a getaway vehicle clinches the logistics of his plan.

“They thought he filled both those cans and later planted them in the back of Ashley's SUV. This is looking like premeditation now to you.”
— Lester Holt [69:02]

11. Confession and Sentencing

• Plea Deal and Impact ([79:34–84:41])
  • With mounting evidence, James agrees to plead guilty to second-degree murder in exchange for a lighter sentence.
  • The victim’s family delivers powerful impact statements; the judge sentences James to life, eligible for parole in 20 years.
  • The sentence is record-setting in Canada for someone with no prior record; contact with his children is barred until they turn 18.

“The judge gave James Schwam life in prison with a chance of parole in 20 years. He will be 58. It's the longest sentence in Canadian history for a person with no prior record.”
— Lester Holt [84:41]

12. Aftermath and Legacy

• Healing, Memorial, and the Sunflower Fund ([85:15–87:20])
  • Ashley’s loved ones hold a memorial event and establish a fund for children affected by domestic violence (“The Sunflower Fund”).
  • Her children are being raised by family and appear to be thriving.

“The Sunflower Fund is for children... victims of domestic violence and abuse. And it's to help them with their camps and their therapy and all of that.”
— Lindsay Milnes [86:17]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the seriousness of the homicide:
  "That's like a whole new level of evil."
  — Lester Holt [03:14], reiterated by Jeremy Schiffman [64:28]

• On forensic confirmation of murder:
  "Ashley did not die in the car fire. There is no soot in the airways and there was no carbon monoxide in her blood... she died from neck compression."
  — Forensic Expert [32:18]

• On community and police disbelief:
  "If he's faking, he deserves an Oscar."
  — Officer to detectives about James’s apparent grief [33:24]

• On the investigation process:
  "As we go about our investigation, the things on the side that he didn't do it start to disappear. And the things that on the side that he did, it starts to get longer."
  — Detective Sean Glassford [56:37]

• On the justice process:
  "It was just so cowardly done."
  — Ian Milnes, victim's father, on James’s actions [83:21]

• On moving forward:
  "We have to move on, right? And she would not want us sitting here being upset."
  — Lindsay Milnes [86:56]

Important Timelines & Timestamps

• [03:58–04:55] – Discovery of the burning SUV and Ashley’s remains.
• [17:32; 22:14; 34:43] – Detectives discuss red flags and why the scene looks staged.
• [35:45–36:38] – “Running Man” appears on CCTV.
• [38:49–43:54] – Affair comes to light and impact on marriage is discussed.
• [47:01–48:47] – James's alibi begins to unravel; security cam experiment proves absence.
• [52:19–54:45] – timeline reconstructions: failed run/bike experiments to check if James could return in time.
• [59:10–61:00] – Evidence of staging: texts, clothing, and the lighter with his initials.
• [61:08–62:24] – Arrest of James Schwam and the effect on his children.
• [65:15–66:23] – Community and media reaction.
• [71:04–71:49] – Discovery of mother’s car being used as a getaway vehicle.
• [79:34–84:41] – Guilty plea, courtroom impact, and sentencing.
• [85:15–87:20] – Memorial, The Sunflower Fund, and family healing.

Episode Tone & Language

• The tone is investigative, somber, and compassionate, with moments of shock and empathy as the full extent of the betrayal and premeditation becomes clear.
• Speaker attribution is clear, with candid, emotional responses from family members, detectives, and friends, reflecting their shock, dismay, and, ultimately, commitment to memorializing Ashley.

Useful for Newcomers

This summary captures the chronological development and dramatic turns in the investigation, presenting the full arc from accident to murder conviction. Key insights, quotes, evidence, and emotional peaks are provided, rendering the story accessible and resonant even for those who haven’t listened to the podcast.

For further detail, listen for these key timestamps:

• [14:06–16:16] – Background on the family and community.
• [32:14–32:52] – Forensic pathologist's critical findings.
• [59:10–61:00] – Discovery of incriminating evidence in the burned vehicle.
• [79:34–81:56] – James’s plea and courtroom developments.
• [85:15–87:20] – The family’s initiative for domestic violence victims.