Talking Dateline: A Killing in Midtown

Summary

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Dateline NBC – Talking Dateline: A Killing in Midtown

Release Date: June 10, 2026
Host: Andrea Canning
Guests: Lester Holt, retired Det. Sgt. John Griffin, Producers Mike Nardi and Allison Orr

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Episode Overview

This “Talking Dateline” episode dives deep into the high-profile “A Killing in Midtown” Dateline special, exploring the shocking daylight assassination of insurance executive Brian Thompson in Manhattan. Host Andrea Canning leads a conversation with Lester Holt—the episode’s correspondent—alongside insight from law enforcement and the production team. The panel unpacks striking details about the crime’s planning and symbolism, the suspect Luigi Mangione’s complex background, how modern surveillance tech cracked the case, and how public sentiment and social media have swirled around the story.

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1. The Midtown Manhattan Murder: Case Summary

[01:54–03:12] Lester Holt, Andrea Canning

• The killing occurred early morning in Midtown Manhattan, as Brian Thompson was heading to an industry investor’s conference.
• Surveillance video shows Thompson being ambushed from behind.
  • “He’s literally ambushed on the streets of New York. And, you know, looking at the tapes, it’s still hard to know whether Brian Thompson was aware that someone was following him.” – Lester Holt [02:10]
• The victims, Brian Thompson (CEO) and suspect Luigi Mangione, had never met before; their lives collided in a shocking, cinematic fashion.

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2. Signs of a Professional Hit: The Silencer and Symbolic Ammunition

[03:13–05:43] Andrea Canning, Lester Holt

• Surveillance shows the assailant using a silencer, rarely seen by NYPD detectives in real cases.

  • “We talked with a detective who in his whole career never saw a silencer used…” – Lester Holt [03:38]

• The assailant’s bullets were hand-marked with phrases like “depose, delay, deny”—a nod to criticisms of health insurance practices.

• This immediately made the crime seem less personal and more pointed at the healthcare system.

• Symbolism & Historical Parallels:

  • References to Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber), who inscribed “FC” (Freedom Club) into bombs.
  • Mangione reportedly had a documented interest in Kaczynski and his manifesto.
    • “We know he had Kaczynski on the mind, but is that part of a motive for murder? We just don’t know.” – Lester Holt [06:03–07:06]

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3. The Enigma of Luigi Mangione: Contradictions and Motive

[07:06–09:10] Andrea Canning, Lester Holt

• Mangione’s life: world traveler, spiritual seeker (Hawaii, Asia, yoga), with no publicly known vendetta against health insurance.
  • “It just feels like two different people… spiritual and light, and then is accused of a crime like this.” – Andrea Canning [08:05]
• Friends recall Mangione discussing flaws in the US healthcare system, but nothing resembling open hatred or rage.
• Investigators remain puzzled about the real trigger, with theories abounding but evidence still unclear.

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4. Surveillance State: Tech’s Role in Solving the Crime

[10:49–13:37] Canning, Holt, Det. Sgt. John Griffin

• Modern New York is blanketed with cameras—city, private, vehicle, even in taxis—enabling detectives to retrace suspects’ steps with unprecedented speed.
  • “They’ve got a ton of uses for us in the investigations world. They’re unbelievable.” – Det. Sgt. John Griffin [12:01]
• Detectives work backward from the scene, looking for moments when the suspect drops their guard.
  • In this case, Mangione slipped by lowering his mask, revealing enough of his face for identification.
  • “He lowered that mask, exposed a little bit of his face, and boom, police suddenly had a face…” – Lester Holt [13:37]
• The video also reveals Mangione’s unique eyebrows, which even became a pop culture talking point.

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5. The Media Circus and Public Response

[16:32–19:58] Andrea Canning, Lester Holt

• Finding willing interviewees among those who knew Mangione was difficult; those involved were tight-lipped due to the ongoing trial.
• The case has ignited passionate reactions on social media—some sympathizing or even idolizing Mangione (the “Mangionistas”).
  • “Free Luigi and his beautiful eyebrows. You know, America rooting for the assassin…” – Andrea Canning [18:42]
• Press passes were controversially issued to these fans, raising concerns from city officials.

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6. The Victim: Remembering Brian Thompson

[19:58–22:33] Lester Holt

• The podcast underscores the human cost: Thompson was a 50-year-old family man from Iowa, a respected executive.
• The Dateline team spoke to his friends, focusing on not letting his life and character become lost amidst broader debates around healthcare and industry ethics.
  • “There is a victim in this case and the victim in this case is Brian Thompson…” – Lester Holt [19:58]
• Parallels emerge between victim and alleged killer: both were high-achieving students from strong families, complicating simple narratives.

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7. Listener Questions & Behind-the-Scenes Insights

[24:11–28:54] Mike Nardi, Allison Orr, Andrea Canning

On Mangione’s Escape and Capture

• Clarifies there’s no evidence Mangione had help while on the run—despite video of him using a cell phone. He was recognized in a Pennsylvania McDonald’s in part due to his distinctive eyebrows.
• His family had filed a missing persons report; San Francisco police who handled the report flagged this to the FBI.

On Mangione’s Background

• Mangione is from a well-known, affluent Baltimore family with businesses in healthcare and other fields.
  • “The Mangione family owns a number of different businesses… including healthcare, assisted living facilities…” – Mike Nardi [27:16]
• Ironically, he was not a person facing the sort of financial or medical hardship his crime was seen to symbolize.

Legal Outlook

• Mangione faces both state and federal charges (with homicide tried first).
• Notable that his defense team includes attorneys renowned for their work on other sensational cases.

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8. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On using a silencer in real life:
  “In his 25 years, [the detective] never saw a silencer, which…we’re so used to it in TV and movies…for an NYPD detective to have never had seen one.”
  – Andrea Canning [03:57]

• On Mangione’s contradictory persona:
  “He’s living in Hawaii…seeking spiritual enlightenment…now he’s alleged to have committed this brutal crime.”
  – Andrea Canning [07:06]

• On Mangione’s capture:
  “Those eyebrows are everything, right?”
  – Andrea Canning [26:04]

• On the press and Mangionistas:
  “Free Luigi and his beautiful eyebrows. You know, America rooting for the assassin…”
  – Andrea Canning [18:42]

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9. Conclusion & Final Thoughts

• The case is still rife with unanswered questions regarding motive, ideology, and the true story behind Mangione’s attack.
• The trial, with its experienced defense team, promises to be watched nationally.
• Dateline will provide ongoing updates as the legal proceedings unfold.

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For More:

• Watch on Peacock or YouTube, or listen via the Dateline podcast feed.
• Submit questions for future “Talking Dateline” segments via @DatelineNBC.

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Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

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[Andrea Canning]

Hey everyone, I'm Andrea Canning and we are talking d Today. We are here with Lester Holt to discuss his episode called A Killing in Midtown. If you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here later. We'll have an extra clip from Lester's interview on the streets of Manhattan with former Detective Sergeant John Griffin. Okay, let's talk dateline. Hey, Lester.

[Lester Holt]

Hey, Andrea. Good to see you.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, good to see you too. Wow, this is a riveting episode. I mean, it was really good because we've all heard this story and we've seen pieces of this story, but this is the first time I've seen the story put all together.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, this, this story, well, it's still unfolding even as we speak. There's a trial in September, but we went back and tried to understand that the people at the center of this, Luigi Mangione, you've heard the name many times, the suspect who will face trial, and then of course, the CEO himself. And Brian Thompson, of course, is center of this because he was walking across the street from his hotel to an investors conference, a big deal in his industry that was about to take place that morning. It's early in the morning, hard for people to understand, but midtown Manhattan is not that crowded actually in the we are, you know, six, seven o' clock hour as this was. So he's literally Ambushed on the streets of New York. And, you know, looking at the tapes, it's still hard to know whether Brian Thompson was aware that someone was following him. It had literally jumped from the shadows. But it all plays out very quickly. These two lives of these two men that none of us knew suddenly collided in an incredible fashion.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And you know, you see Brian's back to his assailant, and it seems like Brian Thompson, as you said in the piece, is walking into a trap. And then like out of a movie on this surveillance video, you see this assailant lift up a gun. I mean, I froze it because I just. I just looked at it for a few seconds. The assailant just standing there with this very professional looking weapon.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah. And you look. And many of us have seen certainly in the movies, you know, the, the bad guy puts on the silencer on the gun. We talked with a detective who in his whole career never saw a silencer used in this sort of thing. So that in itself said, wow, this is professional. Or someone who wants to give the impression certainly that this is professional.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I was really surprised by that detective saying that. What was it? In his 25 years, he'd never seen a silencer, which I guess we're so used to it in TV and movies, people using these silencers that for an NYPD detective to have never had seen one.

[Lester Holt]

Incredible. And of course, they later, as part of the evidence, is a. Is a gun that police say they recovered. He did apparently have in his possession a gun with a silencer.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, well, speaking of that gun, one of the things that sent me down the rabbit hole, Lester, was like, you know, the bullets that handwritten on them was depose, delay, deny, which is, you know, apparently the criticism of how health insurance companies handle claims. And I started looking into it. Cause I felt like I had seen it. And this has happened where things are written on bullets, maybe with a Sharpie or they can even be inscribed permanently into the ammunition. And so there was the ICE field office shooting in Dallas. The shell casing said anti ice the murder of Charlie Kirk. Hunters apparently would inscribe or have inscribed inspirational messages on their casings, even back to World War II bullets and bombs. They would, they would write things on the. On the ammunition.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah. I mean, immediately, you know, made a statement. Also immediately made it very clear to investigators this was not about this victim's private life. This was something bigger than that. And with those cartridges, there were two of them that had been spent, had been fired. There was another one that had not been Fired. But they immediately clued investigators in that this was likely over the health. The state of the healthcare system.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. And it really. One thing that seemed to come full circle. Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, apparently he used to inSCribe the letters FC into parts of his bombs, which those letters, he explained, stood for Freedom Club. You learned that Luigi Mangione had an interest in Ted Kaczynski.

[Lester Holt]

So, well, before Mangione was a suspect or before the murder, he lived in Hawaii. He was part of a tech community. They established a book club at one point. One of the books they read was the manifesto by the Unabomber. Many people subsequent to the murders have. Have thought that maybe that pointed to a motive in this case. But we talked to a journalist who has been heavily covering the story, who said that they were never able to make a linkage between that book club and. And the subject being Kaczynski and his. The. The murder he was later charged with.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. But he did go on, though, to talk about Ted Kaczynski. So clearly the Unabomber was on his mind.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah. And. And he basically concluded that the Unabomber in this case take his in. He got it all wrong because he hurt innocent people. So he did later talk about that in some of his writings, which. Which do become key in this case and likely in the trial. So. So we know he had Kaczynski on the mind, but is that part of a. A motive for murder? We just don't know.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, there's such a. A contradiction with Luigi Mangione. You know, he's. Here he is. You know, he's. He's traveling like. He's living in Hawaii. He's traveling to places like Japan, other places in Asia, Thailand, seeking spiritual enlightenment, you know, and now he's alleged to have committed this. This brutal crime. You know, it just. It just feels like two different people.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, there was a lot going on. We know that he had chronic back problems, and that's important because one of the things that he did in Hawaii was seek treatment. Someone had turned him on to a yoga instructor who promised that he could help alleviate his pain, and he apparently did just that. He did visit this yoga teacher. He did receive some therapy, and by accounts that we've seen, he was pleased with the results and actually started to feel much better.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it just. It's strange, though, when you think of someone who's spiritual and light and then is accused of a crime like this, it's like. It just. It's like it doesn't add up. And then the other thing that people kept saying was that he didn't seem to express any hatred for the insurance companies. You know, on, on this journey of his. Like he wasn't going after them or talking about them constantly. So it's like, where did it come from?

[Lester Holt]

We understand that at one point while he was in Thailand, he was talking to an English speaker and the subject apparently came up of healthcare systems, you know, comparing against the US and it sounds like it wasn't a heated discussion, but he pointed out that, you know, that there were issues with the American healthcare system as compared to some of the others overseas. And keep in mind, this conversation is taking place overseas. What we have is a lot of strands in this story that start to, to move together. You're like, aha, here we go. Here's the motive. And boom, you know, we're left wondering.

[Andrea Canning]

Still after the break, we are going to have more of your interview with retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin about surveillance cameras in New York City.

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[Andrea Canning]

I loved seeing you out on the streets, you know, with the detective and great interviews by the way, with these retired detectives that we're able to actually talk about this because we haven't really heard anyone, you know, talk about it like this yet in depth from law enforcement. So to see them talk about the surveillance cameras in New York City. It's just so interesting how we've turned into this society where every corner you turn, there's a camera watching you. And you talked about how these detectives can just sit at their desks and pull up and any camera in the city. It's really remarkable. Lester, let's take a listen to more of your interview with retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin, who really painted this picture for us of just all the cameras that are in New York City.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

Every single one of these buildings probably has a camera. And a lot of these. A lot of the vehicles going by have cameras on them. I mean, it's in this. I mean, we're lucky. In this city, you can't. Especially in Manhattan, you're covered.

[Lester Holt]

Are those used primarily as traffic cameras or just.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

They're for traffic, they're for events, they're for helping solve crimes. Yeah. They're for monitoring things going on. I mean, if you know there's something going on here, like a. Like a minor demonstration that you don't want to send people to, you can watch it from there and make sure everything's going all right. I mean, it's. They've got a ton of uses for us in the investigations world. They're unbelievable.

[Lester Holt]

First thing you ask for. Now, where's the video?

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

That's all anybody wants. Now, you see that little bulb under there? And that can scan this whole 360 right here.

[Lester Holt]

Wow.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

Yeah. It's incredible. And like I said before this, we used to laugh in the homicide squad. We said it was a lot like Deadliest Catch.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

Once you leave port, you don't come back without fish. And they would go out for 8, 10 hours at a time getting what they can, and then the next day do the same thing.

[Mike Nardi]

Wow.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

And imagine doing that without all the help we had. You know, in a routine case, you have one or two guys doing this.

[Lester Holt]

That's hard to imagine.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

And then you have to go back and watch it.

[Mike Nardi]

Yeah.

[Lester Holt]

But if it's your video, it must be easier.

[Retired Detective Sergeant John Griffin]

Our video's. It's a game. It's so much easier. And the big thing about our video is that it's set up so you can see long stretches so you don't have to pull the video from here. When you lose him down there at that corner or two corners down, now you hop down there, and that's where

[Andrea Canning]

you pick it up.

[Lester Holt]

Pick him up. Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Imagine how many crimes must be solved in New York from these cameras. I'm sure the number is huge.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, you see them up there. I mean, we're all aware of them. Kind of vaguely aware, but yeah, when you start multiplying, okay, you've got city and police cameras now. You've got, you know, every building owner has a. Has a camera. I've been in taxis now where they've got cameras. So there is a wealth of information, but someone still has to do the tedious hard work of going through it, matching it, and creating a timeline. If something happened at that particular corner, a detective sitting at his desk, it believes headquarters can go right on and retrieve the pictures there. And then they begin linking it to the pictures to the next place they see the suspect and so on and so forth. What's important here, Andrea, is police say, their best investigative tool in this kind of case. Of course, you want to pull the cameras, but you also want to pull them in a way that you're basically working backwards. You want to know where the killer or the suspect has been, and that will help inform as to where he may go. Why is that important? Because that's how they uncovered the slip in this case. They always wait for that moment. The suspect drops his or her. In this case, he lowered that mask, exposed a little bit of his face, and boom, police suddenly had a face to go in this manhood that was huge.

[Andrea Canning]

They. And you see him smiling at one point. You also can see those eyebrows. You know, that's what everybody was talking about, the eyebrows. And he even talks about it in this. It was like a to do list that he had to pluck his eyebrows.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, he apparently, you know, based on his writings, had prepared for being. Having a life on the. And taking certain precautions. I mean, smart guy. Clearly aware that there's cameras. I mean, who doesn't know there's cameras now? I suppose.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And, you know, going backwards is when the, you know, the assailant may be less on guard right before they've committed a crime versus after, when you're going to be doing everything you can to hide your face.

[Lester Holt]

Obviously, you catch me a week ago, and I'm thinking about doing this murder, but I'm not. My security is not up to snuff. Then you take me a day or hours before the murder. I'm now on guard now because. Because I might get found out. I think that's the. The mentality that they want to work off of and exploit if they can. The investigators.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, because you still can get away with something if you're wearing a mask, if you have a hood on, if I mean, cameras, they're not X ray cameras, they can't see through that. So you do have to keep looking and looking and looking and waiting for your suspect to slip up, which is what they say happened here. So obviously he has discovered Luigi mangione in Altoona, Pennsylvania. What was happening with the McDonald's workers? Did they not want to participate yet in Dateline or were they told not to because of the trial coming up? What was the deal with that?

[Lester Holt]

I can tell you in general, this has been a very difficult story to get people to step forward. By now I think we've established this is not a typical murder story. This is not a typical crime. Yeah, this was a case of rage, a kind of a simmering rage out there that we were able to tap into about the ethics and practices of the healthcare industry. It started more than a nationwide conversation, kind of an outpouring, and people say, you know, well, of course I'm against violence, of course I'm against murder, but. And it's that. But that always kind of really changes the conversation.

[Andrea Canning]

Do you remember the movie John Q with Denzel Washington?

[Lester Holt]

Well, I sure do, yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And so I'll just read like really quickly. It's a devoted father whose young son collapses and is diagnosed with an enlarged heart. When he discovers that the family's health maintenance organization, HMO insurance policy, will not cover the cost of a life saving heart transplant and his own resources are exhausted, he takes drastic measures. Driven by desperation, he takes the hospital's emergency room hostage to force the medical board to put his son's name on the transplant list. And you know, I, it's, it just seemed like it, it just popped into my head, that movie when I heard about this case, thinking that like Luigi Mangione has been done wrong by United Healthcare somehow, like they denied his back surgery or, you know, I'm making that up, but there's like nothing there, which is so odd.

[Lester Holt]

United Health Care says they never had a Luigi Mangione on their, on their insurance rolls. It's very odd because as I said, there are so many strands keep leading you to, toward a conclusion. And then it just, it's like cotton candy just kind of melts away in your, in your mouth. But you know, obviously some of this will come out, maybe all of it will come out in trial. And the question, from a legal standpoint, when we talk about trial, you know, will they be able to find a jury who can set aside any issues with the healthcare industry? Because, you know, it's not out of the Realm of possibility, the defense may make this a trial not about murder, but about the health care industry.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. I mean, yeah, there was so much fanfare, Lester, from the very beginning, I think, you know, all these elements, right, like the, the chase, the, you know, searching for this, the suspect, the bullets, you know, then finding this, this alleged shooter in the McDonald's and even bringing him back to New York. I mean, off of that helicopter. It, I swear it looked like El Chapo was arriving in the city. You know, it was intense, right? And so there's all these people now who are, who support Luigi Mangione. And you showed some of the clips, you know, from social media. Free Luigi and his beautiful eyebrows. You know, America rooting for the assassin. And then we have these ladies more recently outside of court, they call themselves the Mangionistas. And they actually were able to get press passes for court. And the, it sparked a review of press passes. Mayor Mamdani, you know, said that they, they probably shouldn't have had these passes, but didn't. Also didn't say he was going to revoke them. But it's just another element to all of this.

[Lester Holt]

And that's one of the things we talked about with one, with one of Mr. Thompson's friends and former colleagues who's just devastated that there are people who think somehow that he may, Mr. Thompson may have deserved to be murdered. I speak in this hour, as you know, I speak to an activist who was part of the fundraising mechanism that created a legal defense fund for the killer. And this is before we knew that Mangione was going to be a suspect. This thing was started very early on. So, but so going into this, we certainly couldn't ignore that there is this, this simmering outrage out there. At the same time, we wanted to, you know, show who Brian Thompson was. Family man, 50 year old, father of two, a Midwest guy who wanted to go back to Iowa. We wanted to tell part of his story and remind that, you know, there is a victim in this case and the victim in this case is Brian Thompson. You know, even speaking to the detectives, we talk to them about how they feel about investigating a murder in which the potential killer is being, you know, cheered on. And they take it very seriously because as one of them pointed out, you know, as a, as a detective, we've had a knock on a lot of doors and inform people that their, their loved one has, has died, you know, by homicide or some other horrible occurrence. And the fact that, you know, someone's life can be cheapened in such a way and gunned down on the streets because you may not like their industry. They take very, very seriously.

[Andrea Canning]

I tend to feel the same way with the detectives. I mean, this is what we do on dateline. We interview families every week, you know, who have lost a loved one to murder. And that is not lost on me. And that is a fear of mine for this country that people are glorifying mur because they don't like, as you said, the industry. I think it's wrong. Brian Thompson has two children, a wife, a family, you know, and there's so many parallels almost, I hate to say it, but between Brian Thompson and alleged killer Luigi Mangione, that they were both valedictorians of their high school, they were both smart, you know, they both came from these, you know, one had more privilege than the other, but it seems like they came from good families, you know, so there were some similarities there.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, it's really this is a story about how those two lives and, you know, collide in this spectacularly awful fashion.

[Andrea Canning]

Lester, thank you so much for bringing us this story and this really fascinating conversation.

[Lester Holt]

Of course.

[Andrea Canning]

And of course, Lester will also bring you any updates. Breaking news, updates on this case on dateline, True Crime Weekly. Coming up after the break, Mike Nardi, DATELINE producer who produced this episode, and senior producer Allison Orr will be here to answer your social media questions.

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[Andrea Canning]

welcome back everyone. And Alison and Mike, thank you for Joining us for this social section.

[Allison Orr]

Hey, Andrea.

[Mike Nardi]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Great job on the story. Thank you. So our first question is from Ashley. It's either day or die. I'm not sure how to pronounce her last name on Facebook. About Luigi Mangioni's movements after his alleged role in Brian Thompson's murder. So Ashley wrote, he mentioned he was a lone wolf, but was anyone helping him evade custody after his plan was complete and his face was on the news, did he have a mission to do more harm? Do we know if. If there's any more intel on that?

[Mike Nardi]

One thing that was interesting is that some of the video that has not been released, we've been told that it shows the suspect on a cell phone. And so there was speculation at the time that maybe he was working with someone, but there's certainly been no indication from the authorities that that's true.

[Allison Orr]

And obviously, his face was all over the place. He was recognizable enough that the people in a McDonald's in Pennsylvania recognized him. And so I'd always wondered, did his family recognize him? I have a son in his 20s. I'd recognize my son if I saw half of his face on tv. So. And we do have. There is reporting out of San Francisco that his family had filed a missing persons report, and there is reporting that the police officer who took that missing persons report recognized him and there was contact with the family before his capture. And also. Right, Mike. That the. The officers who recognized him from the missing persons report turned that information over to the FBI. Now, there's also no evidence that that information having gone to the FBI had anything to do with his capture. And in fact, we're not even sure that that information, obviously, his name was never made public. We don't even know if it made it to the NYPD who was helping with the investigation. So there is, you know, people did recognize him.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Those eyebrows are everything, right? Okay. This is a comment from Renee Ebert. Well, I was hoping to learn more about Luigi, but he clearly remains a mystery. I gave up watching the Knicks for Dateline, and I am happy I did. Very well done. His trial will be fascinating. So I didn't work on this story, but I did have a conversation with a friend last night who went to the same school as Luigi, and he said it is extreme wealth at this school. And I'm not saying Luigi is extreme wealth. Just there are kids at this school of extreme wealth. And my friend also told me that, you know, the family is somewhat well known in Baltimore. And he said that people see Luigi's grandfather as having done a lot of good in the area.

[Mike Nardi]

Yeah. I think that certainly matches Andrea, with what we learned about the Mangione family. From what we understand that his grandfather sort of started with nothing and sort of built some businesses. And from there, the Mangione family owns a number of different businesses that they operate. And so I think.

[Andrea Canning]

Including healthcare.

[Mike Nardi]

Healthcare, right. Assisted living facilities. And I think that, I think it's certainly fair that we report that the family is wealthy as business owners, and they were able to send Luigi Mangione to this really prestigious school full of the wealth that you describe.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. These are among the wealthiest kids in the Baltimore area. Yeah.

[Allison Orr]

And whether Luigi was among the wealthiest of. Among the wealthiest, we don't think so. But it is interesting questions because the crime has brought up all of this angst in society about the cost of healthcare. And yet you're looking at this person who's become a symbol of this. And it does not make sense that he personally, in his personal life would have been, you know, somebody with medical debt like so many people in America are saddled with. So it's, it's an interesting question, and maybe we'll learn more about it at trial.

[Andrea Canning]

What's interesting with Luigi Mangione is that he's going to have to go on trial for state court and federal court. We're starting with state court.

[Mike Nardi]

Yeah. So the state trial is gonna happen first. And this is the murder charge that he's facing. The federal charges are stalking, but really the focus is gonna be on this state case, the murder case. This is the trial for that.

[Allison Orr]

And what's interesting is his defense team includes members of the same defense team that just recently defended Sean Combs in federal trial and defended Harvey Weinstein on his retrial. Both of those cases were considered defense wins. Sean Combs was only convicted of lesser charges. The Harvey Weinstein recent trial ended in a mistrial, which is seen as a victory for the defense. So we should expect something very interesting from them.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, Allison and Mike, thank you so much for bringing us this episode along with Lester and for coming on today to talk dateline.

[Mike Nardi]

Thanks, Andrea.

[Allison Orr]

Okay. Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for talking DATELINE this week. Remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can DM us your audio or video on our socials at DATELINE NBC or leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured right here. And you can watch the video version of this talking DATELINE on Peacock or YouTube or or subscribe to the NBC News app. Plus, Keith has a brand new podcast series you don't want to miss. It's called five Miles from Home, about a high school student's disappearance after track practice in a small Nevada casino town. The race to find her led to unlikely suspects, simmering rage, and unimaginable betrayal. You can listen to the first two episodes now, wherever you get your podcasts, for early access to subsequent episodes and to listen to Listen to all Dateline podcasts ad free. Subscribe to Dateline Premium. We'll see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.

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