Talking Dateline: Center of the Storm

Summary

Dateline NBC: Talking Dateline – "Center of the Storm"

Release Date: June 25, 2025

In the "Talking Dateline: Center of the Storm" episode, hosts Blaine Alexander and Andrea Canning delve deep into one of Dateline NBC's most gripping cases: the trial of Karen Reid, accused of fatally backing her car into her boyfriend, John O'Keefe, a Boston police officer, on a snowy January night in 2022. This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the case's complexities, the public's polarized reactions, and the profound impact on all parties involved.

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Overview of the Karen Reid Case

The episode begins with a detailed recounting of the incident involving Karen Reid and John O'Keefe. Accused of intentionally killing O'Keefe by driving her car into him while intoxicated, Reid's case quickly became a focal point of intense media scrutiny and public debate. Supporters of Reid contested the charges, alleging that she was framed in a larger police cover-up and that fellow officers were responsible for O'Keefe's death during a house party incident.

Andrea Canning highlights the controversial nature of the case:

“It's a tricky, tricky, tricky.” ([23:58])

Public Reaction and Polarization

Blending comparisons to the infamous O.J. Simpson case, Alexander and Canning discuss how Karen Reid's trial captivated a broad audience, drawing in both true crime enthusiasts and casual listeners alike. The public's response was sharply divided, with opinions mirroring political affiliations. Many viewers engaged fervently on social media, either staunchly supporting Reid or vehemently condemning her actions.

Andrea Canning reflects on the divided public opinion:

“It wasn't even like lopsided of like, you know, one feeling or the other. It was so divided, like split right down the middle.” ([02:36])

Trial Proceedings and Verdict

After a tumultuous first trial in 2024 that ended in a hung jury, the retrial concluded with a definitive verdict. Canning provides a vivid account of the courthouse atmosphere during the announcement, describing the emotional chaos both inside and outside the courtroom. Supporters of Reid displayed unwavering enthusiasm, chanting and celebrating loudly, while O'Keefe's family members remained visibly distraught.

Blaine Alexander captures the emotional moment of the verdict:

“You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store... And when you listen, you get the truth for NBC News.” ([00:00]) – Context of journalistic responsibility.

Differences Between the First and Second Trials

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the contrasts between the initial trial and the retrial. The second trial saw a shift toward presenting more scientific data and analytics, with a new prosecutor adopting a more methodical approach. Unlike the first trial, which leaned into conspiracy theories and testimonies suggesting Reid was framed, the retrial emphasized concrete evidence supporting Reid's culpability.

Andrea Canning notes the prosecutorial strategy:

“They still went after him hard in the closing.” ([12:45])

Juror Insights and Emotional Impact

The episode features an emotional account from Michael Proctor, a juror who witnessed the intense reactions during the verdict announcement. Proctor describes the profound impact of realizing how the jury's decision brought simultaneous joy and sorrow to different groups present.

Proctor shares his emotional response:

“...when you hear that, people screaming out of happiness... I just closed my eyes and cried.” ([08:17])

This perspective underscores the weight of the jurors' responsibility and the far-reaching consequences of their verdict.

Interviews with Key Figures

Michael Proctor:
In an exclusive clip, Proctor vehemently defends Reid's innocence, rejecting the conspiracy theories presented during the trial. He asserts,

“The truth is Karen Reed backed into John o' Keefe with her vehicle. There's no conspiracy.” ([17:22])

Elizabeth Proctor:
Michael Proctor's wife opens up about the personal toll the case has taken on their family. She discusses discovering the incriminating text messages and the subsequent strain on their lives, including Michael losing his job.

“It's been very hard on her... he's trying to get his job back.” ([16:27])

Beth O'Keefe:
John O'Keefe's sister, Beth, provides a heartbreaking account of the family's anguish following the verdict. Speaking shortly after the trial, she expresses disbelief and pain over what transpired:

“It's impacted more than just, you know, my family... lives have changed, not for the better.” ([22:35])

Media Coverage and Juror Experience

Canning and Alexander explore the evolution of media coverage between the two trials, noting the increased presence of social media influencers and the strategic use of Dateline interview clips to challenge Reid's credibility. They also discuss the logistical changes in media access to the courtroom, highlighting the switch to a lottery system to manage the influx of reporters and spectators.

Andrea Canning observes the shift in media strategies:

“They were trying to show some inconsistencies with Karen and her interviews.” ([14:20])

Concluding Reflections

The episode concludes by emphasizing the profound and lasting impact of the Karen Reid case on all involved. Canning poignantly reminds listeners of John O'Keefe's legacy and the deep sense of loss felt by his family, juxtaposed against Reid's rising notoriety and the unwavering support from her followers.

Andrea Canning underscores the case's complexity:

“We're just seeing a case through very different lenses from all these different people.” ([23:58])

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Final Thoughts

"Talking Dateline: Center of the Storm" offers an in-depth exploration of a case that has captivated the nation, showcasing the intricate interplay between legal proceedings, media coverage, and public sentiment. Through candid interviews and thoughtful analysis, Andrea Canning and Blaine Alexander provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the events surrounding Karen Reid and John O'Keefe, highlighting the enduring fascination and contentious debates that true-crime stories inspire.

Transcript

[Tom Yamas]

Taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth for NBC News.

[Tom Galmas]

For NBC News, I'm Tom Galmas.

[Tom Yamas]

That's what we do every night, NBC.

[Blaine Alexander]

Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC.

[Jenna Bush Hager]

Hey everyone, it's Jenna Bush Hager from Today with Jenna and Friends, reminding you to check out my podcast, Open Book with Jenna and this week's episode, I Sit down with Adriana Triggiani and Isaac Fitzgerald. You won't want to miss their summer reading picks and book recommendations for the whole family. You can listen to the full conversation now by searching Open Book with Jenna wherever you get your podcast.

[Blaine Alexander]

Hi everyone, I am Blaine Alexander and today we are talking dateline. I am joined by the one only, Andrea Canning. Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

So this episode is called center of the Storm. If you haven't seen it, you can find it in the DATELINE podcast feed. So make sure to go there and listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. Here's a quick recap. Karen Reid was accused of killing her boyfriend, John o' Keefe, a Boston police officer, by drunkenly backing her car into him on a snowy January night in 2022. But Reid and her many supporters argued that's not true. They said that she was framed as part of police cover up and that o' Keefe was actually killed by his fellow officers at a house party. Andrea's latest episode on the case takes us through the retrial after Reid's first trial in 2024 ended in a hung jury. Andrea shares how the jury finally reached a verdict this time around. And she also talks to the former state trooper right at the heart of this case, the man Karen Reed has accused of coordinating the COVID up, Michael Proctor. For this talking DATELINE episode, Andrea's got two extra clips that didn't make it into the show, one from her interview with Proctor and a second clip from her interview with one of John o' Keefe's family members after the verdict. All right, Andrea, so let's talk dateline.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's do it.

[Blaine Alexander]

So I have to say that in my brief time at dateline, I've gotten texted about a lot of stories, but there are none that people have reached out to me, more about than Karen Reed. I think people who aren't even interested in, in true crime or court are really, really fascinated by this story. So I'm very excited to talk to you about this today.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I know it's been a wild one as far as just people wanting to give you their input. I don't think I've ever been on a story with this many opinions and this many armchair detectives. I posted just a clip on Instagram, on my personal Instagram, a video I took. Yeah, I had so many comments and it was like one was for her, the next one was against. Then the next one was for her, the next one. Like, you know, it wasn't even, it wasn't even like lopsided of like, you know, one feeling or the other. It was so divided, like split right down the middle. It felt like, like politics almost like, you know, like you're a Republican or you're a Democrat, you support Karen Reid or you don't support Karen Reid. Like, and people are digging in, right? And they, they want to tell you why they, you know, think she's innocent or who's bad in this story. You know, they all have their opinions about the players as well.

[Blaine Alexander]

So after all this time, we're talking about three years, two trials, finally there's a verdict in this case. And I mean, this was a tremendous news story when the verdict was reached. It was, I'm curious, you were there, you were in Massachusetts. When the jury came back, what was it like out there?

[Andrea Canning]

First, what happened? It was so strange. They said that there was a verdict and we're like, oh my gosh, there's a verdict. Okay. And then, no, there's not a verdict. So the jury had knocked on the door saying verdict and then changed their minds.

[Blaine Alexander]

Oh.

[Andrea Canning]

So I thought, okay, like, I guess this isn't happening today. And then not too long after we hear there is a verdict.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

We left this room that we were in, we went down the hall in the courthouse, sat down on the bench.

[Blaine Alexander]

Uh huh.

[Andrea Canning]

And there were some people, some Karen Reid supporters who were in the courthouse, just like a few of them. And these people started crying in front of us. Just the few people, they were crying, they were freaking out. And then we decided to hightail it outside. So we went out the front doors where everyone was waiting. And by the way, in the courthouse you could. It was like the courthouse was shaking. It was so loud outside. I mean, when the verdict came in, the cheers were so loud because there were so many people and they were all for Karen Reid outside.

[Blaine Alexander]

And to be clear, these are just random people. We're not talking about family, people with any stake in this. We're talking about just people who are.

[Andrea Canning]

Just Karen Reid supporters, you know, dressed in pink. And so we, you know, we went outside, and then you could feel that energy of these people waiting for Karen Reed, you know, to come outside. And when she came out, it was like they just erupted in cheers. And even before that, they were chanting things like, you know, lock up Michael Proctor. And they were cheering, Auntie Bev has to go. The judge.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

So they were just, you know, everything was about Karen, Karen, Karen for them. And she came out, they all cheered, and then she spoke into. There were many, many microphones, and it was so loud that the audio was picked up, of course, for the news, but you couldn't hear a word of what she was saying because we were standing there. It was just so loud. And, I mean, with the exception maybe of, like, the O.J. case, you know, like, I. I don't. I can't really think of a case that has had this much attention, this many people show up, you know, get this heated about it, this divided, you know, it definitely had, like, shades of O.J.

[Blaine Alexander]

I think that's what's so unbelievable about this, because. Yes, even as you're describing it, I was thinking OJ that everyone had a feeling one way or the other. People were angry, people were upset, people were cheering or whatever.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, I think the other one is the other case that you're kind of in the middle of. Right. In the middle of covering, which is the Diddy trial. Right. I mean, that one is. Everybody's watching, everybody has a thought, everybody's following along. And it's just interesting that we're in this time of cases, you know, criminal cases, really being followed super closely like this and being so polarizing.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. People are just seem to be getting more and more into these cases, you know, where they feel they can dig in or where they feel there's wrongdoing or maybe the person's famous in Diddy's case, you know, could be different reasons, but definitely getting all in on these cases.

[Blaine Alexander]

The interesting thing about Karen Reid, though, I mean, Diddy obviously was a massive celebrity, is a massive celebrity, so people can understandably be interested in that. Karen Reid was not a celebrity before, but this case has kind of catapulted her to that status.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. I know, I know. It's like her name, you know, if. I mean, how many people at this point now have not Heard the name Karen Reid. Right. It's. It's everywhere.

[Blaine Alexander]

She's also received money from supporters.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, she has made no bones about it. She needs money, and she still needs money. So, you know, she's still paying off the legal bill. As far as I understand. She has a civil trial coming up, you know. Yeah. We had a clip in the show about somebody who gave her, like, a gift certificate or whatever to go buy suits, you know, for like. Yeah, yeah, a suit. I actually had wondered that. She always seemed so, like, impeccably dressed, and I'm like, how's she affording all. Maybe she already owned these clothes or. But then you find out that there's people supporting her in more ways than one.

[Blaine Alexander]

We also heard from a juror in this. NBC Boston's Sue o' Connell interviewed a juror to kind of hear her feelings about the public's reaction to the verdict. It's always interesting to hear from jurors, so let's listen to some of that sound.

[Andrea Canning]

Talk to me about the reaction when.

[Tom Galmas]

The verdict was read and the crowd outside screamed and cheered.

[Michael Proctor]

I. To be honest with you, I don't remember what happened in that courtroom that moment, because once I heard the people outside, I just closed my eyes and I started crying and I left the courtroom without looking to anyone. I did not expect to hear it because through the whole trial, we didn't hear anything on a jury room. We did not saw many people outside because we come from the back of the courthouse. So we would see someone walk with a pink shirt here and there, but that was it. Never hear chanting or comments or laughing or yelling or booing. Nothing. And particular to me when I heard that, people screaming out of happiness. At the same time, I was seeing Jung Wookiee's family crying out of sadness, and that broke my heart. So that moment, I kind of understood how big this case was and how we are making someone happen and we're making a lot of other people sad, too. So I don't remember what happened. Quarter on that moment, I just closed my eyes and cried.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, that really sticks out. We're making some people happy and then we're making some people sad.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And that's really. She just boiled it down in that one sentence. Yeah. And that. That must have been just such a weird feeling to know that your decision, you know, set that off, that, you know, that wave of cheers and excitement and commotion outside and that, like.

[Blaine Alexander]

Realizing the magnitude of the moment, that it brought her to tears. I thought that was so interesting. Just kind of there had to have been obviously, as a juror, you're kind of just focused on the facts and that's the moment when all of the outside world comes rushing in. So I could see how that would be emotional, I guess. After the break, Andrea has an extra clip from her interview with former trooper Michael Proctor.

[Yasmin Vesugian]

This is your moment, your time to shine your comeback. You're ready for the next step in your career and you want an education employers respect. So you're not just going back to school. You're coming back with Purdue Global. Backed by Purdue University, one of the nation's most respected public universities, Purdue Global is built for people who bring their life experience into the online classroom. Purdue Global, Purdue's online university for working adults. Start your comeback today at purdueglobal.

[Morgan Chesky]

Edu.

[Brian Chung]

As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with here's the Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News. With me, your host, Yasmin Vesugian, along with Morgan Chesky and Brian Chung. We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News trusted journalists. It's a fresh take that's sharp, thoughtful, and it's informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world. From the front page to the zeitgeist, all in 15 minutes or less. Here's the scoop from NBC News. Listen daily on Apple Podcasts.

[Jenna Bush Hager]

Hey, everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hanna, Ego Wodom, and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcast.

[Blaine Alexander]

Let's talk about the trial itself. I'm curious and I'm sure a lot of people are curious. For those who watch the first, the second, what are some of the big differences that kind of stood out?

[Andrea Canning]

The second trial seemed to focus more on to me, it seemed science data. You know, it had a different prosecutor. He seemed to take a more analytical approach, I would say, you know, versus the first one. They definitely in the first trial were more in leaned more into the conspiracy, you know, the framing Michael Proctor testified, you know, they had him read the texts. But I mean they still did that though in number two like they Alan Jackson in his closing said, don't Let Michael Proctor win. Michael Proctor, the former trooper, is the boogeyman, you know? And so even though Michael Proctor did not testify and was not called by either, was not called by the prosecution, was not called by the defense, this is the lead investigator.

[Blaine Alexander]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

Which is so rare. Right. They still went after him hard in the closing.

[Blaine Alexander]

It shows how much he just hangs over this entire case. I. We're going to get to your interview, by the way, with Michael Proctor. Before that, though. I mean, when we talk about differences between the first trial and the second, some of them were differences for journalists. Right. I mean, for instance, Sue Simpson, our intrepid producer, who was waiting in line to get in the last time. It was a different kind of a different scenario this time around to get inside the courthouse.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. This time they did lottery. So the first time, sue was in her lawn chair that she uses for soccer games, showing up at midnight and sitting there all night. And then this time they did the lottery. So she was lucky. She kept. In the beginning, she was not winning the lottery. And then she started. She got on a roll. She's winning, and she kept winning. And so she was able to keep getting into the courtroom. So she was able to observe very small courtroom. People are really packed in there. That's why they had to do a lottery, because there were so many people and. And not just, you know, media like, you know, old school reporters and whatnot. They also had the social media influencers like Turtle Boy, podcast people, you know.

[Blaine Alexander]

And speaking of Turtle Boy, we didn't really hear from him as much this time around. Right.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I. I saw him. I was standing right near him when the verdict came in. He was very happy.

[Blaine Alexander]

Another thing that we noticed, of course, in the second trial is that Dateline entered the chat. They played some interview clips from Dateline. Right.

[Andrea Canning]

Dennis Murphy, before we switched correspondence, he did the interview with Karen. So that showed up in the courtroom, some clips from his interview. They were trying to show some inconsistencies with Karen and her interviews. And also, I think there probably was a little bit of, you know, look, she's telling her story everywhere but the courtroom. You know, she's telling every single media person, but not like in front of the jury. So I'm sure there was some of that as well, you know, with the prosecution trying to point that out.

[Blaine Alexander]

Was that always going to be the call that she didn't take the stand?

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, you know, Blaine, that very often defendants don't take the stand. Right. Because then, you know, they're in her case, her Own words could be used against her from these interviews. You know, it's a gamble because they had this theory, right, that she was framed and they were sticking to it. And they wanted the jury really, I think, to focus on that and not on her and, you know, getting up there on the stand and possibly, you know, who knows what could happen on cross examination. It's always friendly from your own attorney. And then when you get on cross, things can get dicey for a defendant.

[Blaine Alexander]

Speaking of hearing from people, we heard from Michael Proctor. And I have to say that, you know, I watch these episodes cold, even though I know that we're working on them and everything. But it's kind of fun when doing the talking datelines, to just watch it as a viewer. And when I saw him in the preview, I said, oh, my God, we talked to Michael Proctor. Andrea got my. Like, I mean, I really was watching this. Like, wow. I can't believe it. First we talked to his wife Elizabeth, though. That's who we heard from. Tell me what that was like. She was pretty candid in kind of how she reacted to finding out about those text messages.

[Andrea Canning]

When she first found out about them, she didn't know what was in them exactly. He just said that they were embarrassing. And then she said it was, you know, started picking up steam a little bit where she's hearing this, she's hearing that. It started to get worrisome. And then, I believe she didn't know what was actually in them until the trial. That's when she first heard the exact contents.

[Blaine Alexander]

Like when he read them on the stand.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

And so she said that she did, you know, listen to that.

[Jenna Bush Hager]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And so, you know, it's tough for her because she's the wife. Right. She hasn't done anything wrong, and she's caught up in this firestorm and this, you know, such a charged case.

[Blaine Alexander]

Andy lost his job over this, and he.

[Andrea Canning]

And he lost his job. She was with him when they got the call. It was pretty much immediate after the mistrial that they called and said that you're losing your job. It's been very hard on her. She says she knows who her real friends are now. You know, that's a plus. She, you know, the people who have stuck by them. And he's trying to get his job back. I think it's gonna be more difficult now, given the verdict. I mean, look, I don't know if he was ever gonna get it back, but, like, it just seems like maybe now it's even harder.

[Blaine Alexander]

It was a fascinating interview. We actually have some extra sound from Michael Proctor from your conversation with him. So let's listen to that.

[Tom Galmas]

When people ask me about the case, you know, I tell them, don't even bother looking at the evidence. The evidence or the facts or the data. Look at that from a common sense perspective. The defense wants you to believe in their blogger. Want you to believe that I coordinated this grand conspiracy with multiple units on the state police, Canton police Department, Canton fire, Canton paramedics, a dozen or so civilian witnesses, and a dog. And not one person has said over three years, this is what happened. I'm not going down for this. Because the truth is Karen Reed backed into John o' Keefe with her vehicle. There's no conspiracy.

[Andrea Canning]

How does the future look for Michael Proctor?

[Tom Galmas]

Time will tell. Like I said, we're appealing my wrongful termination. I still want to be a trooper. I still know that I can do some good on the state police. So we're fighting. And that's step one. That's the number one thing for me right now.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, I'm really glad that we were able to hear his perspective on all this.

[Andrea Canning]

I agree. And, you know, it's always at Dateline, we just want everybody's side. It doesn't mean we're on anyone's side. We want to hear your side and, you know, people. Why? Why'd you put him on there? You know, you get all kinds of. Right. Messages on social media.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Like all kinds of, you know, critics of an interview. And it really is. That's dateline's way. We always will be that way. And that's what I love about our show, is that, you know, we don't just do one side.

[Blaine Alexander]

Of course. It's fair journalism. That's what it's called. Right? I mean, yeah. When we get back, Andrea is going to share a podcast exclusive, exclusive clip from her latest interview with one of John o' Keefe's relatives.

[Yasmin Vesugian]

This is your moment, your time to shine your comeback. You're ready for the next step in your career, and you want an education, employer's respect. So you're not just going back to school. You're coming back with Purdue Global. Backed by Purdue University, one of the nation's most respected public universities, Purdue Global is built for people who bring their life experience into the online classroom. Purdue Global, Purdue's online university for working adults. Start your comeback today at purdueglobal.edu.

[Morgan Chesky]

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[Andrea Canning]

I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent Chloe Meloss every day after court about what she's seeing inside the witnesses, the evidence and what it all means.

[Morgan Chesky]

DATELINE True Crime Weekly Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Canning]

It's a very complex case and, you know, we don't want to forget John o' Keefe in the center of it that, you know, this was a man who gave his life to public service. This is a man who when his sister and brother in law died, he stepped up, he moved out of the city to raise his niece and nephew. You know, this is a man who had a lot of good qualities that his, his life was cut short.

[Blaine Alexander]

And I think something that you did a great job of in this episode is reminding the viewer of who he was right, and not letting him get lost because that's something that his family member Beth said she felt and the family felt happened in all of this. There was so much, you know, talk about everyone almost but John o' Keefe himself. Let's talk about Beth for a second. You did a second interview with Beth and you'd already spoken with her for the first episode. But this one was different because it was right after the verdict. I wonder if you can just kind of set the scene. How was she holding up?

[Andrea Canning]

It was very raw at that moment, tears, you know, she came over to where we were, you know, to interview and my heart just went out to her. And that's not me again, taking sides of anyone but just feeling sympathy for someone who's in pain, of course, at that moment, you know, because Beth and her family believe what they believe. And so for them this is a loss, right? This didn't go the way they wanted and they feel like just some serious injustice. So to talk to somebody that quickly after a verdict that went so wrong for them was it was painful, of.

[Blaine Alexander]

Course, I could imagine. We have a little an extra clip from your interview with her. Let's take a listen to that and then talk about it.

[Andrea Canning]

What's going through your body as you hear those words being read in the courtroom.

[Beth O'Keefe]

You know, I think it's, I don't, you know, honestly, I don't even know what happened at that moment. You know, I wasn't in court. I was down the street watching. And I think it was just a kind of a numb sensation of, you know, how, you know, what made them come to this conclusion where it's so different than what we know.

[Andrea Canning]

This has had such a domino effect, these accusations.

[Beth O'Keefe]

It did, you know, it's impacted more than just, you know, my family. It's impacted other families. It's impacted our friends. You know, lives have changed, not for the better because of this situation and because of the actions that that one person took on January 29, 2022.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, to the O' Keefe family and extended family, there's no doubt in their minds that Karen Reed hit John o' Keefe. Just like on the other side of this, there's zero doubt in Karen Reed's supporters minds that she did not hit John o' Keefe.

[Blaine Alexander]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

So we're just seeing a case through very different lenses from all these different people. And there's even shades, right. It's not even just she hit him or she didn't hit him. There's like, you know, there's people, like, in the middle, too, who can't really make heads or tails of this. So it's a tricky one. It's a tricky, tricky, tricky.

[Blaine Alexander]

It is a fascinating story. It's a fascinating case, one that has really just gripped everyone across the country. And you did a great job of covering it and bringing us this episode. So thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Thanks, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

Great to talk DATELINE with you. And that's it for talking DATELINE this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can always reach us 24. 7 on social media, DatelinenBC. Plus, there's an all new season of Josh Mankiewicz's podcast, Missing in America, out now. That series takes a deep dive into the country's most perplexing unsolved missing persons cases. Make sure to catch a new episode every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we'll see you on Fridays on Dateline on NBC.