Talking Dateline: Deadly Dance

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: Deadly Dance"

Introduction

In the "Talking Dateline: Deadly Dance" episode, aired on November 20, 2024, hosts Blaine Alexander and Andrea Canning delve deep into the harrowing true-crime story of Ashley Benefield. This episode provides an in-depth analysis of Ashley's tumultuous relationship with her husband Doug Benefield, the ensuing murder case, and the ripple effects on their family, particularly their six-year-old daughter, Emerson.

Background and Relationship

Ashley Benefield, a former ballerina and swimsuit model, entered Doug Benefield's life under seemingly serendipitous circumstances. The couple's rapid marriage, occurring just 13 days after their first meeting at a dinner party, raised eyebrows and suspicions. Andrea Canning highlights this swift union, stating, “Ashley and Doug... they were military, he was military, Republicans. The guns, you know, God” ([02:36]).

Their mutual love for firearms was evident early on. Ashley was seen with a concealed tiny gun in her bra and a semi-automatic weapon in her car trunk, signaling a shared interest that bound them together. Despite their commonalities, the depth and authenticity of their relationship became subjects of scrutiny as their lives intertwined.

The Incident and Investigation

In 2020, the façade of a harmonious marriage crumbled when Ashley fatally shot Doug, claiming self-defense. Investigators unearthed a complex web of abuse allegations, bitter custody disputes over their daughter, and even accusations of previous murders, all pointing towards a premeditated act of homicide rather than self-defense.

Andrea Canning discusses the challenges faced by prosecutors in discerning the truth amidst conflicting narratives: “These prosecutors did not believe that Ashley was being abused. So it's a fine line...” ([07:05]). This skepticism complicated the legal proceedings, as the prosecution struggled to balance believing the victim while presenting evidence that suggested foul play.

Custody Battle and Family Impact

Central to the case was the custody of Emerson, Ashley and Doug's six-year-old daughter. The custody dispute became a battleground, further fracturing the already strained relationship between the Benefields. Andrea notes, “Everyone needs their parents. And then when one is dead and one is accused of killing the other one, I mean, it really just throws the child's world into chaos” ([15:29]).

Emerson found herself in the crossfire, with Ashley's mother initially gaining custody. However, Doug's relatives contested this arrangement, hinting at ongoing legal battles that left Emerson's future uncertain.

The Trial and Courtroom Dynamics

The trial, often referred to as the "Black Swan Murder Trial"—a nod to the dark and intense nature of both the case and the acclaimed film—became a focal point of public and media attention. Ashley's courtroom demeanor was a point of contention. Prosecutors criticized her for displaying "crocodile tears," noting, “There weren't really any tears” ([20:54]).

A pivotal moment during the trial was Ashley’s reenactment of the shooting, which left jurors visibly perplexed. Andrea recounts, “It seemed like a turning point in there, though” ([21:03]). The jury deliberated extensively, ultimately convicting Ashley of manslaughter while acquitting her of second-degree murder, setting the stage for her impending sentencing.

Social Media and Public Reaction

Public opinion was sharply divided, amplified by social media platforms. Doug's daughter from a previous marriage, Eva Benefield, became a vocal critic of Ashley, using humor and pointed remarks to express her disdain. Andrea explains, “Eva... brought that forward too” ([08:22]), highlighting how social media served as both a support system and a battleground for polarized views.

The trial's portrayal as the "Black Swan Trial" coincided with a surge in online activism and commentary, reflecting broader societal trends in how true-crime stories are consumed and discussed in the digital age.

Conclusion and Aftermath

As the episode wraps up, Andrea emphasizes the ongoing nature of the legal battles surrounding Emerson's custody and the anticipation surrounding Ashley's sentencing. The case remains a poignant example of how personal relationships, legal complexities, and public perception intertwine in the realm of true crime.

Blaine and Andrea sign off by promising updates on the sentencing in future episodes, ensuring that listeners remain engaged with this evolving story.

Notable Quotes

• Andrea Canning on Ashley and Doug's Quick Marriage: “Ashley and Doug, they go outside and he's into guns. She's into guns, apparently.” ([02:54])

• Andrea on Custody and Child Impact: “Everyone needs their parents. And then when one is dead and one is accused of killing the other one... it really just throws the child's world into chaos.” ([15:29])

• Prosecutors on Ashley's Tearless Crying: “There weren't really any tears. And she'd said that one of the jurors did on her.” ([20:43])

• Andrea on Trial Dynamics: “She just really believes Ashley's story...” ([05:22])

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of "Talking Dateline: Deadly Dance," providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the case, the characters involved, and the intricate dynamics that make this true-crime story compelling and tragic.

Transcript

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Rob Buchanan]

Dang.

[Andrea Canning]

You're not supposed to sound that good at karaoke. You've just only heard me sing all.

[Blaine Alexander]

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[Andrea Canning]

Oh, this is your song. Wish I was singing.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Blaine Alexander]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Rob Buchanan]

Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. The Shop Pay feature even boosts conversions up to 50%. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout top brands like Allbirds use. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com podcastfree all lowercase go to shopify.com podcastfree to upgrade your selling.

[Blaine Alexander]

Hi everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander and we are talking DATELINE today. I'm here with Andrea Canning. Hi Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

So this episode is called Deadly Dance. If you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed. So go there, listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. For this talking Dateline, we have an extra clip from Andrea's interview with Ashley Benefield's therapist, Dr. Barbara Russell. But just a quick recap. In 2020, former ballerina Ashley Benefield claimed that she acted in self defense after fatally shooting her husband, Doug Benefield. But when investigators took a closer look into the couple's whirlwind relationship, they learned of abuse allegations a Bitter custody dispute, even an accusation of a previous murder. To investigators, the tumultuous relationship mixed with the physical evidence pointed to one thing, and that's murder. Okay, Andrea, let's talk Dateline.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's do it.

[Blaine Alexander]

So the big question, who is Ashley Benefield? I mean, I think that's the question from all angles. So she's a former ballerina, a swimsuit model. She enters Doug Benefield's life and they get married within 13 days of first meeting. What makes someone get married after 13 days?

[Andrea Canning]

I don't know. We touched on a little bit of their first encounter where they were at a dinner party. And so I guess Ashley and Doug, they go outside and he's into guns. She's into guns, apparently. And she has like a gun, like, you know, tucked in her bra, like a tiny gun. I was like, how did she fit that in there? And she was wearing, you know, we don't get into all these crazy details in the show, right? But she was wearing one of those bandage apparently dresses. So it's like, how did that, like, fit in there? And then not only that, which also didn't make the show because, you know, for time, I guess, she takes them out to her car and she's got a, like a semi automatic weapon in the trunk of her car. She's got a big, like, gun in there too. So a mutual love of firearms right out of the gate with these two. But they definitely seem to have a lot in common from the get go. They were military. He was military, you know, Republicans. The guns, you know, God.

[Blaine Alexander]

And also, I think that to go from a dinner party where you're talking about whatever you're talking about to like, hey, come outside and look at my guns. I just wonder how you make that conversation leap.

[Andrea Canning]

But it was it, you know, as you know, I write these Hallmark movies and we call them Meet Cutes, where the couple first meets in the movie. This would not make a Hallmark movie. I'm just saying that it's probably one of the most.

[Blaine Alexander]

If it did, it would be one of the most creative Hallmark movies or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's say that that was an interesting meeting, but to go from that to I do in 13 days is so interesting.

[Andrea Canning]

Right?

[Blaine Alexander]

So, like, the question is, was this infatuation, was it just love or did Ashley have some sort of a hidden agenda in all of this?

[Andrea Canning]

I think Doug's family, his brother and his cousin anyway, felt that she was, you know, into this. He's an older man. She's Thinking he has money, he has status. So I think that they felt that there was an agenda there. I. I don't think that anyone questions that she was into him. Like, I think there was also some, you know, infatuation there as well. Not just the. What she was getting out of it, but I think that was probably. Was what they feel was sort of driving the infatuation. The power, the money that she thought he had, I should say, you know, Dr. Barbara Russell, the therapist, you know, she. She says that Ashley was really in love with Doug. You know, so that's coming from the other side, that this was not about necessarily money and status and all that. It was like that she did love him.

[Blaine Alexander]

One question I had when we heard about her dream to open this ballet studio, I wonder, to your point, about money, like, how much did Doug have to do with giving her the money to open that studio or making it possible?

[Andrea Canning]

Doug definitely helped with the studio. Her dream kind of became his dream. So they moved to Charleston. And Ashley. Ashley's dream was to start a ballet company that would be all inclusive, so it would be all different ethnicities, it would be all different weights, all different, you know, sizes, heights, backgrounds. So it was. It was a very interesting idea because, you know, ballerinas and ballet dancers in general are, you know, somewhat cookie cutter, right? So I do commend her. I kind of thought it was a really fun idea. Agreed to have all these different kinds of people come together, and Charleston is such a tourist destination that it would be a fun thing to put on your list. You know, when you go to Charleston, you know, you go for the food. You can go watch this interesting ballet. So Doug was apparently all in on that to help her. So did I mean, your question. Did she go after him for money? You know, I don't know. But as we know, it didn't. You know, the company never really got off the ground. They made some major inroads with the company, and then it just fell apart.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, the other big thing, of course, she got pregnant and she became a mom. I'm assuming that she really wanted children because she was pregnant relatively soon after they got married. And that became kind of the. Just kind of like a central focus when you talk about, you know, this poor girl who was really caught in the middle of all of this.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it was. I mean, it's exhausting just hearing about the fighting that was going on over their daughter, Emerson. It really became this. The focus of their fighting.

[Blaine Alexander]

I was so fascinated by this because it. From the beginning, it Wasn't this question of like, oh, who did it? Right. Like we knew that she pulled the trigger, but why? Why did she do it?

[Andrea Canning]

You know, it. This was a conversation that I really had with the prosecutors about when there are abuse allegations, of course you want to believe the victim, right? We all want to believe the victim. You know, that this is very serious. This is something that women and men go through in this country and it's awful. And we know too many times it can end in murder. And so that was the tricky part for the prosecutors because these prosecutors did not believe that Ashley was being abused. So it's a fine line. It was even a fine line for me doing the date line because I didn't want anyone thinking that I don't believe abuse victims. It is tricky, right, when there are cases sometimes where the person really wasn't abused. And was that the case here? You know, I don't know. I'm not. I would never wade into that. It was difficult to almost present that and difficult for the prosecutors.

[Blaine Alexander]

I could imagine that would be tricky. It really was a delicate kind of balance that they had to strike. They had to be delicate with it. I thought that it was so striking that Eva at the end, Doug's daughter from a previous marriage, it came out and kind of addressed, almost apologized to women who suffered from domestic violence or really brought that forward too. When we get back, we've got a bonus clip from Andrea's interview with Ashley Benefield's therapist.

[Rob Buchanan]

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[Keith Morrison]

MSNBC Films presents the Sing Sing Chronicles, a new four part series from NBC News studios featuring decades of investigative reporting from Dateline producer Dan Slepian that exposes the injustices of wrongful convictions.

[Dan Slepian]

I spent half my life in prison and that's time we can't get back.

[Keith Morrison]

The Sing sing Chronicles first two episodes premiere Saturday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. Out of nowhere there it was. Sudden, shocking, terrifying.

[Blaine Alexander]

I have never in my life felt fear like that.

[Keith Morrison]

Was this someone's idea of a sick prank or was it a horror movie? Come horribly alive.

[Dan Slepian]

I'm thinking he killed him and he.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Had filmed the murder.

[Keith Morrison]

I'm Keith Morrison, and this is Dateline's newest podcast, the man in the Black Mask. All episodes are available now. To listen ad free, subscribe to Dateline premium on Apple podcasts, Spotify or DatelinePremium.com.

[Blaine Alexander]

So let's go to the crime scene because there was something that was very unusual about this. Very soon after Doug Benefield was shot, we saw all of these people kind of start showing up for Ashley. Lawyers, her therapist. How unusual is something like that?

[Andrea Canning]

Well, the police thought it was unusual. So she had three attorneys, and one of the attorneys was at the police station, like, immediately. It did seem like they were on speed dial. Dr. Barbara Russell, she actually showed up at the active crime scene, and the detective was like, why are you here? She said she was called by Ashley's mother who was there. So we have an extra clip with Dr. Russell about, you know, arriving at this crime scene. The lead investigator accused you of sort of butting into the investigation at the scene.

[Dr. Barbara Russell]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

What was your logic on getting involved?

[Dr. Barbara Russell]

The investigator was, as well as some of the child protective workers. The workers who couldn't care less about this child's safety while Doug was alive were now suddenly so concerned about her safety, they took Ashley's mother into the garage of this home to question her. I did not feel that that was appropriate. The woman was in a state of shock. She was terrified. So I kept popping my nose into the garage. Hi, guys. How we doing? We almost done?

[Blaine Alexander]

I'm really glad that we had the voice of Dr. Russell because I do think that she said so much about Ashley. I wonder if there were questions about, you know, to be there on the scene, to be so involved. Was it possible that she was overstepping her bounds as a therapist to be there?

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, first of all, we should be clear that the investigator and CPS worker say they were always concerned about Emerson's safety, and police deny doing anything inappropriate at the scene. You could tell when I interviewed the detective, he didn't love the tone of Dr. Russell, you know, at the crime scene and thought. Thought it was a little odd. Dr. Russell goes on to say how she, you know, spent the night taking care of Ashley, you know, making sure that. That she was okay. She says they did not talk about the shooting, but this is where people also had problems, is that Ashley ends up moving in with Dr. Russell and the.

[Blaine Alexander]

How long did they live together, would you say?

[Andrea Canning]

I. I want to say it was like in the, like, months when I first read the note before I interviewed Dr. Russell from Rob Buchanan, our producer, I was like, moved in. Like they're like together together.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, exactly. And then he.

[Andrea Canning]

And he's like, no, no. She needed a place to live and she had, you know, no money. And so Dr. Russell, you know, she defended herself. She said that they were never friends. She said that this was strictly, you know, therapist client relationship, that Ashley was down and out. Ashley needed a place to live and so she opened her house and she said she never would have opened her house if she thought she was a cold blooded killer. She just really believes Ashley's story in.

[Blaine Alexander]

A couple of ways. She played the role kind of almost of an advocate of Ashley. Right. Like they're on the crime scene and, you know, she joined the protests for her around the trial time too, right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, yeah. And she. We struggled to find people from Ashley's world, you know, her family, friends. So Dr. Russell became that voice for Ashley in our report. It was very important that we had Dr. Russell to give us that other side.

[Blaine Alexander]

Let's talk a little bit more about those protests. Among the people protesting was their six year old daughter, Ashley, and Doug's six year old daughter, Emerson. I mean, that was very striking to just see her little self out there. Who brought her out there and kind of what was that like for her to be out there?

[Andrea Canning]

I believe it was Ashley's mom who brought her. Some people did have a problem with that. They felt like she's too young to be dragged into this, that she should not be out there. Others felt like, hey, this is her mom. And we believe that her mom was abused and that she was defending herself and her daughter should know that, that her mom is strong. So there were people definitely on both sides on that particular issue of Emerson being out there and being so publicly on display.

[Blaine Alexander]

Where is Emerson now? I mean, I think the sad thing about this, as you mentioned at the end of the episode, she's still kind of locked in this custody battle, right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Well, I believe Emerson, at least at the time of our report, is with Ashley's mother. But Doug's brother and cousin indicated that this is not over, that they may try to get custody of Emerson, someone on Doug's side.

[Blaine Alexander]

It's so often in so many of our Dateline stories, child custody disputes kind of can be at the heart of this. It really is just so heartbreaking for the kids who are in the middle of all of this and Emerson, who's lost both of her parents.

[Andrea Canning]

It really is when they're young enough where they still need their parents. I mean, everyone needs their parents. And then when one is dead and one is accused of killing the other one, I mean, it really just throws the child's world into chaos. It's been my experience with the majority of datelines that I've covered that these, the children, if. If the father is the accused, that the children stand by the father, you know, because they don't. It's almost like they say they believe them. Okay, that's. That's your right. You've. You've decided you believe them, but it's almost to me, like they don't want to lose another parent.

[Blaine Alexander]

I, you know, I talked with Keith about this recently for his episode, and it's almost like it's a method of self protection or self preservation. Almost like maybe you can't allow yourself to believe that your father is capable of this, because even if they are, you know, found guilty or whatever, just having something in your mind to say, okay, I admit that maybe he is responsible, then you are really losing both parents. Right. Like, it's a way of holding on.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I totally buy that.

[Blaine Alexander]

Let's talk about Eva Benefield. That's, you know, Doug's daughter from his marriage to Renee, his previous wife who passed away. But when Doug and Ashley married, Eva was Ashley's stepdaughter. Even though the 2 only had 9 years of age difference. Right. Between the two of them. So how was their relationship?

[Andrea Canning]

Not good. I mean, you can just imagine your father marries someone after two weeks who's like nine years older than you and brings her home, and you're supposed to. Everything's supposed to be perfect. That would be extremely rare. The family that, you know, the kid just says, great. I'm so. I'm so excited.

[Blaine Alexander]

Welcome. You know, welcome.

[Andrea Canning]

Like, it's just, you know, that is. That's tough for the child. Like, really tough. So, no, they did not. They did not have a good relationship. And it only got worse. Eva, you know, expressed her feelings on social media, TikTok, you know, and she amassed quite a few followers.

[Blaine Alexander]

She was very vocal. She was claiming Ashley murdered her dad. And you even kind of said she used humor in all of that. But do you think that that kind of help draw a lot of attention to this story?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I think it. I think it definitely helped bring attention to it. The other thing I'm noticing too now is, you know, we had Karen Reed where there were just tons and tons of supporters for Karen Reed online outside the courthouse. And then now with this, you know, so called Black Swan trial, as Ashley's case was called by some, because Black Swan, you know, the movie. Oh, yeah, With Natalie Portman.

[Blaine Alexander]

Portman.

[Andrea Canning]

It's like a diabolical ballerina, you know, I think. I think brought attention to it. But I'm noticing, though that we're seeing now more supporters, like, show up to these things now. Like, it feels like a trend, you know?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, yeah, it really is. I mean, I think that especially when you see people outside, but also just kind of thinking about, yes, social media and the way that some of these things spread, like people are able to follow along and feel like they really know the people or they really know the, you know, the facts of the case or even people who show up and kind of try and be investigators on their own or, you know, involve themselves. Let's talk about the trial because as you mentioned, when the murder trial began, a lot of people dubbed it the Black Swan murder trial because of that movie. Have you seen the movie Black Swan?

[Andrea Canning]

I did, and I can honestly say I didn't like it.

[Blaine Alexander]

Really?

[Andrea Canning]

I thought it was a strange movie. I didn't. I like those. I like diabolical, you know, thrillers a lot. But I just. There was something very weird about that movie that I.

[Blaine Alexander]

There was a lot I didn't get into it. I really like Natalie Portman because I like Therese Padme. So anytime Natalie Portman does anything, I'm like, oh, wow, let's see. And I do remember it was one of those ones I had to watch twice just to kind of digest what was happening.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, Natalie Portman is fantastic. And didn't she win the Oscar?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, she won Best Actress for that. Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

So, I mean, it's no reflection on her or her acting skills. I just thought the movie was a bit dark and over the top.

[Blaine Alexander]

It was dark. That's a good way to put it. So to have this trial likened to Black Swan was interesting. I'm curious, what was Ashley like in the courtroom during this trial?

[Andrea Canning]

There, of course, were people who immediately felt that Ashley's tears on the stand were crocodile tears. And in fact, and we touched on this very briefly in the show, but the prosecutors notice that she was crying, but no tears were coming out, according to them. So at one point, the prosecutor notices this lack of tears and says, turn the lights up. She hoped that the jury would see, you know, that there were tears. There weren't really any tears. And she'd said that one of the jurors did on her. I Guess the jury was leaving the courtroom and one of the jurors really leaned over and looked at Ashley, you know, in the face, like, trying to get a look, you know, so the prosecutor felt like it worked for that reason.

[Blaine Alexander]

It was kind of just bringing it up, letting people notice what they noticed.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And the prosecution also had Ashley come down and, you know, demonstrate. Demonstrate how she killed Doug.

[Blaine Alexander]

For our viewers or our listeners who maybe are only listening and didn't actually see it, can you kind of describe what she did with her body in that moment?

[Andrea Canning]

It's hard to almost explain, but she was, you know, moving her hands around in front of her body. Her palms were flat. Yeah, I, I don't totally get it, but.

[Blaine Alexander]

And I think that, that it just felt like such a turning point in there because it, at least from the prosecution, it kind of sounded like they said, okay, this is your one chance to show. Hey, this is what he did. And, you know, she didn't necessarily seem to have a good reenactment of what she said happened. It seemed like a turning point in there, though.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, and clearly the jurors struggled with her testimony.

[Blaine Alexander]

So the jury deliberates. At one point, they come back, they say, hey, we don't have a verdict. The judge says, okay, keep trying. And they ultimately find Ashley Benefield guilty of manslaughter, but not guilty of the higher charge of second degree murder. So Ashley Benefield will be sentenced next month. And that's something, of course, that a lot of us are going to be watching. And I know that you are going to be discussing it and giving updates as well.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, we will definitely bring it up on Dateline True Crime Weekly as soon as, as soon as we get that sentencing, we will definitely include it in my podcast, Dateline True Crime Weekly that comes out every Thursday morning.

[Blaine Alexander]

Oh, you know, we'll be there. Okay. Andrea, thanks so much for talking Dateline with me today.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, thanks. Plane. Up next, what did you make of Ashley on the stand? I'll be joined by Dateline producer Rob Buchanan to answer your questions from social media.

[Rob Buchanan]

Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet. The shop pay feature even boosts conversions up to 50%. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout top brands like all birds use. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com podcastfree all lowercase go to shopify.com podcastfree to upgrade your selling. Today.

[Keith Morrison]

MSNBC Films presents the Sing Sing Chronicles, a new four part series from NBC News Studios featuring decades of investigative reporting from DATELINE producer Dan Slept that exposes the injustices of wrongful convictions.

[Dan Slepian]

I spent half my life in prison. And that's time we can't get back.

[Keith Morrison]

The Sing sing chronicles first two episodes premier Saturday at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey, it's Josh Mankiewicz from DATELINE with a question for you true crime fans. How do you catch a killer whose motive is simply unimaginable? Investigators give us a fascinating look inside a very twisted mind as his secrets are finally uncovered. If you think you've heard every DATELINE story, think again. Listen to Motive for Murder and a dozen other riveting series when you follow the DATELINE Originals podcast.

[Andrea Canning]

We're back. Blaine's on the road working on her latest story. So I'm joined by DATELINE producer Rob Buchanan. Hey, Rob.

[Dan Slepian]

Hey, Andrea. How are you? Great to speak with you again.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, great working with you on this story. So I know you were online Friday night. I was on the plane coming back from Salt Lake City for a different story and we were texting back and forth. I was watching DATELINE on the plane.

[Dan Slepian]

On the plane.

[Andrea Canning]

And so you said that you were noticing a lot of comments from people. What kind of stuff were you hearing?

[Dan Slepian]

Yeah, it's interesting. People at first want to take one side and then, you know, then you start to see them take another side. But there was quite a bit of comments throughout the show, certainly about Ashley, about her testimony on Doug. The things were that really turned people a certain way was the dog. When people heard that he hit his dog. Oh, that turned a lot of people off.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And that kind of thing certainly made people wonder, you know, where one minute you're on his side, then maybe you're not, then you're like, like, wait, is she telling the truth? It's it was a tricky one to try to weed through all the like mess of this couple.

[Dan Slepian]

Well, this is always right. The real challenge for juries because no one was there.

[Rob Buchanan]

Right.

[Dan Slepian]

The only one that was still alive was Ashley. Who knows really what happened that day? And to try to figure out from one person who's still living and them telling your story and obviously they don't want to go to jail. It's very difficult.

[Andrea Canning]

So Tor or Tory let on Facebook asked, why were the lights dim during the hearing? I've never seen that. And this is, of course, you have to remember first of all that the lights were turned back on as we talked about in the story. So now the question is the reverse. Why were they even dimmed in the first place?

[Dan Slepian]

So they were turned down because the prosecution was showing some photos, I believe, or graphics inside. And so they asked that the lights be dimmed so that the jurors could see them more clearly in a darkened room. So after they were done with that and they started doing their cross examination, the lights remained down. And then that's what point that you see on air is when the prosecutor says, hey, can we bring those lights back up? And that's the reason why.

[Andrea Canning]

And rob you, you spent a lot of days in the courtroom. People wanted to talk about the, you know, tears versus no tears. But I'll say this before you answer this question.

[Dan Slepian]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

When my kids are crying with no tears, the moment it's resolved, it's like a, it's like a faucet. The crying just stops, you know. So I'm kind of wondering as far as like with, with Ashley, talk a little bit about that sort of phenomenon of like the crying but without tears. Right.

[Dan Slepian]

So I want to be totally fair to Ashley. I did see tears at certain points. She was up there for a long time and there was a lot of crying. And I could see it actually better when I watched it on videotape rather than sitting in the courtroom because she was quite a distance from me. Rebecca Freel, who was one of the co prosecutors in her closing remarks, okay, now she said this, this is not me saying that. She said, I don't know any other way how to say this, but where were her snots?

[Andrea Canning]

She said, yeah, because cry so much.

[Dan Slepian]

You know, you're looking for a Kleenex. And she said that never happened.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And Debbie Dougas one on X said, great show. We noticed there were no tears to no red eyes, nose mucus. Haha. I thought I maybe saw one tear shining in the. And also, Eileen, to Tony Joyce on Facebook, my son said, where are the tears? Oh my gosh, so many comments about Ashley on the stand.

[Dan Slepian]

Yeah, I mean there were some, some comments that I saw about, you know, that she was a dancer, but she really should have been an actress.

[Andrea Canning]

This is a good question from Sue Meaty. She, she was curious. What did we blur out in the police interrogation room footage?

[Dan Slepian]

Sue, wouldn't you like to know?

[Andrea Canning]

Well, actually, what is it we would like.

[Rob Buchanan]

Okay.

[Dan Slepian]

Yeah, I know. Okay, we would like to know also, obviously we request these videos from the police and they blurted out. So it was something that they blurred out. So we have no idea either. So we'll all be wondering that for perhaps eternity.

[Andrea Canning]

Rob, thank you so much for joining us for talking DATELINE and for doing such a great job producing this episode and for working so hard on it. It was definitely back to you.

[Dan Slepian]

You know that all the time.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you. That's it for this week's Talking dateline. Before we go, we wanted to tell you about something new we're trying. You can now send us audio of your questions and your voice might be featured on an upcoming episode. Just make a recording of your question on your phone and send it to us in a direct message on Facebook, Instagram or X. It doesn't have to be about the episode itself. And no topic is off limits. You can still reach us the old fashioned way through our handle on socialatelinenbc. And of course, we'll see you Fridays on DATELINE on NBC. Thanks for listening.

[Keith Morrison]

Friday night on an all new dateline, a rich businessman killed in his own bed.

[Blaine Alexander]

This is unbelievable.

[Keith Morrison]

Can police untangle a web of possible suspects?

[Andrea Canning]

Lance had a secret life, Multiple secret lives. Yes.

[Keith Morrison]

An all new Dateline Friday at 98 Central, only on NBC.