Talking Dateline: Deadly Mirage

Summary

Dateline NBC - Episode Summary: Talking Dateline: Deadly Mirage

Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction to the Case

In the Deadly Mirage episode of Dateline NBC, host Blaine Alexander sits down with Josh Mankiewicz to dissect one of the most riveting true-crime stories covered by the series. The episode delves into the mysterious death of Rob Limone, whose 2014 murder initially appeared to be a simple burglary gone wrong but soon unraveled into a complex web of deceit, open marriages, and betrayal within a tightly-knit community known as the Wolf Pack.

Silver Lakes: The Illusion of Perfection

The story is set in Silver Lakes, poignantly described as "the happiest place in the high desert" (00:35), an artificial oasis in the Californian desert. Josh Mankiewicz elaborates on the community's facade of perfection, highlighting its dependency on external water sources to sustain its lush environment amidst the arid surroundings (02:38). This meticulously planned community, with picturesque streets like Strawberry Lane, masked underlying tensions and secrets among its residents.

Quote:

"It's a little like, you know, sort of Never Never Land... real life issues are going to come in. Infidelity and boredom and sometimes much worse than either of those."
— Josh Mankiewicz (04:07)

The Wolf Pack: A Close-Knit Group with Dark Secrets

Rob Limone was part of a social circle known as the Wolf Pack, a group of young couples who balanced family life during the day with a hedonistic party lifestyle at night. This dual existence set the stage for the unraveling of relationships and trust within the community (02:38). Michaeil Mankiewicz points out that while such dynamics might not be replicated in larger cities like New York or Atlanta, the fundamental human conflicts remain universal (03:19).

The Murder and Investigation

Rob Limone was found dead at his workplace, a rail yard, sparking initial suspicions of a burglary gone wrong. However, the investigation took a pivotal turn when authorities discovered Rob's open marriage and his involvement with the Wolf Pack. Detectives zeroed in on his wife, Sabrina, and her lover, Jonathan Hearn, leading to their arrests for Rob's murder (01:10).

Jonathan Hearn quickly confessed to the crime, agreeing to testify against Sabrina in exchange for a reduced sentence. Despite Sabrina's vehement denials, she was convicted in 2017 and is serving a sentence of 25 years to life (01:10).

Sabrina's Trial and Defense

During the trial, Sabrina's defense hinged on her inability to reconcile her dual life. She claimed she did not want to commit murder or pursue a divorce, professing contentment with her marriage and her lover, Jonathan (10:22). Her statements indicated a compartmentalization of her life, attempting to maintain harmony within her family while engaging in an extramarital affair.

Quote:

"I didn't want to do a divorce or murder."
— Sabrina (10:12)

Jonathan's Testimony and Motivation

Jonathan Hearn's testimony was crucial in securing Sabrina's conviction. Initially expressing remorse and a desire to end the affair, his stance shifted dramatically, revealing deep-seated resentment towards Rob Limone. In a poignant moment, Jonathan admits to harboring "a frank disgust" for Rob, which played a significant role in his actions (17:30).

Quote:

"Her frustrations with Rob became my frustrations. Her demons became my demons."
— Prosecutor questioning Jonathan (17:30)

Themes and Analysis: Selective Morality and Religious Justification

A recurring theme throughout the episode is the selective interpretation of morality and the misuse of religious texts to rationalize unethical behavior. Both Sabrina and Jonathan twisted biblical scriptures to justify their actions, highlighting a profound moral dissonance. Blaine Alexander and Josh Mankiewicz discuss how these individuals manipulated religious teachings to fit their personal narratives, thereby excusing their involvement in Rob's murder (13:09).

Quote:

"You know, how you read the Bible as closely as at least Jonathan did, and she did, under sort of his tutelage, and come up with a justification for murdering your husband."
— Josh Mankiewicz (13:15)

Community and Peer Influence

The Wolf Pack's influence extended beyond Sabrina and Jonathan, impacting other relationships within Silver Lakes. The group's swinger lifestyle and the secrecy surrounding their activities contributed to the tension and eventual downfall of Sabrina's marriage. Social media reactions highlighted the community's shock and disapproval of the group's practices, questioning the sustainability of such an alternative lifestyle (22:25).

Audience Reactions and Social Media Engagement

Following the episode's release, listeners engaged heavily on social media, expressing their dismay at the misuse of religious texts and the complexities of the swinger lifestyle. Comments ranged from condemnation of the characters' moral choices to discussions on the feasibility of maintaining such lifestyles amidst familial responsibilities.

Notable Comments:

• Darlene: "I hate it when people try to use the Bible to justify their evil doings."
• Brandy Guthrie: "I love that line. And I remember rewinding it several times. That was a good one."

Conclusion: Unraveling the Deadly Mirage

Deadly Mirage serves as a compelling exploration of how outward appearances can mask profound personal and moral conflicts. The episode underscores the fragility of constructed utopias like Silver Lakes, where underlying tensions can lead to tragic outcomes. Through in-depth interviews, poignant testimonies, and critical analysis, Dateline NBC provides a multifaceted view of a case that challenges notions of fidelity, morality, and community.

Final Thoughts: Blaine Alexander and Josh Mankiewicz wrap up the discussion by addressing audience questions and reflecting on the complexities of the case. They emphasize the importance of understanding the human psyche in unraveling why individuals resort to extreme measures like murder instead of seeking alternatives such as divorce.

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Key Quotes and Timestamps:

• "It's a little like, you know, sort of Never Never Land... real life issues are going to come in. Infidelity and boredom and sometimes much worse than either of those."
  — Josh Mankiewicz (04:07)

• "Her frustrations with Rob became my frustrations. Her demons became my demons."
  — Prosecutor questioning Jonathan (17:30)

• "You know, how you read the Bible as closely as at least Jonathan did, and she did, under sort of his tutelage, and come up with a justification for murdering your husband."
  — Josh Mankiewicz (13:15)

• "I love you so much, but I never want to hurt your family."
  — Jonathan Hearn (16:11)

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Note: This summary excludes non-content sections such as advertisements, intros, and outros to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions and insights.

Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there everyone in podcast land. I just wanted to thank you all for listening and telling your friends about our little podcast. Let's talk off camera with me, Kelly Ripa. I know there are millions of podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you giving us a listen. There are so many gems from season one from Matthew McConaughey disclosing that he and Woody Harrelson might be brothers to Salma Hayek telling us about the argument that started her friendship with Prince, who Hope you enjoy season one and stay tuned for a bigger and better season two.

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[Blaine Alexander]

Hi everyone, it's Blaine Alexander and I am so glad to be here today with Josh Mankiewicz to talk about his episode Deadly Mirage. If you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed. So make sure to go there, listen to it, or of course you can stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. So, just a quick recap. In 2014, when Rob Limone was found dead at the rail yard where he worked, investigators wondered if it was a burglary gone wrong until they learned more about Rob's open marriage and close knit group of friends who called themselves the Wolf Pack. Detectives eventually zeroed in on Rob's wife Sabrina and her lover, a young firefighter by the name of Jonathan Hearn, and arrested them for Rob's murder. Hearn quickly confessed and agreed to testify against Sabrina in exchange for a reduced prison sentence. Sabrina denied everything but was convicted in 2017. She is currently serving a prison sentence of 25 years to life. Later on, we'll play you an extra clip from Jonathan's testimony at Sabrina's trial. But for now, Josh, let's talk Dateline. There's so much to talk about in this episode. I actually want to start with the location Silver Lakes. You know, they called it the happiest place in the high desert, but that was actually the very first character that we kind of met in this story right before we knew anybody's names. We knew the name of this location. Hatch ever been to Silver Lakes before?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

This report I had, it is, you know, one of the interesting things about it is that like a lot of other things. In California, it's completely artificial. It's this community that wouldn't exist if water were not brought in from somewhere else because it's the desert. But from that, there's this, like, little green oasis. And, you know, it's this sort of happy, perfect community existing, you know, sort of in the middle of nowhere.

[Blaine Alexander]

I'm curious if you picked this story up and plopped it in another city, like a larger city, Atlanta, New York, do you think that it would have had the same kind of ring? Do you think that this would have played out anywhere else but this community?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, I mean, it's a little like, you know, sort of Never Never Land. I mean, you know, you've got this group of young couples, call themselves the wolf pack, Their parents during the day and partiers during the night, you know, and that might not be the same in other cities because you don't necessarily have people just like you at your age group with kids living right near you in the same area. But, you know, look, I mean, the things that happened here are things that happen all the time all over America. I guess people who thought of building this community out there under the desert sun thought that they would not ever happen there.

[Blaine Alexander]

It's kind of a thread through this entire episode. People going out of their way to almost kind of create this facade of this perfect kind of place.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I mean, look, there's. There are desert communities out there that have been out there a very long time, but, like, more recently have been these other sort of, you know, perfect planned communities where the streets are, you know, have names like Strawberry Lane, where the left. And I guess, you know, I guess the. The answer is that no matter how perfect you try to make the place where you are, real life issues are going to come in. Infidelity and boredom and sometimes much worse than either of those.

[Blaine Alexander]

So I really like this question that you asked Jason if Rob might have gotten involved with the wrong person or perhaps involved in a bad situation. And he says, yes, you never really know anyone, even in a picture perfect place like Silver Lakes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I think that Jason and Kelly were an interesting part of this story. You know, they were clearly part of the wolf pack and the sort of party atmosphere that surrounded that. And there's no question that. That they were part of the. I don't know whether you want to call it swinging or wife swapping or, let's just say, this alternative lifestyle that they were doing. Because. Because at one point, Jason made this sort of distinction between infidelity and what they were doing.

[Blaine Alexander]

But there was even the notion of Sabrina talking about permission. Right. Like what she had permission to do. Right. It's almost like it's fine, it's right. It's san if it's within this group, because we all share this belief. But if you go outside, you're stepping over the line.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You know, what can I say? I think for a lot of married couples, it's kind of understood that there isn't any permission, no matter who it is, no matter what situation it is. But they had chosen to do things differently. And at least for a long time, that appeared to be working.

[Blaine Alexander]

What was it like in that interview room when you were interviewing Kelly and Jason, when you actually asked them, okay, break this down for me. I don't understand who was with who. How did this work?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I, I can't tell you, you, Blaine, exactly how this worked, but they clearly had some system which involved different people being together in different situations, maybe while other people were present that they felt did not stretch the bounds of permission. So it was a way for people to be with other people without sort of, you know, breaking. Yeah, breaking either. I'm not gonna say breaking their vows, but at least breaking their, their post marriage vows of, of what constituted fidelity and infidelity.

[Blaine Alexander]

I.1, that was a very poetic way of describing this entire kind of convoluted thing. But two, I'm curious. There are always, like, moments in our interviews that we do that can be uncomfortable or, ooh, you're really challenging someone or you're pushing somebody. Was this uncomfortable? How was that in the room? How did they respond to your questions?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Oh, yeah, no, no, they, they, they both, they had that expression of like, you know, when people. Dentist, you know, like, this is going to be awful, but, you know, in a couple hours it's going to be over. I'll be out of here thinking about how terrible it was. I mean, look, they agreed to do it, and I think they agreed to do it because they loved Rob because they felt that he had been done wrong. You know, we got no subpoena power here at Dateline. People are only on because they want to be. And I think the Bernatines wanted to tell their story. They were ready for anything. And I can only imagine that it was embarrassing. It always is to have your sort of, you know, personal business laid out in front of the whole country. Look, one of the things that's always true about murder investigations is that it pulls back the covers on everybody's secrets, including things that don't actually have to do with the murder itself. And this was one of those cases.

[Blaine Alexander]

When we get back, we've got an extra clip from Jonathan's testimony at Sabrina's trial.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Blaine Alexander]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Blaine Alexander]

That's snhu. Edu Dateline.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, everyone in podcast land. I just wanted to thank you all for listening and telling your friends about our little podcast. Let's talk off camera with me, Kelly Ripa. I know there are millions of podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you giving us a listen. There are so many gems from season one from Matthew McConaughey disclosing that he and Woody Harrelson might be brothers to Salma Hayek, telling us about the argument that started her friendship with Prince. Hope you enjoy season one and stay tuned for a bigger and better season two.

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[Blaine Alexander]

So when I was watching this, my first question that I came back to, why did they have to kill the guy? Why murder, right? Why not divorce?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Look, this is a question that I have specifically asked of defendants from whom I was separated by a thick pane of prison glass. Why did you not think about just getting a divorce? I mean, it's legal in this country and, you know, you can get divorced as many times as you want and your family may hate you afterwards, you may be out of money afterwards, you may have the distrust and enmity of your family and friends, but you will not be locked up, right? And you probably also will be able to sleep at night. Why people choose murder is one of the the questions involving the stuff that you and I cover here at Dateline that I've never really had an answer to. Now, that said, why did this happen Sabrina's defense was, I didn't want him dead. I was content. I had this life sort of compartmentalized the way I wanted it. I husband, who I loved and who was a great father and, you know, took care of me and the kids. And then I had my lover, who was very exciting and younger, and we read scripture to each other. You know, her defense was, I didn't want to do. I. I didn't want either a divorce or murder. And you can't convict her without believing Jonathan. There is nothing on those tapes in which she acknowledges authorship of this plan.

[Blaine Alexander]

One of the questions I had the day that Rob is murdered is a day where he's actually covering a shift for another employee. How would Jonathan know that he was picking up that shift? Did investigators think Sabrina might have told him, or did he kind of get that hanging around the wolfback?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I think that the idea that Rob was murdered at a place that wasn't his normal place of employment was a very big part of the prosecution's case, because I think the argument was made that. That Jonathan would only have known where to go if Sabrina had told him. And Sabrina's response to that was, yeah, I probably did tell him, but not because I wanted Rob killed, but because when Rob was working that far away, then my lover and I would have plenty of time to get together because it's a super long commute for Rob, and he's going to call me each way, coming and going, so. So it'll be the perfect day to sneak away for a few hours with Jonathan. That's her argument.

[Blaine Alexander]

One of the questions that was pos during this episode was, why would Jonathan throw away his entire life?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

All I can say is, you know, all of you, not just you, Blaine, but you in the audience, like, think back to your first relationship and how it seemed like it was everything, right? This is the person I've always thought I should be with, and now I'm with them. How can we forge a relationship that lasts forever despite the fact that we are not supposed to be together or that we're too young or we're both in high school or like, whatever it is, and people do that. And I think that's some of what Jonathan Hur was going through. He had led in. In. In. In that way, I think a kind of a sheltered life. I mean, there. There were. There. There was a lot of discussion that she was the first significant relationship he'd ever had.

[Blaine Alexander]

Especially if you feel that it's all kind of, I guess, underwritten or supported by Religion, Right. Like, this is kind of.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. I mean. Or if you've talked yourself into that, I mean, you know how you. How you read the Bible as closely as at least Jonathan did, and she did, under sort of his tutelage, I think, and come up with a justification for murdering your husband, a innocent person who was not any kind of immediate physical threat to her.

[Blaine Alexander]

That's what's so fascinating about this. There's kind of this notion of when you talk about the kind of push and pull between what prosecutors allege happened and then just the religion behind it. And at one point, we heard her say, rob would rather be dead than divorced. I wonder if at some point there was kind of this decision that was essentially almost made for Rob. Right. Like, if the question is, why not divorce? Kind of saying, well, he would prefer it this way. I wonder if that was part of the. Part of the mindset of, like, hey, we're almost doing him a favor.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Let me just say to all Dateline viewers, when somebody says, I'd rather be dead than divorced, they do not actually mean it.

[Blaine Alexander]

They don't mean it.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No, no, no. Most people. Forced. Forced with that choice. Most people would rather continue to be alive.

[Blaine Alexander]

You're not doing them a favor. I was even struck. One thing that almost gave me chills was when we listened to the wiretap, and it sounded like they literally prayed for the wisdom to be able to cover up a murder.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There's one of the commandments, by the way, that deals with this. Maybe they should have read that. A little more fuller reading of scripture might have been required here.

[Blaine Alexander]

Several. You shall not kill, you shall not lie. Like there were a lot of commandments.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

At thy neighbor's wife.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

If you look at the story of David and Bathsheba in the Bible and get away from that with the idea that, like, there's a biblical justification for that, then you have not read the Bible very closely.

[Blaine Alexander]

It didn't happen. That didn't happen in the scripture.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No.

[Blaine Alexander]

Didn't happen that way.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, I wonder if the. If Jonathan's motivation for all of that right afterwards was, let me confess to Kelly and Jason, that will be kind of my way of following through with the scripture. Confessing not to police who could put me in prison, but let me confess to these friends and. And that'll kind of help me get rid of this guilt.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

People make all kinds of moral choices to assuage themselves of the guilt that they might be feeling. What was in his head? I don't know. I can tell you that one thing that was in his head was to hire a criminal attorney and get to the courthouse first, because this is a classic example of first squeal gets the deal.

[Blaine Alexander]

Now, I have to say, for all the love talks, all the hours and hours of phone conversation, all the praying together, it didn't seem to take long for him to go ahead and flip on her.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No.

[Blaine Alexander]

So Jonathan pleads guilty to manslaughter and agrees to testify against Sabrina during her trial. And when he does, the prosecutor projects a selfie of Jonathan that was taken in December of 2013. And in the selfie, you see him. He's crying in a picture and holding up a letter. I want to play a little bit of a clip from that prosecutor asking Jonathan about that letter.

[Prosecutor]

I'm going to read the opening sentence to you. I didn't know that love would feel this good. I feel bad for crying because I know we are doing the right thing. This time frame, December 2013, did you attempt to break up with Ms. Lamoe? Yes, we did. Discuss our breakup. Next sentence. It's crazy to think that we truly, really, truly could have caused your divorce within a few months. I love you so much, but I never want to hurt your family. Do you recall writing that? I do. This was a time where, upon some reflection of thinking of the relationship that I had ongoing with Sabrina, I had come to the conclusion that if it would be best for her and ultimately, well, beneficial to her, I would remove myself from her life.

[Blaine Alexander]

What was the prosecutor trying to show there?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I mean, first of all, like, you know, I love you so much, but I never want to hurt your family. Clearly, he went back on that decision. I think what the prosecutor's trying to show here is that there was this magnetism between the two of them that kept drawing them back together, even though they tried to break up a couple of times.

[Blaine Alexander]

So the prosecution went on to ask Jonathan about some of his writing from a few months later. And the tone has shifted quite a bit. Let's listen to that.

[Prosecutor]

Where it begins in pencil, says, please kill him, God, with three exclamation marks. Why did you write that? This. This timeline was a very. Was a time where I think I inherited a lot of her frustrations against Rob. Her frustrations with Rob became my frustrations. Her demons became my demons. And I had a frank disgust for him that was developing and contributing to me being very dismissive of his life.

[Blaine Alexander]

Ultimately dismissive of his life. I. I just. That That's. That's one way to minimize what he ultimately would ultimately happen.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

But yes, and look, I mean, I mean, here is the absolute worst thing that Rob Lamone did, if you believe her story and, and Jonathan's story. They both are claiming that it was Rob Limone's idea that his wife sort of partake in this sort of, you know, party sex atmosphere. That is the allegation. Again, was it true or, or was she as an active, as active a player in that as he was? We don' but the idea is that somehow this is Jonathan's thinking, that somehow that is in itself reprehensible and led him to sort of have no respect for Rob and somehow ignoring the fact that he's taken off his clothes with somebody else's wife. That's not as reprehensible because he's the one that's doing it.

[Blaine Alexander]

But this whole, this whole notion of selective morality throughout, like, aha, that is wrong and therefore that justifies murder. Or this is wrong, but I'm actually doing the same thing, but this is wrong over here. That really was kind of the theme throughout this entire thing.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, right. I mean, you know, what's, what's, what's right for me is not right for you. And I can condemn your conduct while, while sort of, you know, exhibiting some of the same strange decisions myself.

[Blaine Alexander]

Up next, we're taking your questions from social media.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there everyone in podcast land. I just wanted to thank you all for listening and telling your friends about our little podcast. Let's talk off camera with me, Kelly Ripa. I know there are millions of podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you giving us a listen. There are so many gems from season one from Matthew McConaughey, disclosing that he and Woody Harrelson might be brought to Salma Hayek, telling us about the argument that started her friendship with Prince. Hope you enjoy season one and stay tuned for a bigger and better season two.

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[Blaine Alexander]

Did you know 39 of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving report. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teen safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast. Let's jump into some of our social media comments. There were a lot, A lot of comments about how Jonathan and Sabrina were kind of misinterpreting words in the Bible, twisting words in the Bible, however you choose to characterize it, for their own benefit. So here's what Darlene said. I hate it when people try to use the Bible to justify their evil doings. Brandy Guthrie. I think this is the episode where he says, David didn't turn state's evidence on Bathsheba, which. Yes, yes, it was. I love that line. And I remember rewinding it several times. That was a good one. That was a good one.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you. Brandy Guthrie. Thank you so much for that. That's one of my favorite lines in Dateline. Yeah. David did not. David did not flip on Bathsheba. That's. That. That's. What's interesting is they spent so much time reading and talking about the Bible and using it to justify this. This. This affair that they were having, if not the. The murder. And yet if you read the story of David and Bathsheba, it's very clearly a. A cautionary tale. Like, you don't read that and think, like, all right, yeah, that all worked out the way it was supposed to. It did.

[Blaine Alexander]

We can mirror this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, lots of comments about the swinger lifestyle. Salome Paul says what surprised me the most was the revelation that Jason and Kelly were also swingers. That was a huge part in this story and that they were together and all of this.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I mean, they were. No question. They were. This would all happen sort of after the kids would go to bed and the. And the liquor bottles would be uncorked.

[Blaine Alexander]

Can I just say, I was really. So as a mother of two children, I was just amazed that folks had the energy for this.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I was just gonna ask you this.

[Blaine Alexander]

Exhausted at the end of the day.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I was just gonna ask you. Yeah. When. Yeah, when the kids are in bed. I'm thinking that the last thing you and Jay are thinking about is, let's have some other people over.

[Blaine Alexander]

We can barely have a coherent conversation. We are exhausted. So the fact that parents have energy for everybody, anything else, much less this very involved lifestyle, is beyond Me?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. No, it's. I must say, I thought, wow, weren't you worn out? But apparently not.

[Blaine Alexander]

We are confused, but okay. Diane Toth also kind of touched on a little bit about the two friends. Did I hear right? The two friends talking about Jason and Kelly, who spoke about them are now divorced?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. The Bernatine's marriage did not survive all of this. And I guess the question is, you know, is did this intrigue, you know, the, the wolf pack, maybe. Is that what undid them or is that what made a marriage possible, this little extracurricular thing that they were having? Because in some cases, that clearly is. Is the escape valve that people need. And look, I mean, I'm not looking down my nose at anybody. I mean, I, you know, marriage is very difficult. People do all kinds of things to make their marriages work. As long as everybody understands what they're getting and as long as, you know, you're not hurting anybody else. There certainly exists an argument for an alternative lifestyle.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, a lot of people had comments or questions about the sentencing and all of this. So Brianna Alba on Facebook wrote, is there any update on Sabrina in jail? How is she doing in jail? Has she spoken anything like that?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I don't know how she's doing in prison. We. Look, the one person we really wanted to speak with for this was Sabrina. First was Sabrina, and second was Jonathan. Those are the two people I wanted to talk most with. And third was the prosecutor because I wanted to know what got you from Jonathan actually committing the crime to her being the ringleader? Because what is there besides Jonathan's word that she was the ringleader in all this? And none of those people wanted us, wanted to talk with us, the answer was no. Now, in California, where everybody's incarcerated, doing electronic interviews, radio or TV from prison is much more difficult than in other states because some laws were enacted after Charles Manson gave a bunch of TV interviews to make it harder for prison inmates to appear on television. So it's. It's much harder in California to speak with people who are incarcerated in the state system than in other. Than in other states.

[Blaine Alexander]

And then this last one from Lisa Helfrich, I want to read this. I have to say, I think this is the most riveting episode of Dateline ever since it aired. I've spent a sad amount of time watching footage from the trial. And for the record, Josh Mankiewicz is my favorite Dateline host. I've already told my loved ones that if, God forbid, I am missing or murdered, I want Josh to cover it. So There you go.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Okay. I have two things to say to that. One, Lisa, thank you. Two, a year from now, you'll be saying Blaine Alexander is your favorite Dayline host.

[Blaine Alexander]

That is very, very kind.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

They will be absolutely saying that to you, too. Yeah. And you're like, huh, Noted. Okay, yeah, sure, sure. I will cover your horrifying disappearance.

[Blaine Alexander]

Disappearance. It's kind of an honor in a way. We hope it never comes to pass. We don't ever want to cover you, Lisa, or anybody.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That's right.

[Blaine Alexander]

Thanks.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That's right.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay. Well, this has been quite a discussion for quite an episode. Josh, always, always great to share a mic with you, my friend. Thank you so much for talking dateline.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you. And great to see you and hear you here on Talking DATELINE and many more to come.

[Blaine Alexander]

Absolutely. Can't wait. And that's it for Talking DATELINE this week. To dive even deeper into this case, make sure to check out Josh's six episode podcast of the same name, Deadly Mirage. You can find it wherever you get your podcast. Also, make sure to follow DATELINE True Crime Weekly where you can get daily coverage of the Sean Combs trial in our latest podcast series on Trial. Remember, if you got any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can always reach us 247 on social media a. And if you have a question for Talking Dateline, you can record a message and send it to us on social media or call this phone number and leave a voicemail. That number is 212-413-5252. You never know who will answer it. And you'll have a chance to possibly hear your voice featured on an upcoming episode. And of course, we will see you Fridays on DATELINE on NBC. Thanks as always for listening.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there everyone in podcast land. I just wanted to thank you all for listening and telling your friends about our little podcast. Let's talk off camera with me, Kelly Ripa. I know there are millions of podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you giving us a listen. There are so many gems from season one from Matthew McConaughey disclosing that he and Woody Harrell Carlson might be brothers to Salma Hayek telling us about the argument that started her friendship with Prince. Hope you enjoy season one and stay tuned for a bigger and better season two.