Talking Dateline: Deadly Obsession

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: Deadly Obsession"

Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In the "Deadly Obsession" episode of the "Talking Dateline" series, hosts Keith Morrison and Andrea Canning delve into a chilling true-crime case from 2002. The discussion centers around the brutal murders of Mike Sisco and Karen Harkness in Topeka, Kansas, exploring the intricate investigation that spanned over two decades and culminated in three separate trials before justice was served.

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Case Overview: The Tragic Murders

The episode begins with Keith Morrison setting the stage for the "Deadly Obsession" case. On July 4, 2002, Mike Sisco and his wife Karen were found murdered in their home. The investigation initially lacked concrete evidence, making the case particularly perplexing.

Keith Morrison (00:00): "This is back in 2002 when Mike Sisco and Karen Harkness were found murdered in Karen's home in Topeka, Kansas."

Investigation and Suspect Identification

As the investigation unfolded, suspicion eventually fell on Dana Chandler, Mike's daughter. However, the evidence against her was largely circumstantial, relying on vague connections rather than solid proof. Andrea Canning highlights the challenges faced by investigators:

Andrea Canning (02:44): "No one saw her in Topeka. There was one gas station clerk who thinks they said 70% sure it was her."

The defense capitalized on the lack of concrete evidence, emphasizing reasonable doubt. Dana's alibi—that she was hiking in the Rocky Mountain National Park—was scrutinized due to the significant distance from Topeka.

Keith Morrison (03:11): "An eight-hour drive away from Topeka, Kansas."

The Three Trials: A Relentless Pursuit of Justice

The case against Dana Chandler was marked by persistence, leading to three separate trials. Andrea Canning notes that three trials are exceptionally rare, underscoring the district attorney's determination not to relent despite the shaky evidence base.

Andrea Canning (02:05): "Three trials. Two is frequent, but three hardly ever."

In each trial, the prosecution struggled to present definitive evidence linking Dana to the murders. The jury's skepticism was evident, often hinging on Dana's perceived obsession and erratic behavior rather than tangible proof.

Jury Deliberations and the Mistrial

A pivotal moment in the episode is the interview with Benjamin Alford, a juror from the second trial in 2022. Alford provides an inside look into the jury's deliberations, revealing the challenges they faced in reaching a unanimous verdict.

Benjamin Alford (12:21): "We were at a 50. 50 split. 6. 6."

The jurors utilized playing cards to anonymously vote, with red representing guilty and black for not guilty. The stalemate highlighted the absence of compelling evidence, leading to a mistrial.

Benjamin Alford (13:35): "There was nothing tangible. Everything was circumstantial."

The primary factors influencing the jurors who leaned towards guilt were Dana's alleged rage and jealousy. However, the lack of concrete evidence made it difficult to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

Dana Chandler's Defense and Final Conviction

In the third trial, Dana Chandler chose to represent herself, a decision that significantly impacted the outcome. Andrea Canning suggests that this move reflected Dana's narcissistic tendencies and ultimately weakened her defense.

Keith Morrison (15:35): "She did not do herself any favors by representing herself."

The culmination of these trials saw Dana Chandler finally being brought to justice, but not without significant emotional and psychological tolls on all parties involved.

Impact on the Victims' Family: Haley's Struggle

The episode also sheds light on Haley, Dana's daughter, who has been deeply affected by her mother's actions. Andrea Canning describes Haley's ongoing battle with uncertainty and the absence of closure.

Andrea Canning (16:53): "Like, what is going on? Did my mom do this? Didn't my mom do this?"

Haley's attempt to rebuild her life, including moving to Colorado for a fresh start, was complicated by Dana's persistent attempts to reconnect, further destabilizing her sense of security.

Andrea Canning (17:43): "She starts recording their phone calls, just on her own."

The emotional strain on Haley is compounded by witnessing her mother's erratic behavior, both during her upbringing and the aftermath of the murders.

Audience Questions and Host Insights

The latter part of the episode features interactions with the audience, where fans pose questions about the case and the behaviors observed in Dana Chandler.

1. Narcissistic Tendencies of Dana Chandler

   Question from Lucy Tavares (21:28):
   "How many of you thought that Dana had such narcissistic tendencies, especially when she took over her own case and defended herself?"

   Andrea Canning responds by acknowledging Dana's overconfidence and the detrimental impact it had on her defense.

   Andrea Canning (22:35): "Yeah, absolutely."

2. Character of Mike and Karen Sisco

   Question from Ike H. (22:35):
   "Mike and Karen seemed like people you would have wanted to be friends with."

   Andrea and Keith reflect on the Siscos' vibrant personalities and their hopes for the future.

   Andrea Canning (22:45): "They like to have fun. They met at a bar, from what I was told."

3. Courtroom Technology Query

   Question from Murder Mystery X (23:06):
   "What was that court clerk doing with that device over her mouth during the trial?"

   Andrea explains that the device is a speech-to-text tool, essential for accurate transcription.

   Andrea Canning (23:24): "They're just repeating everything. It's over their mouth, repeating every word."

4. Advice on Legal Representation

   Question from Rawhide Velvet (24:38):
   "Talk to the cops all you want, but to do it without a lawyer is just stupid."

   Andrea and Keith strongly advocate for legal representation when dealing with law enforcement.

   Andrea Canning (24:40): "And even at the very least, just to calm your nerves and have someone there just for you."

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Conclusion: The Lingering Effects of a True Crime Case

"Deadly Obsession" serves as a poignant reminder of the enduring impact true-crime cases have on victims' families and the complexities involved in seeking justice. Dana Chandler's three trials highlight the challenges of prosecuting cases with limited concrete evidence, while Haley's story underscores the personal toll such tragedies exact on innocent family members.

The episode also emphasizes the importance of professional legal representation and the detrimental effects of self-defense in court. Through engaging discussion and insightful interviews, Keith Morrison and Andrea Canning provide a comprehensive exploration of a case that remained unsolved for years, ultimately offering closure while acknowledging the lasting scars left behind.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Keith Morrison (00:00): "This is back in 2002 when Mike Sisco and Karen Harkness were found murdered in Karen's home in Topeka, Kansas."

• Andrea Canning (02:44): "No one saw her in Topeka. There was one gas station clerk who thinks they said 70% sure it was her."

• Benjamin Alford (12:21): "We were at a 50. 50 split. 6. 6."

• Andrea Canning (13:35): "There was nothing tangible. Everything was circumstantial."

• Keith Morrison (15:35): "She did not do herself any favors by representing herself."

• Andrea Canning (16:53): "Like, what is going on? Did my mom do this? Didn't my mom do this?"

• Andrea Canning (22:35): "Yeah, absolutely."

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Final Thoughts

"Deadly Obsession" offers an in-depth examination of a perplexing true-crime case, blending investigative journalism with personal narratives to provide a holistic view of the events and their repercussions. For those interested in understanding the nuances of long-term investigations and the human stories intertwined with them, this episode of Dateline NBC's podcast series is both informative and emotionally compelling.

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For more episodes and exclusive content, subscribers can visit DatelinePremium.com.

Transcript

[Keith Morrison]

DATELINE is sponsored by Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes that we're endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity in the American dream. Starts with purpose. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's or doctoral degree, GCU provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams, offering 340 academic programs as of September 2024. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University, Private Christian affordable Visit gcu. Edu hello, I'm Keith Morrison, and I'm here with the one and only Andrea Canning. I like that we are talking dateline. Today's episode is called Deadly Obsession. This is back in 2002 when Mike Sisco and Karen Harkness were found murdered in Karen's home in Topeka, Kansas. The investigation uncovered a suspect with a motive for murder, but it would take the determination of Mike's daughter and three trials before the killer was brought to justice. If you haven't heard the episode yet, it's the one right below this one on our list of podcasts. So go there and listen to it or watch it if you wish. Stream it on Peacock and then come back here. And when you come back, Andrea has a clip to share, among other things, from her interview with the jury. Four person from Dana's second trial in 2022. He's got some interesting things to say about what went on inside the deliberation room, often a surprise. And it was this time, too. Later, we'll be back to answer some of your questions from social media, so stick around for that. In the meantime. Hello, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hello, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

This was an interesting story that took a long, long time to clear My heaven.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it did. I mean, you know, we don't get that very often. Three trials.

[Keith Morrison]

Two is frequent, but three hardly ever.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, that's really when the DA is bold and they're like, we're not giving up.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, sure.

[Andrea Canning]

So that's what happened here.

[Keith Morrison]

It's what happened here. And it was fascinating for the reason that there, you know, the obvious reason that there just wasn't any particular evidence that would point to this woman except for some vague circumstantial stuff. It had to be all piled together. But I mean, did you find the evidence a little bit weak in this one?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, if you're looking for fingerprints or a witness or DNA or that she sort of even vaguely confessed or something, it just didn't have any of those things. You know, no one saw her in Topeka. There was one gas station clerk who thinks they said 70% sure it was her. Halfway between Denver and Topeka.

[Keith Morrison]

It seems to me that 70% is another word for reasonable doubt. But, you know, who am I to.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, I think that was the crux of this right for the defense was reasonable doubt.

[Keith Morrison]

How far away did she live from Topeka? Remind me now.

[Andrea Canning]

Eight hours.

[Keith Morrison]

An eight hour drive away from Topeka, Kansas.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

So the allegation is that she drove there and back in the course of what, 24, 25, 27 hours, something like that.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it was quick. Her alibi was that she was in Rocky Mountain National Park. So it was eight hours. They think that she drove the straight shot from Denver to Topeka. And then I don't think we got into this in very much detail, but they think afterwards she went into Nebraska, I believe it was, and then like came around in a weird way to go home.

[Keith Morrison]

So how would. How would they know that she took that route?

[Andrea Canning]

There's a lot of theories, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Speculative is the word that comes to mind.

[Andrea Canning]

A lot of speculation in this particular episode.

[Keith Morrison]

I mean, look, you know, we've done stories where the computer in a car will reveal kind of where the car went and when it went. There no such technology in her car?

[Andrea Canning]

No, there was nothing in her car. And also, I mean, there's other things, too. That's 2002. You know, they made a lot out of that. Her phone was turned off for 27 hours. But then if you think about 2002, we didn't have Internet on our phones. We weren't looking for the latest headlines every five minutes. We weren't texting people all day long.

[Keith Morrison]

Isn't it fascinating, actually, to interrupt you for a moment?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Because our origins are in Canada. And my whole philosophy about media is very McLuhan esque. Right. We are creatures of our machines, and the machines change who we are and what we are and how we behave and everything about us. So now, looking at the world today, you couldn't imagine that somebody would go for all that length of time.

[Andrea Canning]

No.

[Keith Morrison]

With a phone turned off without consulting it. Without anything, or without any technology in the car or anywhere else that would reveal where she was. You can't do that anymore.

[Andrea Canning]

There was nothing.

[Keith Morrison]

But then it was possible, wasn't it?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, back then, you know, that. Especially if she's saying she was hiking in the mountains and maybe you're not getting service in the mountains. Maybe. You know, there's any number of reasons. You wouldn't be on your phone if that was true. If she. They don't actually believe she was in the mountains.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, they don't know, though, do they?

[Andrea Canning]

They don't know, but it's. The interesting thing was, though, that she's saying she was camping and there were big forest fires going on.

[Keith Morrison]

But how far away from these fires was she?

[Andrea Canning]

I think the thought was that she was close enough that that smoke would be, you know, in her vicinity. And let's not forget, she gave two different accounts of where she was that night. Initially, she said she slept in her apartment and she was alone. Then she told her friend Jeff, this man that she tried to get to help her with her legal, her defense. She told him that she had slept in her car while she was camping. So we have two different stories about where she was, and.

[Keith Morrison]

Quite different story. Completely different stories.

[Andrea Canning]

And, you know, and that's like the beginning of the end a lot of times for people. Right. Is these the conflicting stories?

[Keith Morrison]

But I kept going back to, wow. I mean, that was the evidence. The evidence was what the evidence was. But even in 2002, where DNA was nowhere near as advanced as it is now, going into somebody's house and shooting two people in cold blood and getting out again and getting in your car and driving God knows how long to get back to your house again, doing all of that without leaving a single hair or trace of anything behind. I mean, was she wearing some sort of special CSI gear when she went in this house or what?

[Andrea Canning]

We don't know that, obviously, but some people criticized the, you know, the crime scene texts and how that was done. But her friend had just been with her before the July 4th holiday. They've spent that day in the mountains. And she said she was doing great. Dana was happy. They had fun. She didn't even talk about her ex. And then that's what was so weird. And then what, she's just gonna suddenly snap like that? But the detective did say that there was a phone call that Friday between Dana and Mike, and there's speculation that he might have told her, you know what? I'm marrying Karen.

[Keith Morrison]

How would a marriage affect the rest of Dana's life?

[Andrea Canning]

I think the way that they would see it, the prosecutor, the detective, they would see it of this obsession of hers and this jealousy and rage, and that pushed her over. And it's not about anything logical. They would say it's the obsession.

[Keith Morrison]

If he put a ring on her finger, what's the difference?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I don't think Dana. I don't think Dana liked that. Well, she was already. Even before the murder, she was driving them crazy about it with the phone call, the hundreds of phone calls and the emails and the showing up like she's on the trampoline.

[Keith Morrison]

Tell me more about this trampoline, because that kind of stands out in people's minds as an important event.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, for me, the trampoline was the moment of the story. That was the Glenn Close, if you will, Fatal Attraction moment of everything. Right. It could be the bunny moment almost, except for not as violent. There was a custody hearing, and Mike's sister was visiting, and they went back to Mike's to spend the night at Mike's. His sister was scared. She felt really uncomfortable after the custody hearing, and she just had this bad feeling about Dana, and she was worried that Dana might do something. And Mike's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's fine. Look, I'm here. You take my bed. I'll sleep on the couch. I'm here to protect you, your brother.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

And they. In the middle of the night, they hear this bounce, bounce, boing, boing. The springs. Right, sure. Boing, boing. And they're like, what is that? And they look out the blinds and there's Dana jumping on the trampoline in the backyard, laughing hysterically. I mean, that's a Bonnie Boiler type moment. I mean, it's. The problem for Daena is that it's so hard to get around all that erratic behavior.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm not saying she's crazy, but, you know, that's. That's the terminology that you heard. She hated Karen and she. She was jealous and obsessed and full of rage, and that was driving the train.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, I guess according to the jury, it did. And maybe it did. However, we have the view from the middle jury. Right? The.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes, yes.

[Keith Morrison]

So we're going to hear an extra clip after this little break, if you don't mind, from your interview with the jury, for a person whose name was Benjamin Alford, like an Alford plea, only that was his name from the 2022 trial. And he's going to explain what led to a mistrial and say some fascinating things about what goes on in a jury. This episode is brought to you by Progressive where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average. Quote [e-mail] to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states.

[Andrea Canning]

Every morning we choose how to begin our day. I think about the people at home. They tune in because they are curious. They care about their world and they care about each other.

[Keith Morrison]

There's always something new to learn, whether.

[Andrea Canning]

A news event or a new recipe. And when we step through the morning.

[Keith Morrison]

Together, it makes the rest of the day better.

[Andrea Canning]

We come here to make the most of today. We are family. We are today.

[Keith Morrison]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired. Inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcasts.

[Keith Morrison]

If she had not acted as her own defense attorney, do you think that they would have got a conviction that last time around?

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, it's hard to say because she would have had that really good defense team again.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And you know, I think what you said at the very beginning of this talking date line, reasonable doubt and they were very effective obviously in that second trial. And so who's to say that they wouldn't have been effective again?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, and here is our interview clip with the jury. Four person Benjamin Alford from the second trial in 2022.

[Andrea Canning]

You decided to use playing cards.

[C]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

As a way to vote guilty or not guilty.

[C]

Yeah. The best way to determine to start off and then to move forward, I thought would be to come up with a system where we could vote anonymously. We chose red for guilty and black for not guilty. Everybody chose a card from the deck based on what they their verdict was.

[Andrea Canning]

And then you put all the cards.

[C]

Then we put all of the cards in the middle and then I pulled them out, shuffled them and then we flipped them one by one to find out where we were.

[Andrea Canning]

Where were you?

[C]

We were at a 50. 50 split. 6. 6.

[Andrea Canning]

What was your first vote?

[C]

Not guilty.

[Andrea Canning]

Not guilty. Where do you go from there when it's split. Six. Six.

[C]

At that point, once we realized that, okay, we're at a split. What's it gonna take to get either way? We talked about it. You know, one of the biggest issues was the drive and the timeline. Things didn't add up. The elephant in the room was there was nothing that actually tied Chandler to the location.

[Andrea Canning]

Nothing Put in your eyes. Dana Chandler into Topeka, Kansas.

[C]

Nothing tangible. Everything was circumstantial.

[Andrea Canning]

The people who felt she was guilty, what was convincing them?

[C]

Rage.

[Andrea Canning]

When you realize that you're split, is that kind of like, guys, I think were done.

[C]

We did the vote at this point, kept our card for the last one, and it was all right, so you. This is your vote. If we're gonna call it, you need to explain your position and why you chose it.

[Andrea Canning]

So wait, was everyone not anonymous anymore.

[C]

On this last day?

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, okay. Interesting.

[C]

And this was. If we're gonna call it, then we should at least know why each of us. You know, obviously, you're all in a room together. There's only 12 of you. It's pretty easy to figure out who's a guilty, not guilty.

[Andrea Canning]

Did that help at all? Hearing everyone finally, you know, openly give their decision?

[C]

It helped close everything. Like, as far as coming to a conclusion that we can't move forward. No amount of discussion would bring us there.

[Andrea Canning]

That's so frustrating. And that's not what you want.

[C]

It's not what I wanted, and it's not like I wasn't going to try and pressure anybody towards any decision. Everyone needed to make their own decision. And so then I wrote up my statement.

[Andrea Canning]

You sent it to the judge?

[C]

I sent it and was, like, passed it around. Everybody read it. Does everybody agree?

[Andrea Canning]

Hung jury, mistrial.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Interesting, interesting. Smart guy. And clearly somebody who wanted to do a good job. And frankly, in the second trial, before she testified, that's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to make.

[Andrea Canning]

And he talked about everything you and I talked about. The motive versus the circumstantial evidence, the motive versus the lack of evidence. Yeah, juries, we know this. Juries like motives, but you don't need a motive.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, they're not required, as you know.

[Andrea Canning]

I think in this case, it was motive plus circumstantial evidence, you know, motive driving the whole thing. And then she really. Gosh, she hit that home run for them in that third trial, you know, with going to motive because she showed how kind of out there she can be. Yeah. She did not do herself any favors by representing herself. And you know, it's a cautionary tale. I think most defendants should absolutely not be playing the role of lawyer.

[Keith Morrison]

Oh, you bet. And she was so arrogant that she did it and clearly didn't recognize that she was sinking her own boat as she sailed along.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Let's talk for a moment now about Haley, if we can, Andrea, the central character, really, in your story, besides the. Besides the character of the mother who we get, you know, we discern toward the end of the show. But now I get it. I mean, having watched the whole program and having seen her mother in court, okay, I see why maybe she would testify against this woman. However, there was a long period of time during which she was sort of campaigning for a case here. And that's so unusual. I mean, it is. How did she deal with that on a personal level?

[Andrea Canning]

Because she was. It's like, for Haley, she didn't have that resolution. It was like she was always hanging in the balance. Like, what is going on? Did my mom do this? Didn't my mom do this? I need to know, because you can just imagine that living like that every day like that Groundhog Day of uncertainty and, you know, lack of resolution. And at one point. So Haley moves to Colorado just for a fresh start, you know, with her boyfriend. And Dana shows up and has somehow found her address. And she was kind of freaked out by that. Why is she here? And, you know, I think that was part of what propelled her to say, like, I need to do something here. You know, my mom's reaching out to me. So she. She starts recording their phone calls, just on her own.

[Keith Morrison]

Why did she come to see her? Did she provide a reason?

[Andrea Canning]

At the time, I think just, I miss you. You know, wanted to see her, to know what.

[Keith Morrison]

You know, control what you say. Or was it. Did it go that far?

[Andrea Canning]

The mom would say, I want a relationship. I love you. I care about you. What was her true motive? You know, I don't know, but that's what she would say to Hailey.

[Keith Morrison]

What would Hayley have said? Or did she tell you anything about her? What it was like to grow up with that woman?

[Andrea Canning]

We touched upon some of the things. She'd show up at soccer games, yelling and screaming at Mike. You know, she was unhinged at times, and how embarrassing for a child. I mean, they did have some good times. They went on camping trips. They went fishing and.

[Keith Morrison]

Unpredictable.

[Andrea Canning]

Unpredictable so she could turn on a.

[Keith Morrison]

Dime and suddenly be scary.

[Andrea Canning]

That's what it sounds like. It just. Poor Hailey. It just sounds like she just didn't get a fair shake. The one thing I will say about Hailey is she actually just had a baby not too long ago. She has other children as well. But she's such a great mom, like just from the little interaction I had with her. But we did the interview in her aunt and uncle's house, the brother in law and the sister. And so it was a more intimate setting. You know, we weren't, we did part of the interview there. So we weren't just off in some, you know, doing an interview and you got to see the family in their natural environment.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And I just, it made me so happy to see what a great mom Hailey is and how much she loves her kids.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, yes. And it's good to see the child, you know, not repeat the sins of the parent.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

And so now we're gonna take a little break and when we come back, we'll answer some of your questions from social media. Hey, everybody, I'm Al Roker from the Today Show. Let's kickstart your wellness journey with the all new Start Today app. Everything you need for a healthier you all in one place.

[Andrea Canning]

Fitness challenges for all levels, meal plans.

[Keith Morrison]

That are easy and delicious and so much more. It's built to fit your lifestyle and our experts will guide you every step of the way. Come on, let's do this. To subscribe down downloads start today from the App Store on your Apple device now. Terms apply. Cancel anytime through Apple under profile settings. A true crime story never really ends. Even when a case is closed. The journey for those left behind is just beginning.

[Andrea Canning]

Since our DATELINE story aired, Tracy has.

[Keith Morrison]

Harnessed her outrage into a mission.

[Andrea Canning]

I had no other option. I had to do something.

[Keith Morrison]

Catch up with families, friends and investigators on our bonus series after the Verdict. Ordinary people facing extraordinary circumstances with strength and courage.

[Andrea Canning]

It does just change your life. But speaking up for these issues helps me keep going.

[Keith Morrison]

To listen to after the Verdict. Subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify [e-mail].

[Andrea Canning]

Join me, Jacqueline Coley, on a brand new podcast seen on the screen presented by Make It Universal and Rotten Tomatoes. Meet the innovative people at NBCUniversal as they share their journeys, inspirations and the movies that shape them. Each episode is an intimate and fun conversation about the impact of film seen on the screen is available now. You can find it on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you find your favorite podcast.

[Keith Morrison]

So we're going to listen to some of our questions and first audio questions. This is from Lucy Tavares. I believe it's pronounced on Instagram.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey, Lucy. Hi.

[Keith Morrison]

This is Lucy, and I am an.

[Andrea Canning]

Avid fan, and I am re watching the episode for Deadly Obsession. I was going back and forth last night, but the UConn women's game was on, so I couldn't stop watching that. But I'm rewatching the episode, and I was just wondering how many of you thought that Dana had such narcissistic tendencies, especially when she took over her own case and defended herself. I love your show. I'm an avid fan. Thank you. Thank you. Lucy and Keith, can we just say Quickly, congratulations to UConn Ladies Basketball for winning the national championship. Congrats to them.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes. Are you watching the game?

[Andrea Canning]

I saw just highlights, but I don't blame Lucy for going back to.

[Keith Morrison]

That's a big deal.

[Andrea Canning]

It's a big deal. And yeah, it's like what you talked about, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Once a person opens their mouth and starts to be the architect of their own movements in a courtroom, you get a sense of their character pretty quickly.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Keith Morrison]

Here is one from X. This is from Ike H. 1990. Mike and Karen seemed like people you would have wanted to be friends with.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's. I agree with that. I think they like to have fun. They met at a bar, from what I was told. You know, they like to go out. They like to go to the casino. They like to camp and fish. And I think that they. This was a new beginning for them. You know, they'd been together for a little while, and I think they were excited, really excited about the future.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure. Fresh starts at that. At that stage of life, can be tremendous, tremendously exciting. Wonderful.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Murder Mystery X writes, help me out on this. What was that court clerk doing with that device over her mouth during the trial? Did anyone see that? Of course. Yes. Well, there is a. There's a perfectly good answer for that.

[Andrea Canning]

Can I just. It's so funny that he just asked that, because I was on a different story and I asked that question just three days ago, and. And I said, are they talking into that? And that's what it is. They're just repeating everything. It's over their mouth, repeating every word. And I was like, oh, I don't think I would want that job. That sounds very difficult.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, it does. And that's, I guess, a newer technology that instead of having to type really, really fast, you do use a speech to text device. All right, our next question is from Rawhide Velvet, longtime Dateline fan. We first met her at Crimecon. She says, dude, this lady is smart. Talk to the cops all you want, but to do it without a lawyer is just stupid. I admire and respect police officers and in as they do their duty. And as I've said frequently, I think that homicide detectives are some of the finest people on the face of this globe. I've met a lot of them and they're wonderful people and they care and they're, you know, they're deeply empathetic toward the victim. So, you know, that said, never a good idea to meet with a homicide detective or with a police department who wants to question you without the assistance of a lawyer. It's, you're nuts if you do that.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

It's just not the way things ought to be.

[Andrea Canning]

And even at the very least, just to calm your nerves and have someone there just for you, you know, even if you're innocent, like, just have that peace of mind.

[Keith Morrison]

Especially if you're innocent. Okay. Strong Girl 51. Good title says this family drama is heartbreaking. Huge respect for DATELINE producers for navigating this mess and respecting their dignity.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, that's so nice. Well, we had a great team on this one.

[Keith Morrison]

They're all wonderful people. And just as an aside, you know, for anybody listening to this, we've been at DATELINE a long time and we've only been able to do what we have been able to do because we have the best imaginable people we work with.

[Andrea Canning]

They are the absolute best.

[Keith Morrison]

And Nanon 13 with a good sum up remark, really heartbreaking. Imagine being glad your mother is found guilty of a double homicide. Poor Haley.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it's completely agree with that. You know, her dad's gone, her mom's in prison. But Hailey has an amazing family and that's what she needs to focus on is the wonderful family that she does have that loves her.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. Interesting story, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you.

[Keith Morrison]

Fascinating.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you.

[Keith Morrison]

Thank you for doing this. That is it for our talking DATELINE this week. Thank you for listening. And remember, if you have any questions about our stories or a case you think we should be covering, you can find us on social media at DatelinenBC. If you've got a question for talking Dateline, leave us a voicemail at. Are you ready 212-413-5252 or record yourself and send it to us via DM on social media. And don't forget to join us this Friday and every Friday on dateline.