Dateline NBC – Talking Dateline: Malice (March 4, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this special “Talking Dateline” episode, host Lester Holt is joined by Senior Producer Alison Orr and Producer Anne Priceman to dive deep into “Malice,” a compelling true-crime installment investigating the controversial death of Jake Embert in Georgia. They discuss the Embert family’s decade-long pursuit of justice, the twists and setbacks in the case, the unusual role of rural coroners, investigative missteps, and key moments from correspondent Blaine Alexander’s landmark interviews with principal figures. The episode is rich in insider reflections, behind-the-scenes production stories, and listener Q&A.

Major Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Case Background & Initial Investigation

• Setting and Incident: In 2014, Jake Embert was found shot dead in his home. His wife, Susan Embert, immediately claimed suicide. The death was quickly ruled as such by the coroner, but Jake’s children from a previous marriage and his sister were adamant this was out of character and pushed for further investigation. (02:17)

• Quote:
  Alison Orr:
  “Things got started, they slowed down, you know, one step forward, one step back. But the story essentially begins in 2014 in GE. A man named Jake Embert was found shot to death in his home. His wife on the scene told investigators and the coroner who arrived that she believed he'd shot himself in the head. And it was very quickly ruled a suicide. But his children...didn't believe it from the get go. So what this story really became about was their long journey to find out what really happened and to seek justice.” (02:17)

• Family’s Perspective: Jake’s family felt strongly that his suicide was implausible, referencing his plans for later that day and his emotional state.
  Lester Holt:
  “He’d been talking with his son. They were looking forward to going to car races that night. The son left for all of 40 minutes, and that kind of very quick turn seems impossible.” (03:23)

2. Family’s Battle & Private Investigation

• Persistence Pays Off: The Embert family’s refusal to accept the initial ruling led to private investigations and the case’s eventual reopening—culminating in Susan’s conviction after three trials.

• Private Investigator Lee Wilson: Hired by Jake’s sister Yvonne after she found him via Google. Wilson did the legwork lacking from law enforcement, delving into Susan’s past, gathering records, and speaking with her former husbands.
  Anne Priceman:
  “He did the work of a police officer, just a good old fashioned detective.” (08:20)

• Notable Moment: When Susan came to be interviewed for Dateline, she brought her ex-husband as a support person—an unusual move that demonstrated the complexity of her personal relationships and the defense’s confidence. (08:49)

3. Flaws in Local Justice & Coroner System

• Coroner’s Limited Role: The quick ruling on cause of death was attributed in part to rural Georgia’s system, where coroners don’t need to be medical professionals—just 18 with a high school diploma and a brief certification.
  Alison Orr:
  “That is the standard in some places. It was very surprising to Jake Embert's family, given how a coroner's determination...is very consequential to a lot of cases.” (06:44)

• Systemic Issues:
  Anne Priceman:
  “A lot of big cities have a medical examiner who is probably a forensic pathologist or at least a medical doctor...In a lot of these rural counties, particularly in Georgia, it’s an elected office.” (06:44)

• Allowing Cremation:
  Lester Holt:
  “He allowed Jake's remains to be cremated a day after his death based on what information he had at the time.” (06:30)

4. Blaine Alexander’s Landmark Interview with Susan Embert

• Historic for Correspondent: This was Blaine Alexander’s first interview with someone accused of murder in her Dateline tenure, conducted after Susan’s release from prison but prior to her second trial. (11:25)

• Interview Preparation: Blaine extensively reviewed materials, including prior trial testimony.
  Alison Orr:
  “She really studied this case from beginning to end before she sat down with Susan. And Susan was fascinating to listen to, the kind of strange, weird contradictions...” (12:47)

• Memorable Quote:
  Susan Embert:
  “I was ecstatic. I was.” (14:00)
  This vocabulary choice, repeated several times, raised eyebrows and suggested, at best, a misunderstanding or, at worst, emotional incongruity.

• Producers’ Take:
  Anne Priceman:
  “I don't think it was a slip of the tongue. I think she doesn't understand, in all honesty, what ecstatic means...” (14:20)

5. Social Dynamics & Family Loyalties

• Dueling Family Perspectives: Susan’s own daughter appeared on camera, steadfast in her belief in her mother’s innocence, offering emotional complexity against Jake’s family’s certainty of Susan’s guilt.

• Quote:
  Anne Priceman:
  “She's close with her mother and does not, just as other people can never see her as evil, as a conniving, plotting, terrible human. She's dedicated to her mother...that's a really important voice to include.” (18:16)

6. Exclusive Audio: The Facebook Post

• Podcast Exclusive: Blaine read a Facebook post Susan made after Jake’s death, aimed at detractors, notably his family.

• Quote Exchange:
  Blaine (reading Susan’s post):
  “To whom it may concern, I do not play games, and I do not tolerate any drama or negativity that comes my way. I am way too smart for all of this, so please back off, or I will have no choice but to take necessary legal action. I am way too grown up to spend my last days here on earth in jail.” (16:33)

• Susan’s Defense:
  Susan Embert:
  “I was talking to basically anybody that read it. But mainly, I mean, I was talking to them. I was just saying that I would call the law.” (16:54)

• Producers’ Reaction:
  Alison Orr:
  “Her Facebook post was, I don't know, it feels like, subtly a declaration. Defiant, obviously, but almost like the family reads it as she did it. She's saying, I did it and leave me alone. But there's another way to look at it, which is just leave me alone. Stop harassing me.” (17:33)

7. The Courtroom, Resolution, and Aftermath

• Trial Atmosphere: Susan’s later trials featured emotionally charged courts, with Jake’s family present in force and only a lone supporter from Susan’s side.

• Judicial Transparency: The judge openly spoke about her belief in courtroom transparency, stating a trial she watched inspired her to become a lawyer herself. (19:23)

• Family’s Closure and Next Steps: Jake’s son, Will, is now in law enforcement, motivated by his father’s story to pursue justice more rigorously.
  Anne Priceman:
  “What happened to his father and what happened with law enforcement's response does not happen on his watch...He really sees this as a correction, an improvement.” (20:04)

8. Listener Q&A: Systemic Problems and Personal Reactions

• Issue of Limited Evidence and Law Enforcement Apathy:
  Listeners were frustrated with the cursory investigation, often performed by inexperienced officers in rural departments who rarely seek outside help.
  Anne Priceman:
  “I think it honestly befuddles people why this particular department didn't call...didn't have a healthy skepticism that every law enforcement officer is trained to have.” (23:47)

• Family as Sleuths:
  Listeners admired Jake’s sister Yvonne's detective work.
  Yvonne (quote from show): “No, I just watch Dateline.” (24:50)

• Susan’s Explanations:
  Regarding discrepancies, such as a supposed pregnancy, Susan stuck to her story:
  Anne Priceman:
  “She explained it in her interview that she took a test, the test came back positive, and then she did it again a little while later and it was negative.” (25:30)

• Changing the System:
  Jake’s family hopes to see reforms in how coroners are selected and wishes for better inclusion and information for victims’ families.
  Anne Priceman:
  “They don't want to happen to any other family. I know. They want changes to how a coroner becomes a coroner...” (25:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Family’s Motivation:
  Alison Orr (03:43): “It was the fight to find out what really happened. And they needed to fight from the beginning. Rachel Embert, right at the beginning of the story, says, I need to find out what happened to my dad.”

• On Interviewing a Murder Suspect:
  Alison Orr (11:39): “Blaine was new to the show...And so she was the first interview that Blaine did with someone accused of murder.”

• Susan’s Jarring Word Choice:
  Susan Embert (14:00): “I was ecstatic. I was.”
  Anne Priceman (14:20): “I think she doesn't understand, in all honesty, what ecstatic means.”

• On Rural Coroner Requirements:
  Alison Orr (06:44): “To be elected coroner in Georgia...you need to be 18 years old, have a high school diploma, and then after you're elected, you need to take a 40 hour course in coroner studies.”

• On Family Engagement:
  Yvonne (24:50): “No, I just watch Dateline.”

• On Will Embert’s Law Enforcement Career:
  Anne Priceman (20:04): “He really sees this as a correction, an improvement.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:17] - Background and Embert family’s skepticism
• [06:44] - Role and requirements of rural coroners
• [08:20] - Private investigator Lee Wilson’s contributions
• [11:39] - Blaine Alexander’s milestone interview with Susan
• [14:00] - Susan’s "ecstatic" quote and producer reactions
• [16:33] - Producer reads Susan’s Facebook post, exclusive audio
• [18:16] - Susan’s daughter’s support and family dynamics
• [20:04] - Will Embert’s law enforcement career
• [23:47] - Listener Q&A: Law enforcement missteps
• [24:50] - Yvonne’s quote about watching Dateline
• [25:56] - Family’s desire for justice system reforms

Summary & Takeaways

The “Malice” episode stands out as a multi-layered true-crime narrative highlighting both the procedural flaws in small-town investigations and the unyielding determination of a victim’s family. The discussion underscores broader systemic issues with rural coroner qualifications and insular law enforcement practices, brought to light through the lens of Jake Embert's preventable tragedy. Through exclusive interview moments, insightful production background, and thoughtful listener engagement, the podcast episode demonstrates Dateline’s strengths—meticulous storytelling, empathy for victims, and persistent advocacy for justice.