Podcast Summary: Dateline NBC – Talking Dateline: Raising the Dead

Host: Andrea Canning
Guests: Keith Morrison (correspondent), Justin Balding (producer)
Date: November 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of "Talking Dateline" delves into the complexities behind the case featured in "Raising the Dead." The hosts unpack the 1992 double homicide of a young couple in rural Wisconsin, the decades-long investigation, the controversial trial of Tony Hayes (who was ultimately acquitted), and the lingering community tensions. Canning, Morrison, and Balding provide behind-the-scenes insights, dissect legal tactics, discuss the unusual exhumation, and answer listeners’ questions, exploring the enduring mysteries and unresolved emotions left in the case's wake.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dramatic Opening: Exhumation and Suspect Doubts

• Setting the Scene: The story opens with the rare, high-stakes exhumation executed to clarify whether an alternate suspect, Jeff Thiel, could have committed the murder.

  • Andrea Canning (02:23): “Showing a court ordered exhumation and saying ‘Did they have the wrong person?’...was a very dramatic open…”
  • Keith Morrison (02:31): “We like to think so. It was certainly a dramatic event in the course of this story.”

• Purpose of the Exhumation:

  • Intended to eliminate lingering doubts about Thiel’s involvement and bolster the prosecution’s case against Hayes.
  • Justin Balding (02:57): “The prosecution felt this was going to be a game changing move before the trial to kind of corner the defense…”

2. A Case Overflowing With Suspects

• Small Town, Big Suspicions:

  • Contrary to typical cases with few alternate suspects, this one offered a “suspect after suspect” scenario, unveiling darker sides of a seemingly idyllic community.
  • Canning (04:00): “This one was just like suspect after suspect after suspect.”

• Profile of Jeff Thiel:

  • Thiel’s continued misbehavior kept suspicions alive for years.
  • Morrison (03:26): “It almost always fits a template...Jeff Thiel just seemed to be the perfect suspect...people were reluctant to let him go.”

3. Other Key Players: Glendon Galker & Prosecution Frustrations

• Glendon Galker:

  • Manipulated law enforcement for self-benefit (avoiding the death penalty).
  • Morrison (04:11): “He managed to get off the death penalty in order to be apparently cooperative...he was just leading them down a garden path.”

• Prosecutorial Strategy:

  • Prosecutors were frustrated they couldn’t retroactively increase Galker’s punishment despite feeling misled.

4. Small Town Dynamics & Ongoing Community Strain

• Community Tension:
  • Even post-trial, suspects, victims’ families, and neighbors remain close-knit—amplifying discomfort and unresolved feelings.
  • Canning (07:26): “How does Tony Hayes go back into society with—I’m sure—a lot of people still think he did it, including law enforcement?”
  • Balding (07:57): “Most of these families have lived there for decades…(there is) still a lot of tension in the air.”

5. Breakthroughs via Familial DNA and Forensics

• The Role of DNA/Genetic Databases:

  • The case saw a pivotal breakthrough when a suspect’s relative submitted DNA to Ancestry.com—accidentally implicating her cousin.
  • Canning (10:29): “Heather…gave her DNA and her ancestry account over to cops…she was totally unaware that it would lead to one of her cousins…”

• Creative Evidence Gathering:

  • Canning (12:27): “They had prepared one of the big pens…hoping he was going to have to bite the cap off and leave his DNA…”
  • Balding (12:27): “He had to twist it really hard…someone’s creative…”
  • Discussion of increasingly inventive approaches detectives use for surreptitious DNA collection.

6. A Courtroom Battle of Tactics

• Aggressive Defense:

  • The defense employed a “street fighter” strategy, questioning evidence, police procedures, and casting reasonable doubt.
  • Balding (14:16): “These defense attorneys were street fighters in the courtroom.”
  • Morrison (14:24): “It belittled the prosecution.”

• Compromised Crime Scene:

  • Defense spotlighted outdated (1992) investigative standards: lack of gloves, potential contamination.
  • Balding (21:11): “They had their fingerprints in various places and (said) the crime scene was contaminated. I think that was effective with the jury.”

7. The Problem of Confessions

• The Hayes Police Interview:

  • Hayes’ statements, replayed on the show, reflected a possible “led” confession.
  • Tony Hayes police interview (17:39-18:46):
    • Investigator: “What’d you do with the knife now that your memory’s coming back?”
    • Hayes: “If I had that knife when I left, they probably got whooped out the window.”
    • Investigator: “What about your clothes…?”
    • Hayes: “More than likely…I would have burned them…But you don’t remember doing that.”
    • Hayes: “No, I don’t. That’s just knowing yourself…”

• False Confession Concerns:

  • Morrison (19:09): “It can happen in as little as half an hour…combination of circumstances…It’s called an unsafe interrogation for a reason…”

8. Jury Deliberations and Aftermath

• Jury Decisions:

  • Several jurors interviewed post-trial cited the defense’s effectiveness, skepticism toward police evidence, and doubt over DNA reliability.
  • Morrison (20:06): “They questioned everything in the same frame as the defense attorneys did…they looked at the interrogation in the frame of the possibility of a false confession…”

• The DNA Dilemma:

  • Even though the prosecution touted astronomical odds against anyone but Hayes being a match…
  • Balding (21:52): “It was 234 quintillion [to one]…that it was anyone else except Tony Hayes.”
  • But the jury was unmoved, with the defense framing the stats as misleading.

9. The Case Continues: Civil Suit

• Active Lawsuit:
  • The victims’ families pursue a civil suit against Hayes, emphasizing acknowledgment—not financial gain.
  • Morrison (23:05): "They’re looking for acknowledgment or a jury to say, yes, we believe that he was guilty...getting to that point costs."

10. Lingering Unanswered Questions

• Community's Unfinished Emotional Business:
  • Despite a not-guilty verdict, the emotional and social resolution remains elusive.
  • Canning (23:21): "It really feels like for so many people, it’s not resolved."
  • Morrison (23:37): "And they will have to go for a long time yet before they are able to get any kind of redress…"

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Keith Morrison on Small Town Crime (06:21):
  • “It’s why you get television shows and novels with names like murder in a small town. Because murders do occur in small towns…same sort of human frailties.”
• Canning on Ancestry.com DNA (11:53):
  • “Watch out, because if they have public clicked on their page, then the police can go right in there. And that's not going to turn out well for you if you've done something wrong.”
• Balding on Jury Reaction (28:01):
  • “The prosecution…felt that the defense should not have been able to name Jeff Thiel as a third party culprit…they felt that that was unfair and prejudicial. And I think it’s really a question for the judge.”

Notable Listener Q&A (25:47–30:10)

- Viewer Reaction to Verdict (25:47)

• Listener ‘Bola Koo’: “I literally screamed ‘what just happened?’…I don’t understand how he was found not guilty. I understand it logically, but oh, my God.”
• Canning: Acknowledges many feel the case’s conclusion is unsatisfying.

- Did DNA Sway the Jury? (27:05)

• Listener Courtney Hollingsworth: “DNA does not lie…I’m shocked at the juror’s decision.”
• Balding: Notes standards for DNA and its interpretation have changed over the decades.

- Defense's Ability to Name Alternate Suspect (28:01)

• Listener Tasha: “If defense opened the door by talking about the other potential suspect…how did that not open the door for the prosecution to speak on?”
• Balding: Explains it was a matter for the judge; prosecution felt it was unfair.

- Other Unresolved Leads (29:14)

• Listener Valerie Koroleva: “Did they ever find the person who blew up [Tim’s] car or wrote threatening messages?”
• Balding: “They never found answers…”

Important Timestamps

• 02:23 — The use and significance of exhumation
• 10:29 — Breakthrough via ancestry and familial DNA
• 12:27 — Creative strategies for DNA collection
• 14:16 — “Street fighter” defense and trial tactics
• 17:39–18:46 — Extended Tony Hayes police interview clip
• 21:52 — DNA evidence: “234 quintillion to one”
• 25:47 — Listener call regarding the verdict
• 28:01 — Legal debate over alternate suspect evidence
• 29:14 — Unanswered questions about threats prior to the murders

Tone & Style

The episode balances a respectful, contemplative tone—true to the gravity of the case—with moments of wry observation about small town dynamics, investigative creativity, and courtroom contrasts. The hosts and guests maintain their trademark blend of thorough reporting, subtle humor, and empathy for those affected by the case.

Conclusion

"Talking Dateline: Raising the Dead" provides rare insight into the layers and lingering uncertainties of a sensational Wisconsin double-homicide case. The colorful commentary by reporters, producers, and audience members reveals both advances and persistent ambiguities in American criminal investigations—and underscores that in small towns, the shadows of an unsolved case loom even larger.