Dateline NBC – Talking Dateline: Running Man

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Blaine Alexander
Guests: Andrea Canning (Dateline correspondent), Samantha Jones (My Friend's House), Lynn Keller (Dateline Producer)

Overview

This episode of "Talking Dateline" delves into the episode "Running Man," which investigates the chilling 2023 murder of Ashley Schwam, found dead in a burned-out car at the bottom of a ditch. The conversation explores unsettling details of the crime, the investigation, the profound impact on the victim’s family, and the community's response to domestic violence. The episode also features an interview with a women’s shelter director about ongoing support for victims and ends by answering listener questions with Dateline producer Lynn Keller.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connection & Andrea's Return Home

• Andrea Canning shares emotional reflections about returning to her reporting roots in Barrie, Ontario, and Collingwood—her childhood hometown and first station.
  • Quote: "I had really come home at that point, you know, to be a young reporter. And so it was interesting to go down memory lane." (01:45)
• Seen revisiting old colleagues and the street named after her father, Gord Canning Drive.
  • Quote: "That's Gord Canning Drive. So that's my dad. So he ran the ski resort there for decades, and they named a street after him." (02:59)

2. Discovery and Nature of the Crime Scene

• Ashley Schwam’s remains found in a burned car with an unusually intense fire—investigators quickly suspect foul play.
  • Quote: "The flames, they said, were about 30ft high... so high they could be seen going up past the road." (05:28)
• Ashley’s husband, James (a fire captain), used his expertise to stage the accident, but made glaring errors.
  • Quote: "This is a survivable crash... there were so many red flags about that fire... it was such an imperfect crime." (06:06, Andrea Canning)

3. Personal Toll and Intersections

• Andrea discusses intersecting lives with the victim’s family and friends, emphasizing the deep emotional impact.
  • Quote: "I'm so grateful to know them now because they're such an amazing family. My heart is just broken for them..." (04:07)
• The trauma inflicted on Ashley’s young children, who witnessed the aftermath and their father's arrest.
  • Quote: "Watching their dad's arrest, the daughter, hearing what happened... that's just terrible." (07:12)

4. Investigative Techniques & Revelations

• James initially deceived investigators with a thorough alibi, mapping out a false dog-walking route, winning early trust.
  • Quote: "He deserves an Oscar if he’s lying, because he was that good." (10:03, Andrea recounts Detective Glassford)
• Forensic analysis, surveillance footage, and the “running man” experiment eventually expose James as the perpetrator.
  • Quote: "They do the videos, he's not there, where he says he's gonna walk the dog..." (10:01)

5. Complex Marital Dynamics & Domestic Violence

• Ashley’s extramarital affair—its context, her regrets, and broader issues of hidden domestic violence.
  • Quote: "There were no obvious signs to friends and family. No 911 calls had ever been made..." (12:46, Andrea)
• Blaine and Andrea discuss the stigma and difficulty for victims to admit unhealthy relationships.
  • Quote: "It's difficult to open up to someone and... say, okay, this is the person that I chose and chose to be with. And now it's not a great person." (13:09, Blaine)

6. Community Healing and The Sunflower Fund

• Interview with Samantha Jones on how the Sunflower Foundation was created in Ashley’s memory, supporting children from homes with domestic violence.
  • Notable quote: "[The Sunflower Foundation] goes directly to our child and youth programming... Last year, we serviced 116 kids that are coming from homes where there's domestic violence." (13:44, Samantha Jones)
• Andrea shares a personal revelation—her late mother's estate supported the same shelter.
  • Quote: "The sale of all your mom's jewelry and clothes went to my friend's house." (16:13)

7. James Schwam’s Motivations & Narcissism

• Discussion on James’s obsession with appearance, community image, and manipulation of trust.
  • Quote: "You felt that devastation throughout the community, just of how blindsided, you know, everyone was." (17:59, Andrea)
• Impact on James’s firefighter colleagues who struggle with betrayal and their own trust issues.
  • Quote: “You run into a burning building with this person, and so now you just look back and you’re second-guessing...” (19:19, Andrea)

8. Social Media Q&A with Producer Lynn Keller

Collingwood & Location Scouting

• Lynn reflects on traveling to Andrea’s hometown and meeting her family, including scenes shot in the Bahamas with Ashley's father.
  • Quote: “Our hotel was right near her dad’s street… It was really nice. That was a really nice part of this such tragic story.” (22:49, Lynn)

Evidence & Listener Questions

• Dog's Whereabouts: Police determined James remotely switched off his home camera to drop off the dog before fleeing.

  • Quote: "The dog's name is Rocco and he's since been rehomed... he definitely put the dog back in the house." (24:42, Lynn)

• Crime Scene Details: Heavy snowfall obscured footprints, but “track marks” were visible showing the route taken from the car.

  • Quote: “There was so much snow that you wouldn't see footprints... but there was definitely evidence that someone had left the car.” (25:33, Lynn)

• Missing Backpack: Still unfound; believed to have been dumped at a location featured in "Schitt's Creek."

• Kids’ Welfare: Ashley and James’ children are reportedly thriving under dedicated care.

  • Quote: "Everything that I've heard is that they're doing extremely well... they're thriving." (28:02, Lynn)

• Ashley's Mother: She died of cancer in 2004.

  • Quote: "Ashley was probably early 20s when her mom died, and it was a huge, huge loss for their family." (28:30, Lynn)

• Critical Role of Teacher: Notified police out of concern, not knowing Ashley's fate; pivotal in initiating the welfare check.

  • Quote: "When she made that call, she didn't know that Ashley had died... she was really going above and beyond." (27:21, Lynn)

Notable Quotes

• On imperfect crime:
  "He made it so complicated. But then at the same time, it was such an imperfect crime." – Andrea Canning (06:56)

• On the broader tragedy:
  "Regardless of how he carried out this crime or how he was trying to cover it up, like, Ashley's gone... what a mess he's made of this amazing life that he had." – Andrea Canning (07:06)

• On betrayal among colleagues:
  "You run into a burning building with this person, and so now you just look back and you're second guessing." – Andrea Canning (19:19)

• On healing through action:
  "They have intentionally reached out in a way to build awareness so that what happened to their Ashley doesn’t happen again." – Samantha Jones (15:11)

• On the community's shock:
  "You felt that devastation throughout the community, just of how blindsided, you know, everyone was." – Andrea Canning (17:59)

Important Timestamps

• [00:39] – Blaine and Andrea begin discussion; episode background and Andrea’s personal ties to the region.
• [05:28] – Details of the crime scene and initial suspicions.
• [09:59] – Discussion of James' alibi, investigation techniques, and the “running man” experiment.
• [13:25] – Introduction of Sunflower Fund and Samantha Jones' clip about memorial event.
• [16:11] – Andrea reveals the connection between her late mother and My Friend’s House.
• [17:59] – Community’s response to learning the perpetrator’s identity.
• [22:21] – Q&A segment with producer Lynn Keller; behind-the-scenes insights.
• [24:42] – Listener questions answered (dog whereabouts, crime scene).
• [27:21] – Discussing the pivotal role of the teacher’s report.
• [28:02] – Update on Ashley and James' children.
• [28:30] – Answer about Ashley’s mother’s absence.

Memorable Moments

• Andrea’s emotional reconnection with her hometown and the personal resonance of covering a crime so close to her own life.
• The devastating role-reversal for trusted firefighter James, and the shattering of community trust.
• The formation of the Sunflower Fund to honor Ashley’s memory and bring hope to victims' children.
• Listeners’ questions provide deeper involvement, such as inquiries about the investigation’s tiny details and the fate of the children.
• Heartfelt recollections of Ashley’s family and the healing work that has grown from tragedy.

This episode provides an in-depth, sensitive look into a shocking domestic homicide, blending investigative journalism with raw personal connections, and highlighting the lasting reverberations for families, communities, and those working to prevent such tragedies in the future.