Dateline NBC – Talking Dateline: Secrets in the Ashes (January 28, 2026)

Host: Lester Holt
Guest: Andrea Canning

Episode Overview

Theme:
This "Talking Dateline" episode dives deep into Andrea Canning’s report on the Dateline episode “Secrets in the Ashes,” which tells the tangled, haunting story of Delbert Mills—convicted for the murder of his wife Patricia Lee in a suspicious Texas house fire—and his second wife, Allison Salinas. The conversation explores the years-spanning investigation, family-driven quest for justice, Allison's subsequent descent into criminal schemes and a murder-for-hire plot, and the profound human costs for the couple’s young son. The hosts also address listener questions, providing exclusive behind-the-scenes insight into interviewing the accused and investigating the case.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovery of the Story (01:10–02:40)

• Entry Point:
  Andrea Canning shares that Dateline’s involvement began with Allison Salinas' murder-for-hire plot in Illinois; this led them to the older Texas fire case and Delbert’s conviction.
  • “We actually got on the story because of Allison's murder for hire scheme in Illinois. And then learned about this situation in Texas that happened years earlier…” – Andrea Canning (02:40)

2. The Texas Fire and Survivor’s Ordeal (03:16–04:26)

• Details of the Fire:
  Patricia Lee died in a house fire; her six-year-old son, John Michael, miraculously escaped by breaking out a window.
  • “To be in essentially a death trap… there’s padlocks. He’s six. To be able to get out of his window with his toy box… that was really amazing on his part.” – Andrea Canning (03:33)
• Child's Trauma:
  The hosts reflect on the unimaginable trauma and confusion for a child experiencing a parent’s death under such circumstances.

3. Early Investigation Failures & Social Class Influence (04:47–06:53)

• Investigation Stalls:
  The original case fell through the cracks, partly because the investigator was leaving and because the family had few resources.
  • “He basically admits it fell through the cracks, which is kind of sad. You’re dealing with a potential murder…” – Andrea Canning (05:02)
• Socioeconomic Factors:
  Andrea questions whether a higher-profile or wealthier family would have received more attention.
• Family Advocacy:
  Patricia’s sister Sharon doggedly demanded action, eventually leading to the case being reopened and Delbert’s conviction.
  • “Sharon… just hounded the Goliad Sheriff’s Department… It paid off… they dove into this.” – Andrea Canning (06:10)

4. Allison Salinas’ Reinvention and Fraud Allegations (07:11–08:38)

• Allison’s New Life:
  After Texas, Allison moves to Illinois, starts businesses, runs for Senate (in name), and is involved in unsuccessful charity and fundraising efforts.
  • “I don’t think we can take her Senate run all that seriously… It sounded good in theory, but…” – Andrea Canning (07:22)
• Pattern of Fraud:
  Interviewees saw her more as a fraudster than a flake, with a trail of accusations and some criminal charges.
  • “A lot of the complaints online all point directly to fraud…” – Andrea Canning (08:04)

5. The Murder-for-Hire Plot Unfolds (11:28–14:16)

• Allison Contacts Ex-Boyfriend:
  Thirty years after high school, Allison unexpectedly contacts James, sharing secrets and eventually attempting to enlist his help to murder her husband.
  • “James was very surprised to hear from her… then she gets into killing her husband…” – Andrea Canning (11:36)
• Police Inaction:
  When James brings his concerns to police, they initially dismiss him—a sign of systemic failings.
  • “He’s contacting the police … and the police officer’s like, just don’t call her back…That’s not how this should have been handled.” – Andrea Canning (12:15)
• Social Media Push:
  Only after James and his wife publicize the case do authorities take it seriously.

6. “Serious” or Fantasy? Calls and Recorded Evidence (13:27–15:16)

• Murder Plot Details:
  On recorded calls, Allison discusses various methods to kill her husband with striking seriousness.
  • Quote: “And if there’s anything involved, a gunshot, there would have to be a silencer. So there’s no sound. And the shot would have to be just right.” – Allison Salinas (13:56)
• Eerie Detachment:
  The hosts note her unsettling laughter while discussing murder.
  • “Hearing her laugh when she’s talking about murdering her husband, that’s…” – Lester Holt (14:16)

7. Interviewing Allison: “Killer Cupcakes” & Rarity of the Case (15:14–16:22)

• Dark Humor:
  Notable interview moment when Andrea brings up Allison’s bakery selling “killer cupcakes.”
  • “Made killer brownies, made killer cookies, made killer cupcakes. It’s an interesting choice of words…” – Andrea Canning (14:28)
• Unusual Loyalty:
  It’s rare for a murder-for-hire target to remain loyal to their conspirator, yet Allison’s husband did just that.
  • “The first person she calls from jail is her husband. And then immediately her husband stands by her. Just like, upside down world didn’t make any sense…” – Andrea Canning (15:43)

8. Trust, Manipulation, and Citizen Detectives (16:30–18:28)

• James’ Background:
  The “citizen detective” (James) has a dark past as a registered sex offender, complicating trust and narrative reliability.
• Allegations of Manipulation:
  Allison claims James manipulated her; she also claims she was poorly represented legally and was forced into her plea deal.

9. Prison Interview with Delbert Mills and Key Regrets (18:28–22:33)

a) Delbert’s Conduct and Credibility

• Blame Shifting:
  Delbert claims his son started the fire—a deeply controversial and emotionally charged statement.
  • “He comes out and says his son admitted that he set the fire… you’re blaming your son.” – Lester Holt (19:06)
• Andrea’s Frustration:
  Andrea acknowledges her frustration in interviewing Delbert, aware of the pain caused to John Michael, and calls his actions “just despicable.” (22:03)

b) Exclusive Clip – Delbert’s Biggest Regret

• Question: “What is your biggest regret in your life?” – Andrea Canning (20:49)
• Delbert’s Response: “My biggest regret in my life is not being there for my son like I should have been. That’s my biggest regret.” – Delbert Mills (20:51)
• Andrea’s Pushback: “Not killing your wife, his mother.” – Andrea Canning (20:59)
• Delbert’s Denial: “Well, I didn’t kill his mother, so I can’t say that… But my biggest regret as of now is not being there for my son…” – Delbert Mills (21:02)

c) Impact on John Michael

• Aftermath:
  The trauma profoundly affected John Michael’s adult life, leading to struggles with drugs and depression.
  • “He told me he struggled with drugs and depression… he lost the person who loved him the most.” – Andrea Canning (22:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Andrea on Survivor Grit:
  “To be able to get out of his window with his toy box… that was like really amazing on his part.” (03:33)
• On Systemic Failures:
  “He basically admits it fell through the cracks, which is kind of sad.” – Andrea Canning (05:02)
• On Allison’s Charm Offensives:
  “She asked James to help her find an assassin… you have to take someone like that seriously.” – Andrea Canning (13:00)
• Chilling Plan:
  “The shot would have to be just right.” – Allison Salinas (13:56)
• On Interview Tension:
  “Made killer brownies, made killer cookies, made killer cupcakes. It’s an interesting choice of words…” – Andrea Canning (14:28)
• Andrea’s Emotional Investment:
  “It just made me really angry when [Delbert] said, I’m here to set the record straight, that my son told me he set the fire. And I just thought, wow, you’re just a… you’re just a piece of, you know what at this point.” – Andrea Canning (27:47)

Listener Q&A: Behind the Scenes and Outstanding Mysteries

Locked Doors (24:13–24:50)

• Why were the doors locked from the outside?
  There’s suspicion Delbert did it to trap Patricia, but without a thorough investigation, it remains unclear.

Motive and Divorce (24:50–25:28)

• Why not just divorce her?
  Family believes Delbert wanted money, a truck, and a new marriage.

Allison & Patrick’s Relationship Now (25:28–25:54)

• Status:
  Still deeply committed, Patrick plans to wait for Allison’s release.

Andrea on Keeping Composure in Interviews (25:54–26:48)

• Killer Cupcakes Moment:
  “You did see me crack a smile on that one… but I would say most of that interview, I was more frustrated than anything else because I felt like Allison was not being truthful with me.” – Andrea Canning (26:16)

Observing Body Language (26:48–27:14)

• Andrea’s Insight:
  Noted Allison became “testy” at certain topics, such as her rival Kate.

Audience Response to Andrea’s Confrontations (27:14–28:42)

• Impartiality vs. Humanity:
  Listeners celebrated Andrea calling out Delbert’s deflection and showing empathy to those affected, notably John Michael.

Family Gratitude (28:51)

• John Michael’s Reaction:
  After seeing Andrea stand up for him, he said, “I love her. It was for John Michael… it wasn't about me or anything else. It was about him.” – Andrea Canning (28:51)

Episode Highlights with Timestamps

• Story origin and Allison’s murder-for-hire scheme: 02:40
• John Michael’s escape and childhood trauma: 03:33
• Investigative shortcomings and Sharon’s persistence: 05:02–06:53
• Allison’s failed reinventions and fraud: 07:22–08:38
• Murder-for-hire plot emerges: 11:36–13:16
• Chilling recorded calls: 13:42–14:16
• Andrea's “killer cupcake” moment: 14:28
• Exclusive: Delbert’s prison interview on regrets: 20:49–21:20
• Listener Q&A begins: 24:13

Conclusion

“Secrets in the Ashes” is both a true-crime puzzle and a tragedy of generational trauma, institutional indifference, and the unpredictable consequences of human relationships. Andrea Canning and Lester Holt guide listeners through a labyrinth of deception, resilience, and heartbreak, revealing as much about investigative journalism as about the case itself. The episode is a masterclass in empathy, persistence, and moral clarity amidst complexity.