Lester Holt (3:16)

So this story really starts at the crime scene, the fire, this home burning in Goliad, Texas. It's hard to imagine a little six year old boy, but John Michael, the child in the house, essentially watches his home go up in flames, then hearing his mother died in the fire.

Andrea Canning (3:33)

Yeah, I mean, you know, as I said in the show, I have a six year old son, he's six and a half. And you know, I was trying to put myself in his mind, you know, if something like that happened to him, you know, would he be equipped for that? Would he know what to do, you know, to get out of the house? Of course. And also in the days that followed and how difficult that is for a young boy to deal with. But you know, John Michael, I mean, to be in essentially a death trap, there's, the doors are blocked, there's padlocks. He's six. You know, to be able to get out of his window with his toy box, you know, throwing it out the window and getting out, I mean, that was like really amazing on his part. I can't even imagine you in that situation hearing that about your mom and also having just gone through a fire.

Commercial Announcer (4:26)

Yeah, I mean, my thing is like at 6, you don't even really know what death is. And being told somebody's dead is like, what does that mean?

Andrea Canning (4:36)

You just know your mom's never coming.

Commercial Announcer (4:37)

Home and you just know that she's gone and you don't know why, you don't know how.

Andrea Canning (4:46)

I'm so sorry.

Lester Holt (4:47)

Yeah. And there is obviously an investigation into this fire, its origins, and ultimately investigators kind of move on, say, you know, we recommend this case is closed. Is it clear why they, why they moved on?

Andrea Canning (5:02)

You know, I did really press the investigator and he essentially admits, you know, I was, I was leaving the department. You know, I had a lot of other cases, I didn't have time. He basically admits it fell through the cracks, which is kind of sad. You're dealing with a potential murder. Right. Because they didn't know at that time yet because it hadn't been properly investigated. But you know, I Certainly have to wonder if, you know, if this was a different family, if this family had a lot of money, if this happened in a mansion, you know, would it have been handled differently? I mean, this was a tiny little house. These people had no money. You heard it, they were using. The father wouldn't let them use electricity. You know, to save money, they had to use these, like, kerosene lanterns. I mean, so I do wonder, you know, if you. If you had more power, more money, would it have been investigated differently from the start, and would it have not fallen through the cracks?

Lester Holt (5:59)

Yeah. And as so many of these stories we cover, Andrea, it's the family that ultimately keeps the case out there that continues to demand for justice.

Andrea Canning (6:10)

Yeah. This was no exception. Lester. Sharon, Patricia Lee's sister, the victim's sister, she just hounded the Goliad Sheriff's Department. She just was constantly over there bugging them, telling them to keep going. Have you looked at this person? She's doing, like, essentially, like, her own interviews. I mean, you know, Sharon's the sister we all want, the sister who clearly loved her sister with everything she had and was not gonna let this go. And it paid off because, you know, just rattling those cages. I mean, eventually it paid off because the new sheriff said, you know what? Let's dive into this.

Lester Holt (6:53)

Thankfully, can things begin to happen?

Andrea Canning (6:55)

Yeah. So the sheriff got this former investigator on board to come and take another look. It really, you know, cracked things wide open. So, of course, Delbert is arrested and charged and ultimately convicted of Patricia Lee's murder.

Commercial Announcer (7:11)

Okay, let's.

Lester Holt (7:12)

Let's talk a little bit about Alison Salinas. Among other things, she was a wannabe senator. This was part of her kind of new life as she was moving on. What do we know about that?

Andrea Canning (7:22)

I think what we know about this is that I. I don't think we can take her Senate run all that seriously. I mean, she did say she was run running for US Senate, but from what I understand, she didn't really show up to a lot of things or really do much. I think it sounded good in theory, but I don't know that her money was where her mouth was.

Lester Holt (7:44)

Yeah. And she tried other things in this new life. She was raising money, charitable dollars. She was organizing events. Things just didn't seem to be working out. And as I'm watching this part of the story, I'm thinking, okay, she's just a flake. I mean, there are people who are not good at business and not good with money. Or was she a fraudster?

Andrea Canning (8:04)

I think the people. There's a lot of people who would say fraudster. I don't think I once heard the term flake or that she just doesn't follow through. I think the people that we spoke to and a lot of the complaints online all point directly to fraud. You know, Alison has had some charges in her past relating to fraud, but there's a lot of things that she has had no consequences for that people are accusing her of things and nothing, nothing ever happened.

Lester Holt (8:38)

Okay, when we get back, we've got a podcast exclusive clip of Andrea asking Delbert Mills about his biggest regret.

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Lester Holt (11:28)

So this story takes yet another twist when Allison reaches out to her former high school boyfriend, who she hasn't talked to in about 30 years.

Andrea Canning (11:36)

Yeah, James was, like, really? You know, James was very surprised to hear from her. I mean, imagine if your high school girlfriend calls you up out of the blue and wants to just start talking and then starts telling you all of her innermost secrets, and, you know, the state of her marriage and her cancer and all the rest of it, and then she gets into killing her husband. So you can only imagine what would be going through your mind if someone from your past randomly contacted you.

Lester Holt (12:05)

Yeah. And then, you know, James, at one point, he goes to the authorities, but that goes nowhere. He gets frustrated and doesn't really put this down, but kind of takes off on his own direction.

Andrea Canning (12:15)

Yeah. I mean, it's so strange. He's contacting the police about something very serious, and it's on body cam, and the police officer's like, just don't call her back. Well, if you don't want to cause any issues by blocking her, then just don't respond to her. What? Like, no, that's not. That's not how this should have been handled, in my opinion. The Pekin police Department, they declined to speak with us, but I think every murder for hire plot should be at least looked at, at least investigated. That did not happen here until Kate and James forced their hand, you know, when they went public with this on social media. And then the police took it seriously.

Lester Holt (12:55)

Yeah, they were very anxious to suddenly talk to him and see what he has.

Andrea Canning (13:00)

Yeah. Thankfully, nothing happened to Patrick, you know, in that time period, because you never know. Alison, you know, she asked James to help her find an assassin or, you know, a killer. What if she had gone to someone? What if James wasn't getting the job done, so she went and found another person that James didn't know about? I mean, you have to take someone like that seriously because you don't know, and a man's life could be in danger.

Lester Holt (13:27)

These calls that he had with Allison, where, as you said, she's discussing, you know, a murder for hire plot, and I think, you know, our viewers will look at that section and kind of wonder, okay, was she serious? I think you could argue it sounded certainly serious.

Andrea Canning (13:42)

I think it sounded very serious. Something's gonna happen to him, because that's my Only way out. Not about the fact that he's allergic to shellfish, but even that's too iffy.

Commercial Announcer (13:56)

Huh.

Andrea Canning (13:56)

Because it takes a while for it to react. So he would have time to get help. And if there's anything involved, a gunshot, there would have to be a silencer. So there's no sound.

Commercial Announcer (14:05)

Mm.

Andrea Canning (14:06)

And the shot would have to be just right. You know, we're. We're getting pretty detailed in these calls, you know, so I don't know.

Lester Holt (14:16)

Yeah. In these. In these recordings, there's. There's some memorable lines, like you have. It's not like you have assassins on speed dial. Also, hearing her laugh when she's talking about murdering her husband, that's.

Andrea Canning (14:28)

I know, I know. And then not just that. Like, the memorable moments in the interview as well, where, you know, she's. I throw out some less significant things to her. Like, you know, the accusation was that you saw frozen baked goods that you got from a supplier and that you weren't making your own baked goods in the bakery. Made killer brownies, made killer cookies, made killer cupcakes. It's an interesting choice of words. Well, interesting way to describe it. I mean, I don't mean it like that. I mean, they were just very good. No, no, it's just given why we're here. I mean, they were very delicious, you know, and it's like you can just see this smile emerge on my. Like, slowly the smile is happening on my face.

Lester Holt (15:14)

I don't think she got.

Andrea Canning (15:16)

I think she eventually did. Like, I don't think she got it at first when I was smiling, and then it was like. Well, you know, I'm like. She's like, wait, wait. And then you see her get it eventually. And then she's like, don't. Basically, don't take it out of context. And I'm like, well, given why we're here, you know, interesting choice of words. That was kind of a train wreck moment in an interview.

Lester Holt (15:37)

I feel like you've done murder for hire stories before. How did this one stack up?

Andrea Canning (15:43)

This one was the weirdest one yet, because it's very rare that a wife decides she wants to kill her husband, and then the first person she calls from jail is her husband. And then immediately her husband stands by her. Was just like, upside down. World didn't make any sense, you know, like, she wants you dead, and you're okay with it. You're okay with her. And then when I sat down with her in prison, you know, I told her, I said, patrick, we just talked to him, and he says, you're his ride or die. And she's like, oh, my baby. And I was like, oh, cringe.

Lester Holt (16:22)

Okay. I'm not the only one. Yeah. That was a moment.

Andrea Canning (16:27)

Yeah. I mean, come on.

Lester Holt (16:30)

So did Allison know that James was a registered sex offender when she reached out to him?

Andrea Canning (16:35)

You know, that's a really good question. I don't know if we ever asked them, Allison or her husband, when they learned of that. I don't. So I don't know the answer to that. I just know that they were very aware and they brought it to our attention about James, but I'm not sure when they found out.

Lester Holt (16:54)

Yeah, I would imagine a lot of people would kind of walk away from this situation. You know, as I look at where James found himself, there's a big twist. He really plays citizen detective, but he has his own dark past as a registered sex offender. This is really a story about who you can trust or who you think you can trust.

Commercial Announcer (17:15)

Yeah.

Andrea Canning (17:16)

I mean, and we needed to take that very seriously as well, you know, because even though, yes, Allison has pled guilty to this, you know, they do have a good point. Allison and her husband, and saying, you know, pointing out James's flaws as well, you know, is he to be trusted, or can he manipulate people? So, you know, we did take that very seriously, and we contacted James about that. And so it was not something we took lightly when putting this story together, you know, that whole discussion surrounding that. So Allison says that she was manipulated by James. So, you know, that's her side of the story. And the other thing she really wanted to get across as well was that she felt like she didn't have the proper representation from her public defender. You know, she felt like she was sort of railroaded into taking this plea deal and that it just wasn't handled right. Her problem is now is that I believe she's not eligible for an appeal with the plea deal that she signed. But she's still trying to find, like, other avenues to get things resolved the way she wants.

Lester Holt (18:28)

You also sat down with Delbr. And it's. It's neat that you were able to sit down with two. The two key players in this. What was he like?

Andrea Canning (18:36)

Oh, Delbert, he got me mad. He got me. I mean, come on, you know, he's like, I'm protecting him all this time, and as long as he doesn't get in trouble, and I'm like, I don't think he's going to get in trouble. Delbert, you're the one sitting in prison and He's. He's saying, well, you know, I'll. I'll stay in here as long as he's safe. And I'm like, no one's gonna believe you, so you don't need to worry about it. Like, your son's fine. And also, this is a real jerk move as a father.

Lester Holt (19:06)

And what you're referring to is when he comes out and says his son admitted that he set the fire, and you could then, if I recall, you came back and said, well, you know, you're blaming your son. He goes, I'm not blaming. It's just. That's what he said.

Andrea Canning (19:19)

Just. That's what he said. Well, okay, so first of all, why wouldn't you tell authorities that in the beginning? Okay, his answer might be, well, I was protecting him. Okay, What. That's just. Whatever. I don't believe him. But then he goes on to tell all these witnesses that he killed his wife, and, you know, how he did it, and then he's offering to kill someone else's husband. And, you know, so it's. The whole thing, to me was just absurd. The only thing is, and. And our editor, Rich Platt, brought this up, and this is a question that I should have asked Allison. I know she would have denied it, but I still should have brought it up and maybe to the police as well as, you know, is it possible that Delbert really did go off to work, didn't set the fire, you know, before he left his little plan that they said he had with the oil and the candle? Is it possible? This is just a question. She's not been charged with a crime. Is it possible that Alison is the one who just when he went off to work, set the fire? You know, that's a question that should be posed. And her alibi was never checked out. You know, she said, well, I wouldn't have had time. I went. She went to some other city. I wouldn't have had time to get to that city and back, you know, to. To have any involvement. Well, no one chased down her alibi. Law enforcement told us that in our interviews that her alibi was never followed up on.

Lester Holt (20:42)

Okay, well, you have some extra sound from that interview. You asked him what his biggest regret is, so let's listen to that.

Andrea Canning (20:49)

What is your biggest regret in your life?

Delbert Mills (20:51)

My biggest regret in my life is not being there for my son like I should have been. That's my biggest regret.

Andrea Canning (20:59)

Not killing your wife, his mother.

Delbert Mills (21:02)

Well, I didn't kill his mother, so I can't say that if I'd have done it. Yeah, that would have been one of my biggest. That would have been my biggest regret. But my biggest regret as of now is not being there for my son like I should have been.

Andrea Canning (21:20)

And when he finds out what you've said about him, about starting the fire.

Delbert Mills (21:24)

Possibly, if he wants to talk to me about it, all he's got to do is write me, and I'll be more than happy to sit down and type him back or write him back and explain to him the best I can.

Andrea Canning (21:37)

I don't think he's gonna really like hearing that.

Delbert Mills (21:40)

Well, probably not.

Andrea Canning (21:42)

And he. I was correct. John. Michael was very, very upset. Yeah, he was hearing that.

Lester Holt (21:50)

I know he takes the mic off and walks off the set, but, you know, you. As you've watched this story, your heart continues to go back to him, what he's been through, how it. How it has really, you know, shaped other events in his life.

Andrea Canning (22:03)

It has. I mean, you know, he told me he struggled with drugs and depression and all these different things as a result of what happened to him, you know, and it's heartbreaking. Right? He lost the. As he said, I lost the person who loved me the most. You know, his mom, his best friend. And she just loved him so much and according to the family, and wanted to be a mom so bad. And, you know, Delbert took that away from him. And now Delbert's blaming him for the death of his mother, which is just despicable.

Lester Holt (22:33)

Okay, after the break, we will be back to answer your questions from social media.

Andrea Canning (22:39)

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Lester Holt (23:18)

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Andrea Canning (23:40)

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Lester Holt (24:13)

Welcome back, Andrea. Lots of social media questions about this episode. Up first, a question about the fire that killed Patricia Lee. Here's Henry Simus on Facebook. Henry says, why are the doors locked from the outside in the burning house? They never addressed that in the trial of Delbert. What about that, Andrea?

Andrea Canning (24:32)

I mean, no one knows for sure, but there definitely was a theory that, that Delbert possibly did that himself so Patricia Lee would not be able to get out of the house. But that is not confirmed. It's just a suspicion from the police. But, you know, maybe if a proper investigation had been done, we would know more about that.

Lester Holt (24:50)

Yeah. Here's one from Sandy Castle at Sandy Underscore Castle, Underscore RB who writes, as usual, all he had to do was divorce her. How many times have we heard that in relation to a Dateline story? It's, it's not like he was offering her anything during their marriage. It would have been an easy divorce. Sandy says.

Andrea Canning (25:09)

I agree, Sandy, absolutely. This would have been a very easy divorce. But you know, the family, they believe that they. Delbert wanted money. He was able to get a new truck. You know, then he was able to marry Alison. I mean, I think there's just a ton of unknown elements to this case.

Lester Holt (25:28)

Okay. Also, thinking about Alison and her new husband's relationship, what's the status of that relationship?

Andrea Canning (25:34)

Um, so at last, when we interviewed Patrick and Alison, they were fully still in love and going to ride the storm. He was gonna be waiting for her when she gets out. Both of them seemed committed to the relationship. As you saw in the show.

Lester Holt (25:54)

Andrea, there were so many comments about your prison interviews. Let's start with your interview with Alison. This is from Tommy Foley, who writes. It always amazes me how you keep a straight face interviewing some of these people. On a scale of one to Nicholas Rossi, how hard was it to keep it together during the Allison interview? Killer cupcakes.

Andrea Canning (26:16)

Well, you. I Mean, you did see me crack a smile on that one. Killer cookies, killer brownies. That's a first for me. But I would say most of that interview, I was more frustrated than anything else because I felt like Allison was not being truthful with me, and I.

Lester Holt (26:31)

Thought this question was fascinating. From Lauren Wright on Facebook. Lauren writes, allison rolls her eyes every time she lies Sitting across from these criminals. In your prison interviews, did anything about Allison or Delbert's body language stand out to you? Hmm.

Andrea Canning (26:48)

That's like. Sometimes I think the viewers probably can pick up on it better than us when we're sitting there in the hot seat. Alison would get very testy when I brought up certain things, like if I brought up Kate, you know, who's kind of arguably her arch nemesis in Illinois, she would get. Start to get very upset and then you know, kind of push back on me, and I don't want to talk about that. She would try to shut me down.

Lester Holt (27:14)

Yeah. And we had a lot of questions about your interview with Delbert. Here's Jamie Olmstead on Facebook. Jamie writes, I came away from this episode with the urge to let Andrea Kenning know how impactful it was to see a member of the media drop the pretense of impartiality and be human. Standing up to an injustice is rarer than it should be, and it gives me a surge of hope to see it. I thank you for letting your humanity override the status quo. That's a. That's an interesting observation and I think a great comment about the. The line you had to walk in this.

Andrea Canning (27:47)

Yeah. Thank you, Jamie. Yeah. I mean, we do want to be impartial as much as we can, obviously, as journalists, but Delbert really got me mad. Yeah. Because, you know, I'd already had the chance to interview John Michael, his son, and I knew how much pain John Michael was in. It just made me really angry when he said, I'm here to set the record straight, that my son told me he set the fire. And I just thought, wow, you're just a. You're just a piece of, you know what at this point. But it was interesting, though, when I asked him about Allison, if she had. If he knew, if she had anything to do with it, he said, I don't know. So what? Like, which is it? You know, I. It was just. It was strange.

Lester Holt (28:27)

Well, this gets better. Here's one from Shauna Manley on Facebook. Shauna writes, andrea Canning is my hero. I have a newfound respect for her. While she was interviewing the father, Delbert, I was just thinking, you go, lady, let him have it.

Andrea Canning (28:41)

Oh, that's so nice.

Lester Holt (28:42)

Pretty sure John's mom, Patricia, would be proud of the way she represented the moms by calling out his disgusting accusation.

Andrea Canning (28:51)

Oh, that's really nice. We didn't air this in the show, but John Michael, they showed him, like, my side. And John Michael looked at the video and he said, I love her. And so, like, for me, that just made it all worth it. And I thought, you know, what it was for John Michael, you know, my response, like, it, it wasn't about me or anything else. It was about him.

Lester Holt (29:11)

Yeah. These are people's lives. And you did a really terrific job telling this story. So, Andrea, thank you so much. And thanks to all our viewers and listeners for stopping by. Well, that's it for talking DATELINE this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can reach out to us 24. 7 on social media, aatelinenbc. If you have a question for Talking Dateline, leave it for us as a voicemail at 212-413-5252. Or send us a video on socials for a chance to be featured on a future episode. We'll see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.

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