Talking Dateline: Secrets in the Mist

Summary

Dateline NBC: "Talking Dateline: Secrets in the Mist" Summary

Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host: Dennis Murphy
Guest: Keith Morrison
Episode Focus: The mysterious disappearance of Carol Lubont and the subsequent investigation leading to her husband, Mike Lubont's, conviction.

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

In the "Talking Dateline: Secrets in the Mist" episode, host Dennis Murphy engages in a comprehensive discussion with veteran journalist Keith Morrison about one of Dateline NBC's compelling true-crime stories—the disappearance of Carol Lubont in 1981. The conversation delves into the intricacies of the case, the challenges faced during the investigation, and the eventual resolution that led to Mike Lubont's conviction.

2. Case Recap: The Disappearance of Carol Lubont

Dennis Murphy initiates the discussion by providing a succinct recap of the case:

Dennis Murphy [01:29]: "I really enjoyed this story. I think of it as not so much as who done it as aren't they going to be able to get him?"

Carol Lubont, a 27-year-old woman, vanished in the middle of the night in 1981. Initially, her family believed she might have moved away to start a new life. However, years of silence raised suspicions of foul play. The investigation, which spanned decades, ultimately led to the conviction of Carol's husband, Mike Lubont, through a combination of traditional detective work and modern tools like social media.

3. Investigation Techniques: From Cold Case to Digital Evidence

Keith Morrison elaborates on the innovative methods used to crack the cold case:

Keith Morrison [02:16]: "Well, exactly. And this is one of the cases we did with a Los Angeles ADA named John Lewin. He specialized in, and I think still does whenever he can. In, you could call them high motive, low evidence cases himself. So they're very difficult to prove. No body case."

The investigation faced significant hurdles due to the lack of concrete evidence, typifying a "no body" case. However, ADA John Lewin and investigator Jim Wallace employed a novel forensic strategy by leveraging Facebook—a platform Carol would have inevitably used had she been alive. They posted a query on Facebook to see if Carol would respond, and the absence of interaction served as indirect evidence of her demise.

Keith Morrison [03:56]: "But it was Jim Wallace who was able to come up with this forensic idea where you put out a Facebook post...and that was used as one of the pieces of evidence to prove that she was dead."

This approach, although unconventional, played a pivotal role in moving the case forward after remaining cold for nearly three decades.

4. The Trial: Building the Case Against Mike Lubont

Dennis highlights the strategic presentation of evidence during the trial:

Dennis Murphy [09:17]: "When I step back and when I think about Mike, he seems to be a guy who gets in trouble the more the time goes by and the more that his story changes incrementally."

Mike Lubont's inconsistent accounts of the night Carol disappeared became a critical factor in his conviction. Initially, Mike denied any involvement, presenting himself as a dependable and kind individual. However, as the investigation progressed, discrepancies in his testimonies began to surface.

Keith Morrison [09:28]: "They do. And that was really, I think that was probably more important than any other piece of evidence, the fact that he would change his story in different times."

Prosecutors capitalized on these inconsistencies, undermining Mike's credibility and suggesting his attempts to fabricate alibis over time.

5. Confession and Conviction: Unraveling the Truth

The breakthrough came when Mike Lubont eventually confessed to the crime, albeit in a convoluted manner:

Dennis Murphy [11:36]: "Well, in 2000, it was 2013, when he was finally convicted and he was sent away for 15 to life. In the end, eventually Mike Lubon confessed."

Initially, Mike claimed that he had unintentionally caused Carol's death by pushing her, resulting in her falling onto a coffee table. Later, he altered his story to admit that he punched her, which led to her fatal fall. These incremental admissions were instrumental in securing his conviction.

6. Aftermath: Mike Lubont's Release and Reintegration

Despite his conviction, Mike Lubont was released from prison after successfully appealing his sentence. The process involved reclassifying his offense from murder to voluntary manslaughter, allowing for parole eligibility.

Keith Morrison [16:24]: "So this originated in the DA's office and not with an appellate lawyer?"

Dennis Murphy [17:31]: "And I think a lot of people are surprised thinking of chapters that Mike Sr. And Mike Jr. Would actually get extra chapters together, apparently."

Post-release, Mike has been rebuilding his life, securing painting jobs, and maintaining a close relationship with his son, Mike Jr., who appeared emotionally prepared for his father's confession:

Mike Jr. [12:33]: "Oh, I think it was. I was sad, but I was also relieved to finally hear this come out of his mouth...I was accepting it."

7. Personal Reflections and Behind-the-Scenes Insights

The episode also offers a glimpse into the rapport between Dennis Murphy and Keith Morrison, highlighting Morrison's unique interviewing style and his connection with the audience.

Dennis Murphy [18:00]: "As a viewer and a great fan, it totally works for you. It's a wonderful. And it's not style, it's you talking to the viewer."

Morrison emphasizes the importance of a conversational approach, ensuring that listeners feel personally engaged:

Keith Morrison [19:26]: "It's a one on one thing. There's one person watching. Maybe there are several million one persons, but they're all one person."

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

"Secrets in the Mist" stands out as a quintessential Dateline episode, weaving together meticulous investigative work, emotional narratives, and insightful commentary. The episode not only sheds light on a decades-old mystery but also showcases the evolution of investigative techniques in the digital age.

Dennis Murphy [19:34]: "You know, and I think we're going to put a, put a bow on this. For now, this has been Talking Dateline."

The conversation wraps up with acknowledgments and a nod to the enduring partnership between the hosts, leaving listeners with a profound understanding of the case's complexities and resolutions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dennis Murphy [01:29]: "I think of it as not so much as who done it as aren't they going to be able to get him?"

• Keith Morrison [02:16]: "They are very difficult to prove. No body case."

• Dennis Murphy [03:53]: "That really was a leg of evidence in the trial."

• Keith Morrison [09:45]: "Listening skills that make all the difference."

• Dennis Murphy [11:31]: "He remained popular with the family for quite some time."

• Mike Jr. [12:33]: "I was accepting it."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the "Talking Dateline: Secrets in the Mist" episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the dramatic investigation and its implications.

Transcript

[Dennis Murphy]

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[Keith Morrison]

Good to see you, Dennis.

[Dennis Murphy]

I really enjoyed this story. I think of it as not so much as who done it as aren't they going to be able to get him? But let's do a little recap before we talk about the spot. It's about 27 year old Carol Lubont. She vanished in the middle of the Night, 1981. Her family imagined that she'd moved on and built herself a better life somewhere else. But as years went by without hearing from Carol, those closest to her and investigators wondered if something far more sinister had happened. Good old fashioned detective work and the social media app Facebook finally took investigators to the killer. It turned out to be none other than Carol's husband, Mike. For this talking dateline, we have an extra clip from Keith's interview with Mike and Carol's son Mike Jr. So let's dive in and talk Dateline Keith, you know, I was struck by how little the prosecutors had to work with here. Were you?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, exactly. And this is one of the cases we did with a Los Angeles ADA named John Lewin. He specialized in, and I think still does whenever he can. In, you could call them high motive, low evidence cases himself. So they're very difficult to prove. No body case.

[Dennis Murphy]

Cynical wisdom is no body, no crime. How are you going to present your case?

[Keith Morrison]

Right.

[Dennis Murphy]

You can't persuasively tell the jury that, in fact, the victim is dead.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And in this case, the victim said several times she'd just leave and go off and live a different life with a different guy somewhere else. So there was every reason for her family to kind of overcome their worries and decide that she'd just gone on to live a different life. And that's why it took so long to solve this case. But eventually, Lewin and his chief investigator, Jim Wallace, decided they were going to take this on. And Wallace was able to come up with this forensic idea where you put out a Facebook post. You know, when Carroll disappeared back in 81, there wasn't such a thing as Facebook.

[Dennis Murphy]

No Facebook, no cell phones. This was a long time back. This was a cold. Cold case.

[Keith Morrison]

Cold case. But. But in 2009, 2010, when they were doing this investigation, they got the idea if they put something on Facebook and if she was around, somebody surely would respond to their Facebook post. Nobody did. And that was used as one of the pieces of evidence to prove that she was dead.

[Dennis Murphy]

That really was a leg of evidence in the trial.

[Keith Morrison]

Exactly.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith, I think you and I are both great believers in having a sense of place for where the story is taking. Taking place. And. And you opened this one with very moody shots of the. Of the water and fog and boats.

[Keith Morrison]

Right. And of course, you don't reveal all about why the boat is there, but it's a visual tease, if I can put it that way. It's what's going to come down the line. You don't know why, you don't exactly know where. You just know that something's gonna happen out there and it's gonna be important to this story, and that's why we did it that way. We could have started in any number of ways. It just seemed like the appropriate way to begin this story.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith set up the board for us a little. Who did these people turn out to be, Carol? Mike?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, they. These were. This was a kind of a stolid, if I can put it that way, young man, kind of dependable. Carol's father liked him. Liked him so much that he put him to work in his painting business and eventually gave him the painting Business when he himself retired. So he. But he was a kind of a steady, easygoing sort of guy and the family liked him a lot. And Carol was a beautiful, interesting, fascinating young woman who was bored with her life with Mike and she was seeing other guys. She was having flings here and flings there and threatening to leave.

[Dennis Murphy]

And one night she does, and then her water car is found at a. At a local bar known to be a place where people meet. Meet and mingle.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, precisely.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith, I'm curious about how you did one bit of video business and that was locate an old fashioned car 40 years out of date. An Audi Fox was the make and model. The Audi Fox in red, in color. And you guys found one. How did you come up with that?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, that was Robert Dean, our producer, who was very effective at doing little things like that that are tremendously important to do. But it was, yeah, I mean, finding an Audi Fox, an old Audi Fox, it was, you know, it was good to have. I think it illustrated what happen and how Mike tried to hide the crime by hiding the car or by putting the car in a place where she might have gone to meet somebody and.

[Dennis Murphy]

Did some business around the house too. I'm thinking of those kind of James Bond tricks of putting scotch tape over a drawer or a piece of paper in a door handle or. Well, yes, and it looked like she'd come back. There was some money taken from where? Who else in that household but Carol would have known that there were a few $20 bills to be found.

[Keith Morrison]

So numbers of conspiracy theories were formed to suggest that in fact she was coming back to kind of pick something up or sneak in for something and hiding and then leaving again. Well, that of course was Mike and he was, he was intentionally doing it to try to make it look like she was still alive to try to throw suspicion if there was any off him.

[Dennis Murphy]

Mike was fairly open at first. Keith wasn't. He was talking to the authorities.

[Keith Morrison]

Oh, yes. I mean, he presented well and you know, he denied he had anything to do with it. And, and then these incidents would occur and eventually most of the early investigators came to think that he wasn't. Wasn't guilty, or at least they certainly couldn't prove that he was. No forensics around the house they could use. So it went, it just, it just went cold.

[Dennis Murphy]

Okay, so if you've listened to the showcast, you know, Mike Lubot eventually confessed to killing Carol, but how did he go about telling his family? We have a clip from Keith's interview with his son, Mike Jr. When we get back.

[Keith Morrison]

That'll be 5287. Oh, no.

[Dennis Murphy]

Do I have enough in my bank account to cover that? Oh, please, have enough.

[Keith Morrison]

Okay, here we go.

[Dennis Murphy]

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[Keith Morrison]

They do. And that was really, I think that was probably more important than any other piece of evidence, the fact that he would change his story in different times. He talked to the police.

[Dennis Murphy]

One of the detectives said, look, I would think you would remember very well the last time you see your wife. And yet that story changed, too. Was it in the bathtub? Did he see her go to the garage? Did he see the taillights of her car as she left? It changed bit by bit, didn't it?

[Keith Morrison]

It changed with every storytelling.

[Dennis Murphy]

And as much as anything else that.

[Keith Morrison]

Seemed to catch him up, that's what got him convicted. Yes, I think it was that more than the Facebook stuff that got him convicted.

[Dennis Murphy]

And as you say that, I'm reminded that moment in the interview room where that prosecutor with such sharp ears picked up on the phrase he'd suggested a scenario to him. You can do yourself some good. Let's spill the story now and tell me what happened. And then Mike says that isn't the way it happened. Well, right, the way what didn't happen? Exactly like that. Are we talking about a murder here?

[Keith Morrison]

Exactly.

[Dennis Murphy]

And he had gotten his mix talked up.

[Keith Morrison]

Again, it's listening skills that make all the difference.

[Dennis Murphy]

Certainly good detective work here, huh?

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, excellent detective work. That particular detective Jim Wallace has retired from police work and he's now. Well, he sells Christian books, talks about, you know, using forensic evidence to determine the existence of God, that sort of thing. He's a very interesting guy. We have long discussions and arguments and disagreements all the time.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith, let's go back to the trial itself. You had the in laws, his former sister in law and others on the stand really seeming quite reluctant to be talking about him to a jury. They clearly still like this guy.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes. Oh yes. He remained popular with the family for quite some time.

[Dennis Murphy]

That's what I find fascinating, Keith. He remained in good favor with the family all through these years that she was gone.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, because they knew him and they said he was a good guy, a nice guy, he would never do such a thing. They had seen him with her over the years and he'd always been so good to her and so, you know, kind and non threatening. So they couldn't understand it.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith, the jury found him guilty. What was the sentencing and what happened as a result of that?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, in 2000, it was 2013, when he was. When he was finally convicted and he was sent away for 15 to life. In the end, eventually Mike Lubon confessed.

[Dennis Murphy]

Again, telling the story differently and incrementally, huh?

[Keith Morrison]

Incrementally. But he eventually got to what Lewin believes is now the truth. They had an argument. He at first said he pushed her and she fell backwards into a coffee table and it killed her. Then finally he admitted he punched her in the face and she again fell backwards into a coffee table. On the combination of a hard punch and hitting the table is what did it.

[Dennis Murphy]

There's an interesting backstory about how this confession is revealed to the family. And you had an interview with Mike Jr. And he told you that he had learned before other people had. Can we listen to it now?

[Keith Morrison]

I wish you would. What was it like when he confessed to you?

[Dennis Murphy]

Oh, I think it was. I was sad, but I was also relieved to finally hear this come out of his mouth. I had been thinking that for a long time. And so to finally hear it for sure, I was. I don't know the word I'm looking for, but I was okay. I mean, I was accepting it.

[Keith Morrison]

He wrote letters, right, to members of your family?

[Dennis Murphy]

He wrote my grandmother and my maternal aunts got letters apologizing or kind of explaining what happened. And then I think that's the only letters he wrote right away. And then Christmas was coming, and so he wanted my sister and my brother and all the people had supported him to get through the holiday season before he sent.

[Keith Morrison]

Some in the family had a secret that they kept over Christmas, right?

[Dennis Murphy]

Yeah, I knew on December 17th and I didn't tell anyone until maybe the first. I mean, I told my aunts. They already knew. Then they got their letters later. But that was kind of a secret. Keith, what an awful place this young man had found himself. Oh, sure, his mother missing. No one knows exactly what's happened. There's suspicions, of course, about the husband.

[Keith Morrison]

A father he loves, but he does doesn't know how much he can believe. But I'll tell you what, interestingly enough, they, you know, he went through what he went through and. And they remain close to this day.

[Dennis Murphy]

We'll talk more about that after the break. Okay, we each owe 15 bucks. Can you cover me? Payday can't come soon enough. Haven't you heard? With Goto bank, payday comes early. Plus no monthly fees with eligible direct deposits, which means more money for me. Wow, that sounds less like a bank.

[Keith Morrison]

And more like my new Go to.

[Dennis Murphy]

You don't need a big bank making you feel small. You need a Go to tap to open a Go to bank account today. Early direct deposit availability depends on payer type, timing, payment instructions and bank fraud prevention measure. No monthly fees with eligible direct deposit. Otherwise, $5 per month. Hey, everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back from season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom, and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast, Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcasts. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of Dateline Missing in America. In each episode of Dateline's award win, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators, all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery. Search Dateline Missing in America to listen on Apple Podcasts. So Keith Mike is Out of prison. How did that happen?

[Keith Morrison]

So he was convicted in what, 2013. But afterwards he applied for parole at the appropriate time and parole was denied. He had already been in prison for some time by that time. The prosecutor, the man who prosecuted John Lewin, found out about that and thought, well, you know, if anybody of the people I've convicted deserves to have parole, it's him. Because, you know, he's a good person. He just. Every good person has a worst day. And in his case, his worst day was doing something really terrible.

[Dennis Murphy]

So this originated in the DA's office and not with an appellate lawyer?

[Keith Morrison]

Well, it was an appellate lawyer, but then the DA decided he was going to go and support this plea for parole. So he went to the parole hearing and he said to the judge, this guy deserves to come out. He's done what he needs to do in prison. He would not be a danger to society, but let him go. Well, the judge, you know, seeing it was a domestic violence case, denied parole. So Lewin was not happy. He went back to the next one. Eventually, the governor denied clemency. So finally, Lewin was able to figure out a way to recharge him with voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. And he was able to get him re sentenced, which then allowed him to be released from prison. So he's been out for a couple of years now. As you know, he and his son are close again. He's getting work, he's getting painting jobs again. And he is living a, you know, he's living a good life.

[Dennis Murphy]

And I think a lot of people are surprised thinking of chapters that Mike Sr. And Mike Jr. Would actually get extra chapters together, apparently.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, right, yeah, that's. That's very true.

[Dennis Murphy]

Keith, I have to ask one question for your fans. You do a stand up in this piece and you seem to be in front of the family house and you're leaning against a tree, and people pick up on that so much. Here's Keith leaning again. Do you know that you have an Instagram file called Keith Leans on Things? Trees, fences.

[Keith Morrison]

Somebody sent me this. Somebody sent me this sign, one of the people who watches our show. So naturally I had to put it on the wall.

[Dennis Murphy]

You know, I'm reminded one time we were all together, the Dateline gang. And I think it was maybe a crime con or something. And you were asked this very question about leaning on things. And you said, I don't want to be one of those people pointing my fingers and gesticulating and walking. And there was a reason to your.

[Keith Morrison]

Lean that was the reason. Sure it was. And you see it even now. I think it's because, I don't know why it is, honestly. Maybe people just feel as if they have to act more and, or maybe they just talk with their hands. But the, the notion of, and, and you, you'd work with camera people who just assume you'd want to do that. So they'd say, start your stand up over here and then walk 30ft as you're talking to me and you can use your hands as you're telling me the story because that was the normal way to do things. But I mean, if, if I'm having a conversation with you, I'm either sitting in one chair, you're sitting in another chair across the table and we're having coffee and you know, there's nobody's, you know, dancing around and walking back and forth.

[Dennis Murphy]

As a viewer and a great fan, it totally works for you. It's a wonderful. And it's not style, it's you talking to the viewer.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, that's the point. It's a one on one thing. There's one person watching. Maybe there are several million one persons, but they're all one person.

[Dennis Murphy]

Well, Keith, you pulled me all along. Congratulations to you and your team. This is a classic Dateline. This is one you can watch again.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, thank you for saying so.

[Dennis Murphy]

You know, and I think we're going to put a, put a bow on this. For now, this has been Talking Dateline. And remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories or about Dateline, you can reach us 24. 7 on social media. Aatelinenbc. Do you have a question for Talking Dateline? Well, this is kind of cool. You leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252 and you may be actually featured on a future episode. Plus, there's an all new season of Josh Mankiewicz's podcast Missing in America, out now. That series takes a deep dive into the country's most perplexing unsolved missing persons cases. Catch a new episode every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Keith, my friend, good to be with you. Thanks everybody for listening to us.

[Keith Morrison]

A delight to talk to you again, Dennis. You take good care of yourself.

[Dennis Murphy]

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[Keith Morrison]

And more like my new go to.

[Dennis Murphy]

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