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[00:00]
A
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[01:02]
B
Hi, everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander and today we are talking Dateline. And I am so fortunate today because I'm joined by not one, but two stellar journalists to talk about this episode. So I'm glad to have my dear friend Keith Morrison joined by super producer Cassandra Marshall. Hi, guys.
[01:19]
C
Hello, Blaine. Good to see you.
[01:20]
A
Hi, guys. Hi, Cassandra.
[01:22]
B
Small family reunion here on Talking Dateline.
[01:24]
C
We love it.
[01:25]
B
So this episode is called Suspicious in Silver City and it's about the murder of 23 year old nurse and mother of two, Cassie Farrington. And of course, if you haven't seen that episode yet, you can stream it now on Peacock or listen wherever you get your podcasts, then come right back here and listen to this episode. And later on we'll play an extra clip from a former judge who has been following this case very closely. And as always, we will end by answering some of your questions from social media. All right, friends, let's talk Dateline.
[01:52]
C
Sounds good.
[01:53]
A
All right.
[01:53]
B
So, Keith, I have to say this is my first time actually seeing you in a while. It's so good to see you.
[01:58]
A
It has been a while, yes.
[02:00]
B
But I have to say there's an important piece of business to attend to. I learned that you and I are almost birthday twins.
[02:06]
A
What are you talking about?
[02:07]
B
Yeah, when's your birthday? You are a cancer king and I'm a cancer queen. I'm July 9th and Keith, you're the sixth. Right.
[02:14]
A
I know. I'm the second, actually. So you're one week younger than I am. Imagine that.
[02:19]
B
Exactly it. Exactly. Well, this was a fantastic episode for me as you started getting into the investigation. Had it not been for the determination the Dogged determination of this family. We may not be sitting here talking about this case.
[02:36]
A
Sure. It's a question many families face and we run into it all the time. How hard should a family push to get the legal system to actually do something? In many cases, families don't feel they have the right to do that or they just assume that, you know, they police departments are going to do their level best to, you know, find justice for their loved one. But families can make a huge difference just calling and calling and calling and keeping up the pressure. And if they think that something has gone wrong, say so.
[03:07]
B
Well, I want to talk a little bit about how you all discovered the story, how you dove into the story. But Keith, if you could just give me a summary of a quick overview of this case.
[03:16]
A
Well, this is a story of a young woman just starting out in Life. She had two children already at the age of 23 and had was now, you know, starting a career at the same time. So she was a very busy woman. She had been married to a local police officer. The relations between the two were not that great. And so it's one of those classic cases where you would expect when they discover her body in a bathtub and the water flowing over the bathtub to the floor, that of the home that she lived in, that, you know, one of the first things they might do is have a good look around and see if there was a struggle and if there was to take some whatever evidence they could, but also immediately go and speak to the husband because, you know, quite often it is the husband in a case like this. But it finally took a new investigator to re look at the evidence and by then a lot of it was gone, of course, but to dredge up what he could to get the case filed.
[04:14]
B
I think in so many ways this story could almost be described as the tale of two investigators because you have, you know, the person who started this and I love. There was one point at which you kind of asked like, what was it? Why, you know, was this a cover up? And, you know, he said, well, no, he was just lazy. And it was so unbelievable to hear because the things that, you know, you were talking about were kind of the most basic of police investigative work that just hadn't been done.
[04:45]
C
Right. Police 101. Basically, yeah. It really was a case of sort of two investigations, you know, so it was interesting to see how you could sort of look at the same set of evidence, same crime scene, and come up with apparently two completely different viewpoints on it.
[05:01]
B
I loved the Way that you all chose to start this story by giving us just a description of Silver City, almost as though it was another character in this story, because immediately got a sense of where this place is, what it feels like. And so I said, you know, if this is what comes through on the screen, it must be exponentially cooler in person to actually go there and visit.
[05:20]
C
And then it's a destination, like, for people who are going to New Mexico. Like, it is a place to sort of visit. So I can see why. I really enjoyed it.
[05:28]
A
It really is. And walking into a classic American west coffee shop one morning and just sitting there thinking, man, oh man, people would pay a lot of money to have a holiday like this in a place like this. It's kind of like one of those experiences that you probably don't appreciate unless you never get to be in such a place. And Silver City is. Cool down.
[05:50]
B
Quick geography question. How close is it to Albuquerque or to Santa Fe?
[05:56]
C
I'm trying to remember. I do recall it was a bit of a pain for us to get to, wasn't it, Kirk? And I think actually it was Arizona. That was the closest airport, and I think it was like a four hour drive from Arizona.
[06:06]
A
That's right, yeah.
[06:07]
B
But I think that, you know, understanding almost immediately what Silver City was, what it felt like, really helped make this story stronger. Because once we got into the discussion of this investigation and, you know, officers knowing each other and even just kind of this notion of rumors flying, this isn't something that would happen. I mean, had the same type of crime happened in la, for example, you wouldn't have the same dynamics, typically, as you saw here.
[06:32]
A
That's probably true. I mean, it was a small town writ large, if I can put it that way, simply because it was so isolated.
[06:39]
B
Keith, I think that one of the, I think most powerful moments of the story was watching you actually be able to walk through the house where all of this happened. Because this was such a visual crime scene, it would have been difficult if somebody was just sitting in a chair, right? Telling you, like, oh, I looked through the back door and I saw water gushing. And then there was a tub. Like, you couldn't have just grasped how deep that tub was or just what the things look like without being able to go through the house. And so I really think that helped, you know, illustrate the crime scene in a way that we wouldn't have been able to visualize.
[07:13]
A
It was a very, very strange thing to be there. It really got to feel what must have happened or what was where yeah, that's a tremendously valuable thing if you're reporting a story, too. You really get a much more of a sense of things.
[07:30]
B
Exactly. And it's not something that we get to do often. I remember my first time walking through a crime scene since I've been on Dateline. It was a house that. It was a young woman who was killed, and then fire was set to cover things up, and the house had been restored and people were living there, and they kindly left, took their young child out and let us walk through. But to be able to see the geography and just see the room, see where the fire started, all of that, it brings the whole thing to life, especially for us, as, you know, reporters, producers, journalists. You're so curious about these stories because we spend so much time, like you said, getting to know the family, getting to know this person, and then to see where it happens just deepens it all, I think.
[08:08]
A
Yeah, that's right.
[08:09]
B
Let's talk about this investigation because, I mean, we kind of titled it subtitled at the beginning of this conversation, the Tale of Two Investigators. But let's talk about investigation number one and Sanchez, who took this first. So I was really struck by the fact that almost immediately as you were talking to the family, they said the question or the thoughts or suggestion of suicide came into play almost immediately. And it seemed like that was something that, even as they sat down and talked to you, Keith, was something that
[08:37]
A
still very much upset them, as you can totally understand. But, yes, I think that there's a. There's no sort of more. There may be no darker place than the life of a family who has lost somebody at that stage of life, who's lost a child, and, and when the cause of the death has been inadequately investigated, in their opinion, and they're in a pretty good opinion about it, and, and it's almost like dirt being thrown in somebody's face to suggest that they would have taken their own life. It made. It not only made no sense, it was deeply insulting, I think, to the family as it would be.
[09:25]
C
And I think also the family was also insulted because, I mean, the question of suicide came up that day at the crime scene. It wasn't like there had been time to go through the evidence or assess the scene. It just seemed a little too immediate to them and I think to viewers as well. So I think that was the other thing. I mean, now, of course, that that investigator claims that. That he never. That he never suggested it was suicide. He. He's. He claims in our. In his interview that he just threw it out as something he wanted to
[09:58]
A
say if it was a possibility. Yeah, yeah.
[10:02]
B
Okay. But that was surprise number one. Surprise number one. And then surprise number two was how quickly the house was released.
[10:08]
C
Yeah, that was shocking, I think, to everybody, including us.
[10:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite right. The family got involved at that stage in having a good look around themselves.
[10:17]
C
Right, right. So, you know, the families. So the police get there, then the families are notified. So when they get there, the law enforcement quickly sort of wraps up and sort of says, you can go inside. Which they couldn't believe it. So they went in themselves and noticed that there was a lot of stuff still there. Like, you know, the bathtub was still full of water. They hadn't even drained it. There was a second bathroom where there was a broken towel rack on the floor, as well as Cassie's glasses and a hair scrunchie. And it just seemed like things to them, and I think things to our viewers seemed like should have been collected, you know, as evidence, as further investigation. So, yes, Keith, they were there. They drained the bathtub. They noticed the scour marks on the bathtub there. They took photos and notified the cops. All things that you would think a CSI unit would do.
[11:17]
A
Sure. Which was tremendously important in the long run.
[11:20]
B
This story made me think of a story that I did in Chattanooga, Tennessee, the pin in apartment 210, where a family knew that their daughter was missing. They saw the PIN of her last location and actually took a credit card, jimmied, opened the lock, went inside and started bagging evidence on their own. I mean, basically went into this residence. And then, of course, there was the question of, can this evidence be allowed in court because of the way that it was obtained, because of the, you know, questions about chain of custody that going into the apartment that wasn't. There's all of these things. So you can look at it as a question of, yes, they are taking steps that, you know, many would argue needed to be taken if investigators weren't taking this seriously enough. But then there's the other, you know, possible risk of does this potentially jeopardize a case? Could this stand up in court? What does that look like?
[12:12]
A
Yeah, sure. And that was. That was a problem. And that. And that indeed was brought up by the defense attorney repeatedly in the trial that this was. You can't use this evidence because there was no chain of custody because the police didn't collect it. It was somebody on the outside and they had a vested interest. So if there was a chance for Farrington, the Husband to be found not guilty. It. That would have been certainly one of the prime causes, and there was concern about that. However, if they hadn't done it, if they haven't gone in there and collected that material, as Cassie said, it. It just never would have been collected by anybody. And. And that evidence wouldn't have been available. And I don't know whether they could have gotten a guilty verdict without it.
[12:54]
B
I think a lot of families look at this and say, it's a risk worth taking. Right. Because otherwise it's not going to be gotten at all, to your point. So.
[13:01]
A
Right.
[13:01]
B
They're thinking, let's just do it. Let's talk about Billy Lee. Billy Lee was an interesting character in all of this. He certainly seemed suspicious from the very moment that you introduced him, because as you said in the story, who just up and goes to Alaska, leaves the wife behind, just goes.
[13:20]
A
And at just the right moment to make himself look pretty guilty.
[13:24]
B
Yes, exactly. But I love that you actually got him down, and when you sat down with him, he just seemed like a. Just a completely open book. Just like, yeah, I got a job offer. I took it. That seems to make sense to me. I mean, just his demeanor to you was hilarious to me.
[13:42]
A
It was very Silver City, in my opinion.
[13:47]
C
Good way of putting it. Yes.
[13:48]
B
Cassandra, I'm curious. What was it like booking him as an interview? Because, like I said, he didn't seem hesitant.
[13:54]
C
Right. The thing I loved about Billy, or found most interesting, was that he never believed that he was a suspect or a person of interest. So he truly was sort of, like, shocked that such a big deal was being made out of him, you know, that the defense sort of pointed to him as this alternate suspect. So it was interesting to approach him after he testified to be like, you know, your name has kind of been dragged through the mud here. We'd really like to talk to you, like, get your side of the story. And, you know, he really didn't hesitate at all. Like, he wanted to sort of get it across that he really, truly cared about Cassie. You know, that they had this friendship and a mentoring relationship. You know, they both were nurses, they both worked at the same place, and he wanted to clear up what the cops didn't, you know, the questions that they did not ask in his. His interview or his polygraph test, which is, why did you go to Alaska? You know, why did you pull up the carpet? And, you know, so quickly after this happened. So this was an opportunity for him to make it very clear, and he was more than happy to do it like he's like, I have nothing to hide. I never did. And so what you see is what you get. Ask what you want.
[15:08]
A
Billy was the character who would have been the initial suspect in a, in a crime novel. Right. Billy is just so obvious.
[15:16]
C
Yes.
[15:16]
A
That he would have, you know, somebody would have been pursuing him and pursuing him until he realized you'd have to clear him and then go on to the next one.
[15:25]
B
Exactly.
[15:26]
C
And Billy would say, and did say, you know, basically he was suspicious because of law enforcement's lack of follow through. Like he was available. They never asked him to come back to do an interview. They never called him and asked what his alibi was or why he went there at the time that he left. So they could have known, in his opinion, they could have known all that information much sooner than
[15:50]
B
absolutely. When we come back, we'll play an extra clip from a former judge who has been following this case very closely and what he believes are some takeaways from this case.
[16:05]
A
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[16:35]
C
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[17:05]
B
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[17:10]
C
But is your hair.
[17:11]
B
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[17:51]
A
Yeah, that's hard.
[17:52]
B
I remember I had a hard time lettering in one. That's. That's a. That's a stunning accomplishment.
[17:57]
A
And this was one of those stories where by the time I left there, and I know Cassandra probably had much deeper connection spending more time there, but I just felt like I. She. She could have been a daughter or somebody. You just could have been somebody who was who you knew. You felt you knew her somehow. And I think that made telling the story that much more important to us.
[18:24]
C
And her family was just so good at describing her. Like, you know, you could tell. You could feel the love, you know, how close she was to her siblings and to her mother, the apple of her, you know, her father's eyes. And, you know, everybody talked about her ambition. This was a kid that was going places. You know, she had dreams and she was focused, you know, and, you know, she wanted to be a doctor. So once you heard all those stories about her ambition and her accomplishments, then you hear, you know, that, you know, that was all cut short because of her becoming pregnant.
[18:55]
A
And it also is, in some ways, people relate more to the story because it's happened to so many young women who had ambitions, who wanted to be, you know, to be a professionalism, and then got stuck in a marriage where the pregnancy occurred, and then things happened and, you know, they had to kind of regroup. And she was. In that process. She was smart enough, she was ambitious enough, and determined enough. She would have made it even with the two kids and on her own, but events intervened. Yeah.
[19:27]
B
And I think what's stunning, too, is that she. Not only that she got pregnant, of course, that's certainly a speed bump in this. In her road of life, but she got pregnant by this terrible person. I mean, you know, once we kind of come through, see what the marriage looked like, see how it dissolved, see the things that he did to the kids. It's just. It really is a true testament of how such a life can be derailed by coming into contact or intersecting with just the wrong person.
[19:56]
C
Right, right. Even when you have all the support system in the world. You know, she had two loving parents. She had a great family. She was focused on school. And still, somehow she got derailed by this guy that was a little older. And, you know, things Just happened.
[20:10]
B
One of the, I think some of the saddest stories, and so many of these are sad, of course, but it's always so tragic to hear when there's somebody who has almost predicted that something could happen to them or warned if something happens to me, it was this person, or I think this person may kill me or harm me. And that's exactly what happened to Cassie. And it's got to be so difficult for those she leaves behind to think back and say, oh gosh, I remember when she said that. Or I'm sure the what ifs come very quickly in those situations.
[20:46]
A
Oh, sure, for sure. And you know that, you know, families of people who get into abusive relationships usually see them before the person involved in the relationship does.
[20:59]
C
Keith, you had a really sort of touching moment with Cassie's mom, like when she was talking about some of the moments that she'd witnessed of sort of emotional, emotional and even physical abuse. Do you remember the chokehold? Kind of, yes. So her family had witnessed it.
[21:17]
A
I think about that a lot. And domestic violence is such an endemic and such a horrible crime and it happens so frequently and so often. You'll see situations in our stories but also in real life where a young woman gets involved with somebody she thinks is really a wonderful person and so, you know, mature and prepared to look after her or help her with her ambitions or, or whatever. The often somebody outside the relationship can see more easily than she can that she's heading down a bad way and. But it doesn't matter how often you tell that person, it's it they have to find out for themselves. And unfortunately by that it's often too late. It's a terrible scourge in this country and this was at the heart of this case.
[22:08]
B
Now it's important to note Brad was never charged domestic violence. But during his trial, a number of co workers, friends and family members of Cassie's gave testimonies about Brad's acts of domestic violence toward her as she described them to them.
[22:21]
C
So the good thing about Cassie, even though she didn't feel comfortable going to law enforcement to report the domestic abuse because her soon to be ex husband was former law enforcement, she didn't think it would make a difference that they would protect their own. She did talk a lot about it to her friends, family and coworkers. So there were 12 people that were ready to testify about the abuse and seven were allowed to testify. Normally we all know hearsay, we call that hearsay testimony that's not allowed. But they made an exception in this case. And that made all the difference in the world in this trial because there was no physical evidence. It was really that hearsay testimony that really established the pattern.
[23:00]
B
So, Keith, speaking of the trial, let's dive a little bit deeper into that. You spoke with a man named Timothy Aldridge. He is a former judge, somebody who's very knowledgeable about this case. Let's listen to some of that interview.
[23:11]
A
Is there a lesson in this guilty verdict that people should pay attention to? Oh, I think there's a great lesson in this. You know, guilty verdict is what it is. One of the lessons is we have to identify domestic violence. We can't pretend that it doesn't exist. I think we have to understand that we are all responsible for each other within our communities, that it isn't just, you know, the sheriff's department's job to do this.
[23:35]
B
It's.
[23:35]
A
It's our neighbor's job, it's our friend's job, and it's all of us to intercede on each other. It's our responsibility if it's one of our partners as a law enforcement agent. Yes, it's our responsibility to arrest that individual. That's just part of the gig.
[23:51]
B
You know, listening to him say that. I mean, that is a really important piece of this conversation, of it is a communal responsibility really to do something. I think the question that so many people have is what in the world do you do? Especially if maybe somebody is hesitant to accept it, to recognize it, to want to or feel like they can walk away.
[24:12]
A
I think that decision for. Especially for a vulnerable person, a vulnerable young woman who doesn't. It's hard to find a way out because they're often being gaslit the whole time anyway. And they feel as if they're crazy if they think that they should be leaving this relationship. They're crazy if they think their abuser is actually abusing and they don't quite know what to do. And even when a decision is finally made, I've got to get out of here. The question of how you get out of there is tremendously important. And so frequently you'll see that a vulnerable person will make a decision that they want to talk it over with the person they're about to leave. And that in. In the. In the repeated experience of doing Dateline episodes on cases like this, that is often when the violence occurs because the dominating party does not want the person who's being dominated to leave the relationship and. And. And can become more violent as a result.
[25:19]
B
I. I want to ask to you know, he was found guilty of murder, sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole until at least 30 years served. His parents got custody of these two children. And I was very surprised by that. I wonder if you could shed some light on that or. I mean, I found myself saying, how did that happen?
[25:39]
C
Brad Farrington was not arrested for a year and a half. So he has custody. He and his family have custody of the kids until he went to trial. Then, according to Cassidy's family, they did fight for grandparent rights and visitation rights, and they ultimately did not get them for a couple of reasons. One, this is all according to Cassie's family. The court system went with the least traumatizing outcome for the kids. You know, they'd already lost their mother to this violent death. Their father was going to prison. They were with the grandparents and the extended family that they knew they didn't want to add onto that by ripping them away from that family, that was the one thing. And then, unfortunately, there were some rules that the court had made about visitations, and in a situation that Cassie's mother never meant, she sort of broke one of those rules, and it sort of like ruined their chances of sort of getting any kind of immediate visitation rights. So.
[26:45]
B
Well, before we wrap up this piece, I mean, we have talked a great deal about domestic violence, and I certainly want to make sure that we put this out there for anybody who's listening. If you or somebody that you know, somebody that you care about is experiencing relationship abuse or domestic violence, there are places to go for advice and for resources. You can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 1-800-799-SAFE or 1-800-799-7233. Or you can text the word start that's s t a r t to the number eight eight. Or you can always go to the hotline.org and when we come back, we are going to answer some of your questions from social media.
[27:33]
A
The snack wrap plus Caesar sauce equals extra crispy chicken Caesary greatness. Sounds delicious. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.
[27:47]
B
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[28:21]
A
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[28:22]
B
For decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for their projects that matter. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project@angie.com Lots of comments, lots of questions about this episode. I'm going to actually go with a pair of questions. Do things a little differently because these two questions go hand in hand. So this question, first is the first one is from Denise Enicem Lombardo, who asks, I was wondering if the fight started there and she got away for a moment. So sad. Second question from Ndrea Lother, who writes great show. Why was the water running in the other bathroom? And so my question to you guys is, did prosecutors ever describe how they believe that struggle between Cassie and Brad actually played out?
[29:11]
C
My recollection is that the theory that the prosecutors had was that Brad Farrington was waiting in that. So Cassie had worked the overnight shift. She was a nurse, and so she came back early morning. Their theory is that he was already waiting inside and that a struggle and her stuff was just thrown under bed like we all do. We get home, we throw our stuff down. And then their theory is that the struggle happened in the second bathroom, not where she was found. That's where the broken towel rack was. That's where the hairbrush, the glasses, all that stuff was found on the floor. So they feel that the struggle happened there. Maybe he surprised her there, the struggle happened there, he killed her there, and then he transported her body into the tub where she was found. And the theory is the running water in both was to destroy evidence. So her body's in that submerged water for all that time because it was quite a while before she was discovered that day. And then they're not exactly sure why, because the second bathroom, the stopper in the bathtub, was not used. So the water was running, but it wasn't filled. But they feel like it might have been running, too. Maybe he washed himself, maybe he rinsed things off. But that's the theory.
[30:29]
B
And then finally, we have an audio question from Andy from San Diego. Let's hear what Andy has to say.
[30:36]
C
Hi, it's Andy from San Diego. And my question is, I love giving cameos to people as gifts for their favorite celebrities. And the response I always get is, who would you want to have on cameo? And my answer is Josh Mankiewicz or Keith Morrison. So my question is, would you be open to being on Cameo for those of us fans to get something special?
[31:07]
B
Do you guys know what Cameo is? First to kind of set the scene. Cameo is a thing where you can, anybody famous can go on. And basically, if I were a Keith fan, I could go on, pay x amount of dollars, 200 and just say, hey, I want you to give a birthday message to my 5 year old who really loves you. And these people do it. We actually used it for a saxophonist, Mindy, a bear who my young daughter loves. So we got a greeting from her. But it's people who are famous that can just go on, read whatever recorded thing or do a 30 second video and get paid for it, basically. So that's what she's asking, if you or Josh would ever consider going on Cameo to do whatever the good people want to pay you to do.
[31:51]
A
You know, as much as I would love to say happy birthday to anybody who would like that to happen, you're so proud of money or no money, it doesn't really matter to me. It's something that we're really not able to do, certainly not for money when we work for Dateline, it doesn't seem right somehow.
[32:06]
B
But as much as I'm sure you would love to wish happy birthday to truly anybody and everybody, money or no money, like you said. Right, sure.
[32:15]
A
If, if, if you wish happy birthday to one person on a program like this and you have to wish happy birthday to a whole bunch more people and we don't have the time, unfortunately.
[32:25]
B
But I know your heart would love to do it if you could.
[32:27]
A
Absolutely. So consider it done.
[32:30]
B
Well, guys, this was a fantastic conversation as always. Keith, good to see you. Cassandra, this was just a, this was a fantastic episode and you both did it remarkably well as always. So thank you for talking Dateline with me.
[32:43]
C
Thanks for having me.
[32:43]
A
Thank you.
[32:44]
B
And that's it for talking Dateline this week. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you have any questions about any of our stories, send us a voice memo or a video on social media Dateline NBC. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252. A real live phone number or your chance to be featured right here. You can also watch the video version of Talking Dateline now on PeaceRock or on YouTube and be sure to subscribe to the NBC News app so that you never miss an episode. Plus, don't miss an all new season of the Webby award winning podcast, Dateline Missing in America. Josh will be bringing you six six missing persons cases with powerful conversations with loved ones who refuse to give up and the investigators who never stop trying to find answers. You can listen to the first three episodes right now wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to Dateline Premium to listen ad free. And of course, we will always see you on Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Premier Hosts on VRBO deliver quality vacation rental stays with fast responses and clear instructions. Oh, I had a question and our host replied.
[33:55]
A
Super quick Premier move.
[33:57]
B
Wish I had a premier group chat. They won't even write me back. Book a top rated stay with a Premier host if you know giverboard.

Summary7 min read

Dateline NBC: Talking Dateline – "Suspicion in Silver City"

Released: August 12, 2026
Host: Blaine Alexander
Guests: Keith Morrison (Dateline Correspondent) & Cassandra Marshall (Producer)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Blaine Alexander sits down with Dateline’s Keith Morrison and producer Cassandra Marshall to discuss the episode “Suspicion in Silver City”. The conversation delves deeply into the murder of 23-year-old nurse and mother of two, Cassie Farrington. The discussion not only tracks the complexities of the investigation and eventual resolution but also gives poignant insight into the challenges families face in seeking justice, the pervasiveness of domestic violence, and the unique dynamics in small-town America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Reunion

[01:01] Blaine reunites with Keith and Cassandra, expressing excitement for their collaborative discussion.
- Notable personal aside: "I learned that you and I are almost birthday twins." – Blaine to Keith ([02:07])

Case Overview: The Murder of Cassie Farrington

[03:16] Keith summarizes the case:
- Cassie Farrington, a young mother and nurse, was found dead in her bathtub. Her relationship with her husband, a local police officer, was troubled.
- Key initial investigative failures: lack of basic evidence collection, failure to properly secure the scene, and not immediately investigating the husband.
- "It's one of those classic cases where... one of the first things they might do is have a good look around... but it finally took a new investigator to re-look at the evidence." – Keith Morrison ([03:16])

The Role of Family Advocacy

[02:35] Importance of family persistence in pushing for justice.
- Keith: “Families can make a huge difference just calling and calling and calling and keeping up the pressure. And if they think that something has gone wrong, say so.”

The Two Investigations

[04:13] Contrast between the initial and later investigation.
- The first investigator’s approach labeled as “just lazy.” Basic police work was not done ([04:45]).
- Cassandra: “It really was a case of sort of two investigations... interesting to see how you could sort of look at the same set of evidence, same crime scene, and come up with apparently two completely different viewpoints.”

The Setting: Silver City as a Character

[05:00] Silver City is described as integral to the story—
- Blaine: “I loved the way that you all chose to start this story by giving us just a description of Silver City, almost as though it was another character in this story...”
- Keith reflects on the small-town dynamic, noting its isolation and how it shapes the way rumors and personal relationships affect investigations ([06:31]).

Experiencing the Crime Scene

[06:39] The impact of walking through the actual scene:
- "It really got to feel what must have happened or what was where yeah, that's a tremendously valuable thing if you're reporting a story..." – Keith ([07:12])
- Cassandra and Blaine discuss how experiencing the geography adds depth and understanding for journalists.

Failed Initial Investigation

[08:08] The initial investigator, Sanchez, quickly suggesting suicide deeply insulted the family.
- The scene was released to the family almost immediately, allowing them inside before proper evidence collection.
- Cassandra: “The police get there, then the families are notified... law enforcement quickly sort of wraps up and sort of says, you can go inside. Which they couldn't believe it.”
- The family collected crucial evidence themselves, including taking photographs and draining the tub ([11:16]).
- Keith: "If [the family] haven't gone in there and collected that material... it just never would have been collected..." ([12:11])

Risks of Civilian-Collected Evidence

[12:11] Keith and Blaine discuss the legal risks of families collecting evidence:
- "They are taking steps that... needed to be taken if investigators weren't taking this seriously enough... but... does this potentially jeopardize a case?" – Blaine

Suspect Focus: Billy Lee

[13:01] Billy Lee, another nurse and friend of Cassie, emerges as an early suspect.
- Blaine: “Who just up and goes to Alaska, leaves the wife behind, just goes.”
- His open demeanor surprises the team; he never considered himself a suspect ([13:42]).
- Cassandra: “He wanted to clear up what the cops didn't... he was more than happy to do it like he's like, I have nothing to hide. I never did.”

Cassie’s Life and Character

[17:05] Discussion shifts to Cassie herself:
- She was athletic, ambitious, and well-loved. "She could have been a daughter or somebody... you felt you knew her somehow." – Keith ([17:57])
- Family and friends described her as focused, with dreams of being a doctor, derailed by early pregnancy and a troubled marriage.

Domestic Violence Themes

[20:46] Cassie’s foreboding about her own safety:
- “It's always so tragic... when there's somebody who has almost predicted that something could happen to them or warned...” – Blaine
[21:16] Keith reflects on the difficulty of intervening in abusive relationships: “Domestice violence is such an endemic and such a horrible crime and it happens so frequently...”
Cassie never reported abuse because of her husband's law enforcement ties, but confided in friends and family – hearsay testimony became crucial.

Trial, Testimony, and Community Responsibility

[23:00] Former judge Timothy Aldridge urges communal responsibility:
- “We have to identify domestic violence. We can't pretend that it doesn't exist. I think we have to understand that we are all responsible for each other within our communities...” – Judge Aldridge ([23:11])
[24:11] Keith: “It's hard to find a way out because they're often being gaslit the whole time... in the repeated experience... that is often when the violence occurs because the dominating party does not want the person... to leave...”

Custody After the Verdict

[25:18] The children were left in the care of the paternal grandparents; Cassie’s family lost visitation due to court rules and an accidental violation thereof.
Cassandra: “The court system went with the least traumatizing outcome for the kids...that was the one thing. And then... Cassie's mother... broke one of those rules, and it sort of like ruined their chances...”

Awareness and Resources

[26:45] Blaine shares the National Domestic Violence Hotline for listeners and the importance of seeking resources.

Q&A: Listener Questions

[29:10] Listeners ask about the struggle and the significance of running water:
- Cassandra explains that prosecutors theorized the struggle took place in a second bathroom, supported by physical evidence; running water likely an attempt to destroy evidence.
[30:29] Cameo (celebrity video messaging) question:
- Keith: “It's something that we're really not able to do, certainly not for money when we work for Dateline, it doesn't seem right somehow.” ([31:50])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[03:16] Keith Morrison:
“This is a story of a young woman just starting out in Life... She had been married to a local police officer. The relations between the two were not that great... But it finally took a new investigator to re look at the evidence...”
[04:45] Blaine Alexander:
“[W]as this a cover up?... he was just lazy. And it was so unbelievable to hear... the most basic of police investigative work that just hadn't been done.”
[11:16] Cassandra Marshall:
“[T]he bathtub was still full of water... There was a second bathroom where there was a broken towel rack... her glasses and a hair scrunchie... things... should have been collected, you know, as evidence...”
[13:01] Blaine Alexander:
“Billy Lee was an interesting character... who just up and goes to Alaska, leaves the wife behind, just goes...”
[17:57] Keith Morrison:
“[B]y the time I left there... I just felt like... She could have been a daughter... you felt you knew her somehow.”
[23:11] Judge Timothy Aldridge:
“We have to identify domestic violence. We can't pretend that it doesn't exist... it's our responsibility to arrest that individual. That's just part of the gig.”
[31:50] Keith Morrison on Cameo:
“It's something that we're really not able to do, certainly not for money when we work for Dateline, it doesn't seem right somehow.”

Important Timestamps

[03:16] — Keith gives a full case overview.
[08:08] — In-depth on the failed initial investigation.
[13:01] — Billy Lee's role as a suspect discussed.
[17:05] — Reflections on Cassie’s life and character.
[20:46] — On abuse victims foreshadowing their fate.
[23:11] — Judge Aldridge on communal responsibility.
[25:18] — Custody aftermath and court decisions.
[26:45] — Domestic violence support resources.
[29:10] — Listener Q&A about crime scene evidence.

Summary & Takeaways

This episode of “Talking Dateline” offers an in-depth, empathetic look at the investigation, obstacles, and heartbreak of Cassie Farrington’s murder in Silver City. The hosts and guests discuss the power of family advocacy, investigative failures, and the importance of community in combating domestic violence. With vivid context about the town, the challenges of evidence collection, and personal stories from those closest to Cassie, the episode urges listeners to recognize the signs of abuse, stand up for victims, and fight for justice even when the system stumbles.

If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, call 1-800-799-SAFE or visit thehotline.org.

Loading summary

Transcript105 lines

[00:00]
A
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[01:02]
B
Hi, everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander and today we are talking Dateline. And I am so fortunate today because I'm joined by not one, but two stellar journalists to talk about this episode. So I'm glad to have my dear friend Keith Morrison joined by super producer Cassandra Marshall. Hi, guys.
[01:19]
C
Hello, Blaine. Good to see you.
[01:20]
A
Hi, guys. Hi, Cassandra.
[01:22]
B
Small family reunion here on Talking Dateline.
[01:24]
C
We love it.
[01:25]
B
So this episode is called Suspicious in Silver City and it's about the murder of 23 year old nurse and mother of two, Cassie Farrington. And of course, if you haven't seen that episode yet, you can stream it now on Peacock or listen wherever you get your podcasts, then come right back here and listen to this episode. And later on we'll play an extra clip from a former judge who has been following this case very closely. And as always, we will end by answering some of your questions from social media. All right, friends, let's talk Dateline.
[01:52]
C
Sounds good.
[01:53]
A
All right.
[01:53]
B
So, Keith, I have to say this is my first time actually seeing you in a while. It's so good to see you.
[01:58]
A
It has been a while, yes.
[02:00]
B
But I have to say there's an important piece of business to attend to. I learned that you and I are almost birthday twins.
[02:06]
A
What are you talking about?
[02:07]
B
Yeah, when's your birthday? You are a cancer king and I'm a cancer queen. I'm July 9th and Keith, you're the sixth. Right.
[02:14]
A
I know. I'm the second, actually. So you're one week younger than I am. Imagine that.
[02:19]
B
Exactly it. Exactly. Well, this was a fantastic episode for me as you started getting into the investigation. Had it not been for the determination the Dogged determination of this family. We may not be sitting here talking about this case.
[02:36]
A
Sure. It's a question many families face and we run into it all the time. How hard should a family push to get the legal system to actually do something? In many cases, families don't feel they have the right to do that or they just assume that, you know, they police departments are going to do their level best to, you know, find justice for their loved one. But families can make a huge difference just calling and calling and calling and keeping up the pressure. And if they think that something has gone wrong, say so.
[03:07]
B
Well, I want to talk a little bit about how you all discovered the story, how you dove into the story. But Keith, if you could just give me a summary of a quick overview of this case.
[03:16]
A
Well, this is a story of a young woman just starting out in Life. She had two children already at the age of 23 and had was now, you know, starting a career at the same time. So she was a very busy woman. She had been married to a local police officer. The relations between the two were not that great. And so it's one of those classic cases where you would expect when they discover her body in a bathtub and the water flowing over the bathtub to the floor, that of the home that she lived in, that, you know, one of the first things they might do is have a good look around and see if there was a struggle and if there was to take some whatever evidence they could, but also immediately go and speak to the husband because, you know, quite often it is the husband in a case like this. But it finally took a new investigator to re look at the evidence and by then a lot of it was gone, of course, but to dredge up what he could to get the case filed.
[04:14]
B
I think in so many ways this story could almost be described as the tale of two investigators because you have, you know, the person who started this and I love. There was one point at which you kind of asked like, what was it? Why, you know, was this a cover up? And, you know, he said, well, no, he was just lazy. And it was so unbelievable to hear because the things that, you know, you were talking about were kind of the most basic of police investigative work that just hadn't been done.
[04:45]
C
Right. Police 101. Basically, yeah. It really was a case of sort of two investigations, you know, so it was interesting to see how you could sort of look at the same set of evidence, same crime scene, and come up with apparently two completely different viewpoints on it.
[05:01]
B
I loved the Way that you all chose to start this story by giving us just a description of Silver City, almost as though it was another character in this story, because immediately got a sense of where this place is, what it feels like. And so I said, you know, if this is what comes through on the screen, it must be exponentially cooler in person to actually go there and visit.
[05:20]
C
And then it's a destination, like, for people who are going to New Mexico. Like, it is a place to sort of visit. So I can see why. I really enjoyed it.
[05:28]
A
It really is. And walking into a classic American west coffee shop one morning and just sitting there thinking, man, oh man, people would pay a lot of money to have a holiday like this in a place like this. It's kind of like one of those experiences that you probably don't appreciate unless you never get to be in such a place. And Silver City is. Cool down.
[05:50]
B
Quick geography question. How close is it to Albuquerque or to Santa Fe?
[05:56]
C
I'm trying to remember. I do recall it was a bit of a pain for us to get to, wasn't it, Kirk? And I think actually it was Arizona. That was the closest airport, and I think it was like a four hour drive from Arizona.
[06:06]
A
That's right, yeah.
[06:07]
B
But I think that, you know, understanding almost immediately what Silver City was, what it felt like, really helped make this story stronger. Because once we got into the discussion of this investigation and, you know, officers knowing each other and even just kind of this notion of rumors flying, this isn't something that would happen. I mean, had the same type of crime happened in la, for example, you wouldn't have the same dynamics, typically, as you saw here.
[06:32]
A
That's probably true. I mean, it was a small town writ large, if I can put it that way, simply because it was so isolated.
[06:39]
B
Keith, I think that one of the, I think most powerful moments of the story was watching you actually be able to walk through the house where all of this happened. Because this was such a visual crime scene, it would have been difficult if somebody was just sitting in a chair, right? Telling you, like, oh, I looked through the back door and I saw water gushing. And then there was a tub. Like, you couldn't have just grasped how deep that tub was or just what the things look like without being able to go through the house. And so I really think that helped, you know, illustrate the crime scene in a way that we wouldn't have been able to visualize.
[07:13]
A
It was a very, very strange thing to be there. It really got to feel what must have happened or what was where yeah, that's a tremendously valuable thing if you're reporting a story, too. You really get a much more of a sense of things.
[07:30]
B
Exactly. And it's not something that we get to do often. I remember my first time walking through a crime scene since I've been on Dateline. It was a house that. It was a young woman who was killed, and then fire was set to cover things up, and the house had been restored and people were living there, and they kindly left, took their young child out and let us walk through. But to be able to see the geography and just see the room, see where the fire started, all of that, it brings the whole thing to life, especially for us, as, you know, reporters, producers, journalists. You're so curious about these stories because we spend so much time, like you said, getting to know the family, getting to know this person, and then to see where it happens just deepens it all, I think.
[08:08]
A
Yeah, that's right.
[08:09]
B
Let's talk about this investigation because, I mean, we kind of titled it subtitled at the beginning of this conversation, the Tale of Two Investigators. But let's talk about investigation number one and Sanchez, who took this first. So I was really struck by the fact that almost immediately as you were talking to the family, they said the question or the thoughts or suggestion of suicide came into play almost immediately. And it seemed like that was something that, even as they sat down and talked to you, Keith, was something that
[08:37]
A
still very much upset them, as you can totally understand. But, yes, I think that there's a. There's no sort of more. There may be no darker place than the life of a family who has lost somebody at that stage of life, who's lost a child, and, and when the cause of the death has been inadequately investigated, in their opinion, and they're in a pretty good opinion about it, and, and it's almost like dirt being thrown in somebody's face to suggest that they would have taken their own life. It made. It not only made no sense, it was deeply insulting, I think, to the family as it would be.
[09:25]
C
And I think also the family was also insulted because, I mean, the question of suicide came up that day at the crime scene. It wasn't like there had been time to go through the evidence or assess the scene. It just seemed a little too immediate to them and I think to viewers as well. So I think that was the other thing. I mean, now, of course, that that investigator claims that. That he never. That he never suggested it was suicide. He. He's. He claims in our. In his interview that he just threw it out as something he wanted to
[09:58]
A
say if it was a possibility. Yeah, yeah.
[10:02]
B
Okay. But that was surprise number one. Surprise number one. And then surprise number two was how quickly the house was released.
[10:08]
C
Yeah, that was shocking, I think, to everybody, including us.
[10:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite right. The family got involved at that stage in having a good look around themselves.
[10:17]
C
Right, right. So, you know, the families. So the police get there, then the families are notified. So when they get there, the law enforcement quickly sort of wraps up and sort of says, you can go inside. Which they couldn't believe it. So they went in themselves and noticed that there was a lot of stuff still there. Like, you know, the bathtub was still full of water. They hadn't even drained it. There was a second bathroom where there was a broken towel rack on the floor, as well as Cassie's glasses and a hair scrunchie. And it just seemed like things to them, and I think things to our viewers seemed like should have been collected, you know, as evidence, as further investigation. So, yes, Keith, they were there. They drained the bathtub. They noticed the scour marks on the bathtub there. They took photos and notified the cops. All things that you would think a CSI unit would do.
[11:17]
A
Sure. Which was tremendously important in the long run.
[11:20]
B
This story made me think of a story that I did in Chattanooga, Tennessee, the pin in apartment 210, where a family knew that their daughter was missing. They saw the PIN of her last location and actually took a credit card, jimmied, opened the lock, went inside and started bagging evidence on their own. I mean, basically went into this residence. And then, of course, there was the question of, can this evidence be allowed in court because of the way that it was obtained, because of the, you know, questions about chain of custody that going into the apartment that wasn't. There's all of these things. So you can look at it as a question of, yes, they are taking steps that, you know, many would argue needed to be taken if investigators weren't taking this seriously enough. But then there's the other, you know, possible risk of does this potentially jeopardize a case? Could this stand up in court? What does that look like?
[12:12]
A
Yeah, sure. And that was. That was a problem. And that. And that indeed was brought up by the defense attorney repeatedly in the trial that this was. You can't use this evidence because there was no chain of custody because the police didn't collect it. It was somebody on the outside and they had a vested interest. So if there was a chance for Farrington, the Husband to be found not guilty. It. That would have been certainly one of the prime causes, and there was concern about that. However, if they hadn't done it, if they haven't gone in there and collected that material, as Cassie said, it. It just never would have been collected by anybody. And. And that evidence wouldn't have been available. And I don't know whether they could have gotten a guilty verdict without it.
[12:54]
B
I think a lot of families look at this and say, it's a risk worth taking. Right. Because otherwise it's not going to be gotten at all, to your point. So.
[13:01]
A
Right.
[13:01]
B
They're thinking, let's just do it. Let's talk about Billy Lee. Billy Lee was an interesting character in all of this. He certainly seemed suspicious from the very moment that you introduced him, because as you said in the story, who just up and goes to Alaska, leaves the wife behind, just goes.
[13:20]
A
And at just the right moment to make himself look pretty guilty.
[13:24]
B
Yes, exactly. But I love that you actually got him down, and when you sat down with him, he just seemed like a. Just a completely open book. Just like, yeah, I got a job offer. I took it. That seems to make sense to me. I mean, just his demeanor to you was hilarious to me.
[13:42]
A
It was very Silver City, in my opinion.
[13:47]
C
Good way of putting it. Yes.
[13:48]
B
Cassandra, I'm curious. What was it like booking him as an interview? Because, like I said, he didn't seem hesitant.
[13:54]
C
Right. The thing I loved about Billy, or found most interesting, was that he never believed that he was a suspect or a person of interest. So he truly was sort of, like, shocked that such a big deal was being made out of him, you know, that the defense sort of pointed to him as this alternate suspect. So it was interesting to approach him after he testified to be like, you know, your name has kind of been dragged through the mud here. We'd really like to talk to you, like, get your side of the story. And, you know, he really didn't hesitate at all. Like, he wanted to sort of get it across that he really, truly cared about Cassie. You know, that they had this friendship and a mentoring relationship. You know, they both were nurses, they both worked at the same place, and he wanted to clear up what the cops didn't, you know, the questions that they did not ask in his. His interview or his polygraph test, which is, why did you go to Alaska? You know, why did you pull up the carpet? And, you know, so quickly after this happened. So this was an opportunity for him to make it very clear, and he was more than happy to do it like he's like, I have nothing to hide. I never did. And so what you see is what you get. Ask what you want.
[15:08]
A
Billy was the character who would have been the initial suspect in a, in a crime novel. Right. Billy is just so obvious.
[15:16]
C
Yes.
[15:16]
A
That he would have, you know, somebody would have been pursuing him and pursuing him until he realized you'd have to clear him and then go on to the next one.
[15:25]
B
Exactly.
[15:26]
C
And Billy would say, and did say, you know, basically he was suspicious because of law enforcement's lack of follow through. Like he was available. They never asked him to come back to do an interview. They never called him and asked what his alibi was or why he went there at the time that he left. So they could have known, in his opinion, they could have known all that information much sooner than
[15:50]
B
absolutely. When we come back, we'll play an extra clip from a former judge who has been following this case very closely and what he believes are some takeaways from this case.
[16:05]
A
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[16:35]
C
This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app. The sooner you start investing, the more potential you have to build your money, even for beginners. Sofi makes it simple with an easy to use app to get you going. SoFi is offering up to $1,000 in stock. When you open up and fund a Sofi self directed brokerage account, terms apply. Learn more@sofi.com SXM Brokerage offered through Sofi Securities LLC. Member FINRA, SIPC.
[17:05]
B
The deadlines, the pressure, the tension. You may just brush it off as stress.
[17:10]
C
But is your hair.
[17:11]
B
I gotta tell you, it's eating us alive, weakening our very roots, breaking us apart. And the more you stress, the more we slip away. Now please take a deep breath. There's something you can do. Pantene abundant and strong system. Strengthens your hair against stress, reducing hair loss by 85%. Only the strongest will survive this shedding pantene abundant and strong. Let's talk about Cassie. I have to say that I was drawn in by her from the very beginning. I mean, this stunningly successful young lady in high school, lettered in five sports, by the way.
[17:51]
A
Yeah, that's hard.
[17:52]
B
I remember I had a hard time lettering in one. That's. That's a. That's a stunning accomplishment.
[17:57]
A
And this was one of those stories where by the time I left there, and I know Cassandra probably had much deeper connection spending more time there, but I just felt like I. She. She could have been a daughter or somebody. You just could have been somebody who was who you knew. You felt you knew her somehow. And I think that made telling the story that much more important to us.
[18:24]
C
And her family was just so good at describing her. Like, you know, you could tell. You could feel the love, you know, how close she was to her siblings and to her mother, the apple of her, you know, her father's eyes. And, you know, everybody talked about her ambition. This was a kid that was going places. You know, she had dreams and she was focused, you know, and, you know, she wanted to be a doctor. So once you heard all those stories about her ambition and her accomplishments, then you hear, you know, that, you know, that was all cut short because of her becoming pregnant.
[18:55]
A
And it also is, in some ways, people relate more to the story because it's happened to so many young women who had ambitions, who wanted to be, you know, to be a professionalism, and then got stuck in a marriage where the pregnancy occurred, and then things happened and, you know, they had to kind of regroup. And she was. In that process. She was smart enough, she was ambitious enough, and determined enough. She would have made it even with the two kids and on her own, but events intervened. Yeah.
[19:27]
B
And I think what's stunning, too, is that she. Not only that she got pregnant, of course, that's certainly a speed bump in this. In her road of life, but she got pregnant by this terrible person. I mean, you know, once we kind of come through, see what the marriage looked like, see how it dissolved, see the things that he did to the kids. It's just. It really is a true testament of how such a life can be derailed by coming into contact or intersecting with just the wrong person.
[19:56]
C
Right, right. Even when you have all the support system in the world. You know, she had two loving parents. She had a great family. She was focused on school. And still, somehow she got derailed by this guy that was a little older. And, you know, things Just happened.
[20:10]
B
One of the, I think some of the saddest stories, and so many of these are sad, of course, but it's always so tragic to hear when there's somebody who has almost predicted that something could happen to them or warned if something happens to me, it was this person, or I think this person may kill me or harm me. And that's exactly what happened to Cassie. And it's got to be so difficult for those she leaves behind to think back and say, oh gosh, I remember when she said that. Or I'm sure the what ifs come very quickly in those situations.
[20:46]
A
Oh, sure, for sure. And you know that, you know, families of people who get into abusive relationships usually see them before the person involved in the relationship does.
[20:59]
C
Keith, you had a really sort of touching moment with Cassie's mom, like when she was talking about some of the moments that she'd witnessed of sort of emotional, emotional and even physical abuse. Do you remember the chokehold? Kind of, yes. So her family had witnessed it.
[21:17]
A
I think about that a lot. And domestic violence is such an endemic and such a horrible crime and it happens so frequently and so often. You'll see situations in our stories but also in real life where a young woman gets involved with somebody she thinks is really a wonderful person and so, you know, mature and prepared to look after her or help her with her ambitions or, or whatever. The often somebody outside the relationship can see more easily than she can that she's heading down a bad way and. But it doesn't matter how often you tell that person, it's it they have to find out for themselves. And unfortunately by that it's often too late. It's a terrible scourge in this country and this was at the heart of this case.
[22:08]
B
Now it's important to note Brad was never charged domestic violence. But during his trial, a number of co workers, friends and family members of Cassie's gave testimonies about Brad's acts of domestic violence toward her as she described them to them.
[22:21]
C
So the good thing about Cassie, even though she didn't feel comfortable going to law enforcement to report the domestic abuse because her soon to be ex husband was former law enforcement, she didn't think it would make a difference that they would protect their own. She did talk a lot about it to her friends, family and coworkers. So there were 12 people that were ready to testify about the abuse and seven were allowed to testify. Normally we all know hearsay, we call that hearsay testimony that's not allowed. But they made an exception in this case. And that made all the difference in the world in this trial because there was no physical evidence. It was really that hearsay testimony that really established the pattern.
[23:00]
B
So, Keith, speaking of the trial, let's dive a little bit deeper into that. You spoke with a man named Timothy Aldridge. He is a former judge, somebody who's very knowledgeable about this case. Let's listen to some of that interview.
[23:11]
A
Is there a lesson in this guilty verdict that people should pay attention to? Oh, I think there's a great lesson in this. You know, guilty verdict is what it is. One of the lessons is we have to identify domestic violence. We can't pretend that it doesn't exist. I think we have to understand that we are all responsible for each other within our communities, that it isn't just, you know, the sheriff's department's job to do this.
[23:35]
B
It's.
[23:35]
A
It's our neighbor's job, it's our friend's job, and it's all of us to intercede on each other. It's our responsibility if it's one of our partners as a law enforcement agent. Yes, it's our responsibility to arrest that individual. That's just part of the gig.
[23:51]
B
You know, listening to him say that. I mean, that is a really important piece of this conversation, of it is a communal responsibility really to do something. I think the question that so many people have is what in the world do you do? Especially if maybe somebody is hesitant to accept it, to recognize it, to want to or feel like they can walk away.
[24:12]
A
I think that decision for. Especially for a vulnerable person, a vulnerable young woman who doesn't. It's hard to find a way out because they're often being gaslit the whole time anyway. And they feel as if they're crazy if they think that they should be leaving this relationship. They're crazy if they think their abuser is actually abusing and they don't quite know what to do. And even when a decision is finally made, I've got to get out of here. The question of how you get out of there is tremendously important. And so frequently you'll see that a vulnerable person will make a decision that they want to talk it over with the person they're about to leave. And that in. In the. In the repeated experience of doing Dateline episodes on cases like this, that is often when the violence occurs because the dominating party does not want the person who's being dominated to leave the relationship and. And. And can become more violent as a result.
[25:19]
B
I. I want to ask to you know, he was found guilty of murder, sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole until at least 30 years served. His parents got custody of these two children. And I was very surprised by that. I wonder if you could shed some light on that or. I mean, I found myself saying, how did that happen?
[25:39]
C
Brad Farrington was not arrested for a year and a half. So he has custody. He and his family have custody of the kids until he went to trial. Then, according to Cassidy's family, they did fight for grandparent rights and visitation rights, and they ultimately did not get them for a couple of reasons. One, this is all according to Cassie's family. The court system went with the least traumatizing outcome for the kids. You know, they'd already lost their mother to this violent death. Their father was going to prison. They were with the grandparents and the extended family that they knew they didn't want to add onto that by ripping them away from that family, that was the one thing. And then, unfortunately, there were some rules that the court had made about visitations, and in a situation that Cassie's mother never meant, she sort of broke one of those rules, and it sort of like ruined their chances of sort of getting any kind of immediate visitation rights. So.
[26:45]
B
Well, before we wrap up this piece, I mean, we have talked a great deal about domestic violence, and I certainly want to make sure that we put this out there for anybody who's listening. If you or somebody that you know, somebody that you care about is experiencing relationship abuse or domestic violence, there are places to go for advice and for resources. You can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 1-800-799-SAFE or 1-800-799-7233. Or you can text the word start that's s t a r t to the number eight eight. Or you can always go to the hotline.org and when we come back, we are going to answer some of your questions from social media.
[27:33]
A
The snack wrap plus Caesar sauce equals extra crispy chicken Caesary greatness. Sounds delicious. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.
[27:47]
B
New Lancome Absolu longevity MD. Backed by 20 years of research and five patents, the formulas combine Mitopure, the number one selling longevity supplement, with Lancome's exclusive skincare compounds. It's designed and clinically measured to work on two levels. The visible signs of aging, like elasticity and the look of fine lines and the invisible ones, like the rate of surface cell renewal happening within the skin. Start your visible biological age reversal@lancome.com longevitymdash hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you
[28:21]
A
buy a house, but you make it a home.
[28:22]
B
For decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for their projects that matter. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project@angie.com Lots of comments, lots of questions about this episode. I'm going to actually go with a pair of questions. Do things a little differently because these two questions go hand in hand. So this question, first is the first one is from Denise Enicem Lombardo, who asks, I was wondering if the fight started there and she got away for a moment. So sad. Second question from Ndrea Lother, who writes great show. Why was the water running in the other bathroom? And so my question to you guys is, did prosecutors ever describe how they believe that struggle between Cassie and Brad actually played out?
[29:11]
C
My recollection is that the theory that the prosecutors had was that Brad Farrington was waiting in that. So Cassie had worked the overnight shift. She was a nurse, and so she came back early morning. Their theory is that he was already waiting inside and that a struggle and her stuff was just thrown under bed like we all do. We get home, we throw our stuff down. And then their theory is that the struggle happened in the second bathroom, not where she was found. That's where the broken towel rack was. That's where the hairbrush, the glasses, all that stuff was found on the floor. So they feel that the struggle happened there. Maybe he surprised her there, the struggle happened there, he killed her there, and then he transported her body into the tub where she was found. And the theory is the running water in both was to destroy evidence. So her body's in that submerged water for all that time because it was quite a while before she was discovered that day. And then they're not exactly sure why, because the second bathroom, the stopper in the bathtub, was not used. So the water was running, but it wasn't filled. But they feel like it might have been running, too. Maybe he washed himself, maybe he rinsed things off. But that's the theory.
[30:29]
B
And then finally, we have an audio question from Andy from San Diego. Let's hear what Andy has to say.
[30:36]
C
Hi, it's Andy from San Diego. And my question is, I love giving cameos to people as gifts for their favorite celebrities. And the response I always get is, who would you want to have on cameo? And my answer is Josh Mankiewicz or Keith Morrison. So my question is, would you be open to being on Cameo for those of us fans to get something special?
[31:07]
B
Do you guys know what Cameo is? First to kind of set the scene. Cameo is a thing where you can, anybody famous can go on. And basically, if I were a Keith fan, I could go on, pay x amount of dollars, 200 and just say, hey, I want you to give a birthday message to my 5 year old who really loves you. And these people do it. We actually used it for a saxophonist, Mindy, a bear who my young daughter loves. So we got a greeting from her. But it's people who are famous that can just go on, read whatever recorded thing or do a 30 second video and get paid for it, basically. So that's what she's asking, if you or Josh would ever consider going on Cameo to do whatever the good people want to pay you to do.
[31:51]
A
You know, as much as I would love to say happy birthday to anybody who would like that to happen, you're so proud of money or no money, it doesn't really matter to me. It's something that we're really not able to do, certainly not for money when we work for Dateline, it doesn't seem right somehow.
[32:06]
B
But as much as I'm sure you would love to wish happy birthday to truly anybody and everybody, money or no money, like you said. Right, sure.
[32:15]
A
If, if, if you wish happy birthday to one person on a program like this and you have to wish happy birthday to a whole bunch more people and we don't have the time, unfortunately.
[32:25]
B
But I know your heart would love to do it if you could.
[32:27]
A
Absolutely. So consider it done.
[32:30]
B
Well, guys, this was a fantastic conversation as always. Keith, good to see you. Cassandra, this was just a, this was a fantastic episode and you both did it remarkably well as always. So thank you for talking Dateline with me.
[32:43]
C
Thanks for having me.
[32:43]
A
Thank you.
[32:44]
B
And that's it for talking Dateline this week. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you have any questions about any of our stories, send us a voice memo or a video on social media Dateline NBC. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252. A real live phone number or your chance to be featured right here. You can also watch the video version of Talking Dateline now on PeaceRock or on YouTube and be sure to subscribe to the NBC News app so that you never miss an episode. Plus, don't miss an all new season of the Webby award winning podcast, Dateline Missing in America. Josh will be bringing you six six missing persons cases with powerful conversations with loved ones who refuse to give up and the investigators who never stop trying to find answers. You can listen to the first three episodes right now wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to Dateline Premium to listen ad free. And of course, we will always see you on Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Premier Hosts on VRBO deliver quality vacation rental stays with fast responses and clear instructions. Oh, I had a question and our host replied.
[33:55]
A
Super quick Premier move.
[33:57]
B
Wish I had a premier group chat. They won't even write me back. Book a top rated stay with a Premier host if you know giverboard.