Talking Dateline: Take Two

Summary

Dateline NBC: Talking Dateline – "Take Two"

Episode Date: March 18, 2026
Hosts: Andrea Canning & Blaine Alexander

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Talking Dateline" centers on Andrea Canning’s recent "Take Two" investigation, a true-crime Dateline installment revolving around a shocking murder-for-hire plot that never resulted in a death, but did involve two separate attempts by Ira Bernstein, a podiatrist, to have his wife, Susan Bernstein, killed. Featuring undercover stings, hidden cameras, and deeply troubling family dynamics, the case plays more like a suspense thriller than real life—with the added twist that both murder plots were foiled, thanks in large part to would-be "hitmen" who chose to alert authorities instead.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Case Summary and Unusual Features

(02:12–03:13)

• Core Story: Susan and Ira Bernstein’s troubled marriage led Ira—after starting an affair with the charismatic Kelly Vribalook—to plot Susan’s murder not once, but twice.
• First Plot: The conspirators approached Markenzi, who unexpectedly acted as a whistleblower by tipping off police and participating in the undercover operation that dismantled the plan.
• Second Plot: After Ira’s release from prison, he again conspired (this time with a landscaper) to have Susan killed, only to be foiled once more.
• Uniqueness: "Such a different type of Dateline episode because there is not actually a death...thanks to Markenzi the first time around." (Blaine Alexander, 03:25)

The Heroes: Markenzi and the Landscaper

(03:45–05:16, 21:58–22:36)

• Markenzi’s Motivation: Markenzi’s decisive actions and willingness to work undercover put his own safety at risk but ultimately saved Susan’s life.
• Personal Sacrifice: “We're talking about a dad of kids. Like, that's a big chunk of time to kind of devote to..." (Blaine, 04:55)
• Susan’s Gratitude: She called both Markenzi and the landscaper her "angels" for intervening.

The Stings and Undercover Work

(05:16–06:09, 15:55–17:29)

• Building the Case: Multiple recorded meetups with wired cars, risky in-person exchanges.
• Infamous Moment: Ira nearly discovers a hidden camera, but Markenzi quickly invents a cover story: "Oh, it's for the kids games or whatever. And Ira totally buys it." (Andrea, 05:16)
• Journalistic Parallels: Andrea recalls her own heartbeat-raising undercover Dateline experience in an earlier adoption scam investigation—highlighting the tension and skill required in sting operations.

Psychological and Emotional Fallout

(06:31–09:27, 13:33–14:44, 21:33–21:41)

• Susan’s Ordeal: Living with the knowledge her husband tried to have her killed twice left Susan traumatized and fearful.
• Andrea’s Reflection: "Imagine being Susan...she had a target on her back twice.” (Andrea, 06:31)
• Aftermath: The profound impact on Susan and her children, compounded by public scrutiny and ongoing threats.

Ira Bernstein’s Mindset & Legal Maneuvering

(09:27–11:46, 13:33–14:44)

• Victim Mentality: Ira consistently frames himself as a victim, blaming those around him—including his victims and even law enforcement/journalists.
  • "He is always the victim, right? He blames other people for everything..." (Andrea, 09:36)
• Courtroom Encounter: Andrea describes a surreal moment when she found herself sitting right next to Ira at a sentencing hearing.

The Absurdity and Repetition

(14:44–16:02, 23:03–25:11)

• Recidivism: Despite being caught and imprisoned for attempted murder, Ira quickly returned to plotting again after his release — "The judge called it mind boggling." (Andrea, 14:44)
• Absurd Ideas: A failed scheme discussed planting drugs in Susan’s car to have her arrested, a plan so ridiculous the landscaper shut it down—"Who's going to think that a woman who goes to book club...is carrying a kilo of drugs in her car? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard." (Detective Braddock, 24:05)

The Accomplice: Kelly Vribalook

(19:51–20:58)

• Complex Character: Kelly, a former mortician turned shoe salesperson, remained devoted to Ira and was the one doing the “dirty work,” though she ultimately served a longer initial jail stint than he did.
• “It was almost like it wasn’t that bad...her loyalty to Ira...he bails out in like four days or whatever.” (Andrea, 19:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Opening Shock: “This was wild. This was all over the place. I didn’t know what to expect...this one was insane.”
  — Blaine Alexander (01:43)
• On Markenzi’s Bravery: “He’s really putting himself in danger...you know, now you’re messing around with people capable of murder.”
  — Andrea Canning (05:16)
• Ira’s Mindset: “He is always the victim, right? He blames other people for everything.”
  — Andrea Canning (09:36)
• Absurdity in Plotting: “Let's plant a kilo of drugs in her car.”
  — Detective Peggy Braddock (23:54)
• On Murder for Hire: “The dumbest thing about murder for hire is now you’re involving another person...That’s a lot of trust to place in someone.”
  — Andrea Canning (26:02)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:06–03:13: Case summary — marriage, affair, murder plots, and twists
• 03:25–05:16: Difference from typical Dateline cases; Markenzi’s role
• 05:16–06:09: Undercover work and high-tension moments
• 09:27–11:46: Ira’s responses, courtroom anecdotes, victim mentality
• 14:44–16:02: Aftereffects, lessons unlearned, judge’s response
• 19:51–20:58: Kelly Vribalook’s role and character insights
• 21:33–21:41: Focus on Susan’s privacy and emotional toll
• 23:03–25:11: Escalating and absurd plot details (planting drugs)
• 28:11–31:25: Q&A: mortician background, motivations, legal outcomes
• 31:38–31:40: Episode wrap-up and farewell

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Listener Q&A Highlights

(28:11–31:25)

• Kelly’s Mortician Experience: Trained but never actually embalmed due to Jewish customs.
• Ira’s Wealth: Comes from various podiatry centers and real estate investments.
• Victim Compensation: Susan’s civil suit against Ira and his sister is unresolved.
• Markenzi’s Compensation: He did not receive payment for his involvement; acted out of goodwill.

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is marked by a mix of disbelief, empathy, and occasional levity at the utter absurdity of Ira’s plots (while always returning to the seriousness of the real-life stakes). Both hosts balance journalistic scrutiny with personal reactions—especially regarding Susan’s prolonged trauma and the inexplicable persistence of Ira’s criminal intent.

Final Reflection:
This case stands as a rare Dateline where the intended murder never happens, the heroes are unlikely, and the central villain—rather than learning a lesson—simply tries again. The hosts’ candid, conversational tone draws out both the emotional resonance and the bizarre, almost cinematic quality of the true story.

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Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

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[Blaine Alexander]

Hi, everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander and today we are talking dateline. I'm here with the one and only Andrea Canning. Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

Good to see you. We are here to talk about your episode, take two. This case truly has just about everything. An undercover sting, hidden cameras, a murder for hire plot, and a twist that investigators say that they almost never see. So if you haven't listened to this episode yet, it's the one right below this one. Or you can go watch it on Peacock. So go there, watch or listen, and then come right back here. And when you come back, we'll play a moment from Andrea's interview with detectives that didn't make it into our broadcast. All right, Andrea, let's talk dateline.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's do it.

[Blaine Alexander]

This one was, I mean, I think we say this at every talking Dateline, but this one truly was. This was wild. This was all over the place. I didn't know what to expect. Almost from the very first second the episode started. This one was insane.

[Andrea Canning]

It really was. I mean, yeah, this is like what you, you call like a wild roller coaster, you know, of a case. And it really felt like a movie.

[Blaine Alexander]

So, Andrea, just in case folks haven't seen it or before we get into our discussion, just kind of summarize this for me. Give me a quick version of what happened in this episode.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I mean, this is about a couple, Susan and Ira Bernstein, who had troubles in their marriage for quite a while. They had three kids and Ira claims he's working like crazy to pay the bills cause they have an extravagant lifestyle. They then he is reunited with a patient, Kelly Vribalook. Kelly is eclectic career mortician Former mortician model. Now she's, like, selling shoe orthotics. So she comes to Ira and she says, I want you to help me with this shoe business. They start an affair. Next thing you know, they are plotting to have Susan killed, and they went to the wrong person. They went to Markenzie. Because Markenzi decided, you know what? I'm gonna bring you two down because this is wrong. So Markenzi was responsible, along with the police, for stopping the plot to have Susan killed. Ira and Kelly go off to prison. Ira comes out, and what does he do? He starts talking about killing his wife. Again.

[Blaine Alexander]

Insane.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And also chooses, again, someone who does not want to be a part of this. A landscaper. He's like, no. Thankfully, Ira picks badly for assassins.

[Blaine Alexander]

So let's talk. I mean, let's just break down everything that you just said right there. 1. This is such a different type of Dateline episode because there is not actually a death. Right. Like, we're talking about two murder plots, but they never actually come to fruition, thankfully. And I think a big piece of this is thanks to Mark Kenzie the first time around. Right?

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, yeah.

[Blaine Alexander]

Like, the fact that somebody comes to him and says, hey, do you know how to kill somebody? I mean, some people could have just said, no, I don't know how to do that, and just gone about their business. Right. Not gotten involved with the police to try and bring this person down.

[Andrea Canning]

It would be scary to, you know, if someone's serious about that. Also, Blaine, would you be, like, a little offended if someone thought that either you could kill someone or that you have friends who kill people? Like, I feel like, wait, is there something about me? Like, why are you picking me to. I know. You know, Well, I gave.

[Blaine Alexander]

I thought about that with Markinsey, because. And you asked him. You're like, why? Did you say something maybe that made her think. And he said something like, oh, if you're not happy, like, we can help, or I know someone who can take care of something like that. But it was a rather large leap

[Andrea Canning]

to get to think so. And, you know, I've gotten to know Markenzi a little bit, you know, through this story. Cause now, you know, I re interviewed him, and he's such a nice man. Like, he's really. I just found him to be really sweet. He's a father. You know, he's. For me, anyway. He's not somebody that I would like. First instincts, Peg. To be someone who's gonna find me a hit man. Right?

[Blaine Alexander]

Right. He Seemed I was really just struck by how much time he spent trying to bring this case down. There were so many meetups, he had to have his car wired. And then you said not only did he go and meet up with her repeated times in these parking lots, he had to go meet with investigators like, 45 minutes beforehand. So we're talking about a dad of kids. Like, that's a big chunk of time to kind of devote to.

[Andrea Canning]

It was a lot of work. And not only that, he's really putting himself in danger too, because if these people are willing to have someone killed, you know, now you're messing around with people capable of murder. Right. And then there's that moment that everyone I feel like, talks about with this story. And it's that moment where Ira turns in the car and he sees a camera or something. He's. Was that a camera? And it's like hard pounding, right? Because you're like, oh, my gosh, he's about to figure this out. And Marenzi thinking on his feet is like, oh, it's for the kids games or whatever. And Ira totally buys it.

[Blaine Alexander]

Mark Kenzie was brilliant, by the way. He was the right person for this. I mean, there were multiple times when he really thought on his feet. You know, he did.

[Andrea Canning]

And. And also, like, it shows you, like, Ira really doesn't trust his gut. He sees this thing and he's on the right track, that something's amiss, but he ignores his gut.

[Blaine Alexander]

He's like, oh, well, maybe it's fine, it's fine. You know, I have to say, you. You described this as a movie at the beginning. This is maybe the first one in a while that I can remember that I really felt like I was watching a movie. Like I had that kind of pit in my stomach or like that kind of nervousness or like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen next? Is he gonna get found out?

[Andrea Canning]

And that was just.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, that was present throughout almost the entire thing.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And I love hearing it from your perspective as someone who's seeing it for the first time, you know, because we get so close to our stories and this is. I've done it because we had this major update. So for me, I know everything that's coming. So I love hearing it from you as a first time viewer, to really feel those twists and turns. And I mean, imagine being Susan. We talk about this like, oh, it could be a movie and all these twists and turns, but poor Susan, she had a target on her back twice. And the fear that you would have Looking over your shoulder and going to sleep at night, it's real. You know, a target on her back

[Blaine Alexander]

from her husband, mind you. I mean, that's just. That's the worst feeling. I want to. You brought up a good point. I want to kind of, like, bring in for our viewers who don't necessarily know how we do our stories. I mean, we are always so busy with our stories of our own at many different times that a lot of times, we don't know what each of us has going on. Right. So a lot of times it's a big surprise for us, too. And I have to say that when I was watching just the previews in the very beginning, I knew that it took place over some amount of years because I saw your hair change.

[Andrea Canning]

I watched.

[Blaine Alexander]

I saw the differences in hairstyle.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I. When I had. When I had to watch it again, I was like, oh, is that good? Is that. Is that bad? I'm like, you know, you just kind of have that, like, what was I thinking? I don't know. I mean, it's not the worst, but I think my hair probably looks better now.

[Blaine Alexander]

They were not. They were not bad at all. It's just one of those things that I feel like you and I only have and, like, the guys don't have to deal with when they do stories over the course of however many years,

[Andrea Canning]

I don't think they're fair. Has ever changed, so. Yeah, exactly.

[Blaine Alexander]

No one could tell. No one could tell. But in watching it, that was kind of my first tell of, like, okay, this took place over an amount of time. Can you just talk a little bit, though, about what it's like to follow a story for that long and then have such a major update as you had in this story?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And, Blaine, I've had datelines with multiple pregnancies. That's how many years are passing. Um, we talk about hairstyles, but let's talk about babies, too. It's just interesting how, like, things change. You know what I mean? Like, so many things change. But you're still on the case. And in this case, when our producer, Lynn Keller, told me that Ira was accused of trying to kill Susan again, my jaw dropped to hear something like that. It's like, what the. What are you thinking? And then when I confronted him at court for the sentencing for the second one, he says to me, like, you know, I asked him if he wanted to stop and talk, and he says, why would I talk to you? You screwed me over the first time. Paraphrasing. I can't remember exactly what he said, but, like, really, I screwed you over. How about you screwed yourself over, buddy?

[Blaine Alexander]

I. You can never get inside the minds of folks. But the interview was very fair.

[Andrea Canning]

Like, he gave him a chance to

[Blaine Alexander]

say everything that he needed to say. He got his side out.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, look, you know, we. We are journalists. We. We try to stay neutral and, you know, unbiased. But I can honestly sit here and tell you, Ira considers himself like a victim forever. He is always the victim, right? He blames other people for everything. It's just he. Everybody, even. What, in his sentencing. And by the way, funny story about the sentencing, too. I was sitting there in the courtroom, and I'm kind of on my phone waiting and just looking at my phone, and someone passes me or whatever. And I honestly was really engrossed in something I was reading. And I look up from my phone and I'm in the front row and I look up and Ira's sitting right next to me in the courtroom. What? Yeah, he's right beside me. It was just so weird. And we both looked at each other and he had.

[Blaine Alexander]

Did he say anything?

[Andrea Canning]

No, but he had already made that comment, like, outside going in, you know, and something else as. As he was. Actually, we were waiting for him, obviously, at the courthouse. Right. We knew his sentencing was at 2:00'. Clock. And I. I see these two men walking, and I'm. I'm like, pretty far away. But I was like, that. That's not Ira. Like, those are like two attorneys or something. Like, there's no way that's Ira. Right? And then I see Logan, our associate producer, running, and I'm like, okay, wait, Logan knows something I don't. Like what?

[Blaine Alexander]

Wait, guys, go outside now.

[Andrea Canning]

Like, Logan's running, so we run outside. And then I'm looking and I'm looking and I'm like, I have. I actually have pretty good eyesight from far away, and yet I still didn't know. And it was Ira. And so he gained weight. He had dark glasses on. He was. His. His toupee was gone, so they were like, scrambling. And, you know, he comes up and. And then, of course, he made his. His nice little comment to me. Sorry, I got off track because. Oh, yeah, I was. I was talking about him being, you know, playing the victim. Because even in his statement, his In. During his sentencing, he blamed the landscaper, that it was all the landscaper's fault. And I'm thinking, what? Like, you know, take some responsibility.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, yeah. When we come back, we'll Hear a moment from Andrea's interview with detectives that reveals another shocking idea investigators say Ira had for targeting Susan.

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Blaine Alexander]

You know, I think what's you, you talked about his victim mentality and that was so apparent. That was so apparent really from the first moment that we heard him speaking because I was just floored at the way that he described Susan of like, oh, she's lazy. She doesn't do anything. She just takes care of the kids. I'm the one who's out here working. I'm the one who's keeping up our lifestyle. And I'm thinking to myself, like this man has a very low understanding of just what it takes to raise kids and what it takes to keep a household. You know what I mean? Being a stay at home mom, like the whole thing was just so. He had such a clear contempt for her.

[Andrea Canning]

Ye.

[Blaine Alexander]

From the very beginning, before we even knew what his role in all of this was.

[Andrea Canning]

Absolutely. And you just hear through her words the pain that it caused her, you know, the fear that she lives in, like with 24 hours a day. I mean, she just said. She basically said, like, you destroyed our life, this life that we had. And he did. Divorce is hard enough on children, but not just divorce, but. But then dad's trying to kill mom.

[Blaine Alexander]

And it also shows that he didn't learn his lesson. So even after he gets out of prison, especially after it's like, okay, might he come back for a third? He's not somebody who is easily dissuaded from this thing that he wants to do.

[Andrea Canning]

The judge called it mind boggling. The judge said that he was confused how someone could do this. I think we all are. Like, why would you. Why would you do this again?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, yeah. There were a lot of twists in this one. I mean, in addition to just that in and of itself. But let's talk about Markenzi. When you sat down and talked with him, it was clear that you all had such a great rapport that you really got to know each other well. But that he had this kind of sense of, I just want to do what's right no matter what. Did he ever give any sense? Like, was he nervous during this process?

[Andrea Canning]

Like, just kind of.

[Blaine Alexander]

What were his inner thoughts being part of this?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, he, like, he seemed pretty cool about it. He just has kind of a laid back vibe to him.

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

So.

[Andrea Canning]

So there really was none of that where he's like, you know, I. I thought I. My life could be over at any moment or it wasn't. It was. It was. He. He's pretty cool under pressure.

[Blaine Alexander]

I was going to ask where. If he was still selling cars or there were just so many skills of his that came out that he would be really good at undercover war for so many other things.

[Andrea Canning]

I know. Maybe he should have, like, become a private investigator or something. Yeah, he's still. He's still in the car business. It was good to catch up with him again.

[Blaine Alexander]

Of course. Of course. Let's talk about just this notion of an undercover operation, right? I mean, the wiring of the car, the having to meet up, the realization. I think what was interesting is that he could walk up to the line, but he couldn't do too much because he couldn't, you know, try and convince them to do something. How fascinating are those sting cases to you? I know that you went undercover in an episode yourself, right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. Wow. That was a long, open heart die. That was a long time ago. My gosh. Yes. I was pregnant for real. And it was an adoption story. And it was myself and an AP who both pretended to be pregnant to meet with this adoption lady who, you know, worked for an adoption agency. And I was trying to basically sell my baby. And I was saying, you know, what if I'm using drugs, do I have to put that on the application? And she's like, no, you can leave it off.

[Blaine Alexander]

Oh, my gosh.

[Andrea Canning]

So that was. I was nervous, though. You want to talk about heart pounding? My heart was pounding, like, during. During the adoption undercover. I was like, yeah, like, the thump, the thump, the thump, like. And she knew, though, what was interesting, kind of just like Ira, you know, where his instincts were sort of like, halfway there, something's not right. This woman, she was halfway there, she knew something was up.

[Blaine Alexander]

Interesting. Wow. I'm curious what happened with that.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, we ended up telling her we were from Dateline, and she got up and she went away, went to her car. And then the crazy thing is, though, she actually came to New York and did a follow up interview.

[Blaine Alexander]

What a wild story.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow.

[Blaine Alexander]

So I know that for me, just watching Undercover Operations on TV in your episode in movies, I get nervous. So I can't imagine actually doing one of those.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, it really was heartbreaking, though, because she. People were being promised children and what. Blaine, we're moms. Like, what would be more heartbreaking than you're expecting to get, you know, your child, to bring your child home. And then this woman, after years of disagreement, and then this woman is saying, oh, sorry, they chose someone else. Meanwhile, it's all scam. You know, it was. It was really. That's why we called it hope and heartbreak. Yeah, sure.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, this. I mean, people should go back and watch that one as well. Yeah, so let's get back to podiatrist. Let's talk about Ira himself. I mean, we talked about him a little bit, but the. I think the funniest thing, I actually laughed out loud when you revealed that he was the official foot doctor. Official podiatrist for the police department.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, and both of these guys

[Blaine Alexander]

had been patients of his and like,

[Andrea Canning]

and the meetings are happening, like, in the parking lot, like, next to the police department. It's so funny because the morning our original show aired, so I was on another date line where I'd injured my ankle, foot getting out in a snowstorm, getting out of a police car, and it just wouldn't heal. So finally I broke down and made an appointment with the podiatrist. And it happened to be the morning that our show was airing. And so I took a picture with the podiatrist and put it on Twitter. And I accidentally. This is so bad. I accidentally called him Ira Bernstein in the.

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

In the.

[Andrea Canning]

In the Twitter post. Like, I just. Somebody, like, quickly corrected me, but I was like, oh, my gosh.

[Blaine Alexander]

Sorry. Like.

[Andrea Canning]

Like, please don't sue me. I messed up.

[Blaine Alexander]

Just normal. Good dog.

[Andrea Canning]

Exactly.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. That's hilarious. What a coincidence for a timing. I know. For your appointment timing. Oh, my goodness. But let's talk about Kelly. The dynamic between Kelly and Kelly and Ira, but just Kelly herself. Right. I'm. I'm curious what it was like for you to sit down with her.

[Andrea Canning]

I don't even know how to explain her. Like, it. I've never met anyone like her where she did such a bad thing. And then it was almost like it wasn't that bad or something with talking to her. And also her loyalty to Ira where, you know, she's like, no, we're in love and this is happening. And he's like, my guy. And, you know, and then he makes her sit in jail for four months. Well, he bails out in, like, four days or whatever.

[Blaine Alexander]

Right. It was strange to me. I mean, a number of things, but one, just watching her be the one to kind of be this. I mean, she was like his shield, right? Like, she acted as his protector. This kind of like, well, we just need to be sure. And, you know, clearly she was the one sticking her neck out, and he was kind of, you know, staying in the background. But just this notion of, like, there's this successful, clearly very well off doctor and she's the one doing all of the dirty work. Right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. It's so wrong. I know. And she was so in love with

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

him,

[Andrea Canning]

but she, from what I understand, you know, from her attorney, is really trying to get her life back together and, you know, her relationship with her children. I think she's hopefully learned her lesson if Ira hasn't. Hopefully Kelly has.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. Yeah. And then let's talk about Susan. I think the thing about the story that just at the very end, when we finally heard from Susan, but that she asked, even in the courtroom, that there were no cameras on her, that just broke my heart because I just thought about, gosh, what this woman has gone through and to just try and hide, Right. Like, she hadn't asked for any of this.

[Andrea Canning]

She really summed it up in her victim impact statement, what her life has been like and. And how horrible it is for her, for her children.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, there are so many pieces and so many different people in all of this. Let's talk about the landscaper, because he was somebody who, again, kind of going back to this kind of trail of people who just have been wronged in some way by Ira. I mean, this is a gentleman who lost his business, essentially, or the control of his business.

[Andrea Canning]

Right, right. And. And Susan actually called not only the landscaper, but Markenzi her angels, you know, for saving her. And by the way, Susan and Markenzie are friends, which is really cool. But the landscaper. Yeah, I mean, he. And I said to the detective, I said, like, doesn't he watch Dateline, the landscaper? Like, why would he want to get into business with someone like that? And she said, apparently he knew. And Ira told the landscaper that it was all Kelly, that he got sucked into this thing because of Kelly. And so he, again, is a victim. And so the landscaper trusted him and then got burned.

[Blaine Alexander]

Gosh. Yeah. Let's talk about. There is an extra clip of an interview that you did with Detective Peggy Braddock that didn't make it into our broadcast, but I wanna listen to a little bit of it here. She kind of describes this conversation that Ira had with that landscaper. We were talking about sitting around, drinking wine, eating cheese. Ira floated this idea. I mean, just. The whole thing is just so outside the realm of reality.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's take a listen to it.

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

And as the conversation went on, they started talking about things that weren't involving business. So they were telling some funny stories about their childhood and their past. And the landscaper told a story about a friend of his who was, I believe, in business with somebody and felt he had been done wrong. So when this person was driving, he called the police and told him that this person had drugs in their car. And they were stopped and were ultimately arrested for having the drugs in the car. So Ira said to the landscaper, do you think we can do this to Susan? So as they were talking over wine and cheese, he says, well, my wife drives an Audi. And the landscaper says, well, my cousin, a distant cousin, works for Audi. And they're like, well, you think you can make a key? And the landscaper's like, well, how would you do this? He's like, what does Susan do? And he's like, well, she goes to book clubs. She goes to cooking club. And the landscaper's like, what, are you crazy? Who's going to think that a woman who goes to book club and to cooking club is carrying a kilo of drugs in her car? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. What's wrong with you? And he just, like, puts a kibosh on the conversation.

[Andrea Canning]

So plant the drugs in Susan's car

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

and have her rest.

[Andrea Canning]

The of. It only escalated from there.

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

It definitely escalated from there. But it just shows that even back then, he was still thinking of ways to the wheels to get to his wife.

[Andrea Canning]

The wheels were turning.

[Detective Peggy Braddock]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow. He's like the widely. What is it? Coyote, you know, that, like, keeps coming back, like the bad with weird thoughts, I should say. Blaine, we're laughing because of the absurdity of some of these things that we're talking about and hearing. It's not funny. Susan, this is her life. This is not funny. But it's hard not to laugh at moments of the absurdity of Ira Bernstein.

[Blaine Alexander]

It just defies reality, defies logic. Right. It's outside of the realm of what anyone would ever think that another human being would come up with.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. It's like, hard to imagine them sitting over wine and cheese and being like, let's plant a kilo of drugs in her car.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. You know, I think that one thing that really stands out to me about this episode, and I recently, I just a couple of weeks ago, did a talking dateline with Keith on his Murder and Magnolias podcast series, and it was the same thing, this plot for hire to kill someone that fortunately never came to fruition. I am just stunned by how easily people can sit around and kind of hatch these ideas or talk about the notion of killing someone. Paying to kill. I mean, it comes so easily in these discussions. And it's unbelievable, really.

[Andrea Canning]

It is unbelievable. Cause, like, number one, you have to be willing to take someone's life. Okay. But then you have to think about, what if I'm caught? I'm gonna go to prison for the rest of my life and what will happen to my children and all these different things. And then you still think it's a good idea.

[Blaine Alexander]

Still going through all these things.

[Andrea Canning]

And the dumbest thing about Murder for Hire is that now you're involving another person. This person that you bring or people that you're bringing into this plot are not going to turn on you or tell someone else or like, that's a lot of trust to place in someone.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, truly, Truly. Well, there was so much in this episode. And coming up after the break, we will answer some of your questions from social media.

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Blaine Alexander]

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[Andrea Canning]

So my favorite part, I love hearing, I love hearing from our faithful viewers.

[Blaine Alexander]

Well, listen, as you can expect, people had thoughts about this episode. Lots of thoughts. So let's go to the first one. Okay. Rayford512 asks, was Kelly a real mortician that did embalm me or did she just sell caskets at the funeral home?

[Andrea Canning]

Great question. When I asked Kelly about her role as a mortician, she went to school, learned how to embalm, but she didn't actually do embalming because I guess because of the Jewish faith, they do not embalm.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, so she had the skill. She just didn't put it in practice necessarily. This is from Fran Macken. Okay, this is a good one. I would have liked more discussion on his comment to Andrea questioning why would he talk to her slash Dateline again, after what they did to him the first time, did he feel he was portrayed badly, edited badly. So he hadn't talked about that a lot?

[Andrea Canning]

He never said. He just kept walking. And I kept, you know, calling out some more questions to him and then he was gone. And then Even when I was sitting next to him in the courtroom, nothing, Just silence. So, you know, only Ira would know what he is upset about.

[Blaine Alexander]

He's thinking there. Okay, here's one from Jamie Walsh Honeycutt. I know the doctors make a lot of dough, but his wealth seemed even more beyond that. What's the full story? Where did his money come from? Did he come from money?

[Andrea Canning]

I'm not sure what his family situation was with money, but he had different centers, like foot centers. And he also, if I recall correctly, was buying properties, like real estate. So I think the money was coming from different places. But they lived in a beautiful house on a beautiful property.

[Blaine Alexander]

I have to say, when I first saw that aerial shot.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Blaine Alexander]

Like, early, early in the episode, I said, oh, my gosh, like, what is his. What's this person's story? Because, yes, that goes far beyond any just normal Dr.

[Andrea Canning]

Wealth I've ever seen. And they, they had a lake, their own lake. I mean, they dock.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, it was, it was, it was quite the estate. Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. I'm curious.

[Blaine Alexander]

Aside from, I mean, his prison and the divorce, did Susan get any other money from him? Just like a financial kind of penalty for trying to have her killed?

[Andrea Canning]

Susan sued not only Ira, but Ira's sister as well for damages. And that is unresolved.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, got it. Here's a question from at Penny Pumpkin 33. Love it writes, was Mark Kenzie getting paid to help with this investigation? I hope so.

[Andrea Canning]

Not that I'm aware of. I think he just did it because he wanted to help and save Susan

[Blaine Alexander]

out of the goodness of his heart. Yeah. And here's the one. This one's for a comment. It's from Rick T. Purser, who writes, wow, how do you get two easy sentences for attempted murder?

[Andrea Canning]

I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing. Ira never actually pled guilty to conspiracy to commit murder. He pled guilty to tampering with evidence. And so, you know, there's only so much prison time that comes with a crime like that. It was different from the first time around. It was a trickier, trickier case.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, I think a lot of people would agree with that one. Absolutely. Well, Andrea, this was a fascinating episode. I mean, a case you followed for a long time, and it was just really, really just interesting to watch. So thank you so much and thanks for talking Dateline with me.

[Andrea Canning]

Thanks, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

And that's it for talking Dateline this week. Thanks so much as always for listening. Remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can always DM us your audio or video questions on social media DATELINE NBC. Or you can leave us a voicemail on the telephone. That number is 212-413-5252. For a chance to be featured right here on a talking DATELINE podcast. And don't forget to listen to Josh's new podcast, Trace of Suspicion, available now wherever you get your podcasts. And you can get early access to subsequent episodes. And listen ad free to all DATELINE podcasts by subscribing to DATELINE Premium. That's all for us now. We will, of course, see you Friday at 9, 8 Central on Dateline on NBC.

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