Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: The Devil Wore White"

Release Date: February 5, 2025

Overview

In the episode titled "The Devil Wore White," hosts Josh Mankiewicz and Keith Morrison delve into the dark and intricate story of Sante Kimes, a criminal mastermind from the 1990s, and her tumultuous relationship with her youngest son, Kenny. Unlike typical Dateline episodes that focus on the dynamics between killers and their victims, this episode explores the complex bond between two perpetrators. The discussion is enriched with insightful commentary, personal anecdotes, and exclusive interview clips, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the Kimes family's criminal endeavors.

1. Introduction to Sante Kimes and Kenny

Josh Mankiewicz introduces the episode by highlighting the unique focus on the relationship between Sante Kimes and her son Kenny, setting the stage for an unconventional true-crime narrative.

• Quote [01:11]: "This episode is called the Devil Wore White, and it's the kind of story that we almost never do at Dateline because it's less about the relationship between killer and victim and almost entirely about the relationship between killer and other killer."

Keith Morrison shares his personal experience covering the case in New York in the late '90s, emphasizing the extraordinary and dark nature of Sante and Kenny's activities.

• Quote [02:55]: "That's exactly what it is. The craziest story ever."

2. Sante Kimes: A Charismatic Manipulator

The hosts discuss Sante Kimes' ability to charm and manipulate those around her, masking her true homicidal nature behind a facade of charisma and sophistication.

• Quote [03:54]: "She was charismatic. She was the sort of person you love to be with. She was friendly and open. She looked like Elizabeth Taylor."

Sante's deceptive backstory and her knack for persuading influential figures, such as the Vice President of the United States and the United Nations, are examined, showcasing her manipulative prowess.

• Quote [04:24]: "She was an Okie, supposedly, and a poor one was her story... she lied about everything."

3. The Influence of Sante on Kenny

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how Sante groomed her son Kenny for a life of crime, illustrating the depth of her control and the challenges Kenny faced in breaking free.

• Quote [05:50]: "You cannot cross Sante and get away with it."

• Quote [12:26]: "He was her little prince. She did everything imaginable for him and she attached him to herself from such an early age."

The hosts explore Kenny's internal struggle and his eventual realization of the consequences of his actions, influenced by his relationship with his girlfriend.

4. Kenny Kimes: Confession and Consequences

Kenny's confession to the murders serves as a pivotal moment in the narrative, highlighting his attempt to save both himself and his mother from severe legal repercussions.

• Quote [19:58]: "Kenny confessed to all the murders to save her from death row, save her from the death penalty, Save himself, too, at the same time."

Keith Morrison discusses the authenticity of Kenny's remorse, questioning whether his expressions are genuine or a facade to gain forgiveness.

• Quote [16:10]: "He did some terrible things. So in a way, I don't feel sorry for him at all. He's exactly as you say, where he belongs."

5. Exclusive Interview with Kenny Kimes

An exclusive clip from Kenny Kimes' interview provides a personal glimpse into his early life with Sante, revealing the complexities of their relationship.

Kenny Kimes shares childhood memories that juxtapose Sante's nurturing side with her darker inclinations.

• Quote [17:59]: "She was lying in bed like the big bad wolf in grandma's house... she was trying to pretend to be Irene Silverman."

• Quote [18:14]: "We ate... she loves some oysters."

He reflects on how Sante's benevolent gestures made it difficult to reconcile with her criminal actions.

• Quote [19:00]: "You fall in love with the good stuff that she was... it made it too easy to forgive the bad stuff."

6. Producer Anne Priceman's Insights

Anne Priceman, a longtime Dateline producer, joins the conversation to address questions from social media, offering behind-the-scenes perspectives on covering the Kimes case.

• Quote [23:05]: "I was a Booker back in 97... It was just 90% of my time. It was a fun story to work on, mainly because the developments were everywhere."

Anne discusses the challenges of reporting on such a convoluted case and her working relationship with Keith Morrison.

7. Audience Engagement and Social Media Questions

The episode features interactions with listeners, addressing their curiosities and misconceptions about the hosts' relationships and the broader implications of the Kimes' crimes.

• Listener Question [27:14]: "Do Josh and Keith get along? Are they frenemies?"

Andrea Canning clarifies the friendly rapport between Josh and Keith, dispelling rumors of any underlying tensions.

• Quote [27:51]: "No, I can absolutely tell you that they are friends and they love ribbing each other."

8. Reflections on Criminal Influence and Rehabilitation

The hosts reflect on the broader themes of manipulation, redemption, and the impact of upbringing on criminal behavior, contemplating the potential for rehabilitation amidst deep-seated influences.

• Quote [24:27]: "If you were raised as a con artist, it's great training to negotiate prison in a certain way because you know how to target people, befriend people, get things out of people."

9. Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

Josh wraps up the episode by teasing future stories, including the murder of Cash App founder Bob Lee, and encourages listeners to engage with Dateline NBC through social media and upcoming broadcasts.

• Quote [28:42]: "So that is talking DATELINE for the week. Thanks very much, Keith and Ann, and thanks to all of you for listening."

Key Takeaways

• Sante Kimes was a highly charismatic and manipulative figure who successfully concealed her criminal activities behind a veneer of sophistication and charm.

• Kenny Kimes, under his mother's influence, became entangled in a life of crime, struggling to break free from Sante's overpowering control.

• The relationship between Sante and Kenny exemplifies how deep familial bonds can be exploited to perpetuate criminal behavior.

• Dateline NBC provides an in-depth exploration of complex true-crime stories, offering listeners both investigative insights and personal narratives from those involved.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [01:11] Josh Mankiewicz: "This episode is called the Devil Wore White... it's less about the relationship between killer and victim and almost entirely about the relationship between killer and other killer."

• [03:54] Keith Morrison: "She was charismatic. She was the sort of person you love to be with... she looked like Elizabeth Taylor."

• [12:26] Keith Morrison: "He was her little prince. She did everything imaginable for him and she attached him to herself from such an early age."

• [19:58] Josh Mankiewicz: "Kenny confessed to all the murders to save her from death row, save her from the death penalty, Save himself, too, at the same time."

• [17:59] Kenny Kimes: "She was lying in bed like the big bad wolf in grandma's house... she was trying to pretend to be Irene Silverman."

• [27:14] Haviva Gordon Bennett: "Are Josh and Keith frenemies?"

• [27:51] Andrea Canning: "They are friends and they love ribbing each other."

Final Thoughts

"Talking Dateline: The Devil Wore White" offers a gripping examination of the psychological and emotional dynamics within a family bound by crime. Through expert storytelling and firsthand accounts, Josh Mankiewicz and Keith Morrison shed light on the complexities of manipulation, loyalty, and redemption, making this episode a compelling listen for true-crime enthusiasts.