Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details"

Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Blaine Alexander
Guest: Andrea Canning

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details", hosted by Blaine Alexander and featuring guest Andrea Canning, the Dateline NBC team delves deep into the mysterious and tragic case of Michael Cochran, a young father from West Virginia whose sudden death in 2019 unraveled a web of deceit, fraud, and possible murder. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and emotional narratives presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

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Michael Cochran’s Storybook Life

The episode begins by painting a picture of Michael Cochran's seemingly idyllic life. Michael and his wife, Natalie, were portrayed as a successful and affluent family residing in the Beckley area of West Virginia. Andrea Canning describes their lifestyle:

Andrea Canning [02:07]: "They were buying boats and motorcycles and properties and going on lavish international trips. They really seemed like they were living the high life the way that you..."

Michael’s background includes education from West Virginia University, with both he and Natalie obtaining degrees in their respective fields—Michael in IT and Natalie as a pharmacist. Their two children added to the image of a perfect family, fostering trust and admiration within their community.

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Unveiling the Fraud: The Ponzi Scheme

Blaine Alexander and Andrea Canning delve into the crux of the case: a sophisticated Ponzi scheme intertwined with Michael’s untimely death. The discussion highlights the transition from legitimate business endeavors to fraudulent activities that ultimately led to betrayal among close friends and family.

Blaine Alexander [03:42]: "She had done that work, so she was allowed to be dealing, you know, with this stuff. And Michael was the one who apparently was always searching out the contracts."

Natalie Cochran’s involvement in handling government contracts reflects a smooth façade, reminiscent of the movie "War Dogs", which inspired their initial business ventures. However, Andrea points out:

Andrea Canning [04:44]: "It came from the movie War Dogs... Everything started out legit. ... it leads to Ponzi and murder, you know."

Natalie's role as a pharmacist and a specialist in diabetes, particularly in handling insulin, becomes a pivotal element in the unfolding mystery, suggesting her potential involvement in poisoning Michael.

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The Suspicion of Poisoning

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the circumstances surrounding Michael's death, raising suspicions of poisoning. Michael exhibited unexplained symptoms, including seizures and brain swelling, leading to questions about the legitimacy of his medical issues.

Andrea Canning [05:15]: "The prosecution feels very strongly that he was not aware, based on text messages between Natalie and Michael. ..."

The examination of possible toxins, such as ethylene glycol and colchicine, underscores the sophistication required to execute such a poisoning, especially considering Natalie’s medical expertise.

Andrea Canning [12:15]: "I did a story on a cancer doctor who was accused of attempted murder of her lover... she put antifreeze ethylene glycol in his coffee."

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Emotional Toll on Friends and Family

The episode does not shy away from the emotional aftermath experienced by Michael’s loved ones. Chris Davis, Michael's best friend, shares his raw grief and realization of betrayal upon uncovering the truth.

Chris Davis [16:17]: "There was no reason to. Is there any... Oh, my goodness. That's the day Mike fell out."

Andrea highlights the profound impact on Donna and Ed, Michael’s parents, emphasizing that the betrayal surpassed financial loss, deeply affecting their trust and emotional well-being.

Andrea Canning [07:43]: "The betrayal was almost far worse than the money for Donna and Ed... we're going to be fine."

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Comparisons to Other High-Profile Cases

Blaine draws parallels between Michael’s case and the infamous Alex Murdaugh case, noting similarities in financial deception and murder, which adds a layer of relatability and context for listeners familiar with true crime narratives.

Blaine Alexander [06:34]: "Financial issues and then doing all of these things to keep someone from finding out and then murder at the end... this was an extremely quick verdict."

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Audience Engagement and Social Media Questions

The podcast episode features an interactive segment where Blaine and Andrea address listeners’ questions sourced from social media platforms. These questions range from inquiries about potential alternative motives to specifics about the lack of an autopsy.

1. Pharmacist and Supplement Use

   Stacy Tastydela [20:18]: "She's a pharmacist and let him take a sketchy supplement from Mexico."

   Andrea responds by expressing skepticism about the actions of a professional like Natalie:

   Andrea Canning [20:28]: "It is a little strange that that is her expertise. She might want to really warn her husband against something like that."

2. Leukemia Diagnosis Investigation

   Cheryl Haley Rodriguez [20:55]: "Was her leukemia diagnosis ever investigated?"

   Andrea clarifies the lack of official investigation into Natalie’s alleged cancer diagnosis:

   Andrea Canning [21:32]: "I don't think it was officially investigated necessarily... everyone in town seemed to know that the cancer was fake."

3. Absence of an Autopsy

   Julie Waters Hamrick [21:38]: "Why wasn't there an autopsy done?"

   Andrea explains the context of hospice care and its typical procedures:

   Andrea Canning [21:38]: "Because he went into hospice. ... Usually, it's elderly people, people, you know, end of life with cancer or whatever it may be."

4. Michael’s Awareness of Financial Schemes

   Jay [22:59]: "If he was buying these cars, like, talked about the fact that he had the cars, how could he not have known if he was making big ticket purchases too?"

   Andrea reiterates the prosecution's stance on Michael's possible ignorance of the scheme:

   Andrea Canning [23:22]: "According to prosecutors... Michael just wasn't getting, like, what he needed from Natalie... he trusted Natalie."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Andrea and Blaine reflecting on the emotional weight of the case and the unwavering support from friends like Chris Davis. They emphasize the importance of uncovering truth and seeking justice, even when it shatters the most trusted relationships.

Andrea Canning [25:27]: "As always, excellent bag of questions today."

Blaine wraps up by encouraging listeners to engage with the show and stay tuned for more in-depth investigations.

Blaine Alexander [25:24]: "Yes, yes. And this was an excellent episode. Andrea. Thank you so much for talking DATELINE with me."

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Key Quotes

• Andrea Canning [04:44]: "It came from the movie War Dogs... Everything started out legit. ... it leads to Ponzi and murder."
• Blaine Alexander [06:34]: "Financial issues and then doing all of these things to keep someone from finding out and then murder at the end."
• Chris Davis [16:17]: "There was no reason to. Is there any... Oh, my goodness. That's the day Mike fell out."
• Andrea Canning [21:32]: "I don't think it was officially investigated necessarily... everyone in town seemed to know that the cancer was fake."
• Andrea Canning [25:27]: "As always, excellent bag of questions today."

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Final Notes

"Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details" offers a compelling exploration of betrayal, trust, and the dark underbelly of seemingly perfect lives. Through insightful discussions and emotional interviews, Andrea Canning and Blaine Alexander shed light on the complexities of Michael Cochran’s case, leaving listeners both informed and emotionally engaged.

For those interested in delving deeper into the story, subscribing to Dateline Premium is recommended, offering ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content.

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This summary is structured to provide a comprehensive and engaging overview of the podcast episode, incorporating key discussions, notable quotes with timestamps, and clear sectioning for ease of understanding.

Transcript

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[Jenna Bush Hager]

Hey, everyone, it's Jenna Bush Hager from Today with Jenna and Friends, reminding you to check out my podcast, Open Book with Jenna. In this week's episode, I sit down with Hannah Berner and Paige Destro Sorbo from the Giggly Squad podcasts to discuss friendships in their new book, how to Giggle A Guide to Taking Life Less Seriously. You can listen to the full conversation now by searching Open Book with Jenna wherever you get your podcasts.

[Blaine Alexander]

Hi, everyone. I am Blaine Alexander, and this is Talking dateline. I'm joined today by Andrea Canning to discuss her latest episode, the Devil's in the Details. Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hey, Blaine. Hey.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, so if you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed. So go there, listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. Just a quick recap. In 2019, the sudden death of Michael Cochran, a young dad from West Virginia, left his family and friends reeling. But an investigation pulled back the curtain on their storybook family life to reveal a planned killing and a sinister scheme. For this Talking DATELINE episode, we have an extra clip from Andrea's interview with Michael's best friend, Chris Davis. All right, Andrea, so let's talk dateline.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's do it.

[Blaine Alexander]

So, Andrea, I always kind of like rank Dateline episodes by the amount of times that I talk to myself while I'm watching the episode. And this one, I was giving very authentic exclamations throughout the entire episode.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, this one had a lot in it. You know, not usually, obviously, we deal with murder on Dateline, but this had a whole other layer to the betrayal.

[Blaine Alexander]

Let's kind of go to the beginning and just talk about the storybook life. Right? I mean, because that's a really a good way to put it. They were a gorgeous family. She's a pharmacist. I mean, they were very much a successful family. Two cute kids.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, they grew up in the area, in the Beckley area. This is, you know, as we opened the whole show, you know, it's like where, you know, friends are like family, and everyone just trusts each other. And yes, they had the two kids, and they went to West Virginia University. She got her pharmacy degree, and he got his degree in it. And they had all these toys, you know, they had. They were buying boats and motorcycles and properties and going on lavish international trips. You know, they. They really seemed like they were living the high life the way that you.

[Blaine Alexander]

Guys revealed in the episode. The degree of their, I don't know, financial affluence, I guess you could just say. I mean, like, oh, that escalated quickly. You know, I mean, you think that they're a beautiful family, little league, but then when you hear just kind of like about the money and the way they're living this high life was a big surprise. And I think that it would be even more impactful in a small town, in a smaller community like that.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And I think that's part of what drew people in to want to invest was seeing how well they were doing. Well, oh, my gosh, I want to. I want that. You know, and. And if they're doing this well with this, then sounds like a great opportunity. And again, we trust them. So it's like a win win, only it wasn't.

[Blaine Alexander]

Exactly. So let's talk about this Ponzi scheme, because before we get to the crime of murder, the that we first deal with in this episode is fraud. So first I was just really interested in the arms business in the first place. Like, who knew that it was so easy to go from pharmacy to getting into the arms business and allegedly having these government contracts?

[Andrea Canning]

Well, it. You know, as we say in the show, it came from the movie War Dogs, which I did see that movie. Did you see it? Mm, mm.

[Blaine Alexander]

No.

[Andrea Canning]

It was a good movie. It was based on a true story. I don't know how loosely based, but supposedly that's where they got the idea from. And there's actually a movie poster in their office of War Dogs. The sad thing about this whole thing was that everything started out legit.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

You know, she got her whatever accreditation she needed, like, whatever, you know, for signing up with the government. That was all legit. She had done that work, so she was allowed to be dealing, you know, with this stuff. And Michael was the one who apparently was always searching out the contracts. Oh, this one looks good. Let's try this one. And then, you know, if you. If you believe the prosecution, he just didn't realize that she wasn't, you know, finishing the job, following through. It's like she sees a movie and she's like, let's do this. And then it. Gosh. And then it leads to Ponzi and.

[Blaine Alexander]

Murder, you know, and it's taking money from family, right? Taking from your best friend.

[Andrea Canning]

I don't know how anyone could do that, because, I mean, first of all, how could you do it at all? But then it's your own parents, it's your husband's parents. It's your best friends.

[Blaine Alexander]

I think the biggest question in all of this, Andrea, as I was watching, as I'm sure everybody else was watching, did Michael know about this scheme? Right. Like, that's certainly what the defense says, that he was in on this thing from the very beginning. But I'm curious. Is there any chance that he actually knew what was going on, or was he completely in the dark here?

[Andrea Canning]

Well, there the defense is saying, you know, how could he not? But the prosecution feels very strongly that he was not aware, based on text messages between Natalie and Michael. And the text messages were, you know, where's the money? Why is the bank, you know, not giving us the money? It really does seem like he can't get a grasp on it. He's like, I don't understand what's wrong. And from what I've heard, and it seems to me that Michael wouldn't do that to his own parents.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, you have to have a lot of trust, right? Like, he trusted her. You have trust when you're in marriage. You have trust when you're in business. So you kind of think, okay, she's handling this. She says she is. I'm moving on to something else. And I know it's handled.

[Andrea Canning]

And I know that if it was. If I was in a business like that with my husband, and, you know, my husband's a finance guy. Like, if he was like, no, no, I got. I got this side of it. Like, I would not. I'm going to be totally honest right now. Maybe I'm stupid, but, like, I would not be following up. I'd be. I would totally trust my husband and be like, great. Oh, that's so awesome. I'm so glad that that worked out, you know?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes. Check that part's done. Check it off the list. Move on to something else.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I buy that. I buy that he maybe wasn't checking up on everything.

[Blaine Alexander]

It also kind of. This is a complete aside, listening to this. It had a lot of echoes of the Alex Murdaugh case.

[Andrea Canning]

Someone else just said that to me.

[Blaine Alexander]

Financial issues and then doing all of these things to keep someone from finding out and then murder at the end, right? Like, to. It really, really reminded me of that. I mean, this beautiful fairy tale life, Everything is perfect, but really it wasn't.

[Andrea Canning]

And Blaine, it's all about the walls closing in, right? You know, and we talked about the ticking and the, you know, on the walls. And like, imagine the pressure as this. The scheme is like, you know, just closing in, closing in. Because now the one. If the prosecution's right, the one person that, like, has been a part of this unknowingly is now about to find out. And, you know, their theory is that, like, he would not be okay with this and that this would all come crashing down, you know, that day when they're supposed to go to this meeting. That's where it all. What it all comes down to.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, I mean, we talk earlier about just the utter betrayal of, you know, scamming the people that are closest to her. Right? I mean, the people that are closest to them in their lives. I'm curious how they're doing in terms of just kind of like recovering from all of this. I mean, those are tremendous amounts of money that they lost.

[Andrea Canning]

A lot of money. Obviously you want your money back, but I think the betrayal was almost far worse than the money for Donna and Ed. You know, I do. I did ask them about that. And, you know, they lost their life savings, right? Their retirement. And they, you know, they, they stressed in the interview, like, we're okay, you know, we're. We're going to be fine. But, like, how sad that you save and you save all that money and then like, it's just poof. Like, because, you know, in retirement, that money, that means a lot.

[Blaine Alexander]

Of course, of course. When we get back, we've got a podcast exclusive clip from Andrea's interview with Michael's best friend, Chris Davis.

[Andrea Canning]

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[Blaine Alexander]

Let'S talk about Michael's death. It was really tragic in so many ways to hear several of his family members talk about how they said goodbye, their last goodbyes to him. And at the time, many of them were like, okay, this is natural causes. This is just something that unfortunately just happened.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, it just. At the same time, it made no sense. You know, you want answers. Like, even if you think it's a natural death, you still want answers. And they didn't really have any. They knew that he had brain swelling, but the doctors, like, they just couldn't explain what was the source of that. And so for them, it was not only a heartbreaking time, saying goodbye, but confusing.

[Blaine Alexander]

Is there any proof that Michael had been poisoned? Other times before his death, was he actually having seizures? Like, kind of. What was his medical history up until that point?

[Andrea Canning]

So he. He had told one friend, I believe, that he was getting sick, and, you know, he didn't know what was making him sick. And then as far as the seizures go, so Natalie was always the one saying that he was having seizures. It seemed, through the eyes of the police anyway, and the prosecutors, that his medical history and then current medical situation was all being narrated by Natalie. But remember, he was in the hospital for a few days, several months before he died.

[Blaine Alexander]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

So he definitely was having issues. And the prosecutors believe. They had no proof, but they believe that when he was in the hospital the first time, that it was either possibly that she had tried to poison him and didn't get the amount right, that it was a dry run of some kind. You know, this was the theory of the prosecution.

[Blaine Alexander]

I think what was interesting to is that Natalie's a pharmacist, so she understands theoretically how these things work. Right. Like, if you or I were to try and poison someone, like, I'd have to Google, I would have to. I wouldn't know inherently what one is supposed to do, but to have an understanding kind of of how medicine reacts with the body, I think was certainly an interesting tidbit as well.

[Andrea Canning]

And she also was a specialist in diabetes and with insulin, so she had that added knowledge.

[Blaine Alexander]

Let's talk for a second about poison as a murder weapon of choice. Right. I mean, I know that it's something that you've talked about a number of times on the True Crime Weekly podcast. I mean, we've seen it. We've seen. Right. Like, eye drops sometimes as different options.

[Andrea Canning]

I did a story on a cancer doctor who was accused of attempted murder of her lover. She had poisoned him with. His kidneys were shutting down. She put antifreeze ethylene glycol in his coffee, which is, you know, has some parallels to this story.

[Blaine Alexander]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

With the insulin. His body was shutting down, and it was mostly attacking his kidneys. He appeared almost drunk, and he showed up finally later that night at the er, and he, like, basically collapsed in the er.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

A nurse had noticed that his urine was crystallized, and the nurse said that is a sign of ethylene glycol. And so while they never found the ethylene glycol in him, just like they never found the insulin in Michael, the belief was that he was poisoned with ethylene glycol. And also colchicine recently has become more common as well. And now they're starting to put colchicine on standard tox screenshots.

[Blaine Alexander]

And what is colchicine commonly found in?

[Andrea Canning]

Colchicine is a gout medication.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay.

[Andrea Canning]

And in high concentration, it will make someone violently ill and their organs start to shut down.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

So that was another dateline that I did with colchicine. It comes from autumn crocus. It's a flower. Like, I know they do synthetic and all that now, but like, it. It originates from the autumn crocus plant or flower, whatever that is.

[Blaine Alexander]

Andrea, I've got to say, next time you update your resume, you need to put poison expert, because you. You know a lot about a lot of these things, my dear.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, the. The defendant in that culture scene, when she told the police at one point, it was on camera, she's like, poison is a lady's weapon.

[Blaine Alexander]

Fascinating. You know, I have to say that sometimes, I mean, by the time. Typically when we watch these episodes, by the time we get to, you know, towards the end when we're kind of dissecting the trial, you kind of get a sense of which way it's going to go. Right. This one, both sides had me. Like, if I was a juror, I would have had a very hard time trying to kind of bring a verdict in this one.

[Andrea Canning]

Only it was an extremely quick verdict.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, it was.

[Andrea Canning]

I think one of the biggest problems for her was that she told these two different stories you know, about why she had the insulin. You know, she's getting it from Jennifer for her, you know, nausea for her cancer that apparently didn't exist. And then there's the story to the police that she had it on hand for Chris and Jennifer's son. But, I mean, and we say this in the show, there. There's that. That text trail, right, of her asking for the insulin that morning from Jennifer. You know, that's. That's hard to get around.

[Blaine Alexander]

So it was Jennifer and Chris who gave Natalie that insulin. Like, how do they. Do they wrestle with that? So.

[Andrea Canning]

They absolutely do. Jennifer struggles with that so much to this day. You know, she was. She was obviously duped, but. Yeah, yeah, like, would he be here? And I. And I told Jennifer, I said it would never hinge on you, you know, and what you. Someone who wants to carry out murder is going to carry out murder.

[Blaine Alexander]

And, Andrea, I know that you have some extra sound from Chris and Jennifer about the moment they realized what had happened. Let's listen to that.

[Andrea Canning]

She tells you she needs it for cancer, and then she tells investigators she needs it for your son.

[Blaine Alexander]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

What. What's your reaction to. To this news from the investigators?

[Chris Davis]

That's when we started realizing that things.

[Blaine Alexander]

Were bad and that she had been lying.

[Chris Davis]

When Jennifer's having this conversation with investigators and they're saying, hey, did you ever leave insulin over there for your son? No. Never? You never left it over?

[Andrea Canning]

No.

[Chris Davis]

There was no reason to. Is there any. Was there ever a reason you gave her insulin? Oh, yeah. The time she got sick and she needed it because her blood sugar. Because of her cancer. When was that? Well, let's look. Oh, my goodness. That's the day Mike fell out.

[Andrea Canning]

So.

[Chris Davis]

Absolutely.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. That's the day Michael got sick.

[Chris Davis]

And so because of all those facts now come together that were unknown and that piggybacked with the fact that she had just been raided. And so that's why when I said, for us, it all really came together at really kind of one moment.

[Blaine Alexander]

Imagine having that realization.

[Andrea Canning]

No, when you realize that's the day.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. I thought that Chris was so. Oh, my goodness. He was just such a. Such a strong, compelling interview in this. His grief over losing his friend is so raw.

[Andrea Canning]

You don't even. Like, we don't even show all the times Chris cried in that interview. I mean, at one point, you hear me in the show, and I'm like, oh, everyone needs a friend like you. A friend like you. Because I was like, look, I truly believe my friends would be sad if something happened to me. I don't know, you know, that they would break down like that. So maybe, I don't know. But I was like, this is proof to me that, Chris, you are an incredible friend. I mean, my goodness, gosh, he loved Michael so much. That was really one of the most powerful interviews that I have ever done, especially with a friend. And Blaine, I'll just say really quickly, that was their anniversary they did the day they did that interview.

[Blaine Alexander]

Oh, my goodness.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this was so emotional. We've ruined your anniversary. And, like, please, you know, go enjoy. Go have dinner and enjoy yourself and, like, try to have a good evening. Because when they told me that, I was like, oh, my gosh, I feel so bad, so heavy.

[Blaine Alexander]

They're so amazing for doing that. I also think that speaks just to how much they thought of their friend, that they would do something like that and really kind of dredge up those feelings and do that interview for him. Up next, we are taking your questions from social media.

[Al Roker]

A true crime story never really ends. Even when a case is closed, the journey for those left behind is just beginning.

[Narrator]

Since our Dateline story aired, Tracy has harnessed her outrage into a mission.

[Andrea Canning]

I had no other option. I had to do something.

[Al Roker]

Catch up with families, friends, and investigators on our bonus series, after the Verdict. Ordinary people facing extraordinary circumstances with strength and courage.

[Blaine Alexander]

It does just change your life. But speaking up for these issues helps me keep going.

[Al Roker]

To listen to after the Verdict, subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at datelinepremium.com hey, guys, Willie Geist.

[Eric Church]

Here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with country music superstar Eric Church to talk about his new album and taking an unconventional and uncompromising route to the top in Nashville. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.

[Mayor]

Citizens, since we each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI fi has been booming. It's fair to say our town has officially become a boom town.

[Andrea Canning]

Mayor, will I be able to drop into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?

[Mayor]

The lag won't be an issue, but your questionable skills may be.

[Blaine Alexander]

And what if I have hundreds of devices on the WI Fi? Purely hypothetical Seems like a lot, but.

[Mayor]

Sure, hundreds of devices all booming together with the Xfinity gateway. Yes, friends and neighbors, with Xfinity, the WI fi is booming.

[Andrea Canning]

Restrictions apply. Hi.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, we are back and we're gonna answer some of your questions from social media. Andrea, you ready?

[Andrea Canning]

I'm ready.

[Blaine Alexander]

Some interesting ones. Okay, so Stacy Tastydela on X says she's a pharmacist and let him take a sketchy supplement from Mexico. Interesting.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know about the word let, you know, I don't know if anyone lets anyone do anything, but, yeah, it is a little strange that that is her expertise. She might want to really warn her husband against something like that. But, you know, people do what they do, so. And we weren't there, so who knows?

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay. Cheryl Haley Rodriguez on Facebook wrote, was her leukemia diagnosis ever investigated?

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, investigated, you know, I guess. In what sense does, you know, Cheryl, mean, like, investigated, like, by law? You know, I don't think it was officially investigated necessarily. I think that they just figured out that, according to prosecutors, that she did not have cancer. It really seemed to come and go so quickly. And also these triple chemo, triple radiation. The prosecutors told us that's not a real thing, but everyone in town seemed to know that the cancer was fake. As far as properly investigated, I honestly don't know.

[Blaine Alexander]

Here's a question from Julie Waters Hamrick, who wrote on Facebook, why wasn't there an autopsy done?

[Andrea Canning]

Because he went into hospice. You know, it's for terminally ill patients. And I think that at that point, it was believed to be natural causes. And autopsies just aren't a normal thing in hospice. You know, usually it's elderly people, people, you know, end of life with cancer or whatever it may be that it's kind of known, you know, what they have and what's wrong in this case. So I did say to the detective at one point, I said something like, so this kind of fell through the cracks. Then he agreed.

[Blaine Alexander]

Hmm, that's super interesting. Okay, here's one from Randy Giamarco at Randy Tony G3 on X. So Randy writes, Michael must have wanted receipts, and she didn't have any, so she killed him.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, yes, I think it comes down to that type of, you know, where. Where's. What is happening? Why is, you know, why is this bank to bank not going through this transaction? And, you know, all of. All of that surrounding the money, He. According to prosecutors, Michael just wasn't getting, like, what he needed from Natalie, you know, to put his mind at ease. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that's. That's a fair assessment. Simplified.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. You know, I have. I have a question along those lines. This is coming from my own viewer at home. Jay had this question.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, well, this is. This is Importante coming from Jay, I need to hear this.

[Blaine Alexander]

A question that needs answering. So we're talking about this, and he says, you know, if he was buying these cars, like, talked about the fact that he had the cars, like, he had to have had some transparency into what the bank account was looking like. How could he not have known if he was making big ticket purchases, too?

[Andrea Canning]

Again, I just keep putting everything on prosecutors because according to them, and their theory, because it is a theory, is that she was handling the money, Michael is finding the contracts, and Natalie is. Is really executing them, and she's the one getting the money from the investors. She's the one supposedly getting the money from the government. And so their theory is that he. He just. The money just kept coming in, Natalie's handling it. And I think Michael really trusted Natalee, you know, and so when she told him that the money, you know, was. Was coming in from the government, he believed her.

[Blaine Alexander]

Jay will be very happy that we addressed this question. So thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you, Jay, for watching. Thank you for watching.

[Blaine Alexander]

He definitely does. Okay, here's one. We actually asked our listeners a question. Why do you think Natalie sent around that photo of Michael, the photo of him on the floor? Here's a response from Ella at twistedfairytale on X. Ella writes in her warped mind, it was a sort of an alibi or she's sick and proud.

[Andrea Canning]

Ella, that is another excellent question. I side with the. Again, this is. I don't. I, you know, don't know these people. Obviously. I don't know Natalie. Um, but I think it was sort of an. Personally, I think it was sort of an alibi that she was saying, look, oh, my gosh, he fell. Here he is on the floor. You know, he's sick, he's this, he's that. The prosecution, though, just like they said, she kept the insulin, the murder weapon, they also believe that it was some sort of, like, you know, a twisted trophy just like the insulin. That. That she was sort of in her sick mind was like, look, look what happened to him. And it's like she's like, look what I did. Even though she didn't say that out loud, that was what the prose. I think she was just trying to show people, like, oh, my gosh, look what happened. You know, almost like calling all the friends over. Yeah, I feel like that was all part of, like, a larger alibi.

[Blaine Alexander]

Absolutely. Wow. A lot of great questions that we had. From our viewers.

[Andrea Canning]

As always, excellent bag of questions today.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, yes. And this was an excellent episode. Andrea. Thank you so much for talking DATELINE with me.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you.

[Blaine Alexander]

And that's it for talking DATELINE this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can always reach us 24. 7 on social media, ainenbc. And if you have a question for talking Dateline, you can record a message and send it to us on social media. Or you can leave a voicemail. Here's that phone number, 212-413-5252, for a chance to be featured on a future DATELINE episode. Also this Friday at 9, 8 Central, I've got an all new two hour dateline for you, so please be sure to check it out. See you then on DATELINE on NBC. And as always, thanks so much for listening.

[Narrator]

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