Talking Dateline: The Girl in the Blue Mustang

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Talking Dateline: The Girl in the Blue Mustang

Podcast: Dateline NBC
Episode: Talking Dateline: The Girl in the Blue Mustang
Date: February 18, 2026
Hosts: Andrea Canning, Keith Morrison
Guests: Clint Ehrlich, (clips from Raymond Jennings)
Theme: A behind-the-scenes discussion of Keith Morrison’s original podcast series chronicling the long, tumultuous case known as “The Girl in the Blue Mustang”—the murder of Michelle O’Keefe, the wrongful conviction of security guard Raymond Jennings, and the life-altering impact truth-seekers and family endured along the way.

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This “Talking Dateline” episode delves into the riveting story covered in Keith Morrison’s podcast, "The Girl in the Blue Mustang," focusing on the 26-year-old murder case of Michelle O’Keefe. Host Andrea Canning and Morrison dissect the twists, investigative pivots, and emotional turmoil of a case involving a young woman found murdered after attending a music video shoot, the confounding conviction (and eventual exoneration) of security guard Raymond Jennings, and the role of a dedicated Dateline viewer who upended the status quo. They discuss what it's like to follow a story for decades, highlight the toll on families and communities, and reflect on the flawed pursuit of justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Overview of the Case

• The Victim: Michelle O’Keefe, a radiant and joyful young woman, excited for Hollywood opportunities (05:01), was murdered in her blue Mustang after appearing in a Kid Rock music video.
• The Conviction: Security guard Raymond Jennings, tried three times, was eventually convicted, primarily based on the perception that he "knew too much" (06:11), but later exonerated.
• A Case Turned Upside Down: Clint Ehrlich, a self-taught legal mind, discovered the case via Dateline, found problems with the prosecution, and catalyzed Jennings’ release (01:41, 14:39).

2. Michelle O’Keefe’s Premonitions

• Michelle had several eerie premonitions: a haunting comment about dying early, telling her brother he would outlive her, and noticing her Mustang’s license plate included code “187”—police slang for homicide (03:20).
  • Andrea Canning: “I was so taken aback by this premonition that she had... How did she know that? I would never have known something like that as a teen.” (03:04)

3. The Importance of the Blue Mustang & Stick Shift

• Michelle’s pride in her manual-transmission Mustang proved vital to the investigation, as knowledge of how to operate a stick shift became a clue (05:03).
  • Keith Morrison: “The fact that it had a stick shift was so instrumental in this story.” (05:03)

4. Suspects and Tunnel Vision

• Police focus soon narrowed on Raymond Jennings because “he knew too much.” He waived legal protection, seeking to be helpful, which worked against him (06:28).
  • Keith Morrison: “It was a perfect example of why even if you want to be helpful and you’re not guilty, it’s a wise thing to have an attorney there.” (07:27)
• Jurors, swayed by his detailed account, sidelined other suspects; accusations of ‘tunnel vision’ were prevalent (08:31).

5. Trials, Juries, and the Justice System

• Jennings was tried three times: two hung juries in LA, a conviction in Palmdale, reflecting differing civic attitudes toward law enforcement and evidence—echoing broader national trends post-O.J. trial (10:32).
  • Keith Morrison: “Palmdale is a different kettle of fish than Los Angeles. LA juries do not have the same attitude toward the police…” (10:32)

6. The Power of Belief vs. Evidence

• Morrison and Canning discuss how often convictions (and acquittals) rest more on belief and human bias than on hard evidence (12:17).
  • Keith Morrison: “Belief is a scary thing… Evidence is pretty dry and often leads in a slightly different direction than belief does.” (12:16)

7. Clint Ehrlich: The Accidental Advocate

• Ehrlich, a law-savvy autodidact with no particular agenda, was drawn in by Jennings’ unwavering statement of innocence and faith at sentencing (14:39, 16:44).
  • Clint Ehrlich: “Either this was an innocent man or this was a sociopath who deserved an Academy Award. And I just had to know which one.” (16:45)
• His intervention led to Jennings’ exoneration, sparking reflection on how “Dateline” can catalyze real-world change.
  • Keith Morrison: “Who among us would… upend his whole life and spend several years trying to show the verdict… was wrong?” (19:10)
  • Andrea Canning: “To think that Dateline sparked all of this… does it always amaze you when the show reaches certain people and makes a difference?” (19:27)

8. The Enduring Agony of the O'Keefe Family

• Michelle’s murder devastated her family: her parents divorced, her brother later died by suicide after addiction struggles, and ongoing legal turmoil compounded the pain (22:46).
  • Andrea Canning: “How much can one family endure?” (23:24)
• Her father persists in his belief that Jennings is guilty, illustrating how trauma can calcify perceptions even in the face of contrary evidence (23:51).

9. Raymond Jennings’ Reflections on Innocence and Suffering

• Excerpts from Morrison’s interview show Jennings wrestling with “Why me?” and ultimately embracing faith and the broader ripple effects of the tragedy (24:25).
  • Raymond Jennings: “Sometimes you have to take yourself out of that box we put ourselves in and look at the ripple effects… Both families were destroyed… These are things we can never get back.” (25:03)
  • Keith Morrison: “He doesn’t hold grudges… it’s always such an inspiration to see that.” (26:02)
• Jennings was fully exonerated and strives for a peaceful, constructive life post-release (26:42).

10. The Case Remains Unsolved

• Despite Jennings’ exoneration, the ultimate question—who killed Michelle?—remains unresolved. Even within local law enforcement, opinions are divided, and Morrison doubts a satisfying conclusion is forthcoming (19:46, 26:59).
  • Keith Morrison: “But the tale of the girl in the blue Mustang is not satisfactorily ended, in my opinion.” (19:46)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Michelle’s Premonition:
  • Andrea Canning (03:04): “I was so taken aback by this premonition that she had… the digits on her tags for her Mustang were 187. And she knew that meant homicide. How did she know that?…”
• Tunnel Vision:
  • Keith Morrison (07:27): “It was a perfect example of why… even if you want to be helpful… it’s a wise thing to have an attorney there with you so you don’t get yourself into trouble like he did.”
  • Andrea Canning (08:31): “Of course, there’s the big accusation of tunnel vision, that the other potential suspects just fell away.”
• Trials & Jury Culture:
  • Keith Morrison (10:32): “Culturally, Palmdale is a whole other kettle of fish than Los Angeles. So two trials in LA… LA juries do not [have the] same attitude toward the police, toward evidence, toward anything…”
• Belief vs. Evidence:
  • Keith Morrison (12:17): “You can believe all kinds of stuff… Evidence is… pretty dry and… often leads in a slightly different direction than belief does.”
• Clint Ehrlich’s Motivation:
  • Clint Ehrlich (16:45): "Either this was an innocent man or this was a sociopath who deserved an Academy Award. And I just had to know which one."
• Ripple Effects & Forgiveness (Raymond Jennings):
  • Raymond Jennings (25:03): “You’d look in that mirror and I’d be like, why me?... but… look at the ripple effects… People’s lives have been changed forever… Both families were destroyed… I know it turned out for my good.”
• Lingering Injustice:
  • Keith Morrison (19:46): “But the tale of the girl in the blue Mustang is not satisfactorily ended, in my opinion.”
• Sense of Loss:
  • Keith Morrison (28:01): “I find myself thinking about young Michelle O’Keefe, who will never, never grow old, never have grown children, never be married… all of those things… she will not have.”

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41 | Morrison’s case recap | | 03:04 | Michelle’s premonitions | | 05:03 | The blue Mustang and the stick shift detail | | 06:28 | Focus on Raymond Jennings—“the man who knew too much”| | 08:31 | Tunnel vision and abandonment of other suspects | | 10:32 | Impact of jury culture and trial locations | | 12:16 | Discussion on belief vs. evidence | | 14:39 | Clint Ehrlich discovers the case | | 16:44 | Clint’s turning point after hearing Jennings speak | | 19:10 | The rarity of a viewer turning into a change agent | | 22:46 | The devastation of the O’Keefe family | | 24:25 | Jennings on suffering and faith | | 26:42 | Jennings’ attitude post-exoneration | | 26:59 | Morrison on the unresolved nature of the case | | 28:01 | Reflections on loss and longing for justice |

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Tone and Style

• Respectful & Empathetic: Andrea and Keith deeply empathize with both the victim and the wrongfully accused.
• Inquisitive: Both hosts probe the complexities of police work, the justice system, and personal motivations.
• Reflective: Repeatedly, they contemplate the unpredictable and sometimes unsatisfying nature of true crime stories.

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Conclusion

This episode provides both an emotional and analytical journey through the labyrinthine saga behind “The Girl in the Blue Mustang.” It invites listeners to ponder questions of justice, the fallibility of human belief, and the far-reaching impact of tragedy on victims, families, and even those wrongfully accused. The power of media to spark real-world change is front and center, as is the enduring pain and hope that still envelop Michelle O’Keefe’s family. For those seeking closure, the case’s end still feels distant—its story, heartbreakingly, not yet closed.

Transcript

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[Andrea Canning]

Hey, everyone, I'm Andrea Canning, and we are talking dateline. And today we are here with Keith Morrison to talk about his original podcast series called the Girl in the Blue Mustang. Before we get into the discussion, we're dropping the full series in the DATELINE feed as a bonus, while DATELINE is taking a break for the Winter Olympics. So go take a listen and then come back here. And later, we'll have two extra clips for this episode. The first is from Keith's interview with the man once convicted of the murder. The second is from Keith's interview with the DATELINE viewer who believed he was innocent. Okay, let's talk dateline.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

Hey, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Thank you, Andrea. It's nice to be here. Let me give you a quick recap of what happened in this story. What it's all about. It's a young woman who had gone to a music video taping, and when she arrived back to the parking lot where she left her car, she was attacked and killed in a very violent way. And it was a story of really the next couple of decades of back and forth and who was responsible. And they found somebody, tried him three times, finally convicted him of murder. And then several years later, an autodidact, a very smart guy happened to see DATELINE on his computer and turned the whole thing upside down. And events have transpired ever since then that sometimes confound the census. As of I think next week, it'll be 26 years since this happened.

[Clint Ehrlich]

Wow.

[Keith Morrison]

And those 26 years, you know, there are still people holding a candle for one side or another in this crazy, crazy story. Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm not surprised I texted you. Well, because I've been listening to this all week. I started listening to it and I could not stop.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, good. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

I was listening to it in my bedroom, in the car, in the kitchen. It was just so incredibly powerful. And wow, what a roller coaster, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Indeed, a roller coaster. Yes. Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's start with Michelle, the victim here. I was so taken aback by this premonition that she had. We'll just remind everyone, Michelle, they were watching TV and there was a guy in a coffin. He couldn't get out. And she said to her dad, I just have this feeling I'm gonna die. And then two more things happened. She told her brother that you're probably gonna live longer than me. And then also, this one really got me. I don't even know how she knew this, but the digits on her tags for her Mustang were 187. And she knew that that meant homicide for, you know, a police code. And I'm thinking, how did she know that? I would never have known something like that as a te.

[Keith Morrison]

You know, I heard that story a number of times, and it's now kind of been carved into the family lore as something that she understood. And maybe she did. Maybe she did have a premonition. A lot of teenagers get that premonition. And I think if something does happen to that person, then, you know, they understood that they were not going to live very long. Other people, you forget all about it because they go on and live their lives.

[Andrea Canning]

Something that struck me personally. So I left LA a few years before this happened, you know, as a young woman.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

And, you know, just starting my career, and I remember all my friends and me included, you know, there's so many opportunities in LA for being an extra or a music video or whatever it may be. And. And that's what Michelle was doing that day was this Kid Rock video. And it really took me back to my friends looking for all these fun opportunities, you know, not only to make some extra cash, but to kind of insert yourself into Hollywood. It just put me in Michelle's shoes of how excited she must have been that day.

[Keith Morrison]

And very exciting for a young woman.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, you know, that's fun.

[Keith Morrison]

She seemed to look at life that way. She was absolutely a radiant and delightful young woman who was enjoying her life in her brand new blue Mustang. One of the key points in this whole story was how much she loved life and loved that car of hers and wanted to have a manual transmission, wanted to have a stick shift and learned how to drive it. When she was a kid, her father made sure, she could drive it. The fact that it had a stick shift was so instrumental in this story, as you will hear.

[Andrea Canning]

It's a big moment as to who the possible killer is.

[Keith Morrison]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

I had a stick shift. My parents felt it was important back then. My first car. They thought it was important for me to know how to drive both kinds of cars. I'm sure you had a stick shift at some point.

[Keith Morrison]

Still do.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, still do.

[Keith Morrison]

I love it and I take it some places. And you can't take it to valet half the time because sometimes they're not so sure how to do it.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, not surprised. And they're tricky on those hills when you're at a light or something and you gotta. Like when the light turns green. It's a little. Can be a little nerve wracking.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes. However, that was her life. And that was. That's why we called it that. The story of the girl with the blue Mustang. You know, initially we had a different name for this when it was a Dateline television show. We were going to call it the man who Knew Too Much.

[Andrea Canning]

It's really true because that was the Keith that was like the kind of. The heart of it was with Raymond, the security guard. He either was the smartest security guard who should have maybe had a life as a detective because he was so on the ball and so accurate with all of his observations. But then that was his demise, too, because he was too accurate.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, at least according to the police, he was too accurate. And according to that lawyer who deposed him, Rex Paris, the lawyer who worked over Raymond Jennings, the security guard, for hours and hours and hours and really got him all riled up and just solidified the belief on the part of prosecutors and the family that Raymond Jennings was the person who killed their daughter. And again, it was because, you know, he came off as the man who knew too much and didn't bring a lawyer to the interview, didn't bring a lawyer to the interview with the police. He was just somebody who felt, well, I didn't do it and I can tell them what happened, so I'll be helpful. It's just. It was a perfect example of why even if you want to be helpful and you're not guilty, it's a wise thing to have an attorney there with you so that you don't get yourself into trouble like he did.

[Andrea Canning]

I think you are absolutely right in this case. Yes, definitely. Because you just don't know what other people are thinking or how they're going to spin it or any number of things. Can go wrong. And you really should have someone protecting you if you're being looked at for such a serious crime, even if you're.

[Keith Morrison]

A highly experienced detective. He talked to everybody who was there, and nothing made any sense except that this security guard was talking too much. And that's usually a sign, often a sign that somebody is trying to hide his guilt by being too helpful. But it's only one of many signs. Except if that's all you have, you tend to latch onto it. And I think that's what happened here.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And I mean, of course there's the big accusation of tunnel vision, that they just. The other potential suspects just fell away.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, sure. The more you believe that you're on the right track, the less you're gonna look at any other alternatives.

[Andrea Canning]

So this, the trials in this case were. It was really unbelievable that, you know, hung jury, hung jury, and then you hear first degree murder, not guilty. And I was like, oh, my gosh, wow. And then it's like, you know, head sn, second degree murder, guilty. And I have never heard of a jury personally being out for 24 days.

[Keith Morrison]

Not very many, that's for sure.

[Andrea Canning]

And I was, I thought back, like when how you talked about the jury going out to the park and ride because they were close enough this time, you know, to be able to take a field trip. I thought back to different cases that I've had over the years, and one of them was a cliff, one of those, you know, out in the national park or whatever. And I thought to myself, in that case, I realize I'm going off on a tangent here, but the drop was only 10 to 12ft, which doesn't sound like a lot for someone to go over the side of a hill or a cliff or something. Right. I mean, obviously you don't want to do that, but it doesn't sound crazy. It's not like a 60 foot drop. But when you went there and. And you look down at the side of the cliff, you realized, oh my gosh, that would be very traumatic to go down those 10 to 12ft. But the jurors, all they saw were a bunch of photos. And to me, it just didn't do it justice. I was like, you're not getting the full picture when you look at those photos. So sometimes I really think it can help for juries to put themselves at the scene of the crime and to look around. And I'm not saying it had the desired impact here or it did or it didn't, but I think it's really helpful when they can place themselves there.

[Keith Morrison]

It is. And I'm sure it did make a difference. What made a big, big difference additionally was. And it was a smart move on the part of the prosecutor. I guess, when you look at it from his point of view, is culturally, Palmdale is a whole other kettle of fish than Los Angeles. So two trials in Los Angeles, an LA jury, LA juries do not. Same attitude toward the police, toward evidence, toward anything, than they do in law and order Palmdale, at least to some degree.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And you really broke that down with that retrospect of LA juries and how they were. You know, it was tough for prosecutors back then. I mean, I don't, I don't know if it's changed now, but back then it was. Prosecutors were having a difficult time.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, it has changed a lot. The period from the O.J. trial through until just after the turn of the century was a very tough time to be a prosecutor in LA and get the kind of guilty verdicts you were hoping for. Maybe it still is more challenging. I can't tell you. But I think attitudes have changed. My experience, attitudes have changed.

[Andrea Canning]

You know, it reminded me of that story you did on Cal Harris in upstate New York, the car dealer, you know, that one? How many did that have? Four trials.

[Keith Morrison]

I think it was four.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, that was another one that was just like, when is, what, when is this gonna end?

[Keith Morrison]

He knows the record for me, four trials. Three is a few. Three, but four is it. I can't believe that a person would be tried that many times. But, you know, in the end, he was acquitted.

[Andrea Canning]

And it all, you know, it depends on the DA, too, you know, who's in power. And does he want to keep going? Does he want to keep spending the public's money? Does the time and effort that goes into these things.

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[Keith Morrison]

And so often these cases rest on somebody's belief that they're really, I'm convinced that person is guilty or I'm convinced that person is not guilty. And, you know, belief is a scary thing. It's. You can believe all kinds of stuff that doesn't make it true. And evidence is mostly pretty dry. And it often leads in a slightly different direction than belief does.

[Andrea Canning]

After the break, we'll have a talking Dateline exclusive clip with Keith's interview with Clint Ehrlich.

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[Keith Morrison]

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[Andrea Canning]

Raymond, at his sentencing, said, I have no remorse. I'm at peace. I can hold my head up. He was not budging on this. He, you know, I did not do this.

[Keith Morrison]

It was very dramatic. Yeah. Years after Ray Jennings is sent to prison for 40 to life, Clint Ehrlich is up at night and he's just, he can't sleep. And so he pulls out his computer and decides he's going to watch an episode of Dateline because he saw a little ad for it that said there was an Iraq veteran who had been convicted of murder and he couldn't understand why an Iraq veteran would be convicted of murder. Clint is a man who was solidly in support of the American military. So he watched the program and he is a very smart guy and he saw something other people didn't see. I loved talking to him. He called himself a autodidaction.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Yeah, say that again. I never heard that before.

[Keith Morrison]

Autodidact, self taught is what it means. Okay, so he dropped out of high school because he found it too boring. And he studied up, passed the law exam when he was. I don't know how old he was, but he was very young. His dad is an attorney and kind of shepherded him along a little bit. But at the point where we talked, I think you may have seen in that show, he was heading off to the Moscow Institute of Something or other to study some. Some esoteric subject. And when I asked him why he'd be interested in doing that, because it. Because I can. And it's interesting, that kind of guy.

[Andrea Canning]

Keith, we have some extra sound with Clint, and he talks a little more about how that intrigued him and why he needed to know more about this case.

[Keith Morrison]

Was it simply your kind of natural state of being curious about things that made you come to that conclusion, that.

[Clint Ehrlich]

Ray Jennings was an innocent man?

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, I mean, I just. I'm thinking about that episode, and this was an episode where, yes, you're right. It was like, gosh, there wasn't a whole lot that would say it was him, except he talked too much, and who else could have done it?

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

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[Clint Ehrlich]

You know, initially, I didn't think that Ray Jennings was innocent. And then when I saw him speak at his sentencing about Christ and about how he would stand before God and be judged, and he turned to the members of the o' Keeffe family and he said that, I'll stand with you and with you and with you, and we'll answer to this question. And it touched me. And I realized that either this was an innocent man or this was a sociopath who deserved an Academy Award. And I just had to know which one. Was it.

[Keith Morrison]

You a religious person?

[Clint Ehrlich]

Not at all. At least I wasn't before this whole experience. But it's been. It's been hard for me to explain how this all unfolded. There have been a lot of coincidences.

[Keith Morrison]

Coincidences?

[Clint Ehrlich]

I like that force that drew me to watch this Dateline episode, that I am not a person who was working at the Innocence Project. I wasn't trying to find cases about someone being innocent. I was just inexplicably, that night. Well, but it's not just that. I was curious after I saw the episode. Why did I watch the episode? What compelled me? It's the only Dateline I've ever watched, and it drew me in. And if not for that, we wouldn't have Ray Jennings out of prison right now.

[Keith Morrison]

Clinton is a fascinating guy. As he pointed out, he's not a person of faith, put it that way. There was a certain intellectual arrogance about the way he came off, but he earned it. He is a very, very bright man who's learned a lot of stuff all on his own. And faith is not one of the things he brought with him. But in spite of that, what impressed me was his willingness to sit and watch somebody's story because he thought there might be a possibility this person didn't do what was alleged to be done, because Iraq war veteran, how would he do a thing like that? And then, having watched it, would take the trouble of taking steps to do something about it. A lot of us have seen a television show and said, you know, that didn't turn out the way it should have. I mean, I have. I've watched Datelines before and said, that's the wrong verdict, man. That shouldn't have happened that way. But who among us would decide to, you know, upend his whole life and spend several years trying to show that the verdict in that case was wrong just because they had a strong belief that somebody had been unjustly convicted? So whatever else you say about Clint, that is one of the most impressive things I've heard of in a long time.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. To think that Dateline sparked all of this. It's amazing when Keith, even though we've been doing this for a long time, you longer than me, does it always amaze you when the show reaches certain people and makes a difference and something happens?

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, it does.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

It's incredible. Right?

[Keith Morrison]

And then. So you cannot let it go. You have to keep following the string then. And we. We certainly did with this one. Boy, some of the twists and turns this has taken. And it isn't over yet. No. This is a case which reached a conclusion. The conclusion was wrong, continued to try to reach a conclusion, and went in separate directions. So the DA's office is now in LA, is split over who's responsible and what to do about it. The sheriff's department, sheriff's office is split over who's responsible and what to do about it. But the tale of the girl in the blue Mustang is not satisfactorily ended, in my opinion.

[Andrea Canning]

No. I hope that we do get the satisfying ending. When we come back, we'll share an extra clip from Keith's interview with Raymond.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

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[Keith Morrison]

What do you have to lose?

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[Keith Morrison]

No, just the salad.

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[Keith Morrison]

Hey, can I get the fries? Salad.

[Andrea Canning]

So sorry.

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[Andrea Canning]

My heart for this family just breaks. I mean it was one thing after the next. I cannot imagine like murder is enough, right? That's horrible. And then all the things that they so their daughter is murdered and then, you know, we're talking about the couple getting divorced. We are talking about their son ends up taking his own life after getting hooked on pills from an injury. And then of course the three trials they had to sit through the exoneration. I mean, how much can one family endure?

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just truly, truly horrible what they've gone through. And you know, Mike o' Keefe is a very strong guy to have been able to get through all of that and still, you know, want to keep pushing. So give him a lot of credit for that.

[Andrea Canning]

Good for the parents, though, too. It's very difficult during that time, but they really pushed to keep the case alive.

[Keith Morrison]

They did.

[Andrea Canning]

And to get the word out, like, any way they could.

[Keith Morrison]

And, you know, all these years later, they're still doing it. Her father is out there, and he loves talking about the case because he still believes that Raymond Jennings is the person who is responsible for the death of his daughter. And he would like to see him put back in prison, I'm sure. But, you know, Raymond Jennings has been shown to be not guilty.

[Andrea Canning]

We have some extra sound from Raymond that we're going to play. Extra sound from your interview with him.

[Keith Morrison]

Great. There are lots of guys with faith probably just as strong as yours who are still kind of rotting away after many, many years.

[Raymond Jennings]

Yeah, well, you know, I can't speak about how the Lord moves or why he moves and why this happened to me and why I'm sitting here talking to you and other people who are innocent or sitting in prison still. So, you know, that's far beyond my intellect.

[Keith Morrison]

You don't go to the why me? Question. Then you must.

[Raymond Jennings]

I did it. I did. You know, throughout the 11 years.

[Keith Morrison]

Absolutely.

[Raymond Jennings]

It came up many a times, especially when you're hurting.

[Keith Morrison]

Why me?

[Raymond Jennings]

Why me? You'd look in that mirror and I'd be like, why me? I'd be in the cell by myself. Why me? What am I supposed to be learning? What are you trying to show? What are you trying to teach me? What's going on on the outside? Sometimes you have to take yourself out of that box that we put ourselves in and look at the ripple effects of this incident. This one incident, as vicious as it is, it's had a huge ripple effect. People's lives have been changed forever. These are things that we can never get back, you know, and, you know, a family was. Both families were destroyed. You know, one family is still suffering, and now one family has found elation and joy and a, you know, a newfound freedom. So, you know, I don't know why these things happen to particular people or why it happened to me, but I know it turned out for my good.

[Keith Morrison]

That's the thing about Raymond Jennings. And it's been a number of other people I know who have been released from prison after a long time inside. Ray Jennings was in prison for 11 years. Jail or prison, part of that time, awaiting trial and in years afterwards. And yet he came out. And as he said in that interview, he doesn't hold grudges. He is not an angry man. He is not a bitter man. And it's always such an inspiration to see that, that a person can, you know, suffer that much in the course of a life. And then, you know, upon winning his freedom, he's able to put it all aside and move on with a regular life.

[Andrea Canning]

Was he completely exonerated in this, or was it, you know, because sometimes there's degrees of how people are free.

[Keith Morrison]

Absolutely, completely exonerated.

[Andrea Canning]

So how are you left feeling for the future of this case?

[Keith Morrison]

There was a time, and I guess this goes back probably. I mean, this has been going on for a long time, three, four years, when I really did believe that we were going to finally get the true answer to this case, that there was going to be movement in that direction. It would happen. All we had to do was wait and see. And it hasn't happened. So I don't know.

[Andrea Canning]

I hope that your amazing podcast will make sure that they don't stop looking at this case and that someone is held accountable. The right person is held accountable. And at the same time, I also just feel the pain of the parents and what they must be going through. It's like there's no winners, like, anywhere in this. You know, it's just a. It's just an awful, awful story that destroyed a family. And I can only hope that they're maybe, with time, doing a little better.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, you have daughters, and you know how you would feel. I have daughters, and I find myself thinking about young Michelle o', Keeffe, who will never, never grow old, never have grown children, never be married. All of those things that she would have had in her life that she will not have. She could have had a fine, fine life. And those are the things I carry with me. Anyway, the reason that you still want to have some justice for that girl.

[Andrea Canning]

You do. Keith, thank you so much for bringing us this podcast. I assume most people listening to this have listened to it, and if you haven't, you definitely need to listen to this podcast. Yeah, yeah. I mean, as I say that, I'm like, we've just spoiled every twist for you, but you do need to listen to this. Yeah, lots of twists and turns in this one, for sure. And also a long road, too.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, indeed. Yes, that's right.

[Andrea Canning]

These ones are always so interesting when there's just such a huge swath of time right from the beginning to the end. And in this case, it's probably not even the end.

[Keith Morrison]

One of the things for which I am eternally grateful is that we've been on the air long enough at Daedeline to be able to follow cases for, you know, 25 and more years and keep track of all the people in them. And it's just so fascinating. So it's a gift because of how long we've been around.

[Andrea Canning]

Absolutely. And you are a gift, Keith, to all of our viewers and listeners. I know they feel that way about you.

[Keith Morrison]

No, they don't.

[Andrea Canning]

Thanks, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this talking dateline. We are not on the air on NBC this week for the Winter Games, of course, the Olympics. Very exciting. But you can tune into Peacock or our dateline 24. 7 channel to watch anytime. And on Monday, we'll drop another of Keith's original podcasts right here. Oh, no, now I'm gonna have to listen to this one, too, because they're so good. And he'll be back again next week to talk dateline, so get your questions for him ready and DM us your audio or video on our socials at Dateline NBC. Or leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured. Thanks for listening, everyone.

[Craig Melvin]

Hey, everyone, Craig Melvin here from today. The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan, Cortina are finally here. And as we gear up for the Games, the Today show is celebrating the athletes who define what it means to push for greatness. On our podcast series, the Road to Milan, NBC News correspondent Stephanie Gosk sits down with athletes at every step of the Olympic journey, from seasoned veterans like Lindsey Vonn and Mikaela Shifrin to newcomers like Isabel Levito and Jordan Stoles who are stepping onto the world stage for the first time ever. It's a great way to get to know the athletes who are about to give it their all as the world watches. Listen on the TODAY podcast feed or search the road to Milan. Wherever you get your podcasts.