Talking Dateline: The Killer Among Them

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: The Killer Among Them"

Overview In the November 27, 2024 episode of Talking Dateline hosted by Josh Mankiewicz and Andrea Canning, the hosts delve into the gripping Dateline NBC episode titled "The Killer Among Them." This episode explores the 1996 murder of Atlanta millionaire Lance Herndon and uncovers the shocking revelation that the killer was someone from Herndon's inner circle, who had attended his extravagant birthday party shortly before the murder.

Case Introduction Josh Mankiewicz introduces the case by outlining the circumstances of Lance Herndon's untimely death. "An Atlanta millionaire named Lance Herndon was found bludgeoned to death in his home," Mankiewicz explains ([01:10]). The investigation revealed that the murderer was someone Herndon trusted deeply, complicating the mystery and adding layers of intrigue to the case.

Crime Scene and Clues Andrea Canning and Josh discuss the peculiarities of the crime scene, likening it to a mystery novel filled with symbolic clues. "It really reads like a mystery novel when you set it up that way. Almost like an Agatha Christie," Canning remarks ([02:29]). They highlight various clues, such as the girlfriend's photo placed face down, stopped clocks, a wrench, and gum wrappers scattered around the room. Canning refers to the gum wrappers as "the smoking gum" ([04:26]), emphasizing their significance in the investigation.

Investigation and Suspects The hosts delve into Lance Herndon's complex social life, pointing out the numerous female associates who might have had motives for murder. "It definitely did because of his sort of crazy social life in which there were all these women who... had a quite legitimate reason to feel bruised by him and angry at him," Mankiewicz observes ([05:26]). They also discuss the impact of Herndon's character, noting that while he had his flaws, he was also beloved by many who appreciated his generosity and kindness.

Harrison Herndon’s Perspective A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Harrison Herndon, Lance's son, portrayed as a positive figure carrying his father's legacy. "Harrison is a sweetheart. I mean, he has such a big personality," Canning shares ([06:12]). They explore Harrison's relationship with his father and how Lance's larger-than-life persona influenced his upbringing and career aspirations.

Interrogation Insights Josh introduces an extra clip from the killer Dionne Baugh's police interrogation, revealing her unsettling behavior during questioning. Dionne exhibits bizarre behavior, such as smiling awkwardly and expressing fear despite being the prime suspect. "Everything was bizarre about her," Canning comments ([11:34]). This segment showcases the tactical interplay between Dionne and the interrogators, highlighting her attempts to manipulate the narrative.

Trial and Conviction The podcast recounts Dionne Baugh's legal journey, including her initial conviction, the appeal that overturned it, and her eventual sentencing to ten years for manslaughter. "So she's convicted at the first trial. A couple of years later, her conviction is overturned on appeal," Mankiewicz summarizes ([15:21]). The hosts express uncertainty about Dionne's whereabouts post-release, adding to the lingering mysteries of the case.

Audience Interaction and Social Media Questions Talking Dateline incorporates interactive elements by addressing questions from listeners. For instance, Ashley Lennington asks Andrea about the experience of watching oneself on the show while on a plane. Andrea humorously shares, "I really wanted to say to the guy next to me, that's me. That's my show, but would never do that" ([19:05]).

Another listener, Joanna F 318-94705, refers to a poignant phone call Lance made before his death, suggesting it was a "goodbye call." The hosts debate this interpretation, with Mankiewicz asserting, "I don't think he knew it was coming," while Canning acknowledges the friend's suspicious perspective ([20:43]).

Behind the Scenes and Title Origin Andrea shares insights into the creation of the episode's title, "The Killer Among Us." She revealed that Susan Nall, who is responsible for crafting Dateline titles, was influenced by the content of the episode, making Andrea her "muse" ([22:35]). This anecdote underscores the collaborative effort behind producing engaging true-crime stories.

Promotion of New Projects Towards the end of the episode, Josh and Andrea promote their new podcast, Deadly Mirage. Josh describes it as a story involving open marriage, infidelity, and murder intertwined with religious manipulation ([23:13]). They invite listeners to subscribe and tune in for compelling narratives similar to those featured on Dateline NBC.

Conclusion Josh Mankiewicz and Andrea Canning wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage with their content on social media and subscribe to Dateline Premium for an enhanced listening experience. They also highlight their involvement in other projects, emphasizing their commitment to delivering in-depth true-crime and investigative journalism.

Notable Quotes

• Andrea Canning on the episode title: "I did not come up with this title... I was her muse." ([22:52])
• Dionne Baugh during interrogation: "There's a part of me that just wish I never knew him." ([11:58])
• Josh Mankiewicz on Lance's social life: "It definitely did because of his sort of crazy social life..." ([05:26])

Key Takeaways

• The "Killer Among Them" episode intricately unravels the murder of Lance Herndon, revealing unexpected connections within his social circle.
• Detailed exploration of the crime scene highlights the complexity and thought process behind solving such cases.
• Audience interaction enriches the discussion, providing diverse perspectives on the case.
• Behind-the-scenes insights offer a glimpse into the creative process of developing compelling true-crime narratives.

This comprehensive discussion by Josh Mankiewicz and Andrea Canning provides listeners with an engaging and detailed analysis of one of Dateline NBC's most intriguing cases, blending investigative insights with personal anecdotes and audience engagement.

Transcript

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hi, everybody, it's Josh Mankiewicz and we are talking DATELINE Today with Andrea Canning. Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hi. Hi.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So this episode is called the Killer among them. It's from 1996. An Atlanta millionaire named Lance Herndon was found bludgeoned to death in his home and detectives dug into his life. It turned out one of the people closest to him was his killer. And that person had actually been at his big glamorous birthday party in Atlanta just a little while before he was killed. So if you have not listened to this episode yet, it is the episode right below this one on the list of podcasts that you just chose from. So go there, listen to it. Or if you want to watch it, you can stream it on Peacock or watch it on your DVR and then come back here. Now, when you come back, Andrea has an extra clip that she wants to play for us from the killer's police interrogation. And also later, we're going to answer some of your questions about the episode from social media. And now let's talk dateline. So you say Killer Among Us in the episode. Is this one of those rare instances in which the title is actually your title?

[Andrea Canning]

So I did not come up with this title, but I actually, I watched the show Friday like everyone else at home. I mean, I'd seen it before that, but I did notice that. And I had the same question, did the title come from this? So I actually just texted Susan Nall, who comes up with a lot of our titles, and I'm waiting to hear back from her.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Maybe you're like the muse. I like that. So I loved the using of the clouds and the weather to sort of set the scene at the top. And then it ends with the candles being blown out, which suddenly looks very ominous, which is normally a very happy thing. I thought that was great. And the whole idea that, like he'd just celebrated this birthday with this sort of star studded party and now he's dead. And also the fact that the killer was at that party.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, it really reads like a mystery novel when you, when you set it up that way. Almost like an Agatha Christie. And our crew, jp, Julie, Isar, they actually went to Party City and bought this party stuff so they could shoot it at the top of a hotel.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And rented the same room. Right.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. We just clearly we wanted it to be authentic, to really kind of go back to that place. And they did a really good job, I thought.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. I love how that draws you into the mystery that follows. One of the things that sort of jumped out at me in this episode was sort of how weird the crime scene was. Like putting the girlfriend's picture face down at the side of the bed. That says to me, I didn't want to see that woman. Right. Stopping the clocks, which I guess maybe was to prevent the alarm from going off and somebody finding the body sooner.

[Andrea Canning]

That's what I was thinking about. The clocks. Yeah. The crime scene, though, I kept calling it like a game of clue. There were so many clues. The wrench and the clocks, as you mentioned, and the photo turned down and.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The shower and the gum wrappers.

[Andrea Canning]

The gum wrappers. I mean, it was like the wrench in the library with the Mr. Plum. I felt like there were so many clues.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The gum wrappers that were found on the ground. I think the first law enforcement theory was that this person standing outside the house, watching him, chewing gum, throwing the wrappers on the ground.

[Andrea Canning]

I called it the smoking gum.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right. Which I thought.

[Andrea Canning]

It didn't make the show.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I know, but I do love that. I'm applauding here. Yeah. So I used to live in Atlanta before this happened. I lived there about 40 years ago. It's one of my favorites.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I like it too.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I called a friend of mine who lives there and asked if she knew Lance because they sort of ran in the same circles back then. And she said she hadn't even seen the episode. When I talked with her and she was like, oh, yeah, I remember that story. I remember he died. And he was a huge womanizer. That was like the first thing that came out of it. And she hadn't even seen your story.

[Andrea Canning]

Every Dateline is a mystery, but this one really felt like so many suspects.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It definitely did because of his sort of crazy social life in which there were all these women who, many of whom had a sort of a quite legitimate reason to feel bruised by him and angry at him.

[Andrea Canning]

On the other side, though, people really loved Lance too. He had some really good friends and they said that he was so welcoming to people, to Atlanta, and he took care of people. And so this is not a guy who's all bad here, Josh. I mean, he clearly had issues with women by nature of being with that many women. You know, maybe you're not treating them that well, but, you know, it's a two way street sometimes. Dion was married too. Right. So.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

What's she doing? Like she's having an affair on her husband. I think it's a little bit of a two way street as well in some situations.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I will say that one of the great sort of redeeming things about this story is how well Harrison turned out.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Cause he seems to be like. He seems to be like living the life that his dad probably would have wanted for him.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Harrison is a sweetheart. I mean, he has such a big personality. That's what I loved about him, like right from the get go, from the moment I met him. He's one of those people you immediately feel at ease with. He just has a very bubbly personality and he's really frank about it. And something I thought was interesting was, and I don't know if you noticed in the show he calls his dad Lance.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Andrea Canning]

I noticed that instead of dad, when I asked him, why don't you call him dad? And he said he was raised by his stepdad, who he thinks of as a dad, and that Lance, his father, is this larger than life character to him and is so much grander. Remember, Harrison was so little when his dad died. And so how he speaks about Lance and how he's shaped his life, even not being here, the way he lives his professional life and going after his dreams. So I thought that was really nice that he still carries him with him in that way.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

When we come back, we have an extra clip from Dionne Baugh's police interrogation, which is one of the more fun police interrogations I've ever watched.

[Andrea Canning]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

So let's talk some more about Dion. I mean, it feels like everybody in the episode at one time or another had warned Lance about her. Like, why are you doing this? This is nuts. She's young and she's, you know, she's clearly swayed by the fact that I'm getting her a Mercedes and I'm showering her with money.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I mean, you have to wonder how genuine is that relationship if it seems like it's based on monetary things.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

She's got this letter with her that I guess she thought is going to get her that car.

[Andrea Canning]

That was weird.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And in fact, that was just weird. In fact, it's like wearing a sandwich board that says I did it. It's just.

[Andrea Canning]

Just odd. Like, who does that? And why would anyone believe that?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, what are you doing? You sort of want to say to Dion, you were already stalking him. Police already knew that. He already knew that. Like, come on.

[Andrea Canning]

Obviously, yeah, she's going to be on their radar after that. I mean, he's found bludgeoned to death in his bed and everyone says how jealous this woman is.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So at some point, Dion is in there for the police interrogation, in which I'm gonna say does not realize that she is that the Persona she is showing the cops is more important than the things that are coming out of her mouth because she's telling a story which later gets picked apart. But sort of way she talks about Lance and about money and about what she's owed and who she is, that sort of tells you more about Dion than any single thing she says.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And also her smiling and, you know, oh, is this gonna be on? Who talks like that in a police interview room? And also, your boyfriend was just murder, bludgeoned to death. Like who?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

It's just bizarre behavior all around. Everything was bizarre about. About her. I don't know.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

This feels like a good time to listen to some extra sound that did not make the episode. So let's listen to that. This is Dion talking about how she felt fearful after Lance's death. There's a part of me, I'm so glad I met him because he was so excited, and he exposed me to.

[Andrea Canning]

A lot of things.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

But after all this, it's like there's a part of me that just wish I never knew him. Yeah. Now that all this has happened, you know, I can understand that. And now I'm having to look over my shoulder. You know, I won't go to my house in the nighttime because I'm just so afraid. I don't know who's watching me. I don't know what's going to happen.

[Advertiser]

That's scary.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And I don't know if people knew that we were seeing each other. I don't know how many people saw us together. You know, you just never know. You have no idea. You know, the interesting thing there is that she's clearly lying now. We know that. You know, I was afraid the cops are playing along earlier in that same interrogation. They're lying about the video cameras, and she's playing along. It's a nice little dance that's going on there in that little tiny room.

[Andrea Canning]

That's true. I got the impression that she just thought she was smarter or that they would just believe whatever she was selling.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

How many times on Dateline have we seen that? People who sit down in that room and think, I'm smarter than these guys who are interrogating me, and they're not.

[Andrea Canning]

Right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You know, she lies on the stand in her divorce trial, or she tells the truth on the stand in the divorce trial, which means she's lying to the cops, but she can't get her story straight. And it clearly didn't occur to her that cops are going to be watching both of those things.

[Andrea Canning]

That was A big oopsie.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. I love the prosecutor. Going to the divorce hearing. I thought that was interesting.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, I know, right? Clint shows up like a fly on the wall in the back, and she has no idea.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Clint Rucker, when he was a prosecutor, he was the prosecutor in the Tex McIver case, which we covered here on Dateline. And he did a thing, which I. In that case, which I think he did in other cases, which is when he's giving. I can't remember whether it's his opening or his summation. At the end, he had a jar of muddy water, but he shakes it up like a mason jar full of water and dirt, and so it's all muddy. And he puts it down on the edge of the juror box, and he says, this is cloudy. By the time I get through with my argument and take my seat, this jar is going to be clear, and it's going to be clear. Just like each and every one of your minds will be clear about the guilt of this defendant. And then. And then he lays out his case, and that takes an hour or something because it's a long opening or a long summation. By the end, the silt has settled and you can see through the water. It's a good prop.

[Andrea Canning]

I love it. Well, he had.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I don't know if he did it in your trial or not.

[Andrea Canning]

He had a prop in this one, too. He had the wrench they bought at Home Depot because they never found the murder weapon. And Tommy, the former patrol officer, thinks the wrench is at the bottom of the Chattahoochee River.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Tommy was a good interview. I liked him.

[Andrea Canning]

And you know what? He was so great for this story, being so old and that he wasn't one of the detectives on the case, but he knew the case so well, even being a patrolman.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It was also great that you saw him young and then you saw him later, too.

[Andrea Canning]

I love that. Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And that he had that connection showing up when Dion. When he says that he can see Dion's leg, well, he doesn't know it's Dion, but he sees a leg in the car, and he's like, what the heck? And then it's Dion, and he gets her out of the car, and then he said she just went, like, nuts. You know, she's kicking the cage. Yes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So she's convicted at the first trial. A couple of years later, her conviction is overturned on appeal. She's retried. This time, that does not go to verdict, and they offer her manslaughter and she takes it and she does 10 years. And Dion is out now walking around.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Any idea what she's been up to?

[Andrea Canning]

No, we we were not able to find her. I thought maybe she'd gone back to Jamaica, you know, but no idea.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Okay, after the break, we will be back to answer some of your questions from social media.

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

So for the first time on Talking Dateline, we have some audio questions from social media from our viewers, which is a new thing that we're doing. So let's listen to those. So from Instagram, Ashley Lennington.

[Andrea Canning]

Hi. I was just listening to Deadly Dance and a silly question popped up for Andrea. How does it feel when you are on the plane watching an episode of Dateline that you are featured on? Are you embarrassed if somebody sees you watching Dateline when you're on it, or how does that make you feel?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I have not had the experience of seeing myself on an airplane.

[Andrea Canning]

The timing was perfect. I was coming home from Salt Lake City last week, and boom, there it was. This Dateline aired on the plane on NBC. And yes, there I was watching it. And I wasn't embarrassed because I don't think anyone knew or was like, really paying attention to me or what I was watching.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So nobody's pointing at the screen and they're like, is that you?

[Andrea Canning]

I think so. But I gotta be honest, I really wanted to say to the guy next to me, that's me. That's my show, but would never do that. So. But thank you, Ashley. Good question. I like it, Ashley.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And now, next, from me to Sampat.

[Andrea Canning]

Has there ever been a new story from the past? It doesn't matter what the timeline is, but from the past that you wish Dateline had covered and there wasn't an opportunity to do so?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, I can answer that question, which is that sometimes there are stories that we want to do, and the people in them that we need to interview them, they want to get paid. That's happened to me once or twice. They want some kind of monetary compensation. And we do not pay people because one that changes the story. We're not in that business.

[Andrea Canning]

Right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And you can't, you know, when you pay people, you're sort of saying to them, we expect a great story out of you. And it sort of encourages them to, you know, kind of soup up their account. So, yeah, we don't pay people.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Then the whole story falls apart.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

All right, let's go to more social media. Joanna F 318-94705 which is a very catchy social media handle, Joanna.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my gosh, I will never forget that handle.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

As long as I live.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I wanted to get that, but apparently.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it was taken.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, that's the first one I went after.

[Andrea Canning]

We love you, Joanna.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

She's referring to Lance's phone call telling his friend to take care of herself right before he was killed. And she says that sounds like a goodbye call. Like he knew it was coming. I don't think he knew it was coming.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. No, but his friend sure thought it was odd.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I think, in fact, he wasn't suspicious enough because he shouldn't have let that woman into his house.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, but she'll never forget that call. And she did think it wasn't like him to call out of the blue and talk like that.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Next. Southern Beach Girl says, if you have to designate girlfriends as primary and secondaries, I don't want to be on the list. Yeah, I would agree.

[Andrea Canning]

I agree with you. Southern Beach Girl. Absolutely. Yep.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Mike H. 1990 says, how horrible for Talana because she tried to warn him as best she could. And she did.

[Andrea Canning]

She did.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I mean, that's. Yeah, she. I mean, I thought of all the people in this that were actually involved in it. I'm not counting the son, because he was a baby at the time. But, I mean, I mean, she was, you know, she was on the side of the angels. She loved him. She cared about him. She worked for him. She was trying to sort of keep him on the right path.

[Andrea Canning]

And what a great interview, too, I'll say. About Talana. I really enjoyed meeting her, really like her as a person. She was such a great ad to the show.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Free Kev22 or FreeKEV22? No way to know. Says he leased a married woman at Mercedes. How on earth did her husband not know? That's a good question. I presume at some point, Deon's husband had to cross police radar. Right. I mean, that's the kind of thing that makes you want to kill somebody, is you find out that somebody's not only seeing your wife, but leased their car.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. Oh, by the way, Susan N. Responded about that question that we had, remember, about the name the Killer Among Us, Susan Nall says, who writes our titles a lot of the time. She said she did come up with the name, based on my question. The Killer Among Us.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

In the show. So I was her muse. There you go. Okay. There's your update.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And you're also mine. Aw. You should put that on your business card.

[Andrea Canning]

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Josh, that is talking Dateline for this week.

[Andrea Canning]

Before we go, you have a new podcast called Deadly Mirage.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Tell us about it. This is a story from here in California from about 10 years ago. There was a whole other life that went on involving open marriage and involving what people would call wife swapping. My wife and I and Rob and.

[Andrea Canning]

Sabrina would engage in sexual activities. If that's what a couple agrees with in their marriage, then that's their business.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And then there was also infidelity that in this case was not sanctioned. And then there was a murder that came from that. And it is one hell of a story. And one of the amazing things which made a lot of people crazy was the idea that religion was used as sort of a way to not only justify the murder, but also cover it up.

[Andrea Canning]

Look forward to it.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And that's called Deadly Mirage and it is available very shortly.

[Andrea Canning]

Awesome. Thanks, Josh. This has been fun as always.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Andrea, thank you. And thanks to everyone for listening to us. Remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories or any cases that you think we should cover, you can reach out to us on social at datelinenbc or send us an audio message for a chance to be featured in our next talking Dateline episode. Also, don't forget to listen to my all new podcast which is called Deadly Mirage. And you can start getting episodes for free beginning next Tuesday, December 3rd. Or you can subscribe to Dateline Premium and start listening now ad free wherever you get your podcasts. See you Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm Poet Said Jones.

[Andrea Canning]

And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

On Vibe Check, we talk about everything, news, culture and entertainment and how it all feels.

[Andrea Canning]

That's right, we talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes, indeed. And it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check wherever you get your podcasts.