Talking Dateline: The Man of Many Faces

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary: "Talking Dateline: The Man of Many Faces"

Episode Release Date: December 18, 2024

Introduction

In this special edition of "Talking Dateline," hosts Andrea Canning and producer Lynn Keller delve deep into one of Dateline NBC's most intriguing episodes, titled "The Man of Many Faces." This episode unravels the complex story of Nicholas Oliverdian, an American man accused of orchestrating an elaborate con to evade law enforcement by faking his own death and fleeing to Scotland.

The Story of Nicholas Oliverdian

Nicholas Oliverdian, also known as Arthur Knight, became the focus of a gripping true-crime investigation after he allegedly committed violent crimes, including rape, and subsequently attempted to disappear from the public eye. Andrea Canning introduces the story by highlighting Nicholas's daring escape: “... Nicholas Oliverdian, faked his own death and fled the country. Investigators and our DATELINE team tracked down the elusive fugitive to Scotland before he was extradited back to the United States to face justice...” [01:15].

Investigative Process

Lynn Keller recounts how the interest in Nicholas's case began: “I feel like you emailed me a link to the story... And we just kept talking about how crazy it was...” [02:13]. The team collaborated with reporters from Rhode Island and Scotland to piece together Nicholas's movements and motives. An important breakthrough occurred when investigators connected Nicholas to crimes through DNA evidence, ultimately confirming his identity upon his return to the U.S. Keller explains, “...the investigator testified that they did test his DNA and it was, in fact, Nicholas Rossi, Ale Verdean.” [20:25].

Victims' Perspectives

The episode gives a voice to the victims, particularly Mary and Katherine, who bravely came forward despite fear and adversity. Andrea Canning praises their strength: “... kudos to Mary, kudos to Katherine, who survived and is doing great.” [16:00]. Mary’s efforts to support other victims and her role in ensuring Nicholas became a registered sex offender underscore the impact of his actions on multiple lives.

Character Complexity

A central theme of the discussion is Nicholas's multifaceted personality, earning him the title "The Man of Many Faces." Andrea shares her perplexity: “...he is a kind of weird dichotomy. It's one of those ones you're sort of confused to how you should react to this man.” [08:51]. The hosts explore the dichotomy between Nicholas's manipulative behavior and the possibility of him being a victim of his own troubled past. Lynn adds, “...he really was trying to change the law because when he was in the foster care system...it was one of the things he was trying to change.” [22:58].

Legal Proceedings

Nicholas has pleaded not guilty to all charges and faces a maximum sentence of five years to life imprisonment. Frederic Canning discusses the legal strategies involved: “...this plea deal sounds like a no brainer unless he wants to roll the dice with a judge or a jury.” [23:34]. The potential for a trial versus accepting a plea deal remains a critical point of consideration as the case progresses.

Social Media Discussions

Listeners raised pertinent questions on social media, particularly regarding the necessity of DNA testing in confirming Nicholas's identity. Andrea addresses these concerns: “...will Miranda face any charges?... Until she says it, I mean.” [21:17]. Additionally, discussions touched on Miranda Oliverdian’s possible knowledge of her husband’s fugitive status, though no evidence currently suggests her involvement.

Notable Quotes

• Andrea Canning reflects on the victims' courage: “...these women said, look, we're speaking out because we wanna prevent this from happening to anybody else.” [03:48].
• Lynn Keller describes the investigative team's frustration: “...this was an extremely unusual circumstance to have somebody who was obviously faking...” [05:21].
• Andrea shares a candid moment during the interview: “...he stands up and falls over in that kind of, dare I say, iconic moment, that triggered me, you know, to start laughing.” [04:19].

Conclusion

Andrea and Lynn conclude the discussion by emphasizing the importance of bringing justice to the victims and the ongoing challenges in prosecuting such complex cases. They express hope for future interviews and continued investigation into Nicholas Oliverdian’s motives and actions. Andrea remarks, “...if he is convicted of these crimes, that that's what will give her some peace.” [16:00].

The hosts also highlight broader issues within the criminal justice system, such as the handling of untested rape kits, advocating for more rigorous testing to ensure that victims receive the justice they deserve.

Final Thoughts

"Talking Dateline: The Man of Many Faces" offers listeners an in-depth exploration of a captivating true-crime story, blending investigative journalism with personal insights from those directly involved in the case. This episode not only recounts Nicholas Oliverdian’s intricate web of deceit but also honors the resilience and bravery of his victims, making it a standout installment in the Dateline NBC podcast series.

Transcript

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[Andrea Canning]

Hey, everyone, it's Andrea Canning and we are talking dateline Today is a special treat. I'm joined by DATELINE producer Lynn Keller, who worked with me on the episode we're going to be talking about. Hey, Lynn.

[Lynn Keller]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

So this episode is called the man of Many Faces. If you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your DATELINE podcast feed. So go there and listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come back here. For this talking dateline, we have an extra clip from an interview with a pub owner in Scotland who came face to face with the man of many faces. But hoping to evade law enforcement and a slew of criminal charges against him, an American man, Nicholas Oliverdian, faked his own death and fled the country. Investigators and our DATELINE team tracked down the elusive fugitive to Scotland before he was extradited back to the United States to face justice and to tell one more surprising story about who he really is. Okay. Let's talk dateline. Lynn, A big question is, and because it's going back now, is how did we get. You and I both just became very interested in this story together.

[Lynn Keller]

I feel like you emailed me a link to the story.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay.

[Lynn Keller]

And we just kept talking about how crazy it was. And then our affiliate in Rhode island in Providence interviewed him. And we're like, oh, we want to do that, too. And so I reached out to that reporter. He gave us Nicholas's contact or Arthur's contact.

[Andrea Canning]

Arthur.

[Lynn Keller]

Yeah. And then I set up a call for the three of us. It was you, me and Arthur. And then do you remember, too? I remember we were on a story, a completely different story, and my phone rang and it was him. And so we had him on speaker and we just let him talk and talk and talk.

[Andrea Canning]

He does talk. He talks and talks and talks a lot. Yeah. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but he does talk a lot. This story, the con man stories, you and I really enjoy doing them. Not to say, like, we feel obviously very bad for the victims of these stories, um, because it's awful what people are put through by con men. But at the same time, they are fascinating to look into them. Um, we don't do them as much on Dateline.

[Lynn Keller]

We.

[Andrea Canning]

We usually stick to traditional murder investigations.

[Lynn Keller]

Well, I think what happened is we got what we would consider a yellow light when we pitched the story.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes, that's what you always say.

[Lynn Keller]

And so they basically said, well, you know, just go see what more you can find. And so then once we book the interview and you did that amazing, bizarre, crazy interview that got our bosses hooked on, like, let's see what else we can do.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Lynn Keller]

And one of the things I wanted to say also about the victims is that it turns out, usually that they want to have a voice, they want to have an opportunity to talk about it.

[Andrea Canning]

I was going to say the same thing. In this case now, Nicholas Rossi is behind bars. He's pleaded not guilty to all of the criminal charges he's facing. But, you know, there was a time where he wasn't behind bars. And these women said, look, we're speaking out because we wanna prevent this from happening to anybody else.

[Lynn Keller]

The victims of Nicholas alleged, and some actual victims of Nicholas, they have a Facebook group where they communicate with each other, and they keep track of what's happening with him.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Lynn Keller]

So they banded together.

[Andrea Canning]

You know, this interview came about. I mean, I honestly didn't think he wouldn't show up. We disclose in our show that we did that interview remotely. I was in New York, and Nicholas. Arthur was in Scotland. We did that interview in my basement. And a lot of people said, how did you keep a straight face? And the reality is, I didn't. When he stands up and falls over in that kind of, dare I say, iconic moment, that triggered me, you know, to start laughing. It was. It's one of those moments where, you know, when you're in school and you're not, like, you're not allowed to laugh, and then you. Then you just. You laugh more. It was kind of that. And so I lift up my notes, and I. And Arthur, are you laughing at me? Are you laughing at me? And I put the notes in front of my face because I felt so bad. I was like, no. And I'm trying to make up Excuses. But there's no. There's no excuses. Like, it's just. It's happening.

[Lynn Keller]

I mean, that was an extremely unusual circumstance to have somebody who was obviously faking, you know, try to do this demonstration.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And he would say he wasn't faking, that he really has these issues from COVID you know, and he really, truly was in the hospital for Covid.

[Lynn Keller]

Well, then we found out later that when he goes back into the hospital, a female doctor and nurse told him that they were going to release him, and he hops off the gurney and goes to attack them. So that whole thing of him trying to stand up, I mean, chances are it was completely an act. It was not real.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people would probably agree with that. So, yeah, we're trying to book another interview with him. And we've been going back and forth, and the jail has said no to allowing us physically inside the jail. So we were trying to do either a video interview over video conference or a phone interview. And we've been just going back and forth, back and forth and did not get him to agree by the deadline of our updated story.

[Lynn Keller]

Right. Because he did say that he's like, oh, I do want to do an in person interview. That's what he told us. Yeah, but. And we gave him the deadline and he never got back to us in time. He didn't get back to us in time.

[Andrea Canning]

I would love to do an interview with him again. I mean, so I hope he accepts, you know, at some point to do another interview with us.

[Lynn Keller]

What would you be. What would be your first question? Like, what would be your most burning question?

[Andrea Canning]

I don't. I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, certainly see, you know, to see if he would reveal. So when he was in court this year in Utah, what was his line about? You know, he. He had to fake it because they were trying to kill him because of his work with Department of Children and Youth Services in Rhode island that, you know, they were after him. So he had to, like, essentially, what, go into hiding? And he made that comment about if you. What was it? If you give a mouse a piece of cheese or whatever, break that down for us. What did that mean?

[Lynn Keller]

The prosecutor asked him, so who are these people who want to kill you? And he said, well, I don't want to give a mouse cheese. And basically he was saying that by saying their names, he was elevating the whole issue. So they closed the court. And then I guess he revealed two names of People that we don't know. I would be curious to know how much his wife Miranda knew, if he would tell us, like when did she find out about his faked death?

[Andrea Canning]

I would love to talk to her again too, Miranda. I'd love to get her reaction to what is happening now because she said, remember, if anyone would know, I would, you know, if he was a bad person. I mean, and we, you and I were talking about this, like he's. On one hand, it's, there's elements of this that are kind of humorous, you know, the falling and the characters and all that. But there are real victims in this. Some alleged. Some victims. But I mean, he is accused of rape, violent rape. And that is no laughing matter. And so it's a, he's a kind of a weird dichotomy. It's one of those ones you're sort of confused to how you should react to this man. Right. And how you should talk about him. It's very like I've never really encountered someone like him.

[Lynn Keller]

That reporter in Scotland that you interviewed, she said, I've been a journalist for 30 years, I've never met anyone like him.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Lynn Keller]

So it's across the board, we're all feeling the same.

[Andrea Canning]

And it goes to the title of the show, the man of Many Faces. Right. So maybe there is, is one man that you laugh at and then there's one man that you're scared of and you know, it's.

[Lynn Keller]

And one man you feel sorry for because he had a terrible upbringing, terrible childhood, you know.

[Andrea Canning]

Absolutely. When we get back, a bonus clip with a local pub owner who saw the con man from behind the bar.

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Lynn Keller]

I don't drink at all until 4:00.

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[Andrea Canning]

What do you think about his voice? Do you think the like talking like that? Do you think that that could be real, that that's a side effect of COVID or do you think that that's a put on voice and that the moment the cameras go away, he talks to Miranda normally?

[Lynn Keller]

Yeah. So when he did the interview with you and he was in Scotland, I believe that some of it was true and some of it was a little bit put on because he really did want to communicate his side to you. And sometimes you just couldn't understand him. And so you turn to Miranda and say, could you basically tell me what he just said? But that stuttering thing seemed, that seemed put on to me. But even today he has that. His voice has definitely been affected and maybe that's from having oxygen going constantly that that could also affect your vocal cords. I don't know.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, it's, you know, when we talk about this man of many faces and, you know, he had to really keep up the accents and like, you know, his profession and all, like different people that he spoke. Maybe he was different things. We have a clip with a pub owner we sat down with in Glasgow who shared an Arthur Knight story. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

[Pub Owner]

So in the UK we have a dish called coronation chicken, Right. Which is a standard thing for buffets at weddings or bowling clubs and stuff like that. And we were having coronation chicken for lunch one day and I had some extra wraps and I asked him if he wanted a coronation chicken wrap. You know, we're kind of like that and here, quite friendly, quite open. And he didn't know what coronation chicken was now.

[Andrea Canning]

So that was odd for you?

[Pub Owner]

Well, not at the time. At the time I'm just thinking, oh, you know, old money guy. I don't know what they have at the buffets, you know, but coronation chicken is, is, is like sausage rolls or whatever at a Buffet or sandwiches or whatever, you know, so that, with hindsight, that, that, that's strange that he wouldn't know what that was.

[Andrea Canning]

You know, most people from this area would know. Or Great Britain.

[Pub Owner]

Yeah, most people in the UK would be aware of what coronation chicken is. Yeah, he wasn't. So, you know, with hindsight that, you know, that was his. That was his mask slipping again, you.

[Andrea Canning]

Know, so you had his name slipped, his American accent would occasionally slip and he didn't know what coronation chicken was.

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[Andrea Canning]

And the case is cracked with the pav.

[Lynn Keller]

The case is cracked. I actually looked up what coronation chicken is, and it's spicy with dried apricots and curry, cumin, turmeric, ginger and other spices.

[Andrea Canning]

That sounds kind of good, actually.

[Lynn Keller]

And it does.

[Andrea Canning]

And it was trivia here for all our listeners who saw the episode. Where was the other chicken mentioned? Quick, think about it. Think about it. Champagne chicken. Champagne chicken.

[Lynn Keller]

Miranda served it to Jane McSorley. The reporter.

[Andrea Canning]

The reporter. Yeah, the champagne chicken. So there you go. Two chicken references in one Dateline. Before we get to the social media comments and questions, you know, I wanted to point out how just how strong Mary was, you know, for coming to Utah from Ohio to. She was planning to face him. And we were told he was going to be in court and his name was even on the door in the, you know, the docket listing as in person. And then he was unfortunately over video. But, you know, good for Mary for coming to face him. And unfortunately, Katherine Heckendorn would have come as well, but she had just given birth to a baby. So, like, I know you were impressed, Lynne, by Mary and her, you know, her talking, approaching the prosecutor and saying, I'm here if you need anything, if there's a sentencing phase or anything like that.

[Lynn Keller]

Yeah. When we were sitting in the courtroom, I saw who the prosecutor was, and they were talking to his attorney. And so I pointed him out to Mary. I said, you know, that's the prosecutor there. And within minutes, I see her get up, go over, and she introduced herself and the prosecutor took her information so that if there's a sentencing, she would have a chance to talk to the judge, which is amazing. And I also remember when she was doing the interview with you this time, she said, he messed with the wrong girl. And I thought, yes, he did. I love that so many of the. Of his alleged victims, they were too afraid of him, and they didn't. They didn't pursue it. But she was. She was not backing down.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, she didn't back down. And then. And Then, of course, that's the whole reason that the. This international manhunt was sparked, because she, because of what she did, he had to register as a sex offender. He had to give up his DNA. And then the prosecutor in Utah, David Levitt, testing the rape kits. There you go. There's a hit. There's a hit in Ohio. And that is all because of Mary.

[Lynn Keller]

Yeah. And it was like nine or ten years later that they. That had happened.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. So kudos to Mary, kudos to Katherine, who survived and is doing great. And also David Levitt, the former prosecutor, for wanting to test those rape kits. On the podcast, I do Dateline, True Crime Weekly, the other podcast. We hear about all these untested rape kits all over the country. And it's sad because each one of those kits represents a woman who says that she was sexually assaulted. And why is it not having its due? Why are. Why are we not bringing these attackers to justice? So it certainly sparked one of the most unusual stories we've ever done. But also just to talk about untested rape kits, it is such a big deal in this country. And so hopefully that discussion will continue and more departments around the country will pay more attention to that and take that seriously. If he did, in fact commit these rape crimes in Utah, then sometimes being convicted for another person's crime can speak for all. If he is sentenced to prison, maybe it's not perfect justice, but we see these in datelines where the victims say, look, I just want him to be behind bars. I just want it so he can't hurt anyone else. And that's what I hope you know, if he is convicted of these crimes, that that's what will give her some peace. All right, up next, your questions from social media.

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Andrea Canning]

And I love the color. We are back, and one of the biggest questions from social media was why didn't the Scottish court test Nicholas's DNA to confirm his identity? We heard that over and over again.

[Lynn Keller]

Yes. And in this sentencing, the judge in Scotland, he actually sort of reprimanded the prosecution saying, you know, why was this not. Why did they not test his DNA? It was, you know, it was a rhetorical thing. So the prosecutor didn't respond. So we don't know. We don't know what it is. I would imagine, based on your interview with Arthur, is that he was making it so difficult, the whole DNA. And so they figured, let's just go with the fingerprints and the tattoos. But they weren't able to use those until he attacked the doctor because for that charge, they were able to take all that information and then that's how they presented it to the court.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, even when we were in Scotland, remember, we went to the hearing and he was a no show because he was becoming increasingly difficult to get him out of the cell and like into the transport van or whatever to get him to the courthouse. That became a real problem.

[Lynn Keller]

He's doing that here in the US Too. He's doing the same thing.

[Andrea Canning]

And back to the DNA. So when, when Nicholas got back to the U.S. the prosecutor was finally able to test the DNA, and it was, in fact, Nicholas. It was, it was a match, they say.

[Lynn Keller]

Well, they, the investigator testified that they did test his DNA and it was, in fact Nicholas Rossi, Ale Verdean.

[Andrea Canning]

There were a lot of questions about the photo of Nicholas in the hospital while he's in a coma. Why was he wearing glasses if he was in a coma? Wow.

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[Andrea Canning]

I didn't even notice that, actually.

[Lynn Keller]

I don't think, I don't think he's in a coma at that moment. Okay. He's in dire straits, but I think he's out of the coma at that point.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, okay. Okay. Psy. Professor23 on Facebook said, wife Miranda, obstructing justice and harboring a fugitive, to name a few. Those are. Okay, that's this. That's this user's allegation. She has not been convicted of a crime or charged with a crime. This user's husband said, she's Scotland's problem now. So the question is, will Miranda face any charges?

[Lynn Keller]

I don't think so. I mean, they would have to prove that she knew that he was a fugitive, which we don't know that she knows that.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So until she says it, I mean.

[Lynn Keller]

Yeah, I think it would be very hard to prosecute her. Plus, Scotland, I feel like it's just like, yeah, your problem.

[Andrea Canning]

They're kind of done with it. But it does actually open up that question of Miranda. You know, we talked about it earlier. Did Miranda. What did she know. Not know. As far as Nicholas's other identity, you know, that he's an American. You know, there's a good chance she probably did know. If he was. If he was doing this on purpose to save his life, as he says, that people were after him, he probably would tell his wife. Right. That.

[Lynn Keller]

Or maybe that's what he said. He said, I'm. I'm pretending. Not that I'm a fugitive from justice, but I'm pretending to be somebody else because there are people who want to kill me. So then she would. She'd have no culpability there.

[Andrea Canning]

Right. And again, we don't. We don't know this. We're speculating. We have absolutely no idea. This is just sort of based on covering the story for a long time together. Cynthia Perna Tulin on Facebook said about Nicholas should have used his smarts for good and not the evil he unleashed on everyone.

[Lynn Keller]

I thought that. I've thought that many times because there was a part of him that wanted to do that. You know, he really did want to change the law because when he was in the foster care system, he was in this system where they would put him in a different house every single night. Like, how is a child supposed to flourish in a situation like that? And that was one of the things he was trying to change. Yeah, it's a shame that he couldn't have taken all of his smarts and energy and just kept on that path. But, yeah, absolutely, he was the victim of abuse himself. So it was a challenge. It is a challenge.

[Andrea Canning]

So the prosecutor in Utah has offered him a plea deal. He's been given some time to think it over if he decides to go to trial. There could be two trials, Lyn, do we know the maximum sentence he's facing?

[Lynn Keller]

It's five to life. That's.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow. Okay.

[Lynn Keller]

If you're convicted, it's five to life. So that every five years you'd have a chance to get out, I guess.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Okay. So this plea deal sounds like a no brainer unless he wants to roll the dice with a judge or a jury.

[Lynn Keller]

Well, we know that he's a very, he has very strong convictions, so he'd have to admit that he raped these two women.

[Andrea Canning]

Lynn, thank you so much for this kind of special edition of talking dateline. I think it was fun having me. Yeah, it was fun talking with you since we've been on this journ, this bizarre journey. So look forward to continuing to follow this story in 2025 as we see how it unfolds and you know, what happens to Nicholas and getting another interview.

[Lynn Keller]

I was thinking the same thing. Another interview.

[Andrea Canning]

Are you listening? Are you listening? Thank you. That's it for talking DATELINE this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can reach us 24. 7 on social media @datelinenbc. And be sure to check out Josh's new original podcast, Deadly Mirage. Episodes 1 to 5 are out now and the final episode will be released Thursday. For those who have been waiting to binge the series, DATELINE Premium subscribers can listen to all six episodes now ad free. And of course, we'll see you Fridays on DATELINE on NBC. Thanks for listening.

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