Talking Dateline: The Professor & The Poet

Summary

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Dateline NBC — Talking Dateline: The Professor & The Poet

Aired: March 11, 2026
Host: Keith Morrison
Guest: Josh Mankiewicz (episode reporter), Rachel White (Dateline producer)

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Overview of Episode Theme

This episode dives into the behind-the-scenes of the Dateline story "The Professor & The Poet," centered on the true-crime investigation involving Sue Marcum, a respected university professor, and her complicated, ultimately fatal relationship with Jorge Landeros—a yoga instructor and self-styled poet. The discussion explores the psychology of both victim and perpetrator, the quirks of investigative work, and how close relationships can turn tragically wrong. The episode also includes a social media Q&A segment with producer Rachel White.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Sue Marcum’s Blind Spot – The Victim’s Psychology

• Victim Profile:

  • Sue Marcum was described as "smart, accomplished, together... no pushover" ([02:04], Josh Mankiewicz).
  • Despite her strengths, she developed a “blind spot” for Jorge Landeros, her Spanish teacher-turned-yoga instructor and eventual love interest.
  • Their relationship was mostly one-sided; Sue was more invested than Jorge ever was ([02:30]).

  “She recognized that the relationship was all one way, that he was never gonna return her affection. But many people would stop at that point... She could not stop."
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([02:21])

• Isolation:

  • Sue began to withdraw details of this relationship from friends, anticipating their concern or disapproval ([03:38]).
  • Friends later regretted not being more forceful or involved.

  "She stopped talking to her friends about it because she knew what the reaction was going to be."
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([03:38])

The Suspect – Jorge Landeros and His Double Life

• Perpetrator Profile:

  • Landeros was outwardly charming, intelligent, and even a published poet.
  • He had a pattern of attracting women, filling emotional voids, and was later shown to have a violent, controlling side.

  "They're able to attract women, maybe, as you say, bright, smart women... They know how to fill a gap in a person's life."
  — Keith Morrison ([03:11])

• After the Crime:

  • Landeros tried to cover up the murder by moving Marcum’s car, staging a theft ([05:30]).
  • Investigation included a red herring: another man initially suspected because he’d stolen the car, not committed the murder.

The Neighborhood – Reporter’s Personal Connection

• Josh has a personal history with Montgomery County, Maryland, the crime scene:
  • Grew up in the same neighborhood, covered it as a TV reporter, and felt a deep, strange connection returning for this story ([06:45], [07:47]).
  • Keith notes the almost "old-fashioned British detective story" air about Josh returning home to solve a murder ([08:29]).

Landeros as a Fugitive & Poet

• While on the run, Landeros published poetry about being pursued by authorities ([11:18]).

  • His verses contained references to the FBI chasing him, suggesting either daring or denial.

  "You don’t often see fugitives from the FBI write poems about being pursued by the FBI."
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([11:47])

• He taunted police during communication, at one point inviting would-be interviewers to “bring your Kevlar”—a not-so-subtle hint about his awareness of the cat-and-mouse game ([11:50]).

His Arrest & Psychological Observations

• Landeros was arrested in Mexico, nonchalantly picked up while walking for a soda ([12:49]).

• Behavioral notes post-arrest:

  • Landeros displayed calm, even slept on the plane during extradition ([13:54]).
  • Contrasts with the high agitation innocence usually brings, per police insight.

  “Innocent people are climbing the walls… Guilty people … can doze off.”
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([13:54])

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Voices of Survivors – Rocio’s Perspective

Rocio’s Experience with Landeros

• Girlfriend after Sue, met in Mexico through yoga ([14:46]).
• Described initial charm that devolved into control, abuse, and eventual separation:
  • Emotional abuse, physical aggression (notably choking during sex), and isolation tactics ([15:27]).

“She says… he was very sweet to me, and he was very interested in me. And then things change… She says during sex, he would choke her in a way she found particularly alarming.”
— Josh Mankiewicz ([14:49]-[15:27])

• Rocio ultimately got an order of protection and was praised for her bravery in coming forward once she realized there was a dangerous pattern ([16:19]).

“I thought that this person was having a serial conduct, and maybe my experience could help to prove that.”
— Rocio ([16:26])

• The hosts underscore the importance of not letting isolation happen and listening to friends’ concerns with relationships ([17:34]).

Key Takeaway

When a relationship grows isolating and friends are shut out, that’s “the biggest red flag of all” ([17:58]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Sue’s vulnerability:

  "She was no pushover, but she had a blind spot.”
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([02:04])

• On the perpetrator’s dual persona:

  "They're able to attract women... who are nevertheless, they know how to fill a gap in a person's life."
  — Keith Morrison ([03:11])

• On the poetry:

  “Very, very purple prosy, let me just say. But… he wrote poems… while he was on the run… about being pursued by the FBI.”
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([11:18])

• On red flags:

  "When somebody [is] trying to isolate you… that is a giant red flag, and you should not do that. Talk to your friends.”
  — Josh Mankiewicz ([17:58])

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Introducing the Story and Main Characters: [01:08]–[02:50]
• Sue Marcum’s Relationship and Blind Spots: [02:04]–[03:38]
• On Landeros’ Motives and Post-Crime Actions: [04:59]–[05:59]
• Personal Connection to Montgomery County: [06:45]–[08:29]
• Fugitive’s Poetry: [11:09]–[11:47]
• Arrest and the Nature of Guilt: [13:31]–[14:38]
• Rocio’s Story & Interview Clip: [14:38]–[17:27]
• Red Flags and Relationship Advice: [17:27]–[18:04]

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Social Media Q&A with Rachel White (Producer)

(Starts at [23:12])

• Why didn’t Sue’s friends warn police about Jorge sooner?

  • Friends thought the relationship had ended years prior; surprised at ongoing contact ([23:49]).

• Location of team’s photo in Mexico:

  • Mexico City, not Juarez; team was filming B-roll ([24:44]).

• On Yoga Instructors as Perpetrators:

  • Perceived as trustworthy, but several recent cases involve yoga teachers as perpetrators ([25:52]).
  • Discussion on whether certain professions attract people with hidden motives ([26:14]).

• Did Landeros attempt to claim life insurance?

  • No; attorneys say he never tried ([27:30]).

• On Sue’s personality and resonance:

  • She was greatly loved, made accounting fun, and had a rich, full social circle ([27:49], [28:39]).

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Listener Question Highlight

• Keith Morrison’s Pronunciation:
  • A listener asks about Keith’s unique pronunciation of "macabre" ([29:42]); Keith humorously attributes it to Canadian upbringing.

"Putting the -re at the end is something I grew up with. So my mother was always a stickler about pronouncing all syllables of words..."
— Keith Morrison ([30:19])

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Overall Tone

Conversational, with the signature Dateline blend of wry humor, empathy for victims, and an eye for the macabre details of human behavior. The hosts bounce between serious analysis and lighter banter, engaging listeners whether or not they've heard the original true-crime story.

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Takeaway Messages

• Even the brightest and most accomplished can fall victim to predatory, manipulative personalities.
• Isolation from friends and family in intimate relationships is one of the starkest warning signs.
• People in positions of perceived trust (teachers, instructors) can sometimes hide ulterior or dangerous motives.
• Community, connection, and speaking up can save lives.

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For Further Listening

• Listeners are invited to watch the main “The Professor & The Poet” episode and to keep asking questions or submitting feedback via Dateline’s social media channels.

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Transcript

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Keith Morrison]

Hi, everybody. I'm Keith Morrison, and we are talking DATELINE today. I'm here with a reprobate named Josh Mankiewicz to discuss his latest episode, the professor and the Poet. Interesting title, Josh. Did you pick that one out?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Let me put it this way. No.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. No. If you have not seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here for our talk. And later, we'll have an extra clip from Josh's interview with the killer's ex girlfriend. Then I'll be joined by DATELINE producer Rachel White to answer social media questions about the episode. Are you ready, Josh? Let's do this.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I have never been more ready.

[Keith Morrison]

All right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There's literally nothing you can do right now that will upset me.

[Keith Morrison]

Okay, fine. So this was an interesting story, Josh. What particular part of it drew you to doing this?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, you know, this is a story that has one thing in common with a lot of stories we do, which is that it involves a person who was the victim in this case, Sue Markham. She was smart, she was accomplished, she was together. She was no pushover, but she had a blind spot. She had a blind spot for this guy, Jorge Landeros, who she originally met as a Spanish teacher. She wanted to learn Spanish. Then he got her into yoga. And then she just saw him as like, the guy that she wanted, the idea of the guy that she wanted. Certainly at some point they were involved, although that appears to be brief. She told other people, family members later, that she recognized that the relationship was all one way, that he was never Gonna return her affection. But many people would stop at that point realizing that the interest that they have in someone else is not gonna be returned. She could not stop. And the result was that she put herself in this terrible position with this guy.

[Keith Morrison]

We run into those characters a lot in this line of work and they are on the surface charming. They're able to. Some attract women maybe, as you say, bright, smart women who are nevertheless, they know how to fill a gap in a person's life. Was she someone who had not had a long term boyfriend or husband or had had difficulty finding a romantic relationship?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I'm gonna say yes. I mean, I think she had. She had never been married. It doesn't seem like there was any great love in her life that had come and gone. I think maybe she thought this guy was that. What she didn't see was that this is not the guy for you. And many people told her that and she did. Also a thing that we're going to recognize, which is she stopped talking to her friends about it because she knew what the reaction was going to be. And so the result was there was no one around to say, wait, what are you doing? I think all her friends today have regrets that one, she didn't tell him about it, and two, they sort of weren't more forceful, but like, you know, nobody wants to argue with a friend. I mean, I mean, if you're doing something wrong, I might tell you once. I'm not gonna like, keep bringing it up. If you've made it clear you don't want to talk about it.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure. And she's a university professor, for God's

[Josh Mankiewicz]

sake, so I don't think anybody thought that, you know, this guy's violent. This guy's physically dangerous. You need to get away from it. Don't ever be alone with him. I don't think anybody ever said that to her or thought they needed to.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, they don't advertise themselves. You know, somebody who is smooth and all the genius and apparently very charming, but has a violent undertow. They're not going to say, hey, by the way, I can be a violent guy. Watch out.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You know, the prosecution theory of the case was that he came over. We're not clear why. Is he trying to get more money out of her? She probably didn't have any money. Is he trying to calm her down? We don't know. We don't know. But they have a drink together and then something happens and there's a fight and then he realizes this is the state's theory that he can't go back and they start physically battling and he's much bigger and stronger than she is. Did he go over there to kill her? Not clear. Not clear.

[Keith Morrison]

However, after the fact, the whole business of moving the car and putting into place where some idiot might steal it, of course, somebody. It did.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, I mean, indicates he's trying to cover. Cover up the crime, at least.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Oh, no, this a very smart guy. This was a very smart guy. And I mean, look, you know, in a lot of jurisdictions in the world, a guy with a criminal record who's caught driving the dead woman's car and runs from police, like that's your suspect and everybody can go home.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

But to their credit, I think Montgomery county police thought, this guy's kind of hapless and he's a thief and he's kind of a dope, maybe, but this doesn't feel like the killer. But it's an avenue in investigative work that you have to go down because you're going to get asked about. I mean, there were a lot of burglaries in that neighborhood. We should talk about the neighborhood, too, because I know that place very intimately, but.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, yeah, the neighborhood went downhill after you lived there.

[Rachel White]

Right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well. And why do we think it went downhill is the question. Right. But, you know, I mean, the cool people stopped coming when I moved out. Let me just say that it's not true.

[Keith Morrison]

So before we be pick up the case again, tell me about this neighborhood in where it happened.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

This is a suburban Montgomery County, Maryland, outside Washington, D.C. and, you know, until I actually showed up at the crime scene, which was our first shoot on the first day of shooting for this DATELINE story. It was only then, because, you know, Montgomery county is a big place. It was only when I showed up at the actual scene of the crime that I realized that it was the neighborhood that I had grown up in. My parents and I moved there in 1964, and we lived in three different houses, probably within five miles of where this murder happened. And I've probably driven by that house or been driven by that house as a kid, like maybe like a thousand times. I mean, I had friends who lived really within walking distance of there. I. Her fire station was our fire station. Her public library was our public library. I mean, I've ridden my bike past there all, you know, many, many, many, many years ago.

[Keith Morrison]

But to get back there, to recognize where you are, must have been quite a moment.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It was. You know, and also, you know, that part of Montgomery county, you know, hasn't changed that much. It was just me and my parents back then. My brother hadn't been born yet. I mean, or as my dad referred to it, the good old days. But it was an interesting place to live. And then later, later, now that we're talking about that, I became a reporter at the local ABC station, WJLA, channel 7. And so then I also like, covered Montgomery county, which is where I met the guy who's now the state's attorney, but at the time was a line prosecutor, John McCarthy. And it was great to be a reporter in the same area that I'd grown up in because I knew my way around.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure. You know, this is beginning to resemble an old fashioned British detective story because, you know, it's a reporter drawn back to his home community and why there's a murder he should cover and how interesting the murder is. And he follows it around from place to place in his old neighborhood having feelings of connection.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right. And then what happens? Well, yeah, and then. But then he gets together with the girl he left behind. Doesn't that happen? Because that didn't happen on this one.

[Keith Morrison]

That's. That's not a British murder mystery. That's. You're. You're getting all American on me now.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, that did not happen.

[Keith Morrison]

Hang on a minute, Josh. We're going to take this little break. I want to talk about this in a minute, but can we. Can we take a break here and then we'll come right back and discuss the rest? Yeah, okay, sure. Right back.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Keith Morrison]

Well, talk about the. The perp here a little bit more. So Jorge was a poet. A published poet, apparently, and which I find surprising, but, you know, people have many talents. Is his poetry any good? Have you read it?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

We did. We read it. Really? Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

How is it? Not world class, huh? Okay, maybe it's the translation that's the issue.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Very, very purple prosy, let me just say. But what's incredibly unusual is that he wrote poems, or someone with his exact name wrote these poems and published them while he was on the run. And the poems are about being pursued by the FBI. I don't think he ever realized that anybody would. Who was chasing him would see them. I think he was doing this for his own sort of, you know, creative hours. Or was he being.

[Keith Morrison]

Or was he being a bit of a daredevil? You never know.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, you know, he was kind of taunting police in the conversations he had with them. Like, at one point, they. They posed as a faculty member from American University. He was doing a story about sue, and they said, you know, can we come to Mexico and interview you? And he was like, yeah, come on. And bring your Kevlar, meaning your bulletproof vest. Right. So clear that I don't know if that was a direct threat, but it's certainly an admission that he knew that that person was not a reporter. So did he know that the FBI was gonna see his poetry talking about them? I don't know. But you don't often see fugitives from the FBI write poems about being pursued by the FBI. Yeah, I don't think Capone penned any verses.

[Keith Morrison]

It just makes your bad guy a more interesting character. That's for sure.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It does that. It does.

[Keith Morrison]

Wouldn't you love to have been at the place where they finally arrested? Outside his home? Yeah, right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It was just on the street outside his house. He's walking down the street to get a soda, I think, and they stop him.

[Keith Morrison]

Those are always the. The times. The cop told me once he. The thing that gets to him the most about his job is he knows when he's going to arrest somebody. You know, even if there's a long route through the court system, that when he takes that person out of their home, puts them in the back of a car to take him in for questioning, that person is never going back to that place again. And they'll try to rearrange things so that, you know, the dishes are done or something so that it's. Or that the piece of paper that they need to look at when they return will be there. And the guy is letting them do these things, knowing, you're never coming back here.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You're not coming back. We got you.

[Keith Morrison]

You'll never see this life again. It's a dramatic moment.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

One interesting thing that I think didn't make the story, the TV story, is you've seen this. Cops place a lot of importance on what suspects do when they're in custody and they're alone, right?

[Keith Morrison]

Yes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Because innocent people are climbing the walls. Right. Like, I can't believe I'm here in this interrogation room. Get me out of here. I want a lawyer. I didn't have anything to do with this. Let me explain everything to you. Right. Guilty people, the thinking goes, can doze off. They get their feet up there because they know they got a long stretch ahead of them. Well, on the plane back home, this is a guy who's been plucked out of Mexico, identified by DNA, and is now in, you know, leg irons and cuffs, and knows that he's looking at a considerable amount of time like that. He falls asleep on the plane going home. And that. That they found that interesting, I think.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. What about this? I'm a little confused about Rocio. Is that her name? Rocio, the new girlfriend?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That is. That is her name.

[Keith Morrison]

Was that in Mexico?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes, that was a. Rocio was a woman that he met in Mexico. I think he met her through yoga. And. And then they became friends, and then they became more than friends. And then he and his dogs moved in with Rocio and her kids. And, you know, Rocio, it tells a different story than I think Sue Marcum would have told in some ways, which is she says, you know, he was very sweet to me, and he was very interested in me. And then things change. You know, we're living together. He cheated on me. She says during sex, he would choke her in a way that she found particularly alarming. Right, right. He would separate her from her friends.

[Keith Morrison]

He was sort of more typical, controlling, violent behavior.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He was verbally abusive. Now, this guy is a guy that. That personality is a guy that you and I have covered, like, dozens of Times that person is like a lot of the guys that get arrested on Dateline, and they're not writing any poetry. Finally, she sort of summoned up her courage and knew that she needed to get away from this guy. She threw him out of her house, and she got an order of protection against him, and they were done. And then later, after she heard he'd been arrested, she's not the person who called the FBI. From everything we know, she did not realize that he was a fugitive, only that he was a bad guy. Then she called investigators and gave her story.

[Keith Morrison]

We had this extra clip of sound from your interview with Rocio when she's talking about her struggles with her relationship with Jorge and how she ended up sharing her story. So, shall we have a listen?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes. What made you call police in Maryland

[Rachel White]

since it was so similar? What happened? I thought that this person was having a serial conduct, and maybe my. My experience could help to prove that.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That took a lot of courage, you know, to call the police in Maryland. You didn't have to do that.

[Rachel White]

Well, I think I didn't have any other choice. I feel like that's the only path for me.

[Keith Morrison]

I understand when.

[Rachel White]

When people have told me that I'm brave, but I just think that's. I don't know how to explain it. There's no other way I can go.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The interesting thing about her story, I think, is that, you know, there's the question of, well, you know, was she going to be his next victim? Whether anything worse was going to happen, that we're not going to know. There wasn't any insurance policy, but it

[Keith Morrison]

was certainly heading in a bad direction.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

But, yeah, I mean, I don't think there's any question that she took steps to protect herself and her family and that that was the right thing to do. I think the message here pretty clearly is when somebody trying to isolate you and keep you from talking to people who are going to tell you that the guy you're with the wrong guy, that is a giant red flag, and you should not do that. Talk to your friends. They will. The advice of your friends is worth something.

[Keith Morrison]

It's the biggest red flag of all.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Oh, yeah. No, no, that's. That's a very, very bad sign. I agree. Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

It's time to say goodbye now, Josh.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You think it's time to say goodbye, but actually, I happen to know that you have been a very active guy recently.

[Keith Morrison]

You just left.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes. You just left the confines of your comfortable home here in Southern California, and you did a jailhouse interview. Didn't you? For an upcoming story.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, I did.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right. I just want to say I love that you are out there and you are still chasing the bad guys.

[Keith Morrison]

Stop it.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right.

[Keith Morrison]

But you know, here I came away from this. And perhaps I'm naive, Josh. I allow that possibility every day, that frequently I am. But I went and I conducted a jailhouse interview with somebody who had been convicted of murder, who will spend the rest of his days in prison. And I left there thinking he might not belong there. No, I mean, I've heard lots of people offer their. Their claims and their opinions and their I'm innocence. And over the years, lots of them. And you kind of know when they're.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Most of them are. Are lying.

[Keith Morrison]

Most of them are bogus. Yeah, sure. This one is interesting.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I love that you're out there. There may be snow on the roof, but there's still fire in the furnace. That's this guy right here, baby.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. Every once in a while I take a walk outside Dune, you know, take my dog for a walk, that kind of thing.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Keith Morrison, folks coming soon to your local airport?

[Keith Morrison]

Sure. Right. Yeah. You know, another little interesting thing that happened to me yesterday when I was on that trip, you know, occasionally people, as you know, will come and say hello and. Oh, yes, and there was a. A group of people, I think they were FBI actually, from who stopped and we had a picture taken. But a mother, daughter came to speak to me and they were lovely, lovely people. And they were traveling to Sacramento to see state legislators, to ask for their support for a campaign to fund a program to help poor children get hearing aids. Poor children who are unable to afford. You know, they just go through life without being able to hear. Well, well, that's nice. That's a nice thing to do. And they said hello on the way up. And then on the way back from Sacramento, well, who should I see on the airplane but them? I thought, well, that's an interesting little coincidence. The life we live on the road, as you know, Josh, can be very interesting and produce meetings that you never expect to happen.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I agree. It's where you meet the audience face to face. And my contact with the audience almost, I would say, 100% positive. It's great. I always feel better after talking with people who watch or listen. Yeah. And when I meet them, they all ask me the same thing. And what they ask me is, what's Keith really like?

[Keith Morrison]

Uh huh. And you tell him he is a prince of a man who once in a while goes outside his office and occasionally even gets on an airplane, but not very often.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That's pretty much it. Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

So a delight to speak to you, Mr. Bankowicz, as always.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you. Great to see you.

[Keith Morrison]

And we'll be back with Rachel White soon. Rachel White, a far more interesting person to talk to after this.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

She produced this story and she did a great job.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Rachel White]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Rachel White]

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[Keith Morrison]

Hi everybody. I'm back with Dateline producer Rachel White, who worked on this episode. And we're going to answer some of your questions from social media, which came after the program aired.

[Rachel White]

Thank you for having me.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, Josh is in some far off place, I'm assuming pretending to work. Is that what it is?

[Rachel White]

Maybe he's on to the next that's

[Keith Morrison]

the most charitable way of looking at it. I'm sure it's true, actually. So let's ask the questions. Eric Purser on Twitter asks Eric T. Purser, why didn't her friends tell the police about the poet to begin with? Well, Rachel, it's a good question.

[Rachel White]

I think that by the point where sue was murdered, it's 2010, and her friends believed that Jorge Landeros, the poet, had moved to Mexico back in 2008. So from their perspective, the relationship was long over. And they learned that they were still in pretty frequent contact after she Passed away, right?

[Keith Morrison]

I guess. Jackie. 16, 1941, 232, all those numbers. Asks or responded actually to the picture of the Dateline team in Mexico. Gonna put on the screen for anybody watching the video version of the podcast. It's a lovely picture, by the way. And Rachel, you are in it from the what? You're the second from the right in the picture.

[Rachel White]

That's me in the blue scarf.

[Keith Morrison]

There you are. It's great. Must have been a fun trip. And the viewer asks, was this in Juarez?

[Rachel White]

So that was in Mexico City. That's where we were on that day, shooting some B roll, as we call it, of Mexico Scenics. And that's in a very famous park in Mexico City.

[Keith Morrison]

It's beautiful. Yeah. May I just offer a little compliment to Mexico City? I think it's, my God, it's a wonderful city. The architecture, the sort of feel of the place, the grandeur. Mexico City is underrated, I think, by a lot of Americans. Lisa Scott on Facebook says this is the second high profile murder by yoga instructors. I thought yoga was supposed to relax you and give you inner peace. The other yoga instructor was the woman whose name was Caitlin, who killed Mo Wilson. I remember that one very well because that was my story. The cyclist.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Of course,

[Keith Morrison]

it's really just a comment. Lisa says, I'll stick to aqua aerobics, thank you. But, you know, there's no reason why somebody in aqua aerobics couldn't get a little jiggy as well.

[Rachel White]

You know, maybe you heard this on your story too, with the yoga instructor. But a few people made comments to us, like, know you're in a place that is supposed to be Zen and you're supposed to be mindful and relaxed. And there was something about the yoga instructor that you just kind of inherently trust. They seem very grounded, very centered. So we did get that comment a few times.

[Keith Morrison]

So I'm curious about something. I wonder if yoga instructors are sometimes like, you know, other priest like occupations which tend to attract people who have ulterior motives. In other words, somebody becomes a Zen loving, special kind of person, yoga instructor, precisely because he is kind of on the hunt. Do you think that applies here?

[Rachel White]

It could be. I mean, you know, we were told by people in this story that Jorge Landeros said that, you know, he studied yoga in India and it made him want to divest himself of his earthly possessions and live in a cave. Like that was his mindset upon, you know, going there. And, you know, from Sue's friend's perspective, they felt like, sure, he was Kind of giving up his earthly possessions, his worldly possessions, but then she was kind of supplementing his lack of income. Right. So he removed that burden from himself, but essentially found someone else to put it on.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. What a handy, dandy way to live that sort of lifestyle, right?

[Rachel White]

Mm.

[Keith Morrison]

Millie Yantis on Facebook asks this question. Did he receive the life insurance payout?

[Rachel White]

He did not. His attorneys tell us that he didn't even attempt to collect the life insurance payout.

[Keith Morrison]

Peace Messenger 1 on Twitter says, sue must have been amazing, because there is nothing in this wide world that could make me love accounting. I think I probably have to agree with you. Peace messenger 1 I agree.

[Rachel White]

I certainly agree. I mean, we heard time and time again people telling us how she made studying accounting fun. And as you learn, watching our story, she, you know, took an accounting job for the Ringling Brothers Circus, and her brother told us a story about how she would, you know, explain, you know, certain things about working at the circus and how she had to, you know, figure out the depreciation of elephants, for example. So she definitely tried complicated to make it interesting. And I think she took those things that she learned at the Ringling Brothers into the classroom. So I could see how that would be a fun way to learn counting.

[Keith Morrison]

And finally, raven red, I should say Raven Red on Facebook says, I would have enjoyed having sue as a friend, which is probably an appropriate way to begin this ending.

[Rachel White]

I think that a lot of people that we talked to certainly felt that way. I mean, part of producing a show at DATELINE is gathering photos from family and friends. And, you know, sometimes you get, sometimes you don't get very many, just depending on a million different reasons. In this case, we got hundreds of photos of sue, and they were colorful outfits and, you know, exotic trips and huge groups of friends that she was hosting. Always a huge smile on her face. She just really seemed like a lovely person, somebody that you would want to hang out with and be around for sure.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, Rachel, thank you so much for answering these questions for us. And clearly you were deeply involved in getting that story on television. Good job. It was good.

[Rachel White]

Thank you very much.

[Keith Morrison]

Thank you.

[Rachel White]

Before we go, I have a question for you, Keith.

[Keith Morrison]

Oh. Oh.

[Rachel White]

Here's a question from one of our viewers.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Rachel White]

And this is coming from a DATELINE viewer named Riley in Montana.

[Keith Morrison]

Okay.

[Rachel White]

And we're going to play the audio of the question now.

[Keith Morrison]

All right.

[Rachel White]

Hi, DATELINE team. My name is Riley, and I'm calling in from Montana. I just wanted to say I'm a huge fan of the show and the podcast, of course, Keith Morrison specifically. I'd probably listen to him reading the phone book. My question is for Keith. In his promo for the show, something about Carrie, he says the word macabre and he says it like macabre. And I was just wondering, have I been pronouncing this word wrong my entire life or is this just a Keith Morrison spin on the word? Either way, I'd love to hear the debate on talking Dateline and wanted to thank you all for a great show.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, thank you for that. And yeah, I probably just say all words rather foolishly or differently. Maybe blame my Canadian heritage macabre. Putting the at the end is something I grew up with. So my mother was always a stickler about pronouncing all syllables of words that needed to be pronounced, only I would frequently get them wrong and still do. Thank you, Rachel, and we'll see you on the next story, maybe. With any luck.

[Rachel White]

Yes. See you later, Keith. Thanks.

[Keith Morrison]

Thanks. That's it for talking DATELINE this week. And remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories or about Dateline, you can reach us24.7 on social media DatelineNBC DM US your audio or video on our socials at DatelineNBC, or leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured. And thank you for listening. Looking for a little extra fun?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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