Dateline NBC: Talking Dateline – "The Ruse" (December 10, 2025)

Overview

This episode of Talking Dateline, hosted by Keith Morrison and featuring Lester Holt and Dan Slepien, explores the baffling case of Tom Perez Jr.—a man who confessed to murdering his father, only for his dad to reappear alive just hours later. The central theme is false confessions: how and why they happen, law enforcement’s role, and the human psychology behind such events. The episode also includes insights from interrogation expert Steve Kleinman and a social media Q&A segment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case Walkthrough: "The Ruse"

• The Incident

  • In August 2018, Tom Perez Jr. reported his father missing.
  • What began as a missing persons report in Fontana, California, quickly escalated as police suspected Tom Jr.’s involvement.
  • He was interrogated for 17 hours and eventually confessed—falsely—to killing his father.
  • The twist: Tom Perez Sr. was alive and well, returning just hours later.

• Initial Police Response

  • Police suspicions rose due to Tom’s behavior and house conditions.
  • Blood evidence and a cadaver dog’s alert heightened suspicion, though these were later explained or remained mysterious (e.g., the missing shower curtain was due to moving).
  • ([02:24]–[06:43])

• Behavioral Analysis & Confirmation Bias

  • Keith Morrison: "You begin to develop a belief and every fact you discover after that is fighting against the belief you've already established."
    • Described as confirmation bias—once suspicions form, new facts are fitted to that view. ([08:11]–[09:23])

2. False Confession Mechanics & Interrogation Techniques

• Why Do People Falsely Confess?
  • Dan Slepien notes that, in DNA exonerations, about 25% of cases involve false confessions.
    • "Nobody knows how many there are. Nobody knows how many innocent people are in prison. But what we do know is that ... 25% falsely confessed." ([12:04])
• Interrogation Practices
  • The 17-hour interrogation was persistent but not overtly aggressive.
  • No mandatory national standards exist for police interrogation training, unlike firearms, which astonished Holt and Slepien. ([13:38]–[14:15])
    • Dan Slepien: "There is no mandatory training for interrogations, and they do it every single day." ([13:38])
• Role of Lying in Interrogations
  • Steve Kleinman explains: Detectives may legally lie about evidence (“We have your DNA on the knife”) to suspects. This can:
    • Break down trust.
    • Lead people to question their memory and even plant false memories ([16:02]–[17:46])
  • Kleinman: "The research ... is quite clear as well. So it's a combination of suggestions that at some point some people actually believe that they committed the crime." ([17:33])

3. Psychological Pressure & False Memory Creation

• Pressure-cooker environment

  • The stress of the interrogation room, being tired, isolated, or emotional can cause suspects to lose confidence in their recollection.
  • Lester Holt: "It’s a pressure cooker. And then you add some of the other stressors and it can lead to all kinds of bad outcomes." ([19:38])

• False Memories and Narrative Filling

  • Suspects may offer details to fill perceived gaps, sometimes guided (intentionally or not) by investigators’ questions.

• Obvious Case Example

  • Keith Morrison: "This is a ... perfect example to show that how false confessions happen and that they do happen ... Here you see it where the payoff is immediate. ... This is obvious." ([19:46])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On False Confessions:
  • Steve Kleinman:
    • "Every year, approximately 27 to 28% of all those convictions [DNA exonerations] involved a false confession." ([16:05])
    • "The average person would never believe that a detective could lie about the information." ([16:42])
• On Interrogation Training:
  • Dan Slepien:
    • "There is no mandatory training for interrogations, and they do it every single day." ([13:38])
• On the Cadaver Dog’s Alert:
  • Lester Holt:
    • "How you know, how that occurred no one can explain because obviously there was no cadaver." ([05:23])
• On Confirmation Bias:
  • Dan Slepien:
    • "What you're referring to is confirmation bias ... they saw him as a suspect and it, it makes sense." ([08:14])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Case Recap and Initial Reactions: [01:06]–[04:48]
• Evidence and Police Suspicion: [05:13]–[06:43]
• Discussion of Confirmation Bias: [07:39]–[08:31]
• Interrogation Structure and False Confessions: [12:04]–[15:14]
• Steve Kleinman on Interrogation Myths: [16:02]–[17:46]
• Psychological Impact and Real-Life Example: [18:12]–[19:46]
• Expert Commentary Summary: [19:46]–[20:27]

Social Media Q&A Highlights

• Shorter Episode Length:
  • Due to holiday scheduling and having to cut to fit a slot after "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer." ([22:44]–[23:57])
• Did Tom Sr. Have Dementia?
  • No—just quirky and used to taking long, unexpected walks. ([24:24]–[25:01])
• Where Was Tom Sr. Found?
  • At Los Angeles Airport, boarding a plane to see his daughter—completely unaware of the drama. ([25:09]–[26:28])
• On Tom’s “Don’t Bodies Float?” Question:
  • Likely a misguided attempt to be "helpful" to police, reflecting his odd way of thinking. ([26:43]–[27:39])
• Legality of Lying to Victims and Families:
  • Not clear; panel can't think of a valid reason and have not encountered it. ([27:39]–[28:00])
• No One Died in This Dateline Episode:
  • Unusual for the show's format but underscores the significance of false confessions and procedure. ([28:08]–[28:41])
• Do People Survive Long Interrogations Unscathed?
  • It's possible, but highly unlikely after such intense, prolonged questioning. ([28:41]–[29:27])

Tone & Style

The conversation is frank, thoughtful, and sometimes tinged with dark humor or incredulity, especially regarding the quirks of the case and the systemic issues around interrogations. The hosts approach the material with empathy for those caught up in the criminal justice system, emphasizing lessons for both police and the public.

Conclusion

"The Ruse" serves as a “class” in the anatomy of a false confession, laying bare the compounded effects of circumstantial evidence, investigative pressure, human psychology, and flawed procedural practices. The case’s clean resolution—when the “victim” simply returns—makes it a clear demonstration of both how and why false confessions occur, and why reform, transparency, and skepticism are needed.

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