Talking Dateline: Under the Bay Bridge

Summary

Dateline NBC Podcast Summary

Episode: Talking Dateline: Under the Bay Bridge
Release Date: February 12, 2025
Hosts: Blaine Alexander and Josh Mankiewicz

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Introduction to the Case

The episode "Under the Bay Bridge" delves into the tragic and complex true-crime story surrounding the fatal stabbing of tech executive Bob Lee in 2023 on the streets of San Francisco. Initially perceived as a random act of violence amidst growing concerns over urban crime, the case unraveled deeper personal motives involving the suspect's sister and allegations of sexual abuse.

Keith Morrison sets the tone with a poignant observation:

"A true crime story never really ends. Even when a case is closed, the journey for those left behind is just beginning." [00:01]

The Murder of Bob Lee

Blaine Alexander and Josh Mankiewicz discuss the initial perception of Bob Lee's murder. Bob Lee, renowned for founding Cash App, was a beloved figure whose death sent shockwaves through both the tech community and the broader public.

“Bob was an interesting guy... you know, he had turned down probably bigger money because he wanted to help people.” [06:35]

Investigation Insights

The investigation quickly dismissed the notion of a robbery, as Bob Lee still had his wallet and watch at the crime scene. The police's strategic silence on certain aspects helped focus the investigation on more intricate personal motives.

Josh Mankiewicz explains:

“The police did an interesting thing which is they kind of did not say anything to refute that part of the story... because they thought... downtown stick up men...” [04:30]

Advanced video analysis played a crucial role, tracing a white car back to the Millennium Tower. The footage raised questions about the relationship between Bob Lee and Nima Momeni, the accused, depicting interactions that hinted at underlying tensions.

“It's like, do you see a woman with a shawl? Or do you see a dog with a smile?” [06:16]

Bob Lee's Personal Life

Exploring Bob Lee's personal side, the podcast highlights his dual life as a successful tech mogul and an individual grappling with personal issues. Despite his professional achievements, there were murmurs about his lifestyle off-duty, including substance use.

Josh Mankiewicz reflects:

“We got robbed of all the stuff that Bob Lee would have created down the line...” [06:35]

Family and Relationships

The narrative delves into Bob Lee's relationships, particularly focusing on his close ties with his family and the complicated dynamics involving Nima Momeni and Kazar Momeni.

Blaine Alexander observes:

“We heard from Krista Lee, and then we heard from their two kids... a really involved, caring, thoughtful, present parent.” [09:17]

Trial Proceedings and Testimonies

The trial showcased intense testimonies, especially from Kazar Momeni, whose statements raised suspicions about her motives and involvement. Her brother, Oliver Lee, expressed deep resentment towards her role in the trial.

Oliver Lee asserts:

“I felt she was trying to take our grief away, to repair your self image...” [14:37]

The defense's strategy, led by attorney Sam Zangane, emphasized self-defense, leading to a split verdict where Nima Momeni was found guilty of second-degree murder, resulting in a 16-year sentence.

“They did a very good job... you'll be doing plenty of that in the months and years ahead.” [17:48]

Verdict and Aftermath

The verdict provided a semblance of justice for the Lee family but underscored the irrevocable loss and the limitations of the criminal justice system.

Josh Mankiewicz summarizes:

“Whatever happens to Nima Momeni now, this trial, that verdict doesn't bring back Bob Lee and your life is split in half.” [20:56]

Audience Engagement and Social Media Questions

The hosts addressed several listener questions, offering deeper insights into the case's nuances:

1. Cocaine Implement Query:
   Amy Brownstein Berry asked about the implement used by Bob Lee for cocaine.
   Josh explains the possibility of a collar stay being used as the drug implement, though no such item was recovered from Bob.

2. Defense Attorney's Demeanor:
   Jabor Estefan inquired about the defense attorney's casual behavior during interviews.
   Josh clarified that while some attorneys might have a relaxed demeanor, Sam Zangane maintained professionalism despite his laid-back appearance.

3. Judicial Decisions on Evidence:
   Amanda Lechman De Paulis questioned why certain videos were not fully presented in court.
   Josh detailed the judge's decision to blur Nima's mouth to preserve attorney-client privilege while allowing visual evidence of his actions.

4. Physical Appearance Observation:
   Sylvia NYC noted Sergeant Dittmer's height in comparison to Josh.
   Josh humorously addressed the observation, emphasizing that while Sergeant Dittmer is tall, Josh's stature remained unchanged.

Conclusion

"Under the Bay Bridge" provides a comprehensive examination of a high-profile murder case, unraveling the layers of personal relationships, societal perceptions, and legal complexities. Through engaging discussions and insightful analysis, Blaine Alexander and Josh Mankiewicz offer listeners a deep dive into the multifaceted nature of true crime storytelling.

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Notable Quotes:

• Keith Morrison: "A true crime story never really ends." [00:01]
• Blaine Alexander: "We got robbed of all the stuff that Bob Lee would have created down the line." [06:35]
• Oliver Lee: "Very few things have angered me more..." [14:37]

Key Timestamps:

• Introduction and Case Overview: [00:01 - 00:48]
• San Francisco's Image and Investigation: [02:19 - 04:30]
• Bob Lee's Personal and Professional Life: [06:11 - 10:01]
• Trial Dynamics and Family Perspectives: [10:22 - 17:48]
• Verdict and Reflections: [19:14 - 21:38]
• Audience Questions: [23:38 - 28:42]

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This summary encapsulates the essential elements of the "Talking Dateline: Under the Bay Bridge" episode, providing a structured and engaging overview for both dedicated listeners and newcomers to the series.

Transcript

[Keith Morrison]

A true crime story never really ends. Even when a case is closed, the journey for those left behind is just beginning.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Since our DATELINE story aired, Tracy has harnessed her outrage into a mission.

[Blaine Alexander]

I had no other option. I had to do something, catch up.

[Keith Morrison]

With families, friends and investigators on our bonus series after the Verdict. Ordinary people facing extraordinary circumstances with strength and courage.

[Blaine Alexander]

It does just change your life. But speaking up for these issues helps me keep going.

[Keith Morrison]

To listen to after the Verdict, subscribe to DATELINE Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or@dateline premium.com.

[Blaine Alexander]

Hi, everyone, it's Blaine Alexander, and we are talking Dateline. I'm joined today by Josh Mankiewicz to discuss his episode under the Bay Bridge. Now, if you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your DATELINE podcast feed. So make sure to go there, listen to or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. Now, just to recap, when tech executive Bob Lee was fatally stabbed in 2023 on the streets of San Francisco, concerns grew over violence in the city. Investigators discovered that the crime was actually far more personal, involving the suspected killer's sister, allegations of sexual abuse, and a rather convoluted theory of the potential motive. Well, for this talking dateline, we also have an extra clip about the star witness in the trial, Kazar Momeni, and what it was like for to watch her take the stand and defend the man accused of killing him. All right, Josh, let's talk dateline.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

How you doing?

[Blaine Alexander]

I am good, my friend. How are you doing?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Good, good. Great to see you.

[Blaine Alexander]

So my first question, actually, this one came to me as I was watching a lot of time in the DATELINE world. Our stories don't necessarily make national news before we air them on dateline. Right. Like our audience is hearing about them for the very first time when we bring them the story. This was clearly the opposite. This is a story that I remember when it first happened. I remember we covered it so heavily on NBC. How does that change your process, either the storytelling process or even just kind of how does that impact when you're trying to get people to do interviews with you?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, it makes booking interviews a little more difficult because when you're the only people covering a story, it's much easier to deal with the people that you're trying to book for an interview because they don't have a hundred other requests. But the thing that makes covering a national story on DATELINE difficult is that it can sort of rob us of one of the things that we need for Dateline, which is sort of the suspense. So in this case you have a certain base of knowledge out there among the public. The thing that really I thought helped us in this is that first of all, we covered the trial and we're airing pretty close after the trial ended. It was just a couple of weeks ago. And we have one more advantage, which is sort of what you thought, you, the viewer, what you thought when this happened turns out to be not really the story that was there. You know, a lot of people saw that video of Bob Lee stumbling around downtown San Francisco and then sort of didn't really connect with anything after that because, you know, of just the general flow of news. But remember. Oh yeah, that guy got stabbed in San Francisco where crime is so terrible. That's sort of what what people thought. And then it turns out, of course, it really wasn't that at all.

[Blaine Alexander]

Well, let's talk about San Francisco. I mean, this really kind of provoked a strong response about the city. It's fair to say this kind of shook the area and people far beyond it as well.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I think a lot of people jumped to the conclusion that this had to do with the crime problem on the streets of downtown San Francisco, and it didn't.

[Blaine Alexander]

And you know, you talked about, of course in the story that like he still had his wallet, he still had his watch. So that was pretty quickly kind of disproven.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The police certainly knew immediately that this wasn't a robbery. But they sort of, the police did an interesting thing which is they kind of did not say anything to refute that part of the story, saying, we don't really know what this is, but we're pretty sure what it's not. They didn't do that because what they were fine with was the idea of that story, the robbery stories just sort of sitting out there because they thought, well, whoever is responsible and we don't know who that is at this point, they're going to think we're looking for, you know, downtown stick up men or.

[Blaine Alexander]

Something and we aren't and they'll let their guard down. Right, right.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, that's what you want if you're doing an investigation.

[Blaine Alexander]

One thing that really stood out to me in this story, Josh, there was so much video. I mean, obviously we had, yes, the video of him stumbling after he was stabbed, but the video of his final moments before that. I mean, the, you know, accused killer allegedly demonstrating his crime. Like all of these different things.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. I mean, then the police went out, they got all of this stuff that's One of the first things that happens in an investigation, they were to not just see where Bob was walking around before he collapsed and before the police and paramedics found him after his 911 call. But they sort of went back in time on the video, and they saw that white car, and then they follow that white car, and it leads back to the Millennium Tower. And the video gets progressively better of the car, like, as they sort of go back in time. Like, the first video at the crime scene is not so good, but then they see it a couple of blocks away heading toward the crime scene, sort of going. They're like, okay, that's a little better. They go back a little farther. They go to the Millennium Tower, and that's pay dirt. And you have this kind of Rashomon thing where they're walking out of the Millennium Tower, he and Nima. So the question is, what do you see when you see that video? Is that one guy who knows he's about to commit a murder and the other guy who thinks the danger, whatever it was, has passed? We're fine. We're gonna go hang out. We're good. Or is that Nima, who is no longer angry at Bob, and Bob, who is carrying a knife and planning on attacking Nima? It's.

[Blaine Alexander]

It's like, exactly like you said. Like, you look at one of those pictures, it's like, do you see a woman with a shawl? Or do you see a dog with a smile?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Right?

[Blaine Alexander]

Like, what are you seeing? Let's talk about Bob Lee. I love the way that you unfolded it. I mean, first, of course, you talk about who he was to his family, and then it's like, ah, yes, here's who he was, you know, in the bigger sense. For a lot of us, it's like, oh, my God, that's the guy who founded Cash App. That's immediately what a lot of people go to, because he's somebody whose influence was certainly felt by. By all of us in some way.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Cash App, square, mobile, coin. You know, in a way, this was robbery because we got robbed of all the stuff that Bob Lee would have created down the line, right? So many of the things that Bob Lee was involved in and would have done would have continued to change people's lives and make. Make life easier for everybody and better for a lot of small businesses and people like that. So, you know, he was an interesting guy in that when police began their investigation, they couldn't find anybody that didn't like Bob Lee. Everybody talked about him as being a wonderful guy. A great friend, a really supportive co worker, a guy who had made a lot of money, but who had turned down probably bigger money because he wanted to help people. And the interesting thing was I didn't know his name. You may not have known his name before, before this happened, but you knew his work. And inside the tech world, he was very well known. So this kind of hit like a bomb because this was a. This was a guy that was very well known, very well liked, and very well regarded.

[Blaine Alexander]

I have to say I have a new favorite term from this episode. Code hard. Play hard. I mean, it was one of those things where I heard it. I was like, oh, that. I have a surprisingly clear picture of exactly the type of lifestyle you're talking about right now when he said that.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No, I mean, look, I mean, look, a lot of these guys are just like, you know, world's biggest nerds who have conquered the world through tech. And what do they do on their time off? Sometimes, as one guy said, it's playing Wii tennis all night long until dawn. Sometimes it's doing something at a different level. You know, sometimes it's drinking all night long and sometimes it involves the drug world. You know, one interesting thing, there was a lot of talk about sex at the beginning of this case. That that was gonna be part of this sort of Silicon Valley party underworld that was gonna be unearthed in the end. This was drugs. Drugs ended up being sort of the through line that connected all these people. And it turned out to be way less sex than I think people were initially expecting to hear about.

[Blaine Alexander]

I'm curious, as you were going through your interviews and talking about people who knew Bob and also who were in that culture, did you find that anybody was hesitant to kind of dive into that?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Bob's friends were pretty open about it. Krista, his ex wife, who remained extremely close to him, was open about it. And nobody was really worried about it except Bob's brother Oliver, who was concerned about the extent to which he thought Bob was self medicating because there had been some depression in their family and he thought Bob was dealing with that.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, I think that, you know, we got a beautiful picture though, of the duality of Bob's life, right, because we heard from Krystal Lee, like you said, and then we heard from their two kids, right, how he was just this truly loving dad, like some real concrete examples of how he taught them things, doting on his kids.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Christa was not worried about his drug use. She never saw that as impairing him personally, him professionally or his relationship with the kids. And, you know, the kids clearly did not feel like they had sort of lost part of him because of that. They were both very attached to him and saw him as a really involved, caring, thoughtful, present parent.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, you know, you get a real sense of loss, I think, from, from the kids. They added a lot. When we get back, Bob Lee's brother thought Nima Momeni's testimony was outrageous. But what did he make of the accused killer sister on the stand? We've got an extra clip from Josh's interview with Oliver Lee coming.

[Keith Morrison]

Now. They had the final answer or did they? Nothing has more suspense than a DATELINE mystery. And no one wants to wait to find out what happens next. That's why everyone needs Dateline Premium, where listening is always ad free. You get the whole story and nothing but the story. Or do you? Yes, actually you do. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Dateline premium.com Every morning we choose how.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

To begin our day.

[Keith Morrison]

This is today.

[Blaine Alexander]

I think about the people at home.

[Keith Morrison]

They tune in because they are curious.

[Blaine Alexander]

They care about their world and they care about each other.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There's always something new to learn, whether a news event or a new recipe. And when we step through the morning together, it makes the rest of the day better.

[Blaine Alexander]

We come here to make the most of today. We are family. We are today.

[Keith Morrison]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7:00am on NBC.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey, guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together.

[Keith Morrison]

With the one and only Will Ferrell.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

To talk about his new movie with.

[Blaine Alexander]

Reese Witherspoon and a 30 year career.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Of classic movies and memorable quotes from one of the funniest people on the planet. You can get our conversation now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

[Blaine Alexander]

I want to talk about Kazar Momeni. I think it's very fair to say that Kazar Momeni was one of those unforgettable characters. She was so interesting and she became a key part. But it was very clear that she wanted nothing to do with this trial. What did you learn about her through the course of this?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Her conduct played a huge role in setting in motion whatever happened next, whatever you believe. But she said something or did something. She suggested a scenario in which something happened that made Nima angry. This is the prosecution's point of view and made him angry that Bob had put Kazar in that situation. Now we do know that whatever happened to Kazar, whatever it was, and that's very murky at this point. We know that Bob wasn't present. We know that Bob had already left at that point. But did Kazar, in some subsequent conversation with her brother, blame Bob for what had happened to her, or did Nima just kind of take that from her? That inference like, oh, Bob must have had something to do with this that we're sort of never going to know. The sense that you got from this trial was that she would have said or done just about anything to keep her brother out of prison. I mean, she's on the stand and she says, you know, my brother is not the person that killed Bob Lee. She said that. Well, her brother admits being the person that killed Bob. I mean, that's. That was sort of the problem with. With her on the stand is he. He had said, yeah, I did do it, but it was self defense. That was their defense was he tried to kill me and I ended up stabbing him with his own knife.

[Blaine Alexander]

I mean, you illustrate it right there. Like Nima's defense attorney, who, by the way, is being paid for by Kazar. Right. Says, don't believe a word she has to say. Don't believe anything.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Which is something you don't hear every day. In the end, the question of what happened that night between Kazar and Bob and Jeremy Boyvin is murky. Jeremy Boyvin very explicitly says there was no sexual assault. And Kazar later apologized to me. We don't know exactly what happened, and we don't know exactly what Kazar said about what happened. We do know that Bob was not present at the time, which makes that motive, as you said before, really convoluted because it requires that Nima be furious at Bob for something that Bob was not present for. That's the problem with the prosecution motive.

[Blaine Alexander]

While we're on the subject of Kazar, a lot of people had thoughts about her, clearly, including Bob Lee's family. So we have an extra clip of Bob Lee's brother, Oliver Lee, talking about his impressions of Kazar Momini.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Kazar testified she was heartbroken about Bob's death. You believe that?

[Oliver Lee]

That's when I started talking to the media. Whenever we were going to try. We were trying to stay out of.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The spotlight, but that was too much.

[Oliver Lee]

It was too much. I felt that she was trying to get on the stand and claim this position as some widow or trying to take this whole, oh, I knew Bob so well. I'm heartbroken by this. And I felt she was trying to take that. And the reason I started talking the media is Because I was not going to let her take that from our family.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Because. No, no, we're heartbroken. You helped cause this to happen.

[Oliver Lee]

You made this happen. Right. It is like she. Very few things have angered me more, and it was so hard to be able to see that. And so to her trying, like, your bro already killed my brother, right now, you're trying to take our grief away, to repair your self image and to repair your image in society, in San Francisco. Absolutely not. We're not doing this.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. Without taking anything away from Oliver, because I completely understand him in this. There was some relationship between Kazar and Bob. I mean, it appears to have not been primarily romantic or sexual. Appears to have been social, and it certainly also connected over drugs. But were they close? They were because she sent these texts that night after Bob died, but she didn't know that Bob was dead. Sort of thanking him for handling Nima's anger in such a classy way, which was a big part of the prosecution's motive, was these texts in which Kazar essentially acknowledged Nima was furious at Bob, and Bob calmed Nima down. So I do completely understand where Oliver is coming from, but the relationship clearly did exist.

[Blaine Alexander]

You know, when you look at kind of the momenti family as a unit, and I'm so glad that we heard from the mother in all of this, too, what Krista said at the end, just kind of angry at the family in its entirety. I will never forgive this family for what they did to Bob. Yeah, I thought that that was really interesting. But I also. It made me. It made me wonder, was there ever any talk of anyone else being, you know, facing charges in all this as an accomplice or anything.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I mean, no one else has faced charges. I think what Christa is referring to is not just the. The issue of whether or not evidence was disposed of, but the question of Bob and Kazar's relationship and what Kazar said to Nima about what happened that night, which in the eyes of the prosecution and also the Lee family, made Nima so angry that he took a knife from Gazaar's apartment and then stabbed Bob with it. And so that's why they say that family.

[Blaine Alexander]

I want to ask you about the defense attorney, because, one, I loved the back and forth between the two of you guys. Obviously, you held your own. It was. It was interesting. As soon as you introduced him and said he came from Miami to help with this case, I said, aha, Miami. Like that. You know, it just kind of. He seems like an attorney who came.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

From Miami he was worried when we first met. Well, actually, both times when we met, he was. He was wearing a very expensive suit and some very expensive loafers with a big logo on them. This was a guy, I mean, look, is a guy that if you, if you are in serious trouble and you have some serious coin, he's the guy you want. So make no mistake about this. They came. They came, I thought, that close to getting a mistrial in this case. They did a very good job. Look, it's fun sparring with guys like that. You'll be doing plenty of that in the months and years ahead.

[Blaine Alexander]

But it was, you know, for our listeners who watched the episode and who are listening to us right now, one, it was a masterclass in how to do those types of interviews. Right. Because I think for people who kind of see the end product of Dateline when we're prepping for these, there's a lot of, you know, the story in and out. So you anticipate what your interviewee is going to say. You kind of anticipate the arguments they're going to have. And so it really is just an interesting way of going into a conversation and thinking about all the different angles they're going to throw at you.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You got to know the facts of the story before you go in, because people, not everybody, but people, are going to try to sell you a different version of it. And that's sort of part of the job here.

[Blaine Alexander]

Absolutely. There are a lot of just kind of like still, I guess, hanging chads in this story. Right. You know, the sentencing phase. I do want to ask you, though, about the deliberation. Five days.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was long. And many people thought it went past the amount of time that the judge had told the jurors this is how long the trial will take, including your deliberations. So many people, this reporter included, many people thought this is going to be a mistrial, which would have been, I think, a pretty big victory for the defense, I think would have been. That would have been exactly what Sam Zangane wanted. Because, look, I mean, in a mistrial, like, you've already seen the other guy's hand, you know, you know what cards they have, you know how they're going to. And I don't know that there were that many more ways to present the evidence that the prosecution had presented. I mean, they, they put it out there and the motive was always kind of convoluted. Like, that's one of the harder things to understand, the forensics. They're a little more clear. The video that's a little bit more clear. Like you sort of know that Nima was the last person to see Bob before he was stabbed. But then at the last minute, they came out with a verdict. Not guilty of first degree murder, but guilty of second degree, which is going to be when he's sentenced. It's 16, 16 year minimum. I think the prosecution was happy with a 16 year minimum. I think the family sees a measure of justice in this. I mean, here's one interesting thing. At the beginning of this case, people saw this as crime is the great equalizer because even the rich can't protect themselves on the streets of San Francisco. And of course, that wasn't what this was about. This wasn't about how much crime there was or wasn't in San Francisco. But in the end, the Lee family are like a lot of other families we cover, which is they got the verdict that they wanted or at least one close enough to it. But they've discovered that the criminal justice system is not a time machine. And whatever happens to Nemo Momenti now, this trial, that verdict doesn't bring back Bob Lee and your life is split in half. And in that way, the Lee family is like all the other people that we cover on Dateline, which is there's the part before and then now there's the part after.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, yeah. And there's nothing to change that. Josh, we are going to talk about questions from social media. A lot of people had thoughts about this episode, so we've got that coming up.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I bet they did.

[Blaine Alexander]

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[Keith Morrison]

It was late past midnight when they broke into the farmhouse.

[Blaine Alexander]

Never in a million years would you think that you'd see your parents house.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Taped off by that yellow tape. And they said, you remember dad of being killed.

[Keith Morrison]

They left behind a wall of blood and a clue that took a case of double murder on a long, strange trip.

[Oliver Lee]

She looked at me and she said, I'm screwed.

[Keith Morrison]

Murder in the Moonlight, a new podcast from Dateline. Listen to Murder in the moonlight for free starting Monday, February 17th. Or unlock new episodes right now by subscribing to DATELINE Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Dateline premium dot com. Hey, everybody, I'm Al Roker from the Today Show.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

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[Keith Morrison]

And delicious and so much more.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It's built to fit your lifestyle and our experts will guide you every step of the way. Come on, let's do this.

[Keith Morrison]

To subscribe, download start today from the App Store on your Apple device. Now terms apply. Cancel anytime through Apple under profile settings.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, we're back. And Josh, we have a couple of audio questions this week. First up, let's hear from Amy Brownstein Berry on Facebook. Here's what she had to say. Hello, Dateline. I wanted to ask what the friend thought that Bob was using as an implement for cocaine. The defense claims it was a knife, but I was wondering if the friend actually commented on what that was.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The answer is we don't know for sure. But there was discussion from many people that what Bob used to do, cocaine was a collar stay, one of those little plastic things that fits inside your shirt collar to keep it stiff if you're wearing it with a tie. And that that would have been about the right size to be the object shown in the video. By the way, I believe that no collar stay was was recovered from Bob, which doesn't mean anything because he could have thrown it away. Men tend to have a lot of those. I mean, I probably have hundreds of them.

[Blaine Alexander]

Interesting. Do people keep them? I mean, obviously they're in your shirt, but do you keep them just in your pockets? Are they usually held found loose in your pocket somewhere?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

No. I mean, I've never seen anybody carry them around. But it sometimes when you send your shirts out, sometimes they come back with those stays in them. Usually when you buy the shirt, they have them and you're supposed to take them out before you send them to the laundry. Otherwise they'll get pressed into the shirt, which is not good. So you want to take them out before the laundry. This is the vital premium content that talking Dayline listeners expect.

[Blaine Alexander]

By the way, I say we've learned a lot. We've learned a lot here about it. Okay. This is a fun question. Jabor Estefan on Facebook asked, has anyone ever said to Josh, bro, the defense attorney called you bro. Have you ever been called bro in an interview before. I. I noted that one, too.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I mean, there's a guy on Turner Classic Movies who does it all the time, and it's really irritating, but I can't.

[Blaine Alexander]

He has a right, though.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, I mean, you know, I mean, maybe technically, but no, I, I don't. But, you know, that's who Sam Zangane is like. I, I certainly took no offense at any of that. That's how he talks normally to everybody. But, you know, hey, I've been called. I've been called better, I've been called worse.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, we've got another audio question. This one is from Amanda Lechman De Paulis on Facebook. Let's take a listen. Hi, Josh. Why did the judge not allow the video that police took of Nima talking to the private investigator and pantomiming the stabbing? Why did he not allow the jurors to see what his mouth was doing in that video? Why did they cancel that out? Thank you in advance.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The video, the. What's called the pantomime video, which is Nima, depending on who you ask, either pantomiming or not pantomiming. Stabbing Bob Lee in a conversation with his. His then attorney's private investigator in a parking lot. The defense argued that that was attorney work product, that talking to an investigator is like talking to your attorney. You obviously would not be able to take a video of a person talking to their ATT inside the attorney's office. That's clearly attorney client privilege. The issue was that it happened in public, that it happened in a parking lot where anyone could have seen it. The video was blurred because it's. The judge, I think, was sort of splitting the baby here and saying, okay, you can see what he's doing, but I'm not going to let you hear what he said because anybody walking by might not have heard what he said. So that's why the court blurred Nima's mouth, so you can't try to make out the conversation, but you can see what he's doing. And what the prosecution says he's doing is pantomiming, stabbing Bob Lee twice and then throwing the knife away.

[Blaine Alexander]

Well, lots of audio questions. I love the audio questions, by the way. This is a lot of fun to hear, to hear actually from people's voices.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I want to encourage everybody to submit audio questions.

[Blaine Alexander]

Here's something that was funny, Josh, that people noticed, and I have to admit that I noticed this one, too. Fans noticed just how tall Sergeant Detmer is when you guys were kind of walking side by side, I think down the street. Sylvia NYC wrote on X. I don't think I've ever seen anyone tower over Josh Mankiewicz on Dateline. So what was, what was the deal there? How tall was this gentleman?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, first of all, Keith, you know, does tower over me. I mean, Keith is over six feet. I'm five nine. And Keith is over six feet tall. But Sergeant Dittmer I think is six five. And a lot of people on Social the other night were saying things like, wow, is Josh like five, three? I'm like, and he's normal sized. I'm like, no, he's very Josh.

[Blaine Alexander]

This was a fascinating episode and it's always good to talk Dateline with you, my friend. Thank you.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So great to see you.

[Blaine Alexander]

That's it for Talking DATELINE for this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can always reach us 24, 7 on social media, DatelinenBC. And if you'd like to hear your voice on an upcoming episode of Talking Dateline, please send your questions as an audio file. We cannot wait to hear from you. And Keith's got a brand new podcast, Murder in the moonlight, when a couple is found shot to death in their quiet farmhouse on America's great plains. The investigation includes four suspects, spans three states, and comes down to a single shiny clue, a gold ring found at the scene of the crime. Follow Murder in the moonlight now and get two new episodes a week starting February 17th. Completely free or subscribe to Dateline Premium to start listening now. Premium subscribers get early access and ad free listen. And as always, we will see you on Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Thanks for listening.