The Mushroom Mystery

Summary

Dateline NBC – The Mushroom Mystery
Episode Date: July 28, 2026
Host: Lester Holt
Reporter: Blaine Alexander

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Episode Overview

In "The Mushroom Mystery," Dateline NBC delves into the chilling and highly unusual murder of David Fouts in rural Indiana. What first looked like a mysterious roadside death during the early days of the COVID pandemic evolves into a web of deception, hidden motives, a rare poisoning, and a twisted plot involving wild mushrooms. The investigation spotlights not only a rare murder method but also the manipulative and eccentric behavior of Fouts' wife, Katrina, and her close friend, Terry Hopkins.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Discovery and Early Investigation

• Body Found: On April 24, 2020, Jenni Thomas finds a man's body on a country road in Noblesville, Indiana. The scene is unusual: the man is shirtless, shoeless, with a rifle sling draped over his body. (03:09–03:33)
• Initial Theories: Detectives Greg Lockhart and Chris Yates arrive at the scene. There are no signs of trauma, making hit-and-run or suicide unlikely. They briefly consider if the man was a mushroom hunter who collapsed, a popular local pastime. (04:48–05:20, 06:06–06:25)
• Identification: After fingerprinting, the victim is identified as 50-year-old David Michael Fouts, a Salesforce consultant and avid cyclist, remembered fondly by friends Matt and Chris Tanner. (07:35–09:17)

2. Examining David Fouts’ Personal Life

• Background: David was known for his generosity and involvement in the cycling community, but kept his personal life private. He had remarried Katrina, a woman with a colorful and, as it turns out, questionable background. (09:21–10:24)
• Relationship Troubles: Katrina tells police David was suicidal and had been distant, but friends reject this, recalling instead his concerns about his marriage. (12:04–13:17, 28:12–28:32)
• Quote: “If I end up dead, she…she killed me.” – Matt Tanner recounting David’s concerns about Katrina (28:12)

3. Katrina Fouts: The Eccentric Widow

• Tall Tales and Lies: Katrina spins grand stories—about being a fashion designer for celebrities, surviving shark attacks, and more. Detectives and friends quickly notice a pattern of fabrication. (21:28–22:36)
  • “She surfed with her husband, her arm was bitten off by a shark. Now, we’re both looking at her: she has two arms.” – Chris Tanner (22:01)
• False Accusations: Investigators dig into her past—she’d previously made false crime reports, including a fabricated rape allegation in 2011. (22:47–25:01)
• Financial Motive: Katrina has a consistent pattern of relying financially on her partners and spinning allegations of abuse. Investigators learn she stood to inherit significant assets and a life insurance payout from David’s death. (26:33–26:48, 36:19–36:43)

4. The Mushroom Clue and Unraveling the Plot

• Autopsy Finding: The only notable finding in David’s stomach was mushrooms. Police contact Dr. Catherine Aim, a mycologist at Purdue University, who identifies the mushrooms as belonging to a mostly non-lethal species—Leucocybe connatum. (18:30–19:24)
• Internet Search: Forensics uncover a photo of a deadly "death cap" mushroom in Katrina’s phone—suggesting intent or research into mushroom toxicity. (37:12–37:27)
  • “There was a screenshot of a death cap mushroom.” – Detective Greg Lockhart (37:23)
• Premeditation Admitted: Investigators theorize that Katrina and her close confidant, Terry Hopkins—a retired police captain who despised David—sought a subtle, untraceable murder via poisonous mushrooms, but may have picked the wrong kind, leading to further, more direct violence. (38:03–40:02)

5. Katrina and Terry: The Co-Conspirators

• Relationship: Katrina’s alibi is Terry, who had motive (resentment toward David), numerous unexplained injuries, and a suspicious arsenal (walkie-talkies, knives, zip ties) found in his car. Their phones were turned off the night the body was dumped, but walkie-talkies enable secret communication. (31:15–36:08)
• Quote: “It's a game. One big, unfortunate game. Just flat out conniving and evil, dangerous.” – Detective Greg Lockhart (02:01)
• Motive: Beyond possible emotional reasons, Katrina had strong financial inducement to kill David. (36:16–36:43)
• Damning Evidence: Terry’s DNA is found on David and in the car; David’s DNA is found in the back of Terry's car. (39:18–39:28)

6. The Legal Process and Trial

• Searches and Arrests: Katrina is found with $40,000 in cash, a burner phone, and searches on how to disappear and obtain fake IDs. Both she and Terry are arrested. (40:37–41:05)
• Terry’s Confession: From failing health, Terry confesses to strangling David at Katrina's behest after the poisoning attempt failed—but his statements are excluded from trial due to credibility concerns. Terry dies before trial. (41:19–41:49)
  • “Terry said... Katrina had used mushrooms to poison him... [Then] I put my arm around him... and just squeezed for a few minutes.” – Detective Greg Lockhart, paraphrasing Terry (41:28)
• Trial Outcome: Jury finds Katrina not guilty of murder but guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. She is sentenced to 34 years. (42:36–42:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If I end up dead, she…she killed me.” – Matt Tanner recalling David’s words about Katrina (28:12)
• “She surfed with her husband and her husband died in her arms. And while she was surfing, she had her arm was bitten off by a shark. Now we’re both looking at her. She has two arms.” – Chris Tanner (22:01)
• “There was a screenshot of a death cap mushroom.” – Detective Greg Lockhart (37:23)
• “It's a game. One big, unfortunate game. Just flat out conniving and evil, dangerous.” – Detective Greg Lockhart (02:01)
• “The mushrooms were an attempt to kill him, but because they were Leucocybe connatum and not Amanita verosa, they did not [succeed].” – Prosecutor Andre Mischka (39:38)
• “I just want you to know, Greg, I appreciate you, but at the same time…” – Katrina Fouts, while maintaining contact with detectives even as they build a case against her (38:46)
• “He would talk about David with such venom… you could almost feel the heat.” – Deb Hopkins, describing Terry’s hatred for David (34:17)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Key Events

• 00:57–06:25: Body discovered; initial crime scene investigation.
• 07:35–10:24: David Fouts’ identity and background established.
• 12:04–13:17: Katrina’s claim of David’s suicide.
• 15:23–16:49: Investigators uncover David’s alleged affair and threats.
• 18:30–19:24: Autopsy reveals mushrooms; Dr. Aim brought in.
• 21:28–22:36: Katrina’s fabrications and lunch anecdote.
• 23:04–24:52: Katrina’s false rape report and investigation.
• 26:33–26:48: Katrina’s history of relying on partners’ finances.
• 31:15–36:08: Scrutiny of Katrina and Terry’s relationship; suspicious alibi.
• 37:12–37:27: Discovery of “death cap” mushroom photo.
• 39:18–39:49: Forensic evidence implicates Terry.
• 40:37–41:05: Arrests and digital evidence against Katrina.
• 41:28–41:49: Terry’s confession (excluded from trial).
• 42:36–42:58: Katrina’s verdict and sentencing.

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Reflections & Aftermath

• Systemic Observations: The case highlights the challenges prosecutors face in cases involving complex plots and ambiguous cause of death.
• Tragic Legacy: Friends and family commemorate David with a mobile cycling memorial, “Dave Fast," underscoring his generosity and the community’s loss. (44:14–44:49)
  • “Somebody that would give of himself to make somebody else's day or life better” – Matt Tanner (44:37)

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Conclusion

“The Mushroom Mystery” reconstructs a convoluted murder case that is part true crime and part psychological thriller. Dateline NBC balances forensic detail, the strange use of a rare poison, and an exploration of human deceit. Although Katrina Fouts was acquitted of murder, her conviction for conspiracy and the tragic loss of David Fouts leave behind haunting questions about trust, manipulation, and justice.

Transcript

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[Host Lester Holt]

Tonight on Dave Live.

[Matt Tanner]

He loved cycling. I was like, man, he could have been riding and got hit. Looking at the body, they were like there was foul play.

[Chris Tanner]

That's the sad part. We knew we're like, dave, you're in danger.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

Where David's body was found, it was really difficult to know what had happened.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Any obvious sign of trauma? Gunshots, stabbing, anything like that?

[Detective Chris Yates]

No. Everything seemed very strange.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

We spoke to his wife, Katrina.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I don't know what to do.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

She guided us to who could have been suspects.

[Katrina Fouts]

He came to my door three times threatening David.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

David had had some sort of relationship with a woman. A possible love triangle out there.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

A theory starts to emerge of a very unusual murder weapon.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes, the toxic mushroom.

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

It could be fatal.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How stunning is it to see something like this?

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

A real life case. It's very rare.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

The mushroom angle just threw this into left field.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It's like you were watching your friend walk into a trap in slow mot.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

It's a game. One big unfortunate game. Just flat out conniving in evil, dangerous

[Host Lester Holt]

mushrooms and devious lies. Did a sickening mix lead to murder? I'm Lester Holt and this is Dateline. Here's Blaine Alexander with the mushroom mystery.

[Narrator/Reporter]

This place was her refuge, a respite from a weary world.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How often do you walk this road?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Weather permitting, almost daily.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This is your normal route?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Yes, it is.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It was mid April 2020, the early days of the COVID pandemic. The world felt chaotic, but this stretch of road in Noblesville, Indiana offered peace for Jenni Thomas.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So typically, what is it like? I mean, lots of cars, lots of traffic.

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

It's rural. It is a country Road.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Friday, April 24. A beautiful, picturesque day. Jenny was on her usual walk when she happened upon something horrific.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You knew immediately what it was?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Oh, definitely. Definitely did. I knew it was obvious.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It was a man's body on the side of the road.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Like, right in here?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Yes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Was this body buried at all or

[Interviewer/Reporter]

obscured or just kind of right there out in the open?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

He was just there laying on his side. Like you would think he was asleep. I stood here for a second thinking, can I help this person? But it was obvious it was too late for me to help him. That's when I knew I needed to go, and I ran.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Jenny took off up the street toward the nearest house. She found a neighbor who hopped in his truck to go look for himself.

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

He's the one who called 911.

[Narrator/Reporter]

911, what's the location of your emergency? There's a dead body laying in the ditch.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

They're completely black and blue.

[Narrator/Reporter]

If the guy is a male, I'd

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

say, I don't know, older, 30s, 40s, maybe 50s. And it's got a dog collar around his neck.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Okay, we will have an officer dispatch

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

there just as soon as possible.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Dispatch calls me and says, we've got a dead body.

[Detective Chris Yates]

And I was like, is this something, like, real? Do we need to come out there? And he's like, yeah, get in your car and start this way.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Greg Lockhart and Chris Yates have worked together for more than 20 years at the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office. But this was Yates first death scene as a detective. So Yates followed Lockhart's lead as they looked for clues. What condition is the body in?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He didn't have a shirt on. He had gray sweatpants on. Until we moved him. We didn't notice the shirt that he had, but he had a shirt looked like it was tied around his left wrist.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

But he wasn't wearing a shirt.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He was not wearing the shirt.

[Narrator/Reporter]

One theory quickly came to mind. Here in Indiana, the spring season brings

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

a very specific pastime My mind immediately went to. Since it was April in Indiana, mushrooms are a big thing that people go out and hunt for. So my assumption was maybe it's a mushroom hunter that's collapsed while out hunting.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

I have to stop you. Mushroom hunting.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Mushroom hunting. So, Morello, mushrooms are edible and people fry them. I don't know how many other different ways you can eat them, but they're very good.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It's not mushroom picking. Right. Why is it called mushroom hunting?

[Detective Chris Yates]

Because they're very hard to find. So you have to know, like, a specific area.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Detectives wondered if the victim could have been one of those mushroom hunters. But a quick look at the body revealed that was probably not the case. For starters, he wasn't wearing any shoes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You noticed something else that's draped across his body. What was that?

[Detective Chris Yates]

So it was a rifle sling.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

For those who may not be as familiar with guns as you are, describe a rifle sling.

[Detective Chris Yates]

So imagine a big backpack strap, three or four foot long, adjustable. Just would fit on the top of a rifle. And the bottom of the rifle, you can throw it over your shoulder, carry it in the woods. We determine it's an Uncle Mike's brand.

[Narrator/Reporter]

No shirt, no shoes, and a rifle sling. None of it made sense. But one thing was clear. Officers could tell from the condition that whoever this was had been dead for a few days. As you look at him, is there

[Interviewer/Reporter]

any obvious sign of trauma? Like, can you look at him and

[Narrator/Reporter]

immediately tell what happened?

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Gunshots, stabbing, anything like that?

[Detective Chris Yates]

No. It was so strange to me. As we started, when the coroners got there and we started to move the body, there was no apparent trauma.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

At any point, did you think maybe this was a hit and run?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

No, because you would generally have signs of trauma.

[Narrator/Reporter]

With that, another theory popped up.

[Detective Chris Yates]

We start thinking, man, was it an overdose death? And then somebody didn't know what to do, and so they just dumped his body here.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Jenny had walked the same route the previous day and didn't notice anything. So investigators thought if the body had been dumped there, it happened the night before. They hoped an autopsy would tell police if they were on the right track. But the results were inconclusive.

[Detective Chris Yates]

We didn't have a cause of death, and everything seemed very strange and about

[Narrator/Reporter]

to get even stranger.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

If somebody eats enough of it and doesn't get any sort of medical help,

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

then it could be fatal. Yes.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

She kind of clutched her chest and then fell back against the wall.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You could feel the anger radiating off of him.

[Deb Hopkins]

Yeah, you could almost feel the heat

[Chris Tanner]

just looking at her, thinking, what? These are the craziest stories I've ever heard.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

And they find that none of it's true.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

Nothing's adding up.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Indiana detectives were trying to identify a man found dead on the side of the road. A victim without a name.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Until once we got him to the morgue, we fingerprinted him, came back, David Michael Fouts.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

David Michael Fouts. So you got a name?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Got a name. We found out he lived in Pendleton, Indiana.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

About how far away is that from where he was found?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

I think it's 9.5 miles.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Detectives learned David Foutz was 50 years old. He worked as a senior consultant at the massive technology company Salesforce.

[Matt Tanner]

He was always trying to help other people in the sport.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Matt Tanner met David Fouts years earlier at a cycling event.

[Matt Tanner]

It was always exciting going to the finish with Dave because he was all grinning ear to ear because we were the fastest guys, and he loved it.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So initially, it was literally your shared speed that brought you two together.

[Matt Tanner]

Yeah, for sure.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When Matt started his own cycling group, Dave was one of the first to join.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What kind of community, what kind of feel were you trying to build here?

[Matt Tanner]

So, honestly, like, initially, we were very race focused. It was called roll fast and we wanted fast cyclists.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You wanted to win.

[Matt Tanner]

Yeah. And then we felt like there was more we could do with the club. We kind of decided, let's focus on what we call mental fitness.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Did Dave fit into that?

[Matt Tanner]

Yeah, very much.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Matt's wife, Chris, was the group's driver and cook.

[Chris Tanner]

That's really how I got to know Dave is because Dave was always, like, behind the scenes helping and working. Like, he'd come in the kitchen with me while I'm cooking for the team, and he'd be like, can I help? And he. Sure. I'd put him to work. And so he was the mechanic for when they would go on their camps. And so sometimes Dave would stay behind and not even ride while I'm cooking and preparing lunch or dinner. You know, he's in there repairing a bike that fell apart the day before. So he was always in the position of helping people.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In fact, his friends say Dave was truly a Renaissance man.

[Chris Tanner]

He had so many other just interests. And, you know, he would bring us eggs from his farm because, you know, he's like, oh, my chickens are laying crazy eggs. You want some of them? And we're like, yeah, we'd love that. And he never had children of. And so he created a life that was very fulfilling, and I thought that was super cool.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

That's notable.

[Katrina Fouts]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In the blur of all that activity and movement, the friends say David often kept his personal life personal. He divorced his College Sweetheart in 2018.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Did you know much about their divorce, about their split?

[Matt Tanner]

It happened quickly and I would say quietly.

[Narrator/Reporter]

By 2019, he was married again to a woman named Katrina. She'd grown up in a town about an hour away where her father owned a roofing business. She'd been married once before and had several grown children. Katrina and David first met through cycling.

[Chris Tanner]

He was so passionate with her, and we had never seen that side of him before.

[Matt Tanner]

And he wanted to be a provider for Grandkids and kids that he didn't have.

[Chris Tanner]

He loved her kids. He loved her kids.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

When did you first find out that something had happened to Dave?

[Matt Tanner]

I believe we saw it on the news. I also thought where they found him was like a road that was plausible. You could be riding on and get hit. It was a road that I've ridden on a lot.

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

Yeah.

[Matt Tanner]

Wasn't that far from his house that I was like, man, he could have been riding and got hit.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But police already knew. This was no biking accident.

[Katrina Fouts]

Sheriff's office.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It was late that night when they left the scene to break the news to David's wife.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Hi, Katrina. My name is Craig Lockhart. I'm a Texan here in King County.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They first needed to make sure they had the right house.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Do you have a recent picture of David?

[Katrina Fouts]

Let me go get my cell phone.

[Chris Tanner]

Okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina went inside to retrieve her phone. When she returned, detectives looked at the photo and gave her the news.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

We have reasonably at this point that he is dead. We found him today.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How did she respond?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

She kind of clutched her chest and then fell back against the wall. Stay up here with me for a second. And we need to talk about everything and try to figure out what's happened in the last couple days.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina thought she knew.

[Katrina Fouts]

He's threatened suicide multiple times, and I've

[Deb Hopkins]

called the police a few times.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

There's.

[Katrina Fouts]

There was nothing they could do unless

[Deb Hopkins]

they said he

[Katrina Fouts]

admitted it.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

We just need to figure out things with him and figure out the story.

[Katrina Fouts]

I, I, I don't. I, I'm. I don't. I. I don't know what to think. I don't know what to feel right now, because this situation is. I love my husband no matter what he's done.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She invited them inside.

[Katrina Fouts]

I don't know what to do.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

I mean, we'll. We'll try to help you walk through some stuff.

[Katrina Fouts]

It's not my fault. I didn't do enough.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Can I turn on the light?

[Katrina Fouts]

Yeah.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

There we go.

[Katrina Fouts]

Do you mind if I have a. I got to have a cigarette.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She explained that she and David had been going through a rough patch. He was staying at another apartment, and she hadn't spoken to him for days.

[Katrina Fouts]

Yeah, I physically spoke to him on Tuesday.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

On the phone or in person?

[Katrina Fouts]

In person.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She said she'd worried about his mental state that last time she saw him and that he'd been talking about suicide.

[Katrina Fouts]

He just didn't want to be in here anymore. My skin's crawling. I feel like I got bugs coming out of my skin.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Was there anything to indicate to you that he possibly died by suicide?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

No, nothing at all.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The detectives knew her theory couldn't be right. David wasn't wearing any shoes, and yet

[Detective Chris Yates]

bottom of his feet are clean, so he didn't walk there and collapse anything like that. So that means that he didn't die in that location.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Whatever happened didn't happen here.

[Detective Chris Yates]

Correct.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He did not miracle himself into that ditch. So there's no way detectives needed to know.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Did David have any enemies? His wife certainly thought so.

[Katrina Fouts]

He came to my door three times, threatening David.

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[Narrator/Reporter]

24 hours into their investigation, all Hamilton County Sheriff's detectives had was a growing list of what didn't happen to David Fouts. They knew it wasn't a biking accident. Didn't look like suicide either. So they took a closer look at David's personal life. And sure enough, Katrina told detectives her husband had been having an affair.

[Katrina Fouts]

He wasn't the type of person I would expect to be involved with a woman like this.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

David had had an affair with their housekeeper, and David had bought her a new car. David had allowed her to use his address in Pendleton so her kids could go to Pendleton schools.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Oh, wow.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

And that David was sending all this money to this girl he owned up to everything.

[Katrina Fouts]

I wasn't mad, but I did a forensic accounting, you know, and I'm like. And you spent eight grand on a car and spent over $30,000. I'm sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Katrina said he didn't. The infidelity continued, and then a man showed up at their doorstep with a threat.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Do you know who this guy was?

[Katrina Fouts]

I've never seen him in my life.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Okay. Did he say who he was?

[Katrina Fouts]

No, and I didn't ask.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Was this one of the woman's partner? A spouse, a husband?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Katrina alluded that it was a father of one of her children.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Who was she saying? Upset with David?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Because of this affair?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes. She described him very well dressed, wanted to speak to David. David was never there. But this unknown gentleman went out of his way to tell Katrina, you're in no danger. I'm not gonna harm you. My issue is with David.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina said she wanted to call the police to report the man, but David stopped her.

[Matt Tanner]

He wouldn't let me call the police

[Katrina Fouts]

about the man that came to the door to threaten to kill him three or four times.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The housekeeper told Dateline she and David were not having an affair. And when police interviewed her, she said he was just helping her out.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He did not buy her a car, according to her. And he really hadn't given her that much money.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Okay.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

But he had allowed her to use his address for her kids.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Does she give you names of her children's fathers?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The housekeeper didn't think anyone she knew had threatened David, but she gave them three names. Detectives tracked them down.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

All three males were accounted for. Two of them were in prison, and one lived in Florida. Okay, so. And the one in Florida had had an alibi.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So that road turned out to be a dead end. And detectives were back at square one on finding David's killer and finding out what killed him.

[Detective Chris Yates]

The forensic pathologist said, look, I know there's not a glaring cause of death, but it is not natural. He did not have a heart attack. He did not have a stroke. This is some kind of other death.

[Narrator/Reporter]

However, detectives did have, well, maybe not quite a lead. But during the autopsy, the pathologist discovered something in David's stomach.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What do you guys find?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

The only thing that was really there looked like little chunks of mushroom. Mushroom mushrooms.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Those mushrooms led them to Purdue University. University and the lab of Dr. Catherine Aim, a professor of mycology.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Help me understand what a professor of mycology is. What do you study?

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

We study fungi. All aspects of fungi, actually.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

In my lab, you get a phone call, essentially asking to help Police solve a murder.

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

Yes. Yes. I was happy to see if I could help identify the mushrooms.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

That had to have been a surprising phone call to say the least.

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

It's a little outside of my normal realm of day to day activity. Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So Dr. Raim got to work using DNA sequencing to identify the mystery mushrooms.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What kind of mushroom was this?

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

It was something called Leukocybe conatum.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

And what happens if you eat that kind of mushroom?

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

Well, this is where science is a little uncertain. There are reports of people eating this mushroom without problem. There are other reports of people having toxicity from eating this mushroom that it has a toxin called muscarine in it. It makes people sweat and salivate and cry and basically excrete most of their

[Narrator/Reporter]

liquid very, very quickly, leaving someone dehydrated and weak.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Do we typically see cases of people dying from muscarine poisoning? No, we do not.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So toxic, but not necessarily deadly. No real answers there. Maybe another conversation with David's wife could shed light on what happened. Or maybe not.

[Chris Tanner]

She said that she surfed with her husband and her husband died in her arms. And while she was surfing, she had her arm was bitten off by a shark.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

It's fanciful, just weird stories.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When police first spoke with David's wife, Katrina, she was overwhelmed with emotion.

[Katrina Fouts]

I don't know what to think. I don't know what to feel right now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A few days later, they wanted to talk to her again. So she came down to the station.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Glass of water or some coffee or anything.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Black coffee. Detectives noticed a few things right off the bat. Katrina liked to talk a lot.

[Katrina Fouts]

Then it tells you how much you

[Narrator/Reporter]

got left, often adding details they didn't ask about.

[Katrina Fouts]

And then we relocated to Lamira, Brazil,

[Narrator/Reporter]

state of Sao Paulo.

[Katrina Fouts]

I had uterus cancer. Greyhounds, they have their own way of doing things.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

It was hard to get her to answer direct questions. She would break off into a tangent and still never really answer your question.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina told them stories of a rather high profile profession as a fashion designer with big ticket clients.

[Katrina Fouts]

We made all little NASA's touring clothes. Last year we got Kardashians wearing our fricking clothes right now. Did you watch this video?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

I think they're a pretty big deal, aren't they?

[Narrator/Reporter]

To the detectives ears, the stories sounded far fetched. It's a pattern David's friends had noticed from the jump. Not long after they met Chris and another roll fast wife took Katrina to lunch. David had introduced her by a nickname, Edie.

[Chris Tanner]

In that lunch, Edie explained and talked about her life and had the craziest stories I've ever heard. Like in my 57 years, I've never had a luncheon like that.

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Wow.

[Chris Tanner]

She knew about me and my first husband who had passed away. And I don't know if that was a catalyst for her to say crazy things, but she said that her first husband died in her arms and that she was from Brazil, that's where she lived, and she surfed with her husband and her husband died in her arms. And while she was surfing, she had her arm was bitten off by a shark. Now we're both looking at her. She has two arms. So I don't know what the follow up question for that is. So these are the craziest stories I've ever heard.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So did Katrina just like to spin tall tales for fun, or were her lies dangerous? Detectives started digging into her past and were shocked by what they found.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

I was assigned to Superior Court one

[Narrator/Reporter]

At that time, Adrienne Champine was a deputy prosecutor with Hendricks County, Indiana. She first crossed paths with Katrina in 2011. After Katrina reported that she'd been raped by a friend of her then boyfriend's,

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

she gave him a ride back to his house. She went inside with him. She was going to use the bathroom, and that at that time, he grabbed her and assaulted her.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She said that the attack was so brutal it hurt to sit for too

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

long because of these traumatic injuries that she had sustained from the attack.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Did she go to the hospital or the er?

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

She did go to the hospital.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

She was checked out.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

She was. The police followed up, of course, with the medical providers. They told the police, no, she did not have traumatic injuries.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She said she almost didn't report the assault because of what she did for a living.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

She told them that she was a photographer for celebrities and famous magazines and that it would damage her reputation to be in this situation.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And she told more stories about herself that to investigators just seemed off.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

She said that she owned houses, I believe she said several houses in Indiana that she also had property or house in Florida. They could not find any evidence that she owned any of these properties. They also did not find any evidence that she had any source of income for the previous three years. So.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So police look into all of this, right. And they find that none of it's true.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

Nothing's adding up.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Most crucially, the details of the assault weren't adding up. The accused man denied raping Katrina and told police he had a witness, another woman, who was part of the entire encounter.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So they talked to her?

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What does she say?

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

They Bring her in. And she corroborates everything that the male said. It was consensual the entire time.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So when police go back to Katrina, what does she say? What's her explanation?

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

Her response was, I think I need an attorney.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Police charged Katrina with false informing and dropped the investigation into the man.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

The level of crime he was looking at at that time, it would have been a B, felony rape, which would have carried a 20 years in prison. This is a very serious allegation.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This is more than just a little white lie.

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

Correct.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

As a prosecutor, you know that women coming forward in sexual assault cases can be extremely difficult Anyway, there's the question of believability. How upsetting is it to see something like that?

[Deputy Prosecutor Adrienne Champine]

It is upsetting, and I think what's very upsetting about it is that you want to believe the victim when they come forward. And I think she was banking on that when she came forward with this lie.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina was sentenced to almost a year of probation and ordered to pay about $6,000 in restitution. As they dug further into her background, detectives investigating David's murder tracked down Katrina's family and existence. Boyfriend and even her ex husband. They admitted she could be charming and was always down for a good time.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Anything you want to say?

[Katrina Fouts]

I'm really excited. And all I can say, people, is you have to be there.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The investigators learned that aside from sometimes helping at her father's roofing company, there was no evidence that Katrina had worked a day in her life. In fact, she seemed to lily pad from one relationship to the next.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How was she getting by?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Wherever the money was is where she stayed. She was all about money.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

As you're talking to more and more people, this pattern is starting to develop about Katrina. One, financially, but two, making allegations against her romantic partners.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Correct.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She reported her first husband to police, saying he hit her. She pressed charges. He denied hitting her, but pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct. Once married to David, Katrina accused him of shoving her. David pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor domestic battery charge. Detective Lockhart looked at all of this. He dug into David's past and couldn't find any history of David being physically abusive.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

As you're looking at this, did you believe that he pled guilty because he, in fact, was guilty of this or because it was the path of least resistance?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

I think it was the path of least resistance. Sometimes in the legal system, it's easier just to bite the bullet and move on past it, so to speak.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Months later, Katrina told police he pushed her again, but this time, David Said Katrina was lying. David's attorney told Detective Lockhart phone records show David was nowhere near Katrina when the alleged assault took place.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

According to his attorney, he was going to fight that case, but he passed before the case came up to hear abusive.

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

No, no.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Does that sound.

[Matt Tanner]

I've never seen Dave violent with anybody.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Anyone.

[Narrator/Reporter]

David's friends, the Tanners, believe Katrina was lying when she told police he was suicidal. They never saw that, but they did see a dark side to the marriage. They remember talking to David for hours one night about his relationship.

[Matt Tanner]

It was kind of the same thing over and over. But at some point, he said, if I end up dead, she. She killed me.

[Chris Tanner]

He said this words, right?

[Matt Tanner]

And. And we looked at each other and we're like, Dave, you have to.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You have to leave.

[Matt Tanner]

Get rid of her.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then in the same breath, he's

[Interviewer/Reporter]

saying he wants to go back to her.

[Matt Tanner]

And he said, I can't. He said, I can't leave her.

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Can't leave her.

[Chris Tanner]

He loves her.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Matt and Chris looked back on that conversation and became convinced Katrina killed their friend, and they shared that with detectives. Detective Lockhart would now put Katrina's words under a microscope, starting with where she was when David went missing.

[Katrina Fouts]

I meet Terry over at the country house.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Terry, who was that?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Narrator/Reporter]

Detectives had more questions for David Founts wife, Katrina, starting with a key one. Where was she the night David was murdered? She told detectives she'd been with a man named Terry Hopkins, a longtime family friend.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Pops or Hoppy.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Okay.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Father from another mother. These are all things that she told me about Terry. Nicknames, nicknames between the two.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Clearly, the two of them are close.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Very close.

[Katrina Fouts]

Him and my dad are lifelong Masons.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Okay.

[Katrina Fouts]

And best friends.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina said she'd met up with Terry at a house she rented in the country.

[Katrina Fouts]

I meet Terry over at the country house because we were gonna grab some food because he said he was in the mood for Chinese. We were gonna spend some time together, watch a movie.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

And you said this was six to seven at night?

[Chris Tanner]

Yeah.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Somewhere in there?

[Jenny (neighbor who found the body)]

Yeah.

[Katrina Fouts]

It wasn't even dark yet.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina said she stayed there through the night. The next day, she went back to the home in Pendleton she shared with David. Police needed to speak with Terry, but he refused. So they detained him and tried to get him to answer some questions.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Are you willing to give us a statement and talk to us about this?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

My good sense tells me that I need to wait and request for an attorney.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

If you change your mind, you want to talk to us, you have her number.

[Detective Chris Yates]

Okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Police had to let Terry go, but they kept digging.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So he doesn't talk to you?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He doesn't answer any questions other than to tell me. He called me one time and told me what a pathetic job I was doing with my investigation and that he was going to sue me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Terry wasn't spooked by law enforcement. He'd spent 33 years with a police department in a nearby county where he'd worked his way up to captain.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How was he as an officer?

[Deb Hopkins]

Oh, he was good. He had a good sense of humor, but also a compassion for people, especially the underdogs.

[Narrator/Reporter]

This is Deb Hopkins, Terry's ex wife. Terry wasn't talking to police, but Deb certainly was.

[Deb Hopkins]

He asked Me numerous questions about Terry and Katrina.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Deb told investigators she'd been Terry's wife for 45 years, and their life together was mostly good.

[Deb Hopkins]

I could start a sentence, he could finish it, and it was just so easy, so relaxed, so comfortable.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Deb says their happy marriage unraveled after Terry retired.

[Deb Hopkins]

He would get very upset very quickly, and he would cry, and he never cried, you know, over the slightest thing. We had a neighborhood cat that died, and he just bawled.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It was a sudden change, so concerning. They went to see a neurologist, and

[Deb Hopkins]

that's when we found out that he had had a frontal lobe stroke. A stroke? Yeah. He didn't even know it. I thought strokes made your face sag or your arm, you lose. A frontal lobe. Stroke does none of that. It affects your mind, it affects your judgment. It affects your ethics. It affects your reasoning, your empathy.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Deb says Terry was never the same after his diagnosis. He became verbally abusive and started having an affair.

[Deb Hopkins]

I said, I'm leaving. Hardest thing I ever did up to that point.

[Narrator/Reporter]

After the divorce, Terry moved in with his friend Katrina's father, and he started spending a lot of time around Katrina. He was still in touch with Deb, too. She noticed that whenever Katrina's husband, David, came up in conversation, Terry would fly into a frenzy.

[Deb Hopkins]

He would talk about David with such venom.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You could feel the anger radiating off of him toward David.

[Deb Hopkins]

You could almost feel the heat.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So Katrina's alibi for the night her husband was killed was a man who openly hated David. That was suspicious. And so was this. On the night police tried to question Terry four days after the body was

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

found, he had a band aid on each hand and one big one on his forearm. And the initial thing that drew my attention is where his glasses sat. There was some blood that was a wound. And I thought, you know, these look like he could have been in a fight.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Detective Lockhart requested a search warrant to collect Terry's DNA and take pictures of his body.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

So he had a cross up here, and it looked like a tattoo or a necklace. Necklace, Necklace. There was a bruise that looked just like that cross, like he had held something against his chest really tightly, but his whole chest was bruised.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina told police she was not only with Terry the night David likely died, but she also admitted to being with Terry two nights later on a Thursday,

[Detective Chris Yates]

which is also the night we believe that the body was dumped.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When police dug through Terri and Katrina's phone records, they learned the two were in constant contact, except for that night.

[Detective Chris Yates]

Their cell phones got Shut off on the night that we believe the body was dumb for a period of like four hours when they had this long communication string, talking all the time, and all of a sudden, both phones shut off.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Detective Yates discovered that didn't necessarily mean the two weren't in communication. When he searched their cars, he found a walkie talkie in each.

[Detective Chris Yates]

Like a small walkie talkie, like you could, you know, use as a kid or you might see, you know, at some big box store that they talk on.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And Detective Yates noticed other things in Terry's car.

[Detective Chris Yates]

A lot of different types of knives, tools, zip ties, tarps.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It's like a perfect murder cover up kit.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yes, investigators now believed Katrina and Terry worked together to kill David.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

But why?

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What did Katrina stand to gain from David's death?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Everything. A half million dollar life insurance policy. The $40,000 from Salesforce as like, a severance pay. The house, the two motorcycles, the three cars. Well, more cars than that. His specialized bicycles that were, I mean, tens of thousands of dollars expensive. Literally everything.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

She would have had a very lucrative payday from David's death.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yes, but Detective Lockhart knew means and motive were not enough to make an arrest. To make a murder case, they needed to nail down a code. Cause of death. Maybe the clue they needed was this.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

There was a screenshot of a death cap mushroom.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You can learn a lot about a person by looking through their phone. And when detectives reviewed the contents of Katrina's photo roll, they stumbled upon one very telling picture.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

There was a screenshot of a death cap mushroom.

[Narrator/Reporter]

After speaking with mushroom expert Dr. Aim, they learned the death cap mushroom is, as its name implies, deadly. The elkanata mushrooms found in David's stomach are considered a less toxic variety. But it turns out the two look a lot alike.

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

They're both tall, stately, pure white mushrooms. Big white cap, white gills. So very, very similar.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Is it possible that if someone were going out trying to gather mushrooms, that they made a mistake? One mushroom for the other, Try and grab the deadly one, but get the other instead?

[Dr. Catherine Aim]

Yeah, I think that's a very reasonable hypothesis.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So maybe the detective's first inclination was at least partially correct. Maybe the crime did involve mushroom hunting after all. But it was Katrina and Terry who'd been on the prowl, planning to kill David with the lethal death cap mushroom, but accidentally grabbing the less toxic one instead. Detective Lockhart explored this theory, while Katrina seemed to explore a friendship with him.

[Katrina Fouts]

Hey there.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Good afternoon.

[Katrina Fouts]

So, how are you?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

A ball of stress. Katrina.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How often is she reaching out to you guys.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Oh, my goodness. Daily, Hourly.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Are your parents still living? I'm assuming they are.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

To say what?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Talk about life, living, pursuit of happiness.

[Katrina Fouts]

I just want you to know, Greg,

[Narrator/Reporter]

I appreciate you, but at the same

[Interviewer/Reporter]

time, you are getting, I mean, growing mountains of evidence that make you fairly certain that she's the person who killed her husband.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How do you square those two?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Well, it's a game. This is one big, unfortunate game that we have to. To play. I have to be nice to her and not let her know what I know and keep her talking to me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Detective Lockhart wasn't sharing with Katrina that mountain of evidence he'd been collecting against her and Terry. The DNA results came back five months

[Detective Chris Yates]

after the murder, and Terry's DNA was on the shirt that was still on the body of David.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This is a horrible piece of evidence for Terry.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Very damning.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The report also showed David's DNA was found in the back of Terry's car. After reviewing the evidence, Hamilton county prosecutor Andre Mischka developed a theory.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

So, in our theory, the mushrooms were an attempt to kill him, but because they were Elkanatum and not Amanita verosa, they did not.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Weakened him in some form.

[Deb Hopkins]

Right?

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

Weakened him in some form. Now, he was dehydrated, but then they had to pivot and. And go a different tact. And so we believe that in the early morning hours, that that's when the asphyxiation occurs.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Part of that theory that David likely died by strangulation. That would also explain those injuries detectives saw on Terry's hands and chest. Prosecutor Mischka thought that after strangling David, Katrina and Terry drove out to the country to dump his body. And as for that rifle sling found around David's neck, they thought that was to help roll him into the ditch.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

We believe is a means of helping to give something to grab onto in that part of his body.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The prosecutor thought this would be the best the case was going to get. It was now or never.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You arrest Terry, Tell me how that happens.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

So we had the Indiana State Police SWAT team descend upon him. They were trying to call him out, and it took 10 to 15 minutes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Police found Katrina driving her car, and

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

then our SWAT team took her down.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When they searched her car, they found $40,000 in cash and a burner phone.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

On her cell phone, she had searched how to disappear and never be found, how to get fake IDs.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

She searched that specifically?

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In September of 2020, Katrina and Terry were charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder with two Defendants awaiting trial in jail. Investigation investigators couldn't help but wonder if one of them might flip.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Terry was interviewed in an attempt to do a plea agreement.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He was in bad shape, battling heart and memory problems, but he told them a story.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

He said that Katrina had used mushrooms to poison him and cook them, put them on a pizza or something. David was very lethargic from eating the mushrooms. Terry presented himself. There was a. And Terry said, I put my arm around him as he was fussing and just squeezed for a few minutes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

And then strangled him. And killed him.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

Yes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Terry died a few months after talking to investigators. Then, In February of 2022, Katrina went on trial. Detective Lockhart says Terry's statement wasn't presented to the jury as evidence because Terry had been sick and mentally diminished when he talked. And the judge threw out that screenshot of the death cat mushroom found on Katrina's phone because those weren't the kind of mushrooms found in David's stomach.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

That piece, he thought, was just too far of a reach to be relevant to present to the jury.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The defense argued the state's story was just that, a fiction with a gaping hole at the center of it. If prosecutors couldn't say exactly how David was killed, how could they tell the jury who killed him? After a week of trial, which was recorded on audio, the jury reached a verdict.

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

We the jury, find the defendant, Katrina Louise Fouts, not guilty of murder.

[Prosecutor Andre Mischka]

There's the sudden seeking feeling of, oh, gosh, this might go sideways.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But on the conspiracy charge, we, the

[Detective Greg Lockhart]

jury find the defendant, Katrina Louise Fouts, guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katrina was sentenced to 34 years in prison. She'll be in her 80s by the time she's released.

[Matt Tanner]

I was happy she went to jail and all, you know, the system worked, I guess. Doesn't bring Dave back.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Terry's ex wife, Deb, believes Terry's stroke left him open to manipulation by Katrina.

[Deb Hopkins]

I think she made herself out to be a victim of David's, and that's why he started hating him. She manipulates people, and she knew how to manipulate him.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

You think Terry fell victim to it?

[Deb Hopkins]

Oh, I know he did.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Do you think that if Terry had never had this stroke, he would have ever been a part of this?

[Deb Hopkins]

No, he would not.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

No question.

[Deb Hopkins]

No question.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Deb says she's found a way to forgive Terry, but she doesn't condone what he did. And David's family is always on her mind.

[Deb Hopkins]

I've always regretted not reaching out to David's family in offering my condolences in

[Interviewer/Reporter]

case they are watching. What would you want to say to them?

[Deb Hopkins]

I'm so sorry. I know I'm not responsible for it, but David, you know, he had a full life ahead of him and I'm so sorry that it ended that way. She could have divorced him and could have gone on, but she didn't. And he died in such agony. And that breaks my heart.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In the years after David Foutz's death, Matt Tanner organized a mobile memorial ride for his friend, the name Dave Fast.

[Matt Tanner]

Yeah, it was a spin off of Rollfast and Dave. We should have called. It felt fast.

[Deb Hopkins]

We should have.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

A lot of people came out first

[Matt Tanner]

two years, we had really good turnouts. A lot of them, I didn't know who they were. And they showed up because they knew Dave.

[Chris Tanner]

They had great Dave stories.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

How do you think he'd want to be remembered?

[Matt Tanner]

Somebody that would give up himself to make somebody else's day or, or life better?

[Host Lester Holt]

That's all for this edition of dateline. And don't forget to check out our Talking Dateline podcast, in which we'll go behind the scenes of tonight's episode, available Wednesday in the Dateline feed. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll see you again next Friday at 10, 9 Central. I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.

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