The Thing About Helen & Olga - Ep. 4: Girl Talk

Summary

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Dateline NBC – “The Thing About Helen & Olga”

Episode 4: Girl Talk

Originally released February 9, 2026
Host: Keith Morrison

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Episode Overview

The fourth installment of “The Thing About Helen & Olga” moves to a climactic turning point in the investigation. This episode dives into the dramatic fallout as Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt—two elderly women accused of murdering homeless men for insurance payouts—are finally arrested. Listeners are invited inside a meticulously planned police operation, hear previously unreleased surveillance audio, and experience the astonishing moment when the criminal partnership collapses into mutual betrayal. At the heart of the episode: the “girl talk” between Helen and Olga in a police interrogation room, exposing not just their crimes but the greed and suspicion fueling their unlikely criminal duo.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of Criminal Honor—and the Reality of Helen & Olga

• Keith Morrison sets the tone, noting, “Even hardened criminals are guided by some code of conduct... But future screenwriters hoping to apply even a low bar patina of honor to the story of Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt will have their work cut out for them.” (00:59)
• Investigators emphasize that Helen and Olga would have perpetuated their crimes as long as money flowed, underscoring their lack of remorse or ‘code’. (Detective Dennis Kilcoyne, 01:40)

2. The Arrest and the Stage-Managed Interrogation

• Arrests were made in May 2006, a “well orchestrated affair,” with multiple agencies involved (FBI, LAPD, Metro Squad, Department of Insurance). (FBI Sam Mayrose, 03:40)
• Helen and Olga are placed alone in an interrogation room wired for audio and video—deliberately, as police anticipate the women will implicate each other. (05:23)

3. The Implosion—Partner Against Partner

• As soon as left alone, Olga erupts, blaming Helen for attracting suspicion—with a focus on Helen’s greed:
  • “Helen, that's your fault. You cannot make that many insurances. It's on your name. Only three. Three different extra insurances, though.” (Olga, 05:47)
  • “So really, what she's saying is, Helen, you're too greedy.” (Keith Morrison, 06:50)
• Detective Kilcoyne reveals this was anticipated: “We figured that she [Olga] was gonna run her mouth a little bit in there.” (06:27)
• Olga accuses Helen of destroying their partnership with excessive insurance policies and not maintaining “a good relationship.” (06:41)

4. Sordid Insurance Schemes—Backstabbing, Falsifying, and Betraying

• The episode lays bare how Helen and Olga deceived insurance companies, even impersonating their victim, Kenneth McDavid, on calls:
  • “None of that is true, of course. Kenneth McDavid, a homeless man who hasn't held a job in years... And according to his sister Sandra, that isn’t his voice. ...It was Helen.” (Morrison, 09:10–09:49)
• Helen consistently tries to cut Olga out of insurance payouts: “Helen...bought three more policies valued about $90,000” without Olga’s knowledge. (FBI Mayrose, 10:25)
• The relationship devolves into a cycle of preemptive betrayals—Helen attempts to remove Olga from beneficiary lists; Olga, in turn, rats Helen out to insurance companies. (FBI Mayrose, 12:18–13:08)

5. The Interrogation Continues—No Honor Among Thieves

• In the interrogation room, the women’s mutual distrust is on full display:
  • Olga: “Keep a nice relationship, don't do them extra things, and it will be everything.” (16:20)
  • Helen (trying to rewrite the story): “This wasn't our fault... Kenneth McDavid's fault. After all, the insurance policies were his idea, right?” (Morrison, 21:30)
  • Olga resists the narrative: “Remember the bottom line. I was the cousin, you're the fiancée. Bologna. It doesn't matter. It doesn’t matter.” (21:57)
• Olga laments missed opportunities to flee: “I should have take the plane last month and get the out of go back to Europe. See the greediness you get into this.” (22:32)
• The detectives repeatedly return to keep the suspects aware of the context, wary of an “entrapment” defense. (Kilcoyne, 16:57)

6. The Hunt for Proof—Physical Evidence and Surveillance

• Detectives and FBI comb through Helen’s “murder file,” uncovering newspaper clippings, obituaries, and instructions “how to off somebody without getting caught.” (FBI Mayrose, 28:03–28:25)
• The most chilling clue: a movie ticket found in Helen’s car, timestamped hours before Paul Vados’s murder, alongside his information. (Mayrose, 28:56)
• Toxicology on exhumed victim Paul Vados shows no drugs—just extreme frailty, paving the way for a grisly, calculated murder by being run over. (Kilcoyne, 32:18; Morrison, 32:37)
• Security footage from the murder of Kenneth McDavid captures a silver car maneuvering in the alley at the time of death. While too grainy to discern occupants, the sequence matches the suspected murder method. (Kilcoyne, 34:08–36:58)
  • “At about 11:50pm the car's brake light suddenly flashed on. Next came the backup lights... The vehicle moves forward and then past where the body is. So they've already run him over...” (Kilcoyne, 36:14–36:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Greed and Betrayal:

  • “You should have a good relationship with me. That would not happen.” —Olga, blaming Helen (06:41)
  • “All they're after is mail fraud… Who cares? Who cares? We have nothing left.” —Olga, dismissive under stress (14:12)
  • “That's almost better than a confession.” —Keith Morrison, after another blazing accusation from Olga (21:08)

• On the Setup:

  • “We figured that she was gonna run her mouth a little bit in there.” —Detective Kilcoyne, on Olga’s predictability (06:27)
  • “The detective was sure Paul Vaddos and Kenneth McDavid had both been murdered for money. As sure of that as he was that the moments surrounding Kenneth McDavid's death had been caught on camera.” —Keith Morrison (33:25)

• On Evidence and Crime:

  • “Obituaries and there were articles about, you know, how to off somebody without getting caught. It was crazy stuff... you don't expect people normally to be trying to figure out, well, how do I kill this guy and nobody catches me?” —FBI Mayrose (28:03)
  • “It'd be like driving over a pile of rocks. ...just brutally murdered. This is a horrible, horrible death. There's nothing instant about it.” —Detective Kilcoyne on Paul Vados (32:37)

• On Fatal Partnership:

  • “We going to go to jail, honey. They gonna lock you up.” —Olga, resignation seeping in (02:49 and recurring throughout)
  • “Life is like a meandering road full of detours and disruptions. But your education shouldn't be one of them.” —Narration, transitioning but still reflecting the episode’s theme of regret and missed chances (14:12)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:59 – Introduction to the myth of criminal honor and Helen & Olga as exceptions.
• 03:40 – Law enforcement describes arrest operation.
• 05:23 – Helen & Olga left alone in interrogation room; pivotal confrontation begins.
• 05:47–07:29 – Olga blames Helen for being too greedy; partnership fractures.
• 09:10–11:50 – Depiction of insurance schemes, impersonation, and mutual betrayal.
• 14:12–16:20 – Olga’s sharpest accusations: “greediness” and reflection on lost money.
• 21:30–23:12 – Helen tries deflecting blame to victim; Olga categorically rejects this.
• 28:03–29:39 – Discovery of the “murder file” and incriminating movie ticket.
• 32:18–33:25 – Exhumation and findings from Paul Vados’s toxicology.
• 34:08–36:58 – Security footage breakdown of McDavid’s murder in the alley.

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Summary & Context for Listeners

“Girl Talk” is a gripping, tension-filled episode unique for capturing the implosion of a killer partnership in real-time. Through staged but natural conversation, listeners hear Helen and Olga’s mutual suspicions and competing self-interests erode any pretense of loyalty. Investigators’ commentary and keen evidence-handling drive the narrative, highlighting how two elderly women used calculated deception, mutual backstabbing, and ultimately murder to try and secure their fortunes—until their own voices became their undoing. The case against them builds not by dramatic confessions, but through the cumulative weight of fraud, resentment, and the tireless, methodical work of law enforcement.

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Transcript

[Keith Morrison]

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[Keith Morrison]

It'S accepted wisdom among tellers of tales both fictional and true that even hardened criminals are guided by some code of conduct. It's an enduring notion, the idea that somewhere, even in the most corrupted soul, there beats a heart true to its own values. Even if the only unbreakable rule is don't rat out your friends. But future screenwriters hoping to apply even a low bar patina of honor to the story of Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt will have their work cut out for them.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

There's no doubt in my mind that they were going to continue this as long as the large sums of money were flowing from the insurance companies.

[Keith Morrison]

They lied. They cheated. And if the LAPD was to be believed, they had killed for money. Tough customers, these two old ladies. But Helen Golay, well, crusty cops considered her the worst.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

If she was a young man, she would be referred to as just one of the scariest killers this country has ever seen.

[Keith Morrison]

In this episode, you'll hear recordings investigators uncovered that reveal crimes as they are being committed.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

And you are a 48 year old male, date of birth 1112 of 1954. Right. Approximately five' 11. Weighed 185 pounds. And you applied for a $100,000 life plan, is that correct? Yes, that's correct.

[Keith Morrison]

You'll eavesdrop on conversations that prove there was no honor between these thieves.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

We gonna go to jail, honey. They gonna lock you up.

[Keith Morrison]

And you'll have a ringside seat to a dramatic confrontation between these two partners in crime, something we at DATELINE had never seen before.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Why did you make all these extra insurances? Too many you had. There's a limit. You can do that many.

[Keith Morrison]

I'm Keith Morrison. And this is the fourth episode of Dateline's newest podcast, the Thing About Helen and Olga. The takedown of Helen and Olga in May 2006 was a well orchestrated affair.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

We had LAPD out in force, detectives, Metro squad. We had FBI postal. We had Department of Insurance.

[Keith Morrison]

That's Special Agent Sam Mayrose, AKA FBI Sam.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

I mean, if you looked like an able bodied person standing anywhere in the area, I think he almost got recruited at that point.

[Keith Morrison]

Overkill? Hardly. LAPD Detective Dennis Kilcoyne said Helen's place was a virtual Fort Knox.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

They are little old gals, but you don't know if somebody lives with them that is a little more of a threat to you. So we have to be careful.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I just woke up. I don't know what's going on. My daughter's gonna be wondering what's happening.

[Keith Morrison]

Who else is in the house?

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

No, mom, what's happening? I've never had anything. I'm just going in my life, ma'.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Am.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

And I don't have my purse. I don't have anything, and I don't know what's going on. What have I done?

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Watch yourself.

[Keith Morrison]

Though federal agents ultimately made the arrests on mail fraud charges, the Feds did not take Helen and Olga to the Federal Processing center downtown. No. By prior agreement, the ladies were briefly taken to Parker center, the old LAPD headquarters down the street from the federal courts and the U.S. attorney's offices. It was here that the women were placed alone in an interrogation room that was wired for video and sound.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

All right, ladies, the people that are going to transport you over to the Federal Processing System will be here in just a few minutes. All right? We're going to be in and out, please. Hang on, hang on.

[Keith Morrison]

The plain white room was awash in a harsh fluorescent light, the only decoration a lucky horseshoe nailed over a door behind Olga. Lucky? Well, yes, it was for the cops. Because seconds after Detective Kilcoyne left the room, Olga, now dressed in a white striped pullover, unloaded on Helen.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Helen, that's your fault. You cannot make that many insurances. It's on your name. Only three. Three different extra insurances, though.

[Keith Morrison]

Helen, in a sleek black pantsuit, sat with her back to the camera. One can imagine the wintry scowl she trained on her partner.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I want to ask for a different location if you're going to talk. I don't want to talk. Don't talk. But it's three. Don't want to talk to you.

[Keith Morrison]

Just the conversation Detective Kilcoen was hoping for, planning for, in fact, as he told Me later.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Olga. Because of her talkative personality, you kind.

[Keith Morrison]

Of expected she would.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

We figured that she was gonna run her mouth a little bit in there.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes. The cops knew their suspects well. Supply enough rope and wait for them to hang themselves. Metaphorically, that is.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

You did all these insurances extra. That's what raised the suspicion. Stupidity. You should have a good relationship with me. That would not happen.

[Keith Morrison]

So really, what she's saying is, Helen, you're too greedy.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Exactly.

[Keith Morrison]

Your greed has gotten us into this.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

It's your fault that we're here.

[Keith Morrison]

So much bile, so much resentment. How had such a lengthy and profitable partnership come to this? Greed, of course. Investigators knew from insurance company records that Helen and Olga had been jockeying to undercut each other ever since the day Kenneth McDavid came under their control. McDavid was a cash cow, and they intended to feed like hyenas on a carcass.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Telephone interview department. This is Brandy. How may I help you? Oh, my goodness. This has come a long way. You must be busy.

[Keith Morrison]

In this call, recorded by one of the insurance companies, we get a glimpse of Helen Golay in action. The date is September 29, 2003. Nearly a year and a half before Kenneth McDavid would be crushed to death in a dark alley.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Okay, let me give you the information. This is the secretary, and then I'll put him on the line for you. This is application number GB5399 481. And it's for Kenneth E. McDavid. You said McDavid? Hold one moment. Let me pull up that application. Thank you.

[Keith Morrison]

The lies roll off her tongue. Fictions so familiar they're almost like a second skin.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Okay. Thank you for holding. And you said Mr. McDavid is going to be on the line? Yeah. You have everything ready for. Yes.

[Keith Morrison]

Now came the tricky part. Somehow, Helen would have to produce Kenneth.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Ken. Hello, this is Mr. McDavid. Can I help you? Mr. McDavid, this is Brandy from United Investors. Yes, your secretary called us so that you could do your telephone interview. Are you prepared to do the interview at this time?

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Yes.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Yes. Okay. This call will be taped and monitored for purposes of quality control. Okay. Your address is listed as 424 Ocean Park Boulevard, Santa Monica, California. Right. Helen Golay, your fiance, is listed as your beneficiary. What's your occupation? Investor.

[Keith Morrison]

None of that is true, of course. Kenneth McDavid, a homeless man who hasn't held a job in years. There's no secretary. He has no fiance. He doesn't live in Santa Monica. And according to his sister Sandra, that isn't his voice.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Okay. And what's your state of birth? New York. I think I'll just sign the application, right? We're verifying the application.

[Keith Morrison]

What did you think when you heard that voice?

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

It's obviously a woman's voice.

[Keith Morrison]

And obviously not your brother.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Obviously not my brother. Ken's voice is a deep voice. He has a good deep radio voice.

[Keith Morrison]

No, that wasn't Kenneth. It was Helen. No doubt you'll have noticed that Helen made no mention of her partner, Olga, in that call, even though on most of their life insurance applications, Olga was a blood relation of Kenneth, his cousin from the Hungarian side of the family. No, Helen Dole was going rogue on this call, cutting her partner out of the action. Any payout from this policy would be hers and hers alone.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

So it was definitely not a friendly situation all the time.

[Keith Morrison]

It wasn't the first time, said the FBI Sam Mayrose. Helen did the same thing with the policies on Paul Vaddos.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

And it was kind of interesting because together on Paul, they both owned four policies for just about $740,000. And then Helen, without Olga's knowledge, bought three more policies valued about 90,000.

[Keith Morrison]

Oh, the treachery of it all. And it gets worse. As Kenneth McDavid's life neared its expiration date in June of 2005, each partner tried to undercut the other.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

In the future, is there any way you can put any kind of a code on me so that others, anyone else has called in, would not be able to have access?

[Keith Morrison]

The date of this call is June 6, 2005. Two weeks before Kenneth McDavid would be crushed to death. Yet even at this late date, Helen is surreptitiously trying to have Olga's name removed from a policy so that she, Helen, will be the only beneficiary once Kenneth McDavid is dead.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

I have you as an owner and also Olga, and we're going to make some changes on that. So the form should come to me, not to her or Helen. These. You will need her signature. The only other way we could possibly do this, and I don't know, I guess it would have, it would be a brand new policy. The reason I asked my question about anyone calling in, and we've had a little bit of reorganization in our business.

[Keith Morrison]

A reorganization. There aren't many ways to reorganize a two women tag team. Still, in this call, Helen is working every angle and is apparently concerned that if she doesn't shiv Olga first, Olga will surely Shiv her.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Olga, for example, has all of the other owners. She has all the information on me, my Social Security number, my everything under the fence so she wouldn't be able to call in. Or she gave that to someone else and be able to call in posing as me and get all the information. So that's what I wondered. What security methods.

[Keith Morrison]

Helen's fear that Olga might try to cheat her was not unfounded. Olga had, on occasion, ratted out Helen, contacted insurance companies and reported her own partner for insurance fraud.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

Olga, I think, started cluing in and was getting pretty angry. And that's when she started getting her own policies separate from Helen.

[Keith Morrison]

It was an ongoing game, said FBI agent Sam Mayrose. Cheat vs. Cheat.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

Found a letter that Olga wrote that pretty much said that Helen was claiming to be, I think it was married to somebody and she wasn't. She was trying to get policies, and Olga thought something needed to be done about it. Like, boy, just thanks, Olga.

[Keith Morrison]

So much tension and distrust smoldering beneath the surface. Little wonder, then, that on the day law enforcement dropped the hammer on Helen and Olga, all that anger and mistrust suddenly burst into an open flame.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I know, but your fault that our relationship ended up like this. Because what you did. Of course I got angry.

[Keith Morrison]

Oh, yes. Quite the cozy confab going on in that interrogation room. It had investigators hanging on every word.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

All they're after is mail fraud. All the insurance coverage companies are claiming that jointly. Mail fraud. They have nothing else. And they will confiscate the money. What they paid you, they fired. Who cares? Who cares? We have nothing left. Life is like a meandering road full of detours and disruptions. But your education shouldn't be one of them. And nobody understands that better than Southern New Hampshire University. They have more than 200 online degree programs with flexibility that puts you in the driver's seat and real support to keep you on track even when life takes an unexpected turn. Visit SNHU.edu dateline to get started. Support is available 24. 7 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support.

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[Olga Rudderschmidt]

They can arrest you now and they can put you in jail until you bail.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Now.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Well, you have to pay us. Yeah, I'm not going to pay bail now. I asked this May Rose. I said, who in the world has convinced you that this was mail fraud? I said, there's no mail fraud. About $2 million. Bill, we're not gonna put up. I know we put up 10%. That wouldn't happen, Helen, if you didn't listen to me. Keep a nice relationship, don't do them extra things, and it will be everything.

[Keith Morrison]

All right?

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Do you realize what you're saying? That's greediness. And you had better be quiet.

[Keith Morrison]

As Detective Kilcoen sat watching the video feed of Helen and Olga in the interrogation room, he knew this was good. So good, in fact, he was concerned a judge might consider the circumstances as a form of entrapment and therefore not allow the tape to be played at trial. So from time to time, the detective re entered the room as a reminder to the women that they were under arrest and not just shooting the breeze at home.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

You all right? Feel better without the handcuffs on?

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Cause I really do.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

You don't want any misperception that they. Oh, they forgot they were in a police station because of their age or whatever. So I come in every couple minutes to let them see my face.

[Keith Morrison]

The cautionary cameos had no effect. As soon as Detective Gilcoyne left the room, the conversation resumed.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

This is only. I just want to tell you what one thing. You better be quiet. Yeah, right. But you better be quiet. I tell you something.

[Keith Morrison]

One insurance company, Mutual of New York or Money, seemed to be very much on the women's minds that day. Remember, it was Mutual of New York that had sent Ed Webster to investigate those two Kenneth McDavid policies. And it was Ed Webster who had personally delivered the news to them that money was not going to pay off on their million dollar claim.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

But who started the Maple? Molly. All of them. Molly did this. I know. So money is going to pay. I told you that will happen. Money is going to pay a big price. Now, be careful what you're saying in here. Money is going to be sued to the guilds. My shares has to be sued to big. You're suing on your hat. You're taking care of Your hat. So, what's your attorney's name?

[Keith Morrison]

Mellor.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Mellor. Yeah.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

It's no.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

No secret.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Ask him to represent both of us.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

No.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I already told him no. Only me. Fine.

[Keith Morrison]

Okay.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

But I cannot even.

[Keith Morrison]

As Detective Kilcoyne watched the video feed of the women bickering and blaming, he knew something was missing. A lot of talk about insurance, but not one word about murder. The detective had two murders on his plate. Paul Vados and Kenneth McDavid. With zero physical evidence connecting Helen and Olga to those deaths. What he needed was some incriminating comment. So once again, the detective and an associate entered the interrogation room.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I couldn't believe this morning they broke into my place.

[Keith Morrison]

Okay.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Like I said, very shortly.

[Keith Morrison]

Now, this time, the goal was to give their conversation a nudge. So as the detectives spoke to each other, they let the ladies know there was more than mail fraud on the menu.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Do you want to signature speaks?

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

No, no, That's. That's the first thing.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

No, no, no.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

That's. That's part of the murder investigation, not part of this investigation.

[Keith Morrison]

So murder investigations that should have gotten their attention. But Helen and Olga didn't react to the prompt. As soon as the detective left the room, they picked up right where they'd left off.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Now, one thing. Listen to me. Regardless, whatever you feel. Angry, not angry. We have to cooperate now. We have to attack monitor.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

So.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Jazz. There we are.

[Keith Morrison]

The truce didn't last long. Soon, Olga was back on the attack, berating Helen over the additional insurance policy she'd accrued.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Why did you make all these goddamn extra insurances? Too many. You had. There's a limit. You can't do that many. I know. You were greedy. That's the problem. That's why I got angry. We had no problem with the relationship. You pay me and be nice and don't make extra things. I was doing everything for you. But listen, you are talking your fault. I know, but your fault that our relationship ended up like this and you ended up like this. I know, but admit it was your fault because what you did. Of course I got angry. I think it would have occurred with money, you know, no matter what. Money would have done this, no matter what. Not if you didn't have the AAA and the garden stated and you had another 13 extra. You had this size. Of course I did. How nice of you, huh? I paid for that. You don't listen to me, Elaine. The big mistake.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

You're not.

[Keith Morrison]

That's almost better than a confession.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Oh, they're putting the noose around her neck.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Right now listen, you are wasting your time and energy energy with this. We going to go to jail, honey. They going to lock you up. I don't think so. This is mail fraud. And it's $2 million bill. Can you pay?

[Keith Morrison]

It was then about 12 minutes into this little heart to heart that Helen decided to reframe the whole narrative. This wasn't their fault, Helen declared. No, not at all. Their current troubles were actually Kenneth McDavid's fault. After all, the insurance policies were his idea, right? She needed Olga's buy in. But Olga wasn't having it.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

If Kenneth wanted these policies. Yes, he signed for these policies. And we have punished because of what he wanted. That's not now. Remember the bottom line. I was the cousin, you're the fiance. Bologna. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

[Keith Morrison]

Though Detective Kilcoin had promised the women they would only be in that room a few minutes. It had now been more than 20 minutes and neither was losing steam. This was not a conversation. It was a grievance download.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

I should have take the plane last month and get the out of go back to Europe. See the greediness you get into this.

[Keith Morrison]

In addition to wishing she'd gone to Europe, Olga told Helen she'd given some thought to striking out for Canada to set up a new business there. A new franchise, as it were.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Same similar setup. You understand I wanted a new business. I understand I wanted a new business for $2 million. But since we're not in stocking term and my the other investors not as suitable as you. That's what I had in my mind. She's all up now.

[Keith Morrison]

Helen, on the other hand, seemed less intent on woulda, shoulda, coulda and more focused on getting their narratives in line for the coming trial. She seemed to understand that she and Olga would likely never again be able to strategize together.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

You have to remember the bottom line is this whatever Kenneth wanted, he did. Kenneth wanted all this. He wanted. You've got to remember. Yeah, he wanted.

[Keith Morrison]

I know.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Yes, of course. And he wanted it. Why? I don't know. And what his philosophy was if he planned to keep these enforced. We supported. Honey, we supported him. I don't know where all of Kenneth's money came from and neither do you. We supported him. We gave him money. Yes. Our money was intermixed. Yeah, it was combined. All of our monies were combined. When he needed money, I gave him money. You gave him money, whatever. But you have to remember, I don't know where Ken got his money from. As Far as I know, he always seemed to have money in his pockets. No, he was that. I. Did you know what I wanted? I think he was paid under the table. This is just conversation between you and me. Ken always had plenty of money in his pocket and he liked me to pay the bills and he reimbursed me when he could. Otherwise but in appreciation. Why did he make the life insurance? Why? Because he loved us and he wanted to be a part of our family. I supported him financially, very heavily. And he wanted us to do business together. And he loved both of us.

[Keith Morrison]

Finally, an agreement on something which sparked one more question. Helen to Olga. Kind of important. What would the police find when they searched Olga's apartment?

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

You know that they're in there ransacking through your house, Your apartment now. I know. My computer. Yes, everything. Horrible. Horrible. A horrible, horrible, horrible. But all kinds of doctors, all kinds of. Are they gonna find anything bad?

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Well.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

No, not too many, no.

[Keith Morrison]

No.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

But I have other things.

[Keith Morrison]

Yes, other things. Oh, yes, there were plenty of other things. And the homicide detectives would have to inspect all of them with a fine tooth comb. Why? Because as incriminating as Helen and Olga's encounter on insurance fraud charges was, it wasn't the murder confession Detective Kilcoyne had been hoping for. No, building murder cases against Helen and Olga would have to be done the new old fashioned way, by studying the security cameras that were aimed at one of the crime scenes.

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[Keith Morrison]

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[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

If I remember right, there were obituaries and there were articles about, you know, how to off somebody without getting caught. It was crazy stuff that just kind of goes to their state of mind. It's like you don't expect people normally to be trying to figure out, well, how do I kill this guy and nobody catches me? But those kind of things were in there as well.

[Keith Morrison]

But even that was not the most macabre item seized. No, that prize went to an old movie ticket found in Helen's Mercedes. The ticket was from November 7, 1999, a late show, according to the 1045 timestamp. And attached to the ticket was a post it note with a name scribbled on it. FBI agent Sam Mayrose remembers well the moment when he first saw it.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

Yes, I do. It was a post it in Helen's writing, and it had Paul Vados's name, his biographical information, where he was born, his California ID Number.

[Keith Morrison]

Based on the date and the timestamp, it was clear that the ticket had been purchased just six hours before Paul Vados turned up dead in a dark alley. Had they treated Paul to one last night on the town before? Well. Oh, and what movie was playing at the Santa Monica AMC in those last doomed hours of his life? It was the Bone Collector. Big budget flick about a serial killer starring Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

That was an interesting find. Yeah, the evidence just keep piling up. It was fantastic.

[Keith Morrison]

It was about a month after the arrests of Helen Golay and Olga Rudderschmidt, almost a year to the day after the death of Kenneth McDavid, that the LAPD decided to do a little bone collecting of their own. Detective Kilcoyne Wanted to re examine the body of Paul Vaddos. He knew where the bones were buried because Helen had kept a record. It was her plot.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

You know, I think. I think Helen has got graves in her name all over the country. We have another one in East LA for her actually waiting for her that Mr. Vados occupied for a short while.

[Keith Morrison]

The way the detectives figured it, if Kenneth McDavid had been drugged before he was run over, then there was a good chance the same had been done to Paul Vados.

[FBI Special Agent Sam Mayrose]

We knew from the autopsy that Kenneth had been drugged and what the drugs were that knocked him down or knocked him out. We got search warrants to go back to both Olga's residence and Helen's residence. And we found the ingredients for the drug cocktail at Helen's residence. So that helped out as well. And then based on that we got another federal search warrant to exhume Paul Vados body.

[Keith Morrison]

It was June 2006, a Friday morning, little after 9am When a big yellow front loader eased up to a vacant plot of ground in the Evergreen Cemetery in East la. According to cemetery records, this was the spot where Paul vaddes was buried seven years earlier. Paul's closest neighbor was a 13 year old boy who'd been moved to the neighborhood a few months after Paul. The boy had a stone. Paul did not. As the front end loader dug deep into the ground, a couple of cemetery employees stood nearby leaning on shovels and wearing straw sombreros as a shield against an unrelenting son. From the looks of it, Helen and Olga hadn't splurged when choosing a casket for Paul. This one seemed to disintegrate as the crew worked. In a matter of minutes, Paul Vaddis body was loaded up and hauled away for testing. But here's the thing about investigating murder. Sometimes the results are not what you expect.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Mr. Vados. He had nothing in his toxicological reports to indicate that he was inebriated or on drugs or there was nothing in his system. He was just a frail little old man. And they very easily just could have pushed him down and then drove over him. And I don't think he would be able to get up too quickly.

[Keith Morrison]

His body was crushed absolutely and scraped.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Well, they refer to the coroner's office a number of abraded injuries which is basically the tearing of flesh from the body and clothing. And as he is being somewhat dragged and rubbed under the car against this rough surface here, you know, his body is tearing apart as are his clothes and he is being snapped and crunched and just brutally murdered. This is a horrible, horrible death. There's nothing instant about it. It'd be like driving over a pile of rocks. I mean, you just kind of move and push along until it's done, and then you go on about your business and go file your claim forms.

[Keith Morrison]

The detective was sure Paul Vaddos and Kenneth McDavid had both been murdered for money. As sure of that as he was that the moments surrounding Kenneth McDavid's death had been caught on camera. Why? Well, security cameras, of course. There were security cameras all over the area where Kenneth McDavid died. Cameras on the front of stores facing parking lots, and cameras mounted on the rear of those stores facing the ALLEY Where Kenneth McDavid's body was found. The problem was this. The McDavid case was already two months old by the time detective Dennis Kilcoyne took it over.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

Most businesses, just because of economics, they loop everything over and, you know, your opportunity to get something is usually a matter of two or three days and it's taped over. But as luck would have it, we were able to get the recordings from the Bristol farms grocery store.

[Keith Morrison]

Lucky? Oh, yes. It was the closest thing to being there. The surveillance images were not the best grainy black and white. But at 11:45 on the night of June 21, 2005, a silver colored car, which looked to be either a Ford Taurus wagon or a Mercury Sable, can be seen driving through the Bristol farms parking lot. The car passes from view, but seconds later, another camera on the rear of the grocery store picks it up, turning into the back alley. The alley is as dark as a California cabernet, but there is no mistaking that silver car.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

At that point. The car actually goes under the camera, and we have a very good view of that. But unfortunately, you can't make out the occupants of the car or how many people are in the car. All we're working on is the car, and it's grainy and we can't view a license plate or anything of this nature.

[Keith Morrison]

Just as the car passes out of the view of the Bristol farms alley cam, another camera further down the alley picks it up.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

And as the vehicle moves down, it gets to a point where all of the lights in the car go out. And this occurs for a 45 minute period that the lights are off on the car.

[Keith Morrison]

What happened during that 4 minutes and 29 seconds of total darkness is anyone's guess, but the detective had a hunch.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

So we are surmising that this is the point where they're laying out their crime, their victim. They've pushed him out of the car. They're getting him, dragging him around into a position for their advantage, probably lengthwise across the alley.

[Keith Morrison]

At about 11:50pm the car's brake light suddenly flashed on. Next came the backup lights.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

And in the next couple of frames, you see the vehicle come towards the camera as it backs up to get a running start to drive over this man. And that's exactly what you see. The backup light goes off, brake lights come on, brake lights go off. The vehicle moves forward and then past where the body is. So they've already run them over. They stop again as if to look back to make sure that. I mean, they got to make sure the guy's dead. They can't just drive off. And then the car continues down the alley.

[Keith Morrison]

Wow, that is amazing.

[Detective Dennis Kilcoyne]

That was very amazing.

[Keith Morrison]

For months, Detective Kilcoyne and the California Highway Patrol had searched for that silver wagon. But with no license plate number, no VIN number or registration, they were out of luck. And then one day, their luck changed.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

It's navy.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Hey, girl.

[Keith Morrison]

What's happen?

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

Is that your antiperspirant? Uh, yeah.

[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

Let me see that can.

[Olga Rudderschmidt]

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[Insurance Company Representative / Brandy]

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