Verdict at Kouri Richins' trial. Nurse accused of poisoning friend. Plus, AI at the police station.

Summary

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Dateline NBC — March 19, 2026

Episode Theme:
A packed week of true crime: The verdict in Corey Richins' high-profile murder trial, a nurse on trial for allegedly poisoning her best friend, dramatic updates on an Illinois wrongful conviction case, sentencing after a notorious MLB-related murder, and a deep dive into the rise of artificial intelligence in policing.

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1. Corey Richins Trial Verdict — Utah’s Most Talked-About Murder Case

Overview:
Corey Richins, a mother of three and author of a children's book about grief, is found guilty of murdering her husband, Eric Richins, with a fatal fentanyl dose in their Utah home. The episode breaks down the prosecution and defense strategies, the trial's emotional turning point, and reaction to the verdict.

Key Discussion Points:

• Prosecution’s Case (02:26 – 05:52):

  • Over 40 witnesses and a trove of exhibits (phone records, toxicology, financial docs).
  • Corey depicted as “intensely ambitious” (04:26, 04:34), married Eric for stability then grew dissatisfied.
  • Motive: Ambition, desire to leave Eric without forfeiting prenup-protected access to money, a relationship with her handyman-turned-lover Josh Grossman.
  • Narrative: Corey tried and failed to make it on her own, took risky business moves, then allegedly decided Eric “had to die.”
  • “Corey Richins is an intensely ambitious person. She is a risk taker. There was a way forward. Eric had to die.” – Prof. Daniel Lynna summarizing prosecution (05:38)

• Closing Arguments & 911 Call (06:11 – 07:22):

  • Prosecutor replayed Corey’s 911 call the night of Eric’s death, timing a 6-minute delay before CPR.
  • “The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.” – Prof. Daniel Lynna (07:12)

• Defense’s Case (07:26 – 08:46):

  • Focused on undermining the prosecution’s motive, calling the affair a “fantasy.”
  • Argued Corey’s grieving demeanor was subjective: “People all grieve differently and she shouldn't be judged based on the worst moment of her life.” – Karen Israel paraphrasing defense (07:49)
  • Attacked credibility of the prosecution’s star witness, housekeeper Carmen Lauber, whose testimony allegedly traded for leniency amid drug charges and was “full of inconsistencies.” (08:00 – 08:36)

• Verdict & Reactions (09:03 – 09:45):

  • After three hours of tense jury deliberations, Corey Richins found guilty of aggravated murder, as well as attempted aggravated murder, fraud, and forgery.
  • On hearing the verdict, Corey “tipped her head down and you could see her trying to regulate her breathing.” – Karen Israel (09:32)
  • Sentencing set for May 13; she faces 26 additional felony charges for alleged financial crimes.

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2. Utah Nurse Accused of Poisoning Her Best Friend

Overview:
A second Utah case: nurse Megan Sundwal accused of killing her close friend Casey Terry with a fatal insulin overdose, under the guise of cancer care.

Key Discussion Points:

• Relationship & Alleged Crime (12:26 – 16:49):

  • Megan and Casey, close friends since working together; Casey once lived with Megan.
  • Casey claimed to have cancer but autopsy later showed she did not; actual cause of death was insulin overdose.
  • Prosecutors paint Megan as motivated by financial troubles and a $1.5M life insurance policy (which, twist, later turns out not to exist).
  • Alleged Megan encouraged Casey’s suicidal ideations via text messages, and administered the fatal dose of insulin (14:15 – 14:54).
    • “Megan told Casey, there is nothing left for you here... The cabs, you have to let go. It is past.” (14:42)
  • Casey’s sister Kylie testified Casey was increasingly afraid of Megan, moved out for safety, and confided her suspicions of possible poisoning (15:08).

• Defense Position (17:39 – 19:33):

  • The defense argues Casey was a compulsive liar who faked cancer, and Megan only supported her friend emotionally on the night in question.
  • Defense claims Casey self-administered the insulin as part of a suicide plan, with Megan just present for emotional support.
  • Critical twist: the $1.5M insurance policy Megan was supposedly after "never existed" (19:45).

• What’s Next? (20:03 – 20:14):

  • Prosecution continues to call witnesses. Defense will present their case soon.

• Important Note:

  • Segment includes discussion of suicide; hosts share the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline info (20:14).

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3. Dateline Roundup: Updates from Across the Nation

a. Sentencing in the Dan Serafini Murder Case (23:39 – 26:44)

Overview:
Updates on the aftermath of the double shooting involving former MLB pitcher Dan Serafini and his nanny/lover, Samantha Scott.

Key Points:

• Serafini serving life for murdering his in-laws in 2021.
• Samantha Scott, who cooperated as a key witness and pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact, is sentenced to two years’ probation (26:14).
• “My heart goes out to the victims and their family... I truly wish I had acted differently when I had the chance.” – Samantha Scott to the court (26:25).

b. Illinois “Junk Science” Murder Conviction in Doubt (26:44 – 29:34)

Overview:
A new forensic development may upend 2002 convictions in the decades-old murder of Karen Hearn Slover.

Key Points:

• Victim’s ex-husband and his parents convicted in 2002, based on physical evidence now considered “junk science.”
• The Illinois Innocence Project points to three new DNA profiles on evidence, none matching the convicted.
• Judge orders state police to run the DNA through national databases; investigation continues as one defendant, Michael Slover Jr., is out on parole.
• “It's been a really long wait for him, and he's, I think, eager to eventually have his day in court. It's progress, and he's happy about that.” – Carl Leonard, defense attorney (29:27).

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4. AI at the Police Station: The Future of Crime Fighting (29:43 – 35:31)

Overview:
Professor Daniel Lynna from Northwestern discusses the rapid rise of artificial intelligence in law enforcement, potential benefits, controversial risks, and ethically thorny tech-based predictions.

Key Discussion Points:

• What is AI in this Context? (31:02 – 31:26):

  • Chatbots and generative tools already write police reports, summarize interviews, and analyze data.
  • Facial recognition and video weapon detection can help react faster to crime-in-progress.

• Predicting Crime & Bias (32:07 – 33:23):

  • AI programs are used for place-based and person-based "predictions" and parole decisions.
  • Tools like COMPASS used by NY parole boards spark debate — data may counteract human bias, but algorithmic transparency is a huge problem.
  • “Humans have biases as well... Can data counteract that in different ways so we get better outcomes?” – Prof. Daniel Lynna (33:23)

• AI Errors and Misidentification (34:27 – 34:47):

  • Case example: Facial recognition software led to the wrongful arrest of a man 300 miles from a crime scene.
  • “Police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations.” – Prof. Daniel Lynna (34:47)

• The Tech-Policing Future (35:11 – 35:31):

  • AI and robotics will become more common at crime scenes and in daily police work.

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Corey Richins' ambition:

  • “Corey Richins is intensely ambitious. She wanted the perfect life, or at least the appearance of the perfect life.” (04:26)

• On the chilling 911 call:

  • “The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.” (07:12)

• On defense in the nurse trial:

  • “It's always a gamble. But I think for the defense, they feel it's really important here because it raises doubts for the jury…” – Marissa Meyer on questioning the victim’s credibility (18:08)

• On the risks of AI in policing:

  • “This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations.” – Prof. Daniel Lynna (34:47)

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6. Timestamps of Key Segments

• Richins trial opening & context: 02:26 – 03:53
• Prosecution closing argument: 04:09 – 06:11
• 911 call analysis: 06:11 – 07:22
• Defense closing argument: 07:26 – 08:46
• Verdict & reaction: 09:03 – 09:45
• Nurse poisoning case intro: 12:26 – 13:38
• Key testimony, motive, insurance twist: 14:54 – 19:45
• AI in policing in-depth segment: 29:43 – 35:31

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Dateline closes with word of more new episodes, and a reminder about the rapidly evolving world of law, tech, and true crime.

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Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Hey, good morning. Good morning.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So you're listening in to the DATELINE morning meeting. There's also the Alabama charges. Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

It sounds like the defense is to

[Commercial Announcer]

throw dirt on the forensics, right?

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

We got some antifreeze.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

We got a love triangle and maybe video interrogation perhaps.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's March 19th and we're on the road bringing you the podcast from Utah where I'm covering the Cory Richins trial. More on that in a little bit. First, here's what's on our docket this week. In Provo, Utah, a nurse is on trial for allegedly poisoning her best friend with insulin. Her defense team says the case is

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

based on lies like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says?

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

In DATELINE Roundup, the latest on an Illinois killer fighting to clear his name and the names of his parents, too. And the newly released police interview with the ex lover of former major League baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

We always joke around that we're like a throuple because he always complains that

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

he has two wives plus AI at the police station and the courthouse. How is artificial intelligence changing crime fighting?

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

There's a lot of controversy around this. The whole idea is trying to intervene before the crime occurs.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

All right. Let's get to our first story. We are here not too far from the Summit County Courthouse, and we've got a huge update for you in the trial of Corey Richens, the mother of three who authored a children's book about grief only to be accused of murdering her husband. There's a verdict over the Past three weeks, prosecutors painstakingly built their case against Corey Richards by calling over 40 witnesses, presenting dozens of exhibits, phone records, toxicology reports, financial documents, all pointing, they say, towards Corey's involvement in her husband's sudden death. The prosecution alleged that the Utah mom had slipped her husband Eric a fatal dose of fentanyl in a cocktail so she could cash in on his life insurance and start her life over with a new man. Then it came time for the defense to present their case, and they took a very different approach. They announced they would not be calling a single witness.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Your Honor, actually, this time, the defense

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

intends to rest a decision so surprising, the judge made sure Corey Richins was okay with it. I just want to make sure you've

[Commercial Announcer]

consulted with your client about this.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Absolutely.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Ms. Richins, may I ask you two direct questions?

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Do you understand that you have the right to testify at trial?

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Yes, I do.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Are you following your attorney's advice and

[Commercial Announcer]

waiving your right to testify at trial?

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes, I am.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Closing arguments got underway on Monday, and then the jury was sent off to deliberate. Dateline producer Karen Israel is here with me in the same room in Utah, and she is joining us now to talk about the final chapter in the Corey Richards case. Karen, thanks so much for being here in Utah with me.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Before we get to the verdict, let's just spend a little bit longer talking about the closing arguments. The prosecution went first. Prosecutor Brad Bloodworth spent a lot of time describing Corey's character. The prosecutor, you know, went after her psychological makeup and said that she was intensely ambitious.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Corey Richards is intensely ambitious. She wanted the perfect life, or at least the appearance of the perfect life.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah, he used that phrase intensely ambitious five times in his closing. It's the phrase that he seemed to want the jury to hold onto to understand just how driven Corey was to get what she wanted. And he said she'd do whatever it took to get it. And at first, her husband Eric seemed to provide exactly what she was looking for. But then the prosecutor said Corey got unhappy in the marriage, and she couldn't just walk away. She had too much to lose.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So, Karen, also in that motive bucket is this prenup that Cory and Eric had. And the prosecutor went into details about that.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Their prenuptial agreement meant that if she left him, she would also leave most of his money.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

That's right. Bloodworth said Corey did everything she could to make enough money on her own to be able to leave Eric Richins and took incredible risks trying to do so in her house. Flipping business. And that's when she crossed paths with her handyman turned lover, Josh Grossman. She seemed to want a life with this man. The prosecutor told the jury that she really only saw one path forward.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Corey Richards is an intensely ambitious person. She is a risk taker. There was a way forward. Eric had to die.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

How did the prosecutor sum up how Corey killed Eric?

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

So the prosecutor said Corey bought illicit street drugs to kill Eric and that Corey gave Eric the drugs she got her hands on in a cocktail. That possibly a Moscow Mule or a shot or both.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

We heard early on that 911 call that Corey made the day Eric Richards died. The prosecutor chose to replay that 911 call in closings.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Okay, what's the address?

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. So on the call, you hear Corey giving excuses about why she can't give Eric cpr.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

I can't move it. Is this dead weight? Like you're not. If he has sheets on there, pull them to the floor. Don't worry about hurting him. Cory, can you please send somebody?

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

The prosecutor actually put up a time clock while playing the 911 call and estimated there was a six minute delay before Corey actually started doing CPR.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And so we go back to character here. The prosecutor wanted the jury to listen to Corey's demeanor and, you know, decide for the themselves who this woman really is.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay. Then it was the defense's turn to present their closing arguments.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Defense attorney Wendy Lewis poked holes in the prosecution's theory that Corey killed her husband to be with Josh Grossman, saying that even Grossman himself admitted on the stand that their future together was a mere fantasy. And Cory never promised she would leave Eric for him.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

If Corey was as motivated by money as they would have you think, would she really have killed her wealthy husband to run off with the handyman who lived for free in one of her houses?

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

As to Corey's behavior on the 911 call and after Eric's death, the defense said that people all grieve differently and she shouldn't be judged based on the worst moment of her life.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

The defense attacked the credibility of the state's star witness, Carmen Lauber. She's really key in this, this whole trial. She's Corey's former housekeeper who testified that she got the fentanyl for Corey, which the prosecution says was the deadly fentanyl.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah, Carmen is so important in this case. And the defense really zeroed in on the Point that Carmen's testimony could not be trusted. They said that not only did she give her story in exchange for a get out of jail free card as she was facing serious drug charges. They said her testimony was full of inconsistencies.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

She couldn't remember anything. Not from 2022, not from 2023. She couldn't remember on Friday what she testified to on Thursday.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Jury deliberations got underway Monday afternoon and the mood was tense.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah, the judge checked in with the jury. They wanted to keep going into the evening. They actually locked up the courthouse and everyone had to stay inside. Then after three hours of deliberating, we learned the jury had reached a verdict.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay, let's take a listen.

[Commercial Announcer]

Count one, aggravated murder. We the jury unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richins, is guilty of aggravated murder.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

Richins also faced charges of attempted aggravated murder, fraud, and forgery. She was found guilty of all of those charges.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And Karen, I personally felt like as the verdict was being read, you got a sense of how Corey was feeling. It to me, it was written all over her face.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

After hearing guilty for the aggravated murder charge, she tipped her head down and you could see her trying to regulate her breathing.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

When will Cory Richards be sentenced?

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

The judge scheduled sentencing for May 13.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Richards, incredibly also faces 26 other felony charges in a separate case, charges all pertaining to alleged financial crimes. And we'll have to wait and see whether prosecutors will pursue that in light of this verdict because she is looking at some very, very serious time behind bar. Karen, thank you for being here with me in Utah.

[Karen Israel (Producer/Reporter)]

It's great to be here with you.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Coming up down the road from the Corey Richins courthouse, we've got another Utah story for you. And another alleged poisoning. This one involves a nurse and her best friend.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

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[Andrea Canning (Host)]

For our next story, we're heading to Provo, Utah, where it's week two in the trial of nursing Megan Sundwal for the murder of her best friend Casey Terry. At the time of 38 year old Casey's death in August of 2024, her friends and family believed she was terminally ill with cancer. But an autopsy revealed something astonishing. Casey didn't even have cancer. She died from an insulin overdose. After a seven month investigation, police arrested Casey's friend Megan for her murder. Tonight, a Utah nurse is behind bars accused of carrying out a years long murder plot driven by greed for life insurance money. The woman allegedly killed her own roommate. Megan Sundwal says she's innocent and has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and obstruction of justice. And as her trial gets underway, her defense team is urging the jury not to jump to conclusions. They say Casey was lying to everyone about having cancer and that wasn't the only thing she lied about. As a warning for our listeners, this segment includes discussion of suicide. DATELINE producer Marissa Meyer, who has been covering the case, is here to get us up to speed. Thanks for joining us, Marissa.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Thank you for having me, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So before we get into the details of the alleged crime, Marissa, tell us about Megan and Casey. Who were they? How did they know each other? And you say they were best friends, right? Or it appeared to be, yeah.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Very, very close. Prosecutors say Casey and Megan met working at a center for adults with intellectual disab and they became close friends really quickly. And at one point, Casey even lived with Megan and her husband. So they were very, very close.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

At some point in their friendship, Casey started telling people she had cancer. How did Megan react?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

So prosecutors said the friends spoke often about Casey's cancer and how she was in pain and she was worried about dying. The state showed the jury text messages in which Casey expressed suicidal ideations to Megan, saying that she wanted to end her own pain. And they alleged that Megan seemed to be encouraging Casey to follow through with those ideations.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Megan told Casey, there is nothing left for you here. And then another word where she told her, the cabs, you have to let go. It is past.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Prosecutors say that the way Megan was talking to her was scaring Casey.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And they called Casey's sister Kylie to the stand. She told the jury that Casey got so scared of Megan that she moved out of her house.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Me and my husband moved her out around 2020. Why did you and your husband move her out? Because Casey no longer felt safe living there. How did she express that to you? There were multiple phone calls that she felt like Megan was trying to poison her. She just didn't feel comfortable being in that house anymore.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And Kylie testified that as far as she knew, Casey wasn't suicidal at all.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

What did you perceive Casey's attitude about life? To be happy. She was a lot more upbeat than I had seen her in a long time. Do you feel she would have confided in you if suicide intention was an issue? Yes.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Kylie said she believed right from the start that Megan was involved in Casey's death.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Tell us how life insurance fits into all of this.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah. So this is a central part of the case and what prosecutors say is the motive in the case. The jury learned that Casey told Megan that she had named Megan as the beneficiary of her life insurance policy.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

She showed her documents that indicated there was up to a million and a half dollars that that Megan was going to be the beneficiary of.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

And prosecutors noted that Megan was in financial trouble at that point. She'd lost her job. She total her car and her husband's child support payments from a previous marriage had gone way up.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So, Marissa, with all of what we've just talked about, what do prosecutors say happened on August 12, 2024?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

So they say that Megan entered Casey's home that day with a plan.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Her plan was that she would go to her friend Jason Carrie's house. She would inject her with insulin and monitor her blood glucose until JC died.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

And prosecutors say Megan did not call 911 to get her help. Casey's uncle eventually did, and Then Casey died three days later in the hospital.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And there's a big twist in all this. We said in. In the intro, Casey didn't even have cancer.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So had she been lying to everyone then, including Megan?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. So Casey's lies have formed the basis of the defense's argument. The defense is saying that Casey lied a lot. They say that she was lying about cancer. She was lying about a ton of other things. And they say that, you know, maybe she was doing all this to try to get attention from people.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Wow.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So the defense is basically attacking the credibility of the victim, which is always dicey.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. It's always a gamble. But I think for the defense, they feel it's really important here because it raises doubts for the jury about things the prosecutors said, which could be very damning about Megan's character, like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan or being worried that Megan might kill her. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says?

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

When it came down to those text messages about Casey's desire for a quote, unquote, release from her illness, wanting to die by suicide, what did the defense have to say about that?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Well, they're saying that maybe Megan believed Casey and was trying to support her friend.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So does the defense dispute that Megan was with Casey on the night of August 12th?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

So they do not. And it's one of those things where they can't really dispute it because there are witnesses who place Megan there. But they say Megan was aware of Casey's alleged plan to die that night by suicide via this insulin overdose, and that she went to Casey's house to support her emotionally, Just emotionally, not to administer any doses of insulin.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So are they saying then, that Casey injected the insulin into herself?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Exactly. That's what this whole case boils down to. The question of who gave Casey that fatal dose of insulin. Was it Casey herself, or was it Megan?

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay, so there's yet another twist in this story, Marissa, that has to do with this insurance policy.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

I know, I know. This is twist number four, five, or six.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

I think there's more at this point. Yeah.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Yeah. Both sides also agree that this $1.5 million life insurance policy Casey told Megan was in her name. It never existed. So Megan didn't actually stand to receive any money after Casey's death.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

What can we expect next in the courtroom?

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

So the prosecution is still calling witnesses, and we'll continue to watch the testimony before the defense begins their case.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Before we go, we'd like to share some information. If you or someone you know is in crisis. Call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for more resources. Thank you for bringing us this very complicated story, Marissa, and breaking it down.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE Roundup. Dramatic updates from an Illinois courtroom and a 30 year old murder case. And the sentencing of Samantha Scott, the ex lover of former baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini. Plus, more police departments are using AI to fight crime, even crimes that that haven't happened yet.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Exclusively on AMC and amc. Plus, you got a possible train killer out there. A brand new season of the hit series Dark Winds.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Big cases put everyone on edge.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And this one's big.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

She's coming from executive producers Robert redford and George R.R.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

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[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Welco. Joining me for this week's roundup is Dateline producer Veronica Mazeka. Hey, Veronica.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay, so, Veronica, for our first story, we're heading to a California courtroom and the sentencing of a key player in a case we have been following very closely. This is the 2021 shooting of Gary Spore and his wife, Wendy Wood by their son in law, former major league baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He was married to the couple's daughter, Aaron. Gary was killed at the scene. Wendy survived the shooting but died by suicide the next year.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

My mom's blood is on Samantha Scott's hands.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

That is the voice of Gary and Wendy's other daughter, Adrian, talking about Samantha Scott, Serafini's nanny and lover. Veronica, remind us how Samantha Scott fits into this case.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. So a jury convicted Dan Serafini of first degree murder and attempted murder in July, and he is now serving life without parole. Samantha Scott testified against Serafini at his trial. She admitted that they were lovers and that she dropped him off in Tahoe the day of the shooting.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So, Veronica, interesting timing here. Samantha Scott's initial interview with detectives was just released. So we can hear for ourselves what she told them in those early days. Samantha says she thought Sarah Feeney was going to Tahoe to buy drugs, not to kill his in laws.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

That's correct. And you hear the detectives getting frustrated with her. They say that they don't believe her, but she sticks to her guns. And that's actually consistent with what she said ever since. She says she had no idea what Serafini was planning.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

In that same interview, Samantha Scott also downplayed her relationship with Serafini at the beginning of all of this, saying it was more of a flirtatious friendship than an affair.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Are you and Danny together or is it a sexual thing or just friends?

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Um, so we're friends. I mean, they're family. I'm very close with Erin, and I'm very close with Dan. There's a recent flirtation going on which I'm sure you will see on my phone.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

With Dan.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Okay.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Not Aaron.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

No, not with Aaron. And we always joke around that we're like a throuple because he always complains that he has two wives.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Eventually, Samantha agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and told them she'd been hiding something, that Serafini had actually confessed to her after the shootings. She pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact. Which brings us back to her sentencing this week. What Veronica did the judge ultimately decide?

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Samantha Scott was sentenced to two years of probation with no additional jail time.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

And Samantha addressed the court as well.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes, she apologized and took full responsibility for lying to investigators.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

My heart goes out to the victims and their family. I cannot undo what happened, but I truly wish that I had acted differently when I had the chance.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

The judge said he was troubled by her conduct but found her testimony credible. She is also prohibited from having any contact with Sarafini, and he is filing an appeal.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So we will see where that goes. For our next story, we're heading to Illinois, where there's been a development in a case that's nearly 30 years old. In 1996, a boater on Lake Shelbyville found a bag containing the head of an aspiring model, Karen Hearn Slover. A few years later, Karen's ex husband, Michael Slover Jr. And his parents were convicted in connection with her murder. Now, new DNA analysis could change everything. Veronica, give us a quick recap of this case.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Karen went missing in late September 1996. The car she was last seen driving was found abandoned on the highway, but there was no sign of Karen. A few days later, her remains were found. Then in 2002, Michael Slover Jr. And his parents were convicted of murder. Prosecutors told the jury that concrete debris found in Karen's abandoned car actually matched concrete debris found in the parking lot of the Slovers family business. And they said that investigators had found a button at the family business that matched the buttons on the shirt Karen had been wearing when she disappeared.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Michael and his parents have always maintained their innocence. And the Illinois Innocence Project took on their case a few years ago.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. In 2024, they filed a motion asking for the conviction to be thrown out, arguing that the prosecution's case had been built on junk science, things like comparing the concrete debris and buttons. But the really big thing in that motion was that they said there was, quote, newly discovered DNA evidence in the case.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

What DNA evidence are they referring to?

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

They said that there was forensic testing that had identified three DNA profiles on items associated with the crime, like duct tape that was used to seal the bags containing Karen's remains. They said none of the DNA belonged to the Slovers. They petitioned a judge to order the Illinois State Police to submit the DNA profiles to both state and national law enforcement databases, including codis. They said that this could actually lead them to the real killers.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

So what did the judge decide?

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

The judge recently ordered that the police start submitting the profiles for analysis. And at a court hearing last week, the defense told the judge that the process is underway, but it is far from complete.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay, so where do they go from here? The police?

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

The Illinois State Police will continue that analysis, but prosecutors are pushing back against the defense team's motion to overturn the convictions. They say that the jury made the right decision at trial, and the investigation was solidified.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Okay, so meantime, Michael Slover Jr. Is out of prison.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Yes. He got out on parole in 2024. Both of his parents died in prison. His attorney, Carl Leonard, spoke to our local affiliate WAND about Michael's reaction to this new development.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

It's been a really long wait for him, and he's, I think, eager to eventually have his day in court. It's progress, and he's happy about that.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Very interesting. Veronica, thank you so much for bringing us these stories.

[Marissa Meyer (Producer/Reporter)]

Of course.

[Veronica Mazeka (Producer/Reporter)]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

For our final story this week, we're diving into a topic that's been getting a lot of attention lately. AI or artificial intelligence. AI is something that is increasingly in our lives, from the search engines on our computers and phones to our kids using it for their homework. But what if we told you that AI is also being used to fight crime, generating police reports, tracking down fugitives, even predicting future crimes? Here to fill us in on this new frontier in law enforcement is Professor Daniel Lynna, senior lecturer and director of law and technology initiatives at Northwestern University. Thanks for joining me, Dan.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Yeah, glad to be here.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

The first thing that jumps to mind is Minority Report, the movie with Tom Cruise about, you know, it came out a long time ago, but it was really about predicting future murders.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

We are arresting individuals who have broken

[Commercial Announcer]

no law, but they will. The preconks see the future, and they're never wrong.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Right, right, right. Well, yeah, a lot of people bring that up. And how are they actually making these predictions? Is there any validity to that? And that's still kind of a relevant question to have here. When we talk about AI, it's really important to understand what kind of tools are being used. What's the data being used? How is it being used for these different things?

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Let's just start with the basics of what we mean when we say AI, artificial intelligence, what exactly is it?

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

There's a wide range of things you might think about. These generative AI tools that produce text, produce images. And you said writing police reports. Right. Those are the kind of tools you could use, tools that would summarize a conversation, perhaps, and help create a police report or face recognition tools which have Been around for a little bit longer. Different type of technology.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Obviously, one of the things we love is how quickly These sites like ChatGPT can spit everything out that you're looking for. And there's some AI applications that could really, I feel like, cut down on time for law enforcement when they're searching, you know, for a suspect. You know, we've talked about facial recognition, but also detecting fingerprint matches, identifying weapons on security cameras.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that speed can be really important. Right. If you can identify that someone has pulled out a weapon in a video camera. Right. And draw people's attention to that right away, versus expecting that someone was looking at that video camera at the time. Right. That can make a huge difference.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Another way police departments have started to use AI is by using software to analyze crime data and look for patterns that could help predict future crimes, which is what we were talking about earlier with Minority Report.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Yeah. And this is something that's been going on for a while. Different versions of this, and it's quite controversial, but there's a lot of different type of data that is gathered to make these predictions. There can be place based predictions. Are there particular areas where you think there may be crime? Or it can be person based prediction. Some of the person based prediction used properly could be helpful in the sense that you identify individuals who, hey, maybe there's an intervention here and we can help change the pathway this person is on so they're, they're not involved in a violent crime or something like that.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

The New York State Parole Board uses an AI tool called COMPASS to predict the likelihood of an individual reoffending when deciding on that individual's parole. You know, is this a good idea to be having a computer help deciding something like this when there's so many factors that go into a human being and what they've done, what they may do, what's their background, what's their future?

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Well, to give a lawyerly answer, I'd say it depends. Right. I mean, but and it really depends on the kind of tool that's being used. And you know, we sometimes forget in these discussions that humans have biases as well. So having data to help assist judges in making decisions, there's risks with that. And I think a big problem with COMPAs, for example, is transparency and not having access to, you know, what is the algorithm, how are they computing this? And at the same time, there have been some studies that suggest that this information being provided to judges has actually resulted in better decisions where people were released, they did not reoffend. Right. Judges make decisions that aren't the best or biased sometimes as well. Can data counteract that in different ways so we get better outcomes? And I think that this highlights something that, you know, we're all going to have to get savvier about understanding the ways in which these AI tools work and learning more about them. And where we see problems is over. Align some of technology. The, the areas where outputs from an AI system is treated as like, you know, this is the way the world is. This is the correct result.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Yeah. Just last year, according to Gulf Coast News, a man in Lee County, Florida was wrongfully arrested for luring or enticing a child. AI facial rec software identified him as the person of interest on camera leaving a restaurant. Turned out that the man who was ID'd was 300 miles away at the time and had never been to that town.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Yeah, we've had a few incidents like this. Unfortunately, you know, the police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Where do you think we're going with this as far as if we had this conversation? And even, you know, two years, three years, like, it's, it's so rapidly evolving. Do you think we'll see someday robots at crime scenes?

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it just depends on what your, your notion of a, of a robot is. Right. But, yeah, I think that we're going to try to bring tools like that into more and more of our daily interactions.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

Dan, thank you so much for joining us. This fascinating conversation, and it just makes you wonder what the future is going to hold.

[Professor Daniel Lynna (AI Expert)]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

That's it for this episode of Dateline, True Crime Weekly. But remember to check out my friend Josh's brand new original podcast series, Trace of Suspicion. It's got a lot of twists, and I think you're gonna like it. It's about the aftermath of a Marine's unexpected death. Investigators suspected his widow had something to do with it, setting off a criminal clip case that took a stunning turn.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

I really want to let everyone know that this really can happen to them. Innocent people go to prison for life, and that's a scary thing.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

The first four episodes are available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. And if you subscribe to Dateline Premium, you can binge the whole series ad free. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, we've got more. Josh for you. You can watch his episode about the murder of a beloved tech mogul that stunned a city and sent investigators into a world of glamour. Parties and rage. That is the most far out story I think I've ever heard in my life. I think that there is something deeply disturbing about this person. Watch under the Bay Bridge airing this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Karloff production and fact checking help by Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Raquan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

[Corey Richins (Defendant) / Samantha Scott (Witness)]

Okay, thanks very much.

[Andrea Canning (Host)]

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