← Dateline NBC
Dateline NBC
Luigi Mangione’s shifting defense strategy. A victim’s lover takes the stand. Plus, Keith Morrison's new podcast.
00:32:31
In Manhattan, Luigi Mangione’s defense prepares to use a psychiatric defense, then reverses course. In San Diego County, Maya Millete's lover, Jamey Laird, takes the stand in the trial of her husband, who is accused of killing her. In Dateline Roundup, former Bardstown, Kentucky, police officer Nick Houck enters a plea on a perjury charge; his brother was convicted last year of killing Crystal Rogers. Plus, the Supreme Court makes a stunning ruling in the case of Etan Patz, the 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 in New York City. And Keith Morrison previews his new podcast, "Five Miles From Home.” Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com
Loading summary
Transcript153 lines
- [00:02]
Andrea Canning
Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety
- [00:11]
Alex Leray
features so you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road
- [00:15]
Andrea Canning
ahead and ready before problems ever start. Mazda more of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product
- [00:31]
Keith Morrison
with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.
- [00:58]
Andrea Canning
Okay, let's jump in. You're listening in to the DATELINE story meeting. There's finally been an arrest. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.
- [01:07]
Alex Leray
There's great footage of the couple and these lavish parties they attended.
- [01:12]
Keith Morrison
The defendant is anxious to talk.
- [01:15]
Mike Nardi
So did he poison the Brussels sprouts?
- [01:18]
Andrea Canning
Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's June 25th and here's what's on our docket. In San Diego County, California, prosecutors argue a wife's affair drove her husband to hexes and murder. Her lover takes the stand.
- [01:36]
Alexis Rivas
He was messaging Maya that basically his life is screwed up, his world is screwed up, he's screwed up, everything is ruined.
- [01:42]
Andrea Canning
In DATELINE Roundup, former Bardstown, Kentucky, police officer Nick Hauck enters a plea to a perjury charge. Less than a year after his brother Brooks was convicted of killing Crystal Rogers. And the notorious missing child case of Eitan Pates gets a ruling from the nation's highest court.
- [02:00]
Alex Leray
The Supreme Court essentially reversed the reversal.
- [02:03]
Andrea Canning
Plus, Keith Morrison is here to talk about his all new podcast series five
- [02:08]
Keith Morrison
Miles From Home, the compounding issue of what teenagers can sometimes do to each other for no apparent reason. It was just something I couldn't get out of my mind.
- [02:17]
Andrea Canning
But before all that, Luigi Mangione's defense team switched up its strategy to and then switched it again. Luigi Mangione recently appeared in a New York City courthouse for what was to be a routine pretrial hearing ahead of his state murder trial. Mangione is accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson back in December of 2024. It turned out, though, that that routine hearing revealed some major news. The judge overseeing the case announced that Mangione planned to use A psychiatric defense asserting that he was emotionally disturbed at the time of the shooting. Then 24 hours later, Mangione's attorneys withdrew the psychiatric defense. It was a head spinning couple of days. And here to help us make sense of it all is NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos and Dateline producer Mike Nardi. Mike and Danny, thanks for being here.
- [03:16]
Danny Savalos
Thank you.
- [03:17]
Mike Nardi
Thanks, Andrea.
- [03:18]
Andrea Canning
All right, so Mike, you produced the recent Dateline episode on the case with Lester. Give us a quick reminder about what happened happened in those early morning hours. On December 4, 2024, UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian
- [03:31]
Mike Nardi
Thompson was shot dead outside the Hilton Hotel in midtown Manhattan while he was on his way there for the company's annual investors conference. A days long manhunt came to an end when the manager at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania called authorities to report that some of the customers there thought a man resembling the alleged gunman ran, was eating breakfast there. Police took 28 year old Luigi Mangione into custody and he was eventually charged in connection to Brian's murder.
- [04:01]
Andrea Canning
Okay, so Mangione has entered a not guilty plea for all the charges against him, including federal stalking charges and state murder charges. Danny, before last week's hearing, we had some hints about where his defense strategy was going.
- [04:17]
Danny Savalos
Yes, we did. And I would say the highlight has been their motion to suppress evidence. These motions are virtually never granted and yet they got some items suppressed and kept out of evidence, even though they lost on some of their other motions. So their strategy so far appears to have been try to keep as much evidence out as you can as we approach trial.
- [04:40]
Andrea Canning
Yeah, they kind of failed when the judge ruled that a gun found in Mangione's backpack as well as some of his writings could be seen by the jury. So, Mike, take us into the hearing that took place last Wednesday.
- [04:52]
Mike Nardi
So Mangione came into the courthouse in downtown Manhattan. He had his head down, he was in handcuffs. And as the hearing got underway, the judge overseeing the state case made a stunning announcement. He was unsealing a notice from Mangione's defense team that they would be using the affirmative psychiatric defense and emotional disturbance at the time of the killing. I guess they filed this back in September of 2025, but it had been sealed from the public.
- [05:22]
Andrea Canning
What does it even mean, the psychiatric defense in a case like this, this
- [05:26]
Danny Savalos
particular psychiatric defense, Extreme emotional distress or disturbance or EED as I'll call it, all it would do is lower the level of the crime to first degree manslaughter versus second degree Murder. And that, of course, would reduce the prison time that he would be exposed to. One of the keys to EED is you have to admit that you committed the killing. So you would have to admit to the killing and then hope against hope that you can establish this distress. And the best you'll get out of it is a reduction in your penalty.
- [06:02]
Andrea Canning
What would Mangione's defense team have to prove to be able to prove this?
- [06:07]
Danny Savalos
So under the jury instructions, essentially, he'd have to prove three things. First, he must actually be extremely emotionally disturbed. It's gotta be so extreme that it resulted in a loss of self. Control. Control. The second is that there has to be an explanation for this extreme emotional disturbance that is reasonable. And then third, the defendant has to show that he was under the influence of that extreme emotional disturbance when he committed the homicide. Not now, not during his perp walk, not in his writings, in any manifesto, but at the time of the killing.
- [06:47]
Andrea Canning
Okay, so maybe Mike can help us out here. Mike, did you find anything in your reporting with Lester that would give us any insight into Mangione's state of mind and why he may have been emotionally disturbed at the time of the killing?
- [07:03]
Mike Nardi
Most of the people we spoke to, in fact all of the people we spoke to, described Mangione as a normal young man. He certainly did not come across as being obsessed with the healthcare industry. You know, we even looked into this back ailment that he had suffered from. There was speculation that maybe the injury is what inspired the killing or maybe would have caused this disorder disturbance, but we found no evidence of that. You know, in fact, Lester spoke with a yoga instructor in Honolulu who had taught yoga classes to Luigi. And he told us that Mangione certainly didn't come across as someone who was in debilitating pain. We also spoke with a professional soccer player who met Mangione at a bar in Bangkok, and he told us that they did discuss America's healthcare system. But he said Mangione was not particularly angry or resentful.
- [07:54]
Andrea Canning
Mike, you reported that there was a time when Mangione was off the map. Friends and family couldn't account for his whereabouts. Is there the thought that that could have been where things changed for Luigi Mangione?
- [08:09]
Mike Nardi
Certainly. Certainly. And like you said, we just don't know what he was doing. We don't know what his mental or physical state might have been because he stopped posting online. His family seemed to be out of contact as well, because we understand he missed a good friend's wedding. And we that his mom Filed that missing persons report in November, just before the murder.
- [08:31]
Andrea Canning
And Mike, you read through all the writings inside his backpack, right? What stood out to you?
- [08:37]
Mike Nardi
You know, he does write directly about the healthcare industry in these writings. In a letter addressed to the feds, he writes, these parasites simply had it coming. The US has the number one most expansive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly number 42 in life expectancy. United is the fifth largest company in the US by market cap. And he goes on to say, it has grown and grown. But has our life expectancy? No.
- [09:03]
Andrea Canning
Danny, when it comes to a potential psychiatric defense, how do writings like this fit into that, if at all?
- [09:12]
Danny Savalos
These writings are certainly interesting and they could help the defense, but unless it can be shown that it was close to the time of the shooting, it may not be relevant. In fact, more relevant to me is what we mentioned about him going off the grid because it's so much closer to the time of the shooting. That's the kind of thing I would think would be even more helpful to the defense.
- [09:36]
Andrea Canning
As we mentioned, the defense withdrew this psychiatric defense the next day. What happened?
- [09:45]
Danny Savalos
Originally, I suspected that it was possible that Mangioni himself was changing his mind or engaging in last minute decisions. Since then, I now think it's possible that when they came into court, that they may have filed this notice to hedge their bets, which is something you do as a defendant. You want to keep every option open. And then when the court said, well, going forward, we're going to have to release all this information, I think what happened was the defense thought it's not worth it because the benefit of this extreme emotional disturbance defense, it's really only a reduction in punishment. It's not really a defense.
- [10:22]
Andrea Canning
So what is next for Luigi Mangione's defense? Do we have any idea?
- [10:27]
Danny Savalos
Their defense at this point is the same as any other defense. They're awaiting trial, preparing, putting together the evidence they plan to contradict or fight, and maybe some of their own evidence. The emotional disturbance defense, technically it's something the defense could revisit, but I would be surprised if they did. Even though it's not evidence, the mere fact that federal and state prosecutors are now aware that on some level Mangione was considering admitting to the killing is going to be problematic. It's not something they're going to introduce as evidence, but it's something that certainly galvanizes both the federal and state prosecutors to probably feel convinced they have the right guy.
- [11:10]
Andrea Canning
All right, thank you, Danny and Mike, both of you, for being here and bringing us your unique insight into this latest development.
- [11:16]
Danny Savalos
Thank you.
- [11:17]
Mike Nardi
Thank you.
- [11:19]
Andrea Canning
Coming up, bombshell testimony from a missing woman's lover as prosecutors try to prove she was murdered by her husband.
- [11:31]
Keith Morrison
A strange thing happens when you put off finishing your college degree. Maybe next semester turns into five years and the thought is still lingering, waiting, haunting you. That's where Southern New Hampshire University understands they have more than 200 affordable, flexible online degree programs and the application takes just minutes to complete. Don't let your degree linger like an unsolved case. Apply today at SNHU.edu Dateline Mint mobile
- [12:03]
Andrea Canning
plans are only 15 per month. Wondering what's the catch? There isn't one. There are no gimmicks and no gotchas. Just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network and an award winning care team that makes Mint Mobile a catch. You can bring your current phone and your phone number, choose from 3, 6 or 12 month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. Ditch overpriced wireless With Mint Mobile, it's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com dateline that's mintmobile.com dateline cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com dateline that'S it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three month plan only speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.
- [13:13]
Keith Morrison
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One Cafes are open 7 days a assist with your banking needs. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC
- [13:43]
Andrea Canning
over the last six weeks in San Diego County, California, prosecutors have laid out their case against former Navy optician Larry Miliette. They say that in 2021, Larry killed his wife Maya and hid her body, a crime they say he committed after first hiring a spellcaster to put a hex on her. Prosecutors argue Larry killed his wife because she wanted a divorce and was having an affair with a married co worker. On Monday, prosecutors called to the stand their most anticipated witness, the man Maya was having the affair with, Jamie Laird. Here to bring us the latest is NBC 7 investigative reporter Alexis Rivas. Hey, Alexis. Welcome back to the podcast.
- [14:25]
Alex Leray
Hi.
- [14:26]
Alexis Rivas
Thanks so much for having me.
- [14:27]
Andrea Canning
So, before we talk about the latest testimony, remind us, Alexis, what authorities are alleging happened.
- [14:33]
Alexis Rivas
So, for years now, prosecutors have said that Larry Meliete killed his wife Maya five years ago because she disappeared from their home. Right. The last footage of Maya is walking into her house, and there's no known video of Maya ever leaving. They say he killed her and then found a way to get rid of her body in a way that no one has ever been able to find.
- [14:54]
Andrea Canning
So, Alexis, the prosecution says Maya was in love with her co worker, a man named Jamie Laird, who has really been at the center of all of this. What do we know about him?
- [15:06]
Alexis Rivas
We didn't know very much, honestly. And that's why everyone was waiting to hear him take the stand. The room got hacked. I mean, within very short amount of time, a lot of people were trying to get in and were turned away at the courtroom doors. Everyone just wanted to hear from him for so long. And now we're learning a lot more about kind of how this affair really began and just how close Maya and Jamie were and how often they talked up until and including the day she was last seen alive.
- [15:35]
Andrea Canning
What did Jamie say about his relationship with Maya?
- [15:38]
Alexis Rivas
So let's take it back to the beginning. He started working at the same place as Maya in the summer of 2019. About six months later, he said Maya started texting him. And soon after that, this relationship gets physical. And it stays a highly physical relationship for about a year. Jamie said that they met up in cars, at hotels, and very early on, they were caught. They both got called into their boss's office. They both basically agreed that they were going to deny this for a while. They lied to their boss, to coworkers. And this is on a naval base. Right. I think it's important to note Maya was his supervisor's supervisor. So this is a kind of a relationship that could have been problematic for both of them had it come to light in the office, Alexis, the fact
- [16:29]
Andrea Canning
that Maya and Jamie were confiding in each other. And this feels like it got pretty deep emotionally as well. Why was that important for the prosecution's case?
- [16:40]
Alexis Rivas
Well, they had these kind of code names for their spouses, and they had all this kind of behavior that they did to try to keep their affair secret. Part of that, Maya's code name for Larry was V, as in V for Voldemort. And Jamie also testified that in general, he Was really worried about Maya. He had never seen someone so desperate and so controlling and trying to save the marriage. He was referring to Larry. He knew Larry would also control. When Maya could drive, Larry would drive her to work and drive her home. Yeah.
- [17:10]
Andrea Canning
And one thing that was really important. Jamie told jurors that Maya had told him that she wanted to divorce Larry after this trip to Big Bear for her daughter's birthday.
- [17:21]
Alexis Rivas
Yes. She had all these plans. She was telling people she wants to have this birthday party, and then she wants to file for divorce.
- [17:26]
Andrea Canning
And that trip to Big Bear obviously never happened because Maya disappeared. Jamie also read a letter to the jury that he wrote to Maya.
- [17:36]
Alexis Rivas
Yes. That was the part that I'd say was probably the visibly hardest part for Jamie to testify to. He struggled reading that letter. This is what. Maya got another job at a different office. So he sends this kind of goodbye letter. He calls her beautiful. He's also saying he wants to get this tattoo that she got on her wrist. Maya had gotten a tattoo of a bracelet Jamie got her.
- [17:56]
Andrea Canning
Jamie seemed to be very forthcoming in court with a lot of personal information.
- [18:01]
Alexis Rivas
Here's the thing that I think was kind of one of the bigger wow moments of his testimony. We had learned from Maya's friend. She said, yes, we had the affair, but we ended it, you know, months ago. Well, Jamie's testimony contradicted that. It didn't end months before Maya vanished. In fact, they were still seeing each other and talking to each other the week Maya vanished. Jamie testified two days before Maya vanished that Larry had called Jamie's wife and told her about the affair. So Jamie's telling Maya through messages, he's. He's essentially freaking out that his wife can't find out about this. They're trying to get their story straight. He says they agree basically to kind of give each other some space. He's going to focus on his baby. Maya's going to focus on a divorce. And then the day Maya's last seen alive, that afternoon, she. She's texting Jamie and saying, you know, I brought up divorce with my oldest child. It went. It went pretty well.
- [18:55]
Andrea Canning
The defense wanted to use Jamie as. As possibly what, like a red herring, you know, in this to create reasonable doubt or an alternate theory. But before the trial, the judge said that they couldn't suggest that anyone other than Larry could have been responsible for Maya's death. That is tough for the defense than to try to, you know, point to her lover as a possible suspect in this.
- [19:20]
Alexis Rivas
They couldn't even ask what his alibi was they couldn't, you know, even really go very far in terms of why he deleted so many messages between him and Maya or why he never replied to Maya the day that she vanished.
- [19:33]
Andrea Canning
The defense of course, was able to cross examine Jamie and they asked him about his behavior after Maya disappeared. They were still, you know, kind of trying to point the finger at him without crossing the line.
- [19:48]
Alexis Rivas
Yes. It's such a delicate balance. Right. But they had to show him his interview with police like a dozen times because he couldn't remember certain things. He changed his story so often. And the defense argued even the police were pretty aware of that. This man was lying to them a lot.
- [20:05]
Andrea Canning
Jamie's ex wife is also on the witness list. Do you think we will hear from her?
- [20:10]
Alexis Rivas
The prosecution promised the jury we would and you have to think that we will.
- [20:14]
Andrea Canning
So Jamie told friends that his wife, his now ex wife, would kill him if she found out about the affair. Now, you can take that literally or you can take it as people just say things like that, you know, she'll kill me. But you know, it was brought up in trial some of the last things
- [20:33]
Alexis Rivas
he said to Maya in general, he's freaking out. You can see Jamie unraveling. Larry calls his wife, his wife is crying on the couch. He was messaging Maya that basically his life is screwed up, his world is screwed up, he's screwed up, everything is ruined.
- [20:48]
Andrea Canning
What else can we expect to hear this week?
- [20:50]
Alexis Rivas
I think for the prosecution, they're wrapping up, it's week six. Now we know we need to hear from the ex wife and we probably just need to hear from a few more people in Maya's life. And then the big thing is what happened to her is still a mystery. Right? So I suspect some of that is still to come in this trial.
- [21:08]
Andrea Canning
Thank you so much for joining us this week, Alexis.
- [21:11]
Alexis Rivas
You bet.
- [21:13]
Andrea Canning
Up next, it's time for DATELINE Roundup. A major decision by the US Supreme Court in the murder case of six year old Eitan Pates. And we go back to the Crystal Rogers case in Bardstown, Kentucky where a former police officer appears in court. A perjury charge. Plus a special appearance from my friend Keith Morrison, who has a preview of his all new podcast, five Miles from Home.
- [21:43]
Keith Morrison
Insurance is not one size fits all. That's why drivers of trusted progressives name your price tool for years. Just tell Progressive what you want to pay and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Visit progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Summer's here and whether you're traveling or spending long days by the pool, staying healthy and on budget is always top of mind. That's where GoodRx can help. According to Goodrx, they can help you save up to 80% on prescriptions for you and your family, even your pets too. Just check GoodRx before every pharmacy run to find big savings on both brand name and generic medications. GoodRx is free and easy to use. Just search for your prescription on the website or the app, compare prices and get a free coupon to show your pharmacist. Use GoodRx to save at over 70,000 pharmacies nationwide. GoodRx is not insurance, but it works whether you have insurance or not and it could even beat your co. Pay price, save time and money at your pharmacy this summer. Go to goodrx.comdateline that's goodrx.com dateline when
- [23:05]
Andrea Canning
you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts and hard to find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place. So nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is DATELINE field producer Alex Leray. Alex, thanks for being here.
- [23:48]
Alex Leray
Thanks for having me.
- [23:49]
Andrea Canning
First up, we are headed to Bardstown, Kentucky for the latest in the case of Crystal Rogers. She is the mother of five who vanished back in 2015 over the 4th of July weekend. It has been more than a decade and Alex, there are still new developments happening it seems all the time.
- [24:06]
Alex Leray
Right? Andrea, as you know, this has been a long road to justice for Crystal's family. Crystal disappeared from her home almost 11 years ago. Her car was found on the side of the highway, but Crystal hasn't been seen since. Crystal's dad, Tommy Ballard, was murdered a year and a half later in a case that still hasn't been solved. In 2023, Crystal's former boyfriend, Brooks Hauk, was arrested for murder and in 2025, he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for killing Crystal. And then earlier this month, Brooks brother, former Bardstown police officer Nick Hauk, was charged with perjury.
- [24:40]
Andrea Canning
Remind us of the details surrounding Nick's perjury charge.
- [24:44]
Alex Leray
Sure so Crystal's family has always believed Brooks had help from his family in Crystal's disappearance. And at Brooks's trial, prosecutors continually called his brother Nick and their mother Rosemary, unindicted co conspirators. Now prosecutors say Nick made false statements under oath, though there hasn't been any confirmation from the police about what those statements were and how, if at all, they relate to Crystal's case.
- [25:08]
Andrea Canning
Alex? Last week Nick appeared in court for his arraignment and there were some bizarre moments, including Nick coming to court without his lawyer. Here's the judge talking to him about that.
- [25:19]
Keith Morrison
Mr. Hack, were you able to get a hold of your attorney?
- [25:22]
Mike Nardi
I did.
- [25:22]
Keith Morrison
He told me to go ahead and just proceed on without him.
- [25:25]
Mike Nardi
Proceed on without him.
- [25:27]
Alex Leray
So they did go on assigning him a public defender for the hearing. Here's Nick talking to the judge again, this time about the charges against him.
- [25:34]
Keith Morrison
I've been charged with perjury and I have no idea why you guys have charged me with that. First of all, I don't charge people with perjury. So I'm just saying the state police
- [25:41]
Andrea Canning
or whoever involved the public defender, Alex, entered a not guilty plea on Nick's behalf. What did the judge say about Nick's original attorney, the one who wasn't in court?
- [25:52]
Alex Leray
The judge said that he needed Nick's attorney to be present going forward and instructed him to retain an attorney by the next hearing on July 2.
- [25:59]
Andrea Canning
Crystal's mother, Sherry, she has been such a big part of this case every step of the way. Did she have any response to the arraignment?
- [26:07]
Alex Leray
Yes. So according to NBC affiliate WLEX 18, Sherri Ballard was present at the hearing. She said afterwards that she's been pushing for perjury charges and is hopeful that the truth will emerge about her daughter's death.
- [26:20]
Andrea Canning
Okay, we will keep you posted on that one. Next, we have an update out of Utah involving the case of murdered right wing activist Charlie Kirk. Charlie was shot and killed last September while speaking at a debate on the campus of Utah Valley University. The defense team for the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk is trying to get the death penalty taken off the table. Alex.
- [26:42]
Alex Leray
So 23 year old Tyler Robinson is charged with felony aggravated murder along with several other crimes connected to the murder. And prosecutors have made it clear that they aim to seek the death penalty if Robinson is convicted. He has yet to enter a plea, but at a hearing earlier this month, his defense team asked the judge to remove the possibility of the death penalty because of the statements the prosecution made to the media.
- [27:04]
Andrea Canning
What were those statements?
- [27:06]
Alex Leray
The comments centered around a preliminary ballistics report regarding whether or not bullet fragments from Kirk's body matched Robinson's rifle. The report was inconclusive, and one of the prosecutors on the case spoke to several media outlets about it. That prosecutor Christopher Ballard testified earlier this month that there was a lot of misinformation out there about the ballistic report and he was just responding to the media inquiries. But Robinson's defense says the comments violated a pretrial publicity order from the judge and that potential jurors might have been prejudiced as a result. They argue that the remedy is to take the death penalty off the table.
- [27:40]
Andrea Canning
That brings us to a pretrial hearing that happened on Monday. What did the judge have to say about the defense's death penalty request?
- [27:47]
Alex Leray
The judge delayed making a decision and said he's weighing holding the prosecution in contempt for the comments to the media. He delayed the contempt ruling until Friday, leaving the death penalty question up in the air.
- [28:00]
Andrea Canning
For our final story, we are going to the nation's capital where there's been a major Supreme Court ruling in the case of Eitan Pates, the sick year old boy who went missing from New York City in 1979.
- [28:12]
Alex Leray
Yeah, Eton Pates disappeared on his way to the bus stop on May 25, 1979. He was one of the first missing children to appear on milk curtains and the anniversary of his disappearance became National Missing Children's Day.
- [28:24]
Andrea Canning
So I actually covered this case that went unsolved for decades when there were new developments back in 2012, a man named Pedro Hernandez, who worked at a convenience store near Eitan's bus stop up, confessed to killing the boy.
- [28:39]
Alex Leray
Right. So after A mistrial in 2015, Hernandez was eventually convicted in 2017 and sentenced to 25 years to life. But Hernandez has said he was going through a period of mental illness when he confessed to the crime. And listeners might remember that last year, Hernandez's conviction was overturned by a federal appeals court after his defense argued that the judge in his trial gave a prejudicial answer to a question from jurors about his confession.
- [29:04]
Andrea Canning
The case made its way all the way to the U.S. supreme Court. The justices issued a ruling on the appeal on Monday. Alex, what's the news?
- [29:12]
Alex Leray
The Supreme Court essentially reversed the reversal. They said the federal appeals court exceeded its authority in overturning the conviction in state court. So Hernandez, who's now 64 years old, will not get a new trial and will continue to serve out his sentence in prison.
- [29:28]
Andrea Canning
Thank you for all these updates, Alex. Thanks.
- [29:29]
Alex Leray
No problem.
- [29:33]
Andrea Canning
For our final story this week, we are joined by a very special guest, Keith Morrison, to talk about his new podcast series, Five Miles from Home. It is about the disappearance of 16 year old Michaela Costanzo, a popular high school track star from a small desert town in Nevada. It has obsession, jealousy, high school drama and a riveting jailhouse interview. Keith, thank you for coming on to talk about your latest podcast.
- [29:59]
Keith Morrison
Thank you for having me on, Andrea.
- [30:01]
Andrea Canning
I am already hooked. I've listened to the first episode and then part of the second episode and it is, as always, all your podcasts are extremely riveting.
- [30:11]
Keith Morrison
Well, thank you.
- [30:12]
Andrea Canning
And this one Keith, you have been following since 2013 when Dateline first covered Mikayla's case, or Mickey, as everyone liked to call her. And that was in the TV episode Under the Desert Sky. What drew you back to this story all these years later?
- [30:27]
Keith Morrison
This story has always fascinated me and it's a dark story. It's Shakespearean. I kept thinking about Shakespeare tragedies as I was working on this story before, and it's what drew me back to do the podcast. It's a story where something happened and you're not sure exactly what for a long time and you're not sure who did what and you're not sure who is going to take the blame for what happened. It's one of those.
- [30:52]
Andrea Canning
And even the setting of it is interesting. You paint such a vivid picture of West Wendover, Nevada. It has five casinos. I had to look up the giant grinning cowboy because of the way you described it. It doesn't disappoint when you look at pictures. And then as you head toward the outskirts of town of Wendover, there's just desert for miles.
- [31:12]
Keith Morrison
Exactly. It's an outpost at the edge of Nevada. As casino towns go, it's pretty cool. I liked West Wendover and the people involved in this particular tale are just lovely people, you know, that made it both harder and more compelling to do.
- [31:27]
Andrea Canning
And you could just tell how much they loved Mickey.
- [31:30]
Keith Morrison
Sure.
- [31:31]
Andrea Canning
And how special she was. This was a girl who wanted to be a writer. She spent time tutoring and she was a runner.
- [31:39]
Keith Morrison
She did everything well and was pretty and was popular and the whole nine yards. But she had a friend who wasn't really a boyfriend. He was a buddy with whom she'd grown up in the same proximity, Cody and Mickey. For a minute or two when they were 12 or 13, they thought, well, we could be boyfriend and girlfriend. But of course that didn't last. And he went on to become a 6 foot 6 dude who planned to join the Marines when he got out of high school. And he fell in love, fell hard for a fellow high school student named Tony when they were in about grade 11, I guess. And by the end of grade 12, he was living with Tony Freddo and her family, and they were planning to get married. And that's when things happened.
- [32:27]
Andrea Canning
We're gonna touch on a little more of that. Not too much of a spoiler, because this is Dateline, but sadly, we learned pretty quickly in the podcast that Mickey has been murdered and buried in a shallow grave in the desert. Her sister Christina told you what it was like hearing the news from a detective that Mickey's body had been found. Let's take a listen to that. It's hard to hear. We have found a body.
- [32:51]
Alexis Rivas
So we called off the search because
- [32:53]
Andrea Canning
she's the only one in Elko county that's missing. And I guess out of hope, I says, well, can you see her? And he says, no, we can only see a small square inch of flesh. I says, well, then you don't know it's her. And he says, you're right, Christina, but she's the only one missing.
- [33:15]
Alexis Rivas
So we're pretty sure it's her.
- [33:18]
Andrea Canning
You go on this emotional journey, Keith, with the family. It starts out as every parent's worst nightmare. Sorry for the cliche, but it is where you have a high school student or, you know, a child, and suddenly they're not responding to calls or texts. No one has seen them. She was last in school.
- [33:35]
Keith Morrison
She was an unusual girl who would call to report where she was and what she was doing every 15 minutes. And she was always in touch with family. This is a very close family. And when she didn't phone, they knew after a matter of half an hour or an hour, something bad must have happened and the whole town was out because she was. She kind of became the, you know, the West Wendover sweetheart. And they were just determined, hoping they might find her alive, but suspecting they wouldn't. And sure enough, they didn't.
- [34:04]
Andrea Canning
Yeah, the why is really just hard to fathom because she's 16, she's a good girl. She's trying to make something of herself and someone would kill her at that age.
- [34:16]
Keith Morrison
I've been fascinated in a scary way by these stories over the years. The first one that I encountered was a story. It became a television program, ran on one of the streaming services a couple of years ago, but we did a piece on it years and years ago in Victoria British Columbia called Under the Bridge.
- [34:35]
Andrea Canning
I saw it. I saw the show, the drama, and
- [34:37]
Keith Morrison
it was a bunch of teenagers who, for reasons nobody could fathom, killed one of their classmates. It's the strangest thing. And I wondered whether this was one of those kind of incidents, but it was a little more than that. It was a little more Shakespearean. It was a little more the personal drama that the personal tragedies of these three people.
- [34:55]
Andrea Canning
Keith, the last episode of the podcast just came out and we wanna share a snippet of the finale. You sat down with Cody's then fiance, Tony Fratto. Let's take a listen. I was too much in fear. I was scared, terrified. Even if I tried to get away,
- [35:13]
Alexis Rivas
drove off, he would still come and
- [35:16]
Andrea Canning
find us and it would be 10 times worse.
- [35:20]
Keith Morrison
Why would he kill you?
- [35:21]
Andrea Canning
The only thing that I can even think that I would be next was
- [35:28]
Alexis Rivas
because I was a witness.
- [35:30]
Keith Morrison
That was one of the stranger interviews I've done in a long time.
- [35:34]
Andrea Canning
Yeah, you know, the bar is so high. I feel like, Keith, for these podcasts, they're all so good.
- [35:39]
Keith Morrison
This one had kind of bugged me for a long time. The compounding issue of what teenagers can sometimes do to each other for no apparent reason. It was an amazing story to me. Subtle in many ways, but it was just something I couldn't get out of my mind.
- [35:56]
Andrea Canning
Keith, thank you for being here. The series is called Five Miles from Home and all episodes are available to binge now wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate you, Keith.
- [36:07]
Keith Morrison
Appreciate you, Andrea, and thank you very much for this.
- [36:12]
Andrea Canning
That is it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. And coming up this Friday on Dateline, Lester has a special report on the devastating Texas floods that ripped through Camp mystic last summer, leaving a wake of death and destruction. Lester has interviews with victims, families and with survivors, including a camp counselor who saved everyone in her cabin. They had said to me, this is crazy. This is crazy. I don't know what to do. I remember thinking in my mind, you don't know what to do. I have 16 little girls behind me
- [36:50]
Alexis Rivas
and I'm just as afraid as they are.
- [36:52]
Andrea Canning
Watch after the flood Friday at 10, 9 Central on Dateline on NBC. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, Keani Reed and Rebecca Glaser. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Alison Orr. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.
- [37:23]
Alex Leray
Bye, everyone.
- [37:30]
Danny Savalos
Ever think a lyric says one thing
- [37:31]
Alexis Rivas
and it's actually something totally different?
- [37:34]
Andrea Canning
See, not everything is what it Sounds like, but hotels.com it's exactly what it sounds like.
- [37:39]
Danny Savalos
Go to hotels.com to choose from.
- [37:41]
Mike Nardi
Hundreds of thousands of hotels instantly get
- [37:43]
Danny Savalos
up to 20% off with member prices
- [37:45]
Andrea Canning
and earn rewards on every stay. Sign up for free and book today.
- [37:48]
Keith Morrison
Hotels.com it's all in the name.